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thank you [Music] [Music] welcome to True Crime garage wherever you are whatever you are doing thanks
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for listening I'm your host Nick and with me as always is a man that together we would like to point out whether you
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are a glass half empty or a glass half full person don't worry because here in the garage we offer free refills ladies
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and gentlemen the captain and we also offer free kicks to the nuts it's good to be seen and good to see you thanks
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for listening thanks for telling a friend [Music] trying to tame the Hellcat from brewdog
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Iron Maiden fans check it out more importantly brewdog fans check it out Hellcat is light crisp multi and hoppy
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with some notes of grapefruit peel garage great three and three quarter bottle caps out of five hollowed be thy
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name and cheers to our friends right here first up big cheers to Gareth and Olive in the zero crime Hound house a
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big shout out to Christy in Hartford Wisconsin and an even bigger shout out to Eric in Calistoga California an even
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bigger shout out than that Veronica in Hurst Texas and a much larger shout out than that one goes out
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to Tom in Lancaster United Kingdom and last but certainly not least the biggest of the shout outs to mirka listening in
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Minneapolis everyone we just mentioned well they were our friends this week because they filled up that old beer
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fridge and for that we thank you yeah you win beer run people always ask me what's the best way to support the show
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hey Captain what's the best way to support the show you shut in your mouth shut your damn go to the website buy
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something for yourself so you can look snazzy you support the show and get something in return
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and that is enough of the business all right everybody gather around grab a chair grab a beer let's talk some true
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crime [Music] yesterday we spoke of some of the things that did not take place early on in the
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investigation into missing college campus student Judy Martin's case today let's start off by talking about
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some of the things that was done in the early parts of the investigation were done however this is after she's been
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missing for seven days on May 31st a review of The Radio log and vehicle registrations run that night are made
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officers are spoken to who were working on the night in question nothing out of the ordinary is reported security
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officer Matt strope is spoken with he can't remember anything unusual from that night he did report that he is
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familiar with Ms Martin and that she is prone to travel in late night hours riding a light blue 10-speed bicycle
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strope also stated that she was supposedly dressed in hooker's attire again his words on numerous occasions
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and was seen with males associated with the drug culture the Lilac House Commons and Taylor Hill
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area were searched with negative results officers investigated the following they
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checked those radio logs Vehicle registrations and checked for student status at that time the student security
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Aid incident reports for May 23rd and 24th were all checked all vehicles passing the Midway and
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theater intersections were stopped on this day and questioned to see if they saw anything strange on the 23rd or the
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24th the Bike Room at Engelman Hall was checked for a blue male 10-speed bike the one that Judy would have owned
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never found Taylor Hall architecture students were monitored for anyone who may have been
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there on May 23rd 24th and they checked the roof of Dunbar the boiler room and all exterior entrances a ground search
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from Dunbar to Engelman was conducted at this time so we're seeing ground searches here captain we're seeing that
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they're searching the buildings they're checking anything that could be some kind of paper trail to either find and
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locate Judy or to find or locate someone that may have seen something or heard something or somebody that should be a
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suspect in this case they're coming up with nothing here well a couple things College these guys she's known to be
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seen with guys in the drug scene it's College the whole place is the drug scene where's this bike at why can't we
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find this bike the bike to me has always been a big question this was her you know code of Transportation while on
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campus the bike from my understanding has never been recovered in fact that was one of
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the questions that I asked law enforcement when we spoke with them has the bike ever been recovered and they
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said no but part of that though too they kind of said that the bike to them is not of great concern not 40 years later
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it would have been back then and they said yes it would have been nice to have located that bike but they wonder that
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with her missing we don't know where the last place she left the bike would be if
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it was under lock and key of course it would have been found but it could be simply somebody stole a
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bike or simply someone took the bike they should know where I think the reason why it's not of great importance
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to them all these years later is because of that night and the stories that they
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have from Witnesses some of them suspects some of them not but independent witnesses that say that
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she was not using the bike that night yeah but here's my problem when you say she had about
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a football field to two football field links to go back home that's enough to get on your bike
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but then once you put that individual on the bike then to me the radius in which you need
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to search is a lot further away because she has the capability of oh if I'm if she wanted to go a couple miles down the
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street to a bar or something she obviously has the means to do so detectives in law enforcement will spend
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the following day conducting more of their investigation and part of the day starts off with them calling everyone in
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Judy's address book no new information was gathered from those calls now detectives physically searched wooded
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areas that surrounded the university a dozen security AIDS assisted in the search so they have multiple detectives
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along with at least according to the statement a dozen security aides that are helping with this search from my
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understanding from what I've been told Captain is that the grounds the campus looks much different today than it did
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back then and from my understanding is that you could walk 20 yards in one direction from some of these dorm
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buildings and be entering the woods or be right in the middle of a wooded area and a lot more lights now they also
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searched Dunbar Prentice and Engelman Hall and all the wooded areas that surrounded the health center and across
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from Manchester Hall I guess there's a coal dump area off of Roads Road r h o d e s road that was searched as well on
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that day but like you stated uh Judy she went to the all boys dorm room and there was at least
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five individuals that we know spoke with her so where are we at on questioning them you're right Captain because now's
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the point where you've spoke with them at least once or twice before now you need to follow up on those interviews
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because maybe someone hasn't been truthful or maybe somebody remembered something of importance from that night
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so they speak with John beckony again and this time he says that Judy came back to his room later that night at
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some point that night and she retrieved portions of her outfit that she was wearing that night the glasses the wig
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and I believe the trench coat but the the statement there it's hard to read so it's it's tough for me to translate what
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what that other word is but at least his statement says that she came back to his
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dorm retrieved the glasses and the wig and she put them back on and then left this is interesting here because this
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actually contradicts his statement that he gave to them before remember he says the slight variation being that he with
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a friend left to go to 7-Eleven and that he gave these items to her before they left before he and the friend left we
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also have Jim kratchik who is interviewed again and in this interview he's basically saying all the same stuff
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he does say that uh he signs a voluntary consent to have his car and his room searched and they do follow up on this
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and they say that no signs of violence or any evidence was found in either of his vehicle or his room at this time he
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does agree to take a polygraph now we've mentioned polygraph several times already in this investigation and
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throughout our story and what I want to point out here is there are a lot of people that do end up taking polygraphs
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what we are seeing in the initial portion of this investigation Captain is people agreeing to a polygraph so when
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we say that someone agreed to a polygraph that doesn't mean that they were immediately sat down and
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administered the test right then and there or even that same day right here's where we come to another interesting and
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kind of strange portion or event in our timeline this is on June 2nd 1978 so she's been missing for over a
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week at this point and the report that police get is that Judy allegedly was reported to be at a garage
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sale and while she's at the garage sale hey little little bit of self-promotion here
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we're always having a garage sale at truecrime garage.com click on the store Page Judy is allegedly at this garage
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sale she's speaking with the homeowners that are conducting the sale and she tells them that she was thinking about
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going to South America or to Mexico and also mentions hitchhiking maybe that's going to be her method of getting to
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South America or Mexico and she was purchasing some garments some clothing items for this trip or at least the
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people holding the garage sale believed that's why she was purchasing these items again just like the other
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eyewitness that thought he saw her get into a vehicle these individuals didn't know Judy personally that's correct they
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only know of her because of the missing person's case and the Flyers and the News That's in the newspapers later that
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same day a man named Jeff reported to police that he picked up a girl that he saw walking on May 31st she was out
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hitchhiking Jeff says he does not know this girl's name but he picked her up offered her a ride and states that he
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took her to Taco Fiesta sounds like a restaurant and Main Street and she stated during the course of this
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car ride that she was going to get some shots so that she could go to Mexico or South
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America this is interesting because it's kind of it's in line with the garage sale story but again we don't know that
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it means that it's actually Judy or not but now we have the garage sale people and this Jeff guy coming forward
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independently of one another both saying that they believe they may have spoke to
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and seen Judy after she supposedly had disappeared but let's go back to her on-again off-again boyfriend Jim young
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Jim Young on this day captain on June 2nd he is interviewed at Avon Lake Police Department and they do they taped
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the interview from this interview they learn more about Mr Jim young and during the interview he does consent to
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searches of his car and his apartment which were later conducted and they report negative results meaning they
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found nothing of evidentiary value in either search but during in this interview Captain Jim young tells the
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police because he's asked during this interview do you own any firearms and he says yes I own several Firearms but
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apparently shortly before Judy's disappearance he shot out the window of his apartment
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like accidentally fired the gun or the gun went off and it shot out his window he'll shoot
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your eye out kid now he tells them I own several firearms and you the police should know that because
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after I accidentally shot out my window you confiscated all of my guns because I
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have a pending trial for this incident so all of his guns were in police custody at the time that Judy went
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missing he also states that he does not have any knowledge of Judy using any hard drugs young also states that Judy
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told him that she was seeing someone at Kent State who was in ROTC and that he was a nice guy but did not know the name
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of this individual one thing that I find interesting here too Captain is that Jim
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young also states to police and detectives that he wouldn't think that Judy would run
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away that she would take off on her own he said yeah she was impulsive at times and she would like to do you know fun or
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wild things at times he goes but she is spontaneous that was not her personality
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is what he was saying that that he that she wouldn't just take off and I find that interesting because he is very much
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considered a suspect at that time and for him to state that it's almost eliminating an out that he
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might have if he in fact did do something bad if he is responsible in any way for her disappearance well same
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with the hard drugs but a key thing here we've talked about polygraph tests and please don't throw tomatoes or eggs at
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me we we all have the same suspicions of these tests but it should be noted when
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we are going to talk about these that Jim young took a polygraph test and he actually took his polygraph test
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at BCI yeah so at the BCI office there's if you want to set a bar High it would be tough to set it any higher than that
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for portions of Ohio well I think one of the main reasons why I mean you don't like him as a as the number one suspect
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would be the distance away yeah he may not have an alibi for that night he says that he was home it was it was the
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middle of the week he said he was home doing normal stuff he had to work that day work the next morning he said I
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don't really have anybody that can verify that I was at home because I was at home by myself but according to BCI
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he passes the polygraph test and as you just pointed out Captain he's at minimum
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and hours drive away where we have several individuals by their own admissions that they were there with her
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that night close to the time that she magically disappears so it's just another obstacle
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that gets in the way to make him a suspect of any priority over these others so normally I would like the
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boyfriend or the ex-lover to be looked at pretty hard but I think in this case the
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distance and also I like the fact that he is the one that points out look she's not somebody to run away
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to me if you want to if you're guilty you're gonna go you're gonna throw out the kitchen sink well she could have ran
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away with this other guy she could she always wanted to live in Chicago you know just make up a bunch of random
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stories to get the cops looking all over the place and he's very Cooperative with
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the investigation it seems to me I get the impression that this is a guy that did care for her at one time probably
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still cared for her and he's just trying to help I think he's the closest to being ruled out
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but obviously they're not rolling out individuals in this the case are you ready for some more strange
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yeah this in the timeline for some strange yeah to me this is one of the more bizarre points in the or events in
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the timeline on June 2nd detective Ross Jamerson of the this this is weird because now we're going to see a whole
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different agency we've talked about Avon Lake Police Department the Kent State Police Department
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this when you have this kind of case going on this is receiving some media attention
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and what it looks like to me reviewing the file here Captain is that we have people that want to help
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that they see something or hear something they want to pass along the information to the proper channels
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they just don't know who to report it to so now we're going to see a third agency
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get involved and this is detective Jamerson of the Portage County Sheriff's Office who calls to advise that Daryl
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Dunlop their dispatcher at the Sheriff's Office received a call from w-h-l-o Radio that's a radio station
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that's still around today from my understanding advising that they received an anonymous call from a male
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caller who stated that Judy Martins could be located buried under a stack of pine branches a quarter of a mile from a
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burned down cabin at Pippin Lake this would be in Towners Woods Park area in Brady lake off of Ravina Road
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detective Jamerson also stated that an individual named Jack gray has been hanging around campus and the courthouse
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in Ravina talking about Towners woods and that this Jack gray said that he had done something bad in towner's woods so
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the sheriff's office is calling to report two things these are I don't want them to get mixed together these are two
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different things there's an anonymous caller they called into a radio station claiming to know where Judy was buried
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and also there's this weirdo guy who's hanging around the campus or in the courthouse and he's saying that he had
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done something bad in towner's woods so this is just this detective doing his due diligence pointing out like this
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Anonymous call came in we're not saying it's from this Jack gray we're simply saying that we also have an individual
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that said he did something bad in towner's woods which is a similar you know generally it's the same location as
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where this Anonymous caller is saying you would find the body of our missing individual well with technology and some
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a little bit of police work maybe they're able to identify this Anonymous caller well in what was great too
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Captain was the DJ that took the call the anonymous call did try to pry some information from the caller he said hey
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hey what's your 20. hey we're playing rock and roll all night wnbc wnbc so they interviewed the DJ and they talk
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with anybody that they can talk to at the radio station his name was rock and roll Ralph and they said that the
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anonymous caller while they didn't give their name or refused to give their name
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did provide an address now of course the caller could just be throwing out somebody else's address
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but they tracked down the address to an individual that they kind of knew or that one of the police agencies somewhat
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knew to a John Edmonds now his name is actually reported differently in a couple different spots some places he's
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John Edwards but the majority of the time is John Edmonds I think that's just a typo that it was in fact John Edmonds
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Police kind of knew who this guy was and I think it's because he's he's out there
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man and so the detectives learn they go to this address the the address that was
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given belongs to this John Edmonds and he claims to have psychic powers possible you never know now you never
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know uh the other description that they get from the DJ was that the caller was described as sounding fairly old and
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maybe having respiratory problems they don't ever State anything about John Edmonds having respiratory problems
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or if he sounded to be old but he was not an old individual at the time of them going and speaking with him he
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agrees to take them to a location in towner's woods what I'm getting at here Captain is while the caller could have
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just given some fictitious address it sounds to me like when you go to the address and the guy's like yeah I have
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psychic powers and yes I'll go to that spot with you in the woods that sounds to me like confirmation that he was the
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caller they go to this spot in towner's woods and of course they don't locate Judy
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Martin's buried anywhere at that point but this John Edmonds to his credit seems to be cooperative
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you know regardless of his his situation that same day Nancy Martens remember this is Judy's younger sister
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she calls the police department and she says that she went and spoke with the couple that was hosting the garage sale
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and had a long conversation with them and they talked about the girl that could be her sister being at the garage
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sale and this girl wanted to go to Mexico or South America now Nancy said after having this long conversation with
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those two individuals she believed that they were in fact trying to help and that they probably did see and have the
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conversation that they said they had but things that they stated about the person
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that they spoke with at the garage sale she's telling police like this wasn't my
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sister it may have looked like her she may have been about the same age but there were things that they were
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telling me about this person that do not line up with my sister some good news in
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this investigation they are able to locate the individual that they believe was at that garage sale the mystery
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garage sale customer yes on June 5th detective Brandon located a female named Lori gumbinder she is the subject seen
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at the garage sale by the Snyders they were the ones hosting and the girl this was also confirmed that Jeff remember he
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gave somebody a ride a hitchhiker a ride when shown a picture of this Lorry individual he agrees yes that's yes Not
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only was she the one at the garage sale but she's also the girl that I picked up
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the young lady that I picked up right so she was located and spoken with and this
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was some good detective work because what he did was he went to a location where you would go to get your photo
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taken for for a passport so he goes there with pictures of Judy Martin saying hey have you seen anybody that
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looks like her or her that came in here to get a passport so that they could go to Mexico or South America that's how he
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ends up tracking down this individual so Nancy Martins the younger sister her suspicions were confirmed that it was
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not her sister at the garage sale that day [Music] [Music] to the windows to the walls cheers
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everybody cheers to you colonel so much more more twists to get into on the Judy Martin's case the case just
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keeps getting stranger and stranger as we go along here but nice to get some answers along the way oh let me throw
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out something for you and one of the things that was interesting in this case was you know
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she went missing in 78 this is around the time the world would know a certain individual or come to know a certain of
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individual Ted Bundy and a lot of people when she first went missing started there was rumors flying around because
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here's this guy that he went to college uh he would have been traveling all over
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the country possibly and is it possible because she looks so much like his typical victim but one of the things
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that you pointed out because you're the goat is most if not all if not all victims of Ted
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Bundy were found and if it's your lunch break or breakfast Time cover your ears people
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because that his victims were found simply because he didn't bury them he didn't
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bury them because he would return and do things with the body have sex with it that's right and so
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that all kind of makes sense and that's why I feel like we can't really Place him in this area at that time of the
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night in question and there was one individual that again we don't know we'd have to see hardcore evidence of
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this but one individual at least that states that Bundy was probably locked up or was in fact locked up at that time
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which seems accurate to me he did have some ties to Pennsylvania so it wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility that
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he could be in the area or passing through the area and of course a lot of his victims were in fact college aged
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students yeah and he would have been serving time and 78 and um serving time in Florida oh
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this was after the Florida so this would have been yeah so he it's not Bundy then
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we can sounds like we can put a a bow on that one yeah put a bow on Bundy and also ban the tan sedan and I think too
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here Captain Bundy makes an interesting leap to another serial killer who has been thought of or actually two other
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serial killers who have been considered as suspects or Persons of Interest in this case the first being a William John
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Posey Jr he's of significant interest to me and to this case because he is a serial
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killer known identified serial killer of two women or some say at least two women
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and he was also known to be living in the Kent area at this time all right that's interesting back in 78 in fact in
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one article he lived a 10-minute drive from the college campus and was found hiding in the bedroom
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closet of a woman who he did not know or who did not know him creeper in Kent and
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this is according to assistant chief of police John Peach so a couple issues with this individual
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one same as Bundy as we don't even know yes he had an apartment not that far blocks away from campus
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but that doesn't mean he was in the area at the time and there are some reports not confirmed but that there's some
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reports that he was actually in jail that night in Columbus Ohio yeah so the the statement is that he was locked up
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at least in the afternoon or evening hours of May 24th 1978. I don't know when he went into lock up
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or into the jail but they have confirmation that he was in jail at that time so that would be an issue for him
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to get rid of this body if he was involved in The Disappearance that took place in the early morning hours of May
00:30:26
24th the other thing with Posey that I found very interesting he's in Columbus getting rid of the body
00:30:34
that's true good point uh one thing that I find interesting about Posey though and this is coming from law enforcement
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they firmly believe and of course nothing's 100 percent until this case is solved
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but they firmly believe that had Posey killed Judy Martins that he would have told them so he confessed the two
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murders that he committed he confessed to both of them and in one case he tried to lead them to the body that's never
00:31:05
been recovered and I think that's another suspicion that people on the outside had that go well not only did he
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kill two college-aged females but one in one case the body was never recovered and that's what we have here in Judy's
00:31:19
case so that's the similarities but for me I think that's where the similarities
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end because one of the murders Captain he was suspected of and actually convicted of
00:31:30
the kidnapping of this young woman never convicted of having killed her it was him it was Posey who went out of his way
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when he was diagnosed to be terminally ill he reached out to law enforcement and
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said by the way I did Kill this young woman and this is how I did it this is where I
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did it this is why I did it and I will lead you to her body and those officials have stated outwardly
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that this man yes he was a murderer he's a horrible individual but he was trying
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to get right with God before he died he wanted to confess to everything that he had done he wanted to try to wipe the
00:32:17
Slate clean if you will yeah and you know me I don't like to trust guys that use fake names but what was the fake
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name he used I knew you were going to put me on the spot and try to make me pronounce you say it and not me it looks
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like if I were to spell this it almost looks like scorpion but it looks like he was using the name
00:32:37
John T scorpini or scorpani scorpini yeah but uh it looks like a torpini because he had a little weenie it looks
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to me almost like the word scorpion with a with a few extra vowels in it yeah here's where things get a little more
00:32:55
crazy if they weren't crazy enough for you yet if you're if your head's not spinning like a top then there's
00:33:01
something you have your own issues here's the problem with this case is when you first hear you go okay well
00:33:09
there's not a lot of evidence and there's not but the speculation and the twists and turns around what we
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don't know there's a lot there there's certainly a lot and to pile it on more we have this
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really great article that ran about the case in August of 1983 and anybody that that's able to locate this or want some
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more information on this case this would be the first place that I direct them to
00:33:38
it's an August 7th article in the plain dealer of 1983 and it was a magazine you
00:33:46
know that's a newspaper but they also had a Weekly Magazine or monthly magazine they ran a story that's simply
00:33:52
titled where is Judy Martins and it's a really good informative article on the case and you have officers reflecting on
00:34:03
the case five years after she's been missing and telling you what they did right and what they did wrong
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and this article really drums up a lot of information and a lot of excitement from the General
00:34:18
Public and it really causes a lot of people to start coming forward in fact there was
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one detective that later said that this article in this magazine brought a lot of people out of the
00:34:32
woodwork that they started to get some more information on the case and maybe a lot of it was bad information but what
00:34:39
this directly leads to Captain is within a very short period of time the Avon Lake Police Department receives a phone
00:34:49
call stating that this is from an individual that works in law enforcement in States you know on this night very
00:34:59
recently we had someone a woman that was brought in for prostitution charges being held here in our jail and that it
00:35:07
was Judy Martin's I'm telling you that's who we saw now this is five years after the fact
00:35:14
the law enforcement agency basically says look it does resemble her it could be her
00:35:21
although it looks like you know not only has she aged five years but maybe drugs
00:35:26
and a hard life have aged her considerably in that five-year time period there's so
00:35:32
much weight given to this that Judy Martins must have dropped out of school headed out of town and became a street
00:35:40
walker in Cleveland did they start writing an article there's an individual that wrote a lengthy article about this
00:35:47
situation and States all the similarities between the two well the first one we should
00:35:52
point out is that when this female was booked at the jail she gives the name Judy Martinez right that's not a not a
00:36:03
far jump from Judy Martins that's one number two she looks almost identical to Judy Martins yes add
00:36:12
add in the drugs and the hard life right right but they're practically the same height
00:36:18
they look very similar and this article that I read even states that they had the same birthmark I mean it goes on and
00:36:27
on it just rattles off a whole bunch of what's what people need to know is that Judy at the time that she went missing
00:36:34
they didn't have her fingerprints on file so they couldn't even test for finger fingerprints at that time and they would
00:36:44
they were under the belief that this individual this Judy Martinez would not tell them would not be honest
00:36:52
if she was in fact Judy Martins so they get Judy Martin's Family involved in this her mom or dad or brother or sister
00:36:59
this is where it gets even more wild they go down there and they meet this individual and you say more wild but
00:37:06
I've actually seen red heard multiple versions of this story and this portion of the story anyway
00:37:16
and some of those versions say that Judy's mother believed it was Judy other other versions of the story state
00:37:23
that the family knew almost instantaneously that it was not her that they as much as they wanted it to be her
00:37:30
it was not and they even felt that this this reporter that wrote several articles or
00:37:39
at least one lengthy article about this situation that he may have embellished a little bit on the
00:37:46
similarities between Judy Martinez and Judy Martins and made it sound you know like it was
00:37:54
in fact the same person before delivering at the end that it was not right now based off of they based this
00:38:00
off of dental records that Judy Martins had her four wisdom teeth removed and this individual still had her four
00:38:07
wisdom teeth and of course somebody then reports a week or so later that on very very very
00:38:15
rare occasions someone can have these teeth removed and they can grow back I don't know if that's yeah I don't know
00:38:22
if that's real or not I've been told that that's a real thing but I'm not a dentist I don't play one on TV and I'm
00:38:27
not gonna pretend to know about the rumor is can grow back yeah but the rumor is your anti-dentite my my
00:38:34
wisdom teeth have not grown back I can I can only report what I know it makes a lot of sense now well you also heard
00:38:42
that they did a handwriting sample yes and do you know what the outcome of that was I've seen I've seen that it
00:38:51
matched 95 percent and that's great and now now hold on just I want I want people to understand
00:39:01
see have this sink in a little bit for the most part I don't buy the whole polygraph thing take it or leave it I
00:39:09
think it's a it's a it's a barometer if they don't want to take the test it's a barometer of where they're at and that's
00:39:16
why I believe that we should administer the test it shouldn't be allowed in the court no no no no no but this joke of a
00:39:24
science should never be allowed in anything and you have family members that are saying nope that is not Judy we
00:39:34
we have dental records that say nope that's not Judy but then 95 matching to to handwriting samples that this is
00:39:43
her so and and I bring this up because when people talk about the handwriting samples and the JonBenet Ramsey case
00:39:52
just knock it off this is junk science rant over right and I can't agree with you any
00:40:01
more there Captain there's uh there's no reason to believe other than you could hug me some suspicions that this person
00:40:07
was Judy Martins in fact the original name she gives when she's arrested is uh Sandra Lopez
00:40:15
and then later says that she's Judy Martinez I my guess here is look she's booked and she's going to be charged
00:40:22
with criminal activity yeah and she's probably willing to play along in some way or form she's street smart right
00:40:29
she's going to see if hey if I play along with some of this will it help me out of my current predicament yeah and
00:40:35
but one time she was arrested she said I'm George Lopez the next day she says I'm Mario Lopez well in in the end she
00:40:43
denies being Judy Martins her family Judy Martin's Family says this is not her again there's a story
00:40:51
where Dolores believed that it was right her daughter and Arthur did not believe and
00:40:57
nobody else in the family believed again I think that portion of the story might
00:41:02
be embellished or it's just it's just a broken-hearted woman saying or wanting to try to believe that maybe there's a
00:41:09
chance that this is my little girl that I've been missing and lost for five years in fact Dolores Martins goes out
00:41:16
of her way to tell the newspapers that poor young woman that I met there that day was not my daughter but I'm here to
00:41:22
tell you there was a good Soul there was a good child inside of that woman and I
00:41:27
feel bad for her and I wish her nothing but the best and I'm hoping that things can turn around for her so which is
00:41:34
surprising though because didn't she say some mean things to the family she said
00:41:38
you know at some point Judy Martins is better off dead well that's coming from somebody that's in a position that she's
00:41:49
in well she's probably a drug addict and yeah yeah it's it's just another sad portion of this story where it's it's a
00:41:57
person that's lived a hard life and probably been dealt a a bad deal yeah well and you feel so bad look I I used
00:42:05
to say people have the right to make the decision of whatever they want and it's
00:42:08
not my place to tell people whether or not they're doing drugs but then you start realizing
00:42:13
some of them had no choice some of them got in a situation where it wasn't just as simple as hey I went out to party one
00:42:21
day and then things got out of hand some of these people legitimately get into this situation and I just feel bad for
00:42:29
these individuals because it you know part of it is a is a the addiction is a sickness and
00:42:35
they probably want to be dead so they don't have to deal with the addiction but it's just sad either way well it's a
00:42:42
downward spiral that they really have no control over even if they want out and to get clean and do the right thing they
00:42:48
they really don't have in some cases as sad as it may sound don't have a choice in the matter at some point
00:42:56
at the end of the day here Captain what we have here is a case that is over 40 years old nobody believes no law
00:43:05
enforcement agency believes it might sound good on the Internet or on somebody else's podcast
00:43:12
but nobody working the case then Nor today believe that Judy Martens is alive and that she left on her own and started
00:43:22
a new life somewhere I've been told and I think the evidence points to this and you brought up
00:43:29
something very interesting off Mike when we were discussing this case and we'll get to that in just a second but whoever
00:43:35
is responsible for her going missing their name is in this file their name is in that timeline of that
00:43:41
night in the early morning hours of the 23rd and the 24th this was not committed
00:43:46
by Ted bunny this was not committed by William Posey this was not committed by Sam little his name gets mentioned in
00:43:55
this case too a serial killer that was known to drive through Ohio and may have uh several Ohio victims well I think one
00:44:03
of the things for him was he would do drawings of his victims and sometimes try to put the date of when they went
00:44:10
missing or roughly the time he the the tough thing about this though is he'll he'll actually write 1986 or 1976.
00:44:21
so sometimes his dates are wildly they've wildly varied but there is a couple women that could possibly match
00:44:32
her from that area but I don't know if they match up in as as far as timeline goes and there were some other missing
00:44:41
persons cases that Judy Martin's case gets mentioned in the same paragraph with from time to
00:44:49
time over the years and that's Yvonne regler who was 17 and went missing from that same area not a college student she
00:44:58
was working at a gas station by herself and it looks to me like somebody abducted her at the gas station there
00:45:06
was a Kathy Morrow age 22. Yvonne regler and Judy Martins are still missing to this day I could not find and
00:45:15
I spent a good deal of time on this and it was a fruitless search here Captain I
00:45:20
could not find any update on Kathy Morrow's case whether she was ever located found dead or or murdered or you
00:45:28
know any of those bad news things I couldn't locate anything on her I have suspicions that she was probably
00:45:36
found because Yvonne and Judy are both still listed on the Charlie projects website and other places where
00:45:45
Kathy Morrow is no longer listed or was never entered on those databases and I find the the Charlie project website
00:45:54
to be incredibly accurate one of the more accurate if not the most accurate one out there when it comes to
00:46:00
Nationwide missing persons and if you're into missing person cases as much as I am please take the time even just as
00:46:10
much of a as a Starbucks cup of coffee five dollars because a long way to supporting them and their research and
00:46:18
all the time that they spend it's well worth it because if you've listened to podcasts throughout the years you've
00:46:25
probably listened to hundreds of cases and they all pretty much reference the Charlie project you're exactly right
00:46:33
Captain there are many podcasters mini internet sleuths and uh YouTubers that use this Charlie project website and
00:46:42
it's charlieproject.org for those that are not familiar it's uh Charlie with a Y go
00:46:48
and take a little look-see on on that website Megan Good runs the website and is doing very very good work as I like
00:46:55
to say and I hope those other podcasters and YouTubers are regular donors to her
00:47:01
and to the Charlie project because I hope and pray that that never goes away but again Captain this case sadly we're
00:47:10
looking for a body here and another sad aspect of this law enforcement has basically said you know if we would have
00:47:18
had a body early on this investigation would have went completely different and they believe that the person or persons
00:47:26
responsible would already be in custody that this would be a an easy case for them to to execute uh even with the
00:47:37
blunders and the delay of Kent State but Avon Lake did good work on this the Portage County Sheriff's Office did good
00:47:47
work on this the U.S Marshals were brought in on this case and those guys and girls are no slouches at all in fact
00:47:56
they were brought in because of the Posey portion of this case because he was actually apprehended in Texas and
00:48:03
the two women that he killed were not from Ohio he he lived in other states throughout different portions of his
00:48:10
life in fact I believe one was in Vermont a girl that he knew a woman that he knew in Vermont and one was a woman
00:48:17
in Illinois so they're brought in once we have somebody who's already in custody and we have cases that are going
00:48:25
from state to state to state and so in this case here we are really looking for a body or looking for any of
00:48:33
those missing items that were never located the wig the imitation leather purse any of those garments that she may have
00:48:40
been wearing that night or any any form of identification or anything that she would have had with her that night that
00:48:48
is what they are currently looking for and circling back to one of the most powerful things in this case and it's
00:48:58
something that you said to me before we hit record when we were just chilling in the garage and kind of
00:49:03
spitballing about the case you said to me I said do you want a hit of this doobie you said at any point
00:49:12
and your research could you find could you find someone saying that Judy Martins told them that she was
00:49:22
returning to her room after hanging out with different people that night now there's one portion in the timeline
00:49:28
where she does tell a friend at her dorm building that she might return to her friend's dorm after going over to visit
00:49:37
with some of the fellas over at the male dormitory but at no point out of all of these guys
00:49:46
that saw her toward the end of the night and leading up to her disappearance and
00:49:51
none of their statements does any of them say that she said that she was returning to her dorm now a lot of
00:49:57
people would go well doesn't that call into question the idea that maybe she was taking off or maybe she went
00:50:03
elsewhere and could have been abducted elsewhere of course it does but here's what I want to point out Judy
00:50:09
Martin's probably did not have the opportunity to say that to anyone because this was probably not a planned
00:50:18
murder something happened in the course of a conversation or activities that night
00:50:24
that led to some kind of struggle she didn't have the opportunity to say that she was going home that night because
00:50:32
somebody stopped her from going home that night and I think we talk about this from time to time
00:50:39
here in the garage unfortunately in some cases the perpetrator or perpetrators get lucky
00:50:46
and here we might have that situation Captain where all of the students leaving campus and the holiday break
00:50:54
coming up and Kent State not jumping in right away on this may have helped the perpetrator
00:51:01
or perpetrators get rid of this body and conceal this body and it's not been found and they
00:51:09
got rid of evidence they cleaned things up they got their stories together yeah to me it's very simple she was we have
00:51:16
no eyewitness that saw her after she was in the all-male dorm room and I just as much as the next guy or
00:51:24
girl love a good story right I love a good mystery it's very intriguing to hear that oh there was this mysterious
00:51:31
person that was arrested for charges in Cleveland and she looked just like Judy Martins and had the same birth date and
00:51:37
birthmark and this that and the other thing there's this mysterious Shopper at a garage sale who looked just like Judy
00:51:44
and said that she was going to South America that stuff is very intriguing it wasn't
00:51:49
her at that garage sale it wasn't her who was picked up in Cleveland sometimes a cigar is just a smoke and sometimes
00:51:58
the the answer is obvious and it's right there in front of you and here that's exactly what we have with this case
00:52:05
those people those individuals that by their own admissions said that they were the last ones to see her that night one
00:52:12
of them or some of them are responsible for this and one of them may have done it all by themselves I have a firm
00:52:19
belief and a very strong suspicion and plenty of reason and plenty of reasons why to believe that even if one
00:52:28
individual took this young woman's life that they probably had some help in getting rid of her body
00:52:38
[Music] as always thanks for listening tell your friends tell your brother tell your
00:52:51
mother how about some recommended reading Captain yes sir this is a must read you
00:52:57
know there are such weird coincidences at times in our lives here I was a few weeks ago discussing some case with
00:53:04
someone they're telling me all about this case that I'd never heard of before the case involved twin brothers one of
00:53:10
them was killed it was originally ruled a suicide and there's a police cover-up and a pack of teenagers this is a case
00:53:17
out of Columbia Maryland in the 90s and as this person was telling me more and more about the case I kept saying wow
00:53:25
this is such an interesting case why have I not heard of this case before so then just a couple of days later I find
00:53:32
this book called losing John a teen's tragic death a police cover-up and a community's fight for Justice by David
00:53:40
Parish it's a book on that case so this book kind of found me I didn't go looking for
00:53:46
it and I would not have known about this case if I hadn't been talking to the person so I love those interesting
00:53:52
little coincidences so do yourself a favor and check out losing John by David Parrish you'll be reading through this
00:53:58
almost two unbelievable to be true true crime books and you'll ask yourself the same thing why have I not heard of this
00:54:06
case before oh and another weird thing here captain in the story Christina Gutierrez the lawyer who defended Adnan
00:54:14
Syed was the attorney for one of the major players in this story again that's losing John a teen's tragic death a
00:54:23
police cover-up and a community's fight for Justice by David Parish and you don't have to write that title down
00:54:28
right now because you will find it on our recommended page at truecrime garage.com and until next week be good
00:54:36
be kind and don't litter foreign [Music] [Applause]