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business all right everybody gather round grab a chair grab a few beers let's talk some true-crime basically we
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have identified the bodies of the two females that were found out yesterday or yes yesterday the bodies are of have
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been positive identified as Abigail Jay Williams 13 of the Delphi area and Liberty Rose Lynn German 14 of the
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Delphi area the two girls were reported missing on Monday February 13th the bodies were discovered about 12:15 on
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the 14th in the woods just east of town here by volunteers that helped in the search of the children after they were
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reported missing to the Carroll County Sheriff's Department family has been notified
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this is considered a double homicide investigation no further information will be released at this time
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we have we have nobody in custody at this time so as far as I'm concerned yes there is somebody out there that did
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this for in this crime and we're gonna track them down it is disturbing it is concerning as sheriff in my position and
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you know I want to I guess assure the community is trooper Riley indicated we're going into the bottom of this we
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feel confident and you know we're gonna we're going to do everything we can within our resources to reach justice in
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this situation this is Delphi Indiana and our case starts on the afternoon of February 13 2017 at about 140 in the
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afternoon 13-year old Abby Williams and 14 year old Libby German were dropped off by Libby's older sister Kelsey the
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drop-off location is at a trailhead on County Road 300 North this is near the scenic moanin High Bridge which is an
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abandoned railroad bridge that goes over Deer Creek in Carroll County Indiana okay I'm going to try to get as detailed
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on this portion of our timeline as I can so before the girls left to go to the bridge and the trails Libby asked her
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older sister Kelsey several times if she could drive them out there to which Kelsey said no several times before
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basically giving in and saying yes now Liberty had already secured permission from her grandmother Becky to go to the
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bridge the idea was Becky said yes you and Abby can go to the bridge if you can get a
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ride there and if you can get a ride back so the plan was for Kelsey to drop the two girls off and then around 3:30
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p.m. Libby's father Derek would pick both of them up this three thirty marker is just a general
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time as Derek said he would call Libby when he was close to the pickup location so Kelsey drops off the girls and then
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calls her boyfriend to tell him that she is in route to go hang out with him Kelsey was going to go hang out with him
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and then go off to work while walking on the trail Libby posts a photo to snapchat this is the now-famous 207 p.m.
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snapchat photo showing a be crossing the moanin High Bridge at 3:11 p.m. Derek calls Libby's phone Libby does not
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answer at 3:13 Derek makes another call Derek says both of these calls go to voicemail but after ringing so Libby's
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phone rings and then the calls go to voicemail eventually and I've seen it reported
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this might have been as early as 3:30 p.m. calls to Libby's phone start going directly to voicemail when the second
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call goes to voicemail Derek parks the car so now he is parked in a location where he can pick up the
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girls this is the same general location where the two girls were originally dropped off Derek claims that once he
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parts the car he gets out of his car immediately yeah he parked at the trailhead and he walks the trail within
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minutes of parking the vehicle and starting off on the trail on foot he comes to an intersecting path
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he says it's here where he sees as he has described an older man with a plaid or flannel shirt on he asked this man if
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he has seen two girls to which the man responds no but I saw a couple on the bridge these trails out there are
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numbered the intersecting trails are the 501 trail in the 505 trail yeah Derek is
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going to walk down the 505 trail to look for the girls now forgive me everyone as
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I've only seen this on maps but it appears to me that the 501 trail is the more heavily traveled
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trail it appears to be like the main trail there Derek takes the other trail the 505 which dead ends at Deer Creek he
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does not find the girls and he does not see anyone else so he turns around and he heads back the way he came walking
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all the way back to his vehicle once he is near his vehicle he calls Becky patty
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Becky is Libby's grandmother derek is telling her hey I'm here Libby is not picking up the phone the girls are not
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here this this phone call takes place at 3:30 p.m. after the call Derek is going
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to walk the 501 pass so he gets there he's calling nobody's answering he walks down a path the less Lessard traveled
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path gets back to the car still nothing now he's gonna go walk the main path but
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at this point there has to be some level of concern oh yeah yeah so much so that
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he's already called Becky the grandmother right so let's give a general description of this path which i
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think is very important for those that have not seen this on a map all right from where he is parked the general
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description is this starting from where he parked he walks a short distance on a
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short trail once there he is standing at the 501 Trail which is a long trail it's
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the more traveled trail it's also called the moanin high bridge trail because if
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you are standing right there at the intersecting trails trail 501 or the moanin high bridge trail to the
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northwest goes all the way to the freedom bridge which is a beautiful pedestrian bridge that extends over
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highway 25 better known as the Hoosier Heartland highway or Triple H for a wrestling fans to the northwest is this
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beautiful freedom bridge right to the southeast is the moanin high bridge so Derrick goes up to the freedom bridge to
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see if the girls are up there he does not see them then again he turns around by the time he gets back to the
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intersecting trails this is when members of Libby's family start to arrive to help in the search
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remember we said Kelsey was going to work well she got a call from Becky the grandmother who is alerting the family
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that Libby is missing so instead of going to work Kelsey returns to help as well just real quick just to recap
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because a lot of things are happening here the girls were dropped off at approximately 1:40 p.m. I've seen this
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time as early as 1:35 p.m. and as late as 1:45 p.m. yeah the snapchat photo is at 207 p.m. so we know they are alive
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and well at 207 then not even an hour and a half later less than 90 minutes later Derek is there at 3:15 looking for
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them at 3:30 Becky is notified and by 4:00 p.m. less than two hours after the snapchat photo multiple members of
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Libby's family are there at the trails and looking for the girls between 3:30 and 4:00 p.m.
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her family continues to try to call her some leaving voicemails and some texting
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as well at about 4:20 p.m. Kelsey along with Cody Cody is Libby's uncle Kelsey and Cody set out down the trail and they
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go in the direction of the moanin High Bridge and they actually crossed the bridge when they get to the other side
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of the bridge they went to a couple of the homes in the area knocking on doors to inquire about Libby and ABI
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according to Kelsey and Cody they only speak to one person and of course that person had not seen the girls Mike patty
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is Libby's grandfather just a quick background for those who are less familiar with the case Libby and her
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older sister Kelsey were raised by their grandparents Mike and Becky Derrick is their father both their father and
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mother are involved in their lives but the mother lives all the way or lived at the time about four hours away in
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Kentucky Mike Patti Libby's grandfather arrives on the scene this is right around five
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p.m. now there's a residence very near the trailhead parking area Mike goes to this home he knows these people there at
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the home while there he calls a friend of his who is a police officer then Mike goes back to the trails this is around
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5:20 p.m. at 5:30 p.m. Libby's family calls and notifies the police a huge search gets underway but
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is called off once it gets too dark in a news release Carroll County Sheriff Toby
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Lazenby says there's no reason to suspect foul play or believe the girls are in immediate
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danger Vaughn based off of video footage and photos that I've seen of this area this
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would be difficult I think to search at night actually I'd actually think parts of it would actually be dangerous to
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search at night there's steep hills there and there's also I mean that bridge that moanin high bridge is
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dangerous in itself right it's an abandoned railroad bridge anybody that walks across it and many people have it
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was a popular place to go before this incident but even after people have filmed themselves or taking pictures of
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themselves on this bridge and you see everybody looking down as they walk it it's a 70 foot drop 70 or 75 foot drop
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if you fall off that bridge and anybody that's ever walked on an abandoned railroad bridge knows that that
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sometimes they're missing steps and even all the steps that are there there's a distance between them where you could
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you could twist an ankle you could easily lose your footing right and on top of that too I've seen
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pictures of this area both in the summer fall winter and even in the month of February even with all the leaves off of
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the trees this is an area that's heavily wooded in in a lot of parts and tough to
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see things at any distance at all even when the the leaves are off of the trees right so they call off the search there
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they're trying to be hopeful but I'd be a little concerned that if they're out there somewhere in the park
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that this is not the best area for them to be in especially after dark right and
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you have the highway that's right by there the the Indiana Highway number 25 which we've discussed that on other
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cases too you don't want to disappear go missing right around a highway but that
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also probably leads to some kind of discussion on several levels these are young teenage girls it's it's they've
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only been missing for a few hours probably let's say five six hours by the time they call off the search right
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you're probably having the discussion with her caretakers with with the parents and caretakers of these two
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young girls that they might have they might be off partying with somebody or they might be out you know doing
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something right they could have been drop us off at the park we're gonna meet up with somebody that they just didn't
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tell their Guardians about so they're not gonna start searching until the next morning which would be February 14th
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2017 yeah the search continues for the girls and there are several of these teams of searchers out there they you
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can find on YouTube and any of the people that were local remember that they were calling that morning they were
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out on TV broadcasting and saying anybody that is available today please come out and help us search this area
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for these two girls but unfortunately just after around 12 o'clock noon one of the teams finds two bodies and this is
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about a half a mile away from the bridge from the moanin High Bridge so if you're
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looking at a map of the area and based off of later evidence the girls were abducted after 207 p.m. we know that
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from the the snapchat photo and they would have been abducted after 207 p.m. at the south east side of the bridge
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this is where they were likely ordered by the abductor to go down the hill they would have went down the hill and then
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across a long private driveway now this is not keep in mind this is not the suburbs so when we say driveway it's not
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what anybody's picturing this driveway looks like a long gravel and dirt road and at this approximate location you
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can't really see any houses there's not houses or like other roads visible at this location so as soon as they they go
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across this dirt road gravel road private driveway whatever you want to call it they would have then went down
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yet another hill and this one is steeper than the last this would put them right
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at the edge of Deer Creek the bodies were found on the opposite side of this Creek about 50 feet from the north bank
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of Deer Creek police have not publicly stated how the girls were murdered and law enforcement secured a large area of
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this north bank of the creek with crime scene tape as well as some of the areas from that southeast side of the bridge
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working your way down to the creek side we do not know if the girls were ordered
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to cross the creek at the shallow point there or if they try to make a run for it or if in fact they may have been
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killed and then carried across the creek to try to conceal the bodies further we
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don't know that but we know that they were found across the creek is there any way to get across the creek some other
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way like by driving down a path or I say that they crossed at this shallow point
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because that would be what would make the most sense be from from where they were found
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right if you were to cross the creek there's there's that one shallow point right there and it's near that north
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bank area where they were were found and I don't believe that police have actually disclosed whether or not their
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clothing was wet with the creek water well that's that's the difficult thing here in this case and that's why we're
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going to go through in this manner because when we originally covered it was very early in the case and there was
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little to known facts about the case there was a lot of speculation there was even speculation at that time that they
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were found in the creek and we can piece together words of law enforcement and detectives since then to know that
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that's not true they were found on dry ground about 50 feet from the creek side regarding the wet clothing we don't know
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if their clothing was found at all right for starters and factoring in the the distance of time the time that has
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elapsed from when it's believed that they were abducted and likely killed to when they were found I can't say I can't
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say if their clothes would have been still wet at that time what I can say what you're saying just so we're clear
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you're not saying that they were found nude I don't know we don't I don't know but that's why I'm saying is the way you
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made it sound was like we don't know if their clothes were even found right best
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about wet clothes and I'm saying we just don't know because we don't we don't even have anybody to tell us if the
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clothes clothing was on them was found was was never there whatever but what I'm going to guess here and say is that
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and I'm basing this simply off of just what the police did in fact rope off with with the large area on that north
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bank creek side with crime scene tape I'm completely guessing here captain but it
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would seem more likely to me that they were they were probably killed on the side of the creek in which they were
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found again I don't know if that means that they were ordered to cross the creek or if they tried to make a run for
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it now on the 15th on February 15th autopsies were conducted on the bodies that afternoon Indiana State Police in
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the Carroll County Sheriff's Department held a press conference and they did confirm that they found
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Liberty and Abigail Libby and Abbie the girls were murdered and again they did not state how they were killed Indiana
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State Police also released a photo of a man reportedly seen on the trail around the time the girls disappeared the image
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shows a white male with his hands in his pockets while walking on the bridge he's
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wearing jeans and a navy blue jacket and a hat well the the Hat is still an argument but a lot of the news pressors
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that came out around this time described him as wearing a hat that's very pixelated police this is the other
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tricky thing here right from the get-go so police do not call the man a suspect but say that they would like to talk
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with him we've seen this tactic in other cases sometimes that person is actually
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considered a suspect by law enforcement but by releasing it in this manner right not calling him a suspect and just
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saying we would like to talk with him there have been cases where that individual has come forward to try to
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explain away why they are in the area at that time yes hi you looking for me yeah
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now also law enforcement does not say where the photo came from or how they obtained the photo now I remember
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thinking and and I don't think this was stated anywhere by and I know it wasn't stated by law enforcement but I'm sure
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others may have been thinking the same thing that I thought maybe this photo this it was a still image may have just
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been captured from some type of trail camera right but we're gonna soon learn that this actually was taken by Libby on
00:24:05
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00:27:32
cheers to you captain on February 22nd 2017 there is another news conference this is the now-famous news conference
00:27:43
where police reveal that one of the victims Libby recorded video and audio of the suspect
00:27:51
on her cell phone the audio recording is released to the public it's a man's voice saying down the hill
00:28:00
this audio triggered more than a thousand tips we captain you and I like so many others offered our speculation
00:28:08
on not only the photo but the audio when we first covered this case back in May of 2017 in episodes 110 and 111 yeah
00:28:19
those are free to listen to on the stitcher app and a lot of the speculation that was involved between
00:28:25
you and I and like I said others on their TV shows their podcast in newspaper articles everywhere was how
00:28:34
much more does police have what more was recovered from Libby's phone and we also
00:28:41
questioned things like you know the voice sounds muffled is that because the the phone was concealed in her pocket
00:28:48
and how did they obtain this information that was on her phone was her phone in fact found I believe now I you know at
00:28:58
the time I thought maybe they pulled this stuff from the the cloud possibly I've changed my opinion on that I'm
00:29:06
starting to think that they probably found her phone and it was just a I think the killer was in a rush to get
00:29:13
out of there and may have not known that his image and his voice was captured on
00:29:20
her phone yeah or was unaware that she had a phone I mean there's any any number of reasons
00:29:26
out there but again I'm just simply guessing on that but I wanted to mention that I've changed my thoughts and
00:29:31
feelings on that I think pop very likely that they found her phone now by March first
00:29:39
the reward money for information in the case grew to $200,000 eight days later Mike Patti
00:29:48
Libby's grandfather who some on the internet were saying looked like the suspect or the bridge guy speaks out
00:29:56
publicly for the first time at the Carroll County Courthouse personally I don't think Mike looks anything like
00:30:04
what I think I'm seeing in the photo of the bridge guy and I say what I think that I'm seeing because as you pointed
00:30:11
out it's a picture pixelated grainy photo right it's taken some distance away the man on the bridge the bridge
00:30:19
guy is some distance away from Libby when she took this video footage and what's released to the public
00:30:27
there's hot debate and has been for almost two year well for over two years about what we are seeing and what this
00:30:36
individual looks like but again personally I don't think nor have I ever thought that that Mike patty looks
00:30:42
anything like what we are seeing in that photo and then later the video footage right but you have two children dead we
00:30:53
have no evidence of the grandfather being there around 2 o'clock let's say and you would think that with this
00:31:04
information he might not have known let's just say hypothetically it was him he wouldn't have known that he was
00:31:10
having his picture taken by her you would think that somebody in the family would come forward and say that looks
00:31:19
like him yeah and there's nobody coming forward and doing that and and I think they probably agree with me that it
00:31:26
doesn't that they don't think it looks like him one I don't think it looks like him body type I don't think it looks
00:31:31
like his face I don't think it looks like his his facial features his hair his nothing like there's there's none of
00:31:39
it that other than it being a white guy right I don't see any other any other possible connection plus we know that
00:31:47
Mike patty has an alibi for that time period he he very likely when you really tear through
00:31:55
this timeline and some of the phone calls that were going on right I find it very likely that Mike Patti would have
00:32:02
been unaware that the girls were even there until they were until people were worried right until they said hey
00:32:10
they're missing him and I think that's what's so difficult in this case is it seems like there's a lot of grabbing at
00:32:16
straws I mean the first thing that I'd want to know investigating this case is one we don't know if this bridge guy is
00:32:24
connected or not we're not law enforcement so we don't know the extent of information than that phone captured
00:32:31
do we have minutes of audio footage do we have minutes of video footage we don't know we're not law enforcement and
00:32:40
might but my first thing when looking at this case is who was supposed to drop her off where were they at what's their
00:32:49
alibi after that then it becomes who was supposed to pick them up where's his location based off maybe
00:32:57
cellphone pings you know does the does the father get there earlier than he says he did you know where where was he
00:33:07
at what's his alibi what would his motive be this is where I would start but you see quickly in this case people
00:33:16
jumping to that looks like the grandpa and and having really no evidence to connect them connect that at all well
00:33:25
and that's what this case will has been and will continue to be and this is not a standalone incident we've seen this in
00:33:33
other cases where they release a composite sketch drawing of the person last seen with somebody or a potential
00:33:41
suspect right and you get a flood of people calling in and the tip is not a great tip it's just a tip of I know
00:33:49
somebody that looks like that or I was driving on the on the this such-and-such road on Main Street and I passed a car
00:33:57
and the guy in the car looked exactly like that dude like that picture like that drawing but what we will learn is
00:34:04
that we will eventually learn just to clear anything up here that the the image captured on Libby's
00:34:12
phone it is it is announced later that that is the killer of the two girls so that is the person that we are looking
00:34:21
for the debate is what are we seeing what does he actually look like because it's a grainy again it's a grainy
00:34:29
picture and he he's walking with his face down and he's not walking with his face down to try to conceal himself from
00:34:38
her her camera phone I don't think he even knew that he was being videotaped he's looking down because he's making
00:34:46
sure that he doesn't lose his footing on that bridge mine Falls 70 feet just like
00:34:50
everybody else if this guy felt that he needed to conceal his face from from these two girls he would have put on a
00:34:59
mask or he would have put something on he would have done that in a different manner other than just simply looking
00:35:04
down as he's walking toward them and I want to go ahead and throw this out there too you can tell that he's
00:35:11
hurriedly he's in a hurry walking towards them so even more important that he's paying attention to the placement
00:35:19
of his feet as he makes his way across the bridge what we're going to see here though this whole thing that I'm
00:35:29
pointing out here with Mike paddy but the grandfather he's making this this very personalized statement this very
00:35:38
heartfelt statement at the County Courthouse but I'm pointing this out because on the
00:35:44
internet people are saying that he looked like the suspect or some people thought he looked like the suspect this
00:35:50
is really just the start of the online suspects that we will see in this case and it quickly continued because on
00:35:58
March 17th the Indiana State Police the FBI and Carroll County sheriff's deputies serve a search warrant this is
00:36:07
at the home of Ron Logan Ron Logan owns the 30 acre property where Abby and Libby were found yeah the popular TV
00:36:17
show Inside Edition speaks this man in his interview he says he was buying tropical fish at the time of the
00:36:25
murders Ron Logan is later arrested and sentenced to two years for operating a vehicle this is after he was illegally
00:36:34
operating a vehicle this is after being a habitual traffic offender he is accused of driving to the county dump on
00:36:43
the same day that the girls vanished to be 100% clear he has not been charged in
00:36:50
regards to the murders although he certainly been same kind of scenario a lot of people saw his interview and went
00:36:59
that looks like the guy right and it's his property so and there's some debate on how cooperative he has been with
00:37:09
police right I've seen people that have said Ron has been gone out of his way to
00:37:15
do everything he can to make sure that they know what he was up to that he was not involved and then I've heard other
00:37:23
other arguments that have said just the complete counter of that then he has not
00:37:30
been very forthcoming yeah and a lot of people actually speculate that here's this lesser charge that we can charge
00:37:38
him with and therefore maybe he would then say something because I remember at the time once they arrested him it's
00:37:44
like okay well here's this guy that claims he was somewhere where he wasn't you know then they you know why is he at
00:37:52
the dump the day that these these girls are found yeah none of this is sounding good this is it yeah that doesn't sound
00:37:59
good what what is he disposing of because yes you've you find these bodies but again we don't know if they were
00:38:07
clothed they're not clothed and then on top of that what did he use for these murders and
00:38:12
did he go to the dump and dump those so a lot of people speculated early that this was a tactic to get him behind bars
00:38:23
get him thinking about what happened get him away from everybody and therefore he
00:38:28
would then come forward and maybe could possibly confess to this the other thing though too is you know
00:38:35
we talked about what does not sound good for for Ron what does look good to me is I don't
00:38:42
think that he looked like the bridge guy I think Ron looks considerably older than what I think I'm seeing in that
00:38:49
picture and he I don't think he matches the description not only does he look older he looks a little bit he looks
00:38:55
taller to me then then what we believe we are looking for and then in July of 2017 after everyone was waiting and
00:39:05
waiting for the other shoe to drop for some kind of new information on the case the Indiana State Police released a
00:39:12
sketch of the murder suspect the person depicted in the composite sketch is described as a white male between five
00:39:20
foot six inches tall to five foot 10 inches tall weighing 180 to 220 pounds with reddish brown hair and eye color
00:39:29
unknown right so this would go against Logan yeah these are the hair color one also the the drawing looks a lot younger
00:39:39
than than Logan looks yeah and this is the this part of the story can get a little confusing for people not so
00:39:46
familiar with the case because there are eventually two sketches released this is
00:39:51
the first one and you I guarantee that people have seen this this is the one with the the flapjack hat on in the
00:39:58
little kind of thin goatee hair sticking out on the sides around the ears and the
00:40:04
individual wearing a hoodie while in the picture that they released to the public
00:40:08
it's very pixelated so then one would have to start assuming that they had some other angle some other picture that
00:40:17
they found on Libby's phone and that's how they're getting this drawing well that's that's interesting that's always
00:40:26
been another hotly debated item so it's rumored and then later stated on the dr.
00:40:33
Phil show that that that this sketch was the product of more than one eyewitness
00:40:39
who saw this man on the trails so going off of that statement it seems like this
00:40:45
sketch is not Pyle based off what they think they were seeing on her phone or on that footage
00:40:51
but based off of more than one eyewitness who saw or claims to have seen this man on the trails the the day
00:40:58
that the girls were killed now for some speculation on this several people have put together and compiled
00:41:06
some good info on this case these people seem to believe that given the timing of
00:41:14
the known facts and of the persons on the trails that day and Libby's family they're searching for her just shortly
00:41:23
after the abduction for there to be more than one eyewitness of this man many believe he must have been spotted both
00:41:32
before and after the murders some have made a strong case that the man wearing the plaid or flannel shirt that
00:41:40
interacted with Derrick on the trail in her section before 3:30 p.m. people have
00:41:45
pointed out that he must be or very likely could be one of the persons to have seen the suspect and given that
00:41:54
timeline he likely saw the suspect after the murders when the suspect was trying
00:42:00
to leave the area this is interesting on several levels if in fact that if it's true one because it has never been
00:42:08
publicly released where the public where the suspect was spotted and by who and even though there are several theories
00:42:16
out there we don't know what route or exactly where the suspect left the area from right from law enforcement
00:42:24
statements it's believed at least one witness is a man and at least one witness to the suspect was a female and
00:42:34
I say that because in one of the pressors when giving answers one of the officers says she in in response to this
00:42:44
composite sketch so and I would argue or just speculate that these eyewitness accounts are before pre murder because
00:42:57
where they're found and the area that they're found is is it's off the trail and to then backtrack and to get back
00:43:07
onto the trail to leave my gut has telling me that that's not how it happened that's possible but we don't
00:43:18
know where this where this monster parked his vehicle right and it more if he had a vehicle there at all it may not
00:43:25
have been out of design it may been have had to have been out of necessity to make his way back and backtrack through
00:43:32
the trails correct he could have also avoided the main trail for a large portion of whatever part that he had to
00:43:41
walk back to his vehicle you know tromping through the woods as much as he could until he had to get
00:43:47
back on to the trail and and if you if he had to get back on the trail I would say that would be more likely we cannot
00:43:54
say for certain that the man in the plaid or flannel shirt was one of the people that claims to have seen the
00:44:01
suspect that was provided details to come up with this sketch but I'm guessing based off of that and this
00:44:11
individual has talked with with police pretty extensively if regarding his timeline flannel shirt
00:44:19
man plaid shirt man's timeline right if he if he tells police I did not arrive until to the park or trail area until
00:44:28
this time that might be why the speculation is that maybe he did in fact see this suspect after the murders
00:44:36
because we now what's so interesting about this timeline to me and what we did not know when we first covered this
00:44:43
case is the the window in which the the murders very likely occurred is so much shorter than what we originally thought
00:44:53
right we're talking about it's so very likely that this this all went down between about 2:15 and and maybe three
00:45:04
o'clock right it seems to be generally believed or or theorized that the killer had already made his way
00:45:11
out of that general area by the time or shortly after Derrick Libby's father arrived and looking for
00:45:19
her and I think you can base that that thought off of his interaction with the flannel shirt man right all right sorry
00:45:30
I went down I went down a long road there but thank you for for joining me on it there but I also want to bring up
00:45:37
the fact that based on it's speculated because they're not telling us how they died how they were killed right but from
00:45:50
some of the rumors out there that you would think that this guy would have some kind of blood on him there would be
00:45:58
some kind of blood evidence and so that's why like I said whether you're leaving from a different way that you
00:46:05
came in because you could backtrack somewhere or like you said and I agree with you staying off the path as long as
00:46:13
you can because you have this evidence on you that something bad happened and so so I think that again they have all
00:46:23
this information they're only releasing bits and pieces so we can only speculate
00:46:28
on some of these things you know what I do want to point out real quick while we're on that topic before before the
00:46:35
thought leaves my tiny little brain here there is one youtuber who's done well there are several youtubers that have
00:46:42
done a lot of work on this case some of it good some of it bad just that's my warning if you choose to go down that
00:46:49
path don't say that Nick don't say that the colonel and the captain sent you go in there swim at your own risk some of
00:46:55
it is good info and some of it is absolutely painful and terrible to watch yeah but that's not stuff right but at
00:47:02
the end of the day there's two murdered kids and I think that's why the community has in the community of true
00:47:09
crime errs have trying to got behind this case and and try to do everything they can to put the word out there and
00:47:17
sometimes people get fixated and their ideas and fixated on you know it has to be
00:47:22
this Logan guy or has to be the father has to be the grandfather they just get fixated but at the end of the day I
00:47:29
think they don't mean harm by that I think they're really trying to bring attention to the case well this is one
00:47:36
thing that I found super interesting that this this guy did and I can't remember his first name last name green
00:47:42
Oh green oh has done a lot of YouTube work his case and one thing that he did that I found incredibly interesting was
00:47:51
he had a man we're about the same color of jeans cuz that's one thing you can't dispute that's not up for debate we know
00:48:00
we can look at that picture and see what color those jeans are that the guy was wearing and so he had somebody wear the
00:48:07
same color of jeans and remember what we do know is this the killer the bridge guy would have had to cross that Creek
00:48:17
at some point and it would either be because he ordered the girls across the creek and killed him there or he
00:48:24
transported the bodies there or he or he chased after them because they tried to
00:48:28
make a run for it right so those are two known facts and this is what I think is
00:48:33
brilliant anybody anytime anybody can take some known facts and then do a little experimentation with them yeah
00:48:41
fantastic work so so a big kudos to green oh there but what he did was he had a man wear the same color of jeans
00:48:49
and then walk across that Creek at that shallow area and then very shortly afterwards he videotaped the guy's jeans
00:48:58
which sounds silly but what he's pointing out is and it was very clear on on the from his footage if this man if
00:49:07
the bridge guy were walking and later spotted by somebody it's very likely that nobody would say I saw a man
00:49:14
wearing wet jeans walking on the trail the way the color of those jeans when he filmed him after the guy walked across
00:49:21
the the water there Brian did not appear to look wet to me which I found fascinating because that was one thing
00:49:29
that I always wondered about once we learned more of the area of where in fact they were found
00:49:35
I kept going well why wouldn't have out of these witnesses and out of these people that were at the bridge and at
00:49:41
the trails those days that day and then all these people from Libby's family there shortly afterwards looking for her
00:49:48
mm-hmm it would have been so easy for police to get a tip that oh I saw a guy that looked exactly like this and what
00:49:54
was so odd about him was he was soaking wet but we don't have that tip right and
00:49:59
again we don't know you would think maybe you would see more of that if the perpetrator chased after them and had to
00:50:08
run through the water but again if it's one of those things where it's the the crime happened on one side and then the
00:50:16
murderer transported their bodies over you could roll up your jeans or whatever but basically what what your stadium
00:50:23
which i think is very intelligent is the idea of even if they walked through the
00:50:29
water you might not have seen this might not have stuck out to you no because all
00:50:35
it looks like is a darker pair of blue jeans it doesn't look like like they're soaking wet it just looks like a darker
00:50:43
color a darker shade of blue and here's the other thing too regarding Mike paddy
00:50:48
and the the property owner Logan Ron Logan look I understand people had their suspicions but I want to throw this out
00:50:59
there just so we can all try to get on the same page this is not some fumbling and bumbling investigation this is the
00:51:09
state police this is the FBI this is the Sheriff's Department this is as many agencies as you can possibly think of
00:51:16
working together putting all their resources into solving this case at keyword FBI if the if the bridge guy was
00:51:28
somebody so close in social circle to one of the victims such as Mike patty or somebody so close
00:51:36
in proximity as to Ron Logan to where the bodies were found on his property it's been over two years this thing
00:51:43
would have been solved by now now nobody's out there standing on a hill saying I'm going to die on this hill
00:51:49
and argue this to death that these two were not involved nobody's doing that so there's still public speculation and
00:51:56
suspicions out there I'm saying that I believe if somebody was so close either in proximity or relationship to the
00:52:06
girls that committed this crime that woods was in fact bridge guide the killer this thing would have been solved
00:52:13
by now it seems so far-fetched that that that that would be the result when this
00:52:20
thing does finally get solved because it will so let's continue on with some some
00:52:25
other suspects here captain well I just want to say I agree with you mostly but again we don't know what evidence they
00:52:34
have and what evidence they don't have and so but what we do know is that they haven't come out publicly and said that
00:52:43
Logan is not involved they haven't come out publicly and stated that that they cleared everybody in the family or
00:52:49
cleared people in closed circles so that has to remain on the table and I think especially the family members are
00:52:59
normally understanding of that you take any case like where a wife is murdered and they heavily investigate the husband
00:53:07
most of time if if the husband is innocent he's saying that's fine keep looking at me keep keep investigating me
00:53:16
if you want you're gonna get to a dead end at some point so I think that you have to keep those on the table because
00:53:25
again we don't know exactly what they have and what they don't well this is where for some the levee broke and this
00:53:34
is on September 17 2017 when authorities in Colorado arrested a man named Daniel
00:53:41
nations for having expired Indiana license plates police say he could be linked to the murders and call him a
00:53:50
person of interest in the Delphi case Daniel nations is a sex offender from the state of Indiana and he was homeless
00:53:58
at the time of the murder so nailing down his whereabouts is difficult to say the least nation's
00:54:06
wife says he resembles the police sketch of the suspect but did not own the clothing seen in the photo in fact she
00:54:17
told The Gazette newspaper quote I can't tell if that is him or not but the one thing I'm not going to buckle on he did
00:54:27
not have that jacket so Daniel Nations was arrested during the Tim Watkins murder investigation
00:54:34
this murder took place in the state of Colorado to be clear he was arrested during this investigation but he was not
00:54:42
been charged in the murder of Tim Watkins even though there are some who suspect nations could possibly have
00:54:49
killed Tim Wright because he was seen and reported to be threatening people with a hatchet on the trails out there
00:54:56
but Tim Watkins was killed with a gun and authorities have been unable to link nations to a gun and the murder of Tim
00:55:05
Watkins well here's what happened in the public eye though you hear here's this guy that was arrested he was on these
00:55:12
trails he was threatening people with a hatchet and you go and he's from Indiana
00:55:16
and I believe he had a probation hearing or some kind of hearing that he was supposed to show up it was he's supposed
00:55:24
to check in regularly because he's a sex offender right he's like supposed he's got a
00:55:29
parole officer and all that jazz and he's got to show up and say hey I'm here I'm still I'm still working at my job
00:55:35
I'm keeping my nose clean I'm not doing anything weird but I was like so he didn't show up yeah but it was like the
00:55:40
week after the murders it was like some weird timing where it's like so not only
00:55:48
do the you know not only do we not know his whereabouts when he was in Indiana but here these murders take place and
00:55:57
you take off and the next right next time we see you you're in Colorado threatening people with a hacked in like
00:56:03
a complete nutjob and if you see his picture and you see the first drawing of the suspect you go I can see that and
00:56:12
then that was it they they were saying that they were transporting back to Indiana mhm and then we just
00:56:20
kind of set around for a while just wondering what was happening yeah we talked about who I think does not look
00:56:26
like the sketch or the bridge guy of what I think I'm seeing in the in the picture there yeah if you put Mike Patti
00:56:35
Ron Logan and Daniel nations in a lineup and said Nick which one of these looks like the bridge guy I'm saying
00:56:43
Daniel nations please step forward here he looks to me a much more like potential launch guys than the other two
00:56:51
yeah same hair color as described as well same weird face but he he claims his alibi is that he was tagging along
00:57:01
with his wife for a doctor's visit that day too which later she says I believe he was with me but I can't I can't prove
00:57:10
100% that he was in fact with me that day now keep in mind she's being asked this you know six months later right
00:57:19
seven months later we covered Tim Watkins case if anybody's interested in checking that out earlier this year in
00:57:28
March this is episodes 284 and 285 and we also covered the Daniel nations portion of that case in depth in those
00:57:36
episodes On February 14th 2018 one year after the double homicides of Libby and Abby
00:57:46
authorities say Daniel Nations is not a suspect saying quote we went out to Colorado and we spent a little bit of
00:57:54
time with Daniel nations and he is not a person we care a whole lot about at this
00:58:00
time this comes from superintendent Douglas Carter with the Indiana State Police he said this at a news conference
00:58:09
this is where I think the the DNA question comes up right because you and I have been fairly vocal about this on
00:58:20
off-the-record or on our other show questioning if in fact they have DNA now what we can report is this we know that
00:58:32
early in the investigation it was stated that they had DNA that disappeared from
00:58:38
the news at some point and disappeared from their statements at some point yeah there's also rumor that very quickly I
00:58:47
mean we're talking like the next day two days after the girls were found very quickly in this investigation the first
00:58:55
48 force first 72 hours after finding the bodies the local rumor is that the state police were in the area knocking
00:59:07
on doors not only interviewing everybody that lived in the immediate area but also asking them to submit DNA right
00:59:17
which would lead you to believe that they have DNA but what if it was just like you know as a cautionary measure
00:59:23
and we're talking to you will you submit DNA you will thank you so much autopsy comes back we have no DNA from
00:59:32
the perpetrator and you're exactly right and that's that's the whole problem with
00:59:37
public perception on this case and others as well you can't immediately go while they're
00:59:45
asking people for DNA so they must have it you just you can't believe that because it is a tactic it's an
00:59:52
investigative tool just to see if you can make somebody squirm and if they squirm when you ask them a question or
00:59:58
ask them to cooperate in any shape or form then you want to know why the hell they're squirming right right so I
01:00:04
acquire you a SCORM environment yeah I I agree with you 100% here captain I personally think that they have DNA or
01:00:13
some form of DNA and I say that for a couple reasons I'm not convinced I'm not 100% convinced I could be talked the
01:00:23
other way but this this whole statement of of Daniel Nations is not really somebody that we really care a whole lot
01:00:34
about that's that's like a vague statement of almost well did you clear the guy because that sounds I mean the
01:00:41
public it seemed like like watching the old Frankenstein movie where the where there's a mob with torches that are
01:00:49
ready to hang this guy yeah and in you come out with some vague statement and I'm not criticizing police because I
01:00:56
think they've done I think they've worked incredibly hard on this case but the vague statement
01:01:03
they've not been willing to show their hand they don't have to they don't want to it's it's almost where this is
01:01:11
something I'm not really worried about right but we have two dead kids and it's been over two years and oh but I I do
01:01:18
not want to invest don't have to show their hands they don't they don't right but I I would I understand who the
01:01:26
victims are I'm not going to ask them to compromise their investigation in any form or fashion no I don't want them to
01:01:32
compromise it No so what I don't understand what you're asking no what I'm saying is that I think your
01:01:40
statement is a little silly because it's like well then they don't have to show anything they don't have to do anything
01:01:46
well whatever their they've done so far it obviously hasn't worked I mean we have evidence of that so I I don't know
01:01:57
what they're supposed to do I'm not I'm not a detective I couldn't tell you what
01:02:02
they're supposed to do I leaned towards the idea that they don't have DNA and the reason why is
01:02:09
because normally when they have solid DNA in cases especially child murder cases we've seen this with Jon Benet
01:02:16
Ramsey and other cases like that where they test the DNA and they definitively tell you that this guy's cleared you
01:02:27
sure I mean and that's where I wonder if they have it because if they if they do
01:02:35
have it and they're testing people and they're clearing people and they're not making that public you know public
01:02:40
knowledge then that's a bad thing because just you take this Logan guy for example these these girls are found on
01:02:47
his property thirty acres which is pretty freaking big think about the ringer that they put him
01:02:55
through and if they had the DNA to test against his who's they that put Ron Logan through a ringer is that law
01:03:06
enforcement or the public because law enforcement is not in charge of the public no I understand that but again if
01:03:15
law enforcement has the DNA and they matched it and it didn't match Logan's DNA then I think you have a
01:03:22
responsibility when you know the public is going after this guy like you said like the old Frankenstein movies you I
01:03:31
think you have a obligation to him you're supposed to serve and protect each individual and if you have a test
01:03:40
that definitively shows that he wasn't involved I think you have the obligation to then come out and go hey we know that
01:03:46
people are speculating that even though he was right but that's that's my reasoning that to me that's the evidence
01:03:53
that they don't have the DNA because or that they don't have Ron Logan's DNA yeah but he was arrested they could have
01:04:01
taken his DNA then and same way--with nations so here's to individuals is that our highly suspect on top of that a
01:04:08
third end of is that a felony charge because I think in most states that you have to be charged in convicted of a
01:04:17
felony to be forced to submit your DNA I could be wrong but that's my understanding before s--
01:04:24
but if you're again again okay obviously we don't know for a fact if they have Logan's DNA or not
01:04:33
do they have nation's DNA do they have you know the grandfather's DNA I'm not for sure but I would just assume it if
01:04:42
I'm the grandfather and everybody's saying hey you kind of look like the bridge guy and they in law enforcement
01:04:47
tell me they have DNA and I know I'm not the killer swab me up so that to me that's you like like it's like you said
01:04:59
to me there's not definitive evidence but to me there's enough showing me they're not it's just like with this
01:05:06
nation out of nowhere it's kind of like well we're not that interested their exact
01:05:13
words are he is somebody that we not we do not care a whole lot about at this time right but again that's not
01:05:19
definitive right that's what I said a vague statement right so that makes me but that makes me feel like they don't
01:05:26
have the DNA evidence because they're kind of like well we don't care about them at this time but I think if they
01:05:35
had DNA evidence they would say we're not interested in him with him about this case period not like we're not
01:05:42
interested with him at this time again though I go I I think that that goes back to a couple of things 100% it comes
01:05:55
back to whether they have DNA or not but on two different levels I think if they
01:06:00
don't have DNA they want and they're fine with the bridge guy walking around believing that they have it or
01:06:08
suspecting that they have it right so they don't want to show their hand on that front if they don't have it now if
01:06:15
they do have it and there's something up with it right that's tricky too there could be some kind of whether they call
01:06:25
that one there's actually a mixture well there there's a bazillion different things that could be going on with it
01:06:31
so one it could be that they have it but it their sample is of such that they need to compare it to a profile and they
01:06:41
can't really do a whole lot with it without having having a match to compare it to Brian if that's the case that's
01:06:49
difficult or they could have it and it'd be contaminated right they could you know what I mean there's there's a
01:06:56
million different things that you can really go into here the reason why I go on the opposite side and what's
01:07:02
interesting I think here is that really you and I kind of have the same argument
01:07:06
for different sides of the fence is that my where I lean to that they probably have some form of DNA is that they are
01:07:17
somewhat dismissing people and we see that with nation which is which is the same in just as
01:07:23
good of an argument as you're saying well they've not cleared other people who probably should be cleared in the
01:07:29
eyes of the public right and so therefore it makes me think that they don't have it I did do a and the other
01:07:35
reason why I say that too though is it's with the press conferences with talking
01:07:40
with with the family members and everybody's respect for these law enforcement officers and the respect
01:07:49
that I you could you got to give it to him just when you hear the press conference how much they care how much
01:07:55
they're working towards us they seem like good officers and if they were able to clear guide that that the society was
01:08:02
trying to throw shade on I think that would do it you know a hundred percent I think they would come out and say a
01:08:08
hundred percent this person is not involved in the murder of these children I can't wait until they do solve this
01:08:15
thing because I think that the the full story that comes out about the investigation and the way that they took
01:08:23
this the directions that it's gone in whether they took at that direction or the investigation led them in that
01:08:29
direction I think the it will end up being a very interesting story from that aspect of this case and I I think that
01:08:42
like just like they have said we can't we can't tell you everything that we know one day we would like to sit down
01:08:51
and do that and where I say that I they don't have to show their hand and I don't want them to and you question well
01:08:59
it's not working it's not working in the sense that we know that they've not arrested the killer they've not arrested
01:09:05
the bridge guy he's not sitting there waiting to go to trial but where it where in fact it that same tactic may be
01:09:13
working is they may be crossing people off their list and the suspect pool is going to get shorter and shorter and
01:09:21
shorter and smaller and smaller and smaller so it may be working in some form and fashion that's just not obvious
01:09:28
to us [Music] make sure you join us back here in the garage tomorrow for part two until then
01:09:46
be good be kind and don't litter [Music] [Applause] [Music]