00:00:00
explore today's musthave Trends and Innovative Styles at Mrs be's clearance and outlet shop oneof aind finds in
00:00:06
today's musthave Trends explore wall to--all deals Furniture flooring mattresses Home Accents seasonal
00:00:13
favorites and more discover unique new home decor pillows accessories and more there's something perfect for your style
00:00:20
and budget there's new inventory every day add up to 80% off suggested retail discover the style and savings of Mrs
00:00:27
be's clearance and Outlet when it comes to Quality sleep Ashley has you covered with top mattress brands
00:00:35
at winning prices and with special financing options available you can snooze now and pay later plus your
00:00:42
mattress purchase helps give the gift of better sleep to children in need and US
00:00:47
Special Operations forces visit your local Ashley store or shop online today and make every snooze count financing is
00:00:56
subject to credit approval C store or ashley.com for [Music] [Applause] details [Music]
00:01:42
welcome to True Crime garage wherever you are whatever you are doing thanks for listening I'm your host Nick and
00:01:48
with me as always is a man who just finished reading somehow someway by Gordon Shumway he is the captain when
00:01:55
you laugh at the captain intros you can tell I wrote them and when they don't make any sense
00:02:00
those are Nick it's good to be seen and it's good to see you thanks for listening thanks for telling a
00:02:08
[Music] friend today we are featuring pink Drink by Highwire Brewing garage grade three
00:02:17
and 3/4 bottle caps out of five pink Drink is a tar wheat ale brewed with lemongrass and raspberries with an ABV
00:02:25
of 4.2% all right a round of drinks and a big cheers to Trey and Anna in Atlanta
00:02:32
Georgia and a big shout out to Jessica in Montgomery Alabama next up we have Kayla in Mountain Brook Alabama shout
00:02:41
out to all the freder RICO kitchens fans and a big cheers down under to Trevor from Perth Australia next up we have
00:02:48
Dave W in Wall New Jersey and last but certainly not least cheers to Rachel Von Ry in Medford New Jersey everyone we
00:02:57
just named went to True Crime garage .c and contributed to this week's beer fund
00:03:02
and for that we thank you and we're a little bit behind so be patient or we'll kick you off the list and that is enough
00:03:11
of the Beers N all right everybody gather around grab a chair grab a beer let's talk some true
00:03:28
crime [Music] Friday October 27th 1989 Bay Village Ohio this should have been just a normal
00:04:03
typical Friday the kids go off to school the parents go to work when everyone gets home we can start our
00:04:12
weekend but on this Friday not everyone will come home 10-year-old Amy mahalic went to
00:04:21
school she was in the fifth grade at Bay Village Middle School after school she walked with
00:04:28
friends to the Bay Village shopping plaza Amy was last seen that day by two of her
00:04:35
peers they would later report that they saw Amy mahalic standing outside of the Baskin Robins ice cream
00:04:44
shop Amy was approached by a man in his early 30s standing about 5' 8 to 5' 10 in tall
00:04:53
with dark hair and maybe a bald spot on the top of his head one witness said the man was wearing a
00:05:02
tan jacket and might have been wearing glasses but could not be sure the man walked right up to Amy
00:05:10
leaned down and he said something to her he placed his hand on Amy's back and led her
00:05:20
away this man walked right up to her spoke to her and then took her no one who saw the man with Amy knew
00:05:31
who he was and to this day we don't know who he is but we do know that he is a very very
00:05:44
evil [Music] man [Music] I want to jump right into a very detailed timeline now there are pretty
00:06:07
good timelines out there regarding Amy's case and what went on the day she went missing the lake Eerie murders
00:06:14
documentary does a pretty good one but the best timeline I believe is found in James renner's book Amy my search for
00:06:22
her killer there's a chapter in there called minute by minute and this chapter is by far the most detailed account of
00:06:29
the day that Amy was taken I'm not going to read the minute-by-minute chapter but
00:06:34
most of the following is ripped right from the pages of renner's very good book before we get into this timeline
00:06:42
it's important to note a few things one Amy is in the fifth grade and her older brother Jason is in the seventh grade
00:06:49
they both attend Bay Village Middle School now Bay Village is a very nice small town it's what I would call like a
00:06:58
it's got a suburb feel to it it's upper middle class and at one time it was listed as one of the safest cities
00:07:06
probably in the nation now October 27th 1989 the day Amy was taken it was a particularly warm day that day in Bay
00:07:16
Village a little after 6:00 a.m. Amy woke up and dressed herself she picked out green pants and a pale green
00:07:24
sweatshirt with lavender trim she slipped on her favorite earring these are silhouettes of horse heads
00:07:32
rendered in turquoise mounted on gold studs on the way out the door she put on a white windbreaker she slipped on a
00:07:41
pair of black riding boots laced up the front she grabbed her blue denim book bag with red piping around her
00:07:49
shoulders outside she climbed onto her blue antique bike and met up with two friends Kristen and Katie from down the
00:07:57
road the three Road together to Bay Village Middle School Amy was seated at her desk in Mrs Stewart's classroom
00:08:06
before the bell rang at 7:50 a.m. the students attended an assembly before lunch that day at the assembly
00:08:15
they listened to police officer Mark spettel talk about safety and stranger danger at lunch Amy ate spaghetti in the
00:08:24
school cafeteria classes LED out that day at 2:10 p.m. for the fifth graders normally
00:08:32
Amy would get on her bike and ride home but this day she left the bike behind instead asking a friend her name's
00:08:40
Olivia if she could walk with her the two are walking but this is not in the direction of Amy's home in fact Olivia
00:08:48
mentions to Amy You Never Walk This Way to which Amy replies I'm meeting a friend or I'm meeting a family friend
00:08:56
which those comments are extremely different but it has been reported both ways when
00:09:02
the two were approaching the Bay Village Square shopping center Amy informed Olivia that the shopping center was her
00:09:09
destination and then the two-p parted ways there a classmate of Amy's named Haley then saw Amy walk toward a black
00:09:17
van but then Amy stopped stepped away and walked toward the Baskin Robins store Amy did not go into the ice cream
00:09:26
shop she stood outside swinging around the pole keeping her head down apparently lost in
00:09:32
thought around 2:45 p.m. a girl named Maddie was near the Baskin Robins she saw Amy and she saw A well-dressed man
00:09:43
in a beige or tan jacket walk up to Amy he leaned forward said something to Amy put his hand on her back and led Amy
00:09:51
away at that time Maddie assumed this was Amy's dad at 300 p.m. Amy's brother Jason arrived home now this is one of
00:10:02
those really sad lesser known moments in this case Jason later says that his intentions after school that day were to
00:10:12
go to the shopping plaza he did not intend on going to the shopping plaza because he knew that Amy was there in
00:10:19
fact he had no idea that she would be there he was going to go there just because so many of the other kids would
00:10:26
go there after school mhm however on his way Jason spotted some boys that were older than him and these boys often
00:10:35
picked on Jason and some of the other kids so seeing these boys Jason decides to go home instead now this is why I say
00:10:45
this is a really sad moment and I know that I can tell from listening to Jason talk about his sister's case and talk
00:10:51
about the events of that day he holds a lot of guilt regarding this decision because there's got to be a small part
00:11:01
of him that wonders and thinks hey had I gone to the shopping plaza that day and
00:11:06
seen my little sister and said you know what are you doing here this whole thing
00:11:11
may have been prevented yeah if Amy was hanging out with her brother maybe this perpetrator wouldn't come up to Amy or
00:11:19
if he did that Jason would have been able to identify this individual yeah and the thing to note here that I think
00:11:26
is very important there's a lot of kids coming from the school going to this shopping center okay and the whoever
00:11:35
this offender is when they approached Amy even though there are a lot of other people around a lot of kids Amy is by
00:11:42
herself at this time right and as you said had the brother been standing right next to her or interacting with her this
00:11:50
person may have thought this is not the opportunity that he was looking for well
00:11:55
and to be clear the other kids are there for for a different agenda they're there
00:12:00
to be at the Basin Robbins or to be hanging out Amy is there which we know cuz she told her friend she is there to
00:12:08
meet somebody yeah and I want to be clear I don't think that Jason has should have any guilt regarding this
00:12:16
decision that he made he made this decision based off of these older boys being real jerks and you know a lot of
00:12:23
us have been there where we've been sidetracked or stepped away from something we wanted to do because people
00:12:29
we don't enjoy being around or people that could be harmful to ourselves are are there so that brings us to about 300
00:12:37
p.m. on the timeline yeah Jason arrives home from school and at this time he calls his mother Margaret she's at work
00:12:45
now it was common for both Amy and Jason to call her once they got home from school Jason tells his mom that Amy is
00:12:53
not at the house now this does raise some alarms for Margaret but just just a few minutes
00:12:59
later after Jason called Amy then called Margaret Margaret assuming Amy was calling from home at the time Amy tells
00:13:08
her mother that she stayed after school for choir auditions later Margaret said Amy seemed off as if she was rushing the
00:13:16
conversation and not her typically talkative self Margaret a little rattled by the
00:13:23
whole situation does decide to leave work a little early that day she packs up her things for the weekend and leaves
00:13:30
work Margaret arrives home pulling into their driveway on Winford Drive sometime
00:13:35
between 4: and 4:30 p.m. Jason is quick to point out to his mother that Amy still has not come home the maternal
00:13:43
Instinct kicks in Margaret rushed to the Middle School the first thing she notices is Amy's bike is still in the
00:13:51
bike rack Margaret tried to get into the school but no luck so she jumped in her
00:13:57
car and drove straight to the police station now we should also note the layout of Bay Village here at this time
00:14:05
in 1989 the middle school is just right down the street from the shopping center
00:14:11
and pretty much right across the street from the shopping center we have the police station so very quickly the she's
00:14:18
able to arrive at the school notices the bike can't get access to the school drives to the police station this stuff
00:14:24
is all happening very quickly once she gets to the police station Amy's mom's going to report her missing right away
00:14:30
the officer that took the report this is Barbara slpi this good officer did not waste
00:14:36
time treating Amy as a runaway which was the standard protocol at the time she believed Margaret and Margaret's fear
00:14:45
and somehow she knew that this was the real deal so a call went out to officers and to surrounding towns this at 5:58
00:14:54
p.m. the call included an incomplete description of Amy but at this time we have officers in Bay Village and
00:15:03
officers in surrounding towns looking for the missing little girl Mark mahalic unaware of the growing storm at the home
00:15:11
front he arrived home from work at 6:30 p.m. to find his family in a panic and Amy gone yeah didn't he work at a car
00:15:19
dealership he worked for Buick at the time and and was more involved than just a singular dealership okay Mark spent
00:15:29
the rest of the evening scouring Bay Village with a friend he drove his car up and down every street this between
00:15:36
his house and Holly Hill Farms which is important to the family because Holly Hill Farms is where Amy would ride
00:15:43
horses this was a big-time hobby of hers he also drove between their home and the
00:15:49
school and Huntington Park and he walked through Ravines in the woods calling his
00:15:55
daughter's name at 11:00 p.m. thanks to the effort eorts of Jean Sabo she was the mother of one of Amy's closest
00:16:03
friends and she was on the PTA at Amy school she took a picture that she had of Amy her school picture to the local
00:16:12
news channels and then they broadcast Amy's picture with her name requesting help or information regarding the
00:16:20
missing little girl Amy was described as 5' 10 in tall and weighing around 90 lb
00:16:26
with shoulder length dark blonde hair we need to get to one very important aspect
00:16:31
about this case and information that we know that could help us find who took Amy now it was not immediate it was not
00:16:40
right away that the authorities learned that there was previous interaction between the abductor and Amy
00:16:48
mahalic what they do learn from talking to Amy's friends so some of her classmates told police that Amy had said
00:16:56
she was going to the shopping center for a gift for her mother with a stranger who claimed to be a friend of the family
00:17:04
now from the local newspaper here I'll read this Amy was last seen Alive by a classmate in the afternoon of October
00:17:11
27th talking to a man outside the Bay Village Square shopping center her classmates told police Amy had said she
00:17:20
was going shopping for a gift for her mother with a stranger who claimed to be a friend of the family a neighbor told
00:17:27
police that Amy had received a telephone call at her home before her disappearance from a man claiming to be
00:17:35
a friend of Amy's mother Margaret mahalic the neighbor said the man told Amy her mother had received a job
00:17:42
promotion and invited the girl on a secret shopping trip to get Mrs mahalic a present Mrs mahalic has said she was
00:17:53
not promoted at her work at the time Margaret mahalic is working at the trading times
00:17:59
this could have been a bit confusing for Amy okay there are there are things in this case where the abductor I believe
00:18:09
got lucky on some things the first being this Amy's mother did not receive a promotion but at some point not too long
00:18:20
before this abduction Margaret went from part-time to full-time now Amy was a very smart young girl girl but I could
00:18:30
see her assuming that that might be a promotion this adding to the credibility of the stranger that's calling on Amy's
00:18:38
behalf you know your mother recently received a promotion this would feel to Amy that maybe this person is who he
00:18:47
says he is he's a friend of my mother's cuz he knew that she is now working full-time yeah so that's a detail that
00:18:53
maybe he just got lucky on or is it a detail that leads somebody to believe that he actually knew the mother correct
00:19:02
yeah that and that's the way that they're going to go with the investigation at that time so when she's
00:19:07
First missing they're talking to all of her friends and people at the school and
00:19:12
people at the shopping center as soon as they find out this detail they being the
00:19:16
authorities find out the detail about the phone call now they're really looking into Margaret mahalic anybody that she
00:19:25
worked with anybody that she knew as well as Mark mahalic same thing people he worked with people that he knew and
00:19:32
really anybody that knew the family or people in the neighborhood this is a very interesting aspect to this case and
00:19:40
I think that this is why one of the reasons why this case has remained somewhat in the spotlight especially for
00:19:48
northeastern Ohio for so many years because of there there are a lot of abductions and a lot of missing persons
00:19:56
cases where somebody just simp simply vanishes and what I mean by that is there's no eyewitnesses there's not much
00:20:02
of a story as to when they were last seen or who they were seen with yeah there's not a story leading up to them
00:20:09
going missing or a story afterwards so here we have not only do we have eyewitnesses who saw a man with Amy at
00:20:17
the shopping center now we have a situation where he was unlucky because Amy didn't keep this a secret she did
00:20:26
tell some of her friends hey I'm meeting a friend and I've received these phone calls now there is some debate if it was
00:20:33
one call or multiple calls or how many calls it would have been personally I believe there was probably more than one
00:20:40
call but one thing that leaves this case and I think intrigues people about this
00:20:46
case is the aspect of the phone call itself this is what you have when you have a case with a little meat on the
00:20:53
bone there's there's something to chew on here there's something to ponder this could be an angle that could lead you to
00:21:01
the right suspect now there were other calls made to other girls this before Amy went missing yeah it's been reported
00:21:09
a whole bunch of different ways that uh there were multiple calls placed to girls that lived in northstead Falls
00:21:16
which is not terribly far from Bay Village but it's not terribly close either through the years I've really
00:21:22
paid attention to the reports about these phone calls because I think personally I think that these calls are
00:21:30
connected to Amy's case right now what I have seen as far as Bay Village Law Enforcement and the FBI is
00:21:38
concerned they have stated on the record that they believe two calls two calls to
00:21:44
two different girls are probably connected to Amy's situation keep in mind this is
00:21:50
1989 it was not uncommon for people to crank call people back then it was not uncommon for pervert s to pick up the
00:21:58
phone and just randomly dial somebody well and also how many girls came forward afterwards saying oh I got a
00:22:05
call but but never received a call possibly but what we do have on record is the law enforcement telling us that
00:22:14
out of all of these people that came forward we believe that two of these are probably connected so not all of them
00:22:21
but probably two of them to which the reason why I think they would know that they were connected is I believe the
00:22:28
caller probably said similar things to these girls to what Amy told her friends was said to her that's your way to
00:22:38
connect these two now in those two situations luckily those two girls decided to hang up on this man and not
00:22:47
meet him somewhere again this goes back to where I think Amy got fooled she got tricked because this guy got lucky your
00:22:56
mom received a promotion we know she went from part-time to full-time I think this was perceived by Amy to be that
00:23:03
promotion that he was talking about so there were other calls made now many years later and and I've followed this
00:23:10
case since 1989 so I'm always very intrigued when I find out some new information it wasn't until last year
00:23:20
and this was through Bill Huffman and through James rener that I learned a small detail about that phone call it
00:23:28
sounds to me like Amy was pretty thorough and pretty detailed when she told these two friends about the phone
00:23:36
calls because she stated we know this little fact here this little detail here right that the caller the man told Amy
00:23:44
that we have4 or $45 to spend on your mother's gift and by the way because you're helping me and you're helping us
00:23:54
out whatever's left over after we purchased the gift gift you can just keep or we'll buy something for you
00:24:01
right so that's an interesting little detail the problem with this case and the problem with the perception of this
00:24:08
case has always been that so many people immediately jump out of their chair and
00:24:13
go well why the hell wouldn't they just law enforcement just figure out who the caller was by the call log to the house
00:24:20
to Amy's house look for the number that doesn't fit or look for all the incoming
00:24:25
calls that were received leading up to her abduction and Trace Trace down those phone numbers to addresses and to
00:24:33
individuals and interview those individuals the problem with that scenario is at the time police's hands
00:24:40
were a bit tied on this and getting you they just couldn't get that type of information what we learn is basically
00:24:50
the the phone records that are kept by the phone companies at that time are very basic right very simple if it's a
00:24:58
longdistance call it is build differently than if it's a local call so therefore the phone company keeps track
00:25:07
of all of the long-distance calls going in and out however they don't keep track
00:25:12
of local calls going in and out because they're not build in that same manner there's no reason for them to keep that
00:25:19
record but what that does tell us is that the call or calls that Amy received came from the same area code
00:25:28
where she lived but an area code is pretty large and probably larger back then covering a larger radius back then
00:25:35
than today yeah true so back then the chief of police for Bay Village was William goo and I'm I'm hoping I say his
00:25:44
name right but in the newspapers he stated that the two calls that they believe could be connected to Amy's case
00:25:52
took place in March and April of 1989 here's an interesting thing to ponder we know that the call to Amy was
00:26:03
local so if law enforcement firmly believed that these two calls out of all the tips they received about other
00:26:11
possible calls if these two calls were connected to Amy's case you damn well better believe that they tried to track
00:26:18
down that information the same way that they tried to track down the phone call information regarding Amy's calls so
00:26:26
what we can gather from that is that wherever these two calls that they believe were connected to Amy's
00:26:32
case were located the individuals that were receive these calls we can figure out from there that those must have been
00:26:39
local calls as well because they were unable to track down the offender based off of that
00:26:47
[Music] information this show is sponsored by better help do you look forward to the holidays maybe
00:27:05
you struggle with seasonal Blues this time of year can be a lot and it's natural to feel some sadness or even
00:27:11
anxiety about it but adding something new and positive to your life can counteract some of those feelings
00:27:17
therapy can be a bright spot something to look forward to to make you feel grounded and to give you the tools to
00:27:25
manage everything going on if you're thinking of starting therapy give better help a try it's entirely online designed
00:27:32
to be convenient flexible and suited to your schedule just fill out a brief questionnaire to get matched with a
00:27:38
licensed therapist and switch therapist at any time for no additional charge find your bright spot this season with
00:27:44
betterhelp visit betterhelp.com garag toay to get 10% off your first month that's better help
00:27:53
hp.com garage explore today's must-have Trends and Innovative Styles at Mrs B's clearance
00:28:02
and outlet shop one-of aind finds in today's must-have Trends explore wall to- wall deals Furniture flooring
00:28:09
mattresses Home Accents seasonal favorites and more discover unique new home decor pillows accessories and more
00:28:16
there's something perfect for your style and budget there's new inventory every day add up to 80% off suggested retail
00:28:23
discover the style and savings of Mrs be's clearance and Outlet Rosetta Stone is the language learning
00:28:31
program with a lasting impact I've been using their appap to learn French and it's not just about memorizing words but
00:28:37
actually having real conversations and it's not just French they offer 25 languages right now Rosetta Stone has an
00:28:44
awesome holiday deal 50% off their lifetime membership every language unlimited access forever for anyone keen
00:28:51
on diving deep into a new language check out rosettastone.com it's a GameChanger
00:28:59
[Music] all right cheers mates let's get back to the Amy mahalic case cheers to you
00:29:14
Captain right right through the glass there on the morning of February 8th 1990 Janet seabold is out enjoying her
00:29:23
daily early morning jog she was maybe a from her house jogging along County Road
00:29:31
1181 in Ashlin County this spot is 46.8 miles from the Bay Village shopping center where Amy was last seen that
00:29:42
morning Janet spotted something maybe 20 ft off the west side of the road mind you for those new to this case this area
00:29:51
is very rural these are large Farmland properties whatever Janet thought it was that she was seeing it was enough to
00:29:59
grab her attention so much so that she stopped jogging and walked toward the object taking very slow steps soon Janet
00:30:07
got close enough to make out that she was looking at the motionless body of a human lying face down in the mud Janet
00:30:16
ran to the nearest home and pounded on the door and Patricia kid opened up the door so when Patricia opens up the door
00:30:25
Janet is on the front porch and is crying uncontrollably what she says is I think I found a body called the police
00:30:33
why did it have to be me that found it yeah I couldn't imagine how devastating that would be especially to find the
00:30:40
body of a child yeah and I believe that Janet was aware of you know judging by the size of what she was looking at she
00:30:48
probably knew that it was a child they did call the police and the police arrived very quickly on the scene the
00:30:55
very sad thing here too is Amy's case was so well known to the public into the surrounding areas that even though this
00:31:04
little area this Farmland Community that's 48 mil away from where she was last seen the local authorities there
00:31:14
were aware of a missing girl and actually they were looking for a potential body in different locations of
00:31:22
their County leading up to this so when they get this call it's kind of one of those situations where they're
00:31:29
like [ __ ] we might know without even being there what we're actually responding
00:31:36
to and everybody's looking for this little girl and we may have found her dead in our County and they were able to
00:31:44
confirm that probably very quickly on site but they confirmed it through dental records later that day so it was
00:31:53
confirmed that what everyone suspected they had found the body that belonged to Amy mahalic does the autopsy give us any
00:32:02
clues or any information it does give us some information I'm going to read from
00:32:08
Emily Thompson's book unsolved Child Murders she has a chapter in there on Amy mahalic and it reads the pathologist
00:32:16
had even more disturbing news for Margaret and Mark mahalic not only did he confirm that Amy had been murdered
00:32:23
but she had been brutally stabbed in the neck three times and blood Legend over the head with a heavy object it was a
00:32:30
violent death for a young child now the autopsy report was never released to the
00:32:35
public but this author Emily states that she was able in her research to obtain a
00:32:42
copy from the Ashlin County coroner's office and she goes on to say that when Amy's body was found she was fully
00:32:50
clothed except for her shoes her genitalia showed no signs of trauma however a spot of blood was discovered
00:32:58
in her underwear the stab wounds to the neck had severed the cored artery leading to her death there was also a
00:33:06
postmortem stab wound to her chest disturbingly her nails were irregularly broken suggesting that she had attempted
00:33:15
to defend herself from the man who had so brutally killed her her body was in an advanc state of decomposition
00:33:23
indicating that she had been dead for several months so most likely she was killed closer to the abduction date than
00:33:30
the date that she was found yes that's the way that it would appear judging by those statements in uh Emily Thompson's
00:33:38
book I do want to further that information a little bit because James rener has said that he was able to see
00:33:47
the autopsy report and I I can't remember if he had to go through from memory later when he spoke about it or
00:33:55
if he was able to take notes because you've seen Captain you've seen zodiac remember when Robert Grey Smith is is
00:34:03
trying to see some of the case File from one of the murders in the in the Zodiac
00:34:07
murders yeah and they're like yeah we'll let you look at it but you got to go in
00:34:11
there with nothing you know we can't have you um jotting this stuff down or making copies or anything like that you
00:34:19
got you can go in there and take a a quick look at it and you're going to have to remember whatever you see or
00:34:24
read that's actually more common than than people think yeah so rener has said publicly I believe it was on his website
00:34:34
he stated that you know this was a big moment for him because it was a big battle for him to win to see this
00:34:42
autopsy report it was something he was trying to view for quite some time before he was actually allowed to look
00:34:48
at it after viewing it he did say you know there are things in there that I'm just going to keep to myself and I have
00:34:58
absolutely zero problem with that we have covered cases where they are open cases and we've come across some
00:35:05
information or seen some things and had to make the decision it's in the best interest of the investigation of the
00:35:13
open investigation that some of this information is not widely known isn't public right but it still makes you
00:35:21
curious when you hear something like that especially with a guy like James rener that is so open about his
00:35:29
investigations on cases well and especially this case yeah you know maybe um brutally honest we should say when it
00:35:38
comes to Amy's case and I think that's just because he he like so many of the rest of us this is an important case to
00:35:45
to him personally and he like so many of us want to see this thing solved I want
00:35:51
to go into some things here because there's always been the question of was Amy sexually assault Ed and from the
00:35:58
statement that we just read you can't really gather it doesn't sound like she was raped and and I I'm sorry to use
00:36:06
these these terrible words and descriptions but this is where we are yeah there are indications that there
00:36:13
was some form of sexual assault one being that when they found her remember that she is fully clothed
00:36:21
and I just used uh air quotes there but the underwear that she was wearing when she was found was inside out now this
00:36:30
could have just been happen stance could have just been an accident or whatever but law enforcement believes that this
00:36:37
is an indication that she may have been redressed at some point and then we further that with what Emily Thompson
00:36:44
says in her book about there being blood inside the underwear Amy's blood well the
00:36:52
injuries that occurred that led to her death very likely would not have placed blood
00:36:59
inside the underwear so it's another indication that at some point during whatever assault
00:37:07
occurred that she was in a state of undress or partially undressed and to further that thought I
00:37:17
have never in all my years of following this case I've never heard an investigator say anything other than the
00:37:25
following we can't think of any other reason why somebody would have taken her when when
00:37:31
asked specifically was she sexually assaulted or raped they said we can't there there's things to indicate that we
00:37:39
can't prove it we can't say 100% but we believe some type of assault happened based off of the information we can see
00:37:46
but furthermore we can't find any other motivation for the abduction in the first place and we've talked about it
00:37:53
before it's sad that we live in a world that we we can walk down the street zero
00:38:00
motive if we don't have money on us or if somebody doesn't dislike us but females walk around with a motive on
00:38:08
them 24/7 with all these creepos out there and and so yeah I mean it doesn't make
00:38:15
any sense why somebody would take her again unless you go with the angle that this person was actually close to the
00:38:24
family and it's some kind of Revenge for some reason but if they don't have any evidence that are
00:38:32
pointing them into the direction of somebody that actually knew the family or somebody that was mad at the family
00:38:39
the mother or father then what other motive would there be mhm and if you believe that the other two phone calls
00:38:47
to the other girls are in fact connected we can't say 100% right but if you believe those to be connected then that
00:38:55
takes away from r as well well just even if there's just one call that's connected mhm you know
00:39:03
um it's difficult though too because there's no trauma in that area but you could have a situation where you know
00:39:12
it's a stretch but you know there's medical conditions like micr penises and things like that that might not actually
00:39:18
leave trauma well and the other thing that you have to wonder I mean it was 100 days 100 or so days after the
00:39:27
abduction that the B's found so we have months of decomposition going on what is
00:39:34
lost through that time remember we talked about when we watched the Adnan Sayed uh special on HBO they titled one
00:39:41
of them time is the killer yeah again we have a situation here time is the killer
00:39:47
in this case because it's the killer of evidence that could have been on or around her body all this decomposition
00:39:55
takes place again this is another situation where I really feel that this offender is not like super sophisticated
00:40:03
this is not a handable Lector type where he's just so much more brilliant than the law law enforcement officers and
00:40:10
investigators working the case this is another situation where I believe that he again got lucky that I believe that
00:40:19
this body there there is reason to believe that the body was very likely there for quite some time and I mean in
00:40:27
the field and the thing that we also should point out here too is there has never been an investigator who has
00:40:34
visited that dump site that recovered her body that day that has said we believe she was killed here everybody
00:40:41
has always said the amount of blood the amount of of blood from that attack she had to have been killed elsewhere and
00:40:50
then later transported to that location now rener as well as some others have stated that there was a a sapling or
00:41:00
some type of plant growth that had grown through one of the articles of clothing
00:41:06
that Amy was wearing they can't say for certain how long it would have taken that that plant
00:41:13
growth to protrude and go through the clothing but what they can say is that is an indication that she was in that
00:41:21
field for a long time before being discovered now what's Your Gut Feeling like if you had to give it a percentage
00:41:28
of motive do you have a percentage of what you think it was you know the motive being rape oh the to me 100% I I
00:41:37
cannot I agree I it's and even if even if the guy doing some kind of sexual assault it it's rape that's what it is
00:41:46
this idea of you know whatever happened even if there wasn't penetration or whatever that it's it's it's rape that's
00:41:54
what it is and and and the amount of fear that she had to go through is I mean it's horrible to think of from
00:42:01
Emily Thompson's book The the broken fingernails Amy's broken fingernails pointing out that she defended
00:42:08
herself I I've always believed that she fought back and I've always believed that the motivation for the abduction
00:42:16
was sexual in nature I don't I don't where I have a break in the case in the motive of the offender is
00:42:27
I I'm unable to determine or to decide if the killer if the abductor knew in advance that he was going to kill the
00:42:35
victim I've always kind of believed that the motivation was sexual and that the killing may have happened because she
00:42:43
fought back and that maybe that was not the intention of the abductor now obviously we will never know that until
00:42:53
this offender is apprehended and if they choose to tell us what their motives and
00:42:58
motivations were but that's always been my thought 100% this was a sexually motivated crime the other thing that
00:43:06
comes into question here is not only how long was the body in the field but how long was Amy kept alive if in fact the
00:43:16
motivation for the abduction was sexual in nature and this offender went to all of these high-risk activities to to
00:43:26
abduct her it's thought that he would want to have spent some time with her so one
00:43:34
thing that we should point out based off of the autopsy information is that at some point Amy consumed what is I
00:43:44
believe it's listed as a soy based protein product now that doesn't tell us exactly what she consumed obviously
00:43:52
right and again that might lead towards some of the composition that took place but there's been a lot of speculation on
00:44:00
this of what it could have been that she could have consumed the people that think that she
00:44:06
may have been killed very quickly after the abduction they point to the fact that she did have lunch at school that
00:44:14
day and according to renner's book it was spaghetti there have been other people that have suggested that this
00:44:21
type of product that we found we find this to be very similar to to what you might find on pepperoni pizza and if
00:44:31
that's the case then she consumed another meal after the abduction as far as we know other people have pointed out
00:44:39
that it could have been from something like Chinese food so there there's a lot of thought there and a lot of
00:44:45
speculation on how long she was alive and captive but we have a pretty good idea of what she left school with like
00:44:56
what she was wearing very good very descriptive I mean from everything to her outfit to her jacket to her book bag
00:45:04
uh some of the contents of her book bag the type of shoes she was wearing she was wearing writing boots as well as the
00:45:11
earrings that she was wearing that is a huge factor in this case and I've actually always believed
00:45:18
that this would be what would find and hang the killer okay because some of these items that she left her home with
00:45:27
that day the day she was taken some of these items have never been they weren't recovered with her body and they've
00:45:34
never been found since then so let's go through that again real quick she was wearing
00:45:42
a to to simplify it she was wearing a green jogging outfit a white nylon jacket and black ankle boots uh these
00:45:50
are decorated boots with silver studs and she had on those turquoise earrings these these earrings are shaped like a
00:45:58
HSE head uh she was also carrying a black leather folder decorated with the Buick three Chevron logo with the words
00:46:07
best inclass embroidered on the front so what we need to point out here where I said earlier she was found fully clothed
00:46:16
and I and I said I'm using air quotes there what was not found is her white nylon jacket her book bag the earring
00:46:26
the writing boots and the folder the Buick folder those items were never found now what is interesting I think it
00:46:35
was in 1997 it was years years after the abduction in the murder of Amy mahalic until they released that information you
00:46:47
know they knew at the time these items are all missing the killer either kept them on purpose or kept them on accident
00:46:55
or they they were discarded of Elsewhere so the boots are missing and the earrings are missing boots earrings
00:47:02
folder book bag uh and the nylon jacket so when the when the police and FBI present this
00:47:13
information to the public they come out and they say look these earrings were missing this folder was missing the
00:47:21
boots are missing what they purposely left out was the nylon jacket and the book bag right and it was it was Bill
00:47:31
Huffman that asked the chief of police the current chief of police why did you not include that back in if it was 97
00:47:39
back in 97 When You released that information to the public and spel says that that's for
00:47:45
good reason you don't want to muddy the waters too much here because the nylon jacket that she was wearing is super
00:47:52
common there's thousands of them the book bag that is missing it's very again common there's thousands of them it's
00:48:00
not unique it's not specific to Amy what is unique and specific to Amy are these
00:48:09
earrings these are like almost one of A- kind earrings the boots they're riding boots uh anybody that rides horses they
00:48:17
know that there's there are commonly made boots mass-produced boots and then there are there are also some boots that
00:48:24
are not common that are one-offs that are made special these this would be a a very uncommon
00:48:32
item especially for a young girl you would expect most to be wearing you know tennis shoes right but this makes me
00:48:39
think that the person that took her knew that these items were indicators and what I mean by that
00:48:48
is maybe they worked at the place that she took writing lessons and so by taking these items items away maybe they
00:48:57
would not know that she was wearing them that day but if if she was seen with that that maybe that would be a clue to
00:49:05
lead them back to somebody does that make sense Yeah well yeah and the other thing too that was missing is that black
00:49:12
leather folder decorated with the Buick three Chevron logo and the words best in
00:49:17
class right this is embroidered this is not you know Trapper Keeper this is not go to to Kroger or
00:49:26
to CVS and pick up just any general folder for my child to take to school right this is a very specific very
00:49:33
unique folder this was actually something that was made by Buick remember Mark is employed by Buick at
00:49:41
the time this is something he received at work there's not a lot of them it's awfully fancy and he gives it to his
00:49:49
daughter to use for school so the thing that the police pointed out when they come out with this news
00:49:56
conference is they say everyone out there look at these items look at the earrings look at the writing boots look
00:50:05
at the black folder any of these items if you know someone that has one two or all three of
00:50:13
these items we want to talk to you because we want to talk to them that was something that I I
00:50:20
personally thought at the time when they came out with that that information I thought
00:50:26
it might not be long it might not be long until they find out who killed Amy but these items are obviously items that
00:50:33
are easily to discard but you also just wonder with the weird connection with this case if if this person was obsessed
00:50:45
with Amy on some level that you would I would assume that they would keep these items at least a few of them or yeah or
00:50:54
maybe even just one it's not terribly uncommon one for particularly serial killers and I don't
00:51:01
know that we are dealing with a serial killer here it could be some type of Serial
00:51:07
offender but it's not uncommon for them to keep trophies or ways of remembering their victim or
00:51:15
victims so that's one possibility that that the Killer is actually you know with with thought and
00:51:23
effort hanging on to these items that is a possibility and like you said it's also a possibility that they
00:51:31
transported the body and then just discarded of these items simply by throwing them in the trash right and
00:51:38
maybe they also thought that this would be a way to identify her faster yeah and the thing too is see
00:51:47
that I thought about that for a long time and question that myself I really think that I don't see any effort made
00:51:54
on behalf of the killer to to slow down identifying the body of being that of Amy mahalic you know we don't have
00:52:02
fingers removed the head removed we don't have the body being buried right but we have a long period of
00:52:13
decomposition so you wonder if she was somewhere else he let her sit there long enough so the decomposition process is
00:52:22
further along and then he discards of her right but it I mean it was no trouble to
00:52:28
identify it the body as being hers right right fair enough personally I I think that if there was if what they were
00:52:36
worried about her being identified as Amy mahalic as the victim that he abducted if that was truly what they
00:52:45
were worried about I think that this individual would have buried her somewhere and
00:52:50
unfortunately well fortunately he did not because unfortunately had he done that there's a chance she
00:52:57
may have never been found and then that's a whole new set of problems and issues for the case the
00:53:05
other thing too that I I should point out is and I think this is a big reason why not only do you know anybody that
00:53:13
has these items that were missing from Amy not only does that mean the killer but could the killer have give given any
00:53:21
of these items away right you know when we talked about the River Killer Gary Ridgeway he he'd get these victims he
00:53:30
would take jewelry or other small items from them and he would sell them at his garage sales or give them to co-workers
00:53:37
or to his wife and say hey I bought you something or hey I found something for you well and we both believe that these
00:53:44
are sexually motivated it's a sexually motivated crime and we both believe that this perpetrator would not stop trying
00:53:52
to M to commit these sexual crimes to molest or rape young females so these could be gifts as part of the grooming
00:54:04
process mhm uh to other victims yeah I don't know how many times this offender has offended let's say but um I don't
00:54:14
believe this was his first attempt at doing so Amy was not his first attempt at doing so and if in fact he did not
00:54:22
intend to kill her and it went that way it went very wrong for him there is a chance be a very very small chance in my
00:54:31
opinion yeah that it was enough to scare him off of this for good but I I don't think that that's the situation I think
00:54:39
this individual probably attempted to offend again but making sure that they that murder wouldn't be the end result
00:54:48
so that is what was not found but there was an update about what was found at at
00:54:55
the place that she was uh left okay so this update took place June 23rd in 2016 I know you and I spoke about this
00:55:07
on mic somewhere right did we do that on off the record I believe so okay so let's go through this real quick on June
00:55:15
23rd 2016 Bay Village Police Chief Mark spel kyoga County prosecutor Tim McGinty
00:55:24
and FBI Agent Phil tney held a a press conference in which they presented neverbe seen evidence in hopes that it
00:55:33
could refresh someone's memory the evidence was a handmade curtain and blanket that had been discovered near
00:55:40
Amy's body when the items were tested for DNA or fingerprints canine hairs that matched Amy's dog Jake were found
00:55:50
on both items indicating that his hair the dog's hair had been transferred from Amy's clothing to the curtain and
00:55:58
blanket when Amy was found she had not been draped in either item leading investigators to believe that the
00:56:05
curtain and blanket had most likely come from the location where she was murdered
00:56:11
it is theorized that she may have been wrapped in them to conceal her body while her killer transported her to
00:56:18
County Road 1181 identifying the curtain and blanket could lead investigators to the scene
00:56:25
where she was killed at the same press conference it was also revealed that the reward fund for any information leading
00:56:32
to the arrest of Amy killer was now up to $50,000 now I think when we spoke on record or off the Record or wherever it
00:56:42
was yeah that I I expressed some anger and disappointment to the investigators and the investigation of Amy's abduction
00:56:54
and murder and I said that because I I was I was frustrated at the time I was happy to
00:57:00
learn about the new information but I was frustrated to learn that 26 years later hey does anybody know where this
00:57:08
curtain came from or this blanket came from because we now we we believe it's connected to her murder yeah and the
00:57:16
fact that they they were customade yes these are handmade items to me they actually look like they were an item
00:57:23
that served a purpose at one time and were uh repurposed repurposed reconfigured in a way to serve a
00:57:31
different purpose later and yes very likely if if they found uh hairs Amy's dogs hair on these items then they are
00:57:42
connected to Amy they are connected to her murder I do want to clear something up and this adds to the defense of law
00:57:51
enforcement and not to my own defense but I lat yeah screw you yeah screw you nick uh I later learned that the reason
00:58:00
why they waited so long to release this information is that for many many many of those years I don't know how long but
00:58:09
for a good majority of that time they did not know that they were connected to Amy right they were just found close to
00:58:18
her they were found close to her she wasn't found wrapped up in these items it wasn't obvious that they were
00:58:24
connected to her it was only through finding those hairs on these items that they were in fact connected to her and
00:58:31
to her case so but but that tells us something right because it tells us a lot but I I want to I kind want to go
00:58:38
through this just real quick before you jump in with that idea later when I was reviewing some of my stuff that I've
00:58:44
collected over the years on Amy's case I found newspaper clippings where the investigators that
00:58:52
responded to the call about the body being found in the field you can see pictures of them in the newspaper where
00:58:59
they are carrying trash bags full of items so again this is not through a lack of
00:59:07
effort on anyone's part in the investigation so I'm kind of slapping myself here for expressing some anger
00:59:14
toward that notion what they did was they collected just about any item that they found
00:59:20
within a half mile radius of her body this would have been every from PE you know from terrible worthless people that
00:59:29
throw trash out their car windows to cigarette butts beer cans beer bottles anything that was just flying around
00:59:38
flapping in the wind blowing around in that field out there they collected all of those items and the way that it works
00:59:45
is back then keep in mind this is ' 89 this is 1990 they can only they would had to send items off to the FBI for
00:59:53
testing and the FBI of course they're not the this is in its infancy this kind of Technology the FBI is saying you
01:00:02
can't send us a whole U-Haul truckload full of trash bags full of stuff that you found at the scene right we can't
01:00:09
test all that stuff send us what you think is connected first we'll test that we will come back to you with the
01:00:16
results then later you can send us some more and you can send us some more I actually I have heard this I obviously
01:00:24
obviously don't know if it's true or not but I believe that the curtain and or the blanket may have been found anywhere
01:00:32
from 100 ft to 100 yards away from her body so if if you just take the most simplest idea of investigating and
01:00:42
deducing what items are more likely to be connected to Amy than items that are less likely to be connected to her body
01:00:50
you start with the stuff that you find closest to her so you know I I'm just kind of I wanted to
01:00:56
to throw that out there to admit that I was wrong admit that I was wrong there I don't
01:01:04
know she had to be transported somehow and and that could have just been the murderer carrying
01:01:13
her but but back to my point there's not much there would be no sign of blood on
01:01:21
these curtains correct it does not appear to be that way and they've never stated so
01:01:27
if they did find blood on them or anything they thought to be blood they probably would have these items would
01:01:34
have been sent much earlier for testing so what this can tell us is okay the what we actually know here 100% is Amy's
01:01:47
body and or clothing came in contact with these two items at some point so she was either had either laid on them
01:01:56
been wrapped in them or concealed in them or all three at some point during the course in which she was held before
01:02:04
the body is placed in that field the thing is with there being no blood on it it it would Point more
01:02:13
towards that these items while they may have been in the general vicinity of where she was attacked and killed these
01:02:20
items likely were not applied to her body or clothing until the bleeding had stopped right to put it as you know
01:02:29
plain and simple as we can yeah or so I think it's it's likely that these two items were used for one or two
01:02:37
purposes one transporting the body and maybe concealing the body in the field because keep in mind if she
01:02:46
was out there for close to 100 days or about 100 days that body was not spotted by
01:02:56
anybody so these items are very makes me wonder because it it is a pretty open field at that point it it makes me
01:03:05
wonder I if if people actually saw this when they're driving by and they just didn't stop because it didn't look like
01:03:11
anything recognizable at the time or or or if she just wasn't out there that long well that's something
01:03:20
that we can really dive into uh in the next part here but that that is a good question that's something interesting to
01:03:28
think [Music] of and for our old episodes and off the Record episodes check out the Stitcher
01:03:44
app you can also find our show off the Record if you go to True Crime garage.com and click on the off the
01:03:50
reccord link and until tomorrow be good be kind don't let screw you [Music] now explore today's must have Trends in
01:04:23
innovative Styles at Mrs B's clearance and outlet shop one-of aind finds in today's musthave Trends explore wall
01:04:30
to--all deals Furniture flooring mattresses Home Accents seasonal favorites and more discover unique new
01:04:37
home decor pillows accessories and more there's something perfect for your style
01:04:41
and budget there's new inventory every day at up to 80% off suggested retail discover the style and savings of Mrs
01:04:48
be's clearance and Outlet