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Heat. [Music] Heat. [Music] [Applause] Welcome to True Crime Garage. Wherever you are, whatever you are doing, thanks
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for listening. I'm your host, Nick, and with me is a man that I know can fake sing better than Mariah Carey. He is the
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captain. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. It's good to be seen and it's good to see you and all all of our listeners.
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You're giving me emotions deeper than I ever dreamed of. And I'm very pleased to
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announce that today in the garage, we have a very special guest helping us with this episode, the great Mariah
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Carey. And to make her feel more at home, we have turned off her mic. Today, Captain, we are drinking Redacted
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Rye IPA by Renegade Brewing Company in beautiful Denver, Colorado. Garage Grade four out of five bottle caps. Redacted
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is a rye IPA that is loaded with rye. Something here is a rye. This Reneg This is Renegade's flagship beer.
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>> I'm glad you're cracking yourself up today. >> It was a joke that I forgot that I
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wrote. Uh, this Reneg This is Renegade's flagship beer. It has citrusy hops and spicy rye, which is a fantastic combo.
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And redacted is truly one-of-a-kind. And this week's beer is brought to us by these truly one-of-a-kind garage goers.
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We have first we have a big shout out to Larry and Renee from Denver. Captain, I
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am friends with Larry and Renee on Untapped, and they are loyal listeners, and they both work for brewery. So, I
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want you to play extra nice with Larry and Renee. So, a big shout out to them, and thank you for the beer, guys.
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>> Like your team. Next up, we have Rob Mack in Alberta, Canada. We also have Al
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from Walke, Iowa. Next up, we have Roger the Kitty Cat from California. And we'll stay in Cali and say hi to
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Lesie in San Diego and Edna in LA. And last but not least, we have Jennifer from Luxembourg, Wisconsin. Jennifer
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says, "Try some spotted cow and please, please do a Wisconsin case." Yes. And yes, Jennifer, we will do both.
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Jennifer, >> spotted cow. >> Yeah. And I tell you what, Jennifer, you're actually in for a little bit of
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luck here today. While today's case does take place in Minnesota, uh there is a piece of this case that will take us to
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Wisconsin. So, thank you to everybody for chipping into this week's beer fund. And if you want to buy us around for
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next week's show, go to true crimegar.com and click on the donate button. And like
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always, we like your jib. Make sure you follow us on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Untapped. Big shout out to
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and thank you to Aurelia for doing the uh helping us with the Facebook stuff >> and a big happy new year to everybody.
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>> We like your jam. All right, gather around, grab a chair, grab a beer, and let's talk some true crime.
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[Music] [Music] This past Sunday night, 9:00, did you know where your kids were in St. Joseph,
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Minnesota? The Wetling family thought they did, but their 11-year-old son on his way back from a nearby convenience
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store was abducted by a mass gunman. For four days, a massive search has been underway. Tonight, our David Lee Miller
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reports on that terrible crime that has brought terror to the country's heartland.
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>> St. Joseph, Minnesota is the type of town where folks don't bother to lock the front door. A 2-hour drive north of
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Minneapolis St. fall here. The police chief doesn't even carry a gun. But now everything is different. Sunday night,
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just outside of town, 11-year-old Jacob Wetling was abducted by a masked man with a gun. It is a crime that will
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forever change this community and one that has terrorized Jacob's parents. >> This shouldn't happen anywhere. It's the
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type of It shouldn't happen anywhere. All I could think of was who who would take a child away from their parents?
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Like I couldn't fathom it. >> It is total shock, total disbelief. Even uh in in talking with the uh
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sheriff's department here, uh it's it's seem to be as almost as amazed as amazed
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as we are. >> We've taught him that people are good. We've worked for peace all our lives and
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this is a real violent act. I don't understand it. He's bright. He's got a real clever
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sense of humor and quick mind. He's very um he's he plays goalie. He's he's cool
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under pressure. He's all these things give me hope that if there's an opportunity, this boy will be
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home. >> Is he a survivor? >> He's a survivor. Jacob's disappearance is especially
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shocking because he was with his 10-year-old brother, Trevor, and an 11-year-old friend, Aaron Larson, when
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the abduction took place. According to the boys, they had just leased a videotape from this convenience store
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and were walking their bicycles down this road when suddenly a masked gunman appeared out of nowhere. We were coming
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down this road here and we were just talking and everything and then this guy just came out and he had a gun and it
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didn't it I thought it was some kid pulling a prank on us or something and then he but it wasn't. Then he told he
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looked at Trevor and he told Trevor to turn off his flashlight and then he told us he had a gun and he told us to turn
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around and go over into this ditch and put our bikes in there and lay down. Then he came over and he he um asked us
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all our ages and then he he told Trevor to run as fast as he could into the woods or else he'd shoot. Then he looked
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at me and then he grabbed Jacob and he told me to run as fast as I could in the woods or he'd shoot.
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>> What did this man look like? >> Well, he was wearing he was all in black. He had a mask on. And
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>> you couldn't see his face? >> Uh-uh. He had he had a nylon mask or some kind of mask. Did Jacob say
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anything to the man? >> Uh-uh. Just just his age. >> When you ran, did you look back?
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>> Yeah. Once we got way down there. >> What did you see? >> Nothing. No, he wasn't there anymore.
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>> Here at the county communication center, authorities have received more than 300
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tips. And while so far nothing has panned out, they continued to be optimistic. Jacob will soon return home.
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an awful lot just depends on the type of person that we're dealing with that uh that abducted the boy. Uh some of them
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keep him around for quite a while, some of them don't. Uh so we're hoping that this type of person is going to uh keep
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Jacob alive and uh somewhere along the line that he's going to get a chance to get to a telephone or get away from him.
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Despite a massive effort in the air and on the ground, police have few clues and
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don't even know what type of car Jacob's abductor used to flee the scene. Residents are understandably terrified
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and say children here in St. Joseph have lost a part of their youth. >> I know my little boy. He's five and he
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won't go outside. yesterday didn't want to go out and play and he was up last night and it's, you know, it's scary for
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the kids, anybody really. >> The sheriff's department, meanwhile, has established this command center to
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coordinate assistance from state investigators and the FBI. But despite all the manpower, authorities do not
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know why the boy was taken. So far, there has not been a demand for ransom, and the family has never received any
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type of threat. Dr. Wedling is a chiropractor in town who in this predominantly white middle-class
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community heads up the local chapter of the NAACP. They are kind, gentle, caring people who
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want nothing more than the return of their son. Can you think of any reason anyone would want to harm your family or
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your son? >> No. >> Nothing. >> I would only say that we really want Jacob back for Jacob's sake, for our
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sake, and for everyone's sake. Please give him back to us. There are so many people praying that if
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I were God, I would bring Jacob home safely very soon. >> Tonight, the Wetlings are asking for
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your help in locating Jacob. In a moment, we'll give out a special phone number, but first, here's the FBI
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profile of Jacob's abductor. They believe he's a white male between 25 and 35 years of age and may have attempted a
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similar but unsuccessful abduction in the recent past. Anyone who may have any information about Jacob's abduction is
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asked to call the Sheriff's Department task force at 612259-3981. There is a $25,000 reward for
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information leading to his safe return. All tips will be kept confidential and you can call collect. Once again, the
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number 6122593981. [Music] My hope this is one story that's going to have a happy ending. some fingers.
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[Music] [Music] Back in August, we covered the case of Joshua Gemand. Now, it's not absolutely
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necessary to listen to that episode before this one, but if you haven't already, you might want to check that
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out. That's episode number 47. Anyway, the disappearance of Joshua and the disappearance of Jacob Wetling and
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because of the close proximity to one another and some had suspected that maybe the two disappearances were
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connected. So, when we covered the Joshua Geman case, we received a lot of requests to cover the Jacob Wetling
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case. Most of the time our cases are mapped out, you know, well in advance, so we didn't get to it. Uh shortly after
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this, there were all kinds of developments in the Jacob case. Now, Jacob's case never ever really left the
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news. It is arguably one of the most famous child abduction cases ever. So now there is this really big case and
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it's really heating up in the news again. So I thought with it being in the news that much that everybody would not
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be interested in us covering it. But then in late October, we covered the Johnny Gosh case. This is an abduction.
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Uh the boy was never seen again. Young teenage boy that was abducted. And in this case, we made reference to the
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Jacob Wetling case. And once again, we received a lot of feedback from the True Crime Garage Army again with request for
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us to cover this case. So here we are, Captain covering the Jacob Wetling case. >> Mhm. I'm here too.
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>> So today's case takes us to St. Joseph, Minnesota. Uh, and this is back in October 22nd, 1989, which is a Sunday
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evening. Jerry and Patty Wetling are out at a dinner party about 25 to 30 minute
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drive from their home. At home is their 11-year-old son, Jacob Wedling, his 10-year-old brother, Trevor, their
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8-year-old sister, Carmen, and their friend Aaron Larson, who is 11 years of age as well. This case really takes me
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back, though. I you know I hate to date myself here, Captain, but but Jacob is pretty close in age to you and I.
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>> Uh >> well, now you're dating me. Thanks a lot. >> Well, Captain, he was a little older
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than us, but we like Jacob, his siblings, and his friend Aaron were all children of the8s. I I love the '8s. I
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mean, I was so young back then that everything seems very innocent looking back now. But you know, remember when
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your parents would go out and they would leave you home alone or even where there
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is someone there to watch you, a babysitter or maybe a relative. Parents left a phone number. They would write it
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down on a piece of paper and leave it on the countertop or by the phone and say,
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"This is where we will be. This is the number for the restaurant or this is the phone number for our friend's house. If
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you need anything, call us at this number." You know, and then you would also get the list of rules read to you,
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you know, like uh you are not to leave the house, no fighting with your brother or sister, no food on the nice
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furniture, >> don't wear underwear on your head. >> Well, this is exactly what Jerry and
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Patty Wetling did before they went out to their dinner party. >> Well, sure enough, the kids come up with
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a great idea and so they are going to call and ask mom and dad if they could go out for a bit. Their friend Aaron is
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going to stay the night that night. there was to be no school the next day. So, they called because they want to go
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to the Tom Thumb store down the street. >> Mhm. >> Now, for those of you too young to know
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this, back in the day, grocery stores and convenience stores did the greatest thing. Some of them would rent movies or
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even video games. And of course, this portion of the store is always the danger zone for parents because there's
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no way you're going to walk through that that aisle without uh the child begging
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to take home a movie or a video game. Yeah, I mean this is time before cell phones and being able to access anything
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at your fingertips. >> So Trevor calls the dinner party, interrupts the dinner party, and he asks
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to speak with his mother, and he's going 10-year-old. >> Yeah. He's going to ask if they can go
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down to the Tom Tom Thumb store to pick up a movie. Now, the mom says no. Patty says, "No, it's too late. It's it's
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after dark. Um this is not a trip that you should be making after dark." And uh you know, Trevor says, "Well, let me
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speak to dad." You know, the the old uh everybody's done that bit, right? Right.
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>> And um I think my household, dad was always a little easier to get to say yes
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than mom. So, I can certainly identify with Trevor here. He talks to his father and um Jerry agrees to let the boys go
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to the Tom Thumb store. >> Uh he seems to be more concerned about it being dark rather than anything
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nefarious happening to them. Uh but uh so they they equip themselves with um you know bright clothing and uh a
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flashlight and they've already mapped out the perfect plan. They have their sister at home, their little sister, who
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does not want to go to the store with them. And probably, you know, the older boys don't want the little sister
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tagging along anyway. So they've already made arrangements to have their neighbor
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uh girl, her name is Relle, she's 14 years old. She's going to come over and babysit their little sister Carmen while
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they will head down to the store to retrieve their movie. So, the three boys set out for the Tom Thumb store. Two of
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them on bikes and one on a scooter. This is just before 9:00 p.m., so it's dark out. And this is a country road, so no
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street lights. Probably the only lights you're going to see would be those from the houses, you know, the house lights
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and lights near the Tom Thumb store. I wonder if the older boys made the little kid do the scooter.
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>> Uh I I think Trevor may have been on the scooter. Yes. >> Yeah. You know what I mean? Like it's
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like >> little man on the totem pole gets the scooter. >> Yeah. You're lucky to be hanging out
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with us. >> Yeah. So, uh they go to the store, they rent a movie, The Naked Gun. Um and
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>> good movie. >> They are returning for home and this is right around 9:15 p.m. when they are
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startled when they see a man. This man, he is dressed in dark clothing and he has some some kind of face mask or or
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something over his covering his face and he is armed with a handgun and he kind of just pops up and appears out of
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nowhere. They're not really for sure where this man came from. The man tells the boys to stop. He then
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tells Trevor to turn off the flashlight that he is carrying. He has the boys push the bikes and the scooter in the
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roadside ditch. He tells them to lie down face down in the ditch. He asks Trevor his age to which Trevor replies
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10. The man then asks Aaron his age. Aaron says 11. >> Yeah. >> And then he asks Jacob his age and Jacob
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says 11. He tells Trevor to get up and run to the woods, but don't look back or he's going to shoot.
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>> Yeah. >> Then he kind of lifts up each of the two remaining boys heads one at a time to
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get a look at their faces. He grabs Aaron's crotch and then tells Aaron to run to the woods and don't look back or
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I'll shoot. Then the man grabs Jacob by the arm, lifting him up a bit and drags him away.
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>> Yeah. And the sexual assault onto Aaron was not reported originally. >> Yeah. And what So now the two the two
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boys have run to the woods and Aaron will eventually catch up to uh the younger boy Trevor.
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>> Mhm. And by this time, the boys are in the woods and they look back, but they
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they don't see the man. And more importantly to them, their brother, their friend Jacob is gone as well. And
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this is just gone without a trace. They don't see they don't see anything. >> Yeah. They don't see a vehicle.
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>> By this point, the boys are only a couple blocks from their home, from the Wetling home. As I understand it to be,
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this is a simple trip. It's really just like one country road and you know a turn here or there. Uh the Wetling House
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down to the Tom Thumb store is pretty much a straight shot. So Trevor and Aaron, they run to the Wetling house.
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Once there, they tell the babysitter Relle what just happened and she calls her father. Then the the father calls
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911 >> and he even puts Trevor on the phone to tell his account of what had just
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happened. The babysitter's father then calls Jerry and Patty Wetling and tells them that two of the boys came home and
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Jacob has been taken and is still not home and he has notified the police. The Wetlings, of course, leave the dinner
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party immediately. Now, we said that a 911 call was placed and the receiving on the receiving end
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of this call is the Steer County Sheriff's Department. >> Yeah. By the babysitter's dad, Merl.
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>> Correct. and the sheriff's department is on the scene within minutes. This is all
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happening very, very quickly. The report comes in quickly. The sheriff's department responds very quickly. The
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sheriff's department, they arrive and they see the bikes in the ditch and they start searching the area for Jacob. They
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search the woods as well. And they're searching that night and in the early morning hours, this is like around 3:00
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a.m., they decide to call off the search. you know, they're they are searching in the dark um in in a very
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dark location and hunting for clues. You know, if they can't immediately find the
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boy, at some point you wonder how much you're trampling over the crime scene if you're losing any evidence or if you're
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going to cause damage to to any potential evidence. So, they start searching again around 8:00 a.m. This is
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a full-on search deal here. We we have, you know, a helicopter, ATVs, blood hounds. The dogs track Jacob's scent to
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a gravel road. >> At this same spot, there are fresh shoe prints and tire tracks. So, now we have
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the possibility of a car used in the abduction. Now, we are going to do a drag net here. This is when you start
00:20:50
checking with anyone you can think of that could be involved in a particular crime and interview them to see where
00:20:57
they were at the time of the crime was committed as well as what they were doing or if there was anyone with them
00:21:03
that could back up their story. So if you have a burglary, you're going to interview all suspected burglars or
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persons convicted of breaking and entering. In this case of Jacob Wetling having been abducted, the sheriff's
00:21:17
department, they will set their drag net for sex offenders and pedophiles. >> Let's get into that after a quick beer
00:21:23
break. And we're back. Cheers, everybody. So, where we left off at, uh, Jacob was abducted. We now have two
00:21:31
eyewitness accounts. We have the 911 call place. We have the cops out there. Now, we have a search going. And we also
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have um the eyewitness accounts and what we're looking for in this suspect. >> Mhm. Yeah. And I mean, think about this
00:21:47
for a second. Put this in your mind. You know, there we have these young boys, you know, 10, 11 years old, three of
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them. They're out together. They're having, you know, a great day in every sense of the word up to this point
00:22:00
because, you know, we we've read and heard about what they were doing that day. >> Well, one, it's a Sunday, right? and
00:22:07
they don't have school the next day, >> right? >> So, that's the it's a bonus day off.
00:22:12
>> Uh, also, you know, your parents are going away, you got your buddies spending the night, so that's a fun
00:22:17
thing. >> And then, uh, and this is not uncommon. This is 89. This is not uncommon to be
00:22:24
sent off to a grocery store down the street. Um or you know in my neighborhood we had a a Big Bear um you
00:22:33
know which is a grocery store that was about u less than a mile away and your parents might send you off with 20 bucks
00:22:39
to go get some snacks and then right across uh the street from the Big Bear was a movie rental
00:22:47
>> and so it wasn't that uncommon to uh send your kid off even sometimes it would be a Friday night you know this
00:22:54
the it was dark but you uh your parents still seemed okay, especially if you had numbers, you know,
00:23:03
if it wasn't just you. If it was if I would have said, "Hey, I just want to run to Big Bear and get some snacks, my
00:23:09
parents probably wouldn't have let me. But if I had a friend spending the night or two friends spend the night or have a
00:23:15
friend spend the night with with a uh with one of my siblings hanging out, they're more likely to say go, you know,
00:23:22
go out there and and just be back pretty quickly." Yeah, they they had a great day. They so far, you know, they they
00:23:28
had some kind of hockey thing earlier that day. They had watched the Minnesota Vikings football game, pizza for dinner,
00:23:35
friends staying the night, no school the next day, >> then this thing happens is and and why
00:23:41
is this, you know, there are other child abductions that happen. Um, this becomes
00:23:47
huge news though >> and I think part of that is because of the severity and how scary this
00:23:54
situation is. I mean, we're talking about first of all, a a stranger abducting a child is very rare. First of
00:24:02
all, you know, we usually when a child a child is taken, it's by somebody that they know or the family knows. So, we
00:24:09
have a stranger abduction here, which is very rare. But then on top of that, like
00:24:14
the captain said, this is a witnessed abduction, which is extremely rare. You know, this is this is not a situation
00:24:21
where you have, you know, little Timmy didn't come home. He he went out on his own and he and he didn't come home.
00:24:27
Well, he's probably lost or uh maybe he he left on his own accord. No, this is two boys saying
00:24:36
>> our brother, our our friend was taken by gunpoint. You know, this this is immediate danger. Immediate immediately
00:24:43
scary. And the abduction itself is somewhat sexual in nature as well. >> Yeah. Yeah. With the with the friend
00:24:50
being grabbed in the in the genital. I mean, that's uh I think, you know, especially in 1989,
00:24:58
uh a lot of the reports were, hey, this boy was taken and by the way, we have no
00:25:03
ransom note. We have nobody calling. and and that it seems to me in the 70s and 80s uh the first thought was always why
00:25:12
did they take this kid and was it for ransom and now we have this situation where we do have a sexual assault at the
00:25:18
crime scene and so now we're assuming we should assume that this is not uh taking
00:25:25
a kid hostage for ransom. this is this guy is taking this kid for um sexual acts, you know, and and so then what
00:25:33
what is going through the parents head at that point? >> Well, and you think if your kids are
00:25:38
good, if your kids are smart, this things this kind of thing's not going to happen. And as as a child, you think,
00:25:44
you know, if you do certain things, these things are not going to happen. We're talking about things like, you
00:25:48
know, tell your parents where you are, tell your parents what you were doing. They did that. They they they made the
00:25:53
extra effort to reach out to their parents and ask for permission to go to the store and they even arranged for a
00:25:59
babysitter to come over and watch the younger sibling. You know, that sort of thing is not going to happen. And then
00:26:05
one thing you touched upon too, strength and numbers. We're always taught strength and numbers. you know, when you
00:26:10
go off to an amusement park or somewhere when you're a child, yeah, you might get
00:26:14
to go off on your own, but it's always because you have somebody with you >> and uh
00:26:18
>> or that your parents just don't care much about you >> and then they just let you off on your
00:26:22
own. But this was this was three boys leaving together that should have returned together and there should be no
00:26:28
reason. You wouldn't expect a child abduction to be witnessed like this. >> Well, it's not like Jacob made a
00:26:34
mistake. >> No, not at It wasn't like it wasn't like they're in the you know renting a movie
00:26:39
and and Jacob just happened to strike up a conversation with the wrong guy you know it all three of the boys could have
00:26:45
been taken captured you know and and and I think it's strange I mean like in the
00:26:51
account when he says oh well you know he pulled both of he pulled both of us up and looked at our faces and then it's
00:27:00
almost like that the guy chose >> Mhm. you know, and and so and then it's also all by gunpoint.
00:27:07
>> Yeah. >> And uh and if that and look, there's no reason for me to believe that the story
00:27:12
is not true. You know, I I would say the only thing is if he threw in the my only
00:27:19
question is one if he threw in the gun, but we got the other account from the brother. So, but sometimes it would be
00:27:26
like, well, we couldn't do anything cuz he had a gun. Mhm. >> U but then like maybe also if there's a
00:27:32
little fudge in the story, was he actually mask, you know, or or does he just feel bad cuz he he can't tell you
00:27:38
what the guy looks like? >> Mhm. >> Chances are his story is correct in my mind.
00:27:43
>> Yeah. Yeah. I I would agree so as well. Um let's back up for a second here because something else happened that
00:27:49
night that Jacob was taken. Uh whomever came upon the boys, he encountered them on this dark country road. But this is
00:27:58
right at the end of a family's driveway. Uh this is the Rasier family. Uh but this is a country road. So the driveway
00:28:06
is about a quarter of a mile long. >> Mhm. >> And on October 22nd, 1989, Dan Rasier, a
00:28:14
grown man in his 30s, he's living with his parents and he's home alone. >> His parents were away vacationing in
00:28:21
Europe. Sometime after the sheriff's department began their search for Jacob, Dan is awakened. It's about 10:45 p.m.
00:28:29
and his dog is barking as there is some disturbance at the end of the rasier driveway. Dan looks out the window and
00:28:36
he sees several flashlights moving about in the darkness near the family's wood pile and he assumes someone or someone's
00:28:44
are trying to steal wood from their property. Because he believes that he's outnumbered, Dan calls 911 to report the
00:28:51
incident. The dispatcher informs Dan that there has been a kidnapping that was recently reported on that road in
00:28:59
which he lives and the lights he is seeing is that of the sheriff's department searching for the boy. Dan
00:29:05
then goes to where the sheriffs are and and has a brief conversation with one of
00:29:10
the deputies and tells the deputy that he will go look around the area himself and attempt to assist in the search.
00:29:16
>> Mhm. Now, let's go to Monday, October 23rd. We had mentioned that the search picked up where the sheriff's department
00:29:24
had left off the previous night. Well, early that morning. Uh, and now this is around 8:00 a.m. on Monday. And the
00:29:31
search uh for Jacob continues. The search for the abducted boy, the search for the abductor. This continues. Now,
00:29:39
on this same day, Dan Rasier, first off, Dan is a music teacher at one of the local schools. Dan is called out of
00:29:46
class and the sheriff's department, they search Dan's car and they question him for about 45 minutes. Um, and this is
00:29:54
kind of where this where this ends for Dan on that day. Now, 6 days later, investigators search the Rasier Farm.
00:30:02
Dan takes a lie detector test to which he is never told the results of the test, which I don't think is a strange
00:30:08
thing. Um, you know, we have seen in some cases that we've covered like the West Memphis 3 where they immediately
00:30:14
tell you, "Oh, you failed this thing miserably and that's where they grill you further." My guess is that he
00:30:19
probably passed the lie detector test and that's why they didn't tell him of the results.
00:30:24
>> Um, but he >> Yeah, but you're probably freaking out at this point. >> Oh, yeah.
00:30:28
>> I mean, as you're a music teacher, so just even being suspect of this crime could cost you your job, cost you your
00:30:36
livelihood. Well, and when you're being called out of class, you know, and you get there and there's a sheriff there,
00:30:42
you probably assume I'm being interviewed because I live right by where this took place and had I seen
00:30:48
anything. This is my opportunity to tell them, even though I went down there and
00:30:52
spoke to a deputy that night, and they didn't seem very interested in talking to me at that point.
00:30:57
>> Um, it could be that the sheriff's department really expected to find the boy that night is what I think. I think
00:31:03
they thought maybe they'd find him in the woods or find him nearby. Um, I don't think this is something that they
00:31:08
were familiar with or maybe not even have having the capability of dealing with it.
00:31:13
>> Well, and then the music probably freaking out because he's going, you know, I live with my parents and my
00:31:18
parents just happen to be gone the day that this kid goes missing now. My career possibly is in jeopardy. Like we
00:31:25
said, I mean, this is ' 89. It's not like, you know, I think people are more uh understanding of that if you knew
00:31:31
somebody or you lived in a close proximity, you might be pulled in for questioning. I think that's more likely
00:31:37
that people understand that nowadays in 80 89 they're probably going, "This guy kills children or abducts children."
00:31:45
>> Yeah. And it's pretty but it's pretty obvious to Dan at this point that he is
00:31:49
become part of the investigation whether he likes it or not. and he tries to tell
00:31:53
the Sterns County Sheriff's Department that he is innocent and that he was he was yes, he was home alone that night,
00:32:01
but he was busy. He was sorting through his extremely large record collection. Uh and he also tells them that
00:32:08
>> Well, I wonder if he was doing one of those things. Have you seen HighFidelity?
00:32:12
>> Yes. >> Where he'd like decide, hey, tonight I'm going to reorganize in alphabetical
00:32:18
order. And then the next day he'd say, "I'm going to reorganize based on when I bought the record."
00:32:24
>> Yeah. And I think I think you might be right there because he he says something
00:32:28
like he was filling out uh index cards or something. He's making some kind of catalog of his extremely large record
00:32:36
collection. But, you know, he also tells them that he called 911 that night, that
00:32:41
he had placed a call to 911 that night, and that should prove that he's innocent.
00:32:46
>> Well, that doesn't prove anything. Well, and but see it from Dan's seat here.
00:32:50
This is this is the way he's thinking. Uh the investigators tell Dan that the 911 call actually proves the exact
00:32:57
opposite, stating that he manufactured the idea that someone was stealing wood from the property as an excuse to call
00:33:04
911, making him look innocent, and that on the call he sounded far too nervous for the real issue to be theft of
00:33:12
firewood. >> Well, he's a music teacher, right? So, I mean, he's he's probably not like a big
00:33:18
MMA fighter or something, >> and he's probably he probably was scared. >> Dan also tells investigators that they
00:33:25
should be looking for a vehicle, that he had seen a vehicle turning around in his
00:33:30
driveway the evening that Jacob was taken. >> Dan is able to give a vague, a very
00:33:36
vague description of the car, and because of the distance, he did not get a good look at the driver. Uh,
00:33:45
>> right. Because his house is so far back from off the road. Again, you know, if
00:33:51
you're the cops, I mean, put yourself in the cops position. You know, we got this
00:33:54
guy that maybe maybe he's a little funny. Um, lives with his parents. He's older gentleman in his 30s living with
00:34:01
his parents. He's a music teacher. Um, not saying that there's anything wrong with that. Um,
00:34:08
but then you make a 911 call saying, "Hey guys, somebody was stealing wood possibly."
00:34:15
>> Yeah. I got people on my property that I don't know who they are with flashlights,
00:34:19
>> right? And then you're going, "Hey, uh, well, and then there's a flashlight. The
00:34:23
kids were holding a flashlight. So, is he just mixing up events and and but then he's then telling you, "Hey, you
00:34:30
might want to check out this car that I saw." Well, you didn't mention the car the day before,
00:34:36
>> you know, because if you went out and you said, "Hey, sheriff, by the way, uh,
00:34:40
there was this car that I saw earlier." You didn't bring that up the day before,
00:34:43
right? >> So, I think that's why they started zeroing in more on him. >> My guess is that he probably was not
00:34:49
given any information about the the abduction, you know? They they didn't say this is what happened, you know, and
00:34:55
it sounds like they didn't even care to talk to him that night. So I I don't see
00:34:59
him going out of his way to say, "Well, by the way, I happen to have seen a vehicle turn around in my driveway."
00:35:04
Now, I'm sure that he told him that during the 45 minutes of questioning the right on that Monday.
00:35:09
>> That makes logical sense to me and you, but I think you got an 11year-old boy
00:35:13
that was taken by gunpoint. These cops have to do everything they can to just pick a direction and run in it as fast
00:35:20
as you can until you hit a brick wall and then pick another direction and then keep running in that direction as well.
00:35:27
But I also think that at this point Dan is not an actual suspect. You know, he's
00:35:31
somebody that they're they're interested in talking to him, >> but I don't believe that he's any form
00:35:37
of a suspect. And then he's mentioning this car, this and I can't see the driver. Uh, and here's a description of
00:35:43
the vehicle. You should be looking for this car because this took place about the same time as what the kid would have
00:35:50
been abducted. And you know, this to me seems like a good enough lead, you know,
00:35:55
because the sheriff's department found Jacob sent near those fresh tire tracks, right? and they decided it was most
00:36:02
likely that Jake that Jacob was taken by vehicle, which which is extremely plausible because that's how these
00:36:09
things happen, especially when you're out on this dirt country road, you know, and you know, Jacob should be if he's
00:36:15
not there, then he he has to have been taken by vehicle or he would be in one of the
00:36:20
>> Yeah. Well, it seems nearby homes, >> right? It seems like, you know, ani individual was driving by, saw these
00:36:27
three boys, saw it as an opportunity, or possibly even knew these boys, saw them
00:36:33
at the video store, and then said, "Well, I'm going to on their way back, I'm going to grab one of them." Parks
00:36:39
the vehicle, gets out of the vehicle, then walks to wherever they are, grabs one of the boys, they walk back to the
00:36:46
vehicle, and then they leave by that vehicle. >> Mhm. Yeah. He ambushes them on their way
00:36:51
back. he's away from his vehicle, >> right? And if he's wearing all black and he's has a black, you know, nylon mask
00:36:57
of some nature that they didn't even see him come creeping up on him. >> And not only you are you exactly right
00:37:04
because we know the history of this case, but it but think about this too. This is this is a wellthoughtout plan.
00:37:12
This and I I agree with you that >> Well, I don't know if it's a well thoughtout plan.
00:37:16
>> Well, well, here's what I mean by that. Okay. I I understand that that he probably the asalent probably saw an
00:37:22
opportunity and took advantage of that opportunity. However, >> there has been some planning done in
00:37:28
this. He's he unless he just happens to be wearing dark clothes that he just happens to have a mask or something to
00:37:35
cover his face. Yeah. That he just happens to drive around with a gun in his car and that he's got the the
00:37:41
foresight to to decide, you know what, I'm going to park my car elsewhere. I'm going to put myself someplace else where
00:37:48
I can take one of the boys so that the two that I'm leaving behind, they can't they can't see my vehicle or they don't
00:37:55
see my vehicle. >> Right. Right. Yeah. I mean, I think a lot of this I mean I don't like I said,
00:38:00
I don't think it's actually planned. I think this is just part of the guy's lifestyle. This is what he does. He's
00:38:06
he's he abducts children, you know, and and and he's been setting his life up, you know, to put himself in those
00:38:14
opportunities. And when those opportunities arise, well, I I got my van or car or whatever I'm driving and I
00:38:21
have all my tools um you know to abduct these kids in that in that van. In the coming weeks and months, the sheriff's
00:38:29
department and the wetterlings would continue to go to the media asking for tips and leads or to see if anyone had
00:38:35
seen Jacob. And the tips I'll I'll put that in quotation marks, the tips pour in. Uh people say they have seen Jacob.
00:38:44
Um, people call about strange vehicles, strange men. So, the police are tracking
00:38:50
all of these tips. They even set up a phone with a recording device on it at the Wetling home so that Jerry and Patty
00:38:59
could record the phone calls that are coming in. And then we have the psychics. Captain, uh, wannabe psychics
00:39:06
love missing person's cases. I think you and I, >> they're not always just wannabe
00:39:11
psychics. Well, some some legitimate psychics. >> Yeah, if you believe in that thing, I I
00:39:17
do. >> I'm not I'm not discrediting anybody uh by name here or as a whole. But I what
00:39:23
I'm saying is I see a lot of in these cases, I see a lot of wannabe psychics. >> No, I understand that. But what I I just
00:39:30
want to go on record to state that the majority of detectives I've talked to, they use psychics. And the majority of
00:39:37
the detectives that I have talked to said that after they found the body or you know one okay the recent one I just
00:39:46
we're talking and drinking coffee I just said hey have you ever used psychics and
00:39:50
then yeah and every time I do everybody in the police department makes fun of me. So he went to see one of the
00:39:57
psychics she told him all this stuff. It none of it really made sense. >> Mhm. Then they find the girl and after
00:40:05
he finds the girl, everything that the psychic made sense, everything that she presented made sense after they found
00:40:14
the girl. And now everybody in that department doesn't give him [ __ ] anymore because this lady has been right
00:40:21
multiple times. >> Was Was this the skipper that you were talking to or a different
00:40:25
>> different detective? >> Okay. Because the the funny thing here is I thought >> it was a sheriff. It was not a
00:40:29
detective, but >> Okay. I thought you were referring to the skipper at first who who we both
00:40:34
know and he's a very skeptical person. He does not I mean is that fair to say he doesn't believe in a whole lot of
00:40:41
mysticism or >> maybe even spirituality? I don't know. But uh uh he has told me that that on
00:40:48
occasion he's spoken to a psychic which blew my mind because I thought that he wouldn't take a phone call or put any
00:40:55
effort into that at all. But he said from his perspective that he didn't mind talking to psychics because he wanted an
00:41:03
outside of the box kind of opinion or maybe there was something that they hadn't thought of yet, a possibility
00:41:09
that they hadn't thought of. Now, in this particular case, you know, the the detective, some of them, one in
00:41:15
particular, said that he did talk to psychics because he wanted to know how did they come to their conclusion? How
00:41:22
did they are they are they really just holding on to information that they know firsthand rather than something they
00:41:29
dreamt or or believe to have happened? They want to know is this person actually coming forth with information
00:41:34
because they've actually done something bad. >> Right. Right. And look, I I'm not
00:41:39
suggesting that people go, you know, uh speak with a psychic on every little thing. And I'm just saying that
00:41:45
detectives do use this to, you know, kind of drum up some different ideas just like we talked about with the
00:41:51
skipper. >> Now, here's the thing, Captain. I think you and I have covered enough of these
00:41:56
cases to know that the psychics seem to come out of the woodwork for murder cases, but especially for these
00:42:02
disappeared or abducted cases, they they really come at and and come at the family and come at law enforcement with
00:42:08
ideas and thoughts and dreams that they have had. >> Yeah. And visions. And if you look at
00:42:12
like this, we talked about the Brian Schaefer case and when they had the psychic kids do that case,
00:42:18
>> one of the things I always freaked out about and now maybe they do, maybe they
00:42:21
knew, maybe they didn't know, but when they said that this guy was in this building and then he left the building
00:42:27
and came back, now we know that to be factual later. Now, were those kids fed that information? I'm not really for
00:42:33
sure. >> The the host in that particular incident claims that the the children, the
00:42:37
psychic kids knew nothing of the actual incident. they they were taken to a location and told somebody disappeared
00:42:43
from this location. Now go >> right. And so if you're going to call a psychic to try to get answers on for
00:42:49
your life, I'd say don't do that. Maybe try a therapist. >> You know, maybe have some mentor or
00:42:55
counselor. But I I think there's nothing wrong with uh using psychics in in this
00:43:00
capacity. But on the other hand, there's been so many psychics when especially with these YouTube videos, these guys
00:43:07
claiming that, "Oh, I know where this missing person is, and it's based off of nothing." It's just it's so they get a
00:43:12
bunch of clicks on their YouTube video, and those people are pieces of [ __ ] you
00:43:17
know? >> Yeah. Well, I I will tell you when the world will end, the exact date, and why,
00:43:22
and then when it doesn't happen, I'll disappear for a couple years and give you a new date,
00:43:25
>> right? Uh but so in this particular case, there were a ton of psychics that came out of
00:43:32
the woodwork here and presented their thoughts, visions, theories, and a lot of them were communicating with the
00:43:38
parents with Jerry and Patty Wetling. Well, and some of that is just wrong, too, because if if you are a [ __ ]
00:43:45
artist and, you know, maybe some of these people actually think they have visions, you know, but I I just think
00:43:52
some of it is wrong to uh, you know, give the parents false hope. >> Exactly. I mean, I would say reach out
00:43:58
to the law enforcement. Yeah. You know, don't bother the family. They're going through something here that nobody
00:44:04
should have to experience. And getting false hope is really kicking somebody while while they're at their lowest,
00:44:10
>> right? Now, we said that there was a whole bunch of psychics that that came forward to law enforcement to the
00:44:16
Wetterlings. >> Hold on. We just got off on a crazy tangent. >> Sorry about that. Sorry about that.
00:44:21
>> I'm actually leading somewhere with this. >> I have no >> Okay, so there is one such psychic that
00:44:26
came uh came about amongst the sea of psychics that presented their theories, their thoughts, their visions. Uh the
00:44:35
the Wetlings had psychics calling the house at all hours. Some even would go to the house to meet the parents of
00:44:40
Jacob. Some asking for one of Jacob's toys or an article of clothing to better help them channel Jacob or Jacob's
00:44:48
spirit. Uh but one psychic that does go to the home of the Wetlings is a man in his early 40s from Wisconsin and his
00:44:56
name is Vernon Seats. Uh Vernon actually visits Patty Wetling on two occasions. Well, look, when you name your kid
00:45:04
Vernon, he he's going to grow up to be like a librarian or he's going to grow up to be a psychic.
00:45:10
>> Well, he he visits Patty Wetling on two occasions. And on one of those occasions, uh one of those visits, he
00:45:18
gives her a painting that he had painted of Jacob. >> Um yeah, so unfortunately you and I have
00:45:25
heard some of the recorded calls. Um Captain, these are all false leads that we know of now. Um, some of them calling
00:45:32
the Wetlings in the middle of the night and saying some, you know, absolutely horrible things, telling Jacob's parents
00:45:38
that he has been killed and how he's been killed according to their visions or he's alive but he's being held
00:45:46
captive and he's been raped repeatedly. I mean, I don't know how a parent in this type of situation has the strength
00:45:52
to go on. I guess the hope that your kid could still be alive and the thought that I better be here doing something
00:45:59
and of sound mind so that if he is still alive I can help somehow some way. >> What a helpless feeling though. I mean
00:46:05
it's like you know if if your kid falls down and then you can clean up the the brute, you know, the the cut and you can
00:46:13
and you can comfort them. But but your kid's just gone, you know, and I and I couldn't imagine the the thoughts that
00:46:20
were racing through your heads and then there'd be a part of you that would just
00:46:24
want to hit the streets and just start looking and start driving around. And I I think personally for me, I'd go crazy.
00:46:30
It'd be 10 years of me driving around looking for answers. I mean, I think it would just be so horrific.
00:46:38
>> Unfortunately, helpless is the word is I think that's how you feel in this situation. you're you're helpless. Your
00:46:45
your child if your child is injured, you nurse them back to health. If if they're
00:46:49
ill, you nurse them back to health. If they're gone >> and taken from you, you you're you're
00:46:55
helpless. You there's nothing you can do. Uh you feel like there's nothing you can do in the situation.
00:47:00
>> Well, not only the helplessness of the parents, but you know, your little brother was with you. you know, I mean,
00:47:07
if you're the little brother, your older brother of a year or or more. Um, you know, because one was 10 and one was 11,
00:47:16
but I mean, it could, you know, it's like he could be a year and a few months older, but it's like, so your your older
00:47:22
brother, possibly your hero or whatever, he's just been taken from you. And what? And
00:47:29
and then you witness all that. Not to mention, hey, lay down in this ditch. Not to mention, run to this woods or I'm
00:47:36
going to shoot you. You're 10 years old. I mean, I couldn't even imagine that. Or
00:47:41
on the other side of things, it's your best friend. You're spending the night at your best friend's house and he you
00:47:48
like same thing, you know, and you have to deal with the whole thing. And then you have to deal with this guy grabbing
00:47:53
your genitals. You got to deal, you know, this guy stole your best friend away. And then the the the
00:48:02
stuff that he had to be going through like now we're searching for my friend and I hope he's found but this is
00:48:09
probably all the kids are talking about in the community. >> Well and it's survivors guilt even
00:48:14
though you don't know the outcome of your friend or brother being taken. you have this survivor's guilt and it's, you
00:48:19
know, all these things are probably going through your head that, oh, why why was he taken and not me
00:48:24
>> or what could I have done differently at that exact moment to change the the current situation that we're in? You
00:48:32
know, maybe should I have not run, >> right? >> Maybe should I have pushed the issue?
00:48:37
Maybe should I have looked the man in the face? Um, you know, >> fought him off. Yeah.
00:48:42
>> All these things >> tried to. And like you said, it's the it's the brother, you know, feeling
00:48:47
guilty and it's the the best friend, you know, >> well, and then you got the parents on
00:48:52
the on the idea of the mom said no. >> Mhm. >> And then, you know, and then Trevor went
00:48:58
back to the dad and the dad said yes. >> Yeah. That that absolutely I mean this is a heartbreaking story anyway but that
00:49:05
portion of the story breaks my heart every time because you know when people when people are in a situation where
00:49:11
they can't control anything some people want somebody to blame and um the father
00:49:16
did absolutely nothing wrong here. There's no reason why this should have happened at all. Um nobody could have
00:49:21
foreseen this happening. >> Well and nowadays I mean this just people just don't let their kids do
00:49:26
these things. But you know we're also raging a bunch of monsters now. Mhm. I >> mean, like, you know, that was one of
00:49:33
the best parts of my childhood was run, you know, run down to the big bear and pick up some snacks. I'd always get
00:49:38
fudge rounds for some reason cuz I think it was a buck and then you eat like 20 fudge rounds and drink Coca-Cola. But,
00:49:46
um, you know, it's sad that we live in a world that we can't just send, you know,
00:49:53
your 10, 11 year old kid, you know, a couple blocks away to to run a movie. But but again, stranger with child
00:50:02
abductions are extremely rare. Um this isn't something that's happening, you know.
00:50:07
>> Yeah. But Right. But also, you know, I I understand what parents are doing, though. Don't run to the store. Don't be
00:50:14
by yourself. Don't play outside without anybody watching because now we're not giving anybody an opportunity. And let's
00:50:20
face it, man, there's just more sickos today. Well, the you know this situation it there's nothing that the parents
00:50:28
should have done differently. There's nothing that they could have done differently. This is not their fault. No
00:50:33
one they're not at fault here. The the brother's not at fault. >> Jacob's not at fault, like I said,
00:50:37
>> right? What could have What could have Trevor done differently? And you know,
00:50:40
you pulled clips to for our trailer at the beginning of the show and you hear the brother I assume that's Trevor
00:50:45
saying that >> No, that's his friend. >> Is that Aaron saying that? I thought this is just some like older kid playing
00:50:51
a prank on us or something, >> you know. Um the kids didn't even they're too young to even understand the
00:50:57
situation that they're in. >> Well, and one of the things I thought was interesting, I was watching this
00:51:02
YouTube video and it was a report from back in ' 89 and they were walking the same road with Aaron and Trevor. And to
00:51:11
see the news anchor right beside them, you realize how small these kids are. >> Yeah.
00:51:16
>> You know what I mean? and the and it's um it's it's sad that we have these monsters out there.
00:51:22
>> Well, let's fast forward a little bit here, Captain, because Jacob's case, it
00:51:27
goes cold in a sense uh for some time. Uh it's still in the news, especially locally. Um the anniversary, you know,
00:51:34
that that October 22nd date every year brings the reminders to the public locally and nationally. But it won't be
00:51:42
until about 2003 when the sheriff's department get the phone call that they have been waiting
00:51:49
on. >> In 2003, a local man contacted the authorities and he's got a story for them. He tells them he was in the area
00:51:58
the night that Jacob was abducted. The man had been listening to a police scanner and had heard about the missing
00:52:05
boy and he decided to drive to the scene. He told them that he had got close enough with his car. You know,
00:52:12
he's driving in his car. He got close enough that he saw the bikes and the scooter in the ditch. He did speak with
00:52:19
a deput a deputy that night asking if if the sheriff's had seen or knew about the
00:52:26
bikes, and the deputy said yes, they had. >> Now, are you hip to these police scanners?
00:52:32
Um, my grandfather had one growing up, uh, which I always thought was kind of cool that he he listened to it. Uh, I
00:52:39
don't really have any any kind of, uh, experience with them other than >> thought about getting one. It might be
00:52:45
kind of neat. >> Chasing ambulances and stuff. >> No, just, you know, >> just to hear what's going on.
00:52:51
>> Just listening in. >> You live in a suburb, so I don't >> It's going to be like strange calls. Um,
00:52:59
but but Captain, this is the phone call that they've been waiting for because this man and his car could possibly
00:53:06
account for the vehicle seen by Dan Rasier that night. And the and this could account for the fresh tire tracks
00:53:13
near the abduction site as well. The man could not be 100 he couldn't 100% remember the make and the model of the
00:53:21
tires that he was driving that night. >> No [ __ ] Sherlock. >> Well, this is 2003. Well, and this is my
00:53:27
problem with the whole thing. So, you come out how many years later? >> 14 years.
00:53:33
>> About 14 years later. Yeah. >> Well, you you come out 14 years later and you go, "Hey guys, I got a story to
00:53:39
tell you." Really? >> Well, no. Well, let you want a little more background on this.
00:53:44
>> Yeah. I want to know why it took him 14 years. >> Why? He's like, "Oh, I've been busy.
00:53:47
Couldn't Couldn't make a phone call." No. What happened was he >> had a lot of laundry to do.
00:53:52
you know, being a for 14 14 years older than what he was at the time, he was at a party, okay? He was at like some some
00:53:59
work function or something like that. And he was talking to somebody that that is in law enforcement, maybe FBI or
00:54:06
something. I don't know the the background. I think he was a marshal, the person that he was talking to. And
00:54:11
he tells somehow the Jacob Wetling case comes up in conversation and he says to the marshall, he says,
00:54:17
>> "Those are our people though, right? I mean, think about every time we're at a
00:54:20
bar. It's so great when a a true crime thing actually comes up. Then we don't have to feel like a weirdo.
00:54:26
>> Uh he he's in this conversation. >> Okay. >> And he says, you know, I was I lived in
00:54:31
the area and as a matter of fact, I I heard the call go out on the police scanner. So I drove to the location. I
00:54:38
actually saw the the bicycles and I told a deputy that night, you know, did have
00:54:44
you guys do you guys know about these bicycles over here? Should do you need any help? Should I get you the bicycles?
00:54:50
should I show you where they are? And he said that the deputy told him, "We are aware of the bicycles. We know what's
00:54:56
going on. It'd be best if you just go home." >> Right. >> So, he went home and he was never
00:55:02
contacted. They didn't take his name, phone number, anything to contact him in the future.
00:55:06
>> They should have. >> Exactly. And and he says that uh you know, I just assumed that everything I
00:55:12
knew they knew. >> And so I never contact. >> That's not a bad assumption. And the
00:55:17
marshall says, "Well, you know, this this case is ongoing. It's a cold case. It seems like nothing. What you're
00:55:23
telling me sounds like not a whole lot of information here, but you should contact the police and talk with them.
00:55:30
>> At least tell them what you know." >> And he actually said, "You know, I >> I and maybe it was because of the uh you
00:55:36
know, because of how he was greeted with it that night that he felt uncomfortable
00:55:40
calling the uh police department, discussing this with them." And the marshall said, "Well, I know some guys
00:55:46
over there and let me arrange this for you." Because the marshall thought that this was something that the sheriff's
00:55:51
department needed to hear. >> Well, and I we've all been there. We've all done that where we get pulled over
00:55:56
by a cop and their attitude is bad. >> Mhm. >> Right. And and again, you know, I I I'm
00:56:02
all for law enforcement. I'm all for law enforcement doing their job. They're great people, but let's just remember
00:56:08
serve and protect. That's that's that's what you're signing up for. Not to harass, not to, you know, try to teach
00:56:16
everybody a lesson, not to, you know, if you were picked on in high school, there
00:56:19
should be a rule. If you were picked on in high school, you shouldn't be able to
00:56:22
be a cop. There should be a rule about that. But, uh, no, it's it's to serve and protect and and you don't have to
00:56:29
serve and protect with a negative attitude towards people. And if this guy, you know, yeah, maybe they thought,
00:56:34
okay, we got this crime scene and we don't want anybody to mess it up. I get that. Go home, please. But this guy
00:56:42
obviously thought, well, for 14 years, you know, well, these guys gave me some attitude and they probably know what I
00:56:49
know. So, what does it matter? >> Or at the very least, they don't they don't care, you know? They the the
00:56:54
information I have is not valuable to to them or their investigation, so what am
00:56:59
I, you know? >> Right. Right. >> Um, >> just a nice reminder, just be nice to people. That goes for everybody. Just
00:57:05
try to be kind, okay? Don't don't be don't be walking around like a dick face, you know.
00:57:10
>> Well, and if if what the captain says should be true, if you pick on every kid
00:57:15
in your school, if you don't grow up to be the police officer, then nobody is allowed to be a police officer.
00:57:21
>> Um, so again, the man, the first thing that the sheriff's department, they want
00:57:26
to know are, you know, what kind of tires did you have on that vehicle? Do you remember? Because we have a
00:57:32
photograph of the tire track. >> We have tire tracks. Yeah. And if we can track down a model that's similar or the
00:57:37
same of that tire, we can we can conclude that you were the one that left the tire tracks here. Now, because the
00:57:44
impressions were were so they they constantly say fresh tire tracks. Well, but what I one thing I think that they
00:57:51
mean on that is not that they were just recently left there. That on top of that, they probably came from newer
00:57:57
tires given the amount of the impression. Mhm. >> Uh because their follow-up question when
00:58:02
he says, "I don't remember what kind of tires I was driving on," they say, "Well, do you remember if they were old
00:58:08
or new tires?" And he said, "I can tell you that I had recently replaced the tires on that vehicle."
00:58:14
>> Okay. So now they believe that this vehicle, this accounts for the vehicle that Dan Rasier had seen, the one that
00:58:22
they were kind of looking for. You know, they were looking even though they had questioned Dan and made him feel like a
00:58:27
suspect, they were still looking for this vehicle. >> Now they now they believe they've
00:58:32
tracked down this vehicle. And this man is innocent. He's he's not the person that took Jacob. So they can account for
00:58:39
several things that happened that night that they were looking for. And since they could clear this man of any
00:58:45
wrongdoing, this now meant that they believed that the abductor had most likely fled on foot with Jacob.
00:58:54
>> So this now means that we are going to look for not only a suspect that is local, but someone that is so local that
00:59:01
he would have had the ability to take Jacob into the attacker's home, into his home and or property and had the ability
00:59:10
to conceal Jacob. So once again, the sheriff's department has Dan Rasier in their sights. Dan lived probably the
00:59:18
closest to the abduction site than anybody. He had no alibi for his whereabouts or
00:59:24
>> uh for what he to vouch for what he was doing prior to him talking with the police that night,
00:59:30
>> right? >> Uh and he he not only, you know, he was left a home alone that night. And
00:59:36
furthermore, according to his own story, he's roughly a quarter of a mile from the crime scene.
00:59:42
>> Right. So if if the suspect left on foot, then I mean, here's our closest suspect.
00:59:47
>> Yeah. So once again, Dan Rasier is finding himself in the hot seat of this investigation,
00:59:52
>> right? And I and I get all that, but there's another part of me that that just goes, "Okay, well, you found tire
00:59:58
prints, and that was not of the the suspect's tire prints, but that doesn't mean that he he fled on foot."
01:00:05
>> Mhm. I mean, like maybe you just don't have the tire prints. Maybe the person
01:00:09
never left the road. Maybe the person just put on their blankers, walked out, grabbed the kid, put him in the car, and
01:00:15
took off. Well, there's been a lot of people to throw scrutiny at the sheriff's department because of this
01:00:21
issue, you know, because now we've taken Dan Rasier and not only was he once somebody that we were interested in
01:00:27
talking to regarding this investigation and regarding this crime, now he seems to be the most likely person. Now, the
01:00:36
sheriff's department has made him a let's call a suspect. They never call him a suspect, but they're treating him
01:00:42
>> Yeah, but he was a suspect, >> right? They're treating him like a suspect. But not only that, it seems
01:00:46
like they've narrowed their vision to the point where they're they're honing in on Dan Rasier completely,
01:00:51
>> right? And what I said in the first place is the cops need to, you know, pick a path, pick a direction, run as
01:00:57
fast as you can until you hit the brick wall. So 14 years ago, they didn't do that. They didn't they didn't, you know,
01:01:04
they should have looked at Dan from every angle, did as much as they could, and he's either our guy or he's not a
01:01:11
suspect. >> I absolutely agree with that statement. They should have done that in the
01:01:14
beginning. The problem is that they didn't. Now, where I don't fault them and where I don't think we should have
01:01:19
thrown scrutiny at the sheriff's department is because a lot of people were saying, you know, well, a new
01:01:24
sheriff took over about the same time. And so, the new sheriff says that we're we're going to spend a good amount of
01:01:31
time on Jacob. >> 2003. >> Yeah. Roughly around that time. So, the the new sheriff kind of, you know,
01:01:38
they've set their sights on the investigation now on Dan Rasier. Here's here's where I think that they're fine
01:01:45
to do that because >> No, no, it's fine >> because because here's the thing, like
01:01:48
you said, run till you hit a brick wall. Unfortunately, they didn't do things properly in the beginning in my opinion,
01:01:54
but they've been hitting a brick wall for the last 14 years. So then what you do is you have, you know, new sets of
01:02:01
eyes. These are probably, you can assume that there's some new investigators on this case by this time. You have new
01:02:07
technology. You have this person that comes forward that can account for this ghost car that Dan Rasier says he saw.
01:02:13
So now you're pouring back over the information and you're going, "What did we miss? What did we get wrong?" Well,
01:02:19
we thought there was a car. Maybe we've got this whole thing wrong the whole time because there was not a car, right?
01:02:25
>> Maybe this guy's been right under our thumb the entire time and we just didn't
01:02:29
even we didn't see him because we assumed there was a car. Now we have this new information. I don't blame them
01:02:34
for for changing gears here and pivoting and focusing on Dan Rasier. >> Sometimes you go down that path and you
01:02:40
hit a brick wall and then sometimes you get a little more information and you go
01:02:44
down that path again and when you hit that brick wall it collapses and then you know and that's where your suspect
01:02:50
is. I mean we've see that time and time again. Yeah, it just seems like they um but
01:02:56
it's, you know, small town 1989 seems like they just made uh you know, some mistakes here and
01:03:05
there, you know, and that's going to look, we're human, so we're going to make mistakes, you know, not every not
01:03:11
every podcast that we put out is perfect. I mean, most of them are, but uh you know, especially this one. But
01:03:18
yeah, so I can't blame them too much. I mean that I'm sure their intentions were
01:03:21
to get this writing to get this solved. All right. So I mean we're only at 2003 in this case and and we know that
01:03:29
there's more information that came out in 2016 >> and a whole bunch of stuff between that.
01:03:35
>> Right. Right. So we got Can you stick around for a little bit and we'll just uh knock out another podcast?
01:03:40
>> I got I got an hour or so. >> All right. So we got a recommended reading for this.
01:03:44
>> Uh yes. I want to recommend this week uh Hometown Killer. Um, this is a similar
01:03:49
story to the one that we're telling today. Um, this is about a case that took place in the early '9s in
01:03:55
Springfield, Ohio. Um, the author calls it the all-American town, much like where Jacob was from. Uh, this is the
01:04:03
hometown killer, a peaceful community stalked by a remorseless slayer. And you can pick that up by going to our
01:04:09
website, true crimegar.com. Click on the recommended page. You will see Hometown
01:04:14
Killer as well as all of our other recommended books. We will be right back tomorrow in the garage reporting.
01:04:20
>> Yeah. Well, yes. >> Well, we're going to do it tonight. >> Well, we're we're going to record it
01:04:24
tonight. I'm going to I'll I'll try to have it edited by tomorrow. >> Sounds good. And until tomorrow, be
01:04:31
good, be kind, and don't let it [Music]