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foreign [Music] foreign foreign garage wherever you are whatever you are doing thanks for listening I'm your host
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Nick and with me as always is a man who bets on JV football he is the very broke Captain I don't want your
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life it's good to be seen and it's good to see you thanks for listening and thanks for telling a friend
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[Music] this week we are drinking scissor kick by the beer ninjas over at Kings County
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Brewers Collective this is a double dry hopped IPA featuring a massive mid-air karate style edition of Simcoe hops they
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also use something called x14 which is a fruity new experimental hop grown exclusively on Long Island garage grade
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a big four and a half bottle caps out of five and this week we are practicing High karate because of our good garage
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friends right here first up a huge thank you and cheers to Justine and the kcbc team out in Brooklyn yeah and somebody
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that likes a little naughty karate Megan from Kettering Ohio next up we have Landon and Lauren from Sanger Texas
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Landon and Lauren love listening to TCG while road tripping there's a cloud with
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vein and it's bleeding on me and a big wheel like your jib to Lori and Vancouver Washington all right Captain
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next up we have Kristen in the far off Alaska and last but certainly not least we have Stephanie up in Markham Ontario
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Canada everyone that we just mentioned went to True Crime garage.com that's our website and they donated to this week's
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you can do whatever you want at truecrime garage.com and that is enough of the beers Nest all right
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everybody gather around grab a chair grab a beer let's talk some true crime [Music]
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foreign [Music] Ashland County warn of a passing train a tragedy averted the sights along County
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Road 1181 warn of a tragedy committed white ribbons have been strung in memory of Amy mihalovic Amy's body was
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discovered right alongside 1181 last week the ground has been scraped by investigators for soil sample analysis
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another portion is covered with flowers left by shocked residents who now have more personal reasons to help in finding
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Amy's killer because he was bent down so I couldn't see him that well Larry Schuster has told the FBI an amazing
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story on the day Amy's body was found Schuster says he saw a suspicious looking stranger drive back and forth
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near the discovery site and he claims the driver looked very much like the police composite sketch of Amy's
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abductor as I was leaving coming up towards 224 that's when I seen him going back down again
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back up I think he was coming up this way to see what was going on and see if anybody found him found the girl Amy
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mihalovic is one girl this community will never forget as a card on the flowers proclaims from the people of New
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London Ohio we're sorry Amy there is not only a sense of pity being shown by the people of Ashland County
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but also a sense of precaution as well even though many neighbors tell me in their opinion Amy was probably killed
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someplace else they say they plan to play it safe just in case her abductor is still in the area this is the land on
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which Kenneth Meyer has spent much of his life as a grain farmer and a frequent Hunter he says he now has
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frequent thoughts about Amy I told my wife the other day I said you know you see this on TV all the time where they
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go out in the country and find a body I said but you never figure it's going to happen right in your back door
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Meyers claims children are being watched more closely as well as property while the community awaits the arrest of Amy
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mihalovic's killer in Ashland County Jack Marshall reporting for the 10 o'clock news
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[Music] all right we have three more suspects to get to before we wrap up for this week
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now I know which one I would like to end the week on so two to choose from where
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do you want to go next Captain do you want to talk about a suspect who has been on my mind a lot lately or would
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you like to talk about the people's suspect Dean Runkle you know how in wrestling they got the people's champ
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well I would I would call Dean Runkle the people's suspect because anytime we've spoke about this case Helen from
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Parts Unknown yeah that's the guy that we get the most emails about or the most blog posts
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about let's talk about the the first guy because he's been on my mind too okay so
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the the suspect that's been on my mind a lot lately is Kenneth Robert Stanton he
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was a one-time Moraine Ohio resident he pled guilty to 13 molestation cases he received 60 years in a Georgia prison
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now back in the 60s Stanton was charged with sex crimes involving children and committed to a state hospital in the
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state of Michigan from which he escaped he later was caught and arrested and recommitted he
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was diagnosed at the time as a criminal sexual psychopath years later he was declared to be fit to live in society
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and released now I know a lot of people are going to rele you know maybe laugh at those weird
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statements being back to back like that but look in the 60s and the 70s a lot of
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states did operate that way they believe that this type of stuff could be you could be rehabilitated and they
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would issue you back out into society now let's get into him in detail because he's very very interesting for many
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reasons now in 1989 he was molesting young girls who were home alone this is believed to have started in
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Jackson Mississippi he would pretend to be either a police officer or a food safety inspector right
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he's using this method to get into the home with these girls that are alone yeah he's using a ruse
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yeah he would knock on the door basically he would he would follow these girls around make sure that they're
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going to be home alone knock on the door and he's presenting himself as an authority figure a police officer or a
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food safety inspector giving them reason to one trust him and two to let him into
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the home to look into whatever it is he's claiming he he's there for once inside the home his typical Mo was
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to blindfold and molest the girl now in the summer of 1989 one of his victims began screaming so loud from inside the
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home that Stanton was scared away a neighbor boy heard the screams and this draws his attention to what's
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going on right and he sees Stanton fleeing the property the boy God bless him wrote down
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Stanton's license plate number got him yep he gives this to the police after the girl calls in the complaint and then
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later once they have his you know driver's license photo they have some photo of him the girl
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identifies from that photo Stanton as the assailant rather than be arrested he flees the
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area he was suspected of assaults not only of several in Mississippi but also in the
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state of Alabama and Georgia as well his car his vehicle was found abandoned in Ohio in December of 1989. so
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first let's think about his timeline for a bit we have him molesting girls young girls
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nine ten years old he's using a ruse to get into their home and then once he's caught for this or suspected of this
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with with two witnesses two eyewitnesses he flees the area and that is in the summer of 89. now his vehicle is found
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in December of 89. the thing here is you have to fill in the gaps but we know that his vehicle
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was found abandoned in the state of Ohio so that would put him somewhere in the area
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now let's think about his previous crimes in MO for a minute right right he's molesting these girls he's using
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the ruse using a ruse to get into their home right he's a criminal sexual psychopath as they
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labeled him he's using a fake identity on a girl home alone and the victimology is
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similar it's so similar in fact it's girls of the same age living in nice neighborhoods yeah
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but fear not because then the FBI adds Kenneth Robert Stanton to their 10 most wanted list
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and then one of True Crime garage's favorite old shows Unsolved Mysteries featured the Stanton case on the October
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24th 1990 episode of their great show maybe you could help solve a mystery that's right and some people were able
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to help solve a mystery because viewers of the show started calling in with tips
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that Stanton was living in a trailer park in Moraine Ohio well Captain guess who else was watching
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Unsolved Mysteries that night well the Pervert On The Run Kenneth sicko Stanton saw his face on TV so
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Stanton took off again and Stan is smart and scared enough to run but like a behavior that we've discussed
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several times on this show he can't help himself his addiction owns him it controls him
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he is addicted to molesting young girls to victimizing girls yeah so even you'll see this with all types of
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of criminals repeat offenders serial offenders sexual predators no matter what situation they're in no
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matter how scared they are or if they're already running from law enforcement if
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they see someone that fits their victimology and an opportunity to assault rape kill whatever it is that
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they are into because they're so absolutely addicted to their desire result and outcome of that victim and
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that opportunity so just five days after Stanton flees from Ohio after seeing his face on TV he
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sees an opportunity a nine-year-old girl and he can't help himself he tries to molest her thankfully he's unsuccessful
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and he is arrested well let's let's think about this for a second because you have Killers such as like Dahmer
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which will say that he he did this thing and and he he killed a guy and he's never going to do it again we we hear
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these guys talk about their urges and how they're trying to control them and and there were it's almost like a drug
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uh addict you know if you read like Miles Davis's book he'll say and that's the last time I did heroin and and then
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the next pages and then I was in New York doing heroin and it's very similar to some of the stuff uh Ted Bundy would
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talk about but again remember when Ted Bundy was on the run in Florida it's almost like
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um this stress the heightened stress makes the addiction stronger with these individuals yeah it's it's it's exactly
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as said an addiction that you can't you can't get away from it and the the longer you are from it the the more it
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increases so as said he thankfully he is unsuccessful this attack leads to his arrest this all takes place in a motel
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in Rock Hill South Carolina so once again on the Run ultimately Stanton ends up pleading guilty to 13
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molestation charges receiving a 60-year sentence eligible for parole after 40. but we can throw a parade because
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Stanton did die in prison this was in August of 2011. so he's no longer a threat to communities there is no threat
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that he will get out of prison he is thankfully no longer with us right Stanton got him the reason why I like
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him for several reasons okay one he doesn't look unlike the composite drawing two he is already known to have been
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using ruses that were working he's already trained himself to the level that his ruses are working to get
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into the homes of these individuals now we've talked about how these serial offenders whatever crime it be they are
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learning through trial and error and what got him caught was being in the home of the girl that he was victimizing
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yeah she's screaming somebody from the outside hears these screams alerts them to hey something's going on and they see
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this grown man running out the door running through the yard and getting into a car and that boy was smart enough
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and had the wherewithal to write down this creeps license plate number so you're saying I'm saying maybe he
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adapted and rather than knocking on the front door now he's going to use the telephone to enter their home yeah you
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have to get out of there I got to get the victim to come out of the house I gotta get them to me rather than me
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going to them because me going to them is what almost got me caught and now I'm on the run I'm up here in Ohio somewhere
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wasn't there a bunch of speculation that uh the perpetrator's car would have been
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like maybe in an Alleyway but probably that he didn't actually Park in if you look at pictures of the plaza where he
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picked up Amy at uh it looks like there's a little parking lot in the middle yeah you could have had Amy walk
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just a short distance before you would be not visible to most and have your car kind of
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stashed there right so you create this ruse to get her out of the house the problem though is you're still
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putting in her into a public area but then you're able to move your car out of the way and like you said a
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little walk and and nobody's ID in the car right right and one thing I've wondered about
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too is that if at some point did you could switch ruses completely when you're talking about a 10 year old right
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so you you tell them at one point that you're you're going to take them somewhere that they may want to go go
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shopping buy something for their mom I'll give you some money afterwards that is your ruse but at some point if she if
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she starts to figure you out or or if you just want to change it completely to take
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to take the lead you could present yourself as an authority figure you could say something to this child of
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look you met a stranger at a location and you left with them you're in big trouble here young lady
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right you're in big trouble if your parents find out about this you're going to be in big trouble I'm a police
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officer I'm undercover and we're doing these type of operations and you can present yourself as some type of
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authority figure it wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility we'd at some point what we do know in cancer mice
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just based off of simple logic at some point she knew that whatever he you know the shopping trip was not going to
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happen at some point she knew he was not who he says he was and at some point he
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took control of the situation now that could have been seconds before she was killed it could have been hours it could
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have been days but we know that that happened at some point and that's why I go I go to him because the ruse that he
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was using at the time is not terribly unsimilar to what was used against Amy but I think the problem with Stanton as
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good as a suspect as I think that he makes and as good as a well it's terrible of a human being that
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he is I mean we already the difference between oh [ __ ] well the difference between him and
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several of the other suspects that that are often brought up is he is a known pedophile he is a he's been convicted
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multiple times on multiple accounts we know that he is in fact this in fact somebody that would be looking for a
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victim of this age and her gender the problem the problem is can you put him in the immediate area that day or
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leading up to the abduction that gets very difficult to do because this man was already on the Run he's not
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he's not got a permanent address on paper right right and that's that's again but that makes me
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that makes him a better suspect in my mind since he is on the run that he has been able to have the ability to find
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locations so the fact that you know it took so long um I mean what was it almost three
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months between the abduction and when she was discovered correct this person would have uh the know-how
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to find a location and and possibly have her there alive for a while um yeah as terrible as it is to say this
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Stanton sicko Stanton he would have been skilled at this right unfortunately I mean it's it's not
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his first time now the other thing too with him being on the Run captain that makes him interesting is
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does he really need to be accounted for that day that evening the next day you know we we don't we don't have we don't
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even know where he was right um we know he was on the run but he fled in the summer of 89.
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we know that his vehicle was found in Ohio in December of 89 and then later we have reports that he was still in Ohio
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in Moraine Ohio yeah in October of 1990. so we can't really put him in the immediate
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area on October 27 1989 but we can put him in the state of Ohio for the uh the time
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of the abduction roughly and the whole time that she was missing so he's an interesting suspect again the
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issue becomes how did he get the phone numbers to contact these girls how did somebody on the Run
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somebody unfamiliar with the area no ties to the area how would he have come into communication with with Amy plus
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with the others that received phone calls that were connected to Amy's case right
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in Amy's case and in others I'm not going to say all but it has been reported that the phone numbers were
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unlisted so it's not as easy as some have pointed out where they say well you could have just been driving down the
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street and saw a potential victim and followed her home and said oh they live at 123 James place I'm going to get into
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the phone book and try to find that address and phone number and now I can call that number it's just it wasn't
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that easy in in some of these cases so Stanton looks good because he would be the type of offender that would carry
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this out the issue again is putting him there at that time and giving him the the
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knowledge he would need to carry out a ruse that was similar to he had in other cases well I'm like you said before with
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other suspects law enforcement saying they don't believe some of those suspects are capable of a crime like
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this law enforcement is definitely probably saying hey yeah he's capable of this more than capable yes
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foreign [Music] [Music] we're back you filthy animals every one of you filthy as hell
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um okay so captain now let's get into Dane run Uncle our Dean Runkle info obviously has several sources but the
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main source uh for the first part is a bombshell article from the Cleveland Scene titled Person of Interest the FBI
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finally has a top suspect in the Amy mihalovic murder and this of course by James Renner and the article is from
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2008. now the article starts off by repeating statements from an eyewitness on the day
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Amy was abducted this states that the eyewitness saw a man walk up to Amy put his hand on her back he leans down to
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whisper something in her ear then the man puts an arm around Amy's shoulders and leads her away
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this eyewitness is Amy's age and describes the man as Caucasian his hair is thick he is wearing a beige
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windbreaker with plaid lining front pressed khakis and a button-up shirt we'll come back to this eyewitness in a
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bit the article states that just like Amy at least three others received phone calls similar to the one that Amy said
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she received before she was abducted as we've commented over the years this number should be debatable we've seen
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higher numbers but the words directly from law enforcement are that they believe there were two or three calls
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related to Amy's case the girls in this article of course now they're they're grown up
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these girls went to school in North Olmsted Ohio North Olmsted is about a 15-minute Drive south of Bay Village so
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not far away and more importantly the Two Towns would have shared the same area code
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216. this is important as it is believed that the call to Amy that set up the arrangement to meet at the bay Square
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shopping center came from Amy's area code remember we talked about billing and how billing was conducted by the
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phone companies back in 1989 right everybody who hears this case at the first they go well why the hell didn't
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they just Trace that call they were only billing long distance calls differently
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than local calls so there's no record of local calls because they don't bill for
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them they just charge you for the monthly service same goes for these other two or three
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calls they would have come from that 216 area code now that is still a huge area that's still a
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large population but when we're talking about a case that has gone unsolved for 30 years we have said how many suspects
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there are this somewhat at least shrinks that pull a bit let's take that info and go exploring shall we so let's say
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those calls are in fact connected that the caller to the three girls in North Olmsted is the same man that called Amy
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so now this means you need to find a link between these four girls Amy included all of whom we should mention
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were 10 or 11 years old at this time the link could be a person place a club or an organization it could be anything
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but it needs to connect all four girls and this unknown suspect the article states that in early 2005 an
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agent working the Amy case contacted the girls from North Olmsted the agent wanted to know if the girls
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went to the Lake Erie Nature and Science Center they had and in fact the article claims
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that they each went there in the weeks leading up to Amy's abduction Amy too went to the Nature and Science
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Center but the article does not specify when her last visit was or how close to her Abduction the last visit would have
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been that information may not be known to anyone at this point including the police and FBI but what we do know and
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can say is Amy had been to the center before and on multiple occasions keep in mind this Center is close in
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proximity to both her school her home and the bay Square Shopping Plaza and based off of where the other three girls
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attended School Amy would have lived closer to the center than all three of them
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the three girls were asked if they remembered signing in at a check-in or a log book by the front doors of the
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center this being writing their names and phone numbers in this book received a mixed response from the now
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grown up girls but keep in mind this is 15 and a half years later right eventually at least two of these now
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grown women contacted James Renner passing along that they had been questioned about their possible
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connection to the Lake Erie Nature and Science Center back in 1989. then a man contacted Renner about
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someone he was told was the suspect that the police may have been asking about a man who once had volunteered at the
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Nature Center and who was a science teacher back in 1989. that man was Dean Runkle Dean was born in New London and
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grew up not far from where Amy's body would be found just a little more than three months
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after she was abducted this is most interesting as retired special FBI Agent Phil torsny who is
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currently active on Amy's case and has been for years stated that he believed that Amy was
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transported out of Bay Village after she was kidnapped as the town is too dense too close-knit to be a likely place to
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commit murder he stated that the murder likely took place in Ashland County which the murderer was probably familiar
00:28:43
with Runkle was born in 1944. After High School he attended Bowling Green University majoring in education he got
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his first teaching job teaching science at sailor Way Middle School this was in 1967.
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he earned the young educator of the Year award while teaching there he was also a pretty good ragtime piano
00:29:07
player good enough to play at Cedar Point for a regular gig during the summers in fact one point he quit
00:29:14
teaching and played piano at Disneyland for two years yeah eventually he went back into teaching yes and then he did
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quit again in 1987. at this time he returned to New London and moved back in with his parents
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he got a job working at a pet store it is said that when the store when the store's mice population became
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overwhelming Runkle donated mice to local nature centers some have said he very likely gave some to the Lake Erie
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Nature Center so if the Lake Erie Nature Center and Science Center is in fact the link
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between these four girls Amy included and if the calls were in fact connected Dean run Uncle would have been someone
00:29:59
probably linked to the center during that time in the fall of 1989 and just side note
00:30:08
we all know Amy was abducted in the fall of 1989. Runkle applied for and was hired at horde Junior High in Amherst
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Ohio Runkle continued to work there until 2003 and after that he moved to Florida
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now earlier we spoke about the young person who saw the man approach Amy that day outside of the shopping plaza now
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over the years this eyewitness has been shown many photos of men and asked if this man looks like the man you saw with
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Amy that day right it was reported in this article that when this witness was shown a picture of Dean Runkle the
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response was there have not been many photos that have been this close I would definitely tell them meaning law
00:30:56
enforcement to investigate this guy this is interesting for several reasons we have one of the eyewitnesses being
00:31:04
shown a photo and saying hey this out of all the photos that I've seen today and out of all the photos that
00:31:11
I've seen over the years this guy looks the closest out of all the photos I would tell investigators to look into
00:31:19
this guy the weird thing about Runkle is we know that he was a teacher and there have
00:31:28
been many people that have gone back and tried to well not try to they did interview former students of his
00:31:35
just like some of the other other suspects that we've discussed today and on yesterday's show it's really a mixed
00:31:42
bag of opinions about this individual there are some that say you know Dean did some weird things and he was a weird
00:31:49
guy he was odd he was even creepy at times he said some strange things right like
00:31:55
to handle rats that's weird but then there were other there were other kids that had the you know very extremely
00:32:02
positive things to say about Dean Runkle saying that he really inspired them to continue their education and inspired
00:32:10
them to go into teaching themselves or really got them to take a strong interest in science and some in biology
00:32:18
and some of the things that Dean was doing in his classes so again a mixed bag of opinions about his nature and his
00:32:26
behavior right but just to be clear you could be you could have sick fetishes and still
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be a good teacher or good worker well yeah you could be you could be the best guy in the world one minute and
00:32:40
then be a total you know a-hole the next I I don't doubt that at all but the reason why I point that out is there are
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so many things out there that just straight up label him as a creep right and I think you know if we're gonna if
00:32:55
we're going to label him a creep I think that's hard to do on our show because I'm seeing mixed opinions by
00:33:03
by you know his students throughout the years right but as out of all the suspects when you see Dean Runkle's
00:33:11
picture and you see the sketch you go well there's your guy I mean this is it almost looks like a
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drawing of his of his picture what I would label the third composite sketch yes right there there again is where I
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think we have a problem with there being a composite sketch out there or the fact
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that there was there was four of them that's what I'm getting at he where you would say he looks like the third one
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you may not say that he looks like one two or four right so right that's that's where that
00:33:43
composite sketch gets a gets a little weird now also the other thing too is this individual and I look I believe her
00:33:52
statements if she's saying this is the closest that I've seen since then I don't doubt that statement at all I
00:34:00
don't doubt that she believes that to be true the other thing we have to keep in mind
00:34:05
along those same lines though this she was abducted Amy was abducted in October of 1989. this witness saw this
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man for a very limited time at the Plaza on that afternoon and then is seeing this photo of Dean run Uncle 19 years
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later right in 2009 the Cleveland Scene ran another article this one is titled new witness to Amy's abduction IDs
00:34:30
Runkle it says and I'll just read the first part of this article because it's not a long one for nearly 20 years Rick
00:34:38
Burns waited patiently for the police to return to his Auto Body Shop across the
00:34:44
street from the station to show him photos of the man he saw with Amy mihalovic the day of her abduction
00:34:51
but they never came Burns maintains that a strange man with shaggy hair parked in a sedan in his
00:34:59
personal space closest to the Bay Square Plaza on October 27 1989. he remembers the date because it was
00:35:08
also the day he brought in his newly restored truck to the shop to show off to his buddies and was miffed to find
00:35:15
that somebody had parked in his spot Burns says the strange man later pulled around the shop to the pumps where he
00:35:24
was standing in the back seat was a young girl he believes to have been Amy mihalovic the man asked Burns for
00:35:32
directions to i-480 and then left two days after Amy disappeared FBI agents came to Burns's shop and to look
00:35:42
through receipts for the previous two months they took his statement and that was that he never heard from them again
00:35:52
now Burns reviewed a series of photographs of suspects and non-suspects without hesitation according to this
00:35:59
article Burns picked out former Amherst Middle School science teacher Dean Runkle as the man he saw at his shop
00:36:07
that day basically this is an eyewitness statement saying within days of the abduction I gave a report to police that
00:36:18
I saw a man shaggy hair man asked me for directions and in the backseat of his car
00:36:25
I believe was Amy mihalovic I then waited for nearly 20 years for them to come back and show me pictures of
00:36:32
possible suspects they never came back wow all right where do we start here because this looks bad for Runkle on the
00:36:41
surface but when you really kind of start scratching and clawing through this statement and through this article
00:36:46
look I believe this article was written with the best of intentions I also believe that Rick Burns is is a good guy
00:36:52
and means well and means the best for the situation and probably is just simply trying to help yeah but who's the
00:37:00
article written by um I believe it was written by well there's there's multiple reporters
00:37:05
involved in this article so I don't want to I want to cite anybody specifically without having all the names but
00:37:12
what I'm getting at here Captain is we now have a very public statement by the Bay Village Police Department that says
00:37:21
that kind of contradicts the statement given by Rick Burns in this article okay so their statement is yes we did talk to
00:37:28
Rick Burns within days after Amy's abduction yes he gave a statement he his statement at the time says he didn't see
00:37:37
anybody he didn't see anything suspicious he didn't report anything suspicious the article says
00:37:43
he reported something suspicious and then waited nearly 20 years for the police to return to ask him questions
00:37:49
again Bay Village Police Department are also on record saying that Rick is a very
00:37:55
good guy he's done nothing but try to help this investigation but the problem is they're going to believe his
00:38:02
statement that he gave within days after the abduction and not the one that he came back to give them nearly 20 years
00:38:09
later which they say is a different story I've not seen the police reports I've not seen their notes I've not seen
00:38:17
the case File I do believe everything they're saying though for several reasons I do believe Rick Burns is
00:38:23
probably a good guy that only wants to help I also believe that he probably believes somewhat what he's saying now
00:38:30
saying that he saw just misremembering it it probably wasn't Amy and it probably wasn't on the day in question
00:38:36
right and the reason why I say that is for several reasons he says the girl that I saw in the back of the
00:38:44
car I believe she was Amy mihalovic well if you're saying that within two days of the abduction one if you believe that
00:38:53
prior to that statement if you've already made that connection in your mind prior to that statement
00:39:00
you should have gone to the police yourself to give that statement not waiting for them to come to you to look
00:39:05
for receipts receipts and then ask you questions right and then on top of that if you firmly believe that that is in
00:39:12
fact what you saw then you don't wait for them to come back to you you remind them hey I have information that I've
00:39:18
passed along what's going on with this yeah and I think with Ron Cole there's a leap to
00:39:24
kind of figure out how he got the numbers to make contact with these girls if they are connected uh the Nature
00:39:31
Center I don't think there's 100 proof of that I think the tough thing about Ronco is that he passes the
00:39:38
eye test of one of the the drawings and I think that's hard to for people to get
00:39:45
around you see those pictures side by side and you go wow that looks like the guy and I I think people have a hard
00:39:51
time uh moving on from that so I mean there are some other suspicious things with Runkle I mean you
00:39:59
said that and you're exactly right in your statement of we can't 100 connect him to that nature
00:40:06
center and some are saying that the Nature Center is kind of the intersection between these girls and the
00:40:13
Killer where where that gets a little skewed is we can't 100 put them there however it has been reported that he has
00:40:24
that Runkle has made some incriminating statements in regards to his involvement
00:40:28
or possible involvement with the Lake Erie Nature Center again we don't have 100 proof from law enforcement stating
00:40:38
that he was a volunteer around that time that we can put him there within the weeks or months leading up to the
00:40:45
abduction he does have a general knowledge being from the the roundabout area where Amy's
00:40:52
body is found was found and that seems to be a general consensus amongst the experts in her case that the killer the
00:41:00
abductor knew that area that there was something familiar or something something
00:41:06
that is of bigger importance to the killer rather than just driving and driving and driving and coming to a
00:41:15
place out in the middle of nowhere and dumping the body so there is a connection there as well
00:41:20
right um but again I'm I'm with you Captain it's uh loose these are loose connections some of them seem a bit of a
00:41:29
leap we would be remiss if we didn't bring up a rumor regarding Runkle and I State this as a rumor because I've seen
00:41:39
people try to prove it either way and I don't know which to be true right the other rumor is that at some point in his
00:41:49
teaching career they became aware the Educators became aware that they did not have Runkle's
00:41:57
fingerprints on file and this is something that standard practice throughout the state of Ohio right when
00:42:03
they learned this and he wasn't the only one there were other teachers throughout
00:42:07
the state that they did not have their fingerprints on file and what they did was to try to bring their records up to
00:42:12
date they went around to all these teachers and said hey we need you to go down here and get fingerprinted we're
00:42:17
just going to add it to your file no biggie and the rumor is that when approached with this request run Uncle
00:42:24
who was close to retirement who was close to collecting a pension retired without notice without pension
00:42:32
and that he just left very quickly after this request yeah that's very fishy that's true there are people that say
00:42:41
that that is not in fact true I can't prove it either way and that's why I took you and that's why the captain took
00:42:48
you through his work history we know when he was employed with the state of Ohio as a teacher and we know when he
00:42:55
was not employed now Amy was abducted in 1989 he didn't you know he continued to work there
00:43:01
until 2003. it probably wouldn't be that hard to figure out if there's a connection
00:43:06
between him and like Oprah's or something and if if he is receiving some kind of uh you know pension for from the
00:43:14
state and that would kind of clear up that rumor well and I I think you're absolutely right on that but I've seen
00:43:21
people with two different claims in both stating that they have evidence from the
00:43:27
state of Ohio to back up their claims and they're saying opposite things one is saying he retired without a pension
00:43:34
and retired abruptly well we just need somebody that works at opers to be a little shady and then the other thing in
00:43:42
fact he continued to work there and submitted to their request so I can't say for certain which one is right
00:43:49
you're right uh somebody that's on their lunch break at opers give the captain a
00:43:53
call he's available or send me an email and then just tell me tell me the information and I know you're breaking
00:44:00
the law and you might get fired for it but chances are you're not going to get caught those records might be public
00:44:06
record at some point they might be they might be okay well can we move on from run uncle in in a
00:44:14
sense that as much as we could from any of these suspects right I think all of them look good in
00:44:21
some form or fashion and they're all being presented this week as suspects that we believe that is if
00:44:28
anybody gives a [ __ ] that the garage is list these people would be in our top ten you know there are reasons we see to
00:44:36
dismiss some of these suspects but also plenty of reasons to keep them on the list as
00:44:42
suspicious characters one thing that I think we should include on our top 10 suspect list
00:44:50
would be the unknown male Theory and in actuality this Theory may have the highest probability out of any of the
00:45:01
suspects so one of the leading detectives on the case back in the day we already
00:45:07
discussed him Jim Tompkins said quote of all the suspects 20 to 25 were most interesting but we have never had the
00:45:17
sense of yes this is our guy authorities believe the unknown male is still out there and there are ways to catching him
00:45:27
there are several ways in fact first are the things Amy had with her that day Amy
00:45:34
had these things when she was taken after all of these years of searching none have ever been found
00:45:41
some are rare enough to be memorable and unique enough to be clearly identifiable
00:45:48
as we have said before it is not unusual for this kind of criminal to make the Arrogant error of keeping a Memento of
00:45:56
his crime a trophy if the unknown male kept one or more of these objects even for a short time someone might have
00:46:03
noticed the more distinctive of these items is a pair of shoes when her body was found Amy was dressed
00:46:11
almost exactly as she had been when she disappeared in October but forensic investigation has confirmed that she was
00:46:18
not simply seized and slain she had eaten again and after she was taken so she ate at least once the experts are
00:46:27
certain that her clothes had been removed then put back on her body after death all except her shoes and her
00:46:35
earrings the shoes were uncommon they were black leather ankle boots with vertical rows
00:46:41
of silver studs some have theorized maybe the killer had a problem getting them back on her feet
00:46:47
yeah he either tossed them out or maybe he kept them for a period of time now Stephen Etter says the earrings are
00:46:56
even more likely souvenir items they are particularly important just the kind of
00:47:02
things the offender might give to another female they were tiny blue turquoise silhouettes of horses heads
00:47:11
according to Amy's mother they were mounted on gold metallic studs Amy also had her school backpack which
00:47:19
was a fairly common blue denim design with red piping and black plastic buckles and a plain white nylon windbreaker the
00:47:29
last item Amy's dad gave her this black leather folder with a brass clasp on it and it had the Buick 3 Chevron logo and
00:47:40
the Legend Best in Class on it this is a fairly unique item as well another thing that could get this
00:47:48
individual apprehended is actions and behaviors of this unknown male a tip needed from someone in the public to put
00:47:56
law enforcement on to the right guy here are some notes from the Thomas Kelly Cleveland magazine article this is
00:48:04
from the experts regarding the makeup of this unknown male obviously because his
00:48:10
identity remains unknown these are simply theories not facts but they state that some of this information when he is
00:48:17
finally caught will be remarkably close to much of the description provided by FBI experts they go on to talk about the
00:48:26
suspect composite sketch that was released and saying remember the undistinguished drawing of the slightly
00:48:33
built man unremarkable in appearance they say forget it at least set it aside because it could be that the poster man
00:48:42
is not an accurate portrayal of the unknown male they say this is very possible because the eyewitnesses would
00:48:50
have had no reason to scrutinize this man there was nothing extraordinary about his actions or appearance
00:48:58
Ren emphasizes that people should not hesitate to contact law enforcement if they have some information but the man
00:49:07
doesn't look like the drawing and he goes on to say I cannot say that strongly enough even if you suspect
00:49:14
somebody and he doesn't look like the drawing regardless that there are four of them
00:49:20
out there contact law enforcement yeah they go on to state that the offender what they can say for certain right is
00:49:27
the offender is a white male at the time of the crime he is believed to be 25 to
00:49:32
35 years of age this would have put him if he was in his late 30s or to mid 30s would have put
00:49:39
him older than the average for first-time child aggressors they State he is not remarkable in appearance he's
00:49:46
within average ranges of height weight and build he may look presentable but not
00:49:51
accomplished or professional he is socially marginalized according to Etter not in the mainstream not a
00:49:59
run-of-the-mill citizen he won't fit in with his peers very well especially women and the people who know him will
00:50:06
describe him as odd or difficult it's likely that he was living alone with a single roommate or maybe still at
00:50:14
his parents house at the time of the crime it is most unlikely that he was in a successful marriage with a normal Home
00:50:22
and Family Life one of the most intriguing aspects of the report is that the killer was most
00:50:28
likely to have undergone some sort of dramatic change in his behavior personality or appearance in the weeks
00:50:35
preceding the crime he developed a sudden compulsion or obsessive disorder experience a personal
00:50:42
catastrophe or an emotional setback he may have started drinking heavily or stopped drinking suddenly
00:50:49
he may have gotten into hard drugs or quit a drug habit there was a drastic change in his life maybe a sudden
00:50:56
fascination with a cult a radical religious group dick Wren says something happened to this man in the fall of 1989
00:51:04
something that would have been noticeable to close friends or relatives there was a pre-event stressor something
00:51:11
that took him from fantasy to action this may have been reflected in a dramatic change in his physical
00:51:18
appearance he let his hair grow long or cut it very short his health suffered his weight
00:51:23
fluctuated there were changes in his appearance or lifestyle in addition one important logistical aspect should be
00:51:32
noted this man was not passing through authorities are confident that the unknown male has reason to know this
00:51:40
area there is the need for such a predator to select a hunting ground where he can move comfortably through
00:51:47
the tall grass another expert explains that the Ashland County location is just as important
00:51:54
this was not random when you are disposing of something that could ruin your entire life you are going to be
00:52:01
careful the unknown male knew County Road 1181. he had been there on that lonely stretch
00:52:09
of asphalt before he knew he could quickly Place Amy's body just over a Shallow Ridge a few
00:52:15
yards from the pavement and expect that it would go undiscovered for weeks or maybe even months
00:52:22
Ren confirms this conclusion saying yes we think he was familiar with Bay Village and familiar with the area in
00:52:30
Ashland the experts go another step saying we believe he had knowledge of the family personal knowledge in
00:52:38
considerable detail I could go on and on with this unknown male Theory I do think
00:52:45
that this is one that deserves to be on the list a lot of people were out there going well you didn't make it through
00:52:50
10. of course we didn't make it through 10. there this is such a huge case and we still have some suspects that we
00:52:56
would like to vet a little further to see if they should fall on our list I think the ones that we covered this week
00:53:03
are very good suspects they should be and are on other lists out there I think they're the most popular yeah and and
00:53:11
this case along with several others out there but you don't see this in a lot of
00:53:16
cases I would describe this case as having a tornado of suspects there there are so
00:53:22
many of them out there and when you try to wrap your head around it you can't because it's like
00:53:27
it's like on The Wizard of Oz when when Dorothy is being taken away and you can she sees uh the farm hands for a little
00:53:34
bit then she sees the witch for a little bit yeah and that's what this case is like it's a tornado of suspects when you
00:53:40
try to focus on one there's one another one that will fly by and pop in your mind and another will come up here and
00:53:47
there throughout uh your time on this case now there are some truly great sources for
00:53:57
information on Amy's case unfortunately when a case is 30 years old and 30 years
00:54:02
unsolved many different people have had the opportunity to take a look at it offer their opinions expert opinions and
00:54:10
tell the story of the abduction and the investigation we have bitten off a big chunk of that I
00:54:18
think in our coverage on True Crime garage now at five episodes dedicated to her case but if you need some more and
00:54:28
if you want to know where some of this information came some of it ripped right from the pages we used sources like the
00:54:34
Plain Dealer magazine this was in October 21st 1990 issue where they featured an article called
00:54:41
Amy by Michael Heaton we obviously talked about the Cleveland magazine October 1998 article titled who killed
00:54:51
Amy by Thomas Kelly there of course is James renner's book Amy my search for her killer and there is also who killed
00:54:58
Amy mihalovic a podcast by our good friend Bill Huffman so there are plenty of sources out there at some point if
00:55:07
there is some new information we will revisit Amy's case again and probably again until this thing is
00:55:15
solved I will say this though captain coming up on the 30-year marker of that tragic day of that terrible day
00:55:26
I find myself after looking into this case again within the last few weeks of a restored hope
00:55:34
I I wasn't going to you know when we covered this in June just before crime con I said this to a few people at crime con
00:55:44
and thanks to everybody who made the trip I said this to a few people at crime con
00:55:48
but I I refused to say it on our show and I told you this off Mike at that time I had lost
00:55:56
all hope that this thing would ever be solved and I I just want to throw it out there that that's how I felt at that
00:56:02
time and I'm going to throw it out there that within the past few weeks that hope
00:56:07
has been restored I'm feeling better about this case as we're moving towards that 30-year marker well I think it's
00:56:14
that's one of the reasons why we we cover these things to try to get the word out I think it's going to come
00:56:20
information is going to come from a unlikely source and and that's going to lead us to some answers
00:56:27
[Music] Nick do we have a recommended reading this week why of course we do Captain
00:56:37
this week we are recommending the blood on My Hands by Shannon O'Leary this is an autobiography but it's a story about
00:56:47
her family and a story about her and unfortunately it involves horrific abuse and a terrifying murder that played out
00:56:55
behind the scenes of her family life so check out the blood on My Hands by Shannon O'Leary you can find that title
00:57:02
as well as a bunch of other ones if you go to truecrimegarage.com and click on the recommended page until next week be
00:57:09
good be kind and don't you dare litter thank you [Music] [Applause] [Music]