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00:01:10
John B Ramsey she was strangled with a cord little myth Colorado 6-year-old murder victim Jean
00:01:17
Benet Ramsey unknown Intruder her [Applause] brother Victory John B oh my God they still have not interviewed the
00:01:37
parents I Didn't Do It John Ram didn't do it and we didn't have a clue of anybody who
00:01:46
did my life has been H from that day forward and I want nothing more than to find out who was responsible for
00:01:58
this [Music] 911 emergency please 55 15 Street what's going on there man we are kidnapping
00:02:13
right please explain to me what's going on okay there we have a there's a note left and our daughter is gone a note was
00:02:20
left and your daughter is gone how old is your daughter 6 years old she's gone years
00:02:26
[Applause] old how long AG go I don't know I just found the not my God does it say who
00:02:34
Cher what does it say who Cher I don't know there's a there's a ransom note here it's a ransom note it says
00:02:43
sbtc [Applause] Victory please okay what's your name are you I'm the mother oh my God please I'm
00:02:56
okay I'm sending a KN over okay do you know how long she no I don't please we just got up she
00:03:03
right here oh my God please okay I am honey take a deep breath okay Cathy Cathy Cathy
00:03:14
[Applause] [Music] Cathy thank you for the beautiful trailer for this week here captain and thank you for
00:03:34
playing paty's 911 call now just to clear up any type of confusion I think we should jump right into a a transcript
00:03:44
of that 911 call so we can all have a clear understanding what is said on both ends from the 911 operator as well as
00:03:52
paty Ramsey when 911 picks up the call paty Ramsey says police 911 what what's going
00:04:00
on ma'am paty Ramsey 7551 15th Street what's going on there ma'am paty we have a kidnapping hurry please 911 explain to
00:04:12
me what's going on okay py there we have a there's a note left and our daughter's
00:04:19
gone 911 a note was left and your daughter's gone py yes 911 how old is your daughter she is 6 years old she's blonde
00:04:31
6 years old how long ago was this py I don't know I just got the note and my daughter's gone 911 does it say who took
00:04:41
her py what 911 does it say who took her paty no I don't know there's a there's a
00:04:49
ransom note here 911 it's a ransom note paty it says sbtc Victory please 911 okay what's your
00:05:00
name are you Kath py paty Ramsey I'm the mother oh my God please 911 okay I'm sending an officer over
00:05:10
okay paty please 911 do you know how long she's been gone no I don't please we just got up and she's not here oh my
00:05:20
God please 911 okay Cal py please send somebody 911 I am honey py please not 911 take a deep breath in py she says
00:05:33
hurry hurry hurry 911 says py paty py at the start of this call it appears that paty Ramsey is asking for the police now
00:05:44
we only hear her say police there are some reports that state that that is inaudible that we cannot tell what py is
00:05:52
saying in that first line yeah and there's some people that speculate that she actually goes to say ambulance and
00:05:59
cuts herself off and says please she's immediately asked what is going on to which she responds giving her address
00:06:07
again what is going on there ma'am she states we have a kidnapping hurry please what I decipher from this very
00:06:15
quick little snippet at the beginning of the call is I kind of think good and bad when we
00:06:22
look at the the scales of Justice in regards to paty Ramsey she's doing exactly what I would expect
00:06:32
a mother who is terrified as at what could be going on her daughter is gone and found a ransom note right she is
00:06:41
asking for the type of help that she needs police she is ask she is stating where she is located and immediately
00:06:49
stating the problem at hand we have a kidnapping and then asking hurry please we've gone through a lot of these 911
00:06:57
calls over the years yeah they drive me nuts one thing that I've always called into question is when we have a lengthy
00:07:06
call and the person is failing to ask for help to respond to the situation until later in the call right here this
00:07:16
call roughly is about I was trying to time it it's roughly it's a little over a minute a minute 42 seconds or
00:07:25
something and we have within 7 Seconds of the all she is actually asking for help she's asking for someone to respond
00:07:34
to the scene right so I think a good sign for paty where I say that I think a bad sign for py is and this might be
00:07:42
just too much speculation on my part but it almost appears to me in somewhat of a
00:07:48
manner that she believed that she could ask for the type of help that she wants police or ambulance she states where
00:07:56
they are located and states the problem at hand the kidnapping part of me wonders if she thought that the
00:08:02
conversation was going to go any further than that right that okay now I'm off the hook I've made this call I've told
00:08:09
them the help that we need let's wait for them to respond very good here we have the 911
00:08:15
operator asking again explain to me what is going on okay one thing that I will point out that I think is good for py
00:08:23
Ramsey here is and when you mean good good in the sense that let's say she's in ENT of any
00:08:31
wrongdoing mhm she goes immediately into we have a there's a note left and our daughter's gone meaning where my first
00:08:41
suspicion was that this this conversation was going to be over as soon as she said there's a kidnapping
00:08:47
please hurry right then she's asked what is going on she without hesitation goes
00:08:52
into what is going on she doesn't stumble you know like I would expect somebody that has a lot to hide to
00:09:01
possibly stumble at that point in the conversation a lot of yeah a lot of O uh uh and then there's several back and
00:09:08
forth about you know our daughter's gone and there's a note here she gives a brief
00:09:14
description that it's six years old she's blonde she's a six-year-old girl yeah a lot of people give her a check
00:09:21
mark in the in the guilty column for never saying her daughter's name but and fairness to pany ramsy she's never asked
00:09:32
what the daughter's name is how old is she correct what's your name correct and then we do have a portion here where I
00:09:40
find it interesting that 911 is okay what's your name are you Cath so there's several there's several um versions of
00:09:50
this call out there right uh I find this one to be the most complete one that I have seen and so I'm going with this one
00:09:58
I I hear her say the operator say are you Cath which just I find that interesting
00:10:06
because it doesn't she doesn't seem to know where the Call's coming from at that time almost like she's going to ask
00:10:12
her are you Kathleen or Kathy right that yeah I I think it's probably just inaudible and and that's the closest
00:10:21
somebody could put down to decipher so I have paty Ramsey of course she's asking for help numerous times
00:10:31
asking that they please hurry numerous times throughout this call but even in this very short call six or seven
00:10:37
seconds into it is the first time that she asked for help and then again around the 40 second Mark and basically the
00:10:44
whole second half of the call is her asking for help or for them to please hurry so where I always stand on those
00:10:52
is if we have a situation where somebody calls 911 and they are not asking for help because that's essentially that's
00:10:58
all 911 is there for you to call and request help assistance of some sort yeah my issue
00:11:06
with a lot of these 911 calls is is just the the lack of calmness and and obviously that's easier said than done
00:11:16
but yes you read the note you yelled for your husband you ran to your husband you
00:11:22
had some kind of conversation with your husband he reads the note then he says hey call police which one
00:11:30
out of the two individuals we know which one's cmer John Ramsey so maybe you should call because like you said after
00:11:38
you ask for help maybe that's where you think it should stop it's normally where
00:11:42
it doesn't stop so no 911 is going to keep you or whoever calls on the line as long as they can unless you have really
00:11:51
good reason to not be on the call yeah and this this call also gets put into question
00:11:57
because I would think think when you start talking to somebody and saying hey we have an emergency here's where we're
00:12:03
at by me talking to you the reason why they keep you on the phone is to start calming you
00:12:09
down so as you as the call progresses py doesn't get more calm I think this to me is either a sign that
00:12:23
she's faking it and she's a drama queen or this is happening in real time and this happen so quickly and as they're
00:12:34
asking her questions she's still processing the fact that her kid is gone and what the hell are we going to
00:12:43
do yeah and one of the things I find really interesting and I believe John Douglas talks about this is one of the
00:12:51
key things that he believes that she didn't know much about the note and we'll go get to the note later but a lot
00:12:59
of people speculate that she wrote it well if she wrote it and they said who's the note
00:13:06
from that if she was really familiar with the note she would have just said sbtc but it's almost like she has to
00:13:15
flip to that part of the note and then she reads from down to upwards she reads sbtc that makes no sense so she goes to
00:13:27
the next word to try to find the answer sbtc nope that's not a good answer Victory oh that's not a good answer
00:13:37
either see what I'm saying so if somebody is more familiar with the note they they probably wouldn't have read
00:13:44
from down to up probably wouldn't have had to flip to the back uh to the third page to find the answer that's assuming
00:13:52
that that she's doing that but it sounds like the way she's describing things on
00:13:57
that 911 call it sounds as if that is in fact what she is doing yeah it'd be very
00:14:02
good acting I would think if she's faking that well you said drama queen I do believe she took some uh drama
00:14:09
courses be it in high school or college I but here's what it drives me nuts is like on we're always constantly going
00:14:18
well here's how I would have reacted or this is how I think somebody should react where because if you did if John
00:14:25
Ramsey called and said my name is John Ramsey my my daughter John B Ramsay is missing she's six years old she's blonde
00:14:32
she's about however tall that they would persecute him for being too calm and not being emotional
00:14:42
enough right well I to me I don't try to look too much into the to try to figure
00:14:49
out the emotions of the person making the call I never do that my whole thing is just I always question when they are
00:14:57
finally asking for help because that's that's what 911 is it's truly a Lifeline it is there only to be asking for help
00:15:09
and when somebody is in a situation as severe as this I expect them to be asking for help very quickly in the call
00:15:18
and the reason why I always reference that is because if it's a put on if you're only calling 911 because you feel
00:15:25
that that's what you are supposed to do or how you are supposed to act in this situation and you in fact did something
00:15:32
terrible then really you don't want help to show up inside deep down inside you you're hoping it's delayed as possible
00:15:40
because you don't want to have to explain anything to anyone right because you don't want them to know what you've
00:15:45
done so I always take that into account when I when I listen to these I never try to listen to the emotion because as
00:15:51
you very uh very well pointed out we don't know how each one of us would behave or react to these different
00:16:00
situations we there is no right way to act or wrong way to behave on these calls and the call gets a little more
00:16:09
interesting at the end because there is no okay see you later or we'll be here waiting there's no end and that's where
00:16:21
I believe possibly at that point John Ramsay is trying to tell paty Ramsey something
00:16:29
there's something going on at that house that is pulling her attention away from
00:16:35
the phone call and and at that point going that minute and 40 some seconds on the phone to that mother could have felt
00:16:43
like an hour so she might have been like look I said all I need to say now there's stuff
00:16:50
going on here mhm and now I'm talking to these individuals then the phone hangs up and it's always been kind of a
00:16:57
mystery what has been said at the end this is from a 2016 story on bustle.com there's long been debate over what
00:17:10
exactly happened at the tail end of the of the recording with some arguing the call did not immediately disconnect
00:17:17
after paty hung up the receiver and that a third voice can be heard the 911 tape
00:17:23
has been analyzed nine times nine different times by everyone from the FBI to to the US Secret Service to
00:17:30
professional audio Laboratories to CBS to an amateur internet sleuth neither the FBI or the Secret
00:17:40
Service have reported hearing a third Voice or any other extended conversation now if we back up a few
00:17:49
years before this 2016 story on bustle.com from Steve Thomas's book we have this from page 15
00:17:59
the telephone call gave us a Cornerstone of evidence when he says us he means the
00:18:05
boulder detectives working the case not so much for what was easily heard but for what was found when experts washed
00:18:13
out the background noise it has been my experience as a police officer that such
00:18:18
emergency calls are virtually unchallengeable they are tape recorded and either something was said or it is
00:18:26
not right tapes can be so powerful that prosecutors regularly play them so a jury can hear the actual voices and
00:18:35
emotions of the participants in preliminary examinations detectives thought they could hear some
00:18:42
more words being spoken between the time pansy Ramsey said hurry hurry hurry and
00:18:47
when the call was terminated however the FBI and the US Secret Service could not lift anything
00:18:54
from the background noise on the tape as a final effort several months later we contacted the electronic Wizards at the
00:19:02
Aerospace Corporation in Los Angeles and asked them to try to decipher The Sounds
00:19:08
behind the noise their work produced a startling conclusion paty apparently having trouble hanging up the telephone
00:19:16
and before it rested in the Cradle she was heard to moan help me Jesus help me Jesus her husband was heard to bark
00:19:25
we're not talking to you and in the background was a young sounding voice what did you find according to Steve
00:19:33
Thomas he says this young sounding voice was John benet's brother Burke the ramies would repeatedly tell us again
00:19:42
meaning the detectives that their son did not wake up at any point throughout the night of the crime he says we knew
00:19:50
differently yeah but there's there's so many problems with all this I mean CBS did an analysis on on this to eliminate
00:20:01
all the background noises nearly impossible so I don't care what kind of state of the art system you have um it's
00:20:11
that's just not how audio works there's distortions and and and things that are happening naturally because it's a phone
00:20:19
call that you're not going to be able to eliminate so and I again I think these are it's
00:20:27
one of these dumb points that okay if you prove that she's saying you know Jesus Jesus help me Jesus or whatever
00:20:37
and then you hear in the background which I hear something like that and then I also hear some other noise which
00:20:44
they're claiming is John ramsy and he's saying to then Burke and when you watch the CBS special I think they do a good
00:20:53
job to go okay that's possible there was also speculation for for a couple years
00:20:59
after that that she was saying um what have I done so there's been all these you know
00:21:12
different accounts of what she's saying okay let's just say that you're saying what CBS is saying and and what
00:21:21
what the detectives are saying is true and then they came to you and said that well Burke wasn't up so we don't we
00:21:31
don't know well we know that Burke had to wake up at some point and we know that Burke was a awake by the time the
00:21:38
police got there so what does it prove other than their misremembering and there's plenty of
00:21:48
detectives and plenty of law enforcement and plenty of FBI agents that have looked at this case and said you know
00:21:54
just let's take a step back when paty Ramsey says well I checked in on John Benet and then I went down the steps and
00:22:03
then it later changes to I went down the step saw the note then I went to check on
00:22:09
her that could be in that moment of trauma if she has no involvement and her daughter going missing she might never
00:22:18
remember which order it happened she is just telling you the best of her ability
00:22:25
what she thinks happened so take that same scenario uh Burke wasn't up when I was on the 911 call well maybe you're
00:22:35
misremembering maybe because of the trauma because of all the stuff going on in your head and in the
00:22:41
house that uh he wasn't up when you went to make the call he was up when you hung up the
00:22:50
phone we'll continue along on the timeline uh as we go here but according to eyewitness report courts Burke Ramsey
00:22:59
did not wake up until after police had arrived on the scene I want to jump back here Captain before we get into this
00:23:07
timeline a little more because I want to really focus in on something that you said regarding that that tail into the
00:23:14
call what has been called into question and has been a debate of what was said if something was said and what was
00:23:22
really going on I think there's good reason to debate that I think there good reason for
00:23:29
people to question what they believe that they're hearing part of it is the reports that are out there depending on
00:23:36
who you look at depends on what report you get on what is if in fact anything at the tail end of that call right I
00:23:44
personally cannot hear I hear something I can't hear the words that are said I believe what I'm hearing is at least two
00:23:53
different voices but I wouldn't say but to get I wouldn't bet my I wouldn't bet the title
00:24:00
of my vehicle on that I'm hearing three different voices I think I hear three things going on but I don't know that
00:24:07
for certain that I hear three different voices so the way that this would work out is that py didn't hang up the phone
00:24:15
all the way and then these words are spoken again I find it interesting that we have so many different let's call
00:24:24
them scientists for a lack of better words right so many different scientists coming out and saying oh we did this to
00:24:31
the audio we did that to the audio and this is what we heard oh we didn't hear anything we can't clean it up we did
00:24:36
clean it up varying reports uh according to bustle.com at least nine different agencies took a
00:24:44
look at this regarding Steve Thomas I find him to be I believe him to be is what I should say a reputable detective
00:24:54
if he says this is what they found I do put put some weight to that where I won't go all in on his
00:25:04
statement is this has never been presented in the court of law and therefore I have to go with his word but
00:25:14
at the same time he's saying that all these other different agencies couldn't find anything or couldn't decipher what
00:25:21
was being said right and I like I said I think you could start saying that you you hear
00:25:29
these words and then you start hearing those words and if you take a different term then maybe you start hearing that
00:25:36
term and the audio is just not clear and there's just not the technology to clean
00:25:41
it up to the point where it's definitive that there is another voice I also again
00:25:48
or at least to the point that it's been played in that manner for the public right but I don't understand what the
00:25:54
gotcha moment would be that if they a moment I would believe that would be that Burke was
00:26:02
awake that is a very that's a very uh pivotal moment in this case if he was think it is but why would they lie about
00:26:12
that I'm not saying that they again what I have read from several FBI agents when they say this
00:26:23
misremembering or switching up the order of which you did something might not be so nefarious it just simply
00:26:31
might be you have blocked that out that people sometimes when they see their their
00:26:38
child dead for the next couple hours it's all a blur and that's very it's a very good
00:26:46
possibility in this case and so this idea where people go well Burke wasn't up well at 552 you check on him is it
00:26:58
possible that there's commotion he comes down says something you tell him to go to his room whatever and you misremember
00:27:06
and since you misremember then you double down on on this because we know that we know at some point they become a
00:27:13
suspect and then it seems like they double down on a lot of lot of things and I'm just saying what does it prove I
00:27:21
don't think it proves anything other than the possibility that they are lying and I would really call into question
00:27:28
what is actually going on in that household and what are they pretending to be doing or pretending is going on if
00:27:37
they are in fact lying about Burke being awake yeah but I to me it would matter more if it was something where it's like
00:27:45
we kind of hear a third voice saying hey did you find my sister I killed her you
00:27:50
know or something to that effect but a kid going oh what did you find this again the only thing like you said which
00:27:59
I agree it I find it very difficult that they I find it very difficult that they
00:28:04
would misremember this I find it more so that it points out that they're lying when you have some something that
00:28:11
indicates possible deception you then have to call everything else into question it it doesn't make them look so
00:28:18
credible going forward the other issue that I take with this is then it calls into question well
00:28:24
if in fact you are telling the truth and he slept through the whole thing why didn't you wake him up to ask him any
00:28:30
questions he possibly could have seen something or heard something or offered something of value for the investigation
00:28:37
or to the parents who at that point should be calling for help also should be looking for their daughter or
00:28:45
searching the home well again with the best technology I think it's too difficult to clean up to say for certain
00:28:52
what is said at the end of that tape [Music] this show is sponsored by better help do
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cellular when Freedom calls we're here to answer call us at 1888 [Music] Freedom all right welcome back
00:31:18
cheers this week we are drinking Citra Noel hoppy holiday ale by Columbus Brewing Company garage gr four and a qu
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bottle caps out of five thanks again to everyone who has contributed to this year's beer fund happy holidays out
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there to everyone in the garage Army after the 911 call the ramsy call Fleet and Priscilla white and then called John
00:31:45
and Barbara Fernie there is some dispute about who was called first but regardless due to other events in this
00:31:53
timeline we know that the calls were made before 550 9 a.m. as we go forward with the timeline
00:32:01
let's keep in mind that there are different reports having different details within the timeline there are a
00:32:08
lot of moving pieces and a lot of witnesses providing information to fill out that timeline so we will try to
00:32:15
deliver this portion in the most clear and concise manner that we can at 5:59 a.m. Boulder Police Officer Rick French
00:32:25
arrives on the scene he arrives at the home of John and pany Ramsey just before 6:00 a.m. in a BPD Boulder Police
00:32:33
Department marked car what is not in dispute is that the fact that officer French was the first law enforcement
00:32:42
officer to arrive at the Ramsey house most reports would have officer French arriving at
00:32:48
559 this is based around him arriving 7 minutes after the 911 call which 911 logged that call at 552
00:32:57
some reports have French arriving earlier and he could have but that would have to mean that the 911 call log is
00:33:05
not correct at approximately 6:00 a.m. officer French reads the ransom letter in a story based on reading the police
00:33:15
reports Newsweek reporters claim French read The Ransom note and later conducted
00:33:21
a quick search of the house in contrast other reports claim French did the house
00:33:28
search first and then read The Ransom note French himself stated in a Vanity Fair interview that after being greeted
00:33:36
by paty on arrival John Ramsay directed me through the house and pointed out a three-page handwritten note which was
00:33:44
laid on the wooden floor just west of the kitchen area sometime after 6 a.m. officer
00:33:52
French searched the basement another report States French immediately searched the house looking for a point
00:33:59
of entry only after he did that search he read The Ransom note detective Steve Thomas's account is far different in
00:34:07
terms of timing stating with detectives finally on the scene they arrived at 810
00:34:13
a.m. according to Thomas to handle Witnesses French checked the garage and lower levels of the house looking for
00:34:20
places through which the kidnapper might have carried off the child he found none
00:34:26
the house was messy but he saw no sign of a struggle that last account comes from the leading detective Steve Thomas
00:34:36
but let's keep in mind while he was one of the leading detectives on the case he
00:34:40
was not present at the Ramsey home on the day in question regardless of the exact timing of this search it is
00:34:48
important to note according to police reports that during the search the officer fails to search what Ramsay's
00:34:55
and later everyone else would would refer to as the wine seller room from the police reports in French's search of
00:35:03
the basement quote he came to a door secured with a wooden latch he paused for a moment in front of the door but
00:35:10
walked away end quote he does not enter this room which would later be called into question right in the police report
00:35:18
French filed he says he didn't open the wine seller room door because he was looking for exits the kidnapper might
00:35:26
have used this door he deemed to be secure he noticed the latch was on the wrong side
00:35:33
of the door this meaning for someone leading out of the house right so he kept moving this is the windowless room
00:35:43
that is referred to as the cellar room and French does not know that there's no windows in that room that's not why he
00:35:51
doesn't open that door what he determines is that it would be physically impossible for someone to to
00:35:56
close the door behind them and secure the latch once in the room right because the latch would be on the opposite side
00:36:04
of the door while this is all going on Sergeant reinbach arrives and conducts a search I want to go through this a
00:36:13
little bit here Captain because as said there's a lot of moving pieces and the timing of all of this stuff seems to
00:36:20
vary depending on who you talk to what I think is important to know going forward
00:36:27
is most of what I would consider to be the key events I believe them all to have
00:36:33
actually happened what you would call into question is the timing of those events right not if they occurred or not
00:36:40
it seems like all of the a all of the possible Witnesses would claim that all of these things do in fact happen it's
00:36:48
just in what order and when right so I put in here Sergeant Reichenbach arrives and conducts a search of the home home
00:36:57
the reason why I put it in here is because if you go from John Douglas's information he states that both Sergeant
00:37:06
Reichenbach and officer French searched the home before this next event happened this next event is marked at
00:37:16
6:03 a.m. or minutes after 6 this is when friends Fleet and Priscilla white arrive at the Ramsey
00:37:25
house within 15 minutes of their arrival according to Mr White's later testimony
00:37:32
he alone searched the basement Fleet white said when he went downstairs to look for John Benet ramsy
00:37:39
the lights were already on in the basement Fleet white then searches the train room or what he would call the
00:37:47
playroom he testified that a window in the basement playroom or train room was broken under the broken window Mr White
00:37:55
states there was a suitcase case along with a broken Shard of glass he does not however remember whether the window was
00:38:03
open or closed there is a report that States Fleet white moved this suitcase and placed it under the window some
00:38:11
reports state that this window was open some say it was closed Fleet white also opened the door to the wine seller room
00:38:20
but he could not see anything inside because it was dark remember there's no windows in this room right and he could
00:38:25
not find the lights switch anybody that's familiar with this home and the layout of the home one thing that's
00:38:31
always been called into question is that the light switch for this wine seller room is in a strange spot it's not in
00:38:40
that go-to spot that one would immediately turn to naturally to flip on the light right he doesn't see anything
00:38:47
and he said he closed the door and secured the latch now according to Steve Thomas he says at 6:30 a.m. Fleet white
00:38:56
searches the the basement same incident with a slightly different time and description of observations Thomas's
00:39:02
notes state that within approximately 10 to 15 minutes of his arrival Fleet white
00:39:07
searched the basement of the Ramsay's residence he noticed that the lights were on saw the broken window in the
00:39:13
train room and looked for broken glass and found a small piece of glass the latch on the window was in the unlocked
00:39:21
position and his impression was that the window was closed he looked in the wine
00:39:25
cellar but could not see anything and went back upstairs at 6:10 a.m. Boulder Police Department Officer Carl V
00:39:34
responds to the scene Captain we do need to point out here that contrary to normal protocol the police did not seal
00:39:42
off the home of the ramies yeah they missed a lot of things with protocol yeah in other words any person in the
00:39:50
Ramsey house could and did move freely throughout the home at this time this includes officers and the ramsy and the
00:39:59
whites as we know Fleet white at some point even though in dispute of the exact timing did search the lower level
00:40:07
of the home well anytime that there's a a victim that is that young of age and then you have a ransom note or a
00:40:16
kidnapping situation what I've heard is that you're supposed to go okay let's prove this
00:40:24
Theory first that the that the child is not in the house that something didn't happen this in this house and we're not
00:40:32
trying to cover it up with with this tactic and obviously we they didn't do that they just assumed that this is a
00:40:41
kidnapping a typical kidnapping and and and we're going to trust the parents on this one and and move forward so there's
00:40:48
a few things in that very same regard that I find to be interesting based off of witness statements and this includes
00:40:57
law enforcement and civilians we have the two officers that Douglas says search the home before Fleet
00:41:04
white both of them state that they're looking for exit points from the house so that means you're going to be
00:41:10
searching probably the basement and the ground level this might lead them to have no reason if that's in fact what
00:41:19
they are searching for this might lead them to not have cause to search the second floor and of
00:41:26
course the third floor right the other thing we have Fleet white he states that he is looking for John Benet Ramsay he's
00:41:33
he states that his purpose of searching the home was to look for the little girl
00:41:37
this based off of a real life situation that that he experienced where I believe
00:41:43
it was his daughter was missing and she was just hiding somewhere right you know
00:41:48
it was just one of those parental scare moments that people have the difference here
00:41:54
is he would there's a ransom note but I don't believe if if you believe Fleet White's account he very likely would
00:42:02
have no knowledge of this Ransom note before he went off on his search right the other thing though Captain where you
00:42:10
talked about protocol and and the missteps by the Boulder Police Department The Ransom note says do not
00:42:18
contact the police and one standard bit of protocol I would guess here I'm I'm making an assumption I do not know this
00:42:26
to be true uhhuh it seems very strange to me that when you are reporting a kidnapping with a ransom
00:42:35
note that Boulder responds by sending a marked police car to the scene that's the first car that shows up it seems to
00:42:44
me like it would be more beneficial to that exact situation if you would send at least a detective in an unmarked car
00:42:53
right so a lot of things going on here I I I say all that but I also question current Day present day even
00:43:04
1996 how much experience would a police department have with a kidnapping and a ransom note that's kind of an old school
00:43:15
crime I I wonder how often the these Protocols are taught I know that they have kidnappings and they deal with
00:43:23
abductions and missing persons cases but one in fact where there's a ransom note
00:43:28
saying hey this person's going to die unless you give us this money I just find it so strange how many people the
00:43:35
parents called to say hey look John B is missing come over come to the house yeah
00:43:41
just after 10:00 a.m. is when family friend John Fernie arrives his his wife Barbara Fernie came later and that's
00:43:50
reported as just before 6:20 a.m. so we have Fleet White prisc white John Fernie
00:43:57
Barbara Fernie all at the Ramsey house as of 6:20 a.m. this is about a half hour after the 911 call is placed right
00:44:08
we also need to keep in mind that not only do we have all these extra civilians in the house but we also have
00:44:15
several officers that have arrived they're trying to assess what's going on they're talking to John they're talking
00:44:23
to paty and what John says is that after he was aware that something was wrong that he did check the first floor doors
00:44:32
he found them all to be locked he says that the ramsy in fact had a security system but it was not engaged and that
00:44:40
their dog stayed at a friend's house that night the dog was not in the house the night in question John said he saw
00:44:47
no signs of forced entry and the ramsy say they heard nothing during that night yeah but this is where it gets kind of
00:44:56
messed up though cuz you have a situation where a police officer sees marks on like the kitchen
00:45:04
door or like the the outside door that would go into the kitchen and they look like fresh like like this is maybe
00:45:14
attempt to break into your house and John Ramsey kind of dismisses these like well I don't know if those
00:45:23
are new or old because he has this habit of one forgetting his keys and just breaking stuff to get into his own house
00:45:32
mhm and not fixing it so that makes this situation even more difficult yeah and I believe they find
00:45:41
those marks the the following day now just before 6:45 a.m. John Ramsey calls the pilot remember they're supposed to
00:45:49
be getting on an airplane John Ramsey leaves a message for his Pilot this is Michael archeleta
00:45:56
who then Returns the call a few minutes later and pany answers the phone I don't
00:46:01
have record of what was stated I'm guessing based off of things that Michael archeleta would later say that
00:46:08
it was simply a call to say hey something's wrong something's going on here we're not making that that plane
00:46:15
right at 6:45 a.m. officer Sue Barlow arrives at the Ramsay's house about the same time victim Advocates arrive at the
00:46:26
Ramsay's house they are called in as they are Advocates trained in helping families through traumatic
00:46:34
situations when they arrive apparently they arrived with bagels and coffee Priscilla white about the same
00:46:41
time calls her niece who is back at the Whit's house we will know what that call
00:46:47
is about in a bit at 6:50 a.m. officer Weiss and officer barklow were photographing and fingerprinting areas
00:46:58
of the house officer vich had collected The Ransom note at 7 a.m. Burke Ramsey is awakened
00:47:06
and dressed there are two different accounts of how this went down but they're both
00:47:13
very similar One account states that it was John Ramsey Fleet white and Mr Fernie right who woke up the young boy
00:47:23
and got him dressed and got him ready to go the other story states that it was just Fleet white and John
00:47:31
ramsy at 7:13 a.m. Reverend R htoo from St John's Episcopal Church arrives at the Ramsay's home this is their Reverend
00:47:43
this is the church that they attend after the Reverend arrives 9-year-old Burke Ramsay is taken by Fleet white and
00:47:51
John Fernie to pick up the Fernie children presumably at the Fernie home and then taken to the whites
00:47:59
home there was some interaction action during this whole movement of Burke let's call it right where police want to
00:48:08
ask Burke if he saw anything remember right now we are investigating a kidnapping of a little girl that
00:48:18
occurred inside of a home where there was three other people that night three potential Witnesses whether they saw
00:48:25
something heard something right what the officer is told from all the and I'm using air quotes here Captain General
00:48:33
accounts that I have seen states that John Ramsay instructs the officer that Burke was sleeping the
00:48:42
entire night and he saw and heard nothing basically he has nothing to offer to this
00:48:49
investigation at an unknown time John Ramsey apparently searches the basement Mr Ramsey also searched this basement
00:48:58
area alone According to some stories he testified that he found the broken window partially opened under the broken
00:49:07
window Mr Ramsey also saw the same suitcase seen earlier by Mr White Mr Ramsey testified that the suitcase
00:49:15
belonged to his family but was normally stored in a different place Mr Ramsey then returned upstairs in his 1998
00:49:23
testimony John Ramsey provided several different times for when he searched the basement on his own he first States
00:49:31
quote it would have been that time period 7 to9 and later reiterates it was probably sometime between 7 and 9 when
00:49:41
asked whether it was before after the whites and the feres arrived John stated quote I think it was after because they
00:49:49
came fairly early he then reiterated quote the best I can do is it was I believe after the police came because
00:49:57
they had gone through the house before I figured out what I'm going to do it was
00:50:02
before 10:00 they had already done some preparation before that so it would have
00:50:07
been before probably before 9: so then somewhere between 7 and 9 but when reminded that the ransom letter said a
00:50:18
call would come between 8 and 10 a.m. right John is basing these answers off of that he was misremembering that the call
00:50:28
was going to come between 10: and 12 10:00 a.m. in noon right as he had supposed John made clear that he had
00:50:38
visited the basement prior to that time since he States quote when we were ready
00:50:44
for the phone call I was prepped about what I was going to say and I was getting the family ready and so between
00:50:50
that period of time we were just waiting for the phone call and I was near the phone and I was either in the study or
00:50:58
on the first floor I was just waiting for it referring to the call and this is one of the biggest
00:51:05
problems with the whole damn case is the the misremembering and the eyewitness accounts from everybody it's almost like
00:51:13
you have to kind of throw most of them away because they don't line up with other people's accounts mhm and and but
00:51:21
also this is because you first have to go into to the scene and determine whether or not it's a kidnapping if they
00:51:29
would have done their due diligence there they would have found John benay Ramsay and the wine seller once they
00:51:34
find her in the wine seller now you have to lock off this scene now it's a crime
00:51:40
and now what we need to do is try to because we know it's like 12 to one that somebody that young if not more uh
00:51:49
percentage is higher that somebody in her family killed her so now you have to separate the three that were in the
00:51:58
house and start questioning them right away and this is not done by law enforcement yeah there look and I hate
00:52:08
to come down hard on Boulder Police Department because this is a strange situation nobody can doubt that after we
00:52:16
know what we currently know it's going to get even stranger but where I kind of fault them is I feel
00:52:25
like me you and some of our garage friends could have showed up to this home and done somewhat of a better job
00:52:32
just being uneducated individuals that are just guessing as we go yeah I think the difficult thing here is that you
00:52:41
have quote unquote grieving parents and so therefore again it becomes one of those things where it's it easier said
00:52:50
than done where you have to assume that that nobody's telling you the truth from
00:52:57
the get-go and and and let the evidence tell you what to believe but I think that's hard to do when you have this
00:53:06
mother uh crying and and and kind of causing a scene well there you're giving us too much credit I'm not even taking
00:53:13
it to that level of sophistication I just mean if you show up to what is deemed or believe to be at the time a
00:53:21
kidnapping that I feel like there are already missteps just for the just for that kidnapping not even based off of
00:53:27
anything else that we will figure out uh any of the events to come so I do want to point out by this time and it is
00:53:37
reported again I apologize to everybody but I can't make this stuff up this is what's out there this is the information
00:53:43
that's out there this is what we have to deal with there are varying times on this statement as well but I believe
00:53:49
that by this time I believe the earlier statement that by this time in our time frame roughly we are around the
00:53:58
7ish to 7:30 Mark mhm by this time they have done one well two things that were very smart
00:54:09
and that you would do in a ransom type situation by this point they have set up a trap and trace on the Ramsay's home
00:54:20
phone and they've also stopped all police radio communic regarding the kidnapping this is important for several
00:54:30
reasons we have individuals that that claim or at least the note will claim that they want a ransom for the safe
00:54:41
return of this little girl they very likely could be monitoring police scanners listening into what calls are
00:54:49
going on to see if the ramsy in fact did contact the police and what the police are doing what is their movements what
00:54:58
is their strategy at this time so they canel all police radio communications and now they are going to communicate
00:55:07
via phone which that's going to complicate matters because they're not used to doing that and not everybody has
00:55:13
a phone on their person but that's what they have to deal with now going through all of those
00:55:23
things that John Ramsey said about the timing of when he searched the home on his own searched the basement on his own
00:55:32
we go through that it's a bit tedious but you have to go through it because there's going to be a lot of questions
00:55:39
about what he could have been doing during that time or when he in fact searched the home by himself we included
00:55:47
all of his words so that you know that we're not just making this up this comes from actual words this is from evidence
00:55:54
this is from his statements that he put out himself now if he's giving us a 2hour Time window when he believes that
00:56:01
the ransom call was going to come in between 10 and 12 and he's saying well happened before that it must have been
00:56:08
between 7 and 9 you almost wonder if you have to back that up a whole hour because he's off on when the Call's
00:56:16
supposed to come in the Call's supposed to come in between 8 and 10 and he's saying that he's being he
00:56:21
remembers being prepped at some point and this would be in his recollection around the time that the call was
00:56:29
supposed to come in you have to prep the guy before the Call Comes in right all right so let's simplify some of this
00:56:36
roughly about 7:00 they're going to wake up Burke they're going to get him dressed they're going to take him to the
00:56:43
whites at the same time roughly at the same time about 7:00 to 7:13 we have the Reverend showing up so he's going to get
00:56:52
to the house and then at some point between 7 and 8 probably closer to 7 because John Ramsey has to be prepped
00:57:01
for the call which should be coming in from 8 to 10: he searches the home he searches the
00:57:08
home in his own words it's just the timing he gives is weird and wrong because of two things one of two things
00:57:16
either he's not remembering the events clearly or he's lying or he's lying right but either way this would put his
00:57:23
search before for the police officer search and so now roughly about 7:30 and we're looking at um 30 minutes
00:57:33
before a call possibly could come in the ransom amount is assembled they collect
00:57:39
the $118,000 at 7:33 a.m. a can9 unit is put on standby this is interesting Captain
00:57:50
because they never use this K9 unit they just put one on standby by I don't know
00:57:56
if they were waiting for the ransom call to come in before they utiliz this K9 unit or what was going to take place but
00:58:03
you feel like if you know the child was sleeping in her bed at some point that you bring in that canine unit if you're
00:58:10
trying to figure out how that kidnapper got out of the home yeah bring the dog in let him sniff around the bed and see
00:58:17
if the if this canine unit is going to lead you through the home right but that would make some sense and this case has
00:58:25
none the Boulder Police Department does not seem to be in the business of doing things that make sense no at 8: a.m.
00:58:33
neighbor Scott Gibbons got up and observed a basement door to the Ramsay home was standing wide open there's been
00:58:42
some debate about this Open Door not that it he saw it and not that it was open it's just by this point you've had
00:58:49
so many people moving around through the home and checking doors and going about
00:58:54
Police business or what have you well and this anybody could have left this door open yeah this
00:58:59
is possibly that door that I was telling you in one of the reports I saw where the cops found a back door open so this
00:59:08
could be the that back door that you're talking about correct so this is where I
00:59:14
think we can back up John Ramsay's statement of what time he was searching the home by himself or the basement by
00:59:22
himself because he seems to recall even though he can't figure out the time that
00:59:27
it was before he would have been prepped for the ransom call the next item on our
00:59:32
timeline plays to that so at 8:10 a.m. we have detective Patterson and detective Linda AR arrive at the Ramsey
00:59:41
home AR is this uh crazy eyes yes okay Officer Rick French gave them an updated briefing at this time we have Steve
00:59:51
Thomas' notes that states that the two detectives arrived um at this time as well so this seems to be generally
00:59:57
confirmed or at least believed by multiple people on the scene detective aren't monitored incoming calls to the
01:00:06
Ramsay's residents that was her first Duty afterward detective aren't instructed John Ramsay regarding the
01:00:14
call the instructions were how he should handle the call when it comes in first to keep talking or keep the caller
01:00:23
talking long enough enough to trace the call and maybe even more important demand to talk to John Benet yeah but
01:00:32
why this is all going on we have the Ramsay's friends that are over to try to help them out they start cleaning the
01:00:40
kitchen yeah some of the notes state that this was the victim's Advocates that were cleaning the kitchen either
01:00:46
way it's it's a big no no especially if it would be The Advocates that were brought in by the Boulder Police
01:00:51
Department at 8:36 a.m. John Andrew and Melinda Ramsay boarded a Delta flight to
01:00:58
Minneapolis at 9:27 a.m. detective bfield contacted Gary maramman for a list of the employees at access Graphics
01:01:09
yeah basically by doing this they're rounding up people that they think are possible suspects at 10:00 a.m. no one
01:01:19
including the Ramsay mentions to detective Linda art that the suspected kidnappers failed to call during the
01:01:28
designated time period right Steve Thomas very astutely points out a very interesting thing here that
01:01:38
that that's very kind of difficult to put your finger on and that is the letter which we are
01:01:46
going to dive into the letter states that we will contact you tomorrow between 8:00 a.m.
01:01:53
and 10:00 a.m. the problem with that is we do know not know what time John Benet
01:01:58
was kidnapped meaning if the letter was constructed and she was kidnapped before
01:02:07
midnight then 8:00 a.m. to 10:00 a.m. tomorrow would be just that very day on the
01:02:13
26th right if it was after midnight the kidnapper may have meant 8:00 a.m. and 10: a.m. on the 27th right I mean
01:02:24
this is this is this can't make this stuff up about this case regardless what I find interesting here though Captain
01:02:32
is if I'm one of the parents of this missing girl and I've been prepped on a ransom call and how to handle that
01:02:40
call when that time expires I'm going to be panicking why didn't they call why didn't they call yeah do they know law
01:02:49
here yeah I'm not going to put any thought into what day they were supposed to call or what day they meant I'm going
01:02:55
to go off of I'm panicked I haven't heard I'm supposed to get some instruction on how to get my daughter
01:03:01
back right or I'd use my brain and say okay they didn't call I'm a little worried but does that mean that they're
01:03:07
going to call tomorrow is you know is the note stating tomorrow you see what I mean like somebody should mention
01:03:15
something according to Steve Thomas's notes um at 10:30 at approximately 10:30 is exactly
01:03:23
what he states to detectives Linda art and Fred Patterson they sealed off John benet's bedroom about time yeah it's
01:03:31
about time that done that way to go pat yourself on the back at 10:30 a.m. after
01:03:38
doing this all additional police officers and the victim Advocates this is everyone law enforcement sent to the
01:03:45
home other than Linda art they leave the Ramsay residence so that means we now have
01:03:53
Linda art at the home one detective one member of law enforcement one single person yeah
01:04:01
with paty Ramsay John Ramsay the whites the feres and the Reverend well the Ramsay really liked her though even
01:04:10
though she has crazy eyes the ramsy it seemed like they felt comfortable with her well I just wanted to point out that
01:04:17
we have one law enforcement member here and seven individuals seven civilians in
01:04:24
a big giant house there are things working at the police station during this time right however how could the
01:04:33
officers and the other detectives there's a sergeant amongst them all decide to leave and only leave one
01:04:39
officer there with seven people this to me seems like pure Insanity on behalf of
01:04:44
the Boulder Police Department and totally unfair to one of their own unfair to detective Linda aren't yeah
01:04:51
but she's going to tell two different stories so I don't want I don't think we need to
01:04:56
get into too much detail but it seems like initially she's like yeah they were cooperative and I was trying to help
01:05:04
them out and they were talking to me and then it seems like years later she changes her story and that that that's
01:05:10
where she has that famous interview where she's saying and I was holding my gun and counting my bullets you know
01:05:17
it's like one why are you counting your bullets and why are you afraid none of these people have guns
01:05:24
yeah I just think it's that whole move is totally unfair to detective 't by her fellow officers to leave her there by
01:05:33
herself well to be fair nobody wanted to be seen with her crazy eyes it's too much for one officer to handle we got
01:05:40
seven people moving around a crime scene but they're not right but and then on top of that it
01:05:50
still has not been designated a crime scene by law enforcement I mean they yes they blocked off haven't
01:05:59
we agreed that that's one of the problems yes big problem yeah that's a big problem here's a continued another
01:06:05
misstep by the Boulder Police Department now we're going to leave just one of our
01:06:09
officers here to yeah okay so the thought at the time is yes there was a kidnapping maybe she
01:06:16
doesn't need to be monitoring everybody inside the home but maybe that should have been in consideration one and two
01:06:25
we've cut off radio communications yep what if the ransom call comes in you've left 30 minutes
01:06:32
after the call was supposed to come in it just makes it makes absolutely zero absolute zero sense we have one officer
01:06:40
there she'll handle it yeah that makes no sense between 10:40 a.m. and around noon John Ramsey is unaccounted for what
01:06:51
this means is that Linda aren't the only officer on the scene does not know where
01:06:57
this man is during this time frame doesn't he go to check his mail or something that his that was the rumor
01:07:04
that was the story that came out early in this whole big mess who gives a [ __ ]
01:07:10
who gives a [ __ ] about your mail well that's what people point to people say this man did not care that his daughter
01:07:16
was missing at the time did not care that a ransom call could come in because he left the home to check the mail Linda
01:07:24
art kind of makes an assumption here remember she cannot account for him she accounts for him around noon she says
01:07:33
when she sees John sitting by himself and he's reading some type of Correspondence some maybe a letter or
01:07:40
something she makes the assumption that he left to go get the mail we know years
01:07:45
later that that is in fact we can't say in fact but I would guess very likely untrue that he left the home to get the
01:07:53
mail the the mail slot was in the in the front door the mail comes into the home
01:07:59
you don't have to leave the home so he could have very well picked up the mail or just picked something up from his
01:08:04
desk tried to occupy his mind we don't know what we do know is he is unaccounted for roughly for an hour she
01:08:13
doesn't know where he is Linda does not know where he is again that look that's not the fault of the family that's the
01:08:19
fault of law enforcement for leaving one officer behind not being able to keep an
01:08:23
eye on everybody but it's interesting because the other adults in the home are accounted for during this time now we
01:08:31
have Linda art who is left with a cell phone this is her method that she's been told she needs to use to communicate
01:08:38
with her fellow officers mhm during this time she feels like she's losing control
01:08:44
of all the people there losing control of the scene if you want to call it that and she sends two her eyebrows and eyes
01:08:52
she sends two p pages to officers requesting backup that she would like for them to call you know you send a
01:09:00
page they respond she was going to tell them I need some additional officers here I'm
01:09:07
outnumbered and I wonder what made her look I'm not saying that she's telling one story and then saying another that's
01:09:15
what I said before but what but that's what it kind of seems like but maybe there was something that happened
01:09:23
happened during being there by yourself that she went wait a second something's not right here
01:09:29
and that's when she started calling for backup yeah twice she called well she sent a page both times they went they
01:09:36
didn't respond to them she never had the opportunity to ask for backup she's asking for backup Captain because she
01:09:43
feels she's lost control of the scene she's lost control of the all these people that are there she's supposed to
01:09:49
babysit them she knows for a fact that one of them John R is unaccounted for for a certain period of time yeah around
01:09:59
1:00 Heather Cox she is at the White's home she answers the phone and she is told by Priscilla white to bring Burke
01:10:07
Ramsey back to the Ramsey home uhhuh now at around 12:30 again we have John Ramy according to Linda art
01:10:19
sitting by himself she decides and again there I apologize there's several different versions of this
01:10:27
story but she says that around just before 1:00 she wanted to give Jon something to do so she asked Jon to
01:10:36
search the house some stories say that she approached Fleet white and asked him to
01:10:44
get Jon to go with him to search the house I actually think these varied stories in this particular situation
01:10:52
could be extremely important based off of what people's suspicions will be because of their movements and what
01:11:00
people will come to the defense of John Ramsay in those suspicions yeah but really this case should be called John
01:11:08
Benet Ramsey close enough good enough for jazz right I mean because every story has a combating
01:11:18
story yeah because the people telling you the story other than us they all seem to have an axe to grind right
01:11:26
they've concluded what happened they figured out what has happened and they're going to sell it and spin it to
01:11:32
you in that manner we're going to try to give you the story from all the different angles and let you decide what
01:11:39
took place yeah now I'm going to really try to sum this but I'm not going to let
01:11:45
you decide on her crazy eyes definitively she has crazy eyes to sum it up here captain in the the shortest form either
01:11:55
aren't asked Fleet white to search the home with John or she asked John and then John took Fleet white with
01:12:06
him this is interesting because of what we will learn and we'll get into that eventually regardless of how this goes
01:12:14
down of who asked who Steve Thomas says that they were instructed to search the house from top to bottom however John
01:12:23
opted to head directly to the basement instead mhm according to Steve Thomas's notes John Ramsay LED Fleet white to the
01:12:32
basement where they first went to the train room and examined the broken window and John said he broke it a few
01:12:39
months ago they searched for glass on the floor the men next searched a shower stall located in the basement Mr Ramsey
01:12:48
then noticed a fireplace grate propped in front of a closet and Mr White white moved the great so the closet could be
01:12:56
searched upon finding nothing unusual in the closet the men proceeded to the wine
01:13:02
seller room 1:04 p.m. this is the time given in Steve Thomas's notes Mr Ramsey entered the room first turned on the
01:13:11
light and upon discovering John benet's dead body he shouted something in regards to that Discovery there is
01:13:19
another version out there that states Ramsay shouted actually before turning on the light this is called into
01:13:25
question because remember we have Fleet white who says he went into that very same room earlier couldn't find the
01:13:32
light and did not see anything joban had black duct tape covering her mouth a cord around her
01:13:39
neck that was attached to a wooden garat and her hands were bound over her head in front of her she was covered by a
01:13:47
light colored blanket the blanket covered her torso but not her head arms or legs John Ramsay ripped the duct tape
01:13:55
from John benet's mouth and attempted to free her hands of the bindings Fleet white came running up the stairs yelling
01:14:03
call 911 call 911 he then runs to the back office located on the first floor grabbing a telephone but remember we
01:14:12
have detective Linda art is still in the home at this point so using the cell phone she calls 911 and John Ramsay
01:14:22
which is carrying John Benet up the stairs he then sets her down and for some reason detective AR is going to
01:14:30
pick her back up and carry her into a different room the living room by the Christmas tree this is where John Ramsay
01:14:37
kneels beside the body and repeatedly says something like my little angel over and over again friends had to carry py
01:14:47
Ramsey because she's too stunned to walk over to the body yeah and the next Part
01:14:53
I didn't believe I actually had to hear it from paty Ramsay's mouth herself but she actually ask God to raise her
01:15:04
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