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[Music] % [Music] welcome to True crab garage wherever you are whatever you are doing thanks for
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you it's good to be seen and it's good to to see you thanks for listening thanks for telling a
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[Music] friend today we are still sipping on Zombie Dust by the good girls and guys
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over at three Floyd's Brewing Company now one thing that I know the captain loves and I have much appreciation for
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myself is beer can and beer bottle artwork one day Captain we will decorate the garage and beer art well the genius
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is over Three Floyds teamed up with comic book artist Tim Steely for the Fantastic artwork on Zombie Dust on the
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Crim garage.com and that's enough of the business all right everybody gather around grab a chair grab a beer let's
00:03:50
talk some true crime [Music] [Music] [Music] a where we left off yesterday Captain we
00:04:32
are going through the timeline of David Edward mous one that I would categorize as a unique serial killer as said in
00:04:44
2003 they discovered the bodies of three teenage boys in his basement and then the community discovers that this man
00:04:54
that they are arresting and charging with a triple homicide he's already already been convicted twice of murder
00:05:02
so why was he living in their neighborhood this leads us up to 1967 when mouse was just 13 years old
00:05:13
he's now been institutionalized placed there by his mother for about 4 years at this point he was sent from the
00:05:23
psychiatric hospital to the Alex Children's Home which had a reputation for sexual abuse this is according to
00:05:32
the monster Indiana Times this part captain gets a little fuzzy because mous was then sent back to the mental
00:05:42
hospital in 1970 the reasons for this not clear but I'm sure that if there were if he was living in a situation
00:05:51
that had a reputation for sexual abuse even though he did not like living at the psychiatric hospital he he probably
00:06:00
was glad to be sent back to this hospital after leaving the hospital David mous worked construction then he
00:06:09
enrolled in the Army this was when he was 17 years old he went through basic training and was sent to Frankfurt
00:06:17
Germany in 1972 to serve as an army cook in Germany for some reason David mouse was spending time in the company of a
00:06:27
13-year-old American boy named Jimmy mlti whose parents were stationed in Germany the two met at a bowling alley
00:06:37
according to court documents Jimmy called mous a queer and told others that he saw mous masturbated well that's the
00:06:44
fastest way to become friends as a result others started making fun of David mous David mous engineered an
00:06:52
outing with this kid with Jimmy riding a pair of stolen mopeds in a German forest
00:07:01
so so he became friends with the guy that was running around telling everybody he was caught jerking off he
00:07:08
was already friends with him and says that you know he caught mous masturbating tells everybody this now
00:07:16
everybody's making fun of David Mouse okay I'm just trying to get this right we have this kid that's abandoned by his
00:07:22
family put into a psychiatric home then goes to this other facility for basically
00:07:30
orphans he's molested there goes back to the psych may have been he it's a place
00:07:35
that's rep has a reputation for sexual abuse so from there he is sent back to the psychiatric ward he's there for a
00:07:43
while gets out yeah because he's he's 17 he's almost an adult by this point so then he goes to the Army and now he
00:07:52
befriends this younger kid they send yeah he goes to basic training after basic training then they give you a job
00:07:59
in the Army and he's sent to Germany to work as an army cook this in 1972 And while he's there for some reason who
00:08:08
does he become friends with he becomes friend with friends with a child not with other adults he starts hanging out
00:08:14
with this 13-year-old American Boy Who the 13-year-old American boy is there because his parents are in the Army as
00:08:22
well and stationed there well one he has the connection because they're both American but two you'd have to say or
00:08:28
have to think think that his social skills his social maturity was that probably of a a younger kid than a
00:08:38
17-year-old well and this is something that we've seen with adults as well that you sometimes when people are
00:08:45
institutionalized that they have a different maturity because they did not mature that much during the time that
00:08:52
they were institutionalized that's why we have criminal profilers that say the most
00:08:57
difficult thing to determine in your profile is the age of the offender if you don't have any statements from
00:09:05
eyewitnesses because you don't know the maturity level of someone that's been potentially locked up for 15 20 years
00:09:14
they don't mature the same way that you and I would out here living amongst other people in society right so Captain
00:09:21
it looks to me like whatever went down between mous and this 13-year-old boy right that David mous wanted to either
00:09:29
shut the kid up or he wanted revenge against the kid because now everybody's picking on him and making fun of him
00:09:37
yeah call him flicky FY so it seems like he engineered this plot to get the kid to come out and hang out with him the
00:09:45
two were out riding on a pair of stolen mopeds out in the forest and while out in the forest Mouse hit Jimmy over the
00:09:53
head he then tied the boy to a tree and beat him to death with a board that had Nails sticking out of it Jesus David
00:10:02
Mouse hid the body in some of the brush the boy's body was not found until about
00:10:08
a month later I mean look you you catch somebody masturbating just never never tell anybody never you could be beaten
00:10:17
to death with a board with nails this the weird thing here Captain is that mouse was only convicted of manslaughter
00:10:26
and he was he was convicted of manslaughter and Larsen this for stealing the mopeds but was not charged
00:10:33
with murder because there were no witnesses that could place Jimmy and David Mouse together on the
00:10:43
same day that Jimmy died okay so just because they can't place them together then how the heck is he responsible in
00:10:51
any way shape or form are they saying well because he sto stole the moped and the 13-year-old was on the moped that
00:10:58
that's how died well this is a difficult situation what I think happened here is
00:11:04
that they cannot put the Killer and victim together they have nobody that can testify at court and say these two
00:11:12
were together on that day or right Mouse tricked this kid out into the forest with him and then later we found his
00:11:19
body a month later what I think happened here is that we have a plea bargain I think that they had enough suspicion
00:11:27
surrounding David especially if there's there's there's this rumor going around that the kid
00:11:33
caught him masturbating and told everybody about it yeah caught him flicky flicky this dude is going to be
00:11:40
your number one suspect when the kid goes missing and when you find his body a month later you're going to keep
00:11:46
confronting him and confronting him and say hey we know this and we know that about you David Mouse what we know from
00:11:53
the the 2003 murders he eventually confessed to all three of us so that that is who he is that's his
00:12:02
makeup so very likely what happened here is he says okay you're you're suspicious
00:12:08
of me yeah I was with him what what his story is is that we were out riding together on these mopeds in the forest
00:12:17
and little Jimmy smacked into a tree like Sunny Bono and died and I just I just hit his body and then left I got
00:12:26
scared and left so they they they can kind of piece together what they believe happened but they don't have any way of
00:12:33
proving that in court and in fact this was a a court marshaled situation and he was sentenced to some sources to say
00:12:44
five years and some sources say four years at Fort lenworth for this situation and again because he's
00:12:50
enrolled into the the military I wonder if that had something to do with him being charged with a lesser crime I I
00:12:59
again I'm guessing it's what he was agreeing to be to be convicted of right he probably stuck to his story that the
00:13:05
kid died on it in some kind of accident on these stolen mopeds out in the forest
00:13:11
what's weird here and I know I keep saying that but David Mouse to me seems to be a very unique serial killer and
00:13:17
we'll get into why I believe that here in a bit but he gets this very light sentence right captain of depending on
00:13:25
which source four or five years he is getting paroled after serving just 3 years during the parole portion he's
00:13:38
telling authorities do not parole me do not let me out I don't want to be let out of prison keep me here this was
00:13:46
either ignored or denied and he was released in 1977 yeah but you see this occasionally
00:13:53
or at least through like the journals or the thoughts or interviews of many serial killers where they go I killed
00:14:01
this guy then I told myself never again and so I think this is a situation where
00:14:06
he's going just keep me locked up because I'm going to do this again right I think he has a realization of who he
00:14:14
is of what he's capable of and maybe he's even afraid of that himself and does not like who he is does not want to
00:14:21
be evil but he believes himself to be it almost it's like I can't control myself
00:14:28
keep me here please I don't want to hurt anybody else well after he's released he's going to he's going to get back to
00:14:35
America he's going to be living in Chicago and he's going to be committing more crimes there and these are violent
00:14:42
crimes and these are situations where it's just it's just bizarre because this next event went so far as
00:14:52
that he was actually tried and went to trial for this in 1980 for armed violence attempted murder an aggravated
00:15:00
battery this was from a stabbing that took place in 1979 the victim's named Mark nhart who
00:15:08
was a co-worker with David Mouse at the FJ Lial machine company in Chicago uhhuh
00:15:15
Mouse had been working with this company for 18 months he was making about a th000 bucks a month as a machinist he
00:15:23
and Mark were hanging out one night when Mouse suddenly stabbed Who David Mouse refers to as his friend
00:15:32
he stabs his friend in the abdomen with an 8 in knife well he just beat his one friend to death with a board with nails
00:15:39
sticking out a few years earlier so he he likes to be friends with these people and then it's almost like this guy hates
00:15:47
himself so much that if you're friends with him he wants you dead yeah and thankfully Mark lived through the
00:15:54
situation David Mouse lied on the witness stand apparently saying that this whole incident was an
00:16:01
accident it sounds to me like there just was not enough evidence to convict mous
00:16:07
of anything so he was found to be not guilty in the situation but what we're pointing out here Captain is that David
00:16:15
Mouse one got off light for a murder in Germany and then got away with it entirely for an attempted murder here in
00:16:22
Chicago just a couple years later I wonder if this friend caught him jerking off well I don't know but a couple of
00:16:29
months later mouse stabbed someone else this time the guy died here's what happened this is per the Chicago Tribune
00:16:39
in August of 1981 David Mouse started to believe that the cause of his violent Behavior was from a
00:16:48
homosexual incident or homosexual activity that he had engaged with with a a boy just a few years earlier so he's
00:16:57
all mad and worked up about this situation he decides he's going to go out and look for this teenager and when
00:17:04
he finds him he's going to kill him maybe he was afraid that the the boy would tell people about it at the time
00:17:11
mouse was living in Woodale a western suburb of Chicago so he drove to his former
00:17:19
neighborhood of green view where he knew that the teenager was living at the time
00:17:25
you know he's asking around about this kid and he learned that the kid was in jail
00:17:31
so his Target the person he's all enraged at that he wants to find and kill he's not going to be able to
00:17:37
because this kid's locked up in jail so he decides on the spot you know what I'll just go after someone else
00:17:46
and really anyone else he spots Donald Jones age 15 this is almost like a surate victim for
00:17:59
mous yeah he somehow gets this 15-year-old into his vehicle he drove out to a remote location this was a
00:18:09
gravel Quarry where he stabbed the teenager in the stomach and then threw him in a water-filled gravel pit the kid
00:18:20
of course begging for his life years later mous would would write about this attack and this is saying things like he
00:18:29
could even years later he could still hear Donald Jones the 15-year-old saying I'm only 15 please do not kill me please
00:18:39
don't hurt me the the 15-year-old drowned in that waterfill Gravel Pit it's amazing that David was able to read
00:18:47
or write with his horrible upbringing and his lack of Education yeah the body of this kid would not be found until
00:18:55
almost two months later I have no idea Captain to be perfectly honest with everyone it's completely unclear to me
00:19:05
how David mouse was caught for this and and but he was eventually charged with the murder of Donald Jones this is a
00:19:12
stranger on Stranger attack right I don't know what led to him but what we do know is that before David Mouse could
00:19:19
be prosecuted he decides boom I'm out of here he took off for Texas so in December of 198 81 the same year while
00:19:29
mouse was in the Lone Star State the following incident took place a 14-year-old boy named Steven Anderson
00:19:37
was walking home from a 7-Eleven that's for those not familiar that's an old gas
00:19:43
station in galvaston Texas he's walking home with his buddy Richard sweet Mouse pulled up in a two-tone Chevy Blazer and
00:19:52
asked if they wanted to earn some money doing some work for him they both say yes but Mouse says I only need one of
00:20:03
you so Richard sweet he says you know what I had a bad feeling about the situation so I just said you know what
00:20:11
I'm not interested the other boy Steven Anderson climbed into the Blazer and told David mouse that he needed to call
00:20:20
his mother to let her know where he was so Mouse drove the kid to a motel a few blocks away and Steven walked into the
00:20:30
motel room before he could use the phone mous punched him in the back of the head
00:20:36
right then he put him on the bed and kept punching Stephen threatening that if he screamed or yelled he would kill
00:20:45
him Mouse took off the boy's pants and Steven says he does not recall anything after that up to this point where Mouse
00:20:55
drops the kid off at a park just a few hours later right he tries to give the kid some money saying you know don't
00:21:05
tell anybody what happened here's some money don't talk about this according to the police report the
00:21:13
kid was in the hospital for this attack for about a week he had several injuries
00:21:19
severe injuries to his arms face head shoulders and chest and a stab wound to the
00:21:25
abdomen there were marks on this kid's wrist that indicate that he was tied up and bound at some point during this
00:21:32
attack he later told the newspaper quote my mom said that they did test on me at
00:21:39
the hospital and I wasn't raped but I think he did rape me and my mom was just protecting me at the time and maybe it's
00:21:47
something that he's blocked out of his memory mouse was charged with causing bodily injury to a child he plad guilty
00:21:55
and was sentenced to 5 years years the Texas authorities were a aware of his outstanding warrant for the Jones murder
00:22:04
in Illinois and so while he was in prison in galston Cook County Illinois officials arrived down there to talk
00:22:13
with him about the Donald Jones murder case there again we see the repeated actions of this guy he confesses to
00:22:27
police that he killed Donald Jones however he refused to sign any type of written statement I
00:22:38
mean this guy is an absolute monster monster and what also is apparent here I think
00:22:46
is he's a loose cannon it seems like a lot of these attacks there's definitely some sexual
00:22:55
aspects to a lot of this Behavior Behavior but also a lot of this seems Revenge filled and and and hate filled
00:23:04
where it doesn't take much to make him fly off the rails and and attack someone to the point where he's stabbing people
00:23:12
yeah and I know I was making the joke that he looks like Nick nty mixed with the Ultimate Warrior it's almost you
00:23:19
know the the the whole character of The Ultimate Warrior was come in you be explosive and and then you're done right
00:23:27
and it's but it seems like that's kind of characteristic of of how David acts so Captain he's locked up for this
00:23:35
attack this what you could almost determine to be attempted murder but only charged with causing bodily harm to
00:23:45
a juvenile locked up in Texas Illinois officials come down and he verbally confesses to killing Donald Jones will
00:23:56
not sign a written statement what's discussed behind the scenes is that all of the parties
00:24:04
involved determined that we need to extradite David mouse back to Chicago so that he can be charged for the murder of
00:24:15
Donald [Music] Jones this show is sponsored by better help do you look forward to the holidays maybe
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today [Music] all right we're back cheers mates make sure you check out the store Page and
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I'm I'm just really proud of the beer run shirts I think you're going to enjoy them all of this stuff with with David
00:26:58
Mouse is now happening in 1983 Captain he's extradited from Texas back up to Illinois he's 28 years old at
00:27:08
this time this next part gets very confusing because he's extradited to face murder
00:27:17
charges the victim again Donald Jones yeah but what takes placees David mouse was institutionalized and basically sits
00:27:26
there for an entire decade while not a whole lot happens with the murder charge itself this is because they're trying to
00:27:36
evaluate David Mouse to see if he is sane or not so there was a a big discrepancy between the experts who
00:27:47
disagreed in their assessments of this man's sanity some of the according to court
00:27:54
records some of the medical experts found him to be insane and others found him to be quite sane and that he should
00:28:03
be tried for this murder well they all found him to be a pile of [ __ ] well didn't one of the police officers write
00:28:10
something like on on the cover sheet of this where he says um he's a bad guy gayy type yeah that was from the
00:28:19
extradition paperwork where one of the detectives called him a gasey type which is very interesting because that is what
00:28:28
we would later see in the 2003 murders it's so much like gy but it's I mean it's like Dean
00:28:36
Coral we've seen this time and time again Jeffrey dmer was doing the same thing it's if you want to if you want to
00:28:44
attract teenage boys to hang out with you and you're an adult give them some alcohol give them some money give them
00:28:51
some marijuana and that's stuff that they can't get elsewhere and they will hang out with you yeah and then and then
00:28:58
we've also seen that after you give those said teenage boys marijuana or beer that even times where these guys
00:29:09
are they're offering them a rubb and tug or they're offering them you know how about you suck me off or I suck you off
00:29:16
or whatever it is right it's almost like some of these these teenagers will just
00:29:22
go well I didn't know if he was joking or not or or I thought that was strange but he he never touched me yeah Bob
00:29:29
bordell did the same thing the way that he's a little bit different from gasy and more like he's on a fat slob more
00:29:37
like Dean coral and more like Jeffrey dmer in my opinion is that he mous according to his own words later was
00:29:48
looking for a victim and I know gayy was looking for a victim but the situation with gasy was a little different most of
00:29:55
the his victims were worked for him or the lore the the ruse was giving them jobs you said jobs where in this
00:30:05
situation it's simply mous supplying them with alcohol and drugs Dean Coral very similar situation although Dean
00:30:15
Coral the Candyman had other teenagers bringing these teenagers to his home Jeffrey dmer simply picked on on poor
00:30:23
people he picked on poor young victims and would use small amounts of money in a lot of occasions to get these teenage
00:30:31
boys back to his apartment Jeffrey D the sugar daddy David Mouse told detectives
00:30:36
cuz they asked him they're like well how did you pick your victims and he said I would watch in the
00:30:42
neighborhood and I would see the kids whose parents never seemed to be around the kids who were always out hanging out
00:30:50
on the street the ones that were always outside and I knew that I could approach
00:30:55
them and I could off off for them things that they probably wanted beer cigarettes marijuana money and such and
00:31:02
I could get them to become my friend and spend some time with me yeah well I think the other thing though too is uh
00:31:09
because he was uh I guess you would say abandoned by his family there probably had to be a a loneliness there for David
00:31:20
and so find other individuals that are lonely because the Common Thread it seems like in most these crimes or at
00:31:26
least a high percentage of the crimes that he's committing is like you said they're friends they became friends MH
00:31:35
they they were friends before they became victims so David mouse was finally held legally accountable for the
00:31:42
Donald Jones murder but as we said he pretty much sat there for a decade while they tried to determine if he was sane
00:31:49
or not to charge him with this so he's not charged until May of 1994 to which Captain I know you know what what takes
00:32:00
place here he pled guilty yeah but like you said that's kind of it's his makeup yeah but I think that has a lot to do
00:32:11
with as far as when they say he's insane or not insane I think the fact that he is confessing to these crimes proves
00:32:21
that he is of sane mind he's sane enough to say what I've done is insane and I should not be around other people he
00:32:32
plad guilty he was sentenced to 35 years in prison at his sentencing the brother
00:32:41
of the victim stands up and tells the Cook County circuit court judge quote please do not let him out to hurt any
00:32:51
other kid again David mouse was out of prison 5 years later you said he was sentenced to 35 years yes and he gets
00:33:01
out in five okay so this is what's horrific but I mean he must be he seriously he must be giving hand jobs to
00:33:11
to every Pro officer well no there was there was some laws that were in place at the time that were just bad laws and
00:33:20
other states have been guilty of this too throughout our history where they have the prison population is
00:33:27
overcrowded so they're they're trying to speed up the the the process and yeah what they end up doing is letting these
00:33:35
guys out way too soon in this particular situation what we have is in 1981 the year that Mouse killed Donald Jones in
00:33:44
the state of Illinois state law called for murderers and others to get credit for everyday served it was under this
00:33:53
situation Captain they're basically getting a two for one on the days served keep in mind he's been sitting there
00:34:03
this whole time while they try to determine if he's sane or insane this is roughly about 12 years so mouse gets
00:34:11
credit for all 12 of these years he serves five years in prison so now we're up to 17 and he's getting a two for one
00:34:18
credit so if you do the math according to mous and according to the sentencing laws at the time he did almost all of
00:34:26
the 35 your sentence it's just a it's just a broken system it's a it's a bad law and
00:34:33
just think about what's happening at this time you we have uh the War on Drugs is happening they're they're
00:34:40
locking up individuals for selling crack and for selling marijuana and putting them in jail for all this time but on
00:34:47
the other hand you have a situation here where where David Mouse is let out it's
00:34:52
absolutely ridiculous so now David Mouse is getting out of prison again and every
00:34:57
victim after this should sue the state well they could all still be alive it's yeah it's again it's just bad state law
00:35:04
at the time and they did go on to change that and M mainly because of this case and and some others as well but he's
00:35:13
getting out after this time served David Mouse did not again he does not want out of
00:35:19
prison oddly enough in 1999 Mouse wrote a five-page letter to the Illinois Department of Corrections
00:35:27
asking that he not be released from prison even though he had done his time mous wanted to be classified as a
00:35:34
sexually violent prisoner eligible to be held indefinitely he wrote quote when I
00:35:40
came to prison I would sit up at night thinking about how I would feel about the possibility of staying in prison for
00:35:47
the rest of my life and I came to the conclusion it's the right thing for my life and being in prison is where I
00:35:55
belong because I gave up the right to be free when I committed the crimes that brought me here in the first place look
00:36:02
I think maybe there would be a difference this guy seems apologetic maybe even a little bit reformed
00:36:09
possibly so they're going okay well the decision to let him out is not so bad if
00:36:15
he would have stated you know what you let me out I'm going to do it again you let me out I'm going to befriend
00:36:21
somebody and I'm going to murder them and and if you let me do that I'm going to be friend another one and kill them
00:36:29
and befriend another one and kill them and I'm just not going to stop killing people because that's who I am well the
00:36:36
Department of Corrections stated that he did not meet the criteria to be placed on any to be placed on that list and
00:36:43
basically held in their facilities so despite all of this he's released and on parole in
00:36:50
1999 he lived in Oak Park Illinois you know he's not going to be allowed to leave the state while he's still on
00:36:56
parole so he's going to live there until 2001 well at least until 2001 without committing any known crimes right
00:37:07
because years later he said that he attacked an ex prison mate this man's name is Anthony merer Mouse said that he
00:37:16
had Anthony visit him with the promise that the two would start a marijuana grow operation together M said that he
00:37:24
had the funds to buy a large piece of property and start up this whole operation but of course this was all a
00:37:31
lie mous attacked Anthony maer with a pipe and according to Anthony he says he yelled at Mouse to stop and eventually
00:37:42
he did so merer survived Mouse then took Anthony to the hospital even signing the
00:37:49
papers to admit him to the hospital the attack on Anthony Maser required Anthony
00:37:56
to get 48 Staples and 26 stitches and of course we later learned that Mouse says that he he lied about
00:38:05
the marijuana grow farm he made the whole thing up because he wanted a friend he later wrote quote it's true
00:38:15
that I only met Anthony because I lied to him and I told him I had lots of money from selling drugs right I was
00:38:22
hoping in time I could turn that lie into a truth as we became better friends but Anthony wanted to live in Wisconsin
00:38:31
so that Saturday afternoon I tried to get him drunk and then I beat his head in with a pipe end quote Anthony decided
00:38:40
to try to press charges but this was after several months he waited so this was after several months and police
00:38:48
later said that they didn't have sufficient evidence for an arrest after that much time had passed so another
00:38:55
very V vient vicious attack that almost left another person dead and murdered he's not even charged with anything in
00:39:04
this situation it's so strange too it's like in this case maybe a little bit different because his friend wants to
00:39:10
move to Wisconsin so I think there's a part of him that well I'll kill him so he can't leave me he doesn't leave me
00:39:18
yeah yeah I don't want him to leave me but and I think that makes this victim different as the other ones and maybe he
00:39:26
befriended these people then then he was afraid we we don't know if there was an
00:39:30
interaction between any of these other victims where oh I said something and I I didn't think they were going to be
00:39:36
friends with me anymore so I killed them too I almost think there was part part of something in his psyche like I said
00:39:42
before something that is telling him you like me you're my friend and that makes
00:39:48
you awful could be and he hates himself and therefore he hates anybody that would accept him or like him right but
00:39:55
what's interesting and what you're getting at here too is that time and time again he is friends with all of
00:40:02
these victims before they are his victim with the exception of Donald Jones who is basically a surrogate victim for the
00:40:10
person he sought for the teenager he went looking for and could not find right so David Mouse parole ended in
00:40:17
2002 and it was then early the next year in 2003 that he moved to Hammond Indiana where we now know that he killed
00:40:28
the three teenage boys that were hanging out at his apartment and buried him in cement in his basement he's one that
00:40:36
immediately people when they learn about David Mouse he's not a very well-known serial killer he is in Northwestern
00:40:45
Indiana because that's where they he killed three victims most people when they learn
00:40:51
about David Mouse they say he's got to have more victims the span of crimes between the murders it's it's 29
00:41:01
years and three murders at the end of one spectrum and two at the the beginning of the other and 29 years he's
00:41:10
got to have more victims he has more victims he just didn't kill them is what it appears to me because what we need to
00:41:17
keep in mind is out of that 29 years he's basically locked up for about 21 years of that
00:41:25
time period he's not out and free for the entire 29 years cuz his Situation's very unique
00:41:32
he's convicted of murder serves some time and he's released later convicted of another murder serves some time and
00:41:39
is released again we've seen this in other cases Kenneth McDuff the broomstick killer who we talked about
00:41:48
when we covered the yogurt shop murders yeah he's another situation where he murdered someone he was convicted of
00:41:56
murder and then released he gets out and he kills again Jack Henry Abbott the author of in the belly of the Beast same
00:42:06
thing he murdered someone he's in prison he writes the book in the belly of the Beast people fall in love with this guy
00:42:13
they read his book and they're like oh he's he's a victim on some level himself and he served a good amount of prison
00:42:19
time let's go ahead and let him out his fans called for him to be let out they let him out and sure enough he kills
00:42:25
somebody else again yeah so this is not something that we haven't seen before but it it is a very uncommon situation
00:42:36
where you kill serve time you're released you kill again mouse does this three different times which is
00:42:44
incredibly unique but then you also have the situation of he is a rare serial killer because of
00:42:55
remorse this guy almost shows Contrition where he he's remorseful and penitent of of his crimes and of his murders and
00:43:10
he's weird because that word remorse is really difficult to slap on to David mous you know he has said multiple times
00:43:21
my victims did not deserve what they got right what I did to these people they did not deserve this so he at least at
00:43:29
at the very least identifies them as a victim some serial killers blame their actions on the victims
00:43:37
themselves but with David mous I don't know that I would use the word remorse I think that it's misused in this
00:43:43
situation I think that his situation seems to me more of he recognizes himself as evil he does
00:43:53
not approve of his actions and he knows the only way that he's not going to do these again is if
00:44:01
he remains locked up lock me up and throw away the key so I can't go out there and be evil right but what we see
00:44:10
with David is they lock him up and they always release him yes yes he does and that's even when
00:44:22
he even when they go to release him he goes don't don't release me and I think at some point he had to go this system
00:44:31
is not going to protect anybody else you know I I can't stop whatever I'm doing I've been telling everybody I
00:44:40
can't stop but they keep letting me out So eventually I'll get out eventually we'll do this again well in in reviewing
00:44:50
this case Captain when I saw that first conviction for murder he plad guilty in the first situation and he says as part
00:44:58
of my plea agreement I would like to not be put in the general prison population and I
00:45:05
always thought at first that maybe that is because he does not want prison Justice to come down on him you know we
00:45:13
said this time and time again Charles Manson was terrified that somebody was going to murder him in prison right and
00:45:19
he did a lot of things made a lot of maneuvering so that he would be kept in isolation or in special housing or
00:45:27
special wing of the prison so it'd be less likely that somebody could attack and kill him I assume that going into
00:45:34
this with David Mouse I now look at this and go well is there a chance that he didn't want to be put in the p in the
00:45:42
general prison population because he thought he would kill somebody there yeah because people are lonely in
00:45:51
prison they become friends and what does David do with his friends he murdered murders them or or tries to murder
00:45:58
them after David mouse was convicted and sentenced to three life terms this in 2005 David mous wrote to the detective
00:46:08
in charge of the case in Hammond Indiana the the one that arrested him David uh detective Johnson who at this
00:46:17
point after being convicted David Mouse considers the detective to be a friend of his he writes to him and he says
00:46:25
quote not now but when the time is right I will do the right thing for the parents and for the
00:46:32
taxpayers who have to be pissed with the thought of having to pay to keep an evil
00:46:38
person like me alive end quote then in January of 2006 mous got word that he was about to
00:46:49
be transferred to the doc facility to begin serving his life sentence he was still in in the Lake County Jail at this
00:46:57
time his attorney his defense attorney was Thomas vains who visited him the day before the
00:47:07
transfer he said that he saw no hint that David was going to kill himself yeah sometimes there's no sign
00:47:16
but Mouse did tell him that he was thinking about it and he told his attorney he was thinking about it in
00:47:23
some vague terms where he said someday day I will kill myself but at the end of this meeting David mous gave his defense
00:47:32
attorney several of his personal items the next day on January 19th at 3:50 a.m. mous hung himself with a braided
00:47:43
bed sheet in his cell the hanging broke his neck and he was found brain dead he's alive but brain dead right so
00:47:55
they trans transferred him to St Anthony Medical Center in Crown Point but the next day I wonder who got all the trophy
00:48:02
as his brother debated turning off the life support mous died of heart failure you almost wonder if like the universe
00:48:10
wanted Mouse to suffer a little bit well his attorney Thomas vain said quote I think he was determined to die on his
00:48:19
own terms and if he couldn't get the death penalty this was his second choice now David Mouse did leave a seven page
00:48:28
suicide note and here are some excerpts from that he likes to write my he says my brother was right about one thing I
00:48:35
should have been given the death sentence for all of my evil acts of violence that I committed in life he
00:48:42
goes on to say the day after the Hammond Police came to my home I decided to leave for some place unknown I wasn't
00:48:49
running to keep from being punished because I always knew I should be destroyed and killed like they sometimes
00:48:56
do to a wild animal that escapes from confinement for I know how to punish myself and I only left that day to
00:49:05
punish myself for the shameful evil Life I Lived and because of the embarrassment
00:49:11
I would cause the people who knew me and allowed me into their homes yeah my greatest fear of suffering was for the
00:49:20
pain sorrow and grief the parents would feel when they learned their loving Sons
00:49:26
were gone again insane acts but he knows they're insane which I believe makes him
00:49:33
a sane person we talk about and people question did David Mouse commit more murders and one thing that I find
00:49:41
fascinating is that his defense attorney says he does not believe David Mouse committed any other murders and this is
00:49:51
because David Mouse wrote a lot when he was in prison toward the end of his life
00:49:57
before he took his life not just in the suicide note that was several pages long
00:50:02
but he also kept a diary where he talked about attacks that law enforcement were
00:50:08
not aware of or attacks that didn't lead that didn't end in Murder but it didn't
00:50:15
end in a conviction either and I think that his attorney is look his attorney is the real deal this attorney vins
00:50:26
because vins has seen this from both ends from both sides of the fence vins used to be a prosecutor he prosecuted
00:50:36
other murderers he sent other murderers to death sentences and then later in life he
00:50:45
became a defense attorney and defends this serial killer and much like with the people that defended
00:50:53
gasy your your obligation really to your client at that point when you know this
00:51:00
guy is 100% guilty of murdering people an evil an evil is not to keep him out of prison it's to keep him from getting
00:51:09
the death penalty and I think that vains is the one that says look there's no doubt in my mind that
00:51:18
David mous wanted to die and we know that for a fact because he did kill himself and vain says that had he
00:51:28
committed any other murders had David Mouse committed any other murders that would have got him a step closer to the
00:51:34
death penalty he would have told us about him that death penalty was his number one choice on how to die suicide was his
00:51:46
second option another note from the suicide note another piece from the suicide note Captain David Mouse wrote
00:51:53
in my life I committed five horrible murders I killed Jame mcclister age 13 Donald Jones age 16 Nicholas James age
00:52:04
19 James Rani age 16 and Michael Dennis age 13 for these five were very special in how they were so kind caring
00:52:16
thoughtful joyful and loving young people who did not deserve to die and I have prayed many days that I could go
00:52:25
back through time and undo the pain sorrow and grief that I have caused their families friends and the neighbors
00:52:33
from their communities for I know these five were very much loved and will forever be dismissed I feel like David
00:52:41
Edward Mouse attorney said it best when he said quote David mous was a one-of-a-kind client with an outsized
00:52:50
drive for self-standing and atonement he was capable of horri iic violence with an equal capacity for contrition David
00:52:59
was genuinely sorry for hurting others right up to the time that he did it again I want to thank everybody so much
00:53:25
for joining us here this week in the garage if you need more True Crime garage check out our bonus show called
00:53:33
off the Record it's on Stitcher premium and just a reminder all of our episodes are available everywhere from episode
00:53:42
one to episode now they're all available wherever you listen to podcast that's right thank you Captain that's a lot of
00:53:51
good stuff for your earballs how about some good stuff for your eyeballs a little recommended reading if you will
00:53:59
this week we are recommending darker than night the true story of a brutal double homicide and an 18year long Quest
00:54:06
For Justice by Tom Henderson this was actually a longtime listener and friend of the show Tim up in Michigan
00:54:15
recommended this book to me and now I'm recommending it to all of you that's Darker Than Night by Tom Henderson and
00:54:22
you can find that great title and any more on our recommended page at true Crim garage.com and until next week be
00:54:30
good be kind and don't [Music] lter [Music] you can start your day off right when
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