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Special Operations forces visit your local Ashley store or shop online today and make every snooze count financing is
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subject to credit approval C store or ashley.com for [Music] [Applause] details [Music]
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[Applause] welcome to True Crime garage wherever you are whatever you are doing thanks
00:01:47
for listening I'm your host Nick and with me as always is a guy that's number two in your programs and in our batting
00:01:53
order but of course number one in your hearts he is the captain also known as the second best
00:02:00
in the garage thank you thank you thank you it's good to be seen and it's good to see
00:02:06
[Music] you I'm excited about this beer here Captain look at me I'm I'm chair dancing
00:02:16
yeah that's kind of embarrassing you know most of the time we pick a beer because it's from the area of the story
00:02:22
that we're covering other times we pick a beer because you know maybe the name is clever maybe there's a clever play on
00:02:28
words in there and then some sometimes as is the case today we select a beer that frankly we just really want to
00:02:34
drink it so today we are excited to be trying we don't need no stinking Coast by the hardworking people at six sense
00:02:41
Brewing Company in the Cozy town of Jackson Ohio Garage grade four out of five bottle caps we don't need no
00:02:47
stinking Coast is a super hazy double IPA brewed in that East Coast style and it's got a low hop High Citrus thing
00:02:55
going on and this delicious beer from the six sense Brewing Company was brought To Us by these hardworking
00:03:01
Citizens First up we have to thank Andrew and Janice from well I'm guessing from Jackson County Ohio because they
00:03:08
are the ones that sent us the 6 cents beer and the bang so a big thank you to Andrew and Janice next we have to thank
00:03:16
all the beautiful ladies at Rachel's Cakes that's Melissa Jodie Tina and of course Rachel thank you ladies we like
00:03:23
your cakes next we have Tiffany and Guam she's sending us a thank you because she
00:03:28
was Bing list to True Crime garage during her 20 hours of travel from Guam to Thailand well you could have came and
00:03:36
visited us but I guess you don't like us that much and a big we like a jib to Kathy and Rockwell Iowa and a big big
00:03:45
thank you to two loyal and longtime listeners we have Rick and Monica in San Antonio Texas yeah and we have a big
00:03:51
shout out to Jessica from Hereford what kind of what kind of name is that I was theref for now I'm here
00:04:00
for Arizona big we like your gym and last but not least down in holy Springs North Carolina a shout out to Elizabeth
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so thank you to everybody for filling up the fridge this week and if you want to
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buy us around for next week's show go to True Crime garage.com and click on the Donate button and if you'd like to
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follow us on social media Facebook Snapchat Twitter all that stuff you can follow us at True Crime garage all right
00:04:24
that's enough of the business everybody gather around grab a chair grab a beer let's talk some True
00:04:32
[Music] Crime this is true crime garage and this is the case of the fifth nail [Music]
00:05:08
we couldn't tell you this story without first telling you about a website the fifth Nail website for the fifth nail.
00:05:17
blogspot.com the site is an online web blog that feels and reads much like a personal Journal a personal journal from
00:05:25
the blogs Creator the name the fifth nail comes from a according to the sight's Creator
00:05:31
an old myth a myth about the crucifixion of Christ and States gypsies crafted five
00:05:38
nails for the crucifixion of Jesus Christ but only four were used by the Romans the fifth nail was intended to
00:05:45
pierce the heart of Christ but the gypsies hid the nail from the Romans depending on which story you follow from
00:05:52
the blog the gypsies were either rewarded or punished for having done this rewarded for trying to protect Christ
00:06:08
and having gone against the Romans or punished for causing the already very painful death to last longer than
00:06:16
necessary Other Stories on the blog would say the fifth nail is a sacred artifact A Relic that holds great power
00:06:25
but once you get past the crafty name within the journal ENT the writer has made it obvious this is a
00:06:32
one-person protest site one person voicing their opinions against the registration laws of sex offenders
00:06:41
stating that punishments for having committed crimes only lead to more crimes the fifth nail blog was created
00:06:48
in January of 2004 on this Blog the writer spoke of past crimes they had committed about
00:06:55
their daily life and about wanting to change the penal system and also wanting to have a closer
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relationship with God in one of the first posts the writer states this site can be a voice for repressed
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criminals the site nor the Blogger condones criminal Acts or behavior but rather this is a reminder that the
00:07:17
criminal too just like the rest of us is a human being in other post the author says the
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Blogger is not a pedophile and if you review the post regarding past crimes committ commed it is obvious they
00:07:31
believe these were simply crimes committed by a confused young person who was acting out because of
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abuse they had suffered this tone rings throughout other posts suggesting simply
00:07:43
that criminals are victims too furthermore it is the belief of the fifth nail that the cure for Crime
00:07:49
criminals and criminal activity is love much like Christ taught people to love their
00:07:56
enemies the Blogger also States they knew all about abuse from every angle from the perspective of not only the
00:08:03
abuser but the victim as well and they were recommending lighter and less strict punishments for offenders saying
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offenders should be offered counseling and treatment programs rather than jail time in April of 2005 the readers of the
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fifth nail would notice an obvious change into the tone and mindset of the author by now the author was clearly
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depressed and most likely suicidal the blog post making reference to what the author calls the demons
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saying things like the demons are stronger than ever I am alone and only God can save me I might be the only one
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who can understand the nature of the Demons I'm very afraid because if the demons win a lot of people are going to
00:09:01
get hurt very badly hurt I continue to pray that God will help me please pray for
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me because I don't know if the right choice is even an option now on Wednesday May 11th there was a post
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submitted titled the demons have taken over and it stated it's too late it's too late for God to take care of the
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Demons because the demons have locked up the Happ person in the same dungeon where the demons had once been locked
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up and now with the happy person locked up the demons are loose and now I am very very
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afraid the demons have caused me to question my faith to God and I am Losing My Religion and that is how they got the
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key and got out of the dungeon and locked me up not only am I afraid but I am also
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very very angry angry with Society I'd like to kill myself but I don't know if I
00:10:05
can I would like to hurt society as much as possible and then die as for the happy person I once was
00:10:15
well the happy person was just a dream and as it turns out the happy person never really existed at all turns out
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the demons were alive and well long before the dream of the happy person two days later on Friday the 13th
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the author made the last blog post it was a lengthy post but the gist of it the author
00:10:39
wrote is taking people with me right or wrong and does it really matter a million years from now will
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there even be people will any of this matter I have a disease I have contracted from
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society I hope I will be able to finish my online journals before dying which I hope will be soon or maybe with some
00:11:04
help I could turn myself in that might still be a possibility but the problem with that is
00:11:12
the demons are in control and not the happy [Music] person [Music] just 2 days after the final blog post on
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the fifth nail.com website on May 15th 2005 our story takes us to a place called Calene Idaho for those of you not
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familiar that's about 30 Mi east of Seattle and the population back then would have been roughly about 40,000
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people well our story will take place just outside of there near Lake cyland Lane Robert Hollingsworth hired a
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neighbor boy to mow his grass he hired 13-year-old Slade grony Slade was your typical American young teenage boy his
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family did not have much money so he was helping out doing some work for his neighbor Mr hollingworth you know to
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earn some walking around money the arrangement the two had made was that Robert Hollingsworth would get the exact
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amount of money that they had agreed on and paid the boy the following day so on
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May 15th when the work was done Slade grony returned to his home across the street where he lived with his mother
00:12:34
and his mother's long-term boyfriend now we SL said that Slade had finished the work for the day over the hollingworth
00:12:41
property and returned home mhm well the next day on May 16th in the evening Robert Hollingsworth goes over to the
00:12:48
neighbor's house to pay the boy for his hard work on his walk over he can see the family is likely home as the two
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vehicles that they own were were parked in the driveway in their normal spots and as he gets closer he notices that
00:13:04
both the vehicles have several of the doors sitting open he walks past the vehicles ducking down to look inside and
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he continues on walking towards the front door the car doors are open but both in both cars but nothing seems to
00:13:21
be out of the ordinary as hollan worth approaches the front door he's going to notice some blood on the wall yeah he's
00:13:27
going to see what what appears to be quite a bit of blood um as he takes another step he can see that there's
00:13:33
there's blood on the actual door and on the porch steps as well so we have it on
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the walls the door and the steps well this frightens hollingworth and and of course he runs back to his house and he
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goes for the phone he calls 911 and he reports that when he went to his neighbor's house uh he thinks that he
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saw a lot of blood on the front porch in the door you know so please send the police in an ambulance as quickly as
00:14:00
possible mhm members of the sheriff's department arrive at the scene they knock on the doors and they receive no
00:14:06
answer but of course the blood on the door in the front porch will give the officers probable cause to enter the
00:14:14
home they quickly find a side door to the home unlocked and they enter according to the officers the first
00:14:22
thing they notice is that there's blood everywhere they see two bodies lying dead in an air area between the kitchen
00:14:30
and the living room around each body there is a large pool of blood both victims had been bound with duct tape
00:14:37
and and zip ties both had been hit many times in the head and face one of the victims appeared to have been shot in
00:14:45
the head possibly at close range this was the body of 13-year-old Slade he was face down in a puddle of blood there was
00:14:55
quite a good amount of duct tape wrapped around his head and around his wrist as
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well and laying next to Slade will be his mother in her own pull of blood this is Brenda groy uh she too is faced down
00:15:07
in Blood and it appeared that the blood had been coming from her head her wrists
00:15:12
were bound behind her back and her feet bound with zip ties mhm in the living room there was another obvious sign of
00:15:19
violent death and this is similar to what the sheriff's had just seen a man later identified as Mark McKenzie lay in
00:15:27
blood wristband with duct tape and feet was zip ties and this would be the long-term boyfriend correct he's
00:15:34
actually the owner of the home officers surmised that he too had been killed by either a gunshot or blunt force trauma
00:15:43
to the Head Robert hollingworth also tells the sheriffs that less than 24 hours before the bodies were discovered
00:15:50
that he had called the sheriff's department to report a suspicious truck he found on his property mhm the crime
00:15:57
scene was so bloody and horrific that many of the deputies nearly got sick after a thorough search of the home
00:16:04
deputies noted that they found a lot of blood now this was all over the inside of the home and this included Footprints
00:16:12
handprints blood smears there was spatter on the walls and floor as well as droplets on the floor so the police
00:16:19
find three victims we have two adults and we have one teenage boy M but they don't find any other victims on the
00:16:27
property or in the home now this is late Monday night and by the time they go through the crime scene now we're close
00:16:34
to early Tuesday right and the sheriff's department they start notifying family members regarding the murders of their
00:16:42
loved ones one family member uh one family member of Brenda's is notified that three murder victims were found in
00:16:49
the home and the the lady she then tells them well you must be mistaken there should be five victims there not three
00:16:58
okay so the the the sheriff's department immediately are like what's going on why
00:17:02
would this this person that we're notifying tell us tell us that we should be seeing five victims here uh so when
00:17:09
pressed again she says the same thing you know there should be five victims here not three this is not the last the
00:17:17
sheriff's department would hear of this and after confirming this suspicion the sheriff's department realizes that they
00:17:25
have a whole new set of problems on their hands they not only have three murdered victims a killer or killers on
00:17:31
the loose but now they have two missing children to look for as well yeah we have 9-year-old Dylan and we have
00:17:38
8-year-old Shasta yeah cuz see at the time of the crime you know that particular night there were five people
00:17:44
in that house there's Mark McKenzie he's 37 years old he's the long-term boyfriend and the owner of the home as
00:17:51
we had stated there's Brenda grony uh the mother uh she's she's the mother of of five kids but three of her kids live
00:18:00
there so we have 13-year-old Slade who we had mentioned who was found dead in the home but we also have 9-year-old
00:18:07
Dylan uh that the captain captain mentioned as well as the little sister Shasta who's eight old Captain so uh
00:18:14
Brenda had two older kids that did not live at the house um and her ex-husband who was very active in his children's
00:18:22
lives had his own place and saw the children on a regular basis so now the sheriff's department law enfor forcement
00:18:28
are wondering where is Dylan and where is Shasta now of course there was a thorough search conducted at both the
00:18:36
groy property and then at the Hollingsworth property as well and at the discovery of the murders they
00:18:44
conducted these searches but again as once the suspicion was confirmed that we have missing children well they're going
00:18:50
to search again so we've just combined those two searches and listed what the sheriff's department noted as of
00:18:56
importance uh together we already talked about all the blood at the grany McKenzie house MH and we
00:19:03
talked about Mark and Brenda being bound with duck tape and zip ties uh tape on the wrist and zip ties binding the feet
00:19:11
Slade was only bound with duct tape around his wrist and some on his head as well but no zip ties on his ankles there
00:19:19
was a second structure on the property on the Mackenzie grony property this is is like a large shed um and should point
00:19:28
out before we get too far into this that these these properties that we're discussing they're very they're large
00:19:34
properties you know we're talking about uh large front yards large backyards so so couple maybe a acre and a half two
00:19:42
acres yeah yeah they're they're of substantial size so in this structure uh they find they find a additional
00:19:52
Vehicles now these were family vehicles in okay so this is more like a pool barn
00:19:56
or something correct correct and not a little shed a big a big uh pool Barn like you said they find some extra
00:20:02
vehicles on the grony property as well one including a camper I believe all of these vehicles end up belonging to the
00:20:09
grony or McKenzie family now on Mr hollingworth property they found a 1988 silver Ford pickup truck with Idaho
00:20:18
plates now this is registered to Lisa and Daniel Miller this is the vehicle this is the quote unquote abandoned
00:20:27
truck that Mr Hollingsworth had reported as suspicious earlier to the Sheriff's Department okay now he says that he
00:20:34
first saw it on the on the McKenzie grony property around 8:00 p.m. on Sunday May 15th he says that he then saw
00:20:44
it again the next day this would be very early about 6:30 in the morning but this
00:20:49
time the the truck was on his property so before these events had before these events he had never seen
00:20:57
this truck before uh the truck is still on his property at the time of the search in the bed of the truck the
00:21:04
sheriff's department they find a roll of duct tape and they also find a ball of wadded up duct tape as well this is duct
00:21:11
tape obvious obviously matching tape that was used at the murder scene yeah winter winter chicken dinner yeah so the
00:21:18
truck is their first major lead law enforcement stated quote nothing appeared to be stolen from the crime
00:21:25
scene except for the kids there was an amber alert that was issued for The Disappearance of 9-year-old Dylan grony
00:21:33
and his little sister 8-year-old Shasta grony search parties were sent out to search the wooded area surrounding the
00:21:40
family's homes and then extending out from there they conducted searches with both tracking and cadaver dogs both on
00:21:48
foot and on Horseback cuz one would hope that maybe why these attacks happen on on three individuals that maybe they
00:21:57
some somehow got away and uh or possibly that they were killed and their bodies were moved somewhere as I like to say
00:22:05
you're exactly right captain that the the first of what you said was exactly their suspicion they they were hopeful
00:22:11
and thought maybe these kids got away and they're hiding in the woods somewhere and they're just afraid to
00:22:16
come out because they're they're terrified at what they had seen or heard yeah so what the sheriff's department is
00:22:21
going to do is they're going to divide into two teams one is going to take on the triple homicide and the other team
00:22:26
is going to be searching for the two missing children yes and on Tuesday May 17th the sheriff's department they
00:22:33
announced that after interviewing friends in family of the victims uh that they have a person of interest a person
00:22:40
of interest has emerged from this group all right and this is Robert Roy lutner uh he's aged 33 he's a large guy he's
00:22:48
about 6' three 230 240 PBS right uh he's nicknamed concrete Bob uh he's also a friend of the family
00:22:58
okay he is someone that visited the home a couple of times just days before the murders and it's believed that he even
00:23:05
visited the home on Sunday evening maybe just hours before the slayings were committed so a friend of the longtime
00:23:13
boyfriend um yeah I I got the vibe that it was a friend of both of them um and but this is concrete Bob right right so
00:23:21
concrete Bob is the number one suspect at this time and how he emerges as a suspect is is like this okay so remember
00:23:28
we said that Brenda grony had two older children that did not live at the home yeah well one of these children this is
00:23:35
Jesse grony um he tells the sheriff's department that concrete Bob owed his mother and his mother's boyfriend about
00:23:43
$2,000 okay Jesse also explained that even though concrete Bob owed the family money there did not seem to be any bad
00:23:52
blood regarding this loan or any bad blood between the family and concrete Bob yeah but there's that psychological
00:24:00
thing that if you if you lend somebody money they instantly start resenting you even though you lent them money well the
00:24:08
thing here is you know he he states that even though the family didn't have much
00:24:14
money at all he didn't see he didn't see his mother and her boyfriend pressuring
00:24:20
concrete Bob to repay this money at anytime soon right but when the sheriff's department is talking to other
00:24:26
family members about rete Bob there their state in look um he you know maybe has a little bit of a criminal past but
00:24:34
he's he's not somebody that we would suspect of being able to do this yes what was his criminal past uh he had
00:24:41
some drug possession charges he also had domestic battery uh this was for fighting with a girlfriend outside of a
00:24:49
bar I guess this domestic battery charge ended up being reduced to just disturbing the peace uh he also had two
00:24:56
counts of fraud on his record as well now here's the suspicious thing though Captain concrete Bob took a trip um to
00:25:05
Boise the day after the bodies were found uh he drove a truck uh that that matched the truck found on the
00:25:13
Hollingsworth property but we we know that that was registered to some other people so there's a little confusion
00:25:19
there but still interest the sheriff's department they are looking for this concrete Bob who as we said conveniently
00:25:27
took a trip the day after the murders well they don't have to look very long or very hard because about a day after
00:25:35
they announced that he was a person of interest concrete Bob comes forward and he talks with the sheriff's department
00:25:42
they interview him for 16 hours wow they gave him a polygraph test and as what was reported was that concrete Bob
00:25:51
passed the polygraph test with flying colors mainly gray though so after all of this concrete Bob was cleared and
00:25:58
he's no longer a suspect the thing here is though Captain we have the autopsies to discuss now remember when the bodies
00:26:05
were found we have the situation where it was believed that the victims could have either been shot in the head or
00:26:12
they were killed by blunt force trauma to the Head the autopsies revealed that it was not gunshots but it was in fact
00:26:20
blunt force trauma to the head and did they have the weapon um they they had their suspicions but they were not going
00:26:27
to announce that to the public um what they found regarding the injuries were brain contusions and skull fractures uh
00:26:36
the sheriff's department as we said was not announcing the weapon they believed used in the attack however a local paper
00:26:44
was saying that a claw hammer was used on the victims well it's actually surprising that the sheriff department
00:26:51
talked to concrete Bob for as long as they did and they didn't you know give him every piece of the you know evidence
00:26:58
of what happened and get him to falsely confess oh like we've seen very recently
00:27:02
on this show do you know if the sheriff department has a time of death well what
00:27:07
they find out is this is based off of the body temperatures it was determined that the three had died either in the
00:27:13
late Sunday evening hours or early Monday morning hours so that doesn't doesn't tell us much we both could have
00:27:20
guessed that well they they weren't found until Monday evening so it it only it only really closes the window a
00:27:27
little bit but it it still leaves us a decent sized window to work with there now when they when they conduct the
00:27:36
toxicology reports uh the two on the on the adults revealed the presence of THC and methamphetamine and both Brenda and
00:27:45
Mark all right so they're smoking some pot yeah and they're doing a little bit of recreational drugs it it it looks
00:27:53
like um and there is there is no definitive proof wait so is meth considered recreational uh I I guess all drugs
00:28:04
might be considered recreational do seen that recreational to me but regardless the toxicology report reveals the
00:28:11
presence of both THC and methampetamine now even though there's no definitive proof of this the sheriff's department
00:28:19
was going to go with the theory that because five victims were controlled and at least three of them were bound there
00:28:28
there was a strong possibility that they were looking for more than one perpetrator yeah also they could not
00:28:34
find any sign of forced entry so this of course was suggesting a strong possibility that the victims knew the
00:28:44
perpetrators the the other strange thing here is that the McKenzie and groy household well it had plenty of firearms
00:28:52
in the home you know hunting is very is very popular in that area and that's something that some of of the family
00:28:57
members participated in right uh that not only were their firearms scattered kind of throughout in different parts of
00:29:04
the home uh several of these were loaded and they you know stashed loaded throughout the home found by the
00:29:11
sheriff's department but none of them were found near where the victims lay um so it it didn't appear that any of the
00:29:19
victims had tried to go for these weapons in any form of defense well they're high on meth one thing that the
00:29:26
sheriff's department was Wonder wondering about was maybe The Killers watched the house and may have been able
00:29:32
to pull off some kind of surprise attack in the middle of the night this would also be evidence why these guns were not
00:29:38
used for defense um but of course the sheriff's department is working with the expectation that the two missing
00:29:46
children Dylan and Shasta are still alive we'll get right back to the case of the fifth nail right after this quick
00:29:52
beer break [Music] this show is sponsored by better help do you look forward to the holidays maybe
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50% all right we're back cheers everybody cheers so we were going through some of the Sheriff's
00:32:16
Department's thoughts and feelings early on in this investigation some things that they had noticed at the crime scene
00:32:23
what that was leading them to believe and theor Riz regarding the the perpetrators that they were looking for
00:32:29
now I do want to point out here that the sheriff's department made sure to tell the media and the community that this
00:32:36
home this home was not a drug house the sheriff's department found no evidence to suggest that the house was used to
00:32:44
manufacture store or sell drugs and actually I don't believe that they found any actual drugs in the house at all so
00:32:53
everything here is is simply just pointing to the drugs being found in the in the system of the adults of Brenda
00:33:01
and Mark right so the sheriff department at this point is just basically stating
00:33:06
that recreational drug use has nothing to do with the actual crimes or the possible abductions of the two um
00:33:14
children yeah that's that's what the evidence is pointing towards now shortly into this investigation uh we had
00:33:21
already discussed one lead that went that went nowhere you know they're able to clear concrete Bob
00:33:27
um but the sheriff's department is going to catch a break uh this is when a white
00:33:32
van was spotted uh this white van was from Washington had Washington plates on it uh and was reported to the sheriff's
00:33:41
department now the vehicle was spotted about 70 Mi north of cordal Lane this would be near the Montana and can Canada
00:33:50
borders at a store that caters for hunters and outdoor enthusiasts the vehicle was reported because uh a man
00:33:59
was at the store with two children that got out of the vehicle they didn't buy anything they didn't actually even shop
00:34:07
at all the Man simply asked for directions he asked for directions to a place called Libby
00:34:15
Montana so the the police are very interested in this because we have this man here and he's got two children that
00:34:21
are of the same age as Shasta and Dylan in this vehicle heading out of the state well they search and search and
00:34:31
search for this vehicle and it doesn't turn up they're they're not able to locate the van that's with the
00:34:38
Washington plates well and it could be anybody I mean there's a lot of people traveling with two kids but those kids
00:34:44
are two kids of their own yeah and the thing is here Captain we would have a lot of similar sightings to this uh over
00:34:52
the course of some time because you know the sheriff's department really was doing everything they could to try to
00:34:58
find these these two children there were there were Billboards going up with both
00:35:03
of their pictures very you know big beautiful pictures of the two kids on there so that everybody could see their
00:35:08
faces you could get a sense of their height and their weight know where they're missing from and and there were
00:35:14
people looking for these kids all over the area so of course we're going to have some different quote unquote
00:35:20
sightings from time to time right and the sheriff's department has already looked into a close friend the concrete
00:35:25
Bob but also we' just assume that they'd have to look into family members especially because there are three
00:35:31
murders and two abductions mhm and the the children's father uh this is Steven grony of course he came under suspicion
00:35:40
um and and I say of course just because you know we know that that's a typical normal part of any investigative process
00:35:48
when you're investigating the murder and deaths of family members well you're going to be questioned you probably
00:35:55
should be questioned yeah you got look at the ex-husband or if there's an ex-wife or somebody anybody inside that
00:36:00
inner circle um but the but furthermore he became Under Suspicion a little bit more than normal because of of some of
00:36:09
the statements that he had made uh to the public into the media now on several occasions the father Steven groy now he
00:36:18
he was pleading to the killers of the family and to the abductors of the CH two children on these you know press
00:36:27
conferences and interviews any chance that he got he was he was speaking directly to the abductors and the one
00:36:35
thing that the sheriff's department they found strange was that Steven grony kept
00:36:40
saying he said this multiple times that that the abductor should drop the children off at a location of his
00:36:47
choosing and anonymously phone in where he had dropped them off and that that they should please do not kill these
00:36:57
kids because they had nothing to do with this and he would often say that the kids had nothing to do with this and
00:37:04
that's the statement that that caused the sheriff's department to to have some uneasy feelings about Steven groaning
00:37:12
because their their whole thing was they could not they could not establish or determine a motive for the crime that
00:37:20
took place right and now we have somebody on the inner circle saying that the children have nothing to do with
00:37:27
this right almost like assuming he knows what the motive was mhm and also I think
00:37:32
it's very suspicious on the idea of hey just uh pick a place drop him off and call an anonymous it's almost like he's
00:37:39
setting up a scenario for him to be able to drop off the kids somewhere yeah yeah
00:37:44
you're right that or or that someone that he knows of could just drop them somewhere and not not be seen not be
00:37:51
caught especially if the kids aren't going to reveal who dropped them off or who's been holding them
00:37:57
um yeah then the issue becomes what's his Alibi for Sunday and Monday mhm and the other thing too is I think he's
00:38:06
pretty upfront and in the public eye quite a bit during this this investigation it's not like he's he's
00:38:12
hiding behind closed doors and he's phoning these things in he's he's at the Forefront of this well and the other
00:38:18
thing too is yeah maybe you see a motive or or anger or revenge or something against the ex-wife with the new
00:38:26
boyfriend but him killing his own teenage boy mhm you know I don't I don't know it doesn't
00:38:34
seem it doesn't seem extremely likely right uh the other thing here though Captain is you know during questioning
00:38:40
and things like that with the father of the children of Steven groy now the the other thing they were concerned about
00:38:48
was that they stated that he had failed parts of his polygraph test not they they weren't saying he failed the
00:38:56
polygraph test they were saying it appears he was deceptive at portions of this test but of course they would not
00:39:03
go on to to inform us as to what these portions of the test were that that they believed him to be that could be nerves
00:39:10
or anything I i' I'd really be interested in taking one myself just to see what kind of scenario that is and
00:39:18
and the effects of that mhm well and the thing too here is Captain you know a lot
00:39:23
of that's based off of you know your your what's going on with you internally at the time right so you you have this
00:39:31
horrible situation where your ex-wife has been killed right and your son has been killed and now you have a daughter
00:39:38
and son who are missing well you have a lot you got a lot of emotions in you at this probably a lot of anxiety running
00:39:45
through you and anger sadness all kinds of stuff MH and look I mean I think the important thing is you know especially
00:39:54
somebody that had kids with this with the lady that was murdered you know it's not just his ex-wife it's the mother of
00:40:01
his children so and now and now you have two missing children yourself and I think that's why you know this is this
00:40:07
is one reason why these tests aren't something that they use in the court of law because there there is errors and on
00:40:15
top of that a lot of the let's say determining whether somebody's deceptive or not is coming from an expert's
00:40:22
opinion right where you might be able to show this to another quote unquote expert and they say I'm not seeing any
00:40:29
signs of deception here yeah but I think it's a good barometer you know I still think it's something that they could use
00:40:36
during the investigation to give the the police some kind of lead yes I think it
00:40:41
I think it can be helpful when conducted by experienced uh investigators when you
00:40:46
have people that that have conducted these tests time and time again and have experience as far as many years
00:40:53
investigating these crimes because I'm a big believer in that old gut feeling and
00:40:58
I think that that comes with experience MH uh the thing here is Captain the the national Center for missing and
00:41:06
exploited children got involved we talked about the Billboards that were set up um and and you know this is one
00:41:12
of our favorite organizations uh they sent out my only my only issue is we donated money and
00:41:17
now we get like an email every day asking for more money well we've donated a few times but uh yeah yeah you're
00:41:25
right they they remind us that uh hey we're still here hey we're yeah we know we talk about you every other week on
00:41:31
the show um anyway they uh they sent out notifications Nationwide regarding the two missing children uh and they
00:41:39
distributed over 100,000 Flyers um throughout the Western American states now uh this this was interesting the way
00:41:50
that they did this they were contacting businesses and so if you had a gas station or a restaurant or something
00:41:57
like that they would they would send out a fax or an email to these different businesses and they would also send out
00:42:04
flyers wherever they could so they're trying to get the the pictures of these children in front of people that might
00:42:11
you know if someone stops for gas if someone goes into a store to to shop or to to buy food you know whoever took
00:42:19
these kids you would assume is somewhat on the run if the kids are still alive and the sheriff's department is working
00:42:26
with the expectation that the kids may still be on still be alive yeah I think it's I I think it' be silly to just
00:42:34
assume they're on the run I mean we've seen a lot of times where somebody is abducted and then they're taken back to
00:42:40
the person's layer or whatever M so that that's a big possibility they need to be
00:42:45
looking into as well so if somebody refers to their home as their layer we should just assume they're guilty of
00:42:52
horrible things well just well don't don't go over there for a barbecue is what I'm saying uh the the crime and the
00:42:59
missing children were also featured on America's Most Wanted uh they featured the story twice and I believe that they
00:43:06
ran it on two Saturdays in a row um these would be the two Saturdays following the when the crime actually
00:43:13
took place so nationally everybody is looking for these kids and meanwhile the investigators are still analyzing
00:43:22
evidence that they've collected from the crime scene but on a on a sad note they're also they're searching the local
00:43:31
landfills because they're wondering if maybe the kids were dumped somewhere right um you know these these are all
00:43:39
things that are necessary to do but one terrible thing that was really working against those fighting for a good
00:43:47
outcome well there was a a bit of a delay in getting the Amber Alert out for these two children so once that Amber
00:43:55
Alert alert goes out uh it would hit the emergency broadcast system uh the state
00:44:01
Lottery Commission all the news and media Outlets as well as the notification boards along the highways
00:44:07
in Idaho parts of Montana Washington and Oregan now part of the delay was because
00:44:15
at first they didn't even know that the kids were missing you know they didn't know that they had kids involved in this
00:44:20
crime until notifying the family about the three murders seems like something that you should be able to figure out
00:44:27
within you know a half an hour well then there was further delay because of a bunch of bureaucratic [ __ ] basically
00:44:35
so so the the family is killed and the two CH kids were taken either on late on May the 15th or early in the morning on
00:44:44
May the 16th according to the body temperatures right M um so the bodies are not discovered until late on the
00:44:52
16th they became aware of the missing children early on the 17th and the Amber Alert does not go out until the morning
00:44:59
of the 18th so that's just that's ridiculous yeah so by the time the Amber Alert goes out we have about 48 to 60
00:45:08
hours that have passed based on depending how you you shake it or or depending on the actual time of yeah
00:45:15
there there's a nine and an 8-year-old that their lives are depending on this stuff you don't mess it up yeah and the
00:45:24
the really aggravating thing here is I I mentioned bureaucratic [ __ ] well a lot of that was Jesus dropping the es
00:45:31
Bombs all over the place a lot of that was that at the time there there were people involved that said that they
00:45:38
didn't know that this particular crime or these two missing kids actually fit the criteria for an amber alert yeah it
00:45:48
should be this simple there's children missing issue a Amber Alert that's it thank you you know that's it eight and
00:45:55
NYE old world yes and the thing here that we got to keep in mind too that we have we have additional problems in this
00:46:03
crime right because we we all know how this we know how unlikely a good outcome is in a child/ stranger abduction
00:46:13
especially after 48 Hours has expired well and look we've covered how many cases now mhm you know I don't know I I
00:46:23
realized I didn't give a number there when you asked me yeah I don't know either because think about all the cases
00:46:28
that we haven't uh released because we never recorded them cuz we're just sitting around the garage that doesn't
00:46:34
count drunk um we should have recorded all that stuff because then then when we needed a week off but the thing here now
00:46:42
to me looking at this case as it's developing okay at first you start thinking yeah maybe this Revenge Type
00:46:49
killing you know maybe it's the ex-husband uh maybe it's a friend that they you know lent money to where's the
00:46:57
motive but now that you have A8 and nyear old missing to me the motive becomes more Sinister it
00:47:06
becomes um the motive starts leaning itself towards this idea that I had to kill the I had to kill the the parents
00:47:16
and the teenager because my Victim of choice is under let's say 10 or so MH and so now to me it's now
00:47:27
I I think you're going to your fear is that these kids are going to die but my initial fear is what kind of torture are
00:47:35
they going to have to go through before that death occurs right and to me then this motive becomes uh
00:47:43
sexual yeah and and you're right you're exactly right we have a crime where they
00:47:48
can't figure out the motive but the other thing that the investigators are saying at the time is that this they're
00:47:55
not releasing what they believe the motive to be however they're stating that you know this is a crime for which
00:48:01
there's no profile for this type of crime there's nothing that they were taught coming up that that would teach
00:48:08
them about this exact type of crime and I think you can kind of figure out exactly what motive they believe they're
00:48:14
working with because what did they State very early on into the investigation the
00:48:20
sheriff's department said that the only thing that appeared to have been stolen from the crime scene was the kids right
00:48:27
so not only are we playing behind the eightball because because of the delay in the amber alert but also think about
00:48:35
this you know we don't have a suspect name we do not have a suspect vehicle description or a direction of travel for
00:48:44
this vehicle and plus keep in mind in Idaho you can be in in another state in minutes almost heck you could you could
00:48:53
jump the Canadian border right but with every state depending on where you're at in the state you can be
00:49:00
out of the state within minutes no I get that but they they were in northern Idaho and if you picture the the outline
00:49:05
of Idaho that puts you in several States very quickly um you know and we stated that 48 hours is kind of the the the
00:49:12
mark there that you got to be concerned about because 74% of kidnapped children that were that are killed they are
00:49:20
killed within 3 hours of the abduction Jesus yeah and that's why we donate our money of course and the thing
00:49:29
here is you know for everybody out there listening that has pitched into the beer
00:49:33
fund cheers you know cheers to you because you are the reason that we donated money to the the national Center
00:49:41
for missing and exploited children on several occasions because you know once the fridge is full we'll just be greedy
00:49:46
at that point if we're if we're not passing that along and trying to do some good with it and it's one hell of an
00:49:51
organization it's it really is it's it's been uh the the recovery rate has increased uh for finding these kids and
00:50:00
returning them home safely has increased since the organization and Foundation has been created so it really truly is a
00:50:06
good thing yeah and we're not trying to Pat ourselves on the back we are kind of
00:50:09
greedy bastards cuz we do fill up two fridges before we but we're also trying to Pat Pat everybody else on the back at
00:50:16
the same time right my hand is getting tired all right so we have concrete Bob and and he's ruled out correct and we
00:50:24
have the ex-husband yes um and and I think I think with the ex-husband here Captain jaon I think um
00:50:32
no Steven grony yeah Steph Jabron uh I think that we have a situation here where there might be some speculation
00:50:41
and some suspicion a little bit but I don't think that it's like something that they're really putting a ton of
00:50:46
weight into the guy is obviously been horribly affected by the crime uh and he's like I said he's on the front line
00:50:55
line of this investigation he's out there with his time he's pleading to the abductor he's speaking to the killers
00:51:03
and asking for the children back right but so so he's kind of on the sideline we're we're going to keep looking at him
00:51:09
but what's next in the investigation okay so let's let's fast forward a little bit here right because those are
00:51:16
all jump into the DeLorean those are all things that we're taking place within the first week or two of the
00:51:22
investigation and before we moved on from that I wanted to bring up the problem with the Amber Alert because it
00:51:27
is a good system when you when you put it into into action immediately right that's the whole point of it so anyway 3
00:51:35
weeks into the investigation now hope is actually it's it's starting to fade by this point the sheriff's department they
00:51:43
they don't know who the killer or killers are nor do they know the whereabouts of Shasta and Dylan by this
00:51:51
time they had interviewed 700 people they had received and chased 1,700 tips and leads and they had nothing new to
00:52:01
announce to the media in the community at this point 3 weeks into the investigation no new information to
00:52:08
present anybody and of course they they have to have some information that they hold back right we know that well one
00:52:18
one investigator did offer up his opinion though regarding the crimes stating that the murders had to have
00:52:26
been premeditated because whoever perpetrated the murders brought the necessary materials with them to bind the victims
00:52:36
as well as bringing the murder instrument as well stating it was an extremely violent scene and in his
00:52:44
experience a violent crime scene usually means the motivation is one of three things for him it's either money drugs
00:52:53
or love stating that this is the type of crime scene that he would expect to see
00:53:00
involvement from like a Columbia drug lord or something like that but he also pointed out you know that Brenda grony
00:53:06
and Mark McKenzie they were not dealing with large sums of money at any point right they were also not dealing with
00:53:15
large sums of drugs and they themselves didn't show any signs of having drug issues they found drugs in their system
00:53:23
but they couldn't find any reason to point out that the that the adults had drug problems well that is ridiculous
00:53:30
because here look I I I don't think so go ahead okay well I I understand that people use drugs recre
00:53:38
recreationally I understand that people drink some beers maybe smoke a little pot once you start doing something like
00:53:46
meth it's a it's a whole different ball game so so the idea that they don't have
00:53:52
drug issues that's to me that's just that's me that's my opinion I get what you're
00:53:59
saying I I do get what you're saying because to me you're right you would think that there if you had to put out
00:54:05
all the drugs on the line and and make and make a line draw a line in the sand that says okay these are for
00:54:10
recreational use and everything on this side would suggest that you have some kind of drug issue or problem I'm with
00:54:17
you I would probably I would put methamphetamine in the side of you got a drug problem right um you know but but
00:54:25
this is the sheriff's department stating this and I think that some doesn't mean
00:54:29
they're correct it doesn't mean that they're correct but the reason why I agree with their side on this one is
00:54:35
that for the simple fact that they the the the parents both held down jobs okay they they were listed they were said to
00:54:44
be hardworking family oriented people but everybody also said the people that knew them closely they said they were
00:54:50
hardworking people family oriented people but they liked the party a little bit and they like to cut loose a little
00:54:56
bit but like I said according cut loose on a Sunday night before work on Monday I do when there's uh no I do when
00:55:03
there's NFL football on but uh yeah that's called drinking some beers uh you know that's not called uh
00:55:09
methamphetamine right but the thing here is like like I said they they did not find any uh proof that there was a
00:55:18
manufacturing going on the house that they were storing drugs selling drugs and furthermore like I stated they
00:55:24
didn't that they even found any drugs at all it actually looks like they did not
00:55:28
find any drugs in the possession of the home because they took them all and on top of that here here's here's where I
00:55:35
really side with them okay is that they loaned a friend $2,000 and what I mean by that is I
00:55:44
think that people that have drug problems probably have money problems and they're not really in a position to
00:55:51
be loaning out money to to friends and family this okay sure so I mean you look at every rock star that has a bunch of
00:56:00
money they they didn't have this family did not have a bunch of M right but what
00:56:04
I'm stating is your your your thought process is well because they had $2,000 to loan out that they didn't have a drug
00:56:11
problem that is what I just said said yes right and what I'm saying that would be like saying well like Ray Charles he
00:56:17
didn't have a heroin problem cuz he didn't have a money problem no he had a heroin problem I that's all I'm saying I
00:56:23
think I see what you're saying but I think we should agree that Ray Charles was in a much different situation than
00:56:29
Brenda grony and Mark McKenzie right I understand that but what what I'm stating is to me uh the type of drug
00:56:37
they're using to me is a sign of that that's something that's a serious recreational drug M so so the the
00:56:46
sheriff's department stating that this one member stating that he would have expected this to be the result of of
00:56:54
money drugs or love and he also stated that you know they they looked into that drug angle and they didn't believe that
00:57:03
was the cause of this crime they also looked into the love angle as well and this turned up
00:57:09
nothing and they you know the money and the drug issues all kind of the same thing there so they're going nowhere
00:57:16
with this this is like they had said there this is a crime for which there was no profile for now in 2005 father
00:57:24
Father's Day fell on Sunday June 19th and on Father's Day Steven grony told reporters it was his Father's Day
00:57:33
wish that his two children Shasta and Dylan would safely return home but of course he had prepared himself for the
00:57:43
worse he also told them that he was losing hope as well stating that he was very optimistic the first couple of
00:57:52
weeks that they were missing and he thought that the kids would be home soon but as the weeks strug on he was no
00:58:00
longer optimistic yeah and I couldn't imagine uh what a parent or family member would be going through at that
00:58:08
moment you know as the days drag on they'd probably have to feel like the longest days in the world well a couple
00:58:15
of weeks after Father's Day this would bring us to July 2nd 2005 now um at 1:40 a.m. we have two guys that are outside
00:58:26
of a 24-hour Denny's restaurant they're outside smoking cigarettes when they see
00:58:32
I love me some Denny's though when they see a red Jeep Cherokee uh this has Missouri license plates on it okay the
00:58:40
vehicle pulls into the parking lot and out jumps a middle-aged man and a little girl the guys smoking quickly recognized
00:58:49
the little girl to be Shasta the one that they had seen on billboards and missing Flyers
00:58:55
uh all over all over the area right uh one of the guys he text his girlfriend uh the girlfriend is sitting inside
00:59:03
she's you know inside eating as he's outside smoking a cigarette he text her to fill her in on what's going on you
00:59:11
know I'm I'm seeing this guy and I'm seeing this girl that's she looks exactly like Shasta um here's what I'm
00:59:18
going to do I'm going to call the police the the guys decide that the two of them
00:59:25
are not going to let this guy and girl leave the restaurant they're not going to tip them off that that they've
00:59:32
spotted them but they're not going to let them leave the restaurant until the police have a chance to speak with the
00:59:37
both of them I I guarantee you these these two gentlemen that were smoking they got the fight Jitters yeah you know
00:59:43
I mean like they're probably all like red up at this point like okay we just got to keep an eye on him without
00:59:49
tipping our hand but we can't let this individual get anywhere mhm and at the same time though they're a little
00:59:56
concerned that they might be uh mistaken because they don't see a little boy right in this situation it's just the
01:00:04
little girl in the in the strange man so they're going to contact the police but
01:00:09
kind of interesting twist here though is that uh the manager of the Denny's contacts the police as well yeah so the
01:00:16
way that this story works is this the man and the girl they go into the restaurant and now the restaurant has
01:00:22
some missing persons posters they're they're you know posted in the in the vestibule or near the entrance
01:00:29
right um shortly after the man walks in the the girl of the poster the poster of
01:00:36
the girl I'm sorry is is removed it it suddenly disappears uh from the wall why from maybe from the guy okay yeah he
01:00:45
take he takes down the poster okay so they are seated and the man orders drinks uh and meals for both him and the
01:00:54
girl the waitress then recognizes the girl to be Shasta as well she notifies her manager about the situation by now
01:01:03
we're at about 1:41 a.m. both the manager and as the captain had stated one of the guys outside smoking had
01:01:11
called 911 shortly after the call a police officer responding to the call pulls into the parking lot now they
01:01:21
suspect that this man must have seen the cop because he quickly asked the waitress for his bill he then got up and
01:01:29
he took the girl with him and he headed toward the restrooms now two more police
01:01:35
cars pulled into the parking lot during this time of course all three cars were they were quiet you know none of them
01:01:42
had their lights on or their sirens on as they did not want to alert the man that that uh you know that he and the
01:01:50
girl had been cited had been reported to authorities but he knows well when the man and the girl return to their Booth
01:01:58
where they were seated the man leaned over across the table to the little girl he whispers something to her um no one
01:02:07
really knows what what is said no one heard what the man said to her now by this time the officers are inside the
01:02:14
restaurant and they approached the man and they told him they would like to speak with him
01:02:21
outside now the the man he he goes with them without incident once outside he spoke with the officers briefly and then
01:02:30
they put him in the back of one of their cars now the little girl at this point once she's alone she looks at the
01:02:37
waitress and she tells her that her name is Shasta gron and that she she wants to
01:02:44
see her daddy even though the little girl appeared to be fine um she she didn't appear to have any you know noticeable
01:02:53
injury on her she appeared to be healthy um she was quickly taken to the an area
01:03:00
hospital as this is standard procedure um and she remained in the hospital for a couple of days now shasta's father
01:03:10
Steven groy uh he was notified and uh he W he had actually gone to Seattle uh on
01:03:18
a short trip to visit his sister uh shortly after arriving in Seattle he gets a phone call that they found his
01:03:26
daughter and so he's going to have to travel back from Seattle to to to celan now then now keep in mind here's the
01:03:32
strange thing here Captain this Denny's restaurant is is located near relatively near where the crime
01:03:40
scene took place where this girl was abducted from okay so the man who is apprehended uh he sat in jail and all
01:03:50
the while everyone is wondering what happened to Dylan yeah that's the question here I mean one
01:03:57
we need to figure out if they were you know were they witnesses to the murders mhm where there's more than one um
01:04:05
perpetrator perpetrator uh is there maybe a group of people working what is the motive uh what trauma has she gone
01:04:13
through where was she kept or where was she held during this time she was abducted like I said you know again
01:04:18
people assuming that they're on the Run uh I don't think is you know you should never assume but also where is Dylan and
01:04:26
who is this man that they have in custody and that's what we'll get into next episode yes we're going to have a
01:04:33
lot of answers for you more on this case more on this story tomorrow thanks to everybody for joining us in the garage
01:04:39
for another beer and until tomorrow if you need any True Crime garage go to True Crime
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garage.com and thank you Nick thank you Captain thank you no thank you everybody
01:04:51
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