00:00:04
Murray, a handsome native, and 12 years ago today, she disappeared just moments after a car crash on Route 112 in Hilt,
00:00:11
New Hampshire. Today in New Hampshire, they will remember Mara and keep her name in the light.
00:00:28
>> Sorry, you guys. I don't know what I could have done. I was out of bed here. The reason I had to listen to other
00:00:39
people. >> Brian Schaefer was last seen at the Ugly Tuna Saloona Bar near Ohio State
00:00:48
University campus between 1:30 and 2:00 a.m. on April 1st, 2006. Amy Mahelvic went missing October 27th,
00:01:03
1989 in Bay Village, Ohio. She was lured by what she thought was a family friend
00:01:08
to a shopping plaza. She >> wasn't the devil. Who was the devil? I I I I Walsh. The mutilated body of a boy is
00:01:46
discovered. Men looking for deer spotted garbage bags near a wooded area on the side of a
00:01:54
country road. One of the men told police, "I thought I saw an elbow sticking out of the bag,
00:02:06
but it turned out to be a leg." Police said the boy's arms had been cut off at the shoulder.
00:02:15
and his torso had been mutilated with a knife. February, >> a woman driving on Highway 98 pulls into
00:02:26
a convenience store parking lot. She parks next to a cargo van and she goes into the store. When she returns to her
00:02:34
vehicle, the van is gone. She notices something in the empty space next to her. It appears to be a Polaroid picture.
00:02:50
>> The West Memphis tree. Damian Heckles. Jason Baldwin. >> Jesse Viskeelli. >> The West Memphis 3.
00:03:02
Damian Heckles. Jason Baldwin. >> Jesse Ms. Kelly. Heat. Heat. Welcome to True Crime Garage. Wherever
00:03:43
you are, whatever you are doing, thanks for listening. I'm your host, Nick, and with me as always is a man that is not
00:03:48
only celebrating the garage's 100th episode, but also his birthday as well. We have been in the trenches together
00:03:55
for 100 shows. He is the big bad captain of our flying garage ship. Ladies and gentlemen, Captain Fat Hands. It's good
00:04:03
to be seen and it's good to see you. Happy birthday to everybody. Happy birthday. Oh, happy birthday to me.
00:04:13
Tonight, Captain, we are drinking birthday cake dunle. I think I just took a dunle in my pants by the fine people
00:04:20
at the Jackaloupe Micro Brewing Company. Garage grade four out of five bottle caps. Get yourself some birthday cake
00:04:26
dunle captain. >> Treat yourself. >> It's sweet, light, creamy, and delicious. And it was brought to us by
00:04:32
these awesome garage guys and girls. First up in Strafordshire, United Kingdom, we have Ross. We were on a
00:04:39
break. Also in the UK, we have Anna. Next up, let's go out to the West Coast is the best coast and give a big thanks
00:04:46
and big shout out to Steve from San Francisco. >> Yo, Steve, >> put some flowers in your hair, Captain.
00:04:53
>> What's that mean? >> Also in California, thanks to Cindle in North Hollywood. uh name was Cinda from
00:05:00
Bonnie and Sabrina. A big we like your jib. >> Bonnie and Sabrina are in Austin, Texas.
00:05:06
Also in the great city of Austin, we have John and Jess. And they say they love to listen to the show while having
00:05:12
a cold one or six. >> Uh just have a cold one. That's one cold one. >> And last but not least in the big
00:05:19
Buckeye State, we have Justin from Akran. Justin is a diehard true crime guy and he says the garage is the best.
00:05:26
So, thanks to everybody for pitching in on this week's beer fund. And if you want to buy us a round for next week's
00:05:32
show, go to true crimegar.com and click on the donate button. >> And thanks so much to you guys. Happy
00:05:39
100th episode. >> Who would have ever thought we'd have made it this far. >> Maybe maybe we didn't make it this far.
00:05:46
>> Maybe it's all one big mistake. >> All right. Well, thanks for believing in us. Thanks for letting us uh spend some
00:05:52
time with you every week. And uh that's it. >> Yeah. So, everybody, >> we quit. >> Gather around. Make sure you get a piece
00:05:58
of cake. >> We quit. >> Grab a beer. Grab a chair. >> No, we're quitting. >> All right.
00:06:02
>> Why are we Why are we grabbing anything? I'm going to grab this chair and get the
00:06:07
hell out of here. >> A [ __ ] I can't quit. I can't quit you guys. I can't quit you.
00:06:15
>> Every time I think I'm out, they pull me back in. >> All right, grab a chair.
00:06:20
>> Grab some cake. Grab some beer. >> Grab your junk. Let's talk some true crime.
00:06:36
>> All right, welcome everybody to the party. >> Yeah, we uh wanted to take a just an
00:06:42
episode and kind of reflect on our show as a whole. We've done 100 of them now, which
00:06:47
>> I think it's really important to pat yourself on the back. >> Yeah. Once in a while.
00:06:52
>> Yeah. every now and then. And plus, we just, you know, a big question that people ask often is, well, well, some I
00:07:00
think the speculation is that that, oh, you get to talk about true crime every week. That must be amazing. It is some
00:07:07
weeks. It is some weeks. Most weeks, I would say, but the thing here is uh one thing I think that people don't get is
00:07:14
that we kind of get eyeballs deep in a new case every week. So, we have about 3 or 4 days to really dive into something
00:07:20
and then as fascinated as we get with some of these cases, we have to move on with our time because we're back here
00:07:27
next week putting out new shows, >> right? More content. >> So, let's take this episode, Captain,
00:07:32
and let's both review what we believe to be our top 10 unsolved cases that we have covered on this show so far. It's a
00:07:40
good chance to kind of reflect on things that we've done and if anybody is late to the party, they can get caught up and
00:07:46
check out some of the old cases that we have covered, ones that are near and dear to our hearts.
00:07:51
>> So, the trailer that you heard earlier was this kind of compilation of all those different cases.
00:07:55
>> Mhm. So, without further ado, Captain, let's count backwards from 10 down to one, and we'll review our top 10
00:08:02
unsolved cases of true crime garage history thus far. >> Is this some kind of weird sobriety
00:08:08
test? So, first up on my list, Captain, I have at number 10, the very strange disappearance of UMass College student
00:08:16
Mara Murray, >> uh, who disappeared in February of 2004. She was 21 years old. This case is over
00:08:22
13 years old now. And it's a very popular case, uh, to say the least. It's been covered by most of the big mystery
00:08:30
type TV shows. Uh it's really and you know and I hate saying this because it's somebody's life that we're talking
00:08:36
about, but it's very much a movie like disappearance in my mind, right? >> Uh you know, when you first look at it,
00:08:44
it's as simple as she leaves her dorm room, she's driving out in the middle of White Hills, New Hampshire, which is
00:08:50
basically the middle of nowhere. Uh she gets in a car accident and then she disappears. And on the surface, that is
00:08:57
what this case looks like. But then when you start peeling back and peeling off the layers, we learn that Mara's
00:09:04
movements are pretty strange before her disappearance. Things also don't seem to
00:09:10
be so bright and shiny with her boyfriend, Billy. Um, we covered this in episodes 29 and 30. Plus, we did we
00:09:17
quite a bit more information on this case in our True Crime Addict uh show, which we did uh episode 31.
00:09:25
>> Yeah. With James Rener. And the the very interesting thing with this case is that
00:09:29
strong opinions. >> Yeah. >> You know what? If you believe this, it's almost like you're on a football team.
00:09:36
You know, like that you believe in the Patriots. And if you believe in the Patriots, then then we can't be friends.
00:09:43
And somebody that, you know, I respect as a interesting author, James Rener, gets a lot of flack for his ideas. I
00:09:51
personally do not agree with his ideas on this case, but but you know, people like they like to shine some hate on
00:09:58
people, >> right, >> based off this case. It's a very interesting case and a very interesting
00:10:03
community around the case. The great thing about this case is that there's so many different theories out there. But
00:10:09
that can be the bad thing, too, because not everybody likes to, you know, when when people sit around and they share
00:10:14
their theories about this case, it's like you said, people have gotten so involved in this thing
00:10:19
>> that they get very opinionated. And when you discuss theories, they're they're
00:10:24
rather trying to convince you than to just join in the conversation. And and me personally, I like to sit down and
00:10:31
hear anybody's theories, and I don't really need them to carry much weight at all. When you have a disappearance as
00:10:37
strange as this, >> I think any theory is worth listening to. And the thing here with her case,
00:10:42
it's it's such a fascinating case because, you know, before she once we learn about her movements, then you
00:10:50
create all these other questions. You know, was this was this a suicide? Was this a a purposeful disappearance? Did
00:10:58
somebody abduct her? Um, you know, the list goes on and on. And to be frank, you know, we know she leaves her dorm
00:11:04
room. We're not even really certain where she was going that night before she disappeared. Yeah. This is a case
00:11:10
that to this day, if somebody sends me a text saying that, you know, here's a new
00:11:15
article about it or here's a new episode of a podcast about Mara Murray's disappearance, I will check it out
00:11:22
probably that day. >> Mhm. So big uh big interest in this case. All right, for my number 10, uh I
00:11:30
have Joey Lee. >> Joey Lee was a kid that went missing and I say kid. >> He was in his 20s,
00:11:37
>> right? And he was >> a young man >> out at a local bar in Columbus, a bar that I've gone to several times called
00:11:42
the Union. Uh he went missing. His body would later be discovered in the Sciota River
00:11:50
>> and uh there was no punctures or anything. and there was no wounds. So, how he actually died, there was an
00:11:57
autopsy done and there's still the investigation is still going on. But, uh, his father actually reached out to
00:12:03
us because we did a, you know, covered his case. >> Uh, Joseph and, um, that just meant a
00:12:11
lot because it meant to me it felt like I was doing something with a purpose. >> Yeah.
00:12:18
And it's also really brings makes us aware of the rest of the world around us. You know, we talk about these
00:12:25
different cases and there are loved ones out there that are that still need answers.
00:12:31
>> You know, they they they absolutely need these answers. >> And the thing is, you know, once in a it
00:12:37
doesn't happen often, but once in a while we will get contacted by a family member that stumbled across our show.
00:12:43
And and I I have to believe that sometimes these people that that you know these victims and their families,
00:12:50
you know, that the there's a big loss in their heart. And I think that sometimes
00:12:55
they wake up some mornings and they may just Google their lost loved ones name and see what comes up. And you know, we
00:13:02
may happen to come up in that search. And you know, it it it really meant a lot that he uh that that his father
00:13:10
reached out to us and kind of gave us a a little bit of a thank you uh for for covering the case. It was a case that
00:13:17
didn't get a whole lot of media attention outside of uh Franklin County, outside of Columbus. Um, it's
00:13:24
>> well and and let's be honest. I mean, normally you have we we have the white girl syndrome, you know, and kind of
00:13:31
like with Mara Murray's case, well, maybe one of the reasons why it's so big and in this case, Joey is he is a white
00:13:38
male, >> but he's homosexual >> and those cases don't get covered as often. >> And the thing too, you know, he was
00:13:45
somewhat a friend of a friend of ours. We didn't know Joey. Uh, we didn't have the privilege of knowing him. Um, but
00:13:51
uh, you know, somebody that is close to us worked with Joey and had nothing but really great things to say about him.
00:13:57
You know, I believe we even talked about it in the episode. You know, when you hear that somebody has disappeared or
00:14:02
something terrible has happened to somebody, you kind of wonder what circles this person may be running in.
00:14:08
And that certainly wasn't the case with Joey Le. He was he was absolutely a victim. Uh, somebody somebody took
00:14:15
advantage of a situation and and ended his life. And you know, we are here in Columbus. This is a story that we're not
00:14:22
going to let go away. And and hopefully the local media stays on top of it as well.
00:14:28
>> Well, and then back to it, you know, the idea that, you know, we spend a lot of
00:14:31
time and energy and effort and and yeah, there's part of the show that is a show.
00:14:38
we kind of have these roles that we play uh you know or kind of not roles that we
00:14:44
play but kind of things that just kind of happen naturally you know I'm the guy that interrupts with some sometimes some
00:14:52
dumbass comments but it's to lighten the mood to you know so when we're dealing with this heavy stuff or whatever but
00:15:00
you put all this time and effort in and sometimes 12-hour days sometimes 15 hour
00:15:04
days and to actually feel like you're doing something that maybe makes difference, you know, it means a lot.
00:15:11
>> Number nine on the Nick list, we have photograph uh episode 37. This is about
00:15:16
the very strange Polaroid photograph that was found in a parking lot in Port St. Joe, Florida back in June of 1989.
00:15:25
A very strange case. Uh the this woman woman finds a photograph of what appears to be a teenage girl and a younger boy
00:15:33
bound and tied up and they look very afraid. The crazy thing is we don't there's nothing more to this photo than
00:15:43
just what you see in the image. And it's a it's a haunting image as well as one that you when you do see it, you will
00:15:50
stare at it and you will try to pick up on little clues trying to identify these
00:15:54
people. Are they actual victims? Are they being held hostage? And for what purpose?
00:15:58
>> Is it a hoax? >> Mhm. >> Right. And I think there's a lot of questions to this one. One, is there a
00:16:03
victim? And and and if there is a victim, then who is the victim? >> And one thing that was pretty neat after
00:16:09
we covered it, you know, we posted the picture and a lot of the listeners checked out the picture, some people
00:16:13
seeing it for the very first time. And some people contacted us with little, you know, little things that they
00:16:19
noticed in the picture that we had not had not noticed and and reported on the show.
00:16:24
>> Yeah. And a lot of dissecting of the t-shirt that the girl wore. >> Yeah. trying to pick up pick up any type
00:16:29
of identifier regarding these these kids and where they may be located, where they may be from.
00:16:35
>> All right, my number nine would be Matrice Richardson. That would be episode 75 and 76. So, when we start
00:16:43
doing the two-parters, >> I think this is a case that could definitely be solved. And I think um
00:16:48
there's a lot of law enforcement involvement and a lot of law enforcement covering up in this case. And I think
00:16:56
with her, you know, strong family uh pushing to the forefront and maybe more people covering this case, I I think
00:17:04
this one is something that could actually be solved and maybe in the next year or so, maybe we'll get an update on
00:17:10
this case. >> Yeah, I I applaud her mother and father for keeping this case active. I think
00:17:15
you and I might have disagreed a little bit on this case. It's extremely fascinating. I have no clue how she
00:17:21
ended up where she did. >> Yeah. Simply this girl goes out to dinner >> Mhm. by herself. They arrest her cuz
00:17:27
she's not going to pay a bill. When they take her into the station, they eventually let her go and uh then she
00:17:34
kind of goes wandering and she's never heard from again. The problem with this is that the mother came out and said,
00:17:40
"Hey, don't let her go, >> right?" >> You know, they were in contact with her family members. So, it just seems like,
00:17:46
you know, law enforcement dropped the ball. >> They they said they wouldn't let her go,
00:17:49
too. >> Yeah. And it does seem like this. This one is very frustrating. And I think it
00:17:55
would be covered a lot more often. I mean, let's just say it's a it's a black victim. I think because she's a black
00:18:01
victim, the case isn't as covered as often as it should be. And the thing, Captain, you and I, we always have law
00:18:08
enforcement's back. We We are, you know, big on backing the people that keep us safe. The thing here is though where I
00:18:16
think we disagreed, you you kind of lean towards the side of some maybe police involvement in her death or
00:18:22
disappearance where I I certainly my thoughts were that that they're just not doing the work that they should do. Uh I
00:18:31
don't know that there's that they're involved in the death. They could be. There's evidence to point to that, but
00:18:36
they certainly aren't I I don't see the effort being made to solve this case, which angers me. Number eight on my
00:18:42
list, I have Tony Muny. Uh his his fulllength name is John Anthony Muny. Uh he was last seen October 15th, 1983.
00:18:52
His body was found shortly after that dismembered out on a country road. Now, this is a case that most people wouldn't
00:18:58
be very familiar with. It's uh not something you can find on the internet very well. Um it was our bonus episode
00:19:05
that we covered. Uh but this case is one that is always in the back of my mind. Um, this is I've been to the location
00:19:12
where the body was found. I've studied maps of of the way that the roads were at the time. Um, he has these files on
00:19:20
it that are super thick. >> This this is a case that to me uh should have been solved there. There certainly
00:19:27
were some good suspects. >> Uh, the crazy thing here is, you know, we have this disappearance and then the
00:19:33
the murder of this boy. And it turns out that we learned that there's some pretty
00:19:38
bad dudes in the area at the time and we covered them in this case. You know, one
00:19:43
one of them, I won't go into all of it because we have just a limited amount of time here today, but one in particular,
00:19:49
we have Timothy Hall, um, who was sentenced to 15 years to life in prison for the murder of an elderly man. And,
00:19:57
uh, this guy is a guy that I kind of keep tabs on because every couple years he comes up for parole. Um, now I'm very
00:20:04
happy to report that at the last parole hearing, uh, that the people, this is what they, this is what they said about
00:20:10
Timothy Hall when they denied him parole. They said that he is the worst of the worst. And he poses a deadly
00:20:18
combination and he possesses a deadly combination of pure evil and insanity. Now, this guy
00:20:25
will be up for parole again in August of 2018. Um, I'm hoping that he is somebody
00:20:31
that they keep behind bars for a very long time because he's an extremely dangerous person. Certainly capable of
00:20:37
having killed Tony Muny. Uh, remember he was the one he became under suspicion because he was the one that was seen in
00:20:44
his cell talking to a person that wasn't there and and calling him John. And it's
00:20:51
it's thought that he was speaking to the ghost of of Tony Muny, his murder victim.
00:20:56
>> Well, and this is one we spent a lot of extra time on. I mean, one all the research that you did for it and then,
00:21:02
>> you know, this was probably an hour and 40 minute episode. This before we're doing any two-parter type things and um
00:21:10
yeah, and then there's multiple trailers in it. It's it's pretty interesting. It's definitely something I'm proud that
00:21:16
we produced. >> It's one of my favorite episodes. >> Number eight for me would be Johnny
00:21:20
Gosh. So, uh I think I feel like a social justice warrior, which I'm not. I'm not. And I I'm not a big fan of
00:21:30
social justice warriors, you know, just saying uh the politically correct thing or or whatever. But the thing that I was
00:21:37
thinking about the Johnny Gosh case is one, I was a paper boy, >> so I have a connection there. You know,
00:21:43
a kid goes out on his paper route, goes missing. There's possibly, you know, uh a sex trafficking ring that's involved.
00:21:53
And but what what I love about this case was his mother, you know, that there's there's a there's a documentary on this
00:21:59
and his mother is really interesting to me and I think she's a different breed. And I think a lot of people didn't cover
00:22:06
this case or not even cover the case, but I think a lot of people start saying, well, yeah, she's a different
00:22:13
breed and she's a very strong female, >> right? >> And therefore people call her crazy. M
00:22:20
>> and I think and I think that's that's the thing that drives me nuts about that's what I I sound like a social
00:22:27
justice warrior is what I sound like. But I think if it was a father doing it, >> it wouldn't have happened that way,
00:22:33
right? >> It wouldn't have been, "Oh, well, this guy's crazy." I think she was uncovering
00:22:38
stuff that people just don't want to hear about. And when they don't want to hear about something like that, they
00:22:43
start using the stupid word conspiracy. >> Oh, well, this is just a conspiracy. She's just a whackadoo. She's not a
00:22:49
wackadoo. She's a strong female that, you know, her son went missing and she's going to fight until her death to try to
00:22:58
figure out what happened. >> Yeah, you you're exactly right. Yeah, some of the things she's done and said
00:23:02
are a little out there to me, but at the same time, you got to keep in mind this
00:23:05
is a person that has dealt with a traumatic thing in her life that none of us can comprehend. The thing that I love
00:23:12
though is that she, like you said, she's going to she's going to fight to the end
00:23:16
to get this thing solved to to try to figure out what happened to young Johnny Gosh,
00:23:21
>> right? And like I said, at the end of the day, if it was the father champion for, you know, the to find out what
00:23:27
happened to his son, people wouldn't be calling him crazy. >> Number seven on my list, I have April
00:23:33
Tinsley. This was way back in episode seven, Captain. Seems like uh quite some time ago.
00:23:40
I'd say it seems like yesterday, but no, it's it feels like it feels like we've been doing this show for 10 years.
00:23:46
>> Yeah. Th this was the young girl that was abducted near her home in Fort Wayne, Indiana. Um and her body was
00:23:54
found on April 1st, 1988. >> Uh you know, just a strange coincidence there. Her name is April. She's found on
00:24:02
the first day of April. Has always been very eerie to me. This is this too is one of those cases that outside of the
00:24:09
lines of Indiana, not a whole lot of people know about this case. And it's it's a terrifyingly fascinating case
00:24:15
because we have we have a killer uh of the worst kind who has gone on to taunt the the neighborhood and taunt the the
00:24:26
public in the um and further terrify the public by leaving notes and threatening
00:24:32
letters and claiming responsibility for the death of April Tinsley. >> Uh this is a case that's always
00:24:38
fascinated me. The thing here too is we got DNA on this guy, >> right? >> Um, so it's a very solvable case. It's
00:24:47
just a matter of finding the right match. >> Well, I think anytime that, you know, a
00:24:51
killer taunts, you know, the the public, it's like what better case to have solved to say, "Hey, we got you."
00:24:59
>> Yeah. >> You know, uh, this one I also think we missed a couple things in this episode.
00:25:04
Well, we were unaware of uh there was some detail about her shoe um that that he had he had taken some of the shoes
00:25:12
and left them elsewhere and to further back up that he was the killer that left those notes, he he kind of reminded them
00:25:19
about the shoes, something that only the killer would know. This guy though, man,
00:25:23
you know, he leaves her body way back in 1988, and then he goes on to leave a note on a barn in 1990, and then in
00:25:30
2004, he's leaving notes in mailboxes of of homes of little girls and leaving a note on the bicycle of a little girl in
00:25:39
the area. This is a This is a very scary person. >> Mhm. So, April Tinsley, that is your
00:25:45
number >> number seven. And that was way back in episode seven. >> Yeah. Coincidence. Number seven for me
00:25:52
will be Kurt Cobain. Uh this was an episode that I was really excited about doing. Um if you go back and listen to
00:26:00
the trailer, I actually uh adapted uh Smells Like Teen Spirit and kind of twisted that around. So if anybody's
00:26:08
interested in that, you can kind of hear the melody kind of faint in there or the
00:26:12
idea of that tune faint in there. Uh inspired by watching Soaked in Bleach. I I thought that was a really fun
00:26:19
documentary. Um, and I was never a huge Nirvana fan. Um, but you know, he became
00:26:27
such an icon. I thought, well, this will be an interesting case. It's fascinating
00:26:32
enough though, it's a case that I feel like we dropped the ball on. >> You know what I mean? Like when when I
00:26:38
look back, you know, I wouldn't tell some if somebody said, "Oh, well, this Kurt Cobain case, should I check that
00:26:43
out?" Nah. Yeah, because I think I think when we went into it, I think one I think your mind was made up on it on
00:26:51
what happened. >> Yeah. >> Or or what the evidence kind of points to. And I just feel like there was this
00:26:56
whole conspiracy side of things. It's not a conspiracy. I mean, here here at the end of the day, this this lady,
00:27:04
this, you know, Courtney Love, she had a lot to, you know, gain >> or to lose if they were to get divorced,
00:27:12
>> right? So anyways, I think there's a lot more to the story. And it's not that it
00:27:18
was like bad than I thought it was like just a garbage episode or anything. It was just it was just the one ones at the
00:27:25
end of the day when we put it out it was like, "Ah, this would be good." And then
00:27:29
a couple weeks later it was like, "Yeah, we could have done a little bit better on that."
00:27:32
>> And I didn't mean to disappoint you, Captain. I I you know, I do think it was
00:27:36
a suicide at the end of the day. However, you know, there's millions of people out there that are saying this
00:27:41
was a murder and and and I'm not going to lie, there were plenty of questionable things out there and there
00:27:47
is some evidence pointing the other direction than what I was thinking. >> Yeah. And I just I think that's the
00:27:53
thing is I think when you have evidence leaning either way, we should I just think we could have done a better job of
00:28:00
presenting the other side of things. >> Number six, I have the Austin yogurt shop murders. uh four teenage girls
00:28:09
killed, all shot. Um two of them were 17, one was 15, one 13. Uh two of them were shop workers. Uh this case is is
00:28:19
extremely intriguing to me. Um I I think that there's there's a lot here. This is
00:28:25
a very famous case in Texas. We covered it in episodes 81 and 82. um discussing some of the serial killers that were in
00:28:34
the area at the time that have fallen to become suspects in this case. >> Um I think you know we also talked about
00:28:42
the the uh four teenage boys that were brought up on charges and the strange confessions that that were that took
00:28:52
place. Um >> yeah, very similar to like a West Memphis 3 type thing. Yeah, these were
00:28:57
very aggressive interrogators uh come up with confessions. Two of the guys end up
00:29:03
getting convicted and then those convictions later get overturned. >> Uh this is an extremely intriguing case.
00:29:09
One that I do think can be solved. The the problem is the evidence because the fire was set. Um but we still have that
00:29:18
question of there were a couple people that went into that shop that night that have not been accounted for. I think
00:29:23
that's where you're going to find your answers. Number six for me will be Emma Filipof. This is a girl that went
00:29:30
missing in Canada. That was episodes 52 and 53. Uh, as we're making the this list, I I find that um missing person
00:29:39
cases really >> seem to be your thing. Yeah, I think it's just the, you know, if somebody,
00:29:45
you know, it's sad if somebody gets murdered, right, and they get taken off this earth, but at least we know that
00:29:51
and we, at least we know that their life ended, there's a start and there was an
00:29:58
end. And I think the fact that somebody just disappeared off the face of this earth, uh, I think that brings up so
00:30:06
much questions. And then you know when I after my divorce um I I dated this very
00:30:13
well not I can't even say it was dates but it's a very similar situation where I start hanging out with somebody that's
00:30:20
very artsy very unique >> and you become kind of infatuated and Emma had a you know people call him a
00:30:30
stalker >> but a guy that was pretty infatuated with her. So, just the whole story uh
00:30:36
seemed a little familiar, but I'm rambling. So, let's get to this right after the beer break.
00:30:54
Do you think that the disappeared cases tap on your brain a little more than the
00:30:58
others because there's so many questions about them? Or is it because there's still that that small hope of of
00:31:06
something good happening at the end that there there could be a positive outcome
00:31:10
that the the person could be found and is happy somewhere. >> I think part of that, but I think it's
00:31:16
just the whatif game. >> I think my my brain likes to play that game. >> All right, number five. I have Brandon
00:31:22
Lawson. uh episodes 8586. Um this is the Why is this one going to be on my list? Well, it's the 911 call.
00:31:32
>> It absolutely is the 911 call. Um this this young man leaves his home uh just
00:31:38
before midnight back in 2013. He calls 911 in a very very strange call. It's it's hard to understand what he's
00:31:47
saying. He sounds he sounds scared. Um I'm not going to lie to you, Captain. the hearing the 911 call frightens me.
00:31:56
Um, and also trying to decipher what he's saying is really the big mystery because I think every one of us when
00:32:04
when it first hits our ears when we first hear it that we all think, you know what, I'm going to be able to pick
00:32:09
up on something that somebody else didn't hear and I'm going to know what happened to Brandon. Now, you know, now
00:32:14
Brandon was kind of this he he was kind of he comes I don't know him, but he looks to me like kind of a tough guy,
00:32:21
you know, kind of somebody that could handle himself that wouldn't be easily frightened.
00:32:26
>> Um, and he saw something out there in the dark that night >> that sounds to me like it terrified him.
00:32:33
And to this day, we don't know where Brandon is. We can't find his cell phone. There's been no activity on his
00:32:38
bank accounts. It's it's one of those cases that's haunting. Well, and the fact of the matter is that we have
00:32:45
evidence that he called after he left the scene. >> Mhm. >> And that's another wrinkle in the
00:32:51
mystery. Number five for me is Adam Walsh, which technically this is noted as a solved case. Just like with the
00:32:59
Kurt Cobain, that is marked down as a suicide. >> In your defense, u just like the Kurt
00:33:04
Cobain case, I think there's millions of people out there that would argue that it's not solved. So that that's that's
00:33:11
getting your back right there. >> Right. So Adam Walsh, we we know John Walsh from America's Most Wanted. It was
00:33:17
his son. He was at, you know, going to play. It was just that case to me was very nostalgic thinking about like the
00:33:24
Ataris and stuff and and being about the same age, you know, roughly around that
00:33:29
time period and just growing up in the 80s. So a little nostalgia there. But for me, um, the interesting thing was,
00:33:38
you know, when we started this thing in the garage, you know, we always talked about true crime, but it was always,
00:33:45
well, you're the true crime guy. You know, this is I I enjoy talking and I can write music and I can I can record
00:33:52
it and I can produce the show, but, you know, you got to take the lead as far as
00:33:58
the the research and stuff goes. But I would always dive into the cases. I always helped direct the shows, but this
00:34:04
one I I remember telling you, "Hey, this this Jeffrey Dmer thing has some weight
00:34:09
to it." >> Mhm. >> And I remember at first you going, "No, probably won't talk about it much." And
00:34:16
I remember thinking, "Well, I I think there's some more here." So, I dove into it. And and this is what really kind of
00:34:24
sunk the teeth in for me on this case. It's claimed to be solved. It's claim that he was murdered by Otis
00:34:33
>> Tul >> is also we got a lot of hate mail because people go it's Otis you stupid.
00:34:39
>> It depends on who you talk to. >> It's Otis. If the if if the family members of the dead kid says it's Otis
00:34:47
Tool. Yeah, call him Otis Tool. >> Mhm. >> Dummy. Um that's how it works. So, but I
00:34:54
think for the for me it was the it was the eyewitnesses at the mall 10 years later
00:35:00
seeing Jeffrey Dmer being arrested in in Milwaukee, Milwaukee. >> And they're they're 100% sure
00:35:10
>> that they saw him at the >> at the mall that day the day that he went missing. And I think there is
00:35:15
really something to that. And then also just a fascination with somebody like Jeffrey Dmer kind of ties that in. And I
00:35:22
think and then there's there's this this whole other speculation that Adam Walsh
00:35:29
is not dead. >> Yeah. That that that has come about quite a bit. >> Yeah. So it's definitely a case for me
00:35:35
early on, you know, that has fascinated me. >> Well, and I'll tell you what, I remember
00:35:40
watching the made for TV movie um way back when, you know, I was very very little when that came out. Uh, but I
00:35:47
remember watching it and being so young, you know, maybe my parents shouldn't have been letting me watch something
00:35:52
like that, but >> horrible parents. >> I remember being so young and it being so crazy that I didn't believe it was
00:36:00
real. I just thought it was a movie. You know what I mean? and I saw it on TV. And then the the terrifying thing for me
00:36:05
is fast forward 10, 12 years later and I'm reading about true crime all the time and I stumble upon this case and I
00:36:11
realize that movie that scared me enough when I was a little kid that I remembered parts of it uh still as a
00:36:18
teenager, >> right? >> Realizing that it's oh my god, that's a that's a real case that really happened.
00:36:23
Those were true events. >> Number four for me, we already talked about Mara Murray.
00:36:28
>> Oh yeah. uh we started doing the show and uh I to be honest with you, I mean we've talked about this before. I
00:36:35
haven't listened to many true crime podcast. >> I was just like what you know here's the
00:36:41
thing. We both were podcast lovers. >> Yeah. >> Right. And you just are. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What's your favorite
00:36:48
right now? >> Um well, you're >> top three. >> I'm going to be laughed at. You really
00:36:53
want me to get laughed at? >> Yeah. It's better you than me. Well, we're two weeks away. Well, well, we're
00:36:59
one week away now from the NFL draft. So, Cleveland Browns Daily is my I'm still the idiot that's drinking the
00:37:07
Kool-Aid that thinks that someday something's going to happen with this team. They're not going to be a
00:37:11
laughingtock. So, around this time every year, I start listening to that. I love
00:37:15
True Murder. Everybody knows that. I love True Crime Garage. Um >> I I listen to my own show every day.
00:37:24
Um, >> you you know those guys in the garage are great. >> No, actually number three for me would
00:37:28
be maybe a little known podcast called Rippercast. Um, I've I've been intrigued by Jack the Ripper for many many years
00:37:36
and it's a it's a pretty random show because they don't have like a regular schedule. They just pop up an episode
00:37:41
every now and then. Uh, but they've been covering Jack the Ripper for years years. So those are my three. My top
00:37:49
three right now, uh, well, I listened to Missing Richard Simmons. I thought that
00:37:54
was pretty interesting. >> Yeah. >> Uh, I feel bad for that guy. Uh, I thought, uh, STON was pretty good. I
00:38:00
would have produced it better. >> I thought it was entertaining. >> It was very entertaining. I just think
00:38:04
they could have produced a little bit better. Uh, but I'm always listening to Joe Rogan or or Adam Corolla, but my my
00:38:11
new my new favorite one that just cracks the [ __ ] out of me. I mean, and I need
00:38:15
to stop listening to it cuz I'm I'm probably do his cadence, but congratulations by Crystalia.
00:38:21
>> Mhm. >> That [ __ ] is Essa good. >> Well, you know what, Captain? I knew that Mara Murray would be higher on your
00:38:28
list for you than it was for me. Not because I don't I don't find it, you know, to be an interesting case. I mean,
00:38:34
obviously, it's on my top 10 here, but for you, man, you were wrapped up in that thing for it felt like two months.
00:38:40
Like every time I showed up to the garage, he he was like, "Mar Murray and >> I mean I was calling people.
00:38:46
>> Listen what I just found out. I just talked to this person. They said this. I
00:38:49
just found this bit of information." And and every time we're getting in the garage, I'm going, "Yeah, but we're
00:38:54
working on this other case here, Captain. We We got to move on." >> Yeah. And when And I met a lot of people
00:38:59
in the true crime community through that. And like I said, there are some nut nut jobs that are connected to that
00:39:06
case, but you know, we we met, you know, when we first started doing the show, we
00:39:10
met our our good friend Aurelia, and she was the one that said, "Yeah, you guys you guys got to do social media." And I
00:39:16
was like, "What do you mean social media? We're we're not doing social now. Got to take a selfie every two seconds."
00:39:22
>> Number four for me, Captain uh Brian Schaefer. >> Uh you know, this case was what? This case had to be covered.
00:39:31
>> I'm just gonna jump to my three. >> Your gonna jump to your three. >> Yeah, my number three is Schaefer.
00:39:37
>> Oh, okay. Well, then let's just talk about it together. We uh the captain's weird about these list. He he will he
00:39:43
will view mine, but he never lets me see his list in advance. >> I'm changing I go.
00:39:49
>> He's making it up as he goes. No, but Brian Schaefer um and when I say it had
00:39:54
to be covered, we were just We live in Columbus. He went he disappeared from uh from the ugly tuna saloona in Columbus.
00:40:02
Uh it's it's become >> it's hard to know how famous this case is because we're in the heart of it all.
00:40:08
Um but the thing here was we we covered this just before the 10-year anniversary
00:40:13
of his disappearance. >> Well, it was one of the cases that really people started talking about our
00:40:18
podcast because we covered this case. And the thing is, you couldn't go, you know, it was every few months you'd be
00:40:24
somewhere and you would hear somebody go, "Hey, remember that guy that disappeared from the bar downtown? Uh,
00:40:30
whatever happened to that guy?" And it was it became one of these cases here where it's almost urban legend, you know
00:40:36
what I mean? It's it's the guy that disappeared from the bar downtown and at some point, unfortunately, people forget
00:40:42
the guy's name uh and forget what happened. you know, you could you could be in a bar talking to somebody and
00:40:48
they'd say, "Yeah, they found Brian Schaefer. He was so and so. He was at this place or that place."
00:40:54
>> And it was a case that locally has not gone away. It's um like I said, it's almost become some bit of a of an urban
00:41:03
legend. >> Well, and that's a popular area of campus. And the thing for me was, you
00:41:08
know, that whole area of campus changed. It used to be grungy and gritty and now
00:41:12
it's kind of a little more posh. But it started becoming posh when they put the ugly tuna in. But uh in the last couple
00:41:19
years, I've played down there a lot. So I go through the same garage that he drove to. I park in roughly the same
00:41:26
spot. I walk through the same doors. And it's something that I can't get off my mind.
00:41:32
>> And that's one thing that I don't think a lot of people get. when you've walked
00:41:35
the ground, when you've been to the location where somebody was had disappeared or where a body was found,
00:41:42
the case takes on a whole different angle for you, doesn't it? I mean, it it's once you when you can see the
00:41:48
place, when you can see the layout of things, you kind of understand or have a better understanding of what may have
00:41:54
happened. Um, you know, >> and what a lot of people don't know, we haven't, we didn't really talk about
00:41:59
this much, but, uh, we had a company from Australia come over. >> Uh, no roles for Sam is the name of the
00:42:06
company company, production company that they listened to our show. They believed
00:42:11
in us as individuals and talents and they came all the way from Australia and they we did some recording as if we were
00:42:20
shooting a documentary about the Brian Schaefer case. M >> uh then they took this material and
00:42:25
they've actually shopped us to different networks and stuff like that. So we met
00:42:29
a whole other team. That's why when you hear cheers mates >> Mhm. >> that's not us. That's because
00:42:37
>> we >> we became friends with a bunch of Aussies and uh >> and and we've done a lot of work with
00:42:42
them and and had these es and flows of the whole are you going to have a TV show or you not going to have a TV show?
00:42:48
>> We don't really care if we have a TV show. >> Yeah. We got podcast faces. >> Bri uh Brian Schaefer case was way back
00:42:56
in episode 16 and 17 if you if you haven't heard those. Uh you know the other crazy thing here is you know cuz
00:43:02
some people speculate that he that he took off on his own that he wanted to start a new life elsewhere and he chose
00:43:09
to disappear on April 1st, April Fool's Day. >> And that's what where you originally
00:43:14
thought. Yeah. >> You I mean like when we first started looking at you kept on saying to me,
00:43:18
"No, I I I think he wanted to leave." Yeah. >> And I I kept on saying that doesn't make
00:43:23
any sense, but you know, like I said, I played up there so much and I pulled this up. It was I don't I don't know if
00:43:31
this story is interesting to anybody, but I play at the World of Beer and I'd be in the corner,
00:43:36
>> which is right across the street or right across the walkway, >> just across the walkway. And this really
00:43:42
old security guard would come in and he'd order food from him >> and uh he kind of always look at me
00:43:48
like, "Yeah, you're doing it playing some." And so I pulled him aside one gig and I just I was looking around and I
00:43:55
was taking pictures and I think I was posting him on Instagram and stuff like that. I just asked him, I said, "Hey, uh
00:44:01
you know the guy that went missing?" He said, "Oh yeah, yeah." He said, "Uh, but
00:44:07
that's all Hollywood stuff." And I said, >> "Really?" I said, "Oh, what you what do
00:44:11
you mean?" And he said, "Well," he said, "Well, they they make it seem like he was Harry Houdini, you know,
00:44:17
>> right? Just disappeared in >> He just disappeared." And because the craziest thing about that that case is
00:44:22
that we got video footage of him going in the bar. >> Yes. >> And we have video footage of him of him
00:44:27
walking around talking to people, >> stumbling around, drunk, having a good time.
00:44:32
>> Right. The But the main exit was to go down escalator and we should have seen
00:44:36
him, >> right? Right. >> But if you study the film, there's no Brian Schaefer. And he was just saying
00:44:41
that Yeah. when they reported on it and when people talk about it, they always say, "Well, there was cameras
00:44:46
everywhere." >> Yeah. >> And he just said, "Look, those cameras didn't work." >> Yeah. And
00:44:50
>> and there and there was a bunch of blank spots and because the building was new
00:44:55
and he was just saying that that if if that guy wanted to leave, he could have left and nobody would see him. And
00:45:01
there's probably a bunch of people that left that bar that night that are not on
00:45:05
film. And the crazy thing too, you know, I I wasn't down there in 2006 when he disappeared, but I went down there many
00:45:12
years later, just happened to be there meeting people. Um, and remembered, oh yeah, this is where Brian Schaefer went
00:45:18
he had missing from. And looking around down there, the thing that shocked me because you're right, the the the TV
00:45:24
shows made such a big deal of not seeing him exit the bar. The story was always,
00:45:29
well, he walked into a bar and ne never was to be seen again, >> right? Uh, but the first thing I noticed
00:45:34
down there, now I don't know the workings of the building, but there's a lot more doors on that building than I
00:45:40
expected to see. Yeah. Uh, after having heard the report. >> Well, we know my number three.
00:45:45
>> Uh, number three for me is Amy Mahalavic. Um, the 10-year-old girl from Bay Village, Ohio, who disappeared in
00:45:52
October of 1989. Uh she was it's believed that she was lured to a shopping plaza by a person
00:45:59
who was pretending to be a friend of the family that she was receiving some strange phone calls leading up to her
00:46:05
disappearance. And unfortunately her uh murdered body was found in February of 1990 in Ashlin County, which is
00:46:14
>> quite a bit of a drive from Bay Village where she disappeared. For me, Captain, this is the reason why
00:46:21
this will always be a case that's with me is she was my age. Um, and this was really the first time I remember
00:46:30
watching some of the news footage when they were looking for her uh on TV. And it was kind of the the break of the age
00:46:40
of innocence for me as as a as a boy. um you know where where somebody you know a
00:46:46
girl my age in my home state nobody can find her and then when you find out months later that she's been
00:46:54
killed it was really kind of it was kind of an awakening for me that that these things do happen. They're not just in
00:47:02
movies and um you know I've been to I've been to where she >> pretty naive as a kid.
00:47:09
>> Yeah. But I mean keep >> I watched this movie and then I realized it was real.
00:47:12
>> Yeah. But then I saw this thing on the news and I realized it was real. >> Well, let me put it into better
00:47:18
perspective. I was trying not to date myself so much with the Adam Walsh thing, but I was probably five when I
00:47:23
saw that movie. Uh, >> this is not real. >> And as far as Amy Mahalovic goes, her
00:47:29
and I were the same age. I was 10 at the time when she went missing. I don't think that that's
00:47:33
>> I think it's no secret that we're bunch of old dudes. >> We're extremely old. I got my AARP card
00:47:40
on me right now. No. Uh but but to me, this case will always be with me. It will always be in my mind. Um I've seen
00:47:49
the picture of the person that they think was last seen with her, the drawing, the composite drawing.
00:47:54
>> Uh I'm one of those people that I think that I've, you know, out of the corner
00:47:58
of my eye sometimes I think that I saw the guy. Uh the crazy thing to me, Captain, and this is going to sound
00:48:04
absolutely crazy to everybody out there, but I've driven from the the plaza where
00:48:10
she was last seen to the area where she was found. >> Um it's supposed to be like a 50minute
00:48:17
drive. And I got to tell you, it felt like eternity driving that route. Uh the thing here is I think, you know, we've
00:48:25
seen some new evidence come out with this potential new evidence. I think this could be solved. Um, I I think that
00:48:33
think that I'm rambling right now. >> I'm a rambling guy. Rambling. Rambling. >> I've always thought and will always
00:48:45
think that somebody from the Ashlin area, Ashlin County, where the body was found. I think the person that was
00:48:53
responsible for this terrible murder lived in that area at the time. The drive to me just felt so long to have to
00:49:03
have a victim in the car with you that you would have to be heading to a point for a reason other than just to dump the
00:49:10
body, if that makes sense. >> Yeah. Here's here's some a little backstory. Here's a little uh behind the
00:49:17
scenes to Crime Gay Ranch. >> Uhhuh. uh probably a year before we actually started doing the podcast, I
00:49:24
remember you would you were telling me, "I'm going to drive to listen to this author speak."
00:49:29
>> Yeah. >> We've known each other forever, but it's just it's funny because you have and I
00:49:34
admire this about you, but you have all these hobbies where I've never had hobbies like
00:49:40
>> Well, you play a lot of music, >> right? But it's a job, you know what I mean? like I I normally just turn my
00:49:45
hobby into a job and then it's like okay well I play music >> and but you always have all these
00:49:50
interesting hobbies, you know, you always do a a bracket for the NCAA, you do fantasy football,
00:49:56
>> you have all this stuff and you're like, well, I'm you always were into true crime and you're like, well, I'm going
00:50:01
to go listen to this author talk. >> Yeah. >> Cut to a year later we're having that
00:50:04
author come in and to a studio for you to do do an interview with him. >> Yeah. And if I could give a personal
00:50:12
recommendation out there to our true crime fans listening, if you ever have the opportunity and it's actually it
00:50:18
happens all the time, you're just unaware of it because you don't search for these things. But these true crime
00:50:23
authors, they travel around and they give talks from time to time and you get an opportunity to meet them or to hear
00:50:29
their story. Uh it's it's a it's one thing that I've done for years. I do it a few times every year when one comes
00:50:35
around or or if I have to go up to Cleveland or Cincinnati to hear somebody, but it's incredibly
00:50:40
fascinating. I recommend if you have that opportunity to check something like that out.
00:50:44
>> Well, and and you you know, I heard the name James Rener because of the Mara Murray case.
00:50:50
>> Now, I don't agree with a lot of stuff that he says, >> but I do think he's a great author.
00:50:56
>> He's a great storyteller. And when people want to talk whether he's a journalist or whatever, I don't I don't
00:51:02
care. But at the end of the day, it's hard to write a book. At the end of the day, it's hard to spend a bunch of time
00:51:08
and energy looking into a cases. Yes, I understand that people put blinders on sometimes, but so we have him come to
00:51:17
this recording studio and we record a couple different interviews with this guy. Yeah.
00:51:22
>> It was kind of cool to go, okay, well, that's kind of cool. Nick gets to that'd
00:51:26
be like me meeting some famous jazz bass player. I'd be like geeking out. Um, so
00:51:32
I got to see James Rener and Nick just two true crime dorks just going at it, >> dorking it up.
00:51:38
>> Oh, I mean it was like God, I had to like put on some boots to way through all the dorky [ __ ] It was just But that
00:51:44
Amy and Mahalavik interview, I I left the room. >> Yeah. >> I was like on and all the Captain haters
00:51:51
at the time probably were like, "Yes, this is such a better episode." But I sat in the other room with a a producer
00:51:57
friend of mine and we turned the volume off and we didn't listen to the episode.
00:52:01
So when I get the files back and I actually created the episode, um, you know, I normally post the show and then
00:52:08
I listen back. So I was listening back and we started uh you guys were doing the interview with the Amy Mahalavic
00:52:15
case and uh it was just crazy cuz like about 5 minutes in I was like this [ __ ]
00:52:21
is fascinating. Well, I wouldn't claim to be an expert on on hardly anything at all, but but definitely not.
00:52:29
>> But one thing I would say, um, outside of the Bay Village law enforcement and
00:52:33
maybe some FBI agents, I I would argue that few people in the state of Ohio have spent more time researching the Amy
00:52:41
case than James and myself uh, separately, which what what was so great for me was getting the opportunity to
00:52:47
kind of discuss uh, his thoughts and my thoughts at the same time. The thing too
00:52:52
is, you know, I I really enjoy James Rener because of his work that he did with the Amy Mahalovic case. He was the
00:53:00
first person that started putting names and started coming up with suspect names. Nobody else had done that up
00:53:05
until that point. >> That son of a [ __ ] made in on this episode again. That's it's it's hard to listen to yourself.
00:53:13
And so anybody that you know these it's just it's frankly just ridiculously silly when people go you got a sexy
00:53:21
voice. >> Uh no no no no because when you hear back yourself it's like nails on a
00:53:28
chalkboard. >> Mhm. >> So maybe that's why it's one of my favorite episodes cuz I'm actually not
00:53:33
on the episode. >> That's episode 22 by the way. >> I mean that is a a fascinating story.
00:53:40
Number two for me is the Long Island serial killer case. Um, we've probably I I know we've done we recently did the
00:53:48
four-parter with the Boys on the Tracks. Um, so, you know, we did four parts on the Long Island serial killer.
00:53:54
>> Well, side note with the Boys on the Track, the reason why that's not on my list is because I believe that the
00:54:01
evidence is there, that the case is solved. There's just no justice there. >> Right. I agree 100% with you. Uh but as
00:54:10
far as Long Island serial killer goes, I mean, this is this is a case that of course
00:54:16
>> wrapped up the nation's attention. Uh but it's crazy that somebody has been killing this amount of people or maybe
00:54:22
even two two killers have been killing this amount of people for this length of time and not been caught. The thing that
00:54:28
I thought that was interesting as far as true crime garage goes is that we we never intentionally sat sat down and
00:54:36
intended to do this many episodes on the Long Island serial killer. It just kind
00:54:40
of came about as new information came out. We covered this in episodes four and five, then again uh in episode 20
00:54:47
and episode 74. So, this is a case that's been with the garage since season one. Well, and I think one of the things
00:54:55
that's really interesting about this is back to your idea of true crime authors.
00:54:59
I mean, look, if you're into if you're into uh true crime podcast, do yourself a favor and listen to a good true crime
00:55:06
book, like a audio book. >> I mean, you want to talk about D, you know, people are all into, you know,
00:55:11
these like, you know, STO or whatever or missing Richard Simmons and those are great productions or whatever, but to
00:55:18
listen, you know, I'm listening to The Devil's Knot now. >> Oh my goodness. Oh man, it's
00:55:22
>> that's one of the best true crime books ever, >> man. And here's the thing. It's not the
00:55:27
author's voice cuz it's not her reading it. It's somebody else reading it. H wor it's a worse voice than you.
00:55:35
>> But the author is is Mara Lever. One of the best one of the best true crime authors out there. It devil's not
00:55:41
fantastic. >> And then we kind of got on to you. Well, you got really sucked into the Long
00:55:46
Island serial killer case based off of Lost Girls. >> Yeah. >> And that's a book that if you have
00:55:51
Robert Hulker. He's a fantastic author as well. >> Hands down, one of the best, maybe one
00:55:55
of the best books. >> Oh, yeah. One of the best true crime books. And and and I'll tell you what,
00:56:00
the Long Island serial killer case, I was one of the dorks that was on the the Long Island serial killer.com website
00:56:07
for years, listening to all these trolls bash each other. And it it was crazy because you you'd have this community of
00:56:14
people that sounded like they wanted to get together and work to try to solve the case. It was basically like web
00:56:19
sleuths except for it was very specific. It was only going to cover Long Island serial killer. What ended up happening
00:56:26
after you f you know you get through this year and a half and it was the same similar to Mara Murray where people had
00:56:33
strong opinions about their theories and they were going to kind of force them upon you at some point.
00:56:37
>> It got so bad on that website that some of the people were accusing other people
00:56:42
on the website of being the Long Island serial killer. >> Right. Right. That's a That's always fun
00:56:48
to wake up and read, huh? >> Yeah. Hey, hey, by the way, you're the killer. What? Plus, remember the the rap
00:56:54
that we played on our on our episode? The >> Oh, yeah. >> Because I killed him. >> You know, I don't remember the words.
00:57:00
>> It sound like a country song. >> Yeah. >> Don't do that again. But there was some
00:57:04
creepy person came up with this whole Long Island serial killer rap that sounded like they were the killer and
00:57:10
they posted it on on the website and it was just randomly on there one day for a
00:57:15
couple weeks and then they took it down. >> Yeah. Well, it was it was a catchy tune
00:57:20
though. >> It was >> it was a catchy tune. Catchy little number, >> but it was about these murders. Yeah.
00:57:26
That's and and you know this the prostitute that came out and said hey I think there's
00:57:33
I look I think there's your original thought was there was really something to Shannon Gilbert going to this like
00:57:39
almost like sex party >> right >> and I think there's >> or Brewer's house >> right and I think that's where your
00:57:47
answers are going to are going to lie >> if they ever get into that and and all the stuff with the chief of the the new
00:57:54
police officer that got in trouble and all that stuff. Interesting case. And that's one that if it sucks you in,
00:58:01
byebye. >> Be in there for a while. >> Bye-bye. See you later. You'll get back to us at episode 200.
00:58:07
>> Yeah. Check in when you resurface. >> My number two is Brandon Lawson. >> Oh, fantastic.
00:58:13
>> Um, it's very simple. It's exactly what you said, the 91. >> You are exactly right.
00:58:19
>> Well, thank you. when you said, "I I listened to the tape and and being a audio engineer for years, I thought I
00:58:26
could manipulate this and I can know what he says and I couldn't." >> And it was really frustrating.
00:58:36
I don't I don't hear fear as much as maybe other people do. Um I've read almost every post on our blog about what
00:58:46
people think he says. >> Yeah, that was really cool. We had like what 70 or 80 people write in what they
00:58:52
think he's saying. >> Yeah. It was interesting though because when we did uh when we decided to do it,
00:58:57
you know, that's one of the things anytime there's a case, it's can we put a spin on it. If the case hasn't been
00:59:04
covered before, we just cover the case, >> right? >> But it's but with all these other cases,
00:59:10
it's just what can we bring to the table? Can we bring a different viewpoint? you know, can we add anything
00:59:17
to the conversation? If we can't, then we're just not going to cover it. You know, my my thing was, I think I can
00:59:25
dissect this and then we should dissect it live. So, I had all these clips that I dissected and then we were playing it
00:59:33
for you >> and we're trying to get our reactions >> on the spot, which was really
00:59:38
interesting. And yeah, everybody would say, "Oh, well, he's he's saying this." It's clear that he's saying this,
00:59:45
>> which is good. Calm down. We wanted we wanted to hear what other ears were hearing. Our ears aren't always right.
00:59:50
And and the the the loss of 911 tape is is just that if you listen to it 10 times, you might hear nine different
00:59:58
things. You know, it's you might have a different outcome nine out of 10 times. >> Well, what's what's the town he was
01:00:05
heading towards? >> Abalene, >> right? We all like we didn't we didn't hear at the time and we didn't look up a
01:00:12
map because we were just trying to keep going and and just you know here's our initial reaction. Let's see see what
01:00:20
happens when we hit record. >> Mhm. >> So yeah, we didn't look up a map and then No, that's all I'm saying. I I've
01:00:25
heard that 300 times. Yes, I know he's saying that now. I knew I think we knew after we push uh publish
01:00:33
on the podcast. We knew that. Oh, that's what he said, you know, but we're not going to go back and fix that. So,
01:00:40
>> that was a fun night in the garage though because we did both episodes in one recording and we we sat in here and
01:00:46
listened to that thing probably four or 500 times. Uh, and you know, the listeners are probably thankful that we
01:00:52
didn't put all four or 500 of them on the episodes, but we we manipulated it, changed it, tweaked it, did everything
01:00:59
we could to try to dissect the thing and come up with what poor Brandon Lawson was saying on that 911 call. you know,
01:01:05
the editing on the computer sometimes just physically makes me ill. >> And after that night, it was just like
01:01:13
head was spinning and I just thought, uh, you know, and everybody's going to say, "Well, that's just too much beer.
01:01:18
Captain, shut up." Um, no. So, yeah, that's my number two. Number one for me will be
01:01:25
the West Memphis 3 case. Um, again, this kind of falls into the whole Kurt Cobain
01:01:30
thing where maybe it, you know, some would argue that it's solved. You know, we have we have three guys that took an
01:01:36
Alfred plea and uh that's going to be the end of it. I me that just angers me more.
01:01:42
>> Uh you know, we we have three child victims here that were brutally killed. We have three guys that I'm not going to
01:01:50
lie to you, Captain. I I'm not convinced either way on Damian Eckles in that situation. Were they guilty? Were they
01:01:57
not guilty? I think that >> Oh, God. >> I think that the the >> Take it back. No, I'm I'm saying I'm I
01:02:03
could be swayed either way depending on what day it is. I I I see things that point towards their guilt. I see a lot
01:02:08
of things that point towards their innocence. The problem I see is that the problem with the investigation that the
01:02:14
investigation was mishandled from the get-go. And I think that's how they ended at at that conclusion. The problem
01:02:20
here is when you give when you let three guys out of prison, but you say as a state, oh, we're letting them out, but
01:02:26
they're guilty. What kind of justice is that for anybody? it it's not it's it's an unsolved case. Uh unfortunately, I
01:02:33
don't think they're ever going to work on it anymore uh because the state of the case, but I mean the it's like we
01:02:41
said, The Devil's Not is one of one of the best true crime books out there. And this is one of those cases for me that
01:02:47
about once every year and and I never >> Well, and the Paradise Lost, I mean, is
01:02:52
kind of what is, you know, the uh what's the godfather of all Yeah. >> True crime documentaries, you know.
01:03:01
>> Yep. And and for me though, Captain, as far as the West Memphis 3 case goes, I
01:03:06
never know when or where it's going to happen. But about once or twice a year, it pops up in my mind and it won't it
01:03:13
won't get out of there. I have to I fall back into that case uh you know, once a
01:03:18
year, twice a year. It's it's it's always with me. >> I call it a red light case.
01:03:24
You know, when you're sitting on a red light >> Mhm. and just pops into your head like
01:03:29
this is what happened. Pull up to a red light. >> Oh my god, that son of a [ __ ] killed
01:03:35
him. >> Y >> that son of that those boys killed those boys. >> Yep. >> That and and no look and before I get
01:03:42
any hate mail, that's what happens. >> Just random thought. >> My random thought will be what if Damen
01:03:47
Eckles did it? And then my brain goes down that thought and then I got to recollect. My brain starts recollecting
01:03:55
all the evidence and I go, "What if Terry Hobbs did it? What if, you know, >> yeah,
01:04:02
>> buyers did it?" And then I go down this rabbit hole for a little bit. Then I stop. It could be a week later, you
01:04:09
know, pull up, get in my Subway. I'll take a Italian BMT on on wheat, please. Oh my god, Terry Hobbs is guilty of sin.
01:04:21
It's Terry Hobbs. And then and then the other thing about it too is I I start going I start just talking like this all
01:04:28
the time. I made that moon water. >> Jesse Miss Kelly. >> Jesse Miss Kelly. >> No, you're exactly right though. It's it
01:04:36
it's you hit the nail on the head. It's a red light case because it randomly pops in your head and then you're like,
01:04:42
you know what? Damn, I just wasted eight hours of free time looking into this case again and still have no idea what
01:04:49
happened at the end of the day. >> Yeah. And and those I think we did a really good job. Uh you know, we bicker
01:04:55
back and forth on how how the that's another one I still we did a good job. >> We did a
01:05:01
>> You're wrong. We did a damn good job. Yeah, but the the way the case was supposed to go down was supposed to be u
01:05:10
the timeline then the confessions and the evidence >> and then the whole third part was
01:05:16
supposed to be discussing the boys just not discussing the three victims but discussing the West Memphis three each
01:05:25
individually and we kind of did that >> and whether they were guilty or not >> right and so but it's it's a look if you
01:05:32
don't know much about that case. Uh, you know, it's it's one that will suck you in. And I think a lot of it, too, is
01:05:38
because we were those teenage boys, you know, we were the we were >> somewhat. >> Well, well, let me put this out there. I
01:05:48
mean, yes. Yeah. Somewhat. And this just kind of hit me. Um maybe the reason why
01:05:55
I'm so fascinated about that case is or by that case is is that we're actually both sides of the fence. You know what I
01:06:04
mean? That we are the three victims. >> Mhm. >> You know, young boys, 8-year-old boys.
01:06:12
And what did you do with your 8-year-old friends? You rode your bikes around. >> Yeah.
01:06:17
>> And where did we hang out? And we ride bikes around town. And you did too. And
01:06:23
>> in the neighborhood. >> In the neighborhood. And right in the neighborhood was a creek.
01:06:27
>> Yeah. >> Creek, creek, however you want to say it. That's where we'd play. And that's where we could have died.
01:06:34
>> Mhm. >> And we were just 8 years old. We're just 10 years old, 12 years old, just doing
01:06:39
that. How many times did we come across teenagers that maybe wanted to bully some kids?
01:06:47
And how many times did we get beat up by those kids? Uh but that could have turned into, you know, death.
01:06:53
>> Mhm. >> And then on the other side of things, um as you get older and you dive into
01:07:00
some some new interests, music or whatever it is, art, um you might not line up with society
01:07:09
or the way, you know, >> I think most teenagers feel like they don't line up with society, whether
01:07:14
whether they're in the mainstream or off in some other click, you know. Um >> right. which I understand, but I think
01:07:20
also >> but we we did wear the black t-shirts, you know? >> Well, we're in a rock band.
01:07:25
>> Yeah, Metallica was was pretty much the [ __ ] I mean, come on. >> Right. >> Come on.
01:07:30
>> But yeah, I think maybe that's what it is. Like both sides of the fence. And then, you know, Jason Baldwin didn't
01:07:37
want to take the plea. And I still to this day, I mean, I can't I'm probably never going to meet them, you know, and
01:07:45
they're probably never going to hear this, but it's like I don't know. There's there's a part of
01:07:50
me that wishes they would end up taking it. Um, and there's a part of me that wishes
01:07:57
that, you know, people look, Johnny Depp, all these guys did all this stuff in their power to get these boys free,
01:08:04
but let's keep fighting. that that's one of those cases I just wish was solved, >> you know, and at the end of the day,
01:08:12
>> man, I wish that case was solved. >> All right, so let's go through our list real quick. Mine I'll do mine first cuz
01:08:19
mine's the best. Number 10, Joey Leute. Number nine, Matrice Richardson. Number eight, Johnny Gosh. Number seven, Kurt
01:08:28
Cobain. Number six, Emma Filipof. Number five, Adam Walsh. Number four, Mara Murray. Number three, Brian Schaefer.
01:08:38
Number two, Brandon Lawson. And number one, West Memphis 3. >> And my list, we got to make sure we put
01:08:44
these on the website, right? So people don't have to write them down as they're listening. But
01:08:48
>> we'll do something. Yeah. >> For me, number 10, Mara Murray. >> Wait, hold on. I guess I'll do
01:08:52
something. >> The For me, number 10, the disappearance of Mara Murray. Number nine, our
01:08:58
photograph episode. Number eight, Tony Muny. Number seven, April Tinsley. Number six, the Austin yogurt shop
01:09:06
murders. Five, Brandon Lawson. Four, Brian Schaefer. Three, Amy Mahalavik. Two, the Long Island serial killer. And
01:09:14
number one, the West Memphis 3 case. >> You know, we've done a 100 episodes. >> How the hell do you feel about that?
01:09:22
>> Oh, I feel extremely positive. I mean, when we set out and we first started doing this, we started in my garage and
01:09:28
then we moved to your garage. um >> cuz I was tired of carrying my equipment to your house.
01:09:33
>> And when we recorded in my garage, um it was for the first few episodes of of
01:09:39
season 1, maybe the first handful of episodes. And um uh >> I wish I would have recorded our fight
01:09:46
in your garage. >> But but no, it's been amazing to me. It's been a it's been a hell of a ride.
01:09:52
It's been a thrilling ride. Um glad it's over. >> We still keep getting new listeners
01:09:56
every day. Uh we started off with uh one listener. Yeah. >> And now we're all the way up to uh
01:10:02
>> Well, no, there was two. We both listened. >> That's right. That's right. But, uh,
01:10:06
some surprising moments to me um would probably be, you know, each week we we're we're picking a different case.
01:10:14
>> And, you know, I've always been the true crime dork. And so maybe I'm able to
01:10:19
kind of review these things and look at them uh with kind of a cold heart from time to time because you it's tough not
01:10:26
to let these things get to you. Um, but the probably the surprising thing to me is that it's always been very easy for
01:10:34
me to read about these things, learning how tough it can be to talk about some of them. Uh, and I mean from an
01:10:40
emotional standpoint, um, way back when we covered, you know, it's a few of these cases have hit me very hard. Um,
01:10:48
>> maybe even thrown me into a a short bout of depression. Um, because you start to
01:10:53
feel like maybe this whole world's just sick and evil. and then you realize, no,
01:10:56
that's that's actually a small percentage of what's going on. Um, but you know, not to recall all of the
01:11:02
accounts, but but when we were researching the Tika Lewis case, the the young uh girl that disappeared in
01:11:08
Washington, um, man, that one really really hit me hard. Uh, borderline like tears a few times during that week, uh,
01:11:18
studying that case. So, >> well, yeah. Well, West Memphis 3. I mean, you know, having uh stepsons that
01:11:25
I raised for a while and I just remember, you know, that case being so fascinating. And as far as like the
01:11:32
documentaries have always been on, you know, not always, but the the main focus is on that these boys were wrongly
01:11:40
wrongfully convicted. >> And yes, I feel for them if that is the case. Uh I I you know I think deep down
01:11:49
I believe that's the case but eight-year-old kids and you start reading about that stuff and I just
01:11:58
remember one day just balling in my garage just going >> you know is this is this worth it? Yeah.
01:12:05
Yeah. >> You know, uh but then excite, you know, but then uh you know, we kind of started
01:12:11
doing this for for ourselves, you know, for people >> purely purely for fun actually.
01:12:17
>> Well, no, but but for me it was, you know, I I would drive to gigs and I was just by myself
01:12:26
>> driving for two hours >> and if it wasn't for people like Adam Corolla, you know, my life, my quality
01:12:33
of life would have been down. Mhm. >> And so I'd get in that car at 3:00, 4:00 in the morning and be driving home and
01:12:41
wow, you know, I'm I'm now in Corolla studio listening to Ball Bryan uh Gina Grad uh at at the time Allison Rosen and
01:12:51
uh if it wasn't for them, you know, my quality of life would have been down. And so when we get these messages of
01:12:58
saying, "Oh, I listen to you at work. I listen to you at my commute. I listen to
01:13:02
you while I cook dinner." I mean, that's to me it's like, oh, I I actually matter. You know, what I'm doing
01:13:09
actually matters to somebody. >> And we've had times uh twice now that our server has gone down.
01:13:16
>> Yeah. >> Because the listenership has grown so big. >> Mhm. >> And at first we had a free plan. We had
01:13:24
a free plan and then the people said to us, "Hey, you're too big. You're costing
01:13:28
us thousands of dollars. >> Do a subscription." So, we did a subscription, paid for that, and a
01:13:35
couple weeks ago it crashed. >> We had to upgrade >> and everybody come going, I can't get
01:13:38
your damn episodes. I go, "Well, contacted them and they go, you guys are too big. You need a network server."
01:13:45
>> Yeah. >> Okay. Well, we'll get one of those. And those are proud moments. or or you know
01:13:50
when they write you up at in Rolling Stone magazine or or you know you know I I wasn't hip to the Congratulation
01:13:58
Podcast but when you're such a fan of somebody's work and uh he he says uh I've been listening to Murder Garage I
01:14:05
mean uh True Crime Garage >> to hear somebody that you admire say your show's name
01:14:12
that's pretty uh it makes you feel like you did something with your life and I think we all you know are capable of
01:14:20
doing great things and doing so much more with our lives. And we all have been at the point where you just kind of
01:14:27
sit around and just go this is I mean we were both laid off. >> Mhm. >> And we both felt like pieces of [ __ ]
01:14:35
>> Fallen on tough times. >> I mean we both were we both got paid a severance especially as a musician. I
01:14:41
mean I think you go through these times you know I just played in a cover band. >> Yeah. Yeah, you know, I'd play in the
01:14:46
corner. Most of the time people would even clap, you know, so to think that you're just never going to have your
01:14:54
chance or you're never going to have your moment to do something great. And uh we've put a lot of work and a lot of
01:15:00
time and energy and uh you know, but when those people say I listen to you or you make my week better, makes it all
01:15:08
worth it. >> Yeah. >> So, appreciate you guys listening. A surprising thing for me on the upside
01:15:14
would be, you know, you talked about you getting a message or or you know, I've I've got a few messages, bumped into a
01:15:21
few people and uh been told, you know, this these are the ones that really uplift me and make me feel great is
01:15:28
that, you know, I've had people say, you know what, I was going through a tough time or I had a lot going on uh that was
01:15:34
that was really bad in my life, you know, bringing me down and I was able to put on your show for one hour a week and
01:15:42
kind of just disappear. It took me away from from whatever was bothering me. I was able to laugh a little bit. I It
01:15:48
took my mind away and I was able to take a mental vacation for an hour and you've
01:15:52
really helped me through a tough time. Um and and sometimes people that have to be away on long trips away from their
01:15:59
family. Um you know, speaking of which, I I got a good friend that's in the Air Force. He's over overseas right now
01:16:05
serving his country. Yeah. Big shout out to my friend Ryan. uh praying for you, buddy. Want you to come home um all in
01:16:13
one piece for us. And uh we thank you for your service and your sacrifice. Uh we miss you. Uh but it's it's things
01:16:20
like that where people that have to be away from their families that >> I don't know them
01:16:23
>> that that have said, you know, you just the little that you do has has passed
01:16:29
the time faster for me. >> Um so that that's really incredible. >> But I got a lot of hate early on. I
01:16:36
still get a lot of hate. And tr truthfully, I mean, it's at first, man. Oh, it it bothered me a lot,
01:16:47
but I and I think and this is going to sound kind of cheesy, I guess. But I think it was funny cuz like, you know,
01:16:54
especially like when the server went down the one time, I think I was up for 30ome hours just working on it
01:17:01
>> and then I'd go to the website and some jackass would be going, >> "Shut up, Captain. Shut up." Well, guess
01:17:08
what? It's my show. >> I'll say whatever I want, >> whenever I want. Don't be a douche
01:17:13
canoe. But in the process, it I think made me give a [ __ ] about myself a little bit
01:17:20
more. >> Mhm. >> And say, well, nah, haters going to hate, haters going to ain't
01:17:26
>> and uh but you know, seriously, I mean, appreciate everybody listening and telling people, and it's uh it's been a
01:17:35
fun ride. And that's it. >> Now we got to gear up for 100 more. >> Well, I'm done. This is my last one. I
01:17:41
told you I'd do a 100. >> 101 with Nick only. >> Nick's Nick will be back next week. I taught
01:17:49
him how to record. So, be interesting. >> I want to thank all the listeners for giving us our 100th episode because it's
01:17:56
it's it's because of them that we've had 100 episodes. So, thank you guys for giving us our 100 episodes. Thank you,
01:18:02
captain, for all your hard work and that you've done. >> Thanks for showing up. Thank you for
01:18:06
showing up over, you know, the the span of almost two years now. And >> no, this guy would come in work 60 hours
01:18:13
a week, sometimes 70 hours a week, and when we're doing a West Memphis 3, he was working insane hours, but then we
01:18:23
recorded almost every night. So, uh, thank you for doing that. And somebody right now is listening and they're
01:18:29
going, "These guys are really giving themselves pats on the back." Godamn right I am. Godamn right I am. So,
01:18:37
welcome to Parts Unknown. Thanks for listening. All right, we will see everybody back here in the garage
01:18:44
for episode 101 next week. And until then, be good, be kind, and don't litter.