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that's s a n everyday.com [Music] [Music] n [Music] now Jim and Frank I'm absolutely
00:01:55
fascinated by this tip line call that comes in in February of 19 1997 it's supposed to be a tip to try to
00:02:02
help direct or give information regarding the investigation in the homicide of John B Ramsey what was the
00:02:11
date of this call and what was the nature of this call okay so what we have now everybody has to
00:02:19
understand that case File information in this case coming out into the public sphere it doesn't
00:02:27
exist I mean you have the Ramsay interview uh John's interview you got uh two R py
00:02:34
Ramsey interviews but case File information we don't have it except for this and this is from the
00:02:44
this is a report from the Boulder Police Department we were emailed this from a third party saying that we should take a
00:02:52
look at something and they sent us a file and it was this so I'm so we're looking at it and you have there's a
00:03:00
date it's to one of the commanders at the Boulder Police Department and it's also to the district
00:03:07
attorney's office it's written by a detective dated 22697 1430 hours and in this tip line
00:03:21
call the detective is interviewing a woman who's calling to give information about a family member her
00:03:35
brother and she's stating that after seeing the Ramsay murder she thought maybe she should
00:03:43
call and let the police know and as the detective is interviewing her she's talking
00:03:54
about how her brother is a part of St John's Church and how he had sex with his sister her
00:04:08
from the age of 11 to the age of 18 and the woman is also states that her brother has mentioned that he knows the
00:04:21
Ramsay family and she wants this information to be given to the police and think it may
00:04:30
help and that they may want to look at her brother so that is in essence the tip line call it goes into you know I
00:04:39
don't want to read the whole thing but it just goes into where she lives where the brother
00:04:49
lives but the Crux of it is the information that she was sexually abused by her brother over a period of years so
00:04:58
you talking about incest and because of her age it's and she mentions it it started off as uh kind of
00:05:09
like nude modeling but then LED on into full intercourse so this wasn't just a case
00:05:16
of slight molestation so that is in essence this tip line call to be clear here the this tip that's coming in is
00:05:28
coming in for and I know that you've already said a lot of this but I want I want everybody
00:05:34
to have a good understanding the tip that's coming in is saying Not only was I subjected to abuse or
00:05:43
incest at the hands of my brother but this individual has uh direct ties to St John's Church and is in Boulder Colorado
00:05:54
1996 December um and so this individual should be of great concern especially factoring in that the victim in that
00:06:05
abuse case that she's calling in would have been a a younger victim yes she she was she was in her
00:06:15
40s when she made this call back and so this happened many many years prior to the murder so the the uh she was aged 10
00:06:26
or 11 when it started lasted up to she was around 18 her brother this is the person that's
00:06:34
connected to St John's was around 16 when he started the abuse of his sister and for whatever
00:06:43
reason when she when the John Benet Ramsey case broke it just reminded her of her
00:06:51
brother and she was like I better call the tip line which she did and then what you have here is
00:07:01
the detective interviewing her over the phone and she's giving him this information the other thing that came in
00:07:08
was a narrative written by another detective and it pretty much goes over the phone call that the other
00:07:20
detective had and it's just basically a summary and the detective actually writes after speaking with this woman
00:07:30
I felt it was important to speak with her brother so they bring the brother in and they question him but before the
00:07:40
brother they bring in Reverend hover stock who was the director or the head priest of St John's
00:07:51
Church they tell him about the phone call they have received from this woman and they and they they
00:08:00
mentioned that this person is that she's talking about is from St John's and hover stock says oh yeah I know him but
00:08:11
he said I'm shocked to learn about any kind of sexual molestation about him I had no
00:08:20
idea that is an important statement by Reverend hover stock because we have other
00:08:29
information that contradicts that statement by him and that's going to lead us to what
00:08:38
we what I want to call the uh the church timeline of events okay the church timeline is
00:08:46
not a police document this is a document that I made based on interviews with the person from St
00:08:58
John's that wrote The Man The Manchurian da and then later my brother and I got the name of another individual and
00:09:12
we contacted this person and we called this person so this is a third person so you have the tip line woman you have the
00:09:20
poem writer woman and now we found the uh person that we call the witness in the
00:09:27
church and the witness describes to us a story that ties in the poem The Three Men poem and how those how certain
00:09:43
stanzas were based on true events based on our witness in the church it's what our witness went through and witnessed
00:09:53
so our witness at the church joins St John's Episcopal Church in 1992 our witness states that father
00:10:03
hover stock is notified about an individual by the IND individual's sister that individual I'm referring to
00:10:16
is the individual I just talked about in the tip line the brother the sister that made the tip
00:10:23
line call in 1997 went to the church and told father htoo about her brother that
00:10:38
transpired according to our witness between the years 1992 and 1994 this is a huge
00:10:48
problem because as I had just read in the police documents hover stock said he was shocked to learn about this
00:10:58
IND individual and about any kind of sexual molestation according to what my witness
00:11:06
says he knew years prior so he knew exactly what this person was years before John Benet
00:11:16
died and then lied to the cops about it that opens up a can of worms because he was there that
00:11:25
morning he's a close friend of John Ramsay so big problems to continue with the church
00:11:35
timeline uh hover stock is notified about the brother by the brother's sister concerning the brother's sexual
00:11:44
abuse of her when she was younger mid90s father hsto oversees St John's 100th anniversary Capital Campaign which
00:11:54
resulted in a major restoration and expansion on Church campus Millions ions of dollars are
00:12:00
raised this is an extremely wealthy Church everybody needs to remember that okay January February
00:12:10
1997 woman calls the ramsy murder tip line the woman tells the Boulder Police Department about her
00:12:17
brother who is a member at St John's she tells the Boulder Police that her brother started having
00:12:25
sex with her around the age of 11 through 8 18 years of age she states that her brother you know that they need
00:12:33
to look at her brother when it comes to the murder of John Benet Ramsey February March 97 B the police
00:12:40
interview father htoo Overstock talks about the brother HCK says he has no knowledge of the
00:12:49
brother being a child molester Overstock says he is shocked to learn of this information and as I just stated my
00:12:56
witness contradicts that claim uh February March 997 The Boulder Police Department interviewed the brother
00:13:05
uh during that interview with the brother he pretty much has no alibi asleep at home with the with the
00:13:16
wife that's not considered a good Alibi April 30th 1997 let me jump in here for a second yes
00:13:25
sir where in proximity to the Ramsey Hall home is asleep at home with the wife very close minutes minutes driving
00:13:36
minutes walking minutes walking walking minutes walking continue on I'm sorry 1998 our
00:13:46
witness befriends the brother at St John's like I had mentioned earlier uh he was a very popular individual at
00:13:58
the the church uh the brother starts to talk to my witness as they get closer and then all of a sudden starts
00:14:11
telling her about incest fantasies that he's having starts showing her his writings
00:14:19
about incest and tells our witness that he is watching and fantasizing about little
00:14:27
girls who attend the who attend church at St John's uh my witness goes to Father hover stock and
00:14:41
other vestri members who are when we say vestri that's elected Church officials and she tries to tell them
00:14:51
about this individual's actions and behaviors about the incest fantasies and the fantasized about girls at the
00:15:00
church she is either dismissed or not believe and as she told me in N I believe it was 98 when she went to htoo
00:15:11
and told him what was going on with this individual Overstock told her to go light a
00:15:20
candle and then walked away I mean in reality uh this brother is grooming or I believe trying to groom the witness
00:15:29
yes she has a young child the witness got very upset during one of the phone calls and she started asking me why why
00:15:37
did he pick me why did he pick me to tell me these things and to show me these things and I
00:15:45
said you have a daughter right how old was she she was young I said he was most likely grooming you to get to your
00:15:54
daughter to see where you were at that's why he picked you anyway to continue Good Friday
00:16:06
1999 our witness finds child pornography and what is described to me as this individual's uh Studio inside the
00:16:20
church my witness notifies the vest members they notifi the the police department let me jump in here again
00:16:32
Frank so when we say finds child pornography are we talking about digital paper pictures what are we what
00:16:39
are we talk do we have an idea did not go into specifics okay so it could have it could have been one picture it could
00:16:47
have been a mountain of pictures we we don't we don't fully know it was it was uh as the only way she described it was
00:16:56
child pornography and other stuff okay that's it that's the only description something that that prompted
00:17:05
this individual to call the police it prompted her to notify vestri members Church leadership and they
00:17:14
called the police okay good Friday continuing 1999 B the police are called to the
00:17:22
church the Boulder Police uh have to break into the room cu it looks like this individual had locked
00:17:30
the door and now I refer back to the thre men poem uh they did not know he changed the
00:17:40
key when police would come to query so they broke and entered quietly though he would claim illicitly over a period of
00:17:49
years all this stuff is starting to add up they find child pornography and other
00:17:57
stuff there is one vest member uh who was present they give us the name I'm not going to mention the
00:18:06
name and having knowledge of these events my witness says there was several vest members present but there was one
00:18:13
name she remembered in particular the child pornography is taken out of the church and the
00:18:20
individual is removed from the church but is not arrested by the Boulder Police Department
00:18:29
for whatever reason it the bould of police cover up the search at St John's it's never made public there's no
00:18:38
paperwork on it that I ever that we ever found the public is has never been made
00:18:46
aware that a search at the church has ever taken place never mind that pornography was
00:18:54
found April May 1999 now this is where the poem writer information comes in because she was interviewed poem
00:19:07
writer states that vestri members meet to discuss what to do with this individual the poem writer states that
00:19:17
this individual is asked to leave the church this individual refuses this individual blackmails the
00:19:30
church the witness states that this individual Ed the phrase if I go down we all go
00:19:39
down this individual is paid off the amount paid poem writer states is $300,000 yeah read the line from the
00:19:51
poem Frank oh and then you go back to the poem and so avoiding Calum a grand sum he was paid to
00:20:02
flee now you got to understand we got the poem in 2003 and we're getting this information in like
00:20:09
2018 so everything is is connecting uh so this individual was paid uh around $300,000 my uh there's also payments to
00:20:27
other individuals and as my witness States rumors swirled among the church congregation that money
00:20:37
from the capital campaign was used to pay off this individual so it's not like people didn't have an idea you know
00:20:47
Church gossip gets around my brother and I talked to other people at the church they didn't want to
00:20:53
talk about this incident nobody denied it but they use phrases like uh that situation was taken care of
00:21:04
another person said uh we don't focus on that anymore we moved past that nobody denied it another line used
00:21:15
was we already took care of that with the Boulder Police believe it or not now so he's
00:21:24
paid to go away give him some walking around money some walking away money what year was
00:21:33
that stated it's by my witness uh by the poem writer is April May 1999 okay so $300,000 in 1999 today that
00:21:47
would be $550,000 approximately in today's money to to give everybody a good idea of how
00:21:56
much this guy was given away given to walk away to to vanish get the hell out of here and then we need to Clue the
00:22:04
listeners in too because the church a church is only as successful or wealthy or powerful as its congregation right
00:22:16
and in this situation St John's is in a very affluent part of of Colorado Boulder is
00:22:25
very affluent compared to many parts of Colorado but also the na this neighborhood in
00:22:32
particular is kind of the creme Dela Creme of of Boulder correct well just to give you an idea this is Supreme Court
00:22:42
gor's Church yeah these are the kind of people that go there this is how this kind of money is raised for a capital
00:22:51
campaign where oh we're looking to do an expansion and people in the congregation
00:22:57
give money and you you raise a few million not to mention not to mention the church
00:23:03
gave this person in today's money half a million dollars this is the same person
00:23:09
who was alleged by his sister raped and abused her fantasized about incest and about abusing other girls at the church
00:23:18
had child pornography at the church and you're going to give this person money to go
00:23:26
someplace else well well I mean that's that's how it all it all adds up in totality now you have to understand the
00:23:36
witness is not aware you know when I told her about poems she had no idea she she didn't know anything about poems and
00:23:45
when I was talking with her my the witness even said you know I started talking about the Ramsay case and she
00:23:52
started getting nervous she the witness is like you're not telling me that he could be part of this it's
00:23:59
like they didn't even they they don't know about the tipl line call because nobody knows about the tip line call the
00:24:07
witness didn't know apparently the poem writer may have had an idea when when it's written in the poem his sister told
00:24:16
them it could be so to finish the timeline after this individual is paid off and leaves the
00:24:25
church one of this individual 's close friends who was known as a bad seed a bad guy that's the information that we
00:24:37
received on this individual my witness states that this close friend of the individual who just got paid off
00:24:47
starts to stalk her children and threatens her to the point where she has to get a
00:24:55
restraining order against this individual and that's the end of the church timeline
00:25:04
so and I'm sure and I apologize to the listeners I know this is like a lot of information and it seems like we jump
00:25:11
all over the place but what you have here is a problem with this case especially when it comes to hover
00:25:20
stock because it's apparent I have no doubts about my witness the first phone call I had with her she was
00:25:32
nervous and I said we'll continue it at another time once I mentioned poems and she started panicking at the Ramsay K
00:25:41
that just somehow connected she panicked she calls me two days later and pretty much says what are you doing I said I'm
00:25:49
laying in bed watching college football what are you doing she's like I'm having
00:25:54
a picnic with my family here's how it happened happened and that's when she told me everything
00:26:00
in order and that's how the church timeline came into existence M so it appears hover stock light
00:26:09
according to this witness you have child pornography removed by the Boulder Police Department in a search the person
00:26:18
whose child pornography who has the child pornography is not arrested that's a problem because this
00:26:28
is the this is the the group that's supposed to be that's supposed to solve the ramsy cave and you're covering up
00:26:34
for pedophile so it appears the church and the police were kind of working hand inand
00:26:42
to make sure that this never came to light but what happened somebody got cute and wrote a
00:26:50
poem back in 2201 never guessing that it anybody could ever figure it out Lou knew what's
00:27:02
important me and my brother knew what's important we kept digging and now we are
00:27:08
at where we are at and we don't know how I don't think we can take it any farther we achieved
00:27:16
every goal that we set out in 97 to achieve we said there'd be a witness that would
00:27:23
make claims of child sexual abuse against JN or somebody close to those accusations were made the witness
00:27:31
came forward from California we said that if we kept digging in the town eventually we would
00:27:38
come across another case or another Scandal that roped in Ramsey case players that is what happened in the
00:27:48
church church Scandal the Ramsey Church the one John Benet went to an individual and then you have
00:28:00
payoffs and a coverup break this Scandal open get answers on why the police did what they did and the district attorney
00:28:13
they're just as culpable too because they had to have known about the surch they knew about the tip line
00:28:21
call so they knew about this individual from Jump Street District Attorney's office and the police department and
00:28:28
how the hell they get that tipline call in 97 and nothing happens until somebody calls in 99 Frank
00:28:35
what's F what's fascinating is is that you know you never hear anything really discussed about St John's Church you
00:28:44
always hear different you know theories and what's going on in in the house and what happened here what happened there
00:28:51
but no one ever discussed St John's Church and what did Ali what did Ali gray say about St John
00:28:58
Ali gray told us Ali gray was pushing us towards the church to to investigate the
00:29:07
church and two disturbing things he he said he said one concerning uh when when we were
00:29:17
talking about the individual who got caught with the child pornography at St John's Ali's words to
00:29:25
me were it wasn't just him right Ali said that there were multiple people in the church doing what
00:29:35
he was doing when I pressed Ali for names he did not give them to me he said and this this is how Ali dealt with
00:29:45
you know with us sometimes he'd be cryptic because you know he was he was dealing with his own non-disclosure
00:29:50
agreement well and detectives are always kind of very secretive right and they they they want to they want to keep it
00:29:58
close to the vest not disclose anything until they can susset the whole thing out themselves first they want to get
00:30:06
from you as much as they can exactly that's how they do it Ali was very much like that but what did he say Frank so
00:30:14
he no he said he goes there were other people besides this individual and I'm like involved I'm like involved doing
00:30:23
stuff to kids or child pornography he's like yeah and and my the first thing that came to my head I said not
00:30:28
Overstock right and he's like no he goes he's more trying to keep a lid on it he
00:30:36
goes I'm like well who and he's like look he goes look at the people who pay the bills and I didn't understand when
00:30:44
he told me back then what that meant he was talking the people who pay the bills
00:30:51
at St John's are the vest members the elected officials they literally pay the bills so Ali is saying that
00:31:01
maybe three to four of them why do you think the blackmail was effective if I go down we all go down and that's why
00:31:11
they paid him off because maybe he was threatening to out others so you got a huge problem within this church and like
00:31:18
my brother was saying oh yeah they threw out a lot of names in this case you know
00:31:23
they recycle them every year like clockwork almost Gary Aliva right that every year we'll get a Gary L story uh
00:31:31
what's another good one uh Michael Michael hellgoth oh yeah yeah maybe he did it oh yeah sure uh and then
00:31:41
people you know over the years oh maybe it was somebody from John's job because they were jealous give me a
00:31:56
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safe I I will give you a break I'll tell you what you're going to get another uh
00:37:25
Gary Aliva somebody from John's office uh business from True Crime garage when you tune in next week but but because
00:37:33
what we're trying to do here guys is look at this case from several different people's perspectives with different
00:37:40
possible theories and so we we want to kind of as you guys did with your investigation you you really
00:37:48
investigated Boulder what the hell's going on in this city at this time with with the players all involved what is
00:37:56
going on and so we wanted to do something somewhat similar and talk about things that we didn't get to in
00:38:03
those first six parts so um yeah yeah we we will be you know we're doing this interview here tonight but yeah you'll
00:38:12
hear next week and so don't don't get upset with me and send some rough email my way but
00:38:19
uh no no no it's it's I'm not I'm not mad at people you know the public or people who filed the case discussing it
00:38:30
it's I'm mad at the I'm just mad at the cops I'm mad at the District Attorney's Office it's like it's like they're
00:38:38
running a shell game on the public you know what I mean it's like it's like they almost like they know the truth but
00:38:44
they don't want it to come out in a way that's that's always been the vibe that I've gotten almost from the beginning of
00:38:50
this case it reminds me of the you know the Kennedy assassination in a way right
00:38:55
the mafia did it the Cubans did it you know they keep everybody guessing but don't look at the facts you know and I
00:39:05
know some people think Lee Harvey Oswell did it but some people I'm one of them think that maybe our government was
00:39:11
involved the intelligence agencies because so they keep you looking at everything else but the stuff and the
00:39:18
connections that you can make they don't want you looking at or they hide it the Ramsay K they hid this from the
00:39:27
American public they hid the search if this ha now Nick I don't how old are you Nick just checking you're going to make
00:39:34
me say this on uh on Mike I'm sorry I would have to I'm sorry putot Frank I'm 44 years old 44 years old 44 years
00:39:46
Youngy you're younger than us okay so so you have an understanding a lot of people are younger and they don't
00:39:54
understand what this case was like in the beginning how big it really was if this information
00:40:02
surfaced at the start of the case that church would have been destroyed instantly
00:40:09
instantly this and I for I just can't get away from the fact that they they bent over to protect this church and
00:40:21
protected a pedophile from being arrested for child pornography I mean who was in charge of the the the church
00:40:30
aspect of the investigation are you telling me they don't know this that me and my brother
00:40:39
like they have to know what they did the search right we we just figured it out we just got people to talk anyway uh
00:40:48
yeah it's it's just been a it's been a frustrating you know almost 27 years that's all sorry Nick no and and I'll
00:40:56
tell you what Frank that's a great segue into my next topic and and a good way for us to wrap up our this discussion
00:41:07
was incredible um we could we could talk for for days and nights and and enjoy every moment of it but so Jim I'll
00:41:16
Circle to you because this is how you got my attention Jim you had told me that to to not focus on who we need to
00:41:27
stop focusing right now on who killed John Benet we need to focus more in on the what and the why and as I recall it
00:41:36
you were saying what was going on in in Boulder what was going on with these people in in direct relation to this
00:41:45
case at the time and then the why is why don't they want to solve this case do I
00:41:52
have that correct yes you you do and it's you know it all goes back full circle you know to the to the to the boulder
00:42:00
syndrome and the how how to solve this case was not necessarily who did it but why it happened and what was going on in
00:42:11
the town and John Benet and and the horrible crime that was committed against her she
00:42:19
was a microcosm of what was happening in Boulder and what we were looking at and the
00:42:29
cases that we uncovered and mind you we're not even touching on certain things and certain cases that
00:42:38
involved City officials that were compromised that we've come across other attorneys attorneys
00:42:47
well-known attorneys in the Boulder area sex parties I mean you can go on and on
00:42:55
what was happening in this area and and when you have that type of of culture taking place you're gonna wind
00:43:08
up with a girl a dead little girl like John Benet but you got to know why it happened and what was going on you got
00:43:15
to know the background first that's why my brothers stated we had to start from the outside and work the case from out
00:43:23
inward to to get a bigger picture and like said we're hoping that this case will one day that you know will go
00:43:30
forward and maybe pressure will be put on the Boulder Police Department to give an
00:43:35
answer why certain documents were were were not released why certain things like the search wasn't made public the
00:43:44
American people need should know about that you know heck most people aren't even aware of the poems in the case you
00:43:52
know and these are these are big things um but yeah it's it goes back to the boulder syndrome that what was going on
00:44:00
in in in the town and you know uh Stephen singular said it best that when a town is trying to protect itself the
00:44:09
truth becomes obscured and I thought he put that very well and I would just like
00:44:14
to add you know when pedophilia runs a muck in a community someone dies it's always the
00:44:24
case when invad when pedophilia invades institutions Church uh city government power
00:44:37
structure and they think they can get away with it and just do what they want somebody's gonna get carried away
00:44:46
and that's what that is what I is what we think happened in the John Benet case back then there was a
00:44:54
culture you know as an old saying if you if you subsidize a problem you get more
00:45:01
of it when you ple bargain like that you create a culture pedophiles communicate with each
00:45:10
other imagine you know it's it's it's like uh Slusher we talked about him in the
00:45:18
beginning for what he did that he was an absolute monster monster at 24 when you
00:45:26
give a pedophile like that a slap on the wrist you know what he did when he got out of jail he became a child
00:45:33
pornographer y that's what happens you want to give outl sentences pedophiles are going to think
00:45:40
this the Greatest Town known to know the man hey we can do what we want here and if we do get
00:45:49
caught nothing's going to happen maybe we get you know a small jail sentence heck maybe we don't get any
00:46:00
jail like Jerry Barry or maybe we don't get prosecuted at all Bruce dbor and other cases that we
00:46:12
didn't go into on this show it's it that's the what what was going on the question for 26 years people have been
00:46:20
asking who who who who where's it got you it's got you nowhere ask the other questions well and the one of the poems
00:46:32
references recidivism and you know as somebody who studies crime and crime statistics I can
00:46:40
tell you this that a level three child sex offender has the highest recidivism rates out of any other type of
00:46:50
criminal and here and here they're giving them a slap on the wrist and in some cases nothing and in and in and in other
00:47:02
cases according to people I mean there was no prosecution at all look at the individual of the
00:47:09
church if what everybody said was true now everything's an allegation you know what my Witnesses alleging happened at
00:47:18
the church what the tip line caller alleges it's all allegations and if they're all true you and both
00:47:26
golden you gave this individual the church gave this individual $300,000 nothing happened to him he
00:47:35
walks you know what a pedophile can do with a boatload of cash damage and then the police no arrest and
00:47:44
he just gets to skate off to another Community doing who knows what did they even think that they were
00:47:53
unleashing somebody I mean it's I don't even I tend that really drives me up a wall
00:48:02
that person left the church with a whole lot of money he's been doing this stuff to young kids
00:48:11
allegedly since he was 16 started with his sister and you just let him skate to another community no heads up for them
00:48:20
that this that wherever he landed that this community has a monster coming their way
00:48:27
I don't even want to think if anybody else was harmed because if that's the case cops need to lose their jobs their
00:48:36
pensions anybody involved with what happened at that church if it's true if the allegations are correct they need to
00:48:44
be fired or have their pensions taken away examples must be made people in the church if they're still there that are
00:48:52
in leadership need to be removed sued whatever it's ah I I think this is a good time to
00:49:03
stop before I get too worked up this has been an incredible month here in the garage I'm so excited that
00:49:21
we were able to bring all of this information to you I know it's a lot and it's coming at you from a lot of
00:49:27
different directions but when we covered this case a few years back with our six-part series John Benet we realized
00:49:35
that there was so much more to this case and there were different important perspectives about this case and aspects
00:49:43
that we never even touched on and it was through the success of those episodes and the show's popularity that we were
00:49:52
able to speak with some of the individuals that you heard this month in the garage we spoke with John Wesley
00:49:58
Anderson who worked with Lou SMI who was one of the key players in this case in John B the master detective Parts one
00:50:06
and two we did a further Deep dive on Gary Aliva and some of the other suspects and persons who had claimed to
00:50:13
have been there when John Benet passed or may even have been responsible for her murder in John Benet I killed her
00:50:21
Parts one and two and we recently spoke with Steven and Joyce sing for our interview that we titled John
00:50:28
Benet presumed guilty we recommend that you check out John Wesley Anderson's book Lou and John Benet and the
00:50:37
singulars book presumed guilty we want to thank everybody for joining us this month here in the garage and all year
00:50:44
long and we will have our six-part series on John Benet Ramsey released Christmas week don't forget we have our
00:50:53
other show off the Record that you can subscribe to on Apple subscription or you can subscribe via patreon and for
00:51:03
those of you new to off the Record we have several John Benet Ramsey episodes one in particular that you're going to
00:51:11
want to go back and check out from May 14th when we speak with one of the officers that worked for Boulder Police
00:51:19
Department we will be back to our regular scheduled programming in 2024 and until then we want to thank all
00:51:26
of you and wish you a happy holidays and a Happy New Year and until 2024 be good
00:51:32
be kind and don't let [Music] her [Music] this show is sponsored by betterhelp for
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