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foreign [Music] [Applause] welcome to True Crime garage wherever you are whatever you are doing thanks
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for listening I'm your host Nick and with me as always is a man who if you asked what his three favorite movies
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would be all of his answers would start with the same word and that word is Rocky he is the captain uh I'm not
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Punchy I have what they call a relaxed brain it's good to be seen and good to see you thanks for listening thanks for
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telling a friend [Music] today we are drinking Imperial confession by 1940s Brewing Company this
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is an imperial double Oatmeal Stout that involves one of my favorite things Woodford Reserve this Oatmeal Stout is
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Barrel aged in Woodford Reserve bourbon barrels that's right somewhere Captain there is a guy listening to this at work
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and he is thinking oh my God how can I get out of here and get some oatmeal stout and some bourbon garage grade
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folks four out of five bottle caps and here's some cheers to our good friends first up a cheers to Lavina in San Diego
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California and the big we like your jib to Bridget in Phoenix Arizona how about a big Hauser jib to Bonnie and
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Chesterfield Michigan how's your gym and a big shout out to Lori in Durbin UK and next we have Brianna W and Waka
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Saskatchewan and Last Saskatchewan and last but certainly not least Captain we have Katrina in Kansas City home of the
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champion Chiefs everyone we just mentioned went to True Crime garage.com and they contributed to this week's beer
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fund and for that we are super grateful thank you all yeah we spank you very much make sure that you share the shows
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on social media and you can follow us at True Crime Garage on Twitter Instagram and Facebook and that is enough of the
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business all right everybody gather round grab a chair grab a beer let's talk some true crime
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foreign [Music] thank you thank you [Music] in his best fact crime Edgar award-nominated book
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legendary FBI profiler Roy Hazelwood writes the impulsive offender is not an intelligent criminal he is apt to be
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dull-witted and foolish and is least successful at evading identification and apprehension as the
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term impulsive suggests he lacks discipline and self-control he makes poor decisions
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and carries out his crimes in an unplanned and unsophisticated manner about the only thing that the impulsive
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and ritualistic offenders share in common is an underlying need for power feelings of anger
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or combination of the two the impulsive offender lacks clarity and definition and so do his fantasies
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actually what goes on in his mind probably does not rise to the level of a full-scale fantasy
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whereas a ritualistic offender might paint his mental pictures with patience intelligence
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close attention to detail and a texture from a richly hewed palette the impulsive offender deals in stick
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figures his imaginings are simple and crude more like fragmented thoughts than well-defined Scripts
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the victim appears to him in primitive terms female available and vulnerable she may be a stranger
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his wife or a girlfriend he is not a discriminating Criminal women to him serve a single function
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their disposable vessels for gratification this one-dimensional attitude toward the
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opposite sex ties in with his view of his role in the crime a perspective of entitlement
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I want to do it so I will some of the killers and crimes we will discuss this week are very interesting
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examples of the impulsive offender the described by Mr Hazelwood three of the murders we will discuss are
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prime examples of just that and from the beginning to the end of the attack show the recklessness that is so
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characteristic of the impulsive sex offender one who randomly selects his targets
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with no concern for potential risk and then impulsively seizes the chance to sexually assault an available victim
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taking no precautions to protect his identity [Music] foreign was born August 2nd 1961 in Cody Wyoming
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she will have a little sister named Pamela the family moved out to Poplar Montana when Kim was just four years old
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Poplar is a very very small City in Roosevelt County it is not just BFE it is BFE surrounded by much more BFE
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at the time of our case and still to this very day the population of Poplar is less than one thousand people
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oddly named as the poplar tree is a fast growing tree and the City of Poplar hasn't grown at all Poplar is on the
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southern border of the Fort Peck Indian Reservation the start of our story takes us back to
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1979. and at the very start of the summer of 1979. Kimberly niece was just 17 years
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old a pretty and smart girl coming of age in a small town at Poplar High School Kim was a
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three-year National Honor Society member she played basketball and she was on the
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track team she received a scholarship her brains and hard work made getting good grades
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easy and so with it came that scholarship after graduating high school Kim planned to spend the summer working
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on her father's farm and hanging out with friends a few more times before leaving her little town
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in the fall Kim was off to the big city of over 33 000 residents in Missoula Montana Kim was enrolled to attend
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Autumn classes at the University of Montana now on the evening of Friday June 15th Kimberly niece went on a date
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to the drive-in movie theater in Poplar with her boyfriend his name is Greg norgaard
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they went in norgaard's car and he took her home afterwards sometime around midnight or 12 30 A.M
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Greg was 21 years old and Kimberly was 17. they had been going out for a while they
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had been seeing each other for about a year they say they were going steady for about six months but at this time things
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were not really working out well between the two of them they had a disagreement which in Greg's
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opinion was there was no really resolve to this disagreement this all stems from Greg confronting Kim
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about her having spent the previous evening hanging out with some other guy until the wee hours of the morning yeah
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that normally never goes over in a relationship you never want to hear that do you Captain hey by the way I was
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spinning last night with another guy and we had so much fun we hung out till about I think she said it was like four
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in the morning yeah Kim did not hide this from Greg she was pretty upfront about it they did have
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this disagreement but according to Greg they decided they were going to go on their date anyway and during the date
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they didn't really discuss this matter too much you could cut the tension with a knife well you probably could and I
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think maybe part of the reason for not discussing the the disagreement too much is either you got to move past it at
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some point or you're going to the movies maybe you're really into the movie and you just you
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know you don't want to talk too much during the movie I'm not sure what movie they saw that night Captain I do know
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that the movie Hair which is a disgusting name for anything was a big deal at the time which would
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absolutely be Dreadful to watch at least you're at a drive-in so you can drink beer in your car
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and then Captain you'll like this the movie Rocky 2 came out that very day so not certain what they saw but that's
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probably what they saw that's what I would have seen yeah now there are some good sources out there for this case and
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some questionable ones as well we know that with most of these cases that we cover I really like the stuff posted on
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a website called montanans for justice that is a fantastic way to do a deep dive into this case if you want to do
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that on your own then we have a friend of our little garage show Mr Barney Doyle Doyle knows
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this case quite well in fact it's the subject matter of a great chapter in his book titled Reckless speculation about
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murder and I was also able to dig up some pretty good newspaper articles from the Big Sky State and also from
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Louisiana which will play a factor into this whole case and you'll see why in a little bit
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so according to Greg and there is a good deal to to back up most of his story Greg says he dropped Kimberly off at
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home and then he went to the American Legion bar he says he told her he was going to the
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bar she asked him if he was mad at her he says that he told her no he said he saw Kim's pickup truck this
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is actually her father's pickup truck that she used quite a bit right parked in front of her house when he dropped
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her off he said he did not walk her to the door shortly after Greg leaves Kim she gets
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in this truck and she went out driving Kim was out cruising Poplar that night and was seen by multiple other teenagers
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who were doing the same thing according to at least two witnesses Kim was parked
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at the gas station sometime before 1am she was alone in her father's pickup truck
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one of those Witnesses saw the same pickup truck traveling west on Highway 2 at about 1am or a little after but
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couldn't tell how many people were in this truck at the time but they knew that it was Kimberly's truck well again
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this is 1979 right good old 1979. so you get home pretty late after the movie you're not
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going to be calling your friends because they probably have curfews back in the day you'd have a curfew you'd tell your
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friends don't call my house after nine makes my parents upset so 17 years old you're looking for
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something to do the only way to do that is to get in your car drive around drive
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past your friend's house try to find out where where people are hanging out for my understanding captain and you know
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again this is a very small town that there were a couple of things that seemed that were going on at the time
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like a lot of kids were out well past whatever their curfew would be set by their parents or by the town if the town
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even had a curfew for for juveniles I don't know at that time yeah and it also seemed to me like the American Legion
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bar was really a go-to spot if you were an adult and during the summer time when these
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seniors or keep in mind even though Kim is just 17 she's already graduated and she's working for her father so she
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doesn't have a whole lot of obligations and responsibilities until she goes off to college so a lot
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of these kids it seems like while their parents were out at the American Legion bar until the wee hours of the morning
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they were borrowing their parents vehicles and they would hang out and find places to hang out outside
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and a lot of them would go to there were a couple different clicks even though this was a small town small community
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but it sounds like one Community would one one click would hang out at one gas station kind of park and talk and then
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figure out places to go right and then the other click hung out at the other gas station yeah when I was in high
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school a bunch of people would hang out at a car wash and I was like nobody's washing their
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car that was just like the meet-up spot it was the parking lot between the big car wash and the bowling alley yeah and
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there was yeah there was a group that hung out there I didn't really care for that group so that was not a spot for me
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well yeah the group would change though but but also you worked at a pizza place
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and that was a go-to spot that was one of the Hangouts you just drive by to see see if somebody was there but also this
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is 19 again 1979. uh I'm guessing depending on what their laws were they would have been
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similar to what we had in Ohio which would would have meant that you didn't have to be 21 to get into a bar you
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could have been younger because they had three two beer at the time the drinking
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age would have been about 18 I believe possibly yeah I don't know I'm not very familiar with Montana at all other than
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I know it's very big and it takes a long time to drive from one side of it to the
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other now at about 4 15 a.m two Tribal Police Officers observed a truck parked by the train bridge at the Poplar
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River West of town just off of Highway 2. spoiler alert this is the truck that Kim was driving
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it was a popular spot for teenagers to park and hang out so the officers didn't really think much of it at that time
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right when the truck was still there at 7 A.M that morning the officers drove down to
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investigate this was now weird stuff for them the officers discovered blood and hair
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inside of the truck next to both the driver's side and the passenger side of the pickup there were what they called
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scuffle marks or believed to be scuffle marks where the dirt was kicked up approximately 10 feet from the passenger
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side of the truck was what appeared to be a blood spot and I've seen pictures of the old crime scene
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and it looked to me like this is a fairly significant blood spot it the word spot doesn't do it justice this
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this was a big a big marking you could see it from uh photos that were even taken at some decent distance away we're
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not going to have an extended cab or even like a quad cab because those just weren't that popular back in 79 so and
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this could have been a bench seat as well which would make it easier I think to attack in an individual inside the
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truck yeah this was a a smaller cab for any kind of pickup and as you pointed out the pickup trucks we have today
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quite big in size this was not that this was not of that manner at all now there were drag marks leading away
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from the truck these marks led the officers to the edge of the bank of the river
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I want to point this out here these drag marks were so significant that they were
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they were blatantly obvious to these officers and so much so that they were able to follow them like a trail of
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breadcrumbs all the way from the truck to the river this was not a quick little walk from the truck to the river this
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was quite some distance do we know how far I do it I do and we'll get to that I don't I don't have that just quite yet
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there at the the edge of the river the officers saw a body floating face up in the shallow water about 10 feet from the
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Lower River Bank this was the badly beaten body of 17 year old Kimberly niece now as Doyle
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explains in his book he says Poplar is a bit of a jurisdictional anomaly we already have officers from the Tribal
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Police Department on the scene but Poplar as we mentioned is in Roosevelt County so the Roosevelt County Sheriff's
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Office can investigate as well the Fort Peck reservation is federal land and the Bureau of Indian Affairs
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investigates most crimes on the reservations but the Federal Bureau of Investigation
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usually assists on anything as serious as a murder that's what we have here every one of those agencies got called
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in for the nice murder but when they're all there Captain it seemed like nobody really knew exactly who was
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in charge whose case was this consequently the scene got trampled evidence was contaminated
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now at the scene officers found that Kimberly's driver's side door was open but the passenger door was locked there
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were no keys in the truck the gear shift was in park the radio was on there were
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three gouge marks in the ceiling with hair hanging out of them and gouge marks on the steering wheel as well
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officers found a three foot crescent-shaped semi-circle of blood approximately 9 to 10 feet from the rear
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of the truck tire but there was no blood trail from the passenger side of the vehicle there were
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small spots of blood all around the exterior of the pickup well there's markings on the ceiling that but what's
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that term called where you have like a hammer and you and somebody strikes down and then as they pull back yeah you
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gotta pull back up yeah and that it seems like that's how those markings would happen inside that truck again
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that's a small cab of of the truck there was a sweater which belonged to Kim and her purse on
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the ground beside the passenger door there was a partial palm print and blood on the passenger side of the door
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if you've heard anything about this case if we would have titled this Kimberly niece we'd have a whole different
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audience chiming in and listening in for for this case this has been a very popular case
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in that neck of the woods for a long time and this palm print has been the topic of much debate ever since this
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murder took place so let's dive into this single piece of evidence this palm print often referred
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to as the unidentified palm print is as famous as this case is I mean you can talk you can't talk about the murder
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investigation of Kim nice without discussing this Palm permit so with the FBI's help they worked very diligently
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to identify the finger and palm prints found inside the truck cab and on the outside of the truck as well
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after getting prints from the niece family there were four members in this family they were able to identify both
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finger and palm prints found on the vehicle this is with the exception of two palm
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prints not one but two so it looks to me Captain from the court documentation that I was able to find that these two
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palm prints they do not match each other and neither have been matched to anyone
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all of this time even 40 years later and it doesn't match her boyfriend correct but even if it matched the
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boyfriend we could you can kinda we don't know when those palm prints were put there well they're in blood
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okay so okay so it's either during the the course of killing this poor young woman or immediately afterwards right
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when the while the blood is still wet and then did we get the identification of whose shoe is hanging out the night
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before before she went to the movies with her boyfriend we have that information we
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have that and it comes from from the boyfriend and and we'll see that in a bit but I wanted to make sure that we
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pointed out here the palm print doesn't match him as well it does not match him and he was a suspect he was somebody
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that was looked at really good in this case and I wanted to point out that we have two identif unidentified palm
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prints not just one you know the surface story tells you one there's actually two
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and the other thing though I want to point out here too I don't think this palm print just
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because it went it went unmatched to anybody potentially linked to this crime I don't think it actually clears anybody
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in my opinion because as said right there's no nice way of saying it the blood was still wet it might not be very
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accurate it may not have dried just as it was placed on the truck and because it's sorted sorry distorted it may not
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match anyone now from the truck to the riverbed you had asked about this Captain it was
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about 250 feet that's not that's not anywhere close and every bit of evidence we have
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suggests that every bit of the attack took place up by the truck and how much did she weigh
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well she was a smaller person I believe she was uh I would say about a hundred to no more than 115 pounds okay that's
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not that heavy so you would think an individual if there's two individuals that's not really that hard to move a
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body even though it's 250 feet the other you have two individuals 115 pounds it's not a lot
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so uh the the palm prints do you think that points to two individuals or or one because
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again uh like you just said if there's Distortion in the print maybe they're the same print but one is a little more
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distorted than the other the other thing that I wonder about too is if the attack took place inside the
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truck and outside of the truck why did it go down that way did she try to escape the truck or was
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she forced out of the truck either way one of the palm prints could belong to her to the victim right and it's just
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distorted right and as you pointed out if they're distorted they could belong to the same person to be honest with you
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I really don't know this this case is is very interesting to me because there's a good deal of possibilities I
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believe when looking at this thing now as said we got that distance from the truck to the riverbank 250 feet from
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there it was a steep 10 foot drop to the river in addition to the drag marks investigators also found spots of blood
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and hair along that trail the drag Mark Trail let's get into the autopsy captain
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forensic pathologist Dr John faff conducted the autopsy because this case has remained an ongoing story for so
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long some of the materials have found their way to the Public's reach I reviewed the 22-page autopsy report put
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together by the good doctor on Columbus Hospital of Great Falls Montana letterhead
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page one tells us a brief description of the injuries this poor young woman suffered there were multiple blunt force
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impact injuries involving the head and neck these are extensive skull fractures with contusions and lacerations to the
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brain multiple blunt force impact injuries involving the upper extremities mostly
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the hands so if you're doing a little mental Imaging here what does that tell us these are defensive wounds so she was
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aware of the attack she was attacked from the front and she's putting up her hands and arms attempting to defend
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herself [Music] foreign [Music] we're back cheers mates cheers to you Captain we are back to the Doom and
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Gloom that is the true crime world so Kimberly suffered a brutal beating death there were dozens of blows to the
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head with damage to the forehead and the right and left sides of the head Kim was
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dead before she was placed in the water and there was no evidence of a sexual assault the pathologist determined that
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the injuries were caused by a weapon but he could not initially determine what that weapon was he also noted that she
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was fully clothed when she was found there was no evidence of her being choked violently during this attack
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and there are several pages of the autopsy that are devoted to a hammer and crescent wrench diagrams so even though
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he could not determine exactly what the weapon was it seems like he had a decent
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idea of what it probably could have been a services for Kimberly were held on June 19th at the First Presbyterian
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Church in Poplar Montana a dive team searched the river and discovered a discarded Hammer but the
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doctor examined this Hammer compared it to the injuries and determined that the hammer was not used to kill Kimberly
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when the vehicle was returned to her father he was asked to check for anything that might be missing from the
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truck Kimberly's father looked through a toolbox in the back of the truck and determined that a 12-inch metal crescent
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wrench was missing the doctor compared that type of wrench to the injuries and determined that the
00:28:48
wrench could have caused some but not all of Kimberly's injury so now Captain we know that we have the use of at least
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two weapons in the commission of this homicide is that what it really means though or does it just mean that the
00:29:06
Crescent Ridge could be responsible for some but that's just could yes that's what he says he says that the the
00:29:13
crescent wrench could have caused some but not all of the injuries right what I'm saying is maybe there's a a
00:29:21
instrument out there that would be able to cause all of them that does not seem to be his findings
00:29:28
I see what you're saying that that if they're saying this one doesn't fit all of them right I I think what he's laying
00:29:35
out for us here is that he believes at least two different types different shapes of weapons were used during this
00:29:42
attack there's a lot of tools that have different ends yeah and there's a lot of weapons
00:29:49
there's a lot of a lot of things but it doesn't make a lot of sense to me if you're hitting somebody with possibly a
00:29:55
hammer or a crowbar or something like that that you would then stop remove that item and and then pick up a wrench
00:30:05
in the in the in the truck usually that does not occur you're correct usually somebody starts the job and finishes the
00:30:13
job with the same weapon that's in their hand we also most of us have two arms and two hands
00:30:19
um you could be armed with two different types of weapons the thing with the crescent wrench that we have to keep in
00:30:25
mind remember the bottom portion of a crescent wrench you can move it you can maneuver it up and down
00:30:31
so that's going to have a significantly different shape than some other types of
00:30:36
tools out there especially if if it is in fact you have that point now from where the the bottom portion of the I
00:30:45
don't you're getting you're getting me talking about uh parts of tools that I don't don't know the the terminology for
00:30:51
so but in regards to the the evidence that was collected again we have several agencies that were
00:31:00
at the scene no one knew who was in charge the result of this was evidence stored in different locations by
00:31:07
different agencies and over the years some of this would become lost contaminated and in some cases their
00:31:15
speculation of even maybe stolen or destroyed purposely destroyed evidence well think about this it's a very small
00:31:23
town right yes yes this is it was actually larger in population than than it is now
00:31:29
that's never a good sign if you're in a town that the population you're losing people every year something's going on
00:31:37
but this is like the Connecting Point like you said we have all these different uh departments working in this
00:31:45
case everybody probably knows everybody if you are not even the suspect but you are
00:31:52
the person responsible for this and you start hearing that different departments
00:31:57
have evidence wouldn't that be a lot easier to try to contaminate anything that they have
00:32:06
yeah yeah if you have if it's accessible to you yes the left hand wouldn't know what the right hand was doing you're
00:32:13
exactly right the investigators found and photographed numerous shoe Impressions at the scene but this was
00:32:20
done again after several law enforcement agencies were at the scene and moving about and looking and trying to find
00:32:27
evidence and figure out what was going on so it's easy to believe that most of these shoe impressions
00:32:35
I believe captain that they probably belong to law enforcement we saw this with the Nicole Brown Simpson case where
00:32:42
there was multiple shoe prints and they had to then go back and figure out which
00:32:46
shoe prints were law enforcement and which one were which ones were media and which ones were unidentified it's never
00:32:55
been determined in this case what shoe prints belonged to whom or shoe Impressions whatever you want to call it
00:33:02
belong to who so what we also have are items that were collected other items that may
00:33:10
or may not be even part of the case or crime at all you know these would be your typical items standard stuff like
00:33:18
beer cans trash cigarette butts and and different types of debris again this was
00:33:24
a hangout spot at that time for teenagers and young adults so probably a good deal of beer drinking went on down
00:33:33
there well we also have the truck to the river that's our whole scene that's 250
00:33:40
feet that's a quite a bit of an area to to have you know debris in that you're not going to know what what matches the
00:33:49
crime scene or not what I think is pretty neat in this situation is that the evidence at the crime scene really
00:33:57
does tell the story the evidence shows us how this murder took place we don't know exactly why Kim was in that
00:34:04
location near the Poplar river by the old train bridge did she drive there by herself or with
00:34:12
someone did she was she intending to meet someone there did someone take her there against her
00:34:18
will that part we don't know but we know that she was there her truck was there this was the location that Kim had been
00:34:25
to before she had been to this location before that night so she was familiar with this area
00:34:32
and so more likely she probably went there either with someone or was meeting someone in my mind maybe even a group of
00:34:41
people Plus she's a teenager and many times okay if she's gonna meet some people there
00:34:49
we do have we don't have any evidence of that we don't have any friends coming forward and saying that she was supposed
00:34:55
to meet us there again we don't have phone records of that oh I I don't think that's something
00:35:02
that we should assume I think one of the things that we do have evidence of was she was at the gas station by herself
00:35:10
that we have multiple eyewitnesses that saw her driving around that night by herself
00:35:18
it's very possible if this is a local hangout that you get one or two guys that that go to that
00:35:27
area and again like I said before you remember how it was on a Friday night if you didn't make plans or you didn't hear
00:35:36
about the party you drove around in a car and you went from house to house you know well let's go to this buddy's house
00:35:44
and see what's going on I mean you might like run into their parents oh well he said he was going over to this guy's
00:35:50
house so you're like okay we'll head there and then once you get there like oh well
00:35:54
they actually took off and went down you know what I mean so I I just it seems like
00:36:01
she got in this argument with her boyfriend and then he was like well I'm going to
00:36:06
go to the bar and she she wasn't okay with just staying at home so it looks like she was going around
00:36:13
trying to figure out what to do it's very possible that she could have came up to that spot just to see if
00:36:20
anybody was there that she knew and then ran into trouble well that's why I say I think she either
00:36:29
went there with somebody or with the intention of meeting somebody whether that was a plan to meet
00:36:37
someone or just her hoping that other people were there right right and I say that because thinking back to my youth
00:36:44
you know we didn't we weren't able to text people and go hey what are you doing tonight hey what are you doing
00:36:48
tonight no you if you got off work I remember plenty of times if I got off work at 11 12 o'clock at night if it was
00:36:54
a Friday Saturday I had three three or four spots that I knew I could do it take me five minutes to
00:37:02
drive by all three or four of these spots and I might find a handful of my buddies chilling at one of these spots I
00:37:07
mean finster's garage comes to mind right I mean that was was my go-to that's where I hope to find people but
00:37:15
regardless the other thing that I do want to point out too though the reason why I believe that though
00:37:22
Captain is because I don't think if someone abducted her or took control of her and
00:37:30
her vehicle and decided that they were they had murder in mind or rape and mind this doesn't seem to me like an ideal
00:37:39
spot to go to again it's a known Hangout you don't take somebody that you're planning to do something like that to to
00:37:47
that spot yeah again I'm going to disagree because well you people people could already be there or somebody could
00:37:55
happen upon you during the commission of your attack you you know the area it's a
00:38:00
small area it's a town of 800 right some people but what we're not privy to is how long did people hang out at this
00:38:09
spot you could drive 15 minutes in any direction and be out in the middle of nowhere
00:38:15
From Poplar Montana right I understand that but what I'm saying is like the car wash for example that people hung out
00:38:23
you weren't going to see people there at 12 o'clock or one o'clock you know I mean like you'd see people
00:38:29
from maybe at nine people would be starting to hang out maybe you'd see some people by 11. you're you're
00:38:37
forgetting the statements of the police officers that said they saw the truck at
00:38:40
4am thought nothing of it because they knew teenagers hung out there it's one car
00:38:46
I don't know I I just I think it's not a bad spot you're 20 you know you're 250 feet from uh a great
00:38:57
spot to dump a body well regardless the the river which is going to wash away tons of evidence
00:39:05
regardless of our our thoughts and feelings what we do know is that some of the attack took place in the truck some
00:39:11
of the attack took place outside of the truck she was hit many times with at least two hard objects used as Weapons
00:39:19
she was dragged down to the River's Edge this over 200 feet away there is about 10 or so feet of a steep embankment to
00:39:29
the actual water someone pushed her over and she rolled down this embankment her killer or Killers then went down the
00:39:38
embankment and pushed Kim they had to physically push her into the water she was found face up and she had mud on
00:39:46
her from the embankment the keys to the truck were not located at the scene even though they were found
00:39:54
even though they found her purse the murder weapons were not found so we have two palm prints that don't match that
00:40:04
kind of points in the direction of killers instead of killer possible multiple instruments used as
00:40:14
weapons that points towards killers not killer the fact that it's 250 feet yes she's not that heavy but it'd be a
00:40:24
lot easier to move her with two individuals like you said there's a steep in embankment
00:40:31
there's a lot that that points to again I even think the attack inside the truck and outside the truck makes sense
00:40:42
like I'm going to get in and you're going to go around to the other side because this is also in the middle of
00:40:49
nowhere you think depending on how she was attacked if she was fighting back she has a lot of defensive wounds that
00:40:55
there would be a possibility that she'd be able to get out and run or or do something a lot harder to get away from
00:41:03
two individuals there's just a lot that points to to two instead of one it does where my mind
00:41:12
goes to though is if you got two full-size males as the attackers I don't I don't understand why the the drag
00:41:22
marks I think you'd be able to move her without that that much of a trail yeah yeah I
00:41:29
agree so let's go back to Kim's boyfriend Greg did he really drop her off as said well
00:41:35
yes we we know this for several reasons first Kim took her father's truck and drove it into town this is
00:41:41
n't out of character we have more than one person who says they saw Kim sitting alone in the truck parked at the gas
00:41:49
station investigators learned right away about some troubles between Greg and Kim as we
00:41:54
pointed out the two they they lived just a couple of houses away from each other
00:42:01
now late on that afternoon of June 15th Greg says that he saw Kim arriving home he spoke with her and she looked tired
00:42:10
this is where he becomes aware of her hanging out with this other guy he says hey why do you look so tired she says
00:42:16
well I was out driving around till 4 30 in the morning the previous night with another guy his name is Steve shagin
00:42:24
Greg was in his words this is his exact words a little pissed about this but they were going to stick to their plan
00:42:33
and go out on the date as well as said before the date Greg went to the store to buy some beer and
00:42:41
this this is where you start getting that whole small town story that whole small town mix going on
00:42:49
when he's at the store buying beer he sees Steve's girlfriend and Greg decides to inform Steve's girlfriend her name is
00:42:57
Susie Kern about what went down what a dick I don't mind doing that at all I mean I just think it's funny that he saw
00:43:07
her and he went yeah I'm going to ruin her night well he probably doesn't trust the Steve guy and wants her to know what
00:43:14
what Steve's been up to as well well I know and I understand that I know that he's just trying to inform her but it's
00:43:20
just like he just ruined her night well that be it as it may that's what happened they went to the movie theater
00:43:28
the drive-in theater this was around 8 30 after the movie he says they drove around for a little bit and then he took
00:43:35
her home dropping her off somewhere between midnight and 12 30 A.M he said he was going to to the bar now
00:43:43
multiple Witnesses all said they saw and interacted with Greg when he was at the
00:43:51
legion Club bar that night right these Witnesses include but are not limited to several members of Greg's family and
00:43:58
some of Greg's friends but also Kim's parents as well he sees them there and talks with them
00:44:05
he told investigators that he leaves this bar around 1 30 a.m and drove around town a few times looking to see
00:44:12
if Kim was out driving so this on the surface to me seemed a little weird why would he just drive
00:44:19
around town looking to see if Kim was out driving even I thought it was even a little weird even knowing that she was
00:44:25
out driving the night before he says this is because he just saw her parents at the bar and they've known
00:44:32
each other for a long time he knows that when her parents are out late at night that Kim would go out late at night
00:44:41
so he drives by her house after driving around he doesn't see her drives by her house and confirms that she was in fact
00:44:50
gone by seeing the truck was gone at this time yeah I mean let's be honest he's he's trying to catch her in the ACT
00:44:58
if she's driving around with another guy he then goes to a pay phone and decides
00:45:03
to call Kim's house Kim's mother now home answered the phone and Greg asked if Kim was home at that time Kim's
00:45:13
mother said that she was not she asked if Greg would drive around and look for Kim
00:45:18
at about 1 45 a.m Greg called Catherine Moe from the same pay phone according to
00:45:26
Greg he called Catherine after speaking to Kim's mother he called because he wanted Catherine to come out that night
00:45:31
and he does say to the officers he's upfront about this partly he wanted to make Kim jealous if he happened to see
00:45:39
Kim out driving around with somebody else he was hoping she would see him out driving with something gotcha that's
00:45:47
what you'd say two can play at this game according to Catherine Greg spoke very casually and never really said why he
00:45:57
called she said that he did not sound drunk and he didn't mention anything about Kim niece during the call but when
00:46:05
questioned by police Catherine also added that Greg had never called her before and the call was not expected in
00:46:12
fact Greg told Catherine that he got her number from information there are some reports out there there that say these
00:46:19
two that they dated in the past I'm not clear where anybody gets that information or where that came from I'm
00:46:28
not saying that it's not true I'm just saying that in statements that Catherine Moe and her mother and her mother two
00:46:35
statements given to police both of them said that Greg had never called this girl before and we see how much activity
00:46:42
is going on on the phone between all these different people and different families you would think if they did in
00:46:48
fact actually date previously that there would have been some kind of phone calls
00:46:53
Greg says that he drove around until approximately 2 45 a.m or maybe 3 A.M he then gave up and went home and he went
00:47:01
directly to bed he does say that he never went by the train bridge that night now remember Steve
00:47:10
and his girlfriend yeah Susie Kern they were out together the night of June 15 and they remembered seeing Greg and Kim
00:47:19
together early that evening which makes sense Steve says later he saw Kimberly alone
00:47:25
in her truck parked at the gas station around 12 30 or 1 a.m he also says that he saw Greg's Mustang parked at the
00:47:34
legion Club at about 1 30 A.M I go through all of that just to point out that a big chunk of Greg's story is
00:47:43
matching up with not only what he's telling police but with what other Witnesses are separately individually
00:47:49
telling the police and their statements right and and who's the information coming from I think that's important
00:47:55
yeah because if there's no need for Kim's parents to Aid him there's no need for Steve to Aid his story yeah if
00:48:04
anything those are the two suspects right off the bat right well Kim's parents are the
00:48:11
ones or the or the victims you know they have they have more skin in the game than anybody when it comes to nailing
00:48:16
somebody for the murder of their daughter right but what I'm saying with with Steve he's going hey I I saw his
00:48:22
car right you know so I have uh I believe there's a lot of weight to those um uh eyewitness accounts yeah so then
00:48:33
here's where things take a turn Okay because really what we have very early on is police looking at Greg norgaard as
00:48:43
their number one suspect he's the boyfriend he was out late Kim's out late out late as well they knew that there
00:48:50
was a disagreement between the two they're looking at Greg but officers canvassed the homes in the vicinity of
00:48:57
the train bridge looking for potential Witnesses well they find a woman named Roberta
00:49:03
clincher she tells deputies that she did not hear anything unusual that morning but her
00:49:10
teenage son Barry Beach had returned home early that morning and he was covered in blood
00:49:18
oh my God that's not good either not good Bob the beach family does they lived near Kim niece's family to be
00:49:28
honest with you most the people in the story lived quite close to one another Barry said that the blood came from
00:49:35
punching his car in frustration after it got stuck in the sand at a swimming hole
00:49:42
I'd say let me see your knuckles well here's where the story starts to get wonky the the investigation the case
00:49:51
and everything I mean we already have a contaminated crime scene and missing evidence and Scattered evidence really
00:49:57
amongst different jurisdictional custody he's going to get Willy Wonky right later
00:50:05
this woman denies saying any of this and what we will learn is that the deputy that took the statement or or spoke with
00:50:12
this woman as he claims did not write down any kind of report about this claim he says that he notified the sheriff
00:50:22
immediately about this information um and then they took it from there Barry Beach
00:50:30
well he's even tied more closely to the victim he dated Kimberly's younger sister Pam
00:50:37
Beach was 17 years old at the time of Kim's death and lived a few hundred yards away from the train bridge he
00:50:45
moved to Louisiana to live with his father and his stepmother not too long after Kim's death he was police did
00:50:53
speak with him a couple times before he moved away right the initial suspects as
00:50:58
you can see are the boyfriend Gary norgaard and now Barry Beach both were interviewed several times both denied
00:51:06
any involvement and investigators never found any direct evidence linking either
00:51:12
to the crime at this stage of the investigation well today check out Barry Beach's car to see if there's any dings
00:51:20
or dents that they put in when he punched the car well his statement about punching the car is backed up by two
00:51:26
witnesses and the way that this story works is that he I think he had a Ford Rancho Ranchero
00:51:34
I'm trying to think it I I wasn't born when these vehicles were around but it was still with Rancho because it's just
00:51:41
better Ranchero I think is actually that's probably what it is but banjo is great which it was kind of cool Captain
00:51:47
because it's a like an El Camino it's a it's a car in the front and truck in the
00:51:52
back business in front party in the back no it's I think that's a party in the front and work in the back if it's a El
00:52:01
Camino but it sounds like something you'd buy at Taco Bell that's three o'clock in the morning give me a couple
00:52:07
of rancheros I'm gonna pick up three on my way home from the garage he says that him and two friends this is
00:52:16
another couple went to go swimming and this is uh very Beach yeah and this is where his his story and it's backed up
00:52:25
by these two friends the interesting thing though is he's dating the younger sister at the time
00:52:31
Pam he asked her to go swimming she does not go swimming that day he Parks his vehicle
00:52:40
and anybody that knows like an El Camino or any types of these vehicles they're they're not super high up off of the
00:52:47
ground they're kind of low to the ground he Parks it and he got it stuck in the sand
00:52:53
and he's a young dude he doesn't know any better he's trying to get it out of the sand and instead of using his brain
00:52:59
tries to muscle It Out by room back and forth back and forth back and forth right
00:53:04
and he ends up blowing out the transmission trying to get it out of the sand in aggravation he gets pissed he yells
00:53:13
at his friends he punches the vehicle he kicks it um just really just you know dumb
00:53:20
teenage stuff that you're like oh why did I really bloody myself hurt my hand and ding up my vehicle out of out of
00:53:27
just being something that I could fix later Barry beach sounds like very [ __ ] well interestingly enough there was also
00:53:34
a rumor going around town that a group of teenage girls killed Kimberly nice the investigation went nowhere
00:53:43
productive for about a year and a half but that makes sense though too because even if there was two
00:53:51
Killers but they're both female drag marks right the defensive wounds I I would like to know
00:54:03
and they probably know as far as like the autopsy goes but like how how deep some of these wounds were and
00:54:10
they could normally they could and now they can maybe they couldn't back then but they could tell you the force of the
00:54:17
trauma the pressure the pounds per pressure or whatever they usually can do that when somebody's only struck a
00:54:23
couple of times the problem when you have repeated blows over and over again and I apologize for having to say this
00:54:29
but there's no nice way of saying it the more you hit something over and over again in the same spot the more right
00:54:34
deeper the impact becomes and she was as said in the autopsy report hit dozens of
00:54:40
times in the head the as as we were talking about Captain the investigation really goes nowhere
00:54:48
for about a year and a half and then in a very weird turn of events this is in February of 1981.
00:54:57
Kim's great uncle he's a former state senator Stanley niece he's murdered Stanley niece was 77 at
00:55:08
the time and he had a lady friend that was renting a room from him the way that this goes down is
00:55:16
investigators found the bodies of three people at niece's home it was Stanley niece it was the woman renting the room
00:55:25
from him and her friend it appeared that the three were shot in the basement of the home while watching TV and baking
00:55:35
cookies this is a small town as we've pointed out time and time again murder is not a
00:55:42
common thing in this town at all right and the sheriff frustrated that they have no answers in the Kim niece case
00:55:50
now her great uncle former state senator is killed he says to the paper you know
00:55:57
he's asked is there any chance that these crimes are related and he said look we don't have any information or
00:56:04
evidence at this time mind you this is the day that they find the bodies that these two events are connected but
00:56:13
he says I hope that they are that might give us some type of lead in the Kim niece case that has now gone cold yeah
00:56:22
something that they're missing from the first case that only makes sense by connecting the murders
00:56:28
right the three of these victims were killed on February 25th this was determined by
00:56:37
scientific evidence found at the crime scene the bodies were not found until the following day on the 26th of
00:56:43
February but it gets even weirder Captain because in March in early March we have an arrest that is made in this
00:56:55
case of the three individuals killed in the basement what they did was they linked the bullet
00:57:03
casings and bullets that were used to kill these three victims to spent shell casings that were found in the
00:57:11
possession of an individual this individual lived next door to Stanley nice they determined that these bullets were
00:57:21
all fired from the same gun the same gun that killed these three people at some point was in the possession of this
00:57:29
person now this person who is he well oddly enough his name is William norgaard he's 26 years old at the time
00:57:38
next door neighbor to Stanley niece Kim's great uncle and he's the older brother of Kim's one-time boyfriend Greg
00:57:49
norgaard the strange thing about this as much as you want to look into it and go
00:57:56
this has got to be connected these two things have all got to be connected and somehow in some manner
00:58:04
it actually appears that they may not have been unfortunately William norgaard was a
00:58:10
very he had a he had a lot of problems and he struggled through a lot of issues for a
00:58:16
long long time he spent the majority of his life in and out of hospitals for being treated for physical ailments as
00:58:25
well as psychiatric treatment he was quite unstable and he there's some discrepancy either he was on new
00:58:35
meds at the time or off of his meds at the time of these of this triple homicide
00:58:41
but what happened was we know that he was home there was something going on with his medication at the time and he
00:58:48
had developed this weird obsession with Stanley niece and the the financial situation of his parents
00:58:58
and it's believed that he thought or held Stanley knee somewhat accountable for the financial problems that his
00:59:05
parents were experiencing and decided to attack the old man and gun down him as well as these two people
00:59:13
as well we have William norgaard who's sentenced to 300 years in prison they have in Montana at the time anyway what
00:59:22
is referred to as dangerous offender status and they gave that to this young man who really was
00:59:30
I've reviewed this pretty well because I thought there had to be some kind of connection I even wondered if maybe if
00:59:37
if William norgaard was involved or responsible for the killing of Kimberly niece
00:59:43
but this this kid was I say kid he was 26 when he was convicted I'm talking years and years of treatment
00:59:52
documentation to show that he was treated for this for 12 13 years prior to these homicides and unfortunately he
01:00:02
very likely in my opinion should not have been sentenced to prison for this he may not
01:00:09
even understand what it is that he did or understand right from wrong and this young man took his own life while he was
01:00:16
in prison this was in December of 1984. foreign [Music] thanks for telling a friend if you need
01:00:35
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01:00:59
everyone to join us back here in the garage tomorrow until then be good be kind and don't live
01:01:08
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