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[Music] [Applause] % [Music] welcome to True Crime garage wherever you are whatever you are doing thanks
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it's right now what time is it it's right now all right that's enough of the business everybody gather around grab a
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chair grab a beer let's talk some true [Music] crime now that the table is all set
00:03:58
let's sip through the evidence and see if we can come up with a better explanation regarding the death of
00:04:03
detective sudor so there was some audio and then some video evidence in this case the difficult thing in this case is
00:04:11
information and facts seem to have come out in little nuggets here and there and
00:04:16
it really just leaves you wondering if you have heard the whole story so we've compiled this and tried to put it
00:04:23
together in a presentation that makes the most sense regarding the surveillance footage this was taken from
00:04:29
a private video camera attached to the food Mark convenience store on Bennett Place the police have relied on the
00:04:37
private camera in the past for footage and photos of suspects in this rough neighborhood just like seemingly every
00:04:44
other piece of surveillance footage we've seen in other cases the time stamp on this video is off it was later
00:04:50
revealed to be off by 11 hours the footage has been analyzed and overanalyzed and picked apart by the
00:04:57
media and the public to be be clear what it shows I really think is open to interpretation for one thing the video
00:05:06
is taken from across the street and way down the block any human F figures visible are small and the video has
00:05:14
areas that appear to be out of focus or or or smudged but here is what the video
00:05:19
shows according to the Baltimore Police Department and mind you this is taken from a statement before they release the
00:05:26
video to the public they say that the video shows detective sudor and banka they are at Bennett Place near the
00:05:35
entrance to the vacant lot now we lose sight of banka who is wearing a light tan trench coat and is distinguishable
00:05:43
from the dark suited Suitor a DOT and I I describe this as a DOT because that's what it looks like to me a DOT that may
00:05:51
be suor is seen standing behind a white van parked on Bennett Place walking around described as pacing back and
00:05:58
forth what happens next is very unclear but according to the official Baltimore Police Department position what we see
00:06:06
is sudor pacing back and forth behind the van and then suddenly darting into the vacant lot with his radio in his
00:06:13
left hand and his gun in his right then shots rang out now the video from what I
00:06:20
could find does not have sound so we can only guess that this is when the shots rang out and we see banko running across
00:06:28
the street away from the lot to take cover specifically the whole episode between sud running into the lot and
00:06:34
Bowa running took about 8 seconds or less the vacant lot where sud's body was found is not in the line of sight of the
00:06:43
camera we are informed later that banka had been on Schroeder street right around the corner when the shots were
00:06:51
fired and he did not see what happened according to the Baltimore Police Department's interpretation there is no
00:06:58
perpetrator seen on the video footage although others argue that that's debatable then we have two witnesses two
00:07:07
eyewitnesses who do not wish to be identified but they told WB TV 11 news that they saw Sutter's partner banka
00:07:19
walking on the sidewalk to an opening when gunfire rang out the second witness told the same news station that after
00:07:28
the gunfire he he saw Suitor partner in a Crouch position with his gun drawn the
00:07:34
witness said the partner then ran through the crime scene and into Bennett place so if the two eyewitnesses are
00:07:41
reliable and if what's been disclosed by the police department about the contents
00:07:47
of the surveillance footage is accurate then detective banka could not have been
00:07:52
the shooter who killed Shawn according to banka he called 911 on his phone and then went to the vacant
00:08:00
lot to check on his partner so what is strange here by this whole account is that banka did not have his radio on him
00:08:09
right he had to use his cell phone to call for backup Police Dispatch sent out a signal 13 an emergency call that means
00:08:17
urgent officer down this took place at 4:36 p.m. police dispatchers initially radioed quote caller reporting his
00:08:26
partner got shot no description of the suspect no further end quote interestingly this directly contradicts
00:08:35
a statement we know commissioner Davis made about the suspect being a black man in a black and white jacket this
00:08:41
statement by Davis about the suspect seen by Bano was released later on the night of the shooting but dispatch was
00:08:49
not notified of any description in the initial 911 call and in fact was told there was not a description but then an
00:08:57
hour after the shooting a dispatcher issued Ed a Citywide bolo be on the lookout for a black male with white
00:09:04
sleeves and a knit baseball cap so this video the long version is about an hour and 10 minutes I'm not going to post
00:09:10
that version but there is a shorter version where they zoom in where they believe the detective was detective
00:09:18
Suitor was so I will post that on our website at True Crime garage we also have commissioner Davis who revealed
00:09:26
that there was a brief two or three second unintelligible transmission from detective Suitor radio it conveyed that
00:09:35
he was quote clearly in distress said Davis sutor is heard to shout something and it was confirmed by his peers that
00:09:44
it was likely suter's voice in this bit of audio and there's a loud sound that could be possibly a gunshot and then
00:09:53
silence and when he was found sudor was still holding his radio in his left hand
00:09:59
commissioner Davis elaborated that the body cam footage from officers responding to the scene showed that suor
00:10:05
radio never left his hand responding officers wearing body cameras turned sudor over and found him to be in grave
00:10:13
condition after sending sudor off to the hospital in a law enforcement vehicle officer's first concern was the
00:10:20
possibility that the shots came from a nearby building banka said he heard multiple gunshots but was not able to
00:10:28
detect their Orin and when he ran to sud's side there was no suspect in sight this is confirmed by
00:10:35
the audio recordings of the police dispatch calls in one of the radio Transmissions the officer on the scene
00:10:43
says we still have a possible armed per here officer was not able to speak on where it came from meaning the gunshots
00:10:51
we don't know if it was on foot in the rear alley or from one of the houses near the window we're not sure so so the
00:10:59
block was placed on lock down while officers searched for the shooter in the many nearby vacant buildings as we know
00:11:06
it remained on lockd down for 6 days while the police department investigated meanwhile we know that someone drove
00:11:12
suor to the shock trauma center got into an accident and sutor was transferred to
00:11:17
an ambulance despite this Dr Thomas Scalia physician and chief at the shock trauma unit told the son later that any
00:11:26
delay in getting sutor to the hospital did not impact his condition some more details
00:11:33
the bullet entered behind his right ear and traveled forward exiting from his left temple this fact raised all sorts
00:11:40
of questions was it possible that he was wrestling with an attacker and had his arm twisted around behind his ear and
00:11:49
the gun went off how did the bullet get lodged into the dirt ground was sudor on
00:11:55
the ground when he was shot that would explain the dirt some of the dirt that was was found on his clothing right but
00:12:01
interestingly no mention has ever been made of the whereabouts of the other two bullets now we know that they were fired
00:12:10
from Sutter's gun but where are they as far as we know they've never been located so we have yes we have the
00:12:17
bullet casings but no bullets all right Captain I think that we need to dive into the suicide Theory
00:12:25
as I think this Theory might be the biggest and most complicated of the theories put forth the suicide Theory I
00:12:31
think has the most layers to it one layer and a very thick one I might add is when sud was subpoena to testify
00:12:38
against his fellow officers he possibly would be incriminating himself in illegal activity as well also some of
00:12:46
the disgraced task force members named 12 additional officers in the Baltimore Police Force who were in on the take
00:12:54
these additional officers allegedly either participated in the committing of crime crimes helped cover them up or
00:13:00
enjoyed some of the proceeds and some of these were higher ups one of those named
00:13:06
was the head of the Baltimore Police Department's Internal Affairs Division and Davis's number two man on the force
00:13:13
one was an assistant State's Attorney and one was detective Shan suder now detective gondo who we talked about
00:13:21
yesterday asserted specifically that Shan Suter had for a decade participated in stealing money with the task force
00:13:28
members and other corrupt members of the Baltimore Police Department right he also said that sudor knowingly planted
00:13:35
the heroin in Umar burley's vehicle despite all commissioner Davis's repeated assertions that sha sudor was
00:13:42
clean as a whistle the news that he had been named as corrupt as well as the other pieces of evidence about his
00:13:50
killing it was his own gun it was a close- contact wound no one saw a perpetrator may suggest that sudo
00:13:59
actually killed himself Steven shanning the acting us attorney said people had suggested sudor was complicit in
00:14:07
misconduct but said quote will never know what he knew because he's not here to speak to the
00:14:14
circumstances so was it possible that sudor was crooked and did he not want that truth to emerge tarnishing his
00:14:23
reputation ending his career Landing him in prison and shaming and impoverishing
00:14:28
his family it is possible in other words that sudor staged his own suicide to look like he was killed in action not
00:14:37
being able to face his own downfall hence why there's three shots from his gun so this has happened before
00:14:44
specifically in 2015 a Fox Lake Illinois Lieutenant carefully staged his death to
00:14:50
look like he was killed in the line of duty but actually killed himself after stealing from a youth program he oversaw
00:14:58
this guy bezel thousands of dollars over 7 years and spent it on mortgage payments travel gym memberships among
00:15:04
other things but the walls were closing in and he knew he was about to be nailed
00:15:09
for his crimes right on the day he died he was on duty he radioed that he was chasing three suspects in a swampy area
00:15:17
near Fox Lake north of Chicago backup officers later found his body about 50 yards from his squad car his death set
00:15:25
off a huge Manhunt involving hundreds of officers the search involved multiple law enforcement agencies and ended up
00:15:32
costing over $300,000 in overtime and other expenses authorities said the officer was shot with his own gun and
00:15:40
took elaborate steps to try to make it look like he died in a struggle including shooting himself twice in the
00:15:47
Torso through his vest the suspects were never found investigators finally reached the conclusion of suicide which
00:15:55
was vehemently opposed by his family including his four children right who said the officer never once thought of
00:16:02
taking his own life and spoke excitedly and often about what he planned to do after retirement right you can't deny
00:16:11
that there are parallels between that case and that of Shan suder well yeah but one one thing that is not parallel
00:16:19
is that shooter has another detective with him so even if you Fire Two Shots maybe thinking that you're going to stun
00:16:28
the other detective and he's going to look away or take cover now you have seconds to then make it look like you
00:16:35
struggled with somebody and shoot yourself at the same time mhm so that that's a big difference and a lot of
00:16:43
stuff regarding the sutor case from within the department thoughts and theories from within the department
00:16:49
didn't come out until 2018 because apparently several of the initial investigators on the suor case
00:16:56
came to the conclusion that he may have killed himself this being as early as a month after his death right the
00:17:04
Baltimore Sun reported that month that officials inside the Baltimore Police Department itself were divided about
00:17:11
where the evidence in the case pointed them to and again we have commissioner Davis who continued to endorse the
00:17:17
homicide Theory and then others lean toward suicide as the most likely explanation by March of 2018 the AP
00:17:25
described sutor death as a baffling who done it with evidence pointing in two different directions murder verse
00:17:33
suicide sud's family of course insists that the suicide theory is absurd they maintain that he was a happy father of
00:17:41
five who would never have left his children his uncle this is Sherman basil mentioned that sudor was eagerly looking
00:17:48
forward to a peaceful retirement this is just 7 years away away and he had recently made plans to visit his uncle
00:17:56
in DC with his extended family over the Christmas holidays well okay I don't I don't mean to stop you in your tracks
00:18:03
here but even with the last case the the officer that took his life because he stole money mhm if it if it is true that
00:18:12
detective sudor was taking money here's these here's what I have a problem is when everybody goes well he was a happy
00:18:19
man and he didn't talk about any depression and he was looking forward to retirement did he also tell you about
00:18:25
the money he was stealing right fact that he was yeah he didn't right and we and he didn't in the
00:18:32
first case and so this is this is evidence that you don't know everything about this individual M I mean you you
00:18:40
have to know that that's evidence that they're hiding something I just want to put that out there well and we didn't
00:18:46
get into the thick of this yesterday so I think we should now because as you pointed out there are possibly more
00:18:54
motivating factors for a possible suicide sudor had five children his salary was reportedly 78,000 a year
00:19:03
right if he died in the line of duty his family stood to receive hundreds of thousands of dollars in lumpsum payouts
00:19:10
of federal and state benefits right a pension giving his widow his annual salary for life and I actually saw one
00:19:19
report that states it would be tax-free for the course of her life was that's good though it should be tax there would
00:19:26
also be workers compensation as well as any possible life insurance that they had okay
00:19:33
so is that it on those facts well I I think let's go into these benefits just go ahead I have a question for you okay
00:19:42
what does he get if he goes to jail how much they how much does the police department pay his
00:19:48
family uh he wouldn't get they I don't know this to be 100% fact but I have to believe it would be zero
00:19:58
right it's probably zero right you don't get to go to jail and they go hey we're
00:20:02
going to pay your family money mhm or hey what's what's the benefits that your family gets if you go to jail zero right
00:20:11
so you know that that becomes a difficult thing you know that seems to me like such a big motive and then on
00:20:20
the other side of things you go well of course the I I don't believe that that his wife
00:20:27
is arguing that he didn't kill himself because she wants money but that has to play a
00:20:32
factor in this that she would have a motive to keep that fight going does that make sense oh yeah I mean you you
00:20:40
got to question everything we're question if we're questioning Shan sudor motivation right if and what may have
00:20:47
actually happened it's fair to question hers as well right but then we have to question somebody else's motive as well
00:20:53
mhm because if the police department is saying hey look at first first we're looking for a suspect white jacket black
00:21:01
and white jacket black man this is what we're looking for we're shutting down a whole neighborhood and
00:21:08
then all of a sudden you go hey hey this cop wasn't dirty well maybe the cop was
00:21:15
dirty this is what they're saying M there's the there's a suspect no there's not a suspect uh sudor wasn't dirty oh
00:21:24
he was dirty and you're and you're going to tell me now we don't know if we have
00:21:29
a shooter and now we think that he killed himself well guess who doesn't have to pay anything out if he killed
00:21:36
himself the police department so and I understand that it's not coming directly from their
00:21:42
pockets but you know I've never been a part of those budget meetings and trust me I I know some people that have and
00:21:51
they're not pretty yeah but I should you know I want to include this because my take on this whole story is while you
00:21:59
have some investigators saying that hey there are there were some things that pointed to a possible
00:22:05
suicide I don't believe it was their their um 100% put our stamp on it position that he did commit suicide and
00:22:13
I mean that being coming directly from the Baltimore Police Department I don't I don't see them trying to spin this in
00:22:22
that direction uh at this point in our in our story in the case that appears to me to be speculation
00:22:31
they're still treating this as a homicide but these are just possible motivating factors for another
00:22:39
possibility of suicide and as mentioned so one of the um benefits the largest benefit that would be available to
00:22:49
families of Fallen law law enforcement officers this would come from the US justice department it's a program that
00:22:56
provides 30 $150,000 in payout and it also pays out for higher education tuition assistance for his
00:23:06
children so that money is not available if he was a dirty cop or if it was determined that his death was caused by
00:23:17
his own intention so in other words if Shan Suter killed himself many of those benefits to his family would be
00:23:25
drastically reduced if not removed all together well and do you know how much money these kids would get for college
00:23:32
assistance I mean do you know how much it is to get a computer degree this in these day and age trillions of dollars
00:23:41
right trillions and I I've actually seen different reports regarding what the tuition assistance would would have been
00:23:47
for his children right um anything from you know the the whole bill is paid to um you know a small amount paid annually
00:23:57
well and I'm joking about the trillions but I mean higher education now I mean the price is
00:24:04
ridiculous well so if he did commit suicide how would this have worked if this is in fact what happened if Shan
00:24:12
suder did kill himself we can only wonder when he made the decision to do such a thing and how much planning went
00:24:18
into it for one thing there are reports that shooter sudor I'm sorry requested banka to work with him that day being a
00:24:27
junior part partner so Bano was kind of low on the totem pole as far as these homicide investigators go he was only in
00:24:34
the homicide division for five months perhaps banko was more likely to follow Sutter's Direction leaving his side to
00:24:43
enter the vacant lot on the schroer street side and there would be no witnesses to what happened right one
00:24:50
thing we got to point out here is while they were tracking down this quote unquote lead this possible lead in an
00:24:58
unsolved homicide sud was directing himself that day he wasn't he wasn't being directed
00:25:05
by a higher up as to where to go that day he was choosing where to go and some have pointed out that him knowing that
00:25:13
it was an abandoned neighborhood you know a a bad place a bad part of town right that this might be a good place to
00:25:21
Stage a murder stage his murder and but what's weird here is that we have on video footage looking odd almost as as
00:25:32
if he's paying attention to somebody mhm and then he goes into this alley we got
00:25:38
three gunshots mhm so you go you fire randomly and then put one in the back of your head
00:25:46
mhm and then where does the gun fall the gun Falls underneath him as he falls now I'm not so worried about where
00:25:54
they found the where they found the bullet right and the reason why is because I
00:26:00
don't think necessarily that sudor has to place himself on the ground to get the bullet where it was the bullet could
00:26:08
have ricocheted off of anything and fell you know what I mean well I I'm with you on the the finding of the
00:26:16
bullet the location of the bullet that killed him I think you could argue it both ways one it could indicate that he
00:26:24
turned his gun on himself or that he was involved in a struggle and he ended up toward the ground or facing the ground
00:26:31
or on the ground right and was was killed by you know a gunman who got away right now but what's weird to me though
00:26:39
is this the struggle it also could have been he's pulling his trigger himself and the struggle happens where
00:26:49
his arm goes then behind his head think about like if a guy got behind him put him in a half Nelson mhm then his arm
00:26:57
struggling and maybe he goes to fire thinking he's going to shoot him and ends up shooting himself in the head I
00:27:03
think what we do have though is you know we have ballistic evidence to to know if
00:27:09
it came from his gun which I'm assuming that they know and that the bullet did come from his gun they have uh publicly
00:27:17
stated that ballistically uh they have proofed that the three shots were fired from his gun
00:27:23
right and so the other thing though too is we have um the measurement of his arms and the measurement of the gun and
00:27:30
is it even possible for him to get the gun in the spot where he shot himself and and facing in the direction that the
00:27:39
bullet would have exit the body I think they they should be able to prove that scientifically when when this case first
00:27:49
broke okay now keep in mind they're obviously treating this as a homicide right from the get-go but when the case
00:27:55
first broke the information that came came out was that he had his radio in his left hand his gun in his right hand
00:28:02
and that he was shot in the right I'm sorry that he was shot in the left side of his head which scientifically makes
00:28:09
it almost impossible that his arm would reach around there and shoot himself in the left side of his head
00:28:16
right what they ended up learning very quickly into the investigation now mind you by this point they've already set
00:28:23
investigators out looking for a killer a cop killer then they find out that no in fact The
00:28:29
Gunshot did come from the right side it entered the head at the right side right
00:28:35
but what I'm saying is depending on where at on the right side of his head it was behind his ear so it would have
00:28:44
been I think I think I mean I'm this is the great thing about podcasting I'm sitting we're both doing this trying to
00:28:51
put our right hand toward the back of our right ear and somebody's going to walk in and think we're doing hot yoga
00:28:57
but or not while you can do so I would I wouldn't say that it's difficult but it
00:29:02
doesn't seem Supernatural right but again maybe that's part of the plan if I do it this
00:29:09
way it's not going to seem natural they're not going to know what's up well and then in August of 2018 we will get
00:29:17
back the IRB report and we will review their findings right after this quick beer
00:29:26
break [Music] this show is sponsored by better help do you look forward to the holidays maybe
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00:31:26
Captain cheers to to you and cheers to everyone else extra crispy Colonel the independent review board established to
00:31:33
review the investigation into Shan Sutter's death finally published its 207 page report on August 27th
00:31:43
2018 and we will go through all 207 Pages well that's one page less than our report just joking here we'll break it
00:31:51
down for you in some bullet points so the report stated that the IRB concluded that Detective Suitor took his own life
00:31:59
with his own weapon the report contains information that was not disclosed until
00:32:04
this point so let's break it down now this is all per their report we may argue some things along the way here
00:32:11
Captain but let's start off in investigating the case the police department executed 12 search warrants
00:32:18
conducted 123 interviews followed up on 54 tips and cleared 33 vacant homes in the end they were left with no suspects
00:32:29
sudor and his partner for the day banka had been to Bennett Place on the previous day as well sudor told bua that
00:32:38
he was in search of a street worker named Mary this is as much information as we have about this person named Mary
00:32:46
whom he said was a potential source of information in a 2016 triple murder but there is no mention of her in the murder
00:32:55
case File or the Department's list of informants what they're implying here is that sudor may have made up this person
00:33:03
named Mary right sudor and banaa thought that they saw the quote suspicious person from their unmarked vehicle at
00:33:12
402 p.m. but they weren't certain they decided to call it a day at that point sudor had a 5:00 meeting with his
00:33:21
attorney the report reveals but bka did not know this while driving away sudor told Bowa he saw the suspect in the
00:33:29
alley they parked and sutor stayed behind the white van parked on Bennett Place and directed Bowa to the corner of
00:33:37
Bennett Place and schroer street so that he could see if someone came out of the
00:33:42
opening to the vacant lot located on schroer street according to banka at 4:36 p.m. sudor ran towards the vacant
00:33:52
lot and out of view of banka as sudor disappeared from view bomea observed sudor beginning to unholster his weapon
00:34:00
with his right hand just prior to that sudor waved at banka the purpose of this gesture is unclear banka interpreted the
00:34:10
wave to signify that something was happening in the vacant lot he heard sudor yell stop stop stop police and
00:34:18
heard gunshots B's reporting is a little inconsistent for this next part the report reads bka ran away from the lot
00:34:28
and called 911 when backup arrived within 2 minutes of the call banka and the responding officer approached the
00:34:35
lot and found sudor on the ground rolled him over and started chest compressions just after sudor was placed
00:34:43
in the patrol car to go to the trauma center he received a text message this is from his attorney at 4:42 p.m. Jeremy
00:34:52
Eldridge texted suor you have grand jury by subpoena at 1:00 p.m. in federal court and a meeting at 11:00 a.m. at
00:35:01
usao followed immediately by I can't stay past 6 getting no response he texted again at 4:52 p.m. dude what is
00:35:12
going on Shan Suter deleted later convicted officers gondo and Ward from the contacts of his phone along with 75
00:35:21
text and 3113 call log entries so what did the IRB report point to as evidence of suicide the autopsy
00:35:33
determined that there was a close contact wound where the gun barrel was pressed to his head the bullet had marks
00:35:40
consistent with suitor Glock although it could not be 100% confirmed as coming from suter's gun the evidence is
00:35:48
overwhelming that the Fatal weapon was suter's Glock suter's DNA was found inside the gun barrel as as well as on
00:35:57
its surface the report attributes this as likely due to blood spatter entering the chamber the report states that no
00:36:06
other traceable DNA or fingerprints were found on the gun the three shell casings
00:36:12
found at the scene came from suter's Gun blood spatter was found on the inside of
00:36:17
suter's right shirt cuff indicating that his arm was close to the skull and was spattered when blood was expelled by the
00:36:25
shot and making it unlikely that someone was forcibly holding his right wrist or
00:36:31
lower arm mud on Sutter's left shoe and left knee shows that he was kneeling on his left knee when he was shot this they
00:36:42
say is inconsistent with the struggle but consistent with Police Officers Training to take a knee to stabilize
00:36:50
themselves when shooting sudor was trained in self-defense and knew how to use the gun slide to disable his weapon
00:36:58
if attacked other than Trace Amounts of DNA which might be attributed to the officers who transported sutor to the
00:37:06
hospital no DNA other than his was on his person he had no defense wounds His Radio was still in his hand inconsistent
00:37:15
with the struggle based on the video and witness statements a suspect would not have enough time to disarm and kill
00:37:22
sudor and Escape bka didn't see anyone running away from the scene and heard suor yell stop instead of help we also
00:37:32
have sud's work computer the search history revealed that suor Googled Von Green Funeral on five occasions on
00:37:40
September 6th 2017 when sudor was laid to rest his family utilized the services of Von Green Funeral Home okay there's a
00:37:50
lot of bullet points there a lot of different thoughts and that's a lot to go through and here's what we got to be
00:37:57
clear on this because this independent review board they didn't from my understanding they didn't actually go
00:38:04
out and conduct their own investigation what they did was they compiled all of the information that was
00:38:12
uh gleaned from the investigation already right and reviewed that information together collectively as a
00:38:21
board as a group and came to the conclusion that Shan Suter killed himself right so the warring commission
00:38:27
and I also believe that the determination of homicide has not been overturned by this finding of the review
00:38:35
board so technically this would still be should still be a homicide and investigated as such now regarding their
00:38:44
bullet points they do put together a a good strong argument that sudor may have killed
00:38:51
himself I would argue back that I don't think it's conclusive no I don't think so I think it's still
00:38:59
unclear yeah I agree I agree with you on that but it's the deleting of the contacts and the the deleting of the
00:39:06
history that's suspect but you're going to meet with your lawyer later MH are you trying to get rid of it before you
00:39:14
meet with the lawyer and maybe it has nothing to do with the shooting it's so it's so darn
00:39:21
tough because with this case I think that a lot of the things you can argue on both sides
00:39:27
like okay for instance you mentioned the deleting of those two contacts deleting
00:39:32
of text messages that probably were conversations with those two contacts right was that simply because Shan suder
00:39:40
was a good guy and he it was known to him by this point that those were bad guys that were you know corrupt cops
00:39:46
that he was working with and he didn't want any part of them yeah just you you know we're not the same just because we
00:39:53
we both work for the same Department I've learned through the course of of history with you that we are not the
00:40:00
same we are not friends right and I'm deleting you for that purpose now yeah but it's just an odd time to delete it
00:40:09
so well I I don't know that we know exactly when that was deleted right um you know this could have been months in
00:40:17
advance from what I found in the report it just says that those were deleted when they inspected his phone that was
00:40:24
deleted I don't it's not like they're that day the day that he took his own life he deleted that information I was
00:40:30
unclear on that regarding the funeral home um okay I am nowhere near nowhere near the age that you would
00:40:40
have to put me in an assisted living home pretty close though but when I used to drive around the state of Ohio
00:40:46
conducting interviews and some of them were taking place at these assisted living homes there was more than one
00:40:53
occasion where I went to one and I'm like that was a really nice facility I really like the way that they are
00:40:59
treating the residents there what I'm getting at is just because he Googled a funeral home
00:41:06
doesn't mean that he was planning his death it could be something as simple as as he attended a funeral there wanted to
00:41:13
remember the name of it in case he had to make arrangements for himself at a later date or one and you say he's just
00:41:20
going to the website he yeah he Googled the um a general name not the exact name
00:41:26
of the funeral home but a general name that would lead him to get information it's kind of like if you walk past a
00:41:32
restaurant that you think looks nice and you're like oh I'll Google John you know
00:41:37
John A's well there's also obituaries that are posted on on Funeral Parlor websites oh that's true so could he be
00:41:46
looking up some you know a friend of a friend a family friend that might have passed away to see what time their
00:41:53
service is or if they passed away who knows know I think within all of that that there's really only two pieces of
00:42:02
evidence that I think are very strong in support of the possibility of suicide I'll I want to argue some other
00:42:10
things first before we get to those but regarding okay regarding the the mud or dirt that was found on his suit again
00:42:19
you can argue that both ways the review board wants to suggest that that means he was kneeling down in a manner he is
00:42:26
taught as an officer to stabilize himself before taking a shot right can't you argue the same point that he was
00:42:34
being attacked or in some kind of scuffle that led him down to his knee yeah and then he was
00:42:41
shot and then you have the thing you have the blood on his uh cuff on the cuff of his shirt which says that he
00:42:49
that there couldn't have been somebody forcing his hand could not have forced his hand there was nobody else present
00:42:55
right I would like to see I would like to see that really mapped out for all of us you know what I mean map this thing
00:43:01
out and show me how that couldn't mean that somebody else was forcibly holding his hand right to me that's just a
00:43:07
Nonpoint you know it's like it doesn't mean anything I don't give a [ __ ] about
00:43:11
their opinions on that well the thing is they could they could have a better understanding of it because they have
00:43:16
better knowledge presented to them where we don't have enough to go all right I agree with that or disagree with that
00:43:23
right but but since I don't I'm just throwing it out out I'm saying it's not doesn't matter to me well and that's why
00:43:29
I say I would like to see more I would like to see that really mapped out for us scientifically to explain how no one
00:43:35
else could have been holding his hand forcing his arm or anything to that manner yeah and then I also wonder uh do
00:43:42
we know if he's in a dead Sprint the reason why I mean this is is is there is there a possibility that he
00:43:50
runs around and says stop he fires two shots and then somehow within his movements it's an accidental shooting to
00:44:00
himself is that possible well and then you have you have the review board saying well his partner
00:44:09
for the day says he was yelling stop not help who we're talking about seconds man
00:44:17
who who knows what words we're going to use when we find ourselves in a situation right but if you're in a
00:44:24
situation with another person cops normally say stop it's the cops mhm stop or I'll shoot right so
00:44:35
what you know what I mean why would he yell help I right I actually think him yelling stop indicates that there may
00:44:42
have been somebody else present in that vacant lot with him I agree and okay so I think the most damning part the part
00:44:50
that may point the most to Suicide for me is the the very short period of time from the from when he runs into the
00:44:58
vacant lot to when his partner can see what's going on right they say that that's 8 seconds that makes it very
00:45:08
that's such a short period of time for someone to get into an altercation with this officer with sudor overpower him
00:45:17
three shots ring out one of them kills sudor it could happen however I think it's it's such a small piece of time I
00:45:27
don't find it to be very likely the other part of that is the person getting away right how does how did the
00:45:35
individual get away and not be seen in that short of of a time span we're talking about broad daylight well 8
00:45:42
seconds to run into a building is that's not that's not that's pretty quick but but it's
00:45:50
doable you know if I'm on if I'm on the curb and I push you over I can get inside a house within 8 seconds yeah you
00:46:00
could too I mean even with your bum leg well here's here's the thing you have to
00:46:04
wonder from knowing where the bullet came from from behind his right ear yeah is it possible that he ran into that
00:46:12
vacant lot and he was ambushed I don't mean gunned down I mean that maybe he was in pursuit of someone or thought he
00:46:20
saw something and was in pursuit of that and someone came up from behind him that
00:46:25
would explain his you know they say that look he he's got his radio in his hand so that doesn't indicate a scuffle he he
00:46:34
could be calling for help his intention could have been to call for help that would indicate a scuffle right well you
00:46:40
could run in he has his hand on his radio left hand he comes running in he thinks he sees something he fires fires
00:46:50
boom somebody's behind him they grab his arm he pulls it up accidentally pulls the trigger or purposely pulls the
00:46:57
trigger cuz he's thinks he's going to hit that person boom he's dead you bring up a very interesting thing here could
00:47:05
it be something as simple as he was in fact in pursuit of someone he thought was behaving suspiciously and loses his
00:47:13
footing as as he's yelling stop with with the intention of firing at some point and ends up mistakenly shooting
00:47:22
himself cuz again how old is he well he would have been um 43 years old so 43y old running around the corner and he's
00:47:31
going to put down his knee and as he's doing this and maybe he has his gun up here again you go okay he hits his knee
00:47:41
and ah boom mhm it's say I mean nobody can see the dance moves I'm doing but it's possible it's very
00:47:50
possible look your body breaks down I I don't care what anybody says and well it
00:47:55
doesn't who who cares I mean let's say he's in the prime of his life we all can take a misstep we all can be running
00:48:02
full speed and not see see something and step on it or roll our ankle anything any of that can happen to anyone at any
00:48:09
time well and also you're you think you're in Pursuit you say that before you get out of the car are you a little
00:48:16
jumpy because of the area possibly mhm so um it's a it's a possibility well let's go down this road real quick
00:48:25
because I've seen conflicting reports regarding gunpowder residue there are some reports out there that state that
00:48:33
they're they they cleaned his hands that his body was cleaned at the autopsy therefore they couldn't find gunpowder
00:48:40
residue that doesn't mean that there wouldn't have been some there at some point I've also seen other reports that
00:48:46
state emphatically that yes there was gunpowder residue on Shan suter's hand which would indicate that he fired that
00:48:54
gun himself at least one out of those three times I'm going to go with there was gunpowder residue because the the
00:49:03
sources that that come comes from I believe to be more credible right so I'm not saying I'm not saying 100% that is
00:49:10
fact but in my research I believe it to be true seem it seems like everybody's kind of leaning that way yeah so there
00:49:17
have been people that have pointed out well because there was gunpowder residue on his hand then he had to have shoot
00:49:24
himself but then one could argue is it possible he fired one or two of the shots but not the shot that killed him
00:49:33
right and then people have also argued well would have sudor have been smart enough to know that they would find
00:49:39
gunpowder residue on his hand therefore he purposely fired more than one shot before killing himself well again and
00:49:45
then you wonder about this video is it doctored in any way is it edited in any way how long did they have this video
00:49:51
footage before it's released to the public the thing thing that really drives me nuts or really is hard for me
00:49:59
to contemplate this whole suicide thing is again you have a person with you right and so now you're going to try to
00:50:08
Stage this if you're going to Stage this right there would have been easier ways to do
00:50:14
it I think well yeah and you're almost like purposely going hey by the way there's this guy we got to go get him
00:50:21
come with me where he could have said stay back in the car you know radio for help or whatever
00:50:28
right he could said all this stuff but he's saying no come with me get closer to the area where I'm going to uh fake
00:50:36
my my death you know I mean I mean think about this the they talk about all the abandoned houses the vacant houses in
00:50:44
that area right sudor was not a dumb guy this was a very smart detective face why
00:50:51
wouldn't he have said to banka hey I think I saw that guy run into that house over there I'm going to go in and chase
00:50:58
him out to you yeah he could have he could have went into a space where he would have known there would have been
00:51:04
no Witnesses right this vacant lot while it was vacant and yes there ended up being
00:51:10
no eyewitnesses to whatever happened in there that was a space that it's broad daylight there's a chance someone could
00:51:18
have seen him it doesn't seem to me if we're talking about a smart intelligent detective planning his own suicide to
00:51:25
look like a murder it doesn't look to me like this would be the spot he would pick right and very strange to me that
00:51:34
the whole department would come out initially and say we have a suspect we've seen a suspect our the other
00:51:41
officer the other detective on duty with him saw a suspect this is what we're looking for we're shutting down a whole
00:51:48
part of town and we're going to infringe on other people's constitutional rights
00:51:54
to try to fight find this individual and then all of a sudden say yeah there was
00:51:59
there was never another suspect we never saw anybody and by the way this was a suicide and you know what I I have to
00:52:06
believe that the description that they were using when they beli they were looking for a shooter that's got to come
00:52:12
from banka saying hey this is what we thought we saw before the shooting happened this was the the guy that we
00:52:19
thought that we saw and that I believe sudor was in pursuit of here but here's the other thing
00:52:26
though too who knows here I mean this is how farfetched you can get with these possibilities
00:52:35
what if he did see somebody right Bera he sees somebody he's saying hey look we saw somebody he might have
00:52:45
struggled with him we don't know if it was 8 seconds 18 seconds 20 seconds we're not really for sure right because
00:52:51
the the audio doesn't line up with the visual we don't know well and the visual is not great no I mean it looks I mean
00:52:57
it looks like ants you can't tell what is happening I mean it looks like little blurry dots on the screen you go to our
00:53:04
website and watch it you'll be like well that was a waste of time uh and then thank me later no but it's like we don't
00:53:12
know and then did somebody that they charge with these crimes these dirty cops did they get to to this cop and say
00:53:18
hey you need to forget about the suspect you saw mhm because they're thinking this bastard is going to throw us under
00:53:26
the bus and then he's going to get killed in the line of duty and his family's going to get taken care of and
00:53:31
ours isn't we're going to be stuck in prison you know you're going to say that you didn't you didn't see anybody you're
00:53:38
going to say that this was a a suicide and if you don't say that we'll go after your family I mean that's how
00:53:44
far-fetched you can go with these possibilities you know but to me our initial reports coming from law
00:53:53
enforcement if we're going to believe anything that law enforcement says our initial reports is that we have a
00:53:58
suspect and we're shutting down this whole part of this goddamn City to try to find this suspect because we have a
00:54:04
cop killer you turn around however however many days later and say that it was a
00:54:10
suicide I just don't I just don't know how much I buy that well look I can certainly agree with and understand or
00:54:19
try to understand because I don't live in that Community I can agree with and try to
00:54:25
understand the Viewpoint of the citizens of Baltimore saying we can't trust these
00:54:30
police also have two eyewitnesses right no I what I'm saying is I get that because it's proven there was corruption
00:54:37
within that department but it's not everyone it's as far as we know a small it's a faction of that department
00:54:46
right so the public is very skeptical and I think they should be I'm skeptical of the independent review boards
00:54:55
findings of what they released as their belief as to what happened I'm very skeptical of that actually I don't fully
00:55:02
agree with it I think you need to show me more evidence to tell me that he killed himself yeah I don't think it
00:55:08
stands up it doesn't stand up to me and I won't let it stand in the garage but we want the truth godamn it what the
00:55:15
what the Baltimore public will likely say at least a portion of them is well we can't trust this department to give
00:55:22
us the proper information I'm going to argue on behalf of some of that department and saying
00:55:30
this banka while I find some of his statements to be inconsistent I don't think that he
00:55:38
knowingly knew anything when he went out there that day meaning if it was a suicide he didn't know or meaning if it
00:55:45
was a setup for sudor to be taken down he didn't know either I think that his statements are somewhat inconsistent not
00:55:54
because he's being being controlled not because there's some great Puppet Master
00:55:58
behind him pulling levers making him do and say things I I believe it's because he was out on the job in the field that
00:56:05
day and something horrible happened and I believe that it happened very quickly and it might be a little sketchy as to
00:56:12
the second byc details that you're asking this detective to later give you so I don't I don't find much problem
00:56:21
with the very minor inconsistencies in his story the other thing too is if Baltimore Police Department if they
00:56:31
really wanted to set up Shan sudor take him down and then cover this thing up they would have quickly
00:56:39
arrested a man matching the very descri very vague description that they put out
00:56:46
to the public at some point and they would have pended on somebody they maybe they couldn't find a black man with a
00:56:51
black and white jacket they would have pended on somebody and I actually want to give them a little bit of credit that
00:56:57
they weren't bringing forward some innocent guy that's just down on his luck that has no ability financially to
00:57:04
defend himself so we don't have that happening I think I I really call on a question the independent review board's
00:57:12
findings here Captain I don't think that they have convincingly made their argument that Shan suder killed himself
00:57:19
I think at this day I'll go on record saying that I believe that the original determination of homicide should still
00:57:29
be investigated as such and until we have better information it remains a homicide in my mind well sticky
00:57:36
situation one because there is speculation that maybe he was a dirty cop but what we do know is we have
00:57:44
evidence of him being a good cop mhm and we have evidence that he served and protected a community and anybody that
00:57:52
is going to put their life on the line to protect us we owe them something and we owe their family something and what
00:58:01
this what detective suter's family is owed is to know the truth rest in peace detective Shan
00:58:11
[Music] sudor and you should go to True Crim garage.com for many reasons but one of
00:58:19
them we have our recommended page and we've recommended many books over our long journey here today we are
00:58:26
recommending in Pursuit the hunt for the Beltway snipers by David riken Ball in Pursuit is a memoir detailing the
00:58:34
pursuit and hunt for the Beltway snipers that lasted for 23 days in October of 2002 when they terrorized the Washington
00:58:43
Capital Region as they shot 14 people in random acts of Pure Evil you don't have
00:58:50
to write that title down now you can simply go to truecrime garage.com and find find that listed on our recommended
00:58:56
page and this week on our Stitcher premium show off the Record we talked about the jam Claus case updates so you
00:59:03
want to check that out we also discuss the TV show True Detective and that's on Stitcher premium so if you don't have
00:59:10
that go get it well we will see everybody back here in the garage next week until then please be good be kind
00:59:16
and don't litter [Music] Angie's List is now Angie and we've heard a lot of theories about why I
00:59:50
thought it was an Eco move few your worse less paper no it was so you could say it faster no it's to be more iconic
00:59:57
must be a tech thing but those aren't quite right it's because now you can compare upfront prices book a service
01:00:04
instantly and even get your project handled from start to finish sounds easy it is and it makes us so much more than
01:00:10
just a list get started at angie.com that's ngi or download the app today