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[Music] [Applause] [Music] welcome to true crime garage wherever you are whatever you are doing thanks
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that's right everybody gather round grab a chair grab a beer let's talk some true
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crime [Music] so we should probably just jump right into some of the possible theories here
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right so one of the theories that we discussed when we covered the case back in 2016 was the possibility that somehow
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Brian did leave the bar without being seen without his friends seeing him decides to walk home now mind you this
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could be at 3 a.m. on a weekend and this area it's while it's not a bad area it's
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certainly better today than it was back then I wouldn't label it like a crime ridden trouble area however it's you
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know there are a lot of smart people that say nothing good happens after 2:00 a.m. and so one of the theories that we
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kicked around when we discussed this was the possibility of and this is a pretty
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simple theory that he leaves the bar and during the course of that six blocks walking home somebody he's either
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involved in some type of altercation with someone or him walking alone and and I want to point something out here
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I'm not an expert at many things but I am an expert at drinking and I do believe from the footage that I saw of
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him outside of the ugly tuna that night I believe him to be quite intoxicated and therefore him being by himself
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walking alone in the dark visibly intoxicated he's an easy target for someone if you just want to rob somebody
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real quick and so one thought in theory that we kicked around was that could this have been a robbery that went bad
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or a fight that went wrong somehow he's killed or snatched up and pulled into a vehicle the likely scenario of disposing
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of the body might be one of the many dumpsters that are throughout that entire area so we kicked that around for
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a little bit when we discuss this case in 2016 it seems pretty plausible but again we have the issue of him getting
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out of the bar yeah without knowing where the surveillance camera frames are as far as
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the the screen you know he would have had he always would have had to have accidentally not appeared in those
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surveillance videos but I do I do think the chance that he got jumped if he was able to get out of there and not picked
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up on surveillance I think I think that's possible absolutely so the scenario that you're presenting is that
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he's walked a bit of a distance away from the ugly tuna because we have to get away from any cameras that are on
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buildings to pick up any sort of activity involving a mugging or him being snatched up and pulled into a car
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so yeah I could see that happen I could see where someone or somebodies would be
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driving and following him briefly before making a quick decision to pull him in the car clearly drunk and we're going to
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see what we can get off of him well it's also interesting area too because it's it is a college area as a college town
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so then things get ramped up I had a buddy that was walking home from a bar ends up getting jumped by four guys for
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no reason they didn't like talk trash to him they just got out of the car and fight was on and he lost all his front
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teeth we also had a friend that I went to high school with that was leaving work crossing the street almost hit by a
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car just kind of says hey guys what the hell are you doing those guys turned back around and shot the guy to death
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and that was on 11th Avenue which if you look at Google Maps 11th Avenue and it's
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pretty close close yeah and this is within a few years of that shooting so there's those possibilities did
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something like that happen and then they shoot the guy and put him in a car and drive off and never to be seen again
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because this is a lot of people that are in their early 20s not drinking experts
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going out to these bars drinking and then doing stupid [ __ ] afterwards no gunshots fine are heard and you know it
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wouldn't have the murder weapon if that's what happened couldn't have been a knife either there wasn't any blood on
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the street certainly not in the bar or anything like that well it's such a big area and it's so high it's so heavily
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populated that I think even if there was blood on the street nobody they wouldn't
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throw up any red flags yeah I mean because there's hundreds of thousands of people up on campus every week drinking
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and partying there's probably puke on every street and there's probably puke and pizza between yeah behind every
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alleyway but not blood possibly blood I'm just saying that noting yours I think what you're saying is that it
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could go unnoticed right that's what I'm saying it potentially could go unnoticed
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the other thing too is if he's not doing a straight shot walking along the roads
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or sidewalks if you're going to do a straight shot you're cutting through some areas to get from that bar to his
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apartment and I mean it could be as simple as someone follows him into a dark a dark area where he's alone and
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very much so just once his wallet you know here you see a preppy looking drunk guy walking in the middle of the night
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by himself that's an easy target to me well I hate to bring up the psychic kids but you know psychic kids did a episode
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on this Shafer case and one of the kids were was picking up this vibe that Brian
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was being watched by somebody that was on the balcony of the bar so if you're out on the balcony you could see into
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the club but like I said any corner of the club you're at you'd be able to see everybody and was Brian a little drunk
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confident and being the goodtime guy and flirting with girls and was there some pissed-off guy going man this guy's
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talking to all these girls and or he talked to my girl right or right and then you go I got an issue with this guy
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or you know the guy that's too shy to talk to girls and he sees this guy and he's angry with him because I do find
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you know we were kind of talking earlier like I find the psychic conversations interesting I don't hold a lot of weight
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to them but in the conversation with those psychic kids they claimed that they felt that Bryan was at the bar at
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one point left and came back and we know that to be true and that information wasn't out there to the public that that
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often so the fact that they picked up on that I thought was interesting I would have a much easier time swallowing the
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scenario that somebody saw him flirting with all the girls were flirting with his particular girlfriend this like
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mystery person right if there was a body or some blood or something people and maybe I'm totally wrong about this this
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this is even relatable to anyone who would have picked him up dragged him into a car to mug him like I am I wrong
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in thinking that most people just wouldn't know how to dispose of a body so cleanly you know you're not wrong I
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mean so you're now talking about someone who's got the capability to spontaneously kill and also the
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wherewithal to cover it up so so perfectly my original thought would have been that if let's say a group of thugs
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ended up shooting him for some reason or killing him yet as a result of a robbery
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having gone bad that the the quick easy disposal would be to somehow hoist him up into one of those dumpsters the
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tricky thing with that is we do know the family was searching dumpsters in that area as early as Sunday night Sunday
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evening and they did a grid search on the local landfill right which is something I don't think we were totally
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aware of or knew the details of when we covered it back in 2016 but the the difficult thing with that is you have to
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wonder could any of those dumpster been emptied on Saturday or Sunday before the search was before they were
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actively searching for him 1 2 there was as captain points out there was that grid search at the landfill that that
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did occur and I can't remember if it occurred the Thursday or Friday after he went missing or if it was the following
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week but it was relatively soon well again what's difficult about this too is it's it's a very it's a condensed area
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but there's a lot of dumpsters there's yes there's a dumpster around every corner yes that's why that was kind of
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my go to but but the but the thing is fir if Bryan let's say got out of the bar and walked 15 minutes north he there
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wouldn't be enough people to check all those dumpsters around that area during the search was there any result of did
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we talk about like search dogs cadaver dogs did they yeah they at the landfill yeah did they do any searches with dogs
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in the bar they did outside of the bar regarding the landfill search other than it being a grid search that was
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conducted by law enforcement with the city's help I don't know much about it other than that and that it occurred
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relatively soon after he went missing okay it might be pretty tough for cadaver dogs to work in a dump location
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anyway and there was video footage of the parking garage right okay because my head immediately went to well he he
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probably tried to walk back to Clint and married this vehicle in the parking garage and then maybe you had somebody
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pick him up in the parking garage and take off with him for some reason but if there's no account video account of him
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entering their garage then I guess that checks that one off the loss what bothers me and maybe this is going to
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come off they're very arrogant but to me the cops are saying we checked this and
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we checked this footage and we check the back exit footage to me it's I didn't check the footage so I don't know it was
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how well it was checked yeah that's very true I mean some somebody missed something somewhere because he's not in
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the building anymore well I just don't understand why you can't say if you've looked at the footage from the garage
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the footage from the escalator the footage from the the back hallway why not release that to the public other
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than what Tim was saying is that the other patrons of that night to protect them but it's like oh who cares you know
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and and the footage is not like the clearest footage in the world anyways well when you walk into a place that has
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video surveillance you walk by a sign that says you're subject to being right to being your likeness is being taped I
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really think because the the main detective retired I believe in January on this case and there's a new detective
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on the case now and I wish the first thing they did was to compile this footage and either put it on a website
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or to release it onto YouTube for people to analyze I have a kind of a random question I haven't seen anything about
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any drug use for Brian and I don't want to attach a stigma because we know that can happen in missing person cases but
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was he did he ever dabble in like some kind of upper speed in order to study I did see somewhere that he stayed up all
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night at times studying and I know that's kinda common an adderall was big back then yeah yeah and and well pills
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in general during that time were pretty big so was he taking adderall and instead of just taking it was he
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sniffing it was he was he a coke usage I have not heard any rumors about this I know he went through a period where he
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was a little more living the hippie lifestyle and so smoking pot but I want to put put it past somebody that is
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in school to be a doctor and and spending long nights studying and long shifts and and everything else he had
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going on yeah to use the upper I wouldn't put it past him but I don't know if there's any evidence of that I
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was even rumors of it I also just want to point out that he was grieving still his mama died three weeks before so that
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is definitely a period of time in a person's life where they're not really thinking clearly probably not even
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really remembering too much of that time so and that's in that scenario he's grieving
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he's got the pressures of school he's got the pressures of being financially in debt he's got his maybe his
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girlfriend that he's feeling pressure to marry and in that moment he's drank just
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enough to say [ __ ] it I'm done I'm walking out of here and he chooses to walk away from his life at 2:00 in the
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morning without any indication and and a long wait and he's the luckiest man in the world yeah that chose to leave a bar
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to leave his life and by the way there's no footage of him leaving the bar I mean
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unless he like beautifully orchestrated this elaborate scenario to pretend to be
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that intoxicated analyzed all of the cameras in the neighborhood so a new lane ticket bought the plane ticket to
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Florida to fool everybody that he was going to floor voicemail to his girlfriend yet right so that's all
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playing into his hand he he probably scouted out the area to say I can't walk down that Street or that Street because
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of these security cameras but I know that I can walk past the construction site because there's no security cameras
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and then he gets into a boat on the Little River and paddles away I mean so even him running away doesn't make any
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sense here's what's tough about some of these cases I mean even look at like the
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Marke case one of the things that you you go did he ant did Brian Schaeffer analyze all this stuff what one was he
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the most lucky guy that decided to go missing on his own ever or did he plan any of this and it
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seems so far-fetched but then you come back to the idea of well this guy was intelligent I mean he was clever so is
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it possible yes I think it's highly unlikely and same way with like the Maura case was she clever enough to do
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that possibly it just seems so highly unlikely that you would decide to as you're drinking and hitting on girls to
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be like yeah this life is too much I'm gonna go away and move to a you know some community and meditate all day long
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yeah it seems very very unlikely and really this is the surveillance video is is the part that makes it seem the most
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unlikely to me because again I he would have had to have accidentally been not seen on those surveillance videos
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there's no way for him to have known what the frame was on all those cameras throughout that walk home or in the in
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that building right but I think again I this contradicts the the police but I think it goes back to the security
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guards telling me how unbelievably easy it would be to leave the building and not be seen and if you base everything
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off of what they're saying then he just left and went home we we don't if he was
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let's say he got home he didn't get jumped no robbery he gets home he wakes up the next day
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and says yeah now I'm going to go missing the difficult thing there is we have no activity with ATM and we have no
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movement of his car and nothing's ever been touched as far as this bank account any credit card activity incorrect okay
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so one so that would mean that if he if he managed to get home and he slept and woke up in the next morning he said well
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this is going to be the day he would have had to have planned for months before to get a new credit card probably
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under a different name right because if he's that smart to disappear that he's going to know
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that he has to come up with a new identity or he had all those pieces in place was there any search of a computer did
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he ever have any searches on things like this on how to fake your identity or the
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police did take his computer yeah at some point I don't know what was learned from I don't think there was ever a
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report that I heard all right that I'm aware of you know being of anything of concern being on his computer right yeah
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I have not heard that either and we do know that the police had his computer and I believe they held it for quite
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some time and eventually released it to Brian's father and I think the family still has even though his father has
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passed the family still has that computer but it seems to me like if there was anything interesting or of
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interest to the police on there they may not have released it the thing though -
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that's weird and in Campton you really hit on something in the sense of of one thing if he if he chose to walk away
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Biya if it were on purpose that it worked out this way or just on by half an stance it's kind of a it's a very
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theatrical departure one - it would make him the luckiest man to disappear not being picked up on camera but if if we
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could go the opposite direction and say he met with foul play somehow well now we have the luckiest killer luckiest
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criminals right yeah luckiest criminal because now we don't have anything pointing police in their direction right
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and we certainly don't have the public being pointed in any direction because you you if you pull if you pull the
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public have him we're gonna question the the building and if he ever left the building to begin with we had a really
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interesting conversation last night where we ranked we did yeah couple interesting conversations but we said
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what's what's more likely with the cases that we have been looking at like Brandon Lawson Brian Schaeffer Moore
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Murray and Brianna Maitland which one of those has more of a criminal activity element
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to it or strikes you as having the highest percentage of foul play right which I think that's a great a
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great experiment because if if you're if we're going to do this I'm Brianna Maitland's would stand out as so
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obviously related to foul play just due to where her car was found in how her car was found but on the on the contrary
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you could say that that might look like the the highest percentage of a runaway and she's just staging the car to look
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like so I was just thinking about like how frustrating this case is because it didn't happen in an area like Mora or
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Brianna or Brynn and Lawson those are isolated single person incidents yeah almost in the middle of nowhere almost
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in the middle of nowhere and this is in the middle of everywhere in front of a crowded bar in the middle of a crowded
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bar and security cameras and there were two police officers there right outside of the bar in the building but outside
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the bar or security people well no there were police ever actually please lock a
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whole security team that surrounds that whole area so here's a little piece of information that hasn't not been
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released to the public that often this breaking news so the situation where when he goes to eat with his father that
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day that that wasn't some hey let's just get together for lunch that was kind of
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to get together to see if we're gonna be able to keep having a relationship so that to me is a little strange and then
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the fact that he was also supposed to hang out with his brother that night now his brother does have an alibi they went
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to the funny bone and with his girlfriend people saw them there and then afterwards they were supposed to
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meet up with Brian and they never did and then they said okay well we're going to go to a bar I believe it's in
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Pickerington and they have a bar there they have a couple drinks there and some people see them there so that's kind of
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their alibi but we were talking a little bit earlier there was money Ries that was going to
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come to Brian his father and his brother from his mother's death not a lot of money but I still think that has to be
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put on the table and that's part of the conversation that has never been but he didn't get the money right no he never
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received the money because he went missing but without Brian the other two remaining family members now receive a
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larger sum because they're splitting they're splitting that sum three ways do we know how much I the way that I've
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heard it reported is that it would have been approximately between twenty to thirty thousand dollars that Brian would
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have received so carrying that a step further assuming that it was an even split
00:25:46
right we're talking about you know eighty to a hundred thousand dollars that they would be splitting now who
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knows maybe the father was going to receive a larger portion that's not uncommon but the the the tricky thing
00:26:02
with with this with the events of that day is you can really kind of look at them in a under two different lights so
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one the having a steak dinner with your father planning to have your brother meet up with you afterwards after he
00:26:21
goes out to the funny bone with with his girlfriend or friends or whomever calling your girlfriend leaving a very
00:26:28
nice voicemail hanging out with one of your quote unquote will you will use quotes there because depending on who
00:26:37
you talk to the the relationship between Clint and Brian varies but uh but under
00:26:44
this scenario though under this scenario you look at at two ways some people have suggested is that him
00:26:50
making an effort to have a final goodbye with the ones that are still close to him right and then there's other people
00:26:57
that say well could the answer to why Brian is no longer with us be within that circle within that network so you
00:27:09
said that he went to dinner with his father and in Reynoldsburg and that was them
00:27:17
having sort of a come to terms moment of in regards to their relationship did they have a rocky relationship well it
00:27:24
seems like they had a decent relationship but why his mother was sick I think it came out that his father was
00:27:31
seeing somebody and it's not clear if his mom knew about that there's I've heard of several cases where somebody
00:27:37
gets sick and they become terminal and they actually pushed their spouse or significant other to find a companion
00:27:45
yeah not the most unusual thing so that's a possibility but so the speculation is that this really upset
00:27:53
Brian and the money that they were getting through the mother's death was actually awarded to we're not awarded
00:28:01
but it was granted to the remaining siblings and the father right okay so so how much would it take for a family to
00:28:09
plan to off well I don't know that anybody's saying that's the suspicion I thought I know but I think you know I
00:28:17
think it needs to be on the table or at least discussed I mean if you're investigating a case like this you have
00:28:24
to go every nook and cranny so one thing that would stand out to me if we're like
00:28:28
actually investigating it is his brother and girlfriend have alibis and they planned to meet him later on and they
00:28:36
didn't meet him later on that's that's correct right right okay so you could have a scenario where they've hired
00:28:44
somebody to do something to them and they knew that they weren't going to meet him later on
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this equation then I just think should be discussed and put on the table that gets often left out is what two years
00:31:06
later the father dies in a very mysterious way an incredibly tragic bizarre accident involving a tree branch
00:31:16
fault leading ribbing being ripped off the tree in a windstorm right right and hitting him and killing him and so then
00:31:24
now what is left because the family is this simple mother father two sons so now you have the moms died well the one
00:31:37
son's missing then the father dies mysterious and now you're left with one son and so he's he in turn inherits
00:31:46
everything so maybe the little bit of money that he's gonna get from his mother isn't not that much but you
00:31:55
combined the whole the total that that's been a motive in a lot of cases so thinking about Brian knowing that he was
00:32:07
going to get something from his mother's death even further makes me think that he didn't run away Brian might as well
00:32:14
might as well stay get some money that'll give me a little relief that's not life changing money but it could be
00:32:21
for him for someone that that old you know I can I can start paying back some of my student loans even twenty thirty
00:32:27
thousand dollars that's a pretty significant amount of money especially for someone that young a lot of those
00:32:32
medical loans too will be forgiven because they'll go they can work in hospitals and certain areas where the
00:32:39
you know parts of there alone are forgiven and if he planned to run away why didn't he why wouldn't he wait for
00:32:44
the money and then run away because he had money well and what of I mean what a very nice gesture and what a very nice
00:32:52
nod to the legacy of your mother to finish school right yeah we she wanted him to she you know she was very proud
00:33:01
of but on the flip side of that there could be some relief if he really didn't want
00:33:07
to become a doctor or his mom his father wanted him to do it more than he did his mom passes away
00:33:13
maybe that's burden off of his shoulders as far as school goes right the very tricky thing and we were talking about
00:33:21
drugs or in substance wait house let me stay on this one point real quick because so like you were saying to meet
00:33:31
up with your father to meet up with your brother to meet up with a friend that your haven't seen in a while is this a
00:33:38
sign of reconnecting to move your life forward after your mom passed away or is this like you said a sign of goodbye
00:33:50
just does anybody have a feeling of it leaning towards one way or the other now I know I don't see that as being
00:33:57
something a sign of a good buy for someone that smart if he was going to run away this successfully and not a
00:34:04
trace just feels like he would want to make the day he runs away be as average as any other day right and I think the
00:34:15
same thing too and the speculation that he's trying to reconnect with his father
00:34:19
some people could say while he's trying to reconnect with his father before he leaves but it's like wouldn't it be that
00:34:26
the wouldn't that be part of the motivation for you leaving in the first place right right so to me it's it's a
00:34:32
it makes it become a lot more odd that he goes missing on that day because it seems like he was trying to reconnect to
00:34:41
me and wouldn't it make it more difficult if you're visiting with all of the people that you care about and then
00:34:48
you try to reconnect with your father who you're it's the relationship is becoming sort of estranged right and
00:34:55
then you're you're connecting with these people that care about you you care about them you're trying to get back in
00:35:00
good graces with your father wouldn't that just almost make it impossible for you to leave I mean you're trying to
00:35:06
make your life better yeah well and I think that there's very good cause for people to believe that this possibly
00:35:12
could be the final goodbye and what what really sets the table for one to believe that
00:35:20
this is a perfect storm because what we have here is the known facts are we know
00:35:27
he's leaving for vacation on Monday morning what is the closest person to him doing his girlfriend visiting with
00:35:34
her family before they leave to go on this spring break trip what is Bryan doing visiting with his
00:35:41
father wants to hang out with his brother his brother says that look we may have drifted apart in our teenage
00:35:48
years and early 20s but but we got closer as mom got more sick we got even closer after she passed his words are it
00:35:57
was almost as if Bryan was trying to get tighter with me to help me through this
00:36:01
tragic event that occurred in our lives so we have a situation where it may be what some perceive it to be it may be a
00:36:11
goodbye and some look at it as a final goodbye I think it looks so much that way because it's a temporary good luck
00:36:18
cuz he is planning to least planning to leave for a week yep and look I've been stressed out I'm trying to get through
00:36:25
school I got I mean it's not easy to be a doctor what if he was so I'm told what
00:36:31
if he was planning on proposing to his girlfriend during that trip and he wanted to make sure that things were
00:36:39
good with him his family because there's gonna be a wedding soon and he wants to
00:36:44
make sure that you know we have a good a good wedding and we have a good a good showing at the wedding with with the
00:36:50
family right and one would argue then we have evidence of him hitting on these girls but I would say look that could be
00:36:57
more due to the alcohol yeah I'd say so yeah because there and there's this also some
00:37:03
guys and you guys would know this I mean sometimes when you're hanging out with guys that even are in relationships the
00:37:12
start of the evening is fine and then after a certain point after their fifth beer or after this six beer they're like
00:37:20
let's go find girls and you're like you're married or you have a girlfriend like what
00:37:27
how's this coming over you now it's almost like they couldn't handle their liquor they're not experts lately
00:37:33
colonel some guys just like to flirt I think though and not right right we're right and then you know and it could
00:37:40
have been as as simple as him giving them their number and just thinking I still got it
00:37:46
yes I won't answer the phone when they call me but I still got it have you guys ever heard the story of
00:37:52
Christopher Knight the hermit in Maine no so this man he was early 20s I want to say 20 or 21 he just out of the blue
00:38:03
one day thought I can't live in this world this this type of world is not for me
00:38:08
mm-hmm so it's the middle of Maine and he drives his car down down a back road and drives it as far into the woods as
00:38:16
he can before I can't go any further right and then he gets out walks into the woods and he lives there for 27
00:38:22
years and he he builds his little area in between boulders was he stealing food from the neighboring house that's how he
00:38:30
was caught he was stealing food from the cabins and then there was a sort of like
00:38:35
a recreation almost like a camp that would get these shipments of food right before their season would start so he
00:38:43
knew how to break into that place and that's how he was caught after 27 years his family provided for themselves like
00:38:52
they live sort of off the grid they were very smart they were very smart with agriculture and all of the people like
00:38:59
you know it's the middle of Maine so there was hardly any neighbors but anybody who knew them knew well they
00:39:03
keep to themselves and they're nice enough but we know that they're they want to be off the grid when the when
00:39:11
the press and law enforcement questioned them about Christopher about their son they they said well you've never filed a
00:39:21
missing person report and they said no we just figured that he just wandered off that he just didn't want to you know
00:39:27
he just went away right we didn't think they do he was like there was any danger
00:39:30
and you know and then you look at Brian I keep thinking of Christopher Knight and how no one really thought that he
00:39:40
would he didn't think that he would go to he didn't he just got overwhelmed at that moment and was like this world's
00:39:45
not for me and he just wandered into the woods and that's where his world was and
00:39:49
he was much more comfortable in there is that is that a possibility with Brian that he was just like you know it's not
00:39:55
for me and then he miraculously walks down away from the bar not around any surveillance
00:40:03
videos and that's that just happens to be something yeah yeah he just lucked out right there well that's the
00:40:11
conversation or the speculation and it's a leap and I know it's a leap but here's
00:40:18
this guy with a Pearl Jam tattoo okay around this time you would have known that they're working on the movie into
00:40:25
the wild okay yeah you have the book it's about Alexander Supertramp that basically
00:40:30
disappeared from his family and went to live in Alaska and so the idea was and then Eddie Vetter was gonna be doing the
00:40:38
soundtrack for it so there's a there was some speculation again it's this huge leap that you'd have to just assume that
00:40:45
he knew that Eddie was doing this and then he got wrapped up into this book and this went okay I'll just take her
00:40:51
off and we we've had we have seen this happen I mean there was they made a movie about it you know so but to me
00:40:59
that's a pretty big leap but that guy was found right yeah he ate something poisonous yeah and he was found by died
00:41:07
yeah yeah yeah yeah but a lot of them are not found yes they died in the wilderness and then
00:41:12
animals get to their body so in that circumstance did Brian hitchhike somewhere it didn't
00:41:20
take his guitar like he didn't take yeah so when they when they went to his apartment there was nothing that the
00:41:28
family or law enforcement perceived to be missing from the apartment or from his car
00:41:34
strangely enough though someone broke into that apartment was it weeks later four or five weeks later right and the
00:41:43
police said that by that time they had removed there were still items in the apartment at that time but they had
00:41:48
removed things of value or of interest to the investigation and they've never caught the person or
00:41:56
or know who it was and so a lot of people speculate well that might have been Brian returning the thing is
00:42:03
police have were very quick to say one the locks were not changed so if he still had his keys he wouldn't have had
00:42:10
to break into his own apartment Brent - they firmly believe that it was just an opportunist someone that this saw on the
00:42:21
news read in the newspaper that this guy is missing nobody knows where he is and decided to bust in and see if there
00:42:29
was anything worth taking did they publicize his address I don't know that they publicized his address but but the
00:42:35
I vote they probably did would be my guess I don't think this said the address but I believe they said King
00:42:42
Avenue mm-hmm six blocks away from King Avenue mm-hmm but here's a larger than there - then
00:42:50
you can lean on the idea of well course if I if I'm gonna go missing but all [ __ ] I gotta go back to my apartment and
00:43:00
get a couple things why wouldn't I break in right because you don't want to show investigators
00:43:06
that you still have your keys I wonder if they they fingerprinted the door where it was broken into and maybe
00:43:13
that's why police think that Brian is still out there somewhere alive yeah so that's the weird and that again that's
00:43:21
all speculation but from people that I've talked to and I I don't want to put words into Nicholas Westmont mouth he
00:43:31
was a guy investigating this case but he has always kind of felt that law enforcement believes he's still that
00:43:41
Brian Schaeffer is still alive yeah it does seem to to lead that way in my research as well that that police do
00:43:47
feel that way I do want to point out something though - I see that it can be easy for someone to go well we're going
00:43:55
to get this lump sum of money amongst these individuals Brian disappears two and a half years later the father dies
00:44:05
I I can see how some people can say on the surface that looks a little strange and a little fishy but I think we should
00:44:14
point out where you could call the death of Randy Schaefer mysterious or not normal or whatever whatever words you
00:44:23
want to use we should point out that in that very same windstorm there were five
00:44:28
other people there were five other fatalities so it's not like this is a very unique situation no I understand I
00:44:36
just think if you look at this case as a whole you have to put that on the table
00:44:41
doesn't mean that you can't eliminate that eventually I just think it has to be on the table initially the other
00:44:48
thing that the this has not been talked about in the public's eyes is let's look
00:44:54
at the players of that night so we have Bryant he eats with his father now we got Bryan and his father he's supposed
00:45:02
to meet up with his brother his brother's girlfriend so that's a player and the story you have his buddy Clint
00:45:08
and Meredith they go to the bar with then of course you have everybody in the bar but we don't know them let's just
00:45:18
focus on the two girls that he talked to at the bar so we have a total of seven players roughly and one of the things
00:45:29
that they haven't been they haven't talked about and in the public is in Brian's program there was other people
00:45:38
from Brian's program at Ohio State University that were in that bar that night and we know that that the cops
00:45:48
talked to Clint and we know they talked to Meredith and they we don't know what the answers that they gave but we know
00:45:55
whether or not cops believed them to be telling the truth or not but you have a group of other students he went to
00:46:03
school with that were at the bar that night that he went missing and have never been talked about and we're
00:46:11
going on how many years so I'd really like to know who they were were they questioned were they cleared reading in
00:46:20
an article that everyone who saw Brian that night was given a lie-detector test except for Clint who didn't who refused
00:46:29
it so that would be the two girls that he talked to and got the phone number I would assume members of the band were
00:46:36
given lie-detector tests is that for real like everybody that saw Brian that night I don't think the band was so in
00:46:44
regards to when they say everyone that this saw Brian that night they're probably they're probably meaning
00:46:51
everyone that had like a interaction interaction where lengthy interaction with him the the what I was able to find
00:47:00
was that the two ladies that he spoke with were can they did lie-detector test oh yeah I believe his father Randy and I
00:47:10
heard Meredith but not Clint but not well Clint was asked his attorney and he and he advised him not to he had already
00:47:17
given it was operating he was cooperating but he he had already got an attorney hmm boy here and how soon well
00:47:27
and he yes so the attorney advised him not to to do the lie detector which is perfectly fair because I don't know it's
00:47:37
not going to if they don't consider him a suspect at that point it's not going to you know not make him less of a
00:47:45
suspect I guess right but and I want to give credit to Nicholas West for really hittin this home because he talked with
00:47:52
the family members because he thought it was strange that here you have a guy Clint that is cooperating with the
00:47:59
police and showing up to searches and then all the sudden stops conversation with the family and basically lawyers up
00:48:08
and says leave me alone both coming from the uncles they were saying that during
00:48:14
the search that Clint was there after he's already talked to police officers that Randy Brian's father was loud and
00:48:22
adamant Andrew towards Clint basically his feeling was that Clint knew more than he was saying
00:48:30
but he's being so vocal about it in a public forum that I think Clint probably went back to his parents and said this
00:48:39
is what happened and his parents probably said you need to lawyer up then I think that's not out of bounds right
00:48:46
no not at all and I don't know what I would do if I was in that circumstance and someone were to ask me to take a
00:48:54
lie-detector test because what if my heart's beating a little too fast I'm nervous and it's inconclusive it doesn't
00:49:00
matter if it's inconclusive people people look at inconclusive almost as they look at you failed but if you say
00:49:06
no that stigmas attached to ya but mind you but you can never say that it failed
00:49:12
right right but mind you they he he did interviews with the police yeah still to
00:49:17
this day you can submit questions to his lawyer and that and they would answer some of them I guess well and to clear
00:49:25
something up I may have said something that is not correct so do you want to point that I don't know if it's the the
00:49:31
article or or or not but we should mention it yeah so we're not sure that this article says the two women
00:49:38
Brian was seen talking to were identified in 2009 and claimed that they had never been asked to take the test
00:49:44
okay yeah we should throw that out there just so to be clear yeah it's a possibility that either they were never
00:49:52
asked to take a test or they're the test was conducted after the the you know after that article was written but
00:50:01
really hard to believe that those two women did something to Brian right but here's what we that might be the reason
00:50:08
for not asking them to submit to a lie-detector test I think is you you have video footage of them leaving and
00:50:15
maybe you have people to to vouch for their whereabouts and their actions after leaving the bar the question that
00:50:23
speaking of leaving the bar the the big question I have is what were the intentions of Clint Meredith and Brian
00:50:31
after leaving the bar I mean is it as simple as we were going to drop him off at his house
00:50:37
we are drugs in origin we were all going to go back to Clint's place we were all
00:50:42
going to meet up with some other people what was the on the itinerary for after the ugly tuna
00:50:48
well well here's what we do know we do know that Clint I believe was a TA and he was watching one of his professors
00:50:56
condos that night and so we have him and Meredith leaving the parking garage and
00:51:02
then going to this condo complex where you'd have to enter in a code well if you look at when they left the parking
00:51:09
garage and when they entered the code and you roughly figure out how fast they were driving in traffic and all that
00:51:16
stuff it makes sense like they didn't stop anywhere to get there and then they spend the night at that condo woke up in
00:51:24
the next day and drove Meredith back to Brian's place to get a vehicle but what but back to lie detector
00:51:32
yes Clinton didn't take a lie detector but Meredith did hi Meredith was with Clint the whole time so you know I mean
00:51:42
like if he did he'd just slip out in the bathroom and and and kill him and then put him in this pocket and then leave
00:51:49
and she just didn't see anything I mean I think the fact that she took a lie detector clears plant hears lot of them
00:51:57
you know what and that could have been something that the lawyer told them like I don't like see she's already taking
00:52:03
she's taking it if you guys are in the clear don't even don't even acknowledge the possibility it can only hurt you
00:52:08
well let's go back to this idea to and I don't know this is a lot of hearsay right but the idea is that Clint and
00:52:19
Meredith were at the teacher's condo the next day they go back to Brian's house now their story is basically we just
00:52:28
picked up the other vehicle and we left and went our separate ways the story for
00:52:33
many years was that both of them went into Brian's apartment and we're at Brian's apartment for about six hours
00:52:42
the next day yeah okay those are two way different stories well we did we didn't
00:52:49
go into his apartment we just picked up the car and we both went our separate ways and they both met up they
00:52:55
met each other back up that night so Clint and Meredith hung out again that night but the way it's been told by
00:53:04
Randy and some other people is no they actually went into Bryan this apartment and they were in his apartment for six
00:53:10
hours or so and I think those are you know like I said completely different stories and I think some of the problem
00:53:19
and I don't put like blame or anything but I think some of the problem is like Randy didn't want to admit to the public
00:53:27
that his son was drunk that night but very intoxicated that night and and I think he was looking to point the finger
00:53:36
at a lot of people and I think he was also trying to create super you know fake narratives not in a bad way just
00:53:45
because he cared about his son and and maybe also cared about their reputation as their family is it possible and it's
00:53:54
gonna sound like a joke at first is it possible that Bryan knowing that it was April Fool's Day walked away and hid
00:54:06
somewhere to play a joke thinking that he would just be gone for a little bit and got himself into a bad physical
00:54:14
situation maybe he was ducking into something and I'm gonna I'm gonna hide out and make it seem you know I'll pull
00:54:20
this sort of prank on my friends but and you know sort of like ELISA Lam being found in the water tank
00:54:28
well now cuz I've always wondered this to like you know he was just out of funeral
00:54:34
for his mother comes up with the idea of well who would go to my funeral you know
00:54:40
so again it's April Fool's let me go missing for 24 hours and to see what kind of fuzzy kids you know I know
00:54:50
people that have thought about that before I've thought about that before that's it's really not the most
00:54:55
far-fetched idea especially when you're under the influence of heavy drinking you
00:55:02
I didn't even think about him coming back from his mom's funeral and then thinking I wonder what it would be like
00:55:07
for people to miss me I wonder what that would feel like can we talk a little bit
00:55:13
more about the water the the little river yeah in that area how deep was that was the water flow
00:55:20
would you like to pronounce that do you Olentangy I would not like Harrington isn't the Scioto by there yes well the
00:55:29
the intersect at some point yeah they intersect a little further south I think yeah from where he was but uh yeah I
00:55:36
guess so so what about that the river that was closest to him so regarding that this
00:55:41
was this was searched and per the family and per someone that worked close with the family and searchers and law
00:55:51
enforcement the the reports that I've seen state that the water was searched extensively to the point where I think
00:56:00
it's his uncle that's on record saying he's not in the water he never was in the water right and and he's saying that
00:56:08
I believe again I believe it's the uncle he's whoever said that it's because they
00:56:14
were they were part of this these searches and even recalls stories of being physically in the water himself
00:56:23
they weren't just they weren't just eyeballing us they were down in the water actively searching and so the
00:56:31
searchers say that at the time of the searches the water was roughly two to three feet deep now of course there were
00:56:39
there is going to be pockets that might be slightly deeper than that and some that will be more shallow but the
00:56:45
general consensus is that it was about two to three feet deep at that time okay so that's enough to drown in but not
00:56:54
necessarily enough to be concealed in probably right how far away is Lake Erie if you were to drive there I don't I
00:57:02
don't know how science works but I don't I don't think if either those rivers lead there I oh no I was thinking if
00:57:09
someone picked him up Oh let's talk him to Lake yeah yeah too science right - now two and a half hours
00:57:19
roughly so we also presented this case to a retired detective when we first covered it back in 2016 and his his main
00:57:30
thought was and it was kind of just like a knee-jerk reaction but when we when we
00:57:35
shot out the idea of maybe as the body of water involved he said his immediately didn't miss a
00:57:42
beat he goes they would have found him now and and I know that that's not 100% all the time every time
00:57:49
but to hear a seasoned retired detective say I'm immediately boom they would have
00:57:54
found him if he was in water they would have found him okay and unfortunately we
00:57:59
lived through that same scenario when Joey LaBute went missing and his body surfaced or was found approximately 30
00:58:08
or so days after he went missing with it being a river most the time things get snagged in the river and they
00:58:17
could they catch and they stay in one spot at some point so it's still a possibility but it seems like it seems
00:58:25
like the people involved in the searches people with a long history in law enforcement all seem to believe that
00:58:33
it's not likely yeah what about the train tracks I'm looking here and there's a looks like the commuter rail
00:58:39
or something there's a train transit station well that's interesting I've never thought of that it's a very
00:58:47
strange that run all through the area I mean it's it's a pretty straight shot to
00:58:52
the train tracks from the ugly tuna freight trains though right Travel yeah well you have the tracks but there's an
00:59:00
idea that I've always kind of wondered is if they check the Greyhound stations because there's a greyhound station
00:59:06
downtown so what was it possible for Brian to just jump on a bus and go somewhere
00:59:12
I've always wondered if they even check those you don't have to imagine they check the surveillance video but no
00:59:19
activity on his card right well and then yes on him as far as financials go one thing that I think is interesting
00:59:26
and I don't know why I find it to be interesting but the report from law enforcement is that Brian paid his tab
00:59:33
that night with cash yeah and in here I want to do a little speculating on that I think that there
00:59:43
might not be such a such a proof positive way of knowing that information I think it's more of deducing what what
00:59:51
didn't happen to determine that he paid the tab with cash okay so there's a chance that he didn't pay it all and
00:59:57
well squink come on now so her death could've paid it well but here's where I want to go with that they would have
01:00:03
asked Clint that they would have asked Meredith that right there's their statement is Brian paid his tab with
01:00:09
cash so where I think they arrived to that might be more of an assumption rather than proof positive his father is
01:00:17
on record saying Brian never carried cash he paid with everything for a credit card or debit card and but that's
01:00:24
also confusing with these cases you hear one thing and then it's almost like it's
01:00:28
always contradicted by his father and that's estranged well I think part of that is that we have a father that
01:00:35
likely believes his son was met with foul play and and he wants to point out anything that doesn't seem right to him
01:00:42
now having worked in several bars typically what would go down is it's very easy obviously to trace the credit
01:00:51
card debit card transaction so we know he didn't pay with a credit card or debit card regardless of what anyone
01:00:56
says now regarding paying the tab with cash that night that's very difficult to prove that he physically paid his tab
01:01:08
with cash most of the time it's not gonna ring up under his name it could be he could have been listed as anything he
01:01:15
could have been paying as he went as he went which is most likely yeah I believe
01:01:19
if you're paying in cash you're paying as you go right and typically if there are unpaid tabs every establishment that
01:01:26
I've worked at there's a logbook and any incident goes in the logbook and an unpaid tab is an incident and you have a
01:01:36
corresponding credit card correct by the way I was on the Bing machine again and I followed the train tracks and
01:01:42
found a freight train on the train tracks oh yes that was a that is a train track that carries Freight okay so so
01:01:50
freight trains move a little slower than commuter trains so that that is something you could actually hop on to
01:01:56
and and like run faster than in a lot of cases that's an interesting take yeah I
01:02:03
don't think anybody's ever presented that before and if you look at the where the train tracks are in relationship to
01:02:09
the ugly tuna you could almost put his apartment right in the middle no way it was it was that direction yeah no yeah
01:02:17
so it makes it even closer to another known point where he may have been or was attempting to go to I want to get to
01:02:26
two more things before we wrap this up first of all you know there's only one family member left that we can talk to
01:02:34
and that's Derek Brian's brother but a lot of people find it odd that he is not so forward with talking with media or
01:02:44
podcasters or whoever but I want you to give your thoughts on that Nick if you could I personally don't find it to be
01:02:54
strange in this situation it is 13 years later and I know that he's kind of always had this stance right or as far
01:03:05
back as I could trace however it seems that he is willing to communicate but it seems more to me I believe the statement
01:03:16
that maybe I'm reading too much into this but in regards to his reaction or turning down interviews or anything like
01:03:23
that the vibe I'm getting from Derek is not so much that he won't communicate regarding the case his brother's missing
01:03:30
persons case it's more so he it's a very emotional thing for him and he wishes not to do that on camera or on
01:03:40
microphone or to be recorded and it might just be it might just be a proud dude that's like you know what I if I
01:03:47
talk about this too much or if I think about this too much I'm gonna get choked up right maybe I don't want to cry on
01:03:54
camera maybe I don't want to you know cry on my core or whatever and he's got to can you imagine
01:04:01
first of all let's let's touch on this with his mom dad and brother in the course of in the course of three years
01:04:07
it's crazy hit from four to one and three years and so it's almost a domino effect when you
01:04:15
think about the emotions in this man is maybe it's not so much just he doesn't want to talk about his brother's case
01:04:24
but it also triggers his father's tragic death his mother losing her life to cancer exams
01:04:30
it's a [ __ ] load man right it's a load you can't leave those out of the equation when you're looking into this
01:04:36
case but I think you know that being said all of us here when we're looking into these cases we're not trying to be
01:04:45
disrespectful to a victim or the victim's family we are just simply trying to come to some kind of
01:04:52
understanding which would then help the victim listen then yeah you know that that this [ __ ] freaks me out I mean you
01:05:00
don't have to be hooked on drugs you don't have to be from a bad neighborhood you don't have to be poor or wealthy you
01:05:07
don't have to stand out at all you can be a Pearl Jam fan someone who's going you know in their six year of medical
01:05:15
school in a crowded bomb in a crowded bar and in in Ohio and and you're you're gone right add that at the very least I
01:05:24
say this because you said we're we're not trying to be disrespectful to the family at the very least a message you
01:05:30
can take from this is just always be aware of your surroundings just try to be aware of where you're at where your
01:05:36
friends are at because it can literally happen to anybody anywhere at any time and I think the another interesting
01:05:42
thing to which I which is the way to handle it in my opinion Derek and the Shafer family have been very consistent
01:05:53
with saying they believe that Clint knows more or could offer more assistance and I applaud them for that
01:06:03
because I think he possibly could even if it's information that he doesn't know that could be
01:06:10
important but I applaud them for not accusing him of anything other than right possibly knowing something in
01:06:18
addition to what's been provided I'd be very interested in talking with Clint or
01:06:22
Derrick and I think it could be done or Meredith yeah or Meredith okay so it was great to
01:06:30
listen you guys talk about this case as you know I've you guys as experts of missing person
01:06:39
cases because of how long you have dealt with the Marberry case is there one thing that sticks out with this case
01:06:49
that you would like to go down that rabbit hole and spend more time on that would be the first question the second
01:06:56
question is you have a gut feeling of what you think happen this start with Tim do you mean in investigating the
01:07:05
case or do you mean in talking the case out to do I want to revisit something no
01:07:10
I'm just saying like if you're investigating this case if you are us and you and we're going to spend more
01:07:15
time on this case Zehra was there something through this conversation or through your research
01:07:22
that you'd go I would dive down this hole a little bit more if you could well I would love to I would love to check
01:07:28
out the roof of that building but I also think the that the train tracks the the
01:07:34
freight train is a pretty good is a pretty good way to have gotten a little further away and just you know right I
01:07:41
gotta say this conversation has been super enlightening because a roundtable discussion of a case like this is really
01:07:48
important because you you get to hear the other people the other person's opinion I'm with you the the train
01:07:54
tracks I'm looking at it now that those that goes up to Canada that goes straight up to Canada well in like you
01:07:59
said Tim I have never heard any me talk anything about a roof in this case and I
01:08:05
like I said I've talked about this case to a thousand people when nobody's ever said what about the room I have to
01:08:09
imagine the police searched that though yeah I'm sure they did I would I would hate it if the police are listening to
01:08:15
this and they're like oh yeah they never saw the hangover yeah but the train tracks yeah I would love
01:08:21
to I would love to look into that because could you imagine that scenario he is walking back I didn't know that he was
01:08:28
walking back it's in the direction of his apartment and he's like I'll just I'll just I'll just you know I'll just
01:08:36
duck down right here maybe he sit by the train tracks the train chugs along yeah
01:08:40
a couple hours later so check a schedule I guess that if you can track down a schedule I think that would be valuable
01:08:45
information I know that the the the family what they've said publicly would disagree with this but I where I once
01:08:55
believed the most likely simplest scenario was that somehow he made it out of the bar he was attacked on his way
01:09:01
home but placed in a dumpster ended up in the landfill and they just missed it I still think that's that's likely
01:09:09
however I'm telling you man two years later I'm sitting here in this chair and looking back into this this
01:09:15
case again I'm I'm now completely changed my viewpoint of I I now actually believe the opposite and believe that
01:09:23
more than ever that he could still be out there and he could still be alive and the captain hit on something very
01:09:31
interesting that we talked about quite a bit and and I was you know pushed it off
01:09:36
the table discussion wise but I want to circle back to it real quick before we finish up is the the footage of that
01:09:43
back hallway of people leaving now we all agreed that if they believed they had proof of Brian leaving they would
01:09:51
have publicly stated that law they being law enforcement and I still stand by that statement however I'm curious if
01:09:59
there are one or two or however many multiple individuals on that footage that maybe they can't identify
01:10:07
they don't believe them to be Brian for whatever reason but they have not been identified
01:10:13
I think that's somewhat of a possibility as the captain pointed out multiple times security is mentioned there are
01:10:20
other ways there were other ways in and out of that building I I think I think the the when we discuss drug use
01:10:31
substance abuse we discussed behaviors mental makeup all that all that stuff the the key thing here to
01:10:39
remind ourselves of is it it doesn't necessarily matter so much who Brian was how he was before a month
01:10:51
before he disappeared because his mother dying is a trigger that could have sent
01:10:55
someone in any different direction lifestyle wise and choices wise absolutely yeah and I've had friends
01:11:03
that were the most talkative person you ever met and a parent passed away and they just became quiet but I'd really
01:11:11
love to if I could like in a perfect world sit down with Clint and talk with him or
01:11:18
sit down Derek and talk with them not and not even record it just be on the phone and ask some questions and you
01:11:26
know if if either one of them hear this and you know would like to even grab a beer you know just to go you drink beer
01:11:34
how's your hangover so uh anyways we should be getting out of here because you guys got to get back to the airport
01:11:42
so you can get back to Boston active worm town well and I do want to go on record saying this too this is one of
01:11:48
few cases that we've circled back to that we've looked into for a second or third time we've talked about it on our
01:11:54
other show off the record several times we very likely will circle back to this one again and again and again and I want
01:12:02
to be very vocal with with these words saying that we want to help in any way shape or form if the shape Shaffer
01:12:11
family or friends of Brian need anything think we can offer anything our information is on true-crime garage comm
01:12:19
we want to help in any shape or form the other thing that I want to help with is
01:12:24
directing a lot of the people that tuned in and join us in the garage today to our very good friends that took time out
01:12:33
of their very busy lives to join us in the garage Tim and Lance tell us briefly again about the podcast about your
01:12:40
projects and where to find you great thank you yeah check us out at crawlspace - Mediacom that's kind of
01:12:48
main landing spot for everything we do we host the missing more amore podcast you can find that on stitcher on Apple
01:12:56
podcasts we actually also have a sort of a revisiting of the more amore case that
01:13:03
we are doing up for stitcher premium and we're calling that creators commentary so that's actually us talking over the
01:13:08
old episodes and updating with new information and making fun of herself a fair share of self-effacing it's a
01:13:14
really cool project that stitcher allowed us to do and we're having a blast putting it together we're
01:13:21
delivering the episodes in batches of 10 so we'll do these marathon sessions where we listen to ourselves from you
01:13:28
know three years ago two years ago and we talked over it one like Tim said we update information so it's super
01:13:35
informative I mean if we said something and since the factors or the circumstance the circumstances have
01:13:42
changed then we update that so if you're looking for new updated case information
01:13:47
you get the parallel right there it's it's a really really cool project I'm really fortunate to be a part of it yeah
01:13:54
and and crawlspace is also available on stitcher Apple podcast and everywhere we
01:13:59
have the full archive on stitcher premium and check out finding more Amaury on amazon prime I can speak for
01:14:05
the colonel when I say the captain the colonel we had a lot of fun having you come visit us and drink with us and I'm
01:14:13
sure Nick will be paying for it for the next couple days well and we will see you guys at crime Conn can't wait
01:14:19
yep and thanks everybody for joining us this week in the garage we will see you back here in the garage next week until
01:14:25
then be good be kind and dauntless [Music] [Applause] [Music]