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[Music] thank you [Music] [Music] foreign [Music] it's been more than three weeks since
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the murders of four University of Idaho students and police are starting to receive toxicology reports on the
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victim's hair fibers blood and DNA according to law enforcement all considered critical evidence from the
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crime scene the case remains unsolved police still have not found a murder weapon or named a suspect but
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investigators saying today they are trying to provide information while protecting the Integrity of the
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investigation saying in a statement we firmly believe speculation and unvetted information is a disservice to the
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victims their families and our community the stabbing deaths of these four students has created turmoil at the
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University and in the quiet community of Moscow that hasn't recorded a single murder since 2015.
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[Music] thank you less than one month ago in Idaho on Sunday November 13th for University of
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Idaho students were killed in an off-campus house that same morning at 11 58 a.m someone called 9-1-1 and reported
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an unconscious person Moscow Police Department responded and located four victims two on the second
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floor of the home and two on the third floor the 9-1-1 call came from inside the home where the victims were killed
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using a survivor's cell phone an autopsy was conducted and confirmed the identity
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of the four victims there's one male victim and three female victims forgive me please if I mispronounce any of the
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victims names as I am going off of the Moscow police press conference pronunciations the victims were
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identified as Ethan Chapin a 20-year-old freshman from Conway Washington we also
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have Madison Mogan a 21 year old senior from Coeur d'Alene Idaho we have Kaylee Gonzalez age 21 also a senior from
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Rathdrum Idaho and we have Zana carnodel a junior she was 20 years of age and from Post Falls Idaho and like you said
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there's four victims but there's six individuals that live in the house yes it's a little tricky on the details
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about the home itself and as it's reported there were six people in total at the home during the times of the
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attack it's been reported that six people possibly live in the home now of the four victims not all of them were
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people that actually lived in the home according to the limited information release regarding the autopsies all four
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victims were stabbed to death all four victims are believed to have been asleep when the attacks started some of the
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victims had defensive wounds there were no signs of sexual assault in regards to
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the home where the victims were found this is a rental house just off campus the three women victims were renters and
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roommates at the home Ethan Chapin the lone male victim was Zana karnodel's boyfriend and he was staying the night
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when the four were killed and as you pointed out Captain we have two surviving roommates the two other
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roommates were present that night when the victims were killed they lived at the rental house with Madison Kaylee and
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Zanna and I believe their initial claims were that they were asleep during the attacks that morning when one of the
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victims was discovered to be unconscious by one or both of the surviving roommates they called a third party so
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someone or someone's from outside of the home then comes through the home and shortly afterward a call to 9-1-1 is
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placed it has been reported that the call initially came from someone not a roommate of the victims but someone
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using a roommate's cell phone police have released very little details about this 911 call one detail is that the 911
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operator spoke to several persons that morning and again the call came from one of the roommates cell phones yeah
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initially there was some speculation that the 9-1-1 call came from the actual killer but I don't actually believe that
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that that is the case yes that was one of the questions that was asked of the Moscow police department at the press
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conference and that was quickly shot down so it was asked did the call come from the Killer
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and they said no the plain and simple no the call did not come from the killer from what it looks like to me Captain is
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that somebody responds to this call a civilian responds to this call for help comes over to help and may have brought
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a person or two with them or in the course of trying to help an additional person or two arrives it sounds like
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there were multiple people that were in the home when police arrive on scene then unfortunately they discover two
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victims having been killed on the second floor of the home and then two additional victims that were killed on
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the third floor of the home it's been reported that all four victims were members of fraternities and sororities
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Ethan Chapin was a triplet his brother Hunter and his sister maze are also University of Idaho students Ethan was a
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member of the Sigma Chi Fraternity according to the university Zana karnodel was a junior majoring in
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marketing and a member of the pi Beta Phi sorority Madison Mogan was a senior also majoring in marketing who belonged
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to Pi Beta Phi and Kaylee Gonzalez was a senior majoring in General Studies and a
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member of the Alpha Phi sorority this according to the university the killings have shaken Moscow and Idaho Panhandle
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town of 25 000 residents this city has not had a homicide in about five years leading up
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to the events of November 13th of this year for those not familiar with the area
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the college town is located about 80 miles south of Spokane Washington the university is just a few minutes drive
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from the Washington Idaho state border I was looking at this the other day captain and it looks like maybe a five
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minute drive from the campus area to the Border you go west past the Applebee's and then very quickly you are in the
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great state of Washington yeah I know they suspended classes for a little bit and then then continued classes but I
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think it was during the Thanksgiving week you know when they're only in school for a couple days where a lot of
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students weren't going to class in the University said well you don't have to attend class but you can attend online
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and I just thought it's a three-day week this is a this is a mass murder just shut down school for a few days and just
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let these kids go home and feel safe because at that time and and maybe still to this date we don't have a very good
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idea of who this killer is that's exactly right so the Moscow police chief his name is James fry he
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has reminded us almost daily that they have not identified a suspect or found the murder weapon what you're talking
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about leads to what I find to be something that seems to be highly debated not just online but more
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importantly on the campus itself where the general public keeps asking the police for clarification
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is there a threat to the community here right so on November 15th this is two days after the murders the Moscow police
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say they preliminarily believe this was an isolated targeted attack and there is
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no imminent threat to the community at large that's their words verbatim and the evidence quote and sorry and that
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quote evidence indicates that this was a targeted attack other statements that are very similar say the killings came
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in an isolated targeted attack and there's no imminent threat to the community at large police also said
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evidence from the scene indicates there is no broader risk but provided no information about the evidence nor why
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they believe the victims were targeted the following day police backtracked some of that saying they could not
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actually say whether there was a threat to the public or not yeah and Layman's speak they're basically saying we think
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we have evidence that points that these are these crimes took place because of the victims somebody that they were
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connected to was most likely the killer this is what happens in any of these cases especially when we have multiple
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victims so Barry and honey Sherman media was asking right away from Jump Street the same question do we have a threat
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here to the community should we should we all be concerned or should we be scared for our lives when the two girls
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were killed in Delphi Indiana that was the first question that police were answering time and time again and then
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of course this is the question that keeps popping up over and over again especially this first week and here's
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here's where my feelings are on this and I'm not calling anybody out but my feelings on this are yes
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I don't care if this was a targeted attack or not I don't care if Delphi was targeted or not or honey and Barry
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Sherman any of these cases when you have somebody who has been murdered and the Killer is still out there and
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you know very little about the crime itself or you have very few leads on how to track this individual down who's
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responsible for the homicide there is a threat to the community whether it's targeted or not you know I had this
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conversation the other day we were talking about the Nancy eagleson homicide and as you
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know captain and and long time listeners of this show knows that's a 62 year old
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case and the longer that a case drags on without result without a solution the more suspicious people get so in Nancy's
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case depending on who you talk to you could have a dozen decent suspects in their mind and the question that kept
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coming up time and time again is well if you had to narrow it down Nick who would
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be your number one or your top three and my answer to that was simply look we have all these people that that you
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question and say they could be responsible for Nancy's murder however there are two people on that list that
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killed other individuals and for me that prioritizes them much more than these other suspects in my mind simply because
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of the fact that these two individuals are capable we know they're capable of murder because they've done it before
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and so that in itself is a threat to the public thank God most of us are not capable of murdering
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another individual well I think most of us are capable of murdering somebody we just choose not to be giant douche
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waffles what we have here on the campus in the surrounding communities of the University of Idaho whether you like it
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or not or whether it was targeted or not you have someone or someone's that we're
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capable of going into a home and attacking four individuals in their sleep and murdering them that person or
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persons will always be capable of doing that again there is a threat whether the
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police want to admit it whether the university wants to admit it or not regardless if this is targeted there is
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in fact a threat to that community and in fact there's a threat to the surrounding communities as long as this
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person stays at large yeah you sing it sister police are Desperately Seeking information in this case they are also
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seeking surveillance footage it has been several weeks they have had some time to
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collect that information and potential footage and they have been able to do so and had some success with that but they
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really need any type of Public Assistance and any help that can be provided to them in this case as said we
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are reminded almost daily from the Moscow police chief that they have not identified a suspect or found a murder
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weapon so they need your help they need our help information can be phoned in at
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208-883-7180 also tips can be emailed to the following address that is tip line at CI Dot
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moscow.id.us and you don't have to write any of that information down that will be in today's show notes so if you need
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to refer to that in the future we'll have that available for you well if you're a law enforcement and you're
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showing up to the scene the first thing you have to do is that we have two surviving
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people that lived in the house that were at the house at the time you have to vet
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them I think first because I don't think it's out of the realm of possibilities to look at them as possible suspects but
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then they brought in other individuals to that crime scene so that makes it even more difficult the more people that
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are at these houses it becomes more difficult for law enforcement and also anybody that's been to college
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knows you have multiple House parties so that means there's thousands and thousands of hand prints and DNA and and
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so much stuff that makes this crime scene I think a lot harder for for law enforcement yeah this is a difficult
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case for for many reasons and we've talked about this before that of course you're the victim's Social Circle is
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going to be where you will most likely find your perpetrator and now we have to times that by four we have four victims
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here so we have police on record saying that at least at one point in their investigation they believe that this was
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a targeted attack meaning one or all of these victims were targeted but this is a very bizarre crime to try
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to investigate one because the totality of the number of potential suspects the number of potential Witnesses because
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you have four victims everything's Times by four here and then the bizarre nature of the crime scene
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itself and how it possibly went down because here you have four people that were killed inside this home but
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investigators what little information is coming out one thing that they have told
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us is they believe and we'll go through a timeline here in a bit but they believe that the other two victims of
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surviving victims to people that live there at the home were present at the time of the murders
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and they were not attacked they had no injuries what happened and how does this go down and how is unfortunately the
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perpetrator or perpetrator successful in getting into this home carrying out these attacks
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and yet we have two unharmed individuals that we don't know what kind of information if any they are able to
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provide to law enforcement yeah it's very confusing because we don't think there are eyewitnesses we don't think
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these roommates were ear Witnesses but then they'd call 9-1-1 and say that somebody's unconscious but
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they should have seen the blood everywhere I mean this is a massive bloody murder scene the three topics
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that I want to make sure that we get to and we're not going to be able to get into everything with this case here
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today because a lot of it is still speculation and rumor at this point we've had so many people hit us up and
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say when will you guys be talking about the University of Idaho murders and we know that this is something that's
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that's in the media right now it's on the front lines of the media and being asked that
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we felt a duty to to deliver some information here today and partly I believe captain that it is our duty to
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deliver some information here today because I'm already starting to see some strange things coming out in this case
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that are very likely not true or not a part of this case I want to steer clear of those items today and stick to what
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we do know for certain we can get into some speculation along the way but I want to kind of stick to the path that
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has been creative The Narrative that has been created through the survivors and through local law enforcement working
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this case because as we've seen in other cases that there's a lot of strange things that pop up there's a lot of
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things that are created out of Make-Believe and cases and then when you get closer to the case being solved or
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once the case solved you realize oh those those things that seemed like they were almost out of a horror flicker off
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of the movie screen that seemed like they probably weren't true well now we know that they aren't true so again we
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won't know what's going on in in a large portion of this case until they find the
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person or persons responsible obviously but I think it's important to deliver and remind everybody of what information
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is out there because that's how you're going to have to build your case that's what detectives are going to use to
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build their case and this is not something where anybody is sitting there sitting on their hands hoping that
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somebody's going to phone in the correct information no we have the police department we have a lot of state police
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involved already in this case we have the FBI Behavioral Science unit that has been sent to the area we have local
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state FBI agents as well for Idaho that have been on scene since very early on in this case so we got a lot of very
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capable agencies and persons working this case and things might start moving a little quickly here yes a lot to dive
00:20:21
into on this strange case but first let's take a quick beer break [Music] tired of the same old game nights
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purchase [Music] thank you all right cheers thanks for joining us for this special episode
00:22:50
cheers to everybody cheers to you Captain cheers to all of our faithful listeners out there and a cheers in our
00:22:58
thoughts and prayers go out to all the staff and classmates and family members of these four victims we understand that
00:23:08
these are trying times and we hope that this investigation gets some legs and takes off soon and starts heading in a
00:23:18
very good direction I feel like law enforcement is currently doing everything that they can of course
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they're not sharing a whole lot of information so there has been some frustration on the part of the public
00:23:31
and students at the University there which I completely understand but for the time being we need to keep in mind
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that they are trying their very hardest they're putting a lot of resources on this investigation hopefully they'll
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have a suspect in their sights here pretty soon I do want to point out here Captain because we typically don't cover
00:23:54
a case that is just so recent you know we we covered Delphi back in 2017 but we covered it in in May and it
00:24:06
took place in February and we were one of the first to cover it but usually with these cases if you get inside of 90
00:24:14
days of when the case takes place of the day in question there's not a whole lot
00:24:19
of information unless you have an arrest that takes place within 24 48 72 hours of the case itself this is a very active
00:24:27
investigation as we said with not a lot of information coming out but I do want to point out the information that we are
00:24:34
delivering here today has been compiled through several sources and those include but are not limited to the
00:24:41
university itself the Moscow police the following news outlets which are ABC CNN
00:24:47
Fox and the national desk now there are three things that we want to make sure that we hit on here today
00:24:55
and your mom again we should be learning more information in this case and hopefully sooner rather than later but
00:25:04
we're gonna go with what we have here today those three additional items that I would like to make sure that we cover
00:25:09
we have a timeline that has been put together that has really started to flesh itself out it's not in great
00:25:16
detail that's one of the things that investigators are hoping the public will come forward with more additional
00:25:23
information to help them continue to flesh out this timeline of the four victims and their the people in their
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Social Circles we have some I'm calling them additional autopsy information but it's more of comments that were made on
00:25:38
the record from the County coroner and we also have some additional house information as we know we talk about
00:25:46
this every single week here in the garage the the keys to these investigations are learning as much as
00:25:53
you can about the crime scene learning as much as you can about the victims and their surroundings and also the
00:25:59
investigation itself do you have anything that you think we should prioritize and
00:26:06
Tackle first here the floor is yours kind sir let's go with some of the additional house information that we
00:26:12
have and then we'll circle into the timeline the house information the crime scene itself is what makes this case so
00:26:21
mind-boggling to me and many others out there it's very difficult to believe that
00:26:28
someone or someone's could sneak into this home attack and kill four individuals you
00:26:36
have two other individuals that live in the home that are said to have been present in likely sleeping at the same
00:26:43
time of these attacks the statements are that the attacks when they started the victims were asleep some of the victims
00:26:52
it's reported had defensive wounds so they likely based off of those statements the best I can gather is that
00:26:59
they may have woke up mid attack but how does this perpetrator or perpetrators seemingly get in there this kind of
00:27:07
level of stealth and leave there with the same level and you have two surviving members of the home
00:27:18
you have it's reported that there was a dog that one of our victims Kaylee that she owned a dog and the dog was present
00:27:25
when the officers arrived it's reported that the dog was not so they find two of
00:27:31
the victims on the second floor of the home and two of the victims dead on the third floor of the home and the vague
00:27:38
statement regarding the dog is that the dog was not present where the victims were found but was in the home when the
00:27:47
officers arrived on the scene and we have the statement from police where they are saying the other members of
00:27:55
this home they do not have reason to believe that they are involved in any way in The Killing so that's the kind of
00:28:04
mind-boggling scenario that we have here regarding the dog and the other two individuals and then one statement that
00:28:12
has come out more recently and this is coming from the the property management team the that manages this rental house
00:28:20
is that there's actually a sixth person listed on the lease that person I'm unclear as if this
00:28:30
person was still living there at the time we know that this is is student housing we could have a situation where
00:28:37
the sixth person decided to not attend school for the full year or or left campus early uh for the upcoming holiday
00:28:48
and was not around at the time of the the homicides it's a little unclear about the sixth person in their
00:28:56
involvement in the actual home leading up to uh the this tragic event yeah this is absolutely tragic and and so
00:29:05
confusing so many questions but I think the way they probably got in without being seen and and heard is this
00:29:12
happened at the we hours of the morning so in a sleepy college town there's just
00:29:18
not a lot of people out well in our four victims here did not return to the home
00:29:23
until after 1am that night we know that to be fact and my neighborhood I see somebody walking at 1am or afterward and
00:29:32
that's very bizarre that's something that that sends up a red flag here in my neighborhood you don't anticipate seeing
00:29:39
anybody out that late or or roaming the streets if it were so let's get into now
00:29:46
that we've covered some of the additional home information that's been put forward by the media I think we need
00:29:54
to get into this timeline because the timeline's got some interesting details about it and this timeline has been
00:30:02
provided to us from foxnews.com so if anybody wants to look this up you you can go there and find it
00:30:10
for yourself I'm not going to go through the entire key of the article but I'll just jump right into the timeline
00:30:17
Captain comment as you see fit here the timeline that they provide starts with Saturday November 12th and this
00:30:25
technically will be the day before the homicides but they the victims were killed in the small hours of the 13th
00:30:34
and also discovered that same day so keep that in mind so Saturday November 12 we have Kaylee Gonzalez post a final
00:30:44
Instagram post at 8 57 pm and it's a picture that is Almost Famous at this point because I've seen it this picture
00:30:54
generated on and being thrown around on different websites and different news outlets I mean it couldn't paint a
00:31:02
picture of happier people all four of our victims are in this picture they are look to be incredibly happy in this
00:31:10
moment from my understanding I believe that this picture may have been taken a day or so before she post it but the
00:31:19
picture itself was not posted until 8 57 on Kaylee's Instagram it's our four victims along with what appears to be
00:31:27
two other persons who have been cropped out of the picture so we do not know who
00:31:33
those individuals are there's versions of this picture without them cropped out so that night two of the persons here
00:31:40
Kaylee and Madison they go to a bar and they hang out there this bar is the corner club which is in
00:31:51
town and from everything we can find it states that they were there from about 10 o'clock till a little after 1am this
00:32:01
was interesting to me Captain because when I started hearing that the four victims it's believed that they did not
00:32:08
arrive home until very close to 2 A.M that morning it was interesting to me because given
00:32:16
the size of the town and I know that it's a college but I trolled around on the internet and and on map apps very
00:32:26
quickly realized it was going to be difficult there was not a whole lot of businesses or bars that would stay open
00:32:32
that late even on a Saturday so it really limited the locations that they could be going to because originally
00:32:39
this was simply reported as they were at a sports bar or a local bar and had left
00:32:46
there and arrived home around the two o'clock hour so now we get some further detail it was in fact the corner club
00:32:54
which is in town and while this is going on while we have Madison and Kaylee there at the bar we have Ethan and his
00:33:04
girlfriend Zanna who went to a party together at the sigma Kai house which is located on
00:33:12
campus afterward we have Madison and Kaylee who are captured on video on Twitch footage
00:33:23
at 1 41 am and this is they are standing outside of a food truck in this video clip they are waiting in line at the
00:33:33
grub wandering kitchens food truck which I guess the locals call the grub truck they are chatting with friends they're
00:33:40
placing an order this is when they are last captured on video so we know that they didn't go straight from the bar to
00:33:50
their home they stopped off at this at this food truck first police initially said that that all of the parties had
00:33:59
returned home by 11 45 a.m but later revised their statement to say that Madison and Kaylee actually arrived home
00:34:07
at 1 56 a.m this is based off of additional evidence that they have recovered and they received a ride back
00:34:17
from a private party this initially was reported as an Uber ride but now now it's being referred to as having
00:34:25
received a ride back from a private party whom police have not named publicly but they say that they have
00:34:32
ruled out as a suspect now when we're going through this article and if we get to the other article as well captain
00:34:39
that I want to dive into I want to be clear about something because the the language is changing
00:34:47
throughout some of these articles okay and some articles what they are saying is that certain individuals have been
00:34:54
cleared or certain individuals have been ruled out as a suspect I will state as the article States it
00:35:03
but what I think that we need to make very clear here and what is very important to me is that
00:35:11
the language that the investigators are choosing to use in regard to speaking with the public in the media is
00:35:19
different than the language in some of these articles a couple things that are in favor of law enforcement here is we
00:35:25
have two parties and they're at two locations two girls are at a bar the boyfriend and girlfriend are at a a frat
00:35:34
party so because it's a small campus law enforcement is going to have a good idea
00:35:40
of the patrons of that bar and the patrons of that party those people obviously need to be looked at because
00:35:47
they're the some of the last people that come in contact with these individuals but then we have the two girls that stop
00:35:53
at the food truck and then I know that they've investigated several people that have been a part of that video clip that
00:36:02
you've talked about but because this is not a huge campus and we don't have a ton of students and we don't have
00:36:09
that many businesses open this I think is in favor of law enforcement figuring out and being able to interview the
00:36:17
patrons of both the party and the bar and what I wanted to make sure that we were clear on here again referring to
00:36:25
that language that is being used because in these situations words have very powerful and true meaning and so I
00:36:36
always am mindful of the words the investigators are choosing to use when they speak with the public and choosing
00:36:44
to use when they speak with the media and the words that the investigators are using again different from these
00:36:50
articles I'm yet to see and hear with my own ears a quote of investigators saying that so
00:37:00
and so has been ruled out as a suspect or so and so has been cleared in this case
00:37:06
in fact what they have actually been saying time and time again are the two or these two statements
00:37:14
we don't believe that this person was involved to me that's very different than saying
00:37:20
somebody's been cleared or ruled out as a suspect the other thing that they are saying is that there is nothing
00:37:27
connecting this incident or this person to this case again that's different than
00:37:35
saying somebody has been ruled out to me ruled out and cleared means we've determined this person in no possible
00:37:41
way any shape or form could have been involved in this saying we don't believe or have no
00:37:48
reason to believe that they were involved means we could still find something later that changes
00:37:54
what we believe happened here yeah I definitely agree with you hot pants the article goes on to state that the two
00:38:00
surviving roommates were females who survived the attack they have also been cleared again this is the language of
00:38:07
the article have been cleared as suspects that they returned home that night they were out as well they returned home
00:38:16
before the four friends who were later killed so these two female roommates per this report returned home around 1am
00:38:26
so based off of all of this information what we what it looks like we have a home where six people are going to go to
00:38:34
sleep that night all six of these individuals are out on the town and it appears that
00:38:40
that two of our victims are at this bar then they hit the food truck they get a private party to drive them home that
00:38:47
person has not been publicly named we have our other two victims that were at a fraternity party on campus they return
00:38:55
home and we have the two unnamed or previously unnamed roommates who return home as well that night so
00:39:04
they're all out but the surviving roommates return around 1am then we have the two from the fraternity
00:39:12
or sorority party that returned around 1 45 a.m and then the last two people of the home return at 1 56 a.m so that's
00:39:21
interesting that they are able to narrow it down to very precise times here and that is certainly very helpful for the
00:39:30
investigation but one of the things that are confusing is you think about the timeline and you go okay well what if
00:39:36
one of these individuals got into an argument with somebody and then the person followed them home well that
00:39:44
would make some sense as far as some kind of motive it makes sense on some level but what doesn't make any sense is
00:39:51
that these two groups of individuals weren't together so it wasn't like all four of them went somewhere and got in
00:39:57
an argument and then that followed them back home so that's where it gets even more
00:40:03
confusing exactly that's that really makes this complicated and just the nature of the crime scene and the
00:40:10
persons there at the home makes this very complicated as well police have been up front and saying recently that
00:40:18
it is believed that the murders took place between the hours of three and four a.m and we know that the 9-1-1 call
00:40:29
that came in that was received that call came in at 11 58 a.m I'd love to hear that 9-1-1 call so there's our timeline
00:40:38
right there police have stated as the captain stated earlier that the four victims were stabbed to death with a
00:40:46
edged weapon such as a knife that was the language they were using early on lately what has been stated is that it
00:40:54
was a a fixed blade weapon what's interesting here too is that through the course of their
00:41:02
investigation we're learning from persons that they've interviewed in businesses that they've gone to that
00:41:09
they have a very good idea of what kind of knife it was this was not it was not a kitchen knife this was not a pocket
00:41:16
knife this is what one business owner referred to as a Rambo style knife that they were specifically asking about a
00:41:27
knife of that style I typically call that a survivor knife that's the way they were always advertised when we were
00:41:34
kids their Captain but if anybody's seen the movie Rambo they know exactly what kind of knife that they are are looking
00:41:42
for this would be a large blade it would have a very sharp blade on one side and
00:41:50
with a with a large handle and I believe that's called the hilt right I'm not sure if that's exactly what that's
00:41:57
called but but that there would be evidence of that on our victims and that's why they are probably honing in
00:42:05
on a very specific type of knife another thing I just want to point out that makes this difficult for law enforcement
00:42:10
is I'm guessing the DNA transfer and the blood transfer if you attack one victim
00:42:17
and you get some blood on you and you attack the next victim then you're going to be transferring their blood to the
00:42:23
next victim and then both those victims blood to the next victim and so on and so on and to
00:42:30
add additional information about the potential murder weapon here we have the Idaho Statesman that reported that
00:42:38
police were focusing on a k bar that's k a dash b a r brand knife in their investigation and had questioned a local
00:42:49
hardware store manager about whether the shop had recently sold such a weapon and
00:42:55
then the article goes on to State the in the coming days that police were ruling
00:42:59
out or clearing individuals that we have already mentioned the roommates the person
00:43:07
whomever drove them home it sounds like they've looked at several different people again the language that I've seen
00:43:14
them use outside of this article and other ones that we will cite here today is that they do not believe a person
00:43:20
that certain person was involved or there's no evidence connecting them to the homicides which again I personally
00:43:27
believe is different yeah I think it's pretty strong to say that you ruled somebody completely out I think by doing
00:43:33
that you run the risk of putting your foot in your mouth I keep both feet in my mouth at all times
00:43:40
right well let's get into some of this additional information about the autopsy like we said here Captain they've
00:43:47
released very little information on the autopsies but the autopsies from from what little information they have
00:43:53
released it sounds to me like this was a rather quick straightforward attack the only thing
00:43:59
that's bizarre there is that it appears that the victims remained asleep while the other victims were being attacked
00:44:07
now we do have statements that are coming from the County coroner to the media that
00:44:13
I find to be interesting and and two they back up a lot of the suspicions early on and they back up some of the
00:44:21
other statements that we have found in the media so I summarized it as such for University of Idaho students were found
00:44:29
dead in a rental house Sunday they were stabbed to death in their beds and likely were asleep a County coroner told
00:44:37
a cable news channel the County coroner told news nation that each victim suffered multiple stab wounds from a
00:44:46
quote pretty large knife and goes on to say State quote it has to be somebody pretty angry in order to
00:44:55
stab four people to death end quote the victims the coroner said were stabbed in
00:45:00
the chest and upper body area the coroner said that the victims were likely asleep some had defensive wounds
00:45:07
and each was stabbed multiple times according to police there was no evidence of sexual assault police said
00:45:14
and law enforcement say that the murders took place between 3 A.M and 4 a.m the other thing here in regard to the crime
00:45:22
scene itself is there's no signs of forced entry into the home there's also no sign of anything having
00:45:30
been taken from the house yeah and I can't speak to this particular house but I know the houses on Ohio State campus
00:45:39
if a door is a little broken or a lock is a little broken you're lucky to have your landlord come and fix it is it
00:45:47
possible that the doors were locked but somebody was able to either pick those locks or you know use the old credit
00:45:53
card trick to get in and and they and the people in the house just just didn't deadbolt the door some other persons of
00:46:01
possible interest that people I'm sure would like for us to speak about is there were multiple phone calls made
00:46:09
from two of our victims two of our female victims to a male individual it's now being reported that those multiple
00:46:19
phone calls were to an ex-boyfriend of one of the victims it appears Captain two things are going on with that
00:46:29
one I'm very curious who this individual was when they weren't naming him right and now they're listing him as an
00:46:37
ex-boyfriend of one of the victims but it then became clear that law enforcement was using this information
00:46:43
for two things one again the statement of we don't have reason to believe that this person was involved but it also
00:46:52
sounds like these uh text or phone calls these communications were what helped them to narrow down the
00:47:01
time of death as well and so it seems like even they get home around 2 A.M of course you know you
00:47:09
don't go home and and most of us don't go home from a night out and then go straight to bed but it was very late at
00:47:14
night when they returned home but it appears that they were still active for some period of time after returning to
00:47:21
the home that night yeah when I go to a bar and then I hit up the old grub truck I'm passing out right when I get
00:47:29
home let's just be clear about this I want to I want to make sure I'm clear on what
00:47:35
you're stating this ex-boyfriend was not just in communication with one of the roommates
00:47:41
or one of the victims but in communication with two of the victims that is what the statements are from the
00:47:50
articles that I have reviewed yes to me that is very suspicious and to me I'd want to know what those
00:47:58
conversations were about agreed in anybody that's communicating or interacting with any of our victims
00:48:05
leading up to the murders is going to be somebody that will be interesting to police and to
00:48:11
investigators now in this regard I personally did not find it to be bizarre I did I get it but the Social
00:48:20
Circles that I run in almost everyone's significant others are very close friends with
00:48:25
with everyone in the group and the way that I understand this and again I'm just you know 40 year old dude living
00:48:35
halfway across America away from from these victims trying to understand some victims in their their lives going on
00:48:42
that are half my age so I clearly don't know anything well clearly not and you're living in a van
00:48:50
down by the river but just pointing out that from my understanding the information that's out there is that the
00:48:57
two that were in communication with this ex-boyfriend were Madison and Kaylee and from my understanding and listening
00:49:07
to the victims families talk about their daughters and their daughter's relationships with each other that these
00:49:16
two were best friends from middle school and Beyond like the the closeness of their relationship is so hard to
00:49:27
describe to everybody out there because it sounds to me like many of us may have
00:49:32
not experienced a friendship that is in fact this close for this long of a period of time so from middle school on
00:49:40
high school and then they they go to the same college and become roommates together and they're two of the older
00:49:48
persons living in this house and this rental house on campus I don't find it strange that having that close of a bond
00:49:57
in relationship that one person that was not a part of that relationship of the boyfriend girlfriend relationship was in
00:50:06
communication with this male on that night as said those same two victims were together that entire night together
00:50:15
right which could be something as simple as oh I can't get a hold of Kaylee so I
00:50:21
text her best friend who was always with her right or I called her best friend who was always with her or so and so
00:50:29
called him I get it and I think you're spot on Captain you're absolutely right police would be foolish to not look at
00:50:37
him and it obviously they have done so to say that they've ruled him out or cleared and would be irresponsible to
00:50:45
say that they can't really connect them to the homicides is is likely a true statement of their investigation in the
00:50:51
evidence that they have so far the other thing that's interesting and it's also in regard to Kaylee as well is that I
00:50:58
guess in October she had made reference to a potential stalker there's very little details about that and and what
00:51:05
she had said to other people however the police come out and say that we believe that we have Tracked Down
00:51:12
to individuals that may have been called a stalker so these two individuals are our friends
00:51:20
they are persons that the police obviously know their names they've been interviewed right and one guy is saying
00:51:27
yeah I saw I was at me and my buddy went to a public place those who stocked together flocked together and we went
00:51:34
there with the intention or the hopes of meeting women the ladies and yes I I followed
00:51:44
her around I don't know if this was a bar they don't go into what kind of business or what kind of Gathering Place
00:51:49
this was right but he says yes I followed her around I may have even gone out to the parking lot when she went out
00:51:54
to the parking lot he says he did not interact with her at all this could be very simple as the
00:52:01
situation that we see every night on a campus boy goes out hoping to meet girl boy is too chicken [ __ ] to approach her
00:52:10
and talk with her but does the weird thing where he kind of follows her around briefly or or tries to exchange
00:52:16
glances across the room in hopes that she will come over and speak with him but never does so the police say that
00:52:24
they've moved on from this individual and and his friend and have no reason to believe that they had any type of
00:52:30
involvement at all but weirdly he hasn't moved on that was very weird to me not that they said that they've moved on
00:52:37
from this individual but it was weird to me that it that they came out and they it sounded like they
00:52:43
were so confident that they had Tracked Down The Stalker like oh it's just this goofy guy that
00:52:49
followed her around at a bar what have you well it could be a like you said a flipped comment that she made that it
00:52:55
was just kind of joking oh this guy followed me around the bar he's a stalker or it could be that she was
00:53:00
talking about a different individual and they just haven't been able to identify
00:53:04
that person again a statement like that could mean the world or mean nothing because we don't know the context in
00:53:13
which she said it exactly and then what we do have where I thought that the police statements were very weird in
00:53:20
that regard they did come out a couple days later and said hey yeah we have this information and we spoke about this
00:53:27
information with you guys previously but we are now actively seeking additional information if there
00:53:35
was a an actual stalker or if there was somebody of interest to this case and in regard to what
00:53:42
Kaylee had said to her friends again we're getting very little details on what she had said and it could have
00:53:49
absolutely nothing to do with this crime now where my head goes on this Captain was something you had said earlier where
00:53:57
immediately knowing that our victims were out and about that night before they returned home the killer comes into
00:54:03
the home and kills the victims and then flees right I wanted to know in my first
00:54:09
reaction was you know what damn it law enforcement better be all over every person that was at that bar that night
00:54:18
all over them like white on rice baby or everybody that was at that food truck or
00:54:24
the person that gave them a ride home but then you compound that stock with the idea that that two of our victims
00:54:31
were at different locations and our other two victims was it were at a completely different party a completely
00:54:38
different Gathering that makes this so bizarre to me if you had somebody that got ticked off
00:54:47
went off the rails and wanted to do something to somebody that they had interaction with or or otherwise that
00:54:54
night leading up to it why do we have two additional victims yeah and then why do we have two individuals that weren't
00:55:01
victims to just get scared and stop the attack I'd also want to go back further in time and say was there a house party
00:55:12
or somebody at that house party felt like they were disrespected or humiliated or whatever that maybe came
00:55:21
back because this type of weapon to me is not a knife that you're just going to be carrying around with you to parties
00:55:30
so to me this this seems like not some random thing that this was actually planned to some level well and what I
00:55:40
would encourage here is anybody and I know I'm stating the obvious but anybody on that campus or in the surrounding
00:55:47
communities that know somebody that has or weeks ago had that type of knife that type of weapon
00:55:55
in their possession please be on the phone with law enforcement and let them know that you
00:56:02
know somebody that had that type of knife this is not it's not an uncommon knife but it's not also a terribly
00:56:08
common knife it's not one that you would find in most people's homes in fact the
00:56:13
only reason why I'm well aware of this knife is when I was in Cub Scouts and boy scouts there was a good number of of
00:56:20
boys that that had this type of knife and would bring it on like a camping trip or or
00:56:27
something of that nature yeah this is a type of knife to me that you buy and then you show your roommates hey check
00:56:33
out my new knife and they're typically not expensive they're typically not incredibly well made I can't speak to
00:56:40
this uh k-bar brand I don't I don't know that brand specifically but I will say this this is not a knife that I would
00:56:47
anticipate seeing someone of our age to have in their possession well speak for yourself I pretend to be Rambo every
00:56:56
morning there's so many unanswered questions and obviously this case is going to develop more
00:57:02
but I actually think as much as we want information a lot of the stuff that you've been reporting on
00:57:10
is the police backtracking on statements and I almost feel like yes they felt like they had to get ahead of this in
00:57:20
the media but I've actually I actually think that they're making too many statements because when you have to
00:57:25
start going back and correcting little details and the the devil like you said lives in the details of these little
00:57:33
statements they're making whether they're fully clearing somebody or they've just moved on from that lead I
00:57:41
think they're spending too much time trying to give information to the public I think it would be better
00:57:48
I think law enforcement would be better served to sit back let the leads come in
00:57:53
work those leads and when you have definitive information then you present that definitive information to the
00:58:00
public and having people like the Behavioral Science unit there on scene look I don't think that as get as many
00:58:09
people and as many resources involved as you can I think that if they do come up
00:58:14
with some kind of profile of the killer or Killers that's that's where I think that the FBI could be of the most
00:58:21
service is determining how many people are responsible for these homicides but the the actual profile if it were in
00:58:30
fact one perpetrator because you have a campus because you have a community of persons that are all roughly about the
00:58:43
same age and they're all like-minded individuals that are attending that school I think that I don't know how much a
00:58:51
profile is going to help you in this situation and you know Captain I'm a big proponent of of these of profiles and
00:58:59
again where I think the FBI could be of most Services determining how many persons are involved it as difficult as
00:59:07
it may be to believe from what I'm seeing here it looks like probably one person involved I would want to know a
00:59:15
lot more about this dog and a lot more about this house I've seen information come out that says that the layout of
00:59:21
this home was tricky it's three stories high which is difficult anyway for somebody that's never been into the home
00:59:31
is this somebody that has previously been in the home as you pointed out this is somebody that could have been at a
00:59:36
house party that took place there at one point uh if these individuals were targeted did they target the right
00:59:42
people there's a million questions here I want to know more about this dog too is this
00:59:47
dog yapper is the dog friendly or not friendly is this dog going to bark and go crazy at a person that they've never
00:59:54
seen before yeah and we again we don't know the location of the dog at the time is it a dog that they put in a cage at
01:00:03
night time and the dog sleeps in their cage I think you're right and wrong I think
01:00:09
FBI and law enforcement could determine if they believe it was one individual or
01:00:14
multiple I think you can do that because look we have a idea of what the murder weapon was then we could figure out the
01:00:22
idea of if the killer was right-handed or left-handed but I actually think because it is a small college and now
01:00:30
you have all these people on higher alert and they're going to be looking for every individual that's acting
01:00:37
different or or has left school or maybe left school before these attacks happen
01:00:43
I think a profile would do a lot of good because with a small College people are
01:00:48
going to be on high alert and I think that's going to lead to some individuals being looked at that maybe law
01:00:55
enforcement doesn't have on their radar very possible very possible the the other things to consider in this case as
01:01:02
well you know I want to know more about this potential sixth person that is is on the lease where were they why are
01:01:09
they not mentioned hardly at all in any of the newspaper articles in the news articles
01:01:16
was that person not even on campus at the time for all we know they returned home to visit family for the holidays or
01:01:22
maybe finish school early or signed on to the lease and didn't attend school this year for any number of reasons yeah
01:01:30
or they lived in the house for a while and didn't like it and maybe there was a conflict there
01:01:36
when I hear knife attack sleep or no sleep defense wounds are no defense wounds my main goal as an
01:01:47
investigator would be a couple things blood evidence is going to be so key here we've talked about this many times
01:01:54
here in the garage and these types of knife attacks it's almost impossible for the perpetrator to not cut themselves
01:02:02
injure themselves leave their own blood at the scene I'm not so hopeful on that because we're sitting here almost a
01:02:10
month later and those types of tests don't take forever to run now could we have a mixing
01:02:18
of blood and fluids yes that's a possibility and that certainly complicates things so blood evidence
01:02:24
would be a high priority for me uh fingerprint evidence can get difficult here as you pointed out campus house
01:02:31
could have been House Parties we have an additional party that we don't know their comings and goings as well
01:02:40
and we also have a lot of people that live there and so all their guests that they would have come visit them and all
01:02:46
their family members that might come visit them I think we're going to find and this is
01:02:53
my gut feeling that there is some sort of premeditation whether there was a conflict at the bar or conflict at the
01:03:01
party or conflict a week or two prior to this that this individual either got the
01:03:08
knife for that reason or had the knife and then had to go home and prepare themselves and that
01:03:15
to me would lead towards they prepared themselves by getting they probably prepared themselves by getting the
01:03:22
weapon maybe putting on gloves maybe changing clothes that they were able to throw away and that's the other
01:03:29
difficult thing for law enforcement you have a lot of houses you have dumpsters in that area and somebody could have
01:03:36
discarded their clothes pretty easily and quickly could it have been somebody that was watching the house that this
01:03:43
had been something that was bubbling up for some time it that stands to reason a little bit
01:03:50
considering that the two surviving members of the household returned first and they were unharmed and the attack
01:03:59
doesn't go down until after these other four people returned to the home the other thing that that I want to
01:04:06
Circle in on here that is is concerning and these knife attacks there's there's a considerable amount of blood and I
01:04:16
know that I talked about blood evidence but this is on that same regard footprints
01:04:22
you would expect to find bloody Footprints at this scene and that would be very good evidence
01:04:31
that could lead you to your killer that would be great evidence that's going to let you know if we should be looking for
01:04:38
one two or three people the problem here in my major concerns and the red flags that I have in this
01:04:46
case where I I sit back and I go you know what and I know forgive me Captain because
01:04:52
two of these individuals are are likely just victims themselves having been roommates and losing very close friends
01:04:59
and and experiencing something that that none of us should ever have to experience so just forgive me while I go
01:05:06
down this road of speculation here but my concerns are are twofold one when it's when it's stated that you called
01:05:16
someone else before a call to 9-1-1 was made and the 9-1-1 call is then about an
01:05:23
unconscious person the the amount of blood that would have been at that scene and we're not talking about they
01:05:29
discover a victim at six in the morning when it's still dark out right five in the morning when it's still dark out
01:05:36
this is 11 56 a.m or 11 58 a.m when the 9-1-1 call comes in to me I and I you don't have to be a garage
01:05:46
expert to sit here and go you know there's a there's clear and obvious differences between a stab victim and
01:05:53
somebody that's just blacked out or passed out and unresponsive there should have been blood indicators
01:06:00
there to to tell these roommates that something else happened here and instead a call goes out to a third party or to
01:06:08
additional people that then come into are into the home and then into our crime scene right and trample our crime
01:06:17
scene where bloody shoe prints could have been the key indicator of who is responsible for this bloody shoe Prince
01:06:25
could have been the breadcrumb trail that led you directly to your perpetrator and now we got people there
01:06:32
trampling all over our crime scene and and the call that comes in is weird and I and here's the thing very likely the
01:06:40
9-1-1 call if we had the audio for it would probably clear a lot of that up yeah and what we've learned
01:06:47
through covering so many cases that cases are similar so I think you can look into spree killings like the one
01:06:55
that Bundy did the one that Richard Speck did or any other spree type killing and I think you'll find similarities in
01:07:04
those crimes and this crime in Idaho but I also am drawn to crimes like Lululemon
01:07:11
where they find somebody at the scene that now we quote unquote call victim and then ultimately becomes a suspect
01:07:20
ultimately becomes the person charged with the murders of that crime and if I killed a roommate
01:07:28
well let me invite a bunch of other people over to the crime scene to start contaminating it so it's not I think
01:07:35
unfair to say if I was law enforcement like I stated at the beginning of the show if I'm law
01:07:40
enforcement those are the two individuals I'm looking at and anybody that came over to that house anybody
01:07:45
that they called I'm starting there and I'm trying to vet them as much as I can before I move to the outside Circle
01:07:54
so many questions and I hope that the families and the students and the staff and everybody involved gets the answers
01:08:01
that they so rightfully deserve sooner rather than later and hopefully we can start to close out this case and again
01:08:09
our thoughts and prayers with everybody that have been impacted by this horrible
01:08:15
tragedy I know that we did our shows a little different than we do traditionally here
01:08:22
in the garage this week this for those that have never experienced or subscribed to our other
01:08:29
show off the Record these shows are much closer to what we do on off the Record and you can sign up for that by going to
01:08:36
our website at truecrime garage.com next week we will be back in the garage and doing our traditional shows as one would
01:08:46
expect we hope that you will join us again next week until then be good be kind and don't let it
01:08:58
foreign [Music]