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[Music] % [Music] welcome to True Crime garage wherever you are whatever you're doing thanks for
00:01:46
listening I'm your host Nick and with me as always is a guy that would like to remind us all that flies in the Vaseline
00:01:53
we are here is the captain and the colonel would like to remind you he is half the man he used to be it's it's
00:01:59
good to be seen and good to see you thanks for listening thanks for telling a friend this week we are very happy to be
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featuring raspberry Russian Ending by the good folks over Winter Hill Brewing Company this is a 99.2% ABV delicate
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finished with raspberry and caramel flavors garage grade four out of five bottle caps and let's give some bottle
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caps out to our good friends who helped us out with this week's beer fund first up a nice cheers to Janelle in Chicago
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Illinois and a big we like your jib to Elizabeth in High Point North Carolina and here's a cheers to Barb from right
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here in Columbus Ohio and a big shout out to Sean from Bakersfield and a tiny little shout out to Dakota in peblo
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Colorado and last but certainly not least we have Kylie and Tulsa Oklahoma everyone we just mentioned well they
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helped us out with this week's beer fund and for that we thank you yeah BW Ru in
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beer run a couple new shirts are going to be in the store this week so go check them out today and that is enough of the
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business all right everybody gather around grab a chair grab a beer let's talk some true crime
00:03:36
[Music] can't [Music] a beautiful and beloved young woman is brutally murdered just yards from her
00:04:20
own home her battered body left behind a building like discarded rubbish surely only a sadistic
00:04:29
experience killer could assault and strangle this bubbly popular teen in the middle of a dense City and Retreat
00:04:36
undetected into the night or could the killer be someone closer to her someone whom the young victim loved in trusted
00:04:46
the following is a blog post from Katherine Kerman I vividly recall this day years ago when I was taking the
00:04:55
train home from work not knowing what to expect when when I got there but scared
00:05:01
out of my wits somehow a nun was beside me on the train and reached out to me and helped
00:05:09
me to pray I don't know what I was praying for I just know she may have saved me from losing my mind I recall
00:05:18
every second of that day my Christine also saved me from losing my mind she was my strength when I walked through
00:05:26
the door to my home and her aunt told me indana was dead I did not know what to do I did not know anything I felt like I
00:05:36
was not even present losing my daughter and learning how she was murdered was too difficult to believe or understand I
00:05:45
could not process it at the time as the day went on Deanna's Aunt Kathleen came over and I knew she could
00:05:53
identify with me I found strength from her thank you Kathy in case you never knew it that is true it was when my
00:06:02
brother came that I knew I was horrified he's a Vietnam veteran and I will never
00:06:08
forget talking with him and feeling literally like the floor under my feet was falling and I was falling with it
00:06:15
his presence also helped to save me from losing my mind I am so thankful to all the people who came to my house to be
00:06:23
there for me and for my family now here it is all of these years years later you
00:06:30
know how I feel I am going to solve this murder I'm going to do it soon the person who murdered my daughter Deanna
00:06:39
also severely damaged my family in ways that I cannot explain he did not destroy
00:06:46
me but he came close today I am a force to be reckoned with I believe I can get him and get him without violence if he
00:06:56
is lucky enough for that not to happen I saved him once I won't do it again I just felt I would share these thoughts
00:07:04
today I hope that every member of this group knows how grateful I am for their love and kindness and continuous Support
00:07:12
over the years there are a few people who lack compassion and have been unkind and bottom line undignified and
00:07:22
disgusting but that is on them shame on them I will end it like this I have my grief and my heartbreak tucked away in a
00:07:31
safe place in my heart I have more strength than you can imagine I am so thankful for your kindness there will be
00:07:40
Justice for Deanna kriman I promise this is true crime garage and this is the case of Deanna
00:07:51
[Music] kman [Music] [Music] Deanna Jean kman was born on March 26th 1978 in 1995 she lived in Somerville
00:08:22
Massachusetts with her mom Catherine her stepfather Michael and her brothers and
00:08:28
sister her biological father Albert Rogers lived in New Hampshire now the state border is not far from Somerville
00:08:36
Somerville is a Blue Collar city northwest of Boston with a population of about 81,000 people Diana was born in the
00:08:46
Somerville area but the family moved to California for a short period of time returning when she was 9 years old they
00:08:53
moved into a house on jacqu Street in the winter Hill Neighborhood which Catherine describes as lower
00:09:02
middle class but I think that we should clarify something when we hear Katherine
00:09:07
say lower middle class it's my understanding captain that this is kind of a high cost of living area there's a
00:09:15
lot of people so the houses are in high demand and it's rather expensive area to
00:09:22
live right some people may recall longtime listeners of this show our trail of blood episodes this is episode
00:09:31
number 416 and 417 that we did back in August of 2020 with the guilty party being Edward O'Brien for the murder of
00:09:41
Janet Downing today's case takes place in the same area Somerville Massachusetts and the same year
00:09:50
1995 Deana was close with her sister Christine who was just 17 months older than her they shared a room and bickered
00:09:59
over clothing their younger brothers were Mark 11 years younger and Albert four years younger Dianna was a junior
00:10:08
at Somerville high school she was to a certain extent a normal teenager she hung out with her friends who recall her
00:10:16
laughing all the time she loved to dance and go to the local arcade she stole cigarettes and drank beer behind the
00:10:23
dumpster that's my favorite place to drink beer C it's my kind of girl in one episode her friends recount with smiles
00:10:29
Deanna and her friend cut school one day and went to Dunkin Donuts Deanna's stepfather walks into the Dunkin Donuts
00:10:38
to discover her his stepdaughter cutting school and he collected her and drove her back to school after buying his
00:10:46
coffee Deana was also training to be a cashier at the Star Market this is around the corner from her home where
00:10:56
she had been working for a couple of months she she babysat on the side for extra money but she also gave back to
00:11:03
the community volunteering at the local cable channel Somerville cable access television and working with third
00:11:11
graders at a local school as part of the early childhood development program that
00:11:16
she was enrolled in at shs her plan was to go into teaching now unlike most teens her age Deanna valued her family
00:11:26
spending time with her disabled grandma mother and goofing around with her siblings she loved cats Pizza the color
00:11:34
purple and she hated being short I have here that she was listed at 5' 2 in tall
00:11:41
or 5'2 in short as D may say on the day that she died Deanna wrote out a list of
00:11:49
her life goals this is one of those weird things that you come across in some of these cases these weird stories
00:11:55
where on the same day that she was killed she's writing a list of life goals this was part of a school
00:12:03
assignment her goals as she listed that day were to graduate high school find a job that she enjoyed have a dark green
00:12:11
convertible Mustang have a family a happy family and live a long and healthy life well you also wonder if she wanted
00:12:19
to go into education if she was planning on going to college on the afternoon of
00:12:25
Wednesday August 29th 1995 this is just 3 days before deana's 17th birthday she and her mom found
00:12:34
themselves on the same public bus di was returning to her neighborhood after shopping with friends after school and
00:12:41
Catherine was coming home from her job in Boston Dianna got off the bus and went to her boyfriend Tommy's House
00:12:49
Deanna had been dating Tommy for about 2 years in the years past the two would meet up to do their homework in the
00:12:57
kitchens at one of their homes as they liveed not too far apart Di's Mother Catherine tells us that Tommy was always
00:13:05
polite and quiet when the teens were at her home but this school year Tommy had already graduated from Somerville high
00:13:13
school he's 19 years old in 1995 so he's older than Deanna now Dianna's curfew was 1 p.m. on school
00:13:22
nights on this night she called home and said she would be late she was going to
00:13:28
stay and watch some TV with her boyfriend right Catherine said okay come home after this show's over that you're
00:13:36
watching Catherine says that she fell asleep on the couch around midnight when she woke up she discovered that Dianna
00:13:43
was not home so she called the pager that she had gotten for Deanna for her 17th birthday she had just gave her this
00:13:52
pager a few days earlier but Deanna did not return the page yeah every time I hear the the word pager it's very
00:14:00
nostalgic and a bit silly like when I it's one of those items that seemed very important in the mid 90s it seemed very
00:14:09
cool but it's like I've completely forgotten that they even existed until I till I read some of these old stories
00:14:15
well like you said it's so pointless it's so pointless that one day I got like I don't know five or six pages in a
00:14:22
row and all I could think was so nice that you're telling me to call you but there's no way for me to call you this
00:14:30
item is ridiculous and I rolled it rolled down my window and threw the pager out the window yeah I had one and
00:14:37
I think I paid for a full year's plan and used it for about 30 or 40 days and never used the thing again now Catherine
00:14:47
says that when she woke up she tries to page her daughter Deanna never returns the call she says that she just assumed
00:14:57
that Deana may have stayed over at Tommy's house this is something that would not be the first time that she had
00:15:05
stayed there right so she was planning on you know giving Deanna the what for when she got home you know she didn't
00:15:14
call and ask if she could stay she just called and said she would be late well like look we we know her mother fell
00:15:21
asleep on the couch it's possible sometimes teenagers are watching a movie and they end up falling asleep so on
00:15:28
Thursday March 30th this is when Katherine got up to get ready for her day she discovers that Dianna's not home
00:15:37
and she says that around 7 a.m. she called over to Tommy's house and said to Tommy hey put Deanna on the phone Tommy
00:15:46
says she's not here she went home last night now Catherine had to leave to go to work her husband Michael deana's
00:15:56
stepfather called Somerville High School remember this was a school night to make
00:16:01
sure that Deanna was at school right assuming maybe she just went to school that morning well at this point you're
00:16:08
not getting any calls back from your pages you just talked to her boyfriend he said look she went home they're going
00:16:16
there's no sign that she ever came home so at this point you're not worried about scolding her or or grounding her
00:16:24
you're just you want to make sure she's okay so you're calling where she supposed to be Somerville High School
00:16:31
turns out she's not at school either later that day Michael called Catherine at work and said you better come home
00:16:40
this is her her father her stepfather yeah so around 8:00 a.m. that morning two little girls who oddly enough Deanna
00:16:51
occasionally Babys sat they're walking to their Elementary School they take this short cut and they cut behind a
00:17:01
senior citizen housing complex this is on jacqu Street there they find lying near a
00:17:09
chain link fence on the cold ground their Babysitter's Dead Body Deanna was lying on her back and she's not only
00:17:20
dead but she's partially nude yeah this is awful I and just think what these little girls minds are going through now
00:17:28
the spokesperson for the middle sex DA's office said that Deanna died from manual
00:17:36
strangulation someone killed her by putting their hands around her throat and choking her to death it was also
00:17:43
determined that she had been sexually assaulted although how that determination was made has never been
00:17:50
made public right but we have a time frame here I mean we know that she called saying that she'd be home by
00:17:57
midnight so now we have to talk to the boyfriend figure out what time she left but her body's found at 8:00 a.m. so we
00:18:05
have roughly a 8 hour time period well and one thing that we do not have that I really wish that we have here because I
00:18:13
think this would really help to hone in on the best suspect available right and that would be the
00:18:23
determination or you know police can figure out detectives can often figure out usually quite easily if in fact our
00:18:32
victim was killed where she was found right was this the murder scene or was it just a dump job was she killed
00:18:42
elsewhere and placed here that's something they've never stated publicly that I could find and I would love to
00:18:49
know that information well again this is less than a block from her home a couple
00:18:55
questions I'd have for the boyfriend's family is was there some argument that night and if she was heading home what
00:19:04
how would she be heading home mhm is she being dropped off by her boyfriend or is
00:19:09
she walking home uh do you have any clear recollection of that well her murder of course was incredibly shocking
00:19:18
to the city of Somerville this was a nice girl she's hardworking she's fun everybody that knew her loved her her
00:19:27
body was dump very close to her home as you pointed out in her own neighborhood where she should be safe this is a safe
00:19:34
area now to say that people were devastated is really an understatement here in this case over 1,000 people
00:19:42
attended Deanna's funeral her friends blasted Billy Joel's Only the Good Die Young from their cars at the funeral
00:19:50
procession that's a great song which numbered over 150 Vehicles now in our research for
00:19:57
this case we spoke at at length with Katherine KREM and deana's mother who is still pushing for her daughter's case to
00:20:03
be solved after 25 years some of the information Katherine gave us we cannot share with
00:20:12
you because it is being held back by investigators in hopes of a successful prosecution one day but in the interest
00:20:19
of lighting a fire under prosecutors or perhaps even maybe the perpetrator themselves we're going to share a sign
00:20:28
significant amount of information about the case and the prime suspect after Deanna was found police scrambled to
00:20:35
hunt down the killer of this vibrant young girl they processed the scene questioned her friends canvased the
00:20:42
neighborhood they did all the usual things in attempt to resolve this baffling and brutal murder on April 5th
00:20:51
police released a composite sketch of a man quote seen near the place where the body was found
00:20:58
this man was being sought as a potential witness no information was forthcoming the man in the sketch was
00:21:07
described as 40 to 45 years old 5'9 to 5' 11 in tall 1065 lbs this is really kind of weird
00:21:19
and maybe a little unique here Captain because Catherine told us that later she was told that the person who described
00:21:28
this man to police made the whole thing up this was a rather misguided effort to
00:21:36
jumpstart the investigation and maybe flush out some suspects so this eyewitness just
00:21:44
said I I think I saw somebody that looked like this but they just made the whole damn thing up that's correct that
00:21:51
that seems completely irresponsible it's very irresponsible but I think what this
00:21:57
person was attempting to do again a misguided attempt in my opinion what I believe they were
00:22:03
attempting to do was put the heat on the actual suspect making it sound like there was a witness there that could
00:22:13
place the suspect there with the victim but it sounds like this eyewitness had a
00:22:18
suspect in their own mind could be I have no idea but what they were stating was with the description of this man
00:22:25
that this was a potential witness not necessarily a suspect composite right now as time passed a week after the
00:22:35
murder no arrest have been made and the County DA's office which has jurisdiction over criminal matters in
00:22:44
this area said publicly that they did not have a suspect but they were looking at a few people the Somerville mayor uh
00:22:53
at the time confirmed that there were three Persons of Interest in Indiana's murder being looked at by the Somerville
00:23:00
PD well the first has to be her boyfriend that's where she was at the night before he's the last person that
00:23:07
we think she was seen with so obviously he's on the suspect list that's correct Captain the three people that they are
00:23:16
going to be looking at and who are announced by the mayor at the time were in fact one the boyfriend two a first
00:23:26
responder and three some creepy neighborhood rapist [Music] [Music] guy this show is sponsored by better
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[Music] all right we're back cheers mates cheers to you Colonel cheers Captain so in no
00:26:10
particular order let's go through these three suspects suspect number one we will call him Charlie the firefighter
00:26:19
mhm so one week after Deanna's murder a story ran in the Boston Globe saying that investigators questioned a member
00:26:27
of the Somerville Fire Department in deana's death according to that paper the firefighter comes from one of the
00:26:35
city's politically influential families the article cited Victor Pike Deanna's Uncle who told the media that de's
00:26:44
friends from school told the family that one of the firemen at the central firehouse on Broadway had recently
00:26:51
expressed an interest in Deana Deana and her friends would walk by the firehouse
00:26:57
on the their way to and from school right one source told the globe that the firemen had been questioned at least
00:27:05
twice by the police department and do we know how old this fireman is well we're
00:27:10
going to get into that and that's going to add to the mystery a little bit and probably the suspicions surrounding this
00:27:18
man now Catherine her mother told us that she later found out some more information on this firefighter he was
00:27:26
someone well known to her as he had been a classmate of hers that's right the firefighter was about the same age as
00:27:37
Deanna's mother yeah find some of your own age you creep bag well so he's about twice the age of Deanna but he was
00:27:46
someone that somehow he struck up a friendship with Deanna regularly talking with her as she passed by the firehouse
00:27:54
it's called grooming now when Deanna told him that she was practicing driving to get her driver's license right he
00:28:02
offered to take her out driving in his car to teach her how to drive it is not known how many times this happened or
00:28:11
how many times they may have hung out but on one of these so-called driving lessons Deanna's little brother Mark he
00:28:19
tagged along he's sitting in the back seat he later tells his mother that he saw Deanna in this firefighter kissing
00:28:27
at some point this was in the months before she was killed Catherine of course was horrified when she found this
00:28:36
out and believes that this man behaved completely inappropriately but Catherine also believes that he has been for the
00:28:43
most part ruled out by investigators right so he's not he doesn't seem to be high up on the list of suspects well
00:28:51
look again like I said find somebody your own age she's 17 years old she might think she's an adult but at that
00:29:00
age they don't it's hard for for a kid to you know whatever knowledge or sense to understand that that this individual
00:29:10
is praying on them when you're when you're interested in a girl that young when you're that old that you're
00:29:17
becoming a predator at that point yeah and as a taxpayer I would say do your damn job quit trying to pick up young
00:29:25
girls yeah play with your own godamn hoes on your own goddamn time get back to work sir all right suspect number two
00:29:32
we'll call him the creepy rapist Guy this is a man who was considered a possible suspect this is a local
00:29:40
Somerville man who liked to be friend pretty teenage girls drive them around in his neighborhood buying them booze
00:29:50
and cigarettes and trying to get them up to his apartment I found one person online who posted
00:29:57
the following saying that authorities were looking for anyone who had information on this guy and the post
00:30:05
says Antonio D is what this guy's name is AKA Tony or AKA Vinnie no shoes all right since this guy's a
00:30:17
proven [ __ ] bag we will use his real name this is Antonio just's call him uh Tony no shoes I mean that's that's it's
00:30:26
Vinnie noo he no shoes that's degrading enough well since this guy is a proven [ __ ] bag we will use his real name this
00:30:33
is Antonio dealto he went to prison for rape in 1995 the story on him is this many
00:30:42
people mostly females had some contact with this guy he liked to cruise around Somerville and offer young girls rides
00:30:50
right he would then coax them to his apartment where he would often times ask girls who to take off their shoes and
00:30:59
jump up and down H he was known to cruise the winter hill Somerville area and Assembly Square Mall areas amongst
00:31:09
others so the no shoes Vinnie no shoes comes from the the weird idea that he's asking these young
00:31:18
girls to take off their shoes I've never um I I've never really understood the foot fetish thing well police were
00:31:26
desperate for anyone to come forward who had information on this guy specifically
00:31:31
so here's their plea to the public and persons in deana's neighborhood and school do any of you know any contact
00:31:39
Deanna may have had with this man please don't be afraid to come forward we are running out of time every bit of
00:31:46
information helps this man is an extremely dangerous sex offender he is due to be released from prison in
00:31:54
September of 2007 he is has been serving time for sexual assault and attempted murder
00:32:00
since the summer of 1995 so he was active and violent in the same year that Deanna was murdered yeah
00:32:09
and we know that Deanna was sexually assaulted and she was murdered this guy was charged and and put away because he
00:32:19
raped and attempted murder so we know that this guy he's a he's a [ __ ] but we also know that he's capable of crimes
00:32:27
like like this and police specified that this man Antonio is from Brazil although
00:32:33
many in the neighborhood thought that he was Italian but he's in the system so they should have his DNA they should be
00:32:40
able to test it against the DNA found at the crime scene possibly but then again
00:32:46
you got to keep in mind they weren't always collecting offenders DNA different states started up those
00:32:53
programs at different times I know here in Ohio that we've only been doing that for a decade maybe two at the very most
00:33:03
so depending on when they started that up in Massachusetts he may not be in the system what they were afraid of is that
00:33:11
when they're going to let this guy out of prison in September of 2007 they're saying we're running out of time because
00:33:20
they think this dude if he's guilty of other crimes particularly murder that he might just flee back to his Original
00:33:30
Country right the media reported that this suspect was imprison in Massachusetts correctional institute uh
00:33:37
although they I wasn't able to find out much about this guy although I did locate some sources that confir
00:33:44
confirmed his 1995 conviction and the scheduled release in 2007 right Katherine deana's
00:33:53
mother told us that this guy was a known sex offender he's a creep he prayed on teen girls although the woman that he
00:34:02
eventually went to prison for raping was older we should point that out again we
00:34:07
don't know whether this guy was officially cleared in Deanna's case but he was looked at and they were asking
00:34:16
for law enforcement was asking for more information about this guy specifically if anybody knew Deanna had ever been in
00:34:25
contact with this guy well and even though his victim was older that I don't think that proves anything we have
00:34:31
knowledge of him taking younger girls back to his apartment now suspect number three is the boyfriend of course we've
00:34:39
mentioned him several times before in this story we're calling him Tommy the boyfriend yeah or AKA Tommy two shoes
00:34:48
now Savvy True Crime devoted listeners will notice by now that we have thus far largely avoided discussing this third
00:34:57
suspect in the case right he is as you pointed out Captain believed to be the last man to see Deanna alive boy the
00:35:07
first man on investigators list or boy of course anyone's going to look at Tommy the boyfriend in this case because
00:35:16
he's the boyfriend but again because he is saying he's the last person to have seen her that night and as we know
00:35:23
Deanna was over at his house somewhat late we just cannot determine what time she supposedly left on that Wednesday
00:35:32
night the couple's normal routine this is where things get really suspicious and look really bad for this
00:35:41
guy Tommy TWU their normal routine when Deanna was over at his house is that after they were done hanging out he
00:35:50
would walk her all of the way to her home right and often they would sit on the front porch and hang out you know
00:35:59
extend their visit if you will on the front porch after he walked her home so what is he claiming happened that night
00:36:07
well I want to point out that his home is 6 miles from her residence not far not far and again normal routine was for
00:36:18
Tommy to walk Deanna home now Tommy says on that night on March 29th he walked her half of the way home the
00:36:30
boy's getting lazy that he parted ways at the heath in bond streets intersection uhhuh Deanna was found at
00:36:39
125 jock Street per the boston.com her body was found so close to that spot it cannot be described in miles but in feet
00:36:52
about 400 feet from where he says that he walked her to that night her body is found at 8:00 a.m. the next
00:37:00
morning very suspicious very weird very bizarre again that's where you want the information do detectives believe she
00:37:10
was killed in the spot that she was found but does this uh Tommy two shoes does he have uh any violent history I
00:37:18
mean they dated you said for two years is there would have to be some kind of Rumblings of uh violence against her or
00:37:27
maybe verbal abuse or something well we'll get into some of that but there doesn't seem to be really any of that
00:37:35
again we have Deanna's mother saying that she knew this kid and knew him well and there was no violence in their
00:37:44
relationship all it takes is once though right so well of course everyone finds it
00:37:51
incredibly suspicious that on the night that she happened to be killed it's it's
00:37:56
the one time that he didn't walk her all the way to her house does he have a reason yes he says that he and his good
00:38:06
friend his best friend his name will will will say is Jason Jason jockstrap and Tommy twoo
00:38:13
that the two of them ordered some food a food delivery that he wanted to get back
00:38:20
to accept the food delivery that he was he had a limited amount of time to walk her home now now now his his friend
00:38:28
didn't walk with them no that's correct and this friend Jason lived very close to Tommy's house this is the weird part
00:38:39
so he has an alibi right he has his friend Jason who says yes that's what happened he shows up at my house we
00:38:46
ordered some food and by the way they even have the receipt to show that to investigators look you probably don't
00:38:53
know the details on which direction the friend lived in in but you're you're talking what do you say 400 ft from
00:39:01
where he left her you'd think if this guy lived in the vicinity and he's waiting for his friend to show up that
00:39:07
he would have heard some Rumblings well no the friend lived near Tommy's house right so 6 miles away is
00:39:18
Deanna's home the friend Jason his home backed up to the back of Tommy's house right so he still close
00:39:27
still a little more than a quarter mile that's not that far you think he'd hear something and also well I don't think
00:39:34
she was killed there is what I think went went down I think that this is a bit of a
00:39:42
manufactured uh Alibi but but we can get into to that I want to go through what Katherine her mother
00:39:50
says cuz she believes that maybe Dianna was going to break up with Tommy and maybe even break up with him that night
00:39:58
so she could start dating the Old firefighter old crusty yeah that could be who knows but she says that at the
00:40:07
time you know before Deanna was killed she didn't see any of this but later seemed to be able to piece this
00:40:16
together she thought that she later learned that Tommy seemed to be very possessive of her daughter MH this is
00:40:25
because Catherine found a bunch of letters that Tommy wrote to Deanna which she says shows some very strong
00:40:33
indicators of this possessive Behavior almost to the point which she says she called it being obsessive now after
00:40:42
Deana died Tommy's best friend Jason told Catherine that anytime Deanna left the room even to just go to the bathroom
00:40:51
or to get a drink right Tommy would really kind of give it to her you know asking her where she was going really
00:40:59
kind of overbearing stuff like ponytail Derek again there were no signs of violence in this relationship although
00:41:06
there was one time that Catherine later recalled when Tommy could not find Deanna that he showed up at her
00:41:13
home and he's he's like clutching the doorway you know and very angrily asking and
00:41:22
demanding to know where Dena Deana was well yeah hold on a second let's let's not throw this guy completely under the
00:41:31
bus because if there's rumors or some Rumblings that she is doing some driving lessons with this older firefighter so
00:41:40
who knows what kind of stories that she was telling him so he might have heard oh well I just saw your girlfriend in a
00:41:48
car with a older man you know and and she's not answering her pager or something I I could see why that would
00:41:55
be upsetting to a 19-year-old boy well and I mean you got to keep in mind they were together for about 2 years
00:42:03
so that that situation does not have to go along with the firefighter situation no it doesn't I'm just saying that we we
00:42:14
we do have uh people saying that she was taking these driving lessons and making
00:42:18
out with this older firefighter during the time that they were dating right and that's what one thing that Catherine
00:42:25
points out out that that either she believes either Deanna was going to break up with Tommy that
00:42:35
night or maybe they had a fight that night and it could really be about anything but possibly about the
00:42:43
firefighter situation question for you uh what time does Tommy twoo call his buddy to set up this hey after I drop
00:42:55
off my girlfriend and then I'll hang out at your house that's some information that I do not have um the detectives
00:43:04
would have that information as again he did provide a receipt for this food delivery so they would have that time
00:43:12
and and know that timeline I do not have that information this seems pretty late
00:43:17
for food delivery yeah I it's a busy area I would imagine you could get food delivered at 11: 12:00 again but also
00:43:26
school night so it's not like the weekend so less things were probably open it's also in the '90s just less
00:43:33
yeah but I me open in general you always talk about the '90s like it's a hundred
00:43:37
years ago I you get I remember getting it's quite a while ago it was right it's 25 years ago 26 years ago I can remember
00:43:45
getting food delivered at 11 12:00 on a on a week night but Catherine goes on to
00:43:53
say that Deanna would have had multiple reasons she believes for breaking up with Tommy
00:43:59
that they you know how it's kind of young love right you grow up and you kind of grow apart and they didn't
00:44:06
really share the same circle of friends Deanna was getting older and Tommy was they had different personalities
00:44:14
Katherine describes Deanna as happy gol lucky uh while Tommy is described as a bit of a black cloud you know if they
00:44:24
were in a group situation he wouldn't get involved he would kind of sit off to himself well and also when you have a a
00:44:33
relationship where one is in high school and one is not normally the one that's not in high school doesn't want to do
00:44:41
the high school stuff homecoming I don't want to go to that prom I don't want to
00:44:45
go to that I'm too cool for that I'm too old for that I've been there done that and what is a girl in high school want
00:44:51
to what does she want to do she wants to go to all those events and be around her
00:44:56
friends in the weeks and the months after the murder Tommy behaved somewhat strangely um for someone who professed
00:45:04
to love Deanna he didn't seem to act that way after her death he did attend the funeral he was quite attentive to
00:45:14
Catherine at the funeral but he did not participate in any of the memorials or vigils dedicated to Deanna when
00:45:24
Catherine went over to try to talk to him this would be about 3 weeks after Deanna's Murder She wanted to get some
00:45:33
clear-cut answers to some questions she had about what happened that night from Tommy right she says that he acted
00:45:41
terrified when Katherine talked about the case uh asking him questions and she told him that night that she thought
00:45:51
that the case would be solved very soon and he seemed to be very terrified at this statement right it's almost like a
00:45:59
she hit a nerve he's been somewhat Cooperative with the police okay so he did lawyer up I don't not going to fault
00:46:09
anyone for getting an attorney it's the responsible thing to do right but he very quickly put him himself in a
00:46:18
situation where he's not talking to police or detectives unless his attorney is there he's got the the lawyer wall
00:46:27
between law enforcement and himself he has refused to take a lie detector test which again yeah I'm not going to
00:46:36
fault anybody for that I don't know that I would ever agree to take one well what
00:46:40
we look what we've said about lie detector test is there's normally three results that you passed or you're
00:46:47
deceptive or it's inconclusive so two of the three results are negative well and
00:46:56
if you're innocent there's really no upside to to the test at all for you so this is
00:47:04
the weird thing though he and Jason both pled the fifth at a grand jury inquiry into the murder so they
00:47:16
both refuse to answer questions on the grounds that they might incriminate themselves right they said that shady is
00:47:26
they said this had to do with they knew a smalltime drug dealer and that they were
00:47:33
that the questions would have led to information about that situation right and they didn't want to incriminate
00:47:41
themselves in Breaking the Law in that manner that it didn't have anything to do with the murder but again one thing
00:47:50
that I always tell people and that I always point to especially in in this type of case where look the mayor says
00:47:59
we got three suspects that we're looking at Tommy he looks better than the other
00:48:04
two in my opinion the creepy rapist guy yeah we know him to be violent and he's he's a despicable human being but we
00:48:14
don't even know if there was any contact between the two of them if they did they
00:48:19
even know each other at all yeah yeah or I mean I guess he could have tried to pick her up that night but still again
00:48:25
with Tommy we we know that they knew each other well we know that the spouse is usually uh a good suspect and two
00:48:34
he's he's already he has two shoes known to have been with the victim a short period of time before her
00:48:42
murder yeah and then the alteration of the stories I mean not that he is changing it but it's kind of strange
00:48:49
that you didn't walk her home that night you normally walk her home it wasn't even like it was that much further along
00:48:56
and then they find her body like you said 400 ft from from where he claims they parted and then
00:49:05
this weird hangout and look look look I know the90s was not a hundred years ago not that odd for a 19-year-old to be
00:49:16
going to hang out with his buddy I also question what is his buddy doing uh how old was his buddy was his buddy living
00:49:25
with parents to those parents work regular shifts it's pretty late to be look if I if I had a 19-year-old kid and
00:49:35
his buddy stopped by on a school night a night that I had to work after midnight
00:49:40
and the ordered food to me that's a little late too late maybe I'm an old kudan but I'm just
00:49:46
saying I think that's a little too late it's Fourth meal now two months after Deanna was killed Tommy's own mother was
00:49:56
granted a restraining order against her son this is per the Boston Globe Tommy's
00:50:03
mom sought protection in court from her son Tommy aged 19 at that time who was one of about 100 people who were
00:50:12
questioned by police investigating Dianna's murder a family friend told the reporter that the restraining order was
00:50:20
not related to Deanna's case she would say only that Tommy had threatened his mom who he was living with at the time
00:50:30
no hold on it's it's related in the sense that it shows his character this guy is going to be abusive towards women
00:50:39
his own mother so it's not that far of a cry to think that this guy would be abusive towards his own girlfriend yes
00:50:47
so this is again per the article quote things had been going on in the house that did not make her very comfortable
00:50:54
meaning the mother he meaning Tommy has a pretty bad temper but he never hurt her the problems had been exacerbated by
00:51:02
his mood swings following his girlfriend's killing according to the article his mother who had some health
00:51:09
issues was eager for Tommy to get the help she believed that he needed so Tommy moved out of the house and this is
00:51:16
when he moves in with his friend Jason before going on to live at another place uh with his uncle which is in another
00:51:26
part of the state of Massachusetts based on all of these behaviors and actions plus additional
00:51:32
information that she was told by authorities and confidence Katherine kreman has stated overtly that although
00:51:39
she initially didn't want to believe it she now thinks that Tommy was responsible for what happened to Deanna
00:51:47
she believes that the authorities came to this same conclusion but they've not been able to
00:51:54
get enough evidence to put forth charges or theyve just not it wouldn't be that hard to get his DNA not done a great job
00:52:03
on the investigation I mean she could even hire a a pi to get a sample of his DNA the problem is he's the boyfriend
00:52:13
though because if if it's sexual assault that's why I pointed out that I don't know how they arrived at that
00:52:23
determination right it would be important to the case to know more about that aspect of the crime as well as the
00:52:31
crime scene itself if she was believed to have been killed in that location or at that location because with the sexual
00:52:39
assault if you find someone else's DNA in regards to the sexual assault MH that gives you a suspect a murder
00:52:50
suspect if you find Tommy's DNA well we know that they were boyfriend girlfriend they had a
00:52:58
long-term relationship she was at his house that night it can be explained away yeah but he he doesn't have to be
00:53:06
the killer to be you know he doesn't have to be a rapist and a killer in her situ in this situation he could simply
00:53:12
be the boyfriend and the killer again if I'm if I'm the mother I'm the father if I'm a f family friend or or
00:53:21
just a friend I'm hiring a private investigator I'm getting his DNA I'm having it tested or getting it at least
00:53:27
to police to say look here's his DNA because what police have is the records of actually talking to Tommy and maybe
00:53:37
Tommy said hey we uh yeah we made out and stuff but no no we didn't have sex that night we don't know what he has
00:53:44
answered uh in the interviews with police now unfortunately after Deanna's murder Katherine's marriage to Michael
00:53:53
kreman fell apart you know we've seen this time and time again in these cases where bereaved parents are dealing with
00:54:00
their grief in different ways Katherine descended into alcoholism she lost her job at the accounting department she
00:54:09
lost her house and she temporarily lost custody of two of her three other kids uh two of them were minors at this time
00:54:20
it took years for her to pull herself back together de's sister Christine had to step in and act as a parental figure
00:54:30
as a parental figure to her two little brothers for some time she said to boston.com quote my mother and father
00:54:38
both fell apart I had to be the mother to my two brothers at 18 years old want to applaud her effort and her love
00:54:48
towards her family she said that it it she said that it wasn't Deanna dying it was like my whole family pretty much
00:54:57
died devastated by the loss of Deanna and the disintegration of the family Michael kreman died in
00:55:07
2008 at the age of just 58 wow and it stated quote he truly died a Broken Man over the loss of Deanna it destroyed him
00:55:17
and tragically Deanna's Sister Christine died at the age of 40 in 2017 without ever seeing her sister's case solved
00:55:27
yeah again this is a tough one I mean you think that again with the three suspects it's hard to know where the the
00:55:34
local creep is but look if this guy is a rapist and attempted murderer it's probably just
00:55:43
going to get worse and worse for him as far as the crimes and he might possibly be back in jail right now for all we
00:55:51
know is it worse for parents of a Murder Ed child to feel that nothing is happening in the investigation that no
00:56:00
one is really working on the case or is it worse if parents are continually told
00:56:07
that there is hope that there is movement on the case only to have their hopes dashed over and over again because
00:56:16
the latter is what has happened for Katherine kreman authorities keep dangling a resolution and then it fails
00:56:24
to to materialize yeah and and we've seen that like within the deli murders it seems
00:56:32
like they keep saying hey we're we're one piece away well you've been saying that for four years so maybe maybe
00:56:40
you're more than one piece away uh you know I don't know it's it's very difficult because the same way with like
00:56:47
missing person cases I used to fault the family for not wanting to get heavily involved but then you've seen families
00:56:56
that get heavily involved in a case and then they get railroaded so the more we do this the
00:57:03
more on a case-by Case basis the family the individual has to decide what's correct for them and it's just it's such
00:57:12
a tragic thing to see again I love how they describe her they don't describe her as perfect but she was perfect to
00:57:19
them with all her flaws she was perfect to them and to see how much this can crush a family and alter so many
00:57:28
people's lives it's it's it's sad and it's pathetic and it's and it's also pathetic that we live in a society where
00:57:37
just because you're female that puts a motive on your back for murder or rape or whatever I mean
00:57:47
it's pathetic I guess I guess having hope is not a bad thing if if you're going to dive into the case doing as
00:57:56
much research as you can uh and collecting your own evidence listening to the cops I think is important but
00:58:03
doing your own research and your own investigation would be important as well well I want to go through some of the
00:58:10
timeline of things that have taken place since the murder so on the 10th anniversary if you will
00:58:19
of Deanna's murder the Boston Globe article a Boston Globe article ran that said authorities said yesterday they are
00:58:26
closer than they have ever been to finding the person who killed Deanna the middle sex District Attorney's office
00:58:33
said that the new forensic technology has helped authorities make progress in the case and that investigators are
00:58:41
looking for specific people who they believe know what happened in the last couple of months we believe we've made
00:58:48
some developments on the forensic front this was said by the district attor attorney however the district attorney
00:58:57
declined to provide specific details right but did say we do believe that a person or people know about this murder
00:59:06
and may have seen this murder and we urge them to come forward this article goes on to quote Catherine and says I
00:59:15
believe I know who is the person responsible but I am not allowed to talk about it I don't want to hurt the
00:59:23
investigation so that was in 2005 but nothing happened no charges no arrest all that happened was that six different
00:59:33
District Attorneys have since been in office over the years and every time that a new one comes in the
00:59:42
investigation gets a bump gets hyped up a little bit right and then nothing ever
00:59:48
really happens in 2009 the new district attorney stated that the murder would be solved but law
00:59:55
enforcement needed Witnesses who had remained silent to come forward again nothing did the new district attorney
01:00:02
come forward and say it's going to take another six District Attorneys to get this thing solved well six more years
01:00:08
passed and in 2015 another article ran in the Boston Herald this time saying that the case is
01:00:15
still an open and very active investigation the district attorney at that time added that within the past 6
01:00:22
months let's just say there's been some advances in the case but would not comment further around that same time
01:00:30
boston.com contained the following information evidence is being reanalyzed using
01:00:38
forensic technology that didn't exist 20 years ago this according to the district
01:00:44
attorney this continues to be a very active investigation but the family has heard this obviously before and it's
01:00:52
just frustrating that that they keep being told that this is going to be solved and that they're going to get
01:01:02
some action here and some results and it just doesn't seem to be going anywhere well the thing is and and we know this
01:01:11
as as time goes on that technology gets better and th this is definitely a field
01:01:17
of Technology we we need smart individuals that are passionate about solving crimes to get involved in the
01:01:24
Sciences Behind These and we're going to start seeing hundreds of cold cases solved because of new technology and
01:01:31
it's just pathetic that there is there's some scumbag piece of [ __ ] out there that's been out there living a free life
01:01:40
while this family suffers well and I think the situation that they're really looking for here look that's what they
01:01:47
have to say kind of publicly hey we're we're making some movement on this case it's really heating up we're going to
01:01:54
solve this thing soon but notice every time they say that they are asking for witnesses to come forward right well
01:02:02
it's almost an excuse to get it back in the papers or on the news to say that there's we've made some movement on this
01:02:09
case is it really just you're just throwing that out there because you're reminding the public that this murder
01:02:16
happened that this young girl who had a big bright future ahead of her was killed in a very violent way and
01:02:24
personal way in my opinion and we need witnesses to come forward we need people to tell us that person a was not where
01:02:34
they say they were that night person a did not do what they said they did that night yeah it could be as simple as the
01:02:42
boyfriend's friend coming forward and saying hey story didn't go down the way he said it did there was some
01:02:50
information that came out in 2017 and I'm not going to I'm not going to go through the full
01:02:56
story because at first I thought this was really something here in this case it made some sense when I first started
01:03:03
looking at it there was information that came out that said that it was a cover up at the time that the the whole thing
01:03:10
was covered up by the mayor's office in 1995 that they were investigating someone that was somehow connected to
01:03:20
powerful people and that the mayor office may have covered it up somehow the reason
01:03:27
why I don't want to stay on this very long is because Deanna's family does not believe that that is in any way true at
01:03:35
all and I think that the thing that we can cite here is the Somerville mayor at the time publicly stated that the police
01:03:45
department was looking at three suspects and Deanna's mother says that the mayor at the time back in '95 has
01:03:53
been one of the most supportive people in this entire case supportive throughout the the years right uh over
01:04:03
and over again so right but to cover something up you need to be extra supportive if if she doesn't believe it
01:04:09
if the family doesn't believe it I don't believe it I don't know that this is any
01:04:14
credible information at all again the the problem with any type of cover up is a lot of these people get into positions
01:04:23
where they're trying to serve the community they get in those positions CU they're good people that want to make a
01:04:28
difference so for those people to just turn a blind eye to this 17-year-old child being murdered you have to be a
01:04:39
low down pile of scum to to do that I'm not saying that coverups don't happen I'm just saying that it's normally where
01:04:49
this whole institution is turning a blind eye or this whole organization or you know sometimes people go oh well
01:04:56
it's a cover up by the police department so you're telling me 20 good people are
01:05:01
turning a blind eye to a murder uh it normally just doesn't line up or add up it seems like Deanna's
01:05:10
family believes that it's generally known who killed Deanna but that the case is stalled because of a lack of
01:05:18
evidence or at least that's what they've been told by the district attorney now whether or not a
01:05:24
prosecution could be successful based on what they have or what we've seen that's
01:05:30
been released to the public is really just a matter of opinion you know we've seen circumstantial evidence against
01:05:38
Tommy the boyfriend the fact that he didn't walk her home the fact that he hasn't cooperated the fact that he was
01:05:45
the last person to see her that he had two but then you have to wonder what is the actual physical evidence again we
01:05:52
want to know more about the crime scene more about the evidence authorities are not saying what they have or what they
01:05:59
do not have and it has been stated however that Deanna was sexually assaulted but again it's not known how
01:06:09
they came to that conclusion so one thing that investigators are not talking about in
01:06:16
this case is DNA you know it seems to me that had they found DNA on Deana that did not
01:06:23
belong to Tommy the boyfriend or a family member if there was stranger DNA on her then
01:06:32
that would have been revealed at some point over the years well and like you said I mean you go well Tommy's her
01:06:40
boyfriend so of course his DNA is going to be on her touch DNA is going to be on
01:06:44
her but if there's nobody else's DNA on her then Bingo well and the thing too Captain why would this not be
01:06:54
revealed because one it would help the public it might help these witnesses that you keep asking for come forward
01:07:02
and if there was stranger DNA in theory that would virtually clear Tommy from any suspicion at all when we
01:07:11
start questioning why the cops did this and why didn't they do this or why AR why aren't they coming out with more
01:07:16
information that's why you say well no [ __ ] the case hasn't been solved yeah and I I really think that we're going to
01:07:24
start learning more from this a as time goes on and in cases that are not solved
01:07:30
from the80s cases that are not solv from the 90s that law enforcement now is going to say hey we need eyewitnesses to
01:07:38
come forward in this murder case that happened over the weekend we have to come out now with information because we
01:07:46
can't wait 10 years we can't wait 20 years when people move out of the area people stop talking about it you again
01:07:53
you said oh well the '90s man it's it's not that long ago it feels to me like a million years ago so if you have an
01:08:02
individual that kind of has some suspicion or maybe did see Tommy walking a little bit further with his girlfriend
01:08:10
that night than he claims he did well so much time has gone past you're not going
01:08:16
to sit around and feel guilty or bad about it you probably moved on or you probably convinced yourself that maybe
01:08:25
you didn't see it that way you see what I'm saying MH so as time goes on you're less likely to get a witness that is
01:08:33
sitting around all worried about it or somebody that maybe at first was scared that if it was Tommy two shoes that he's
01:08:44
going to come after them well now after 20 years maybe no contact with Tommy T shoes and they're going hey I don't feel
01:08:53
any threat I don't feel any reason for coming forward it's none of my business well I will I will try to put this in a
01:09:01
in a brighter light with a little bit of optimism here because in 2019 the district attorney announced the
01:09:10
launch of a new Cold Case unit so of course they're going to be looking at murders and cold cases in that area so I
01:09:20
think that that is a positive move especially in a case that I think is a little cold after all of these
01:09:29
years now Katherine her mother has been a fierce advocate for her daughter for her daughter's case not only has she
01:09:37
spoken publicly about the case on TV and in podcast and in articles but she's also the administrator of the justice
01:09:45
for Deanna kreman Facebook page and has written a blog post about the case she has organized marches demonstration
01:09:54
where she yells for justice through a megaphone and she has made it clear over and over again to Tommy that she
01:10:02
suspects him of killing her daughter she has told Tommy time and time again that
01:10:08
she will continue to be a pain in the ass until the case is solved and her only real hope in light of the failure
01:10:17
of the authorities to prosecute the case is that he may crack at some point and confess what he has done despite all the
01:10:27
challenges facing the kemman family they have done a remarkable job of managing to keep Deanna Spirit Alive for now over
01:10:36
25 years in 1997 they got a billboard erected in Somerville that advertised a reward for information in the case the
01:10:47
billboard is renewed annually on it appears the amount of the reward which is currently
01:10:54
$70,000 $7,000 and the words on the billboard say quote you know what you did to me
01:11:04
how much longer must I wait please help make my time in heaven restful there are
01:11:11
trees and benches around the city that are dedicated to Deanna the Deana kemman reward scholarship gives $500 annually
01:11:20
to a recipient in the child development program at shs where Deanna was enrolled in 2013
01:11:29
hundreds of people gathered to observe the 18th anniversary of Dianna's Murder By symbolically walking her home
01:11:38
marching from the intersection where Tommy says he left her to the family's home Katherine now has three
01:11:45
grandchildren her granddaughter's middle name is Deanna anyone with information regarding Deanna kerman's death can
01:11:52
contact the middle sex County District Attorney's office at 617679600 or the Somerville police
01:12:02
department at 617-625-1600 [Music] if you need more True Crime Garage in your earballs check out our bonus show
01:12:24
called off the Record it's only on Stitcher premium also all of our old episodes are available everywhere
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Spotify Apple podcast Stitcher app and now on SiriusXM app Colonel do we have any recommended reading I own a couple
01:12:42
of books from this father daughter writing Duo this is the new book from David Meers and Elise Meers Walker and
01:12:49
it's titled A murder in Amish Ohio the martyrdom of Paul coblin it's kind of weird cuz last week we recommended
01:12:57
Harold sher's new book Maniac and I said he is one of the greatest True Crime historians well David Meers and Elise
01:13:04
are some of the very best crime historians when it comes to the great state of Ohio as these two unravel some
01:13:11
of Ohio's most intriguing murder cases check out their latest a murder in Amish Ohio you can find that great title and
01:13:20
many more on our recommended page at True Crime garage want to thank everybody for listening
01:13:25
and joining us here in the garage until next week be good be kind and don't [Music]
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