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foreign [Music] [Applause] foreign foreign garage wherever you are whatever you are
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doing thanks for listening I'm your host Nick and with me as always as a man that
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just informed me that the True Crime garage Army has gone bazooka he is the captain I've always been a Bubblicious
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man myself but it's good to be seen and it's good to see you thanks for listening thanks for telling a friend
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[Music] tonight we are drinking brawler by yards Brewing Company from the City of
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Brotherly Love Philadelphia Pennsylvania garage grade three and a half bottle caps out of five brawler is an English
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ale that is delicately hopped for knockout flavor and its smooth character adds to its drink ability and yards
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brawler was brought to us by our garage brothers and sisters first up we have Sharon and Calandra Queensland Australia
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and you find them in the iTunes Store as well alright that's enough of the business gather around grab a chair grab
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a beer let's talk some true crime [Music] this was a case that you wrote about yeah I I actually wrote about this case
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when I was still a crime reporter I was working at the free times up in Cleveland in 2006 about a year after he
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disappeared how much time did you spend looking into raise case um I I'd say it was a good month to six
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weeks kind of learning the ins and outs of of the Greek our disappearance and you know we only had we only had a
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little bit of information at the time uh because it was only about a year after he disappeared but it was already it
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struck me as a mystery that was going to last it was very weird in the same way that more Murray's case kind of stuck
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out for me because just like Maura Murray here we have somebody who disappeared there's no evidence of a crime
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and it the clues can take you any way you want to go you've got possible suicide you've got motive for murder was
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it a murder did he walk away to start a new life somewhere there's evidence for that too and beyond that
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there's like uh there's like a a sparkle of the Paranormal in this one too that suggests some sort of connection to of
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all things and I know how crazy this is oh here we go time travel okay um and and I want to get into it James
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has lost his mind I've just lost all credibility but but stick around you'll like there's there's some neat things
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that that uh about Greek are and and this idea of time I'm not saying he he was uh time traveler I'm saying he he might
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have disappeared in a way that would lead people to believe that anyways we'll get right okay
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um so yeah you have the you've set up the case well the the particulars of the case
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um but you know I I guess we could go you know in order of you know possibilities here you know
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look at suicide I and I kind of don't think it's you know I I don't think it's suicide but to support that you've got
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the fact that his brother Roy disappeared in 1996. and his body was found in the river
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and then you look at regrikar and his Mini Cooper was found by the river and that's where he disappeared
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they eventually found his computer and hard drive in the river the some fishermen fished up the hard drive or
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some fishermen fished up the laptop and then about a month later a woman finds the hard drive so but then they never
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found Ray's body and if you're going to jump into a river if you're going to walk into a river you know do the was it
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Virginia wool for uh you know weigh your pockets down with the rocks and walk in
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the body's gonna turn up it's really hard to get rid of a body by committing suicide by jumping into a river it'll
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it'll float it'll show up it'll you know we found the laptop we found the hard drive but no Ray so right so it almost
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leads the the evidence that he did jump in because you found those other items but again yeah if he did where's the
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where's the body there to support that theory you know you've got you know some people look at at how he was looking to
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retire and you know didn't really know what to do with himself and uh you know was looking at that and kind of
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depressed and you know he had his his job was his life more so than any of the women because he'd been married twice
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and divorced twice and he was saying this this co-worker there so um when you see that a lot with men is
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their their work is their identity once they lose their work they lose their identity and they don't know what to do
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with themselves so you're so the theory is that oh I'm going to retire and I'm I'm
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nobody anymore so I'll just end it but another thing about the the suicide theory is that he had this daughter
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Laura and and by all accounts you know he loved her very much and and they were close when she was growing up in fact he
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was kind of when they moved there his wife had the job and he was stay-at-home dad
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now it's it's interesting to note that Laura is is adopted um it's not his biological daughter and
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I've never really figured out the the backstory to that like how that adoption process worked was it
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did they adopt from somebody that they knew or did they go through the typical adoption process and it was you know
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um so that that's something I'd really like to know about but if it was suicide Rey didn't really set things up to take
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care of Laura and his absence this is one of the more interesting things about Rey in my opinion he was the D.A of
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Center County Penn State you know is his jurisdiction but when he died he there's almost no
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money in his his accounts um his bank account has hardly any money in it there's he he never bought
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anything in his name the car was in his girlfriend's name he had no assets so where's all that money that he was
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making did he really spend it all did he not budget well or or did he have some sort of separate
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account you know the police looked at the suicide Theory and thought maybe he had been contemplating suicide for a
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while because the day before his disappearance he was seen in another body of water
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near this Reservoir and he seemed to be like walking around and kind of contemplating life the witnesses said
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and you know he was he thinking about his brother and reminiscing about that and wondering about that so you know
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there's that possibility of suicide um just like the more case though there are a lot of rabbit holes that you could
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go down because there are clues that don't seem to make much sense uh you go back to the Mini Cooper there was some
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cigarette Ash found inside the car he was vehemently against smoking he didn't smoke himself it smelled of smoke when
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the detectives opened the car as if somebody had just been smoking before shutting it up and his cell phone was in
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there so who was smoking in that car right um there was a witness uh at this antique like Mall antique store where
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the Mini Cooper was found it was found in this parking lot Ray was seen there with an unidentified woman
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um beautiful you know attractive woman so who was that you know what does she have to do with with this whole thing he
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was very much a charmer you know he very private person on one on one hand very private but
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was also very flirtatious with with women and it was known you know at the local Diner to you know pick favorite
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waitresses and always you know flirt with them and um you know always be you know with with
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his other wives there was always you know these rumors of infidelity and you know hanging out with women and so did
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that have something to do with his disappearance was that on his mind uh or did he have a
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a side piece right that was thou breaking it off or who was married yeah or who was breaking it off yeah or or
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maybe he was not telling some of these ladies that he was married and had a kid and you know I mean like yeah well he
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wasn't married at the time of his disappearance okay he was he had a he had this girlfriend that was they were
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living together they were very you know of course right but still the he could have been telling you know the girls
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that he meets all while I'm single right and I don't have anybody in my life and
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blah blah and then once the you know the side piece then finds out he does have a
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life they're like well I'm gonna tell on you right because that happens often whoever this was hasn't come out you
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know since The Disappearance then you look at the case for murder and you know there are a lot of times I kind of lean
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this way because there's definitely motive for murder and but at the time in 2006 when I reported on this it seemed
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very unlikely like who would have had the who would have had the balls kill a D.A in Center County well you know five
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years later after my article came out Jerry Sandusky is arrested and charged with all these counts of you know
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molesting boys at Penn State and then it comes out that the prosecutor in charge of Center
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County who was Ray greekar knew about this in 1998 yeah he had investigated it for he had investigated for some time
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having spoken to one of the victims right however they had no evidence to pursue the charges
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other than this boy's statement the boy's statement and they actually got Sandusky to come in and and they like
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taped this interview where it was this weird thing that Rey had set up where he got the boy in the same room as Sandusky
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just to see like what Sandusky would say or his body language and there was an expert there that told that told Greek
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or he's like look this guy you know without a doubt this guy's a pedophile and you know he could have
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charged Sandusky at that time and saved you know maybe further victimization or whatever
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but if if anybody really runs Center County Penn State at that time it's Joe Paterno right right
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um this revered you know coach and you know his reputation as we saw was destroyed along with sandusky's uh the
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question is you know how much he knew and for how long was it Rey's ultimate decision to not prosecute Sandusky was
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it was it somebody else was it Paterno was it was it pressure from somewhere you know was this something that that
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Greek are always felt guilty about and I wonder if you know he was looking at retiring in December
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of 2005 he disappeared in April was he thinking about opening that case opening that can of worms before he
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retired so that he would have a clear conscience and be able to go on um was he reopening that and did he you
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know did he meet with Paterno did he meet with Sandusky or or somebody else that was you know wrapped up in all this
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and was it that person was he trying to keep it kind of off the Record until he had more those people certainly had a
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motive to get rid of Ray greekar I think it was similar to like Spotlight too I mean with the idea of well we don't want
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to go after you know the Catholic church because of how big they are right and I would and
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we could argue that college football at Penn State is possibly bigger yeah than Church oh for sure for some people it is
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church you know um absolutely and I think they're they're they might be wrapped up in
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there somewhere yeah there's another possibility here one of the reasons um green card didn't prosecute Sandusky was
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some sort of culpability um you know there there were some weird internet searches
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um on Greek Carr's computer before he disappeared and the one of the police officers who was investigating the case
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suggested to me that um some of the searches had to do with um you know being on the down low you
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know was there some sort of you know sexual promiscuity you know something weird going on there I tend to not not
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really buy into that because it by all appearances it seems that you know Rey was really really into women you know so
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meaning that the searches he was looking up were you know possibly that he'd let
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um a gay lifestyle outside of the public eye some of the police wondered if he wasn't cruising these parks for men
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okay um because he was seen at these Parks you know right before he disappeared and
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they were some of the places he was seen were known you know cruising spots at the time right and but maybe possibly
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the you know if I if I act like a ladies man sure then that you know and I'm I'm
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kind of flamboyant about that well that I think flamboyant might not have been the right choice awards but if
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I'm you know outwardly man I love women then that's a pretty easy cover-up for my alternative lifestyle I I don't
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know how much I I buy into that um or how much you know evidence there really is to that and and that still
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doesn't explain where the body is you know if if it does turn out to be murder uh I believe that would also possibly
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be a reason for suicide somebody that has lived such a long life and they feel for whatever reason then they can't you
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know live their live a life where they can be true to themselves right and he like without a doubt in my mind Greek
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Carr is the one that wrecked his computer and hard drive so what was on the computer and hard drive that
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needed to be destroyed right somebody in greekar's home that he was sharing of Patty fornicola some and this is
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probably Rey himself uh was searching was Googling you know how to destroy a hard drive uh how water
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destroys hard drives so he had this plan when he went there to destroy this hard
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drive what was on there was it something to be murdered for was it something he was
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going to be shamed for and he committed suicide was it plans to run away was it his you know bank accounts and uh the
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the things he had set in motion to walk away and as more time goes by I find myself just like in Maura
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Murray's case I'm leaning to this idea that he that he planned to start a new life and
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well but possibly again because if you're leading this other lifestyle that maybe you can't come out
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as yourself sure but the idea that well I can start a new life start a new name and I don't have to worry about being
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shamed at all right because I'm just this new person any person but again it's one of those piece of evidence that
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like can lean either way right but have we had anybody that has come out in the last
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about 10 years or so that has said that they've had a romantic relationship with
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them as as like a man saying that not that I not that I know not that I know and that's and that's why I think that
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that that might be not actually what was going on right I mean he certainly had characteristics
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that would seem a little you know effeminate or or prissy you know he's a very clean meticulous type of person but
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I think that was just his you know kind of slightly on the autism spectrum you know ocd-ness that was Ray I want to
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talk a little bit more about the like the theories that back up the walk away like why he like he's about to turn 60.
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he's going to retire why then why is he retiring then well it seems to me like they're not
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retiring but why would he walk away at that point right because that seems like the least right likely time to walk away
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he's going to get a retirement he's going to get a pension for this job that he's done forever
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um it's he had plans to travel um these don't point to anything any reasons to walk away unless he was a spy
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for Slovenia [Laughter] which out of context sounds ridiculously silly but let me break it
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down okay and this now pulls into question whether or not his brother's suicide was in fact a suicide right um
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after keep in mind that Greek art disappears he's making good money but nobody can find any accounting of that
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money right he's got no assets in his name um a couple years ago uh Deadspin uh one of their reporters puts in a
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public records request for the FBI file and CIA file of great Greek car and it comes back redacted for national
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security reasons and the CIA is involved in says you can't we can't release certain bits of information related to
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regret's disappearance now what is in the world is the CIA doing involved in rate greeker's disappearance and this
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disappearance of this uh this um D.A well right there is a really good sighting of Rey
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after his disappearance in Southfield Michigan this is so cool because the person who
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who spotted greekar was a retired police detective who did when he was working for the police did composite sketches
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okay so this is the guy you go to this is the eyewitness you want this is the best eyewitness ever and he says he
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definitely saw Ray Greek or after he disappeared in Southfield Michigan now what's important about Southfield
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Michigan it's nothing I don't give a [ __ ] about Michigan Right nothing's up there except for the
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Macedonian consulate and if you're on if you're laying low and you want to leave the country and get a visa
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to Slovenia you would go through the Macedonian that would be the closest place that Ray Greek art could get to go
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through there and he has citizenship his um I think grandfather or something his
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ancestors came from Slovenia um so he could apply for a Visa and get taken over there and everything would be
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kosher that's how he could escape the United States under under radar the FBI file also shows that Greek art took two
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trips to Yugoslavia which is now part of Slovenia he took two trips to Yugoslavia
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during the Cold War in 1973 and 1984. for the FBI these are red flags why is this young man in 1973
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traveling to Yugoslavia into the Soviet Union well but it is it is his motherland it's his yes right but does
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he I I don't know that he would have any living relatives there maybe they would
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be distant but that doesn't really matter right but let's consider he was turned
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at that point he and his brother turned to uh to protect the motherland to gather information
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um to be a sleeper agent essentially what better job would there be Than You Know A District
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Attorney uh in Pennsylvania which is near shoot Center county is is very close to another uh there's this
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very famous case of this directly north there's another County in Pennsylvania north of Center County very
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famous case where this government official was turned out to be very corrupt and was
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laundering money through the government system and disappeared he ends up in Slovenia with all these foreign
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connections so I'm not saying this is exactly what happened but if Greek Carr and his brother were
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involved in Espionage it would explain the FBI's presence the cia's presence it would explain possibly the brother's
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suicide that wasn't actually a suicide maybe it was murder and it would explain why Greek art decides to disappear then
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because he's finished his mission he's finished his uh his his duty which is to work in government in America and to do
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what he can for the the Homeland now he gets to go home right you know but in order to go home he has to burn his old
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id you know he's got the Burn Notice um yeah but also too I mean it could be you have this
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um talented smart prosecutor and it could be not working for his motherland it could be working for the United States
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as well right you could take it the other way right yeah and that's why I would visit in 73 and then 84 and then
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well we're going to have to have you go missing here so then exactly when you go
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back home you're a new person was he one of our spies yeah and you think you know
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and that sounds crazy too but people have to understand like the the FBI and the CIA they recruit people
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well they they gotta re depending on what the mission is they're going to recruit somebody in their 20s or 30s 40s
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50s and so on and you know he's already working in the system you know and somebody like that
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might go well this is a prestigious move up you know right um right they could set up the secret
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accounts for him the Swiss bank accounts that he must have had you know to funnel
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his money we'll take care of all the stuff and then when it when it comes out that you're
00:24:36
um you're you're missing I mean we're going to be investigating this but you know you've worked the mara murder case
00:24:41
for so long to get the FBI or the CIA involved in the missing person cases really hard to do oh yeah and you got
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both of them in this case which is fascinating foreign [Music] [Music] we're back cheers mates Nick is in
00:25:11
Florida he's having a good time keeps on sending me pictures of beers and uh I think he's drunk in every picture he
00:25:19
sent me but I'll I'll post those on Instagram also quick reminder we have hoodies for sale people have been asking
00:25:27
for them for a long time so I worked my butt off and now we got some hoodies for
00:25:31
sale and it's a pre-order and it's gonna only last for a short period of time so
00:25:37
if you want one get one now at truecrimegarage.com and click on the store page so let's get back to the
00:25:43
conversation that we had with James Renner about the vanishing Man Ray green car
00:25:49
foreign travel as I was in investigating his disappearance back in 2006. somebody
00:26:00
directed me I was directed to this book this obscure sci-fi book called 2020 Vision written by Pamela West
00:26:09
in the 80s and I it was hard to track down a copy I think it's out of print but I was able
00:26:14
to get one through Amazon and I picked it up and at first glance you're like what does this have to do
00:26:20
with Ray greeker and you read the book and it's about this detective who had this one case he could never solve near
00:26:28
Penn State and he ends up growing old and in some ways this this has shades of Primrose
00:26:35
Lane in it and uh grows old and then uses uh time travel in order to go back and save this woman
00:26:44
from being killed like Quantum Leap kind of like Quantum Leap yeah right and the
00:26:50
interesting thing about it is the date that this guy disappears in the book is April 15th
00:26:57
and there are Clues like a little bit of cigarette Ash found inside his vehicle and he didn't smoke and his car was
00:27:04
found by a river and every you realize that everything from this sci-fi book about time travel this guy that
00:27:11
disappears inside the book matches up with everything about Rey's disappearance even the date and you
00:27:17
would think this is total coincidence Until you realize and find out that Ray greekar was the consultant on the book
00:27:25
2020 Vision right and Pamela West was a journalist professor at Penn State and she's writing under a pen name and
00:27:35
for a while I wondered if Ray greekar wasn't in fact but he's not she really does exist
00:27:42
and what she wanted to do was she wanted to write a true crime book called about the Betsy ardsma case right
00:27:51
which is a famous unsolved case out of Penn State have you guys done that one yet no but was that the girl that was
00:27:56
killed in the library yes her body stabbed yeah her body was found in the stacks and this was like back in 69 that
00:28:06
her body was found in the stacks in the library at Penn State and when they found her body they couldn't figure out
00:28:11
how she died she was just dead on the floor and what they found later was she was stabbed once directly through the
00:28:17
chest into her heart um and it was a clean cut in out and she bled inside so there's no blood outside
00:28:27
of her body and she dropped dead like that to this day that case remains unsolved now Pamela West
00:28:35
thought she knew who did it and she wanted to write a book explaining who did it and all of her evidence for it
00:28:40
and she went to Greek our asking help you know how do I do this without getting sued he said well
00:28:46
let me put all the details in there and just make it fictitious you know add some sci-fi to it and that way you get
00:28:52
you get you know what you've done all this research can go to something but you know you're you're not going to be
00:28:59
able to name the person you think did it so was this if if Greek are is going to
00:29:04
walk away you know was he doing it in some sort of funny you know was he having a little
00:29:11
fun with it oh he's leaving a clue right like I helped with this book one of the big things was that this guy
00:29:18
has to go missing her back in time right and and what happened in the book okay well I need to go missing I'm just going
00:29:27
to do that yeah and somebody's gonna get the reference it might take him a while
00:29:33
right right so I hope that that's what happened and he was having a little fun with his
00:29:39
disappearance it seems too much of a coincidence to me yeah the exact date the fact that Greek her was the
00:29:45
consultant on the cigarette the cigarette Ash everything matches those are that that's tiny details if it was
00:29:51
just guy went back in time and here's the date and then he went missing I'd go well there's that's one right and but
00:29:58
once you get those little small right details isn't that weird yeah the the other thought that people have had along
00:30:04
those lines is you know was he close to did he want to go after Betsy Arts Max killer before he retired and did he try
00:30:13
to meet with Betsy ardsmith's killer there and there was a scuffle and he was murdered and but then again
00:30:19
and you still don't have a body so um boy and it doesn't explain the the hard drive and the computer and the
00:30:28
lake because exactly well maybe you could clear up a few um things since you did speak with the
00:30:36
investigator yeah sure um there was there was rumor from his co-workers and his girlfriend that he was may have been
00:30:47
suffering from depression that he was acting strange that an out of character that week leading up to his
00:30:55
disappearance uh one thing that keeps coming up as a question mark amongst a lot of people is
00:31:03
his his day his morning before he disappeared was he did he leave work early did he
00:31:11
not go into work at all that day I've seen it reported both ways from what I've heard he you know so he disappears
00:31:19
on it's a Friday Friday April 15th and from what I understand he was at work the day before
00:31:26
um but then he called off he was playing hooky you know he was supposed to be in
00:31:30
a work but and nobody thought that that was too weird because he was you know getting ready for retirement and he
00:31:36
would often take these days where he'd just drive into the country and go antiquing you know
00:31:43
um where he was possibly meeting up with this other woman who knows but anyways it wasn't that out of character
00:31:51
what was odd is so he calls off on that that Friday one of his co-workers also prosecutor swears 100 swears he saw
00:32:01
Greek Carr there that day in somebody in the passengers seat of somebody else's car and he had
00:32:10
come in it looked like he'd come in and maybe forgot something and was you know but he was pulling out of the
00:32:16
prosecutor's office in the passenger seat of somebody else's car and he made note of it because he's like
00:32:21
what you know he's not supposed to be in today he's here he's in who's driving the car so what's he doing back at at
00:32:29
the office that day but there's no record of him actually going into the office not that we've not
00:32:35
that we've found no huh he was oh I forgot to mention this Greek Carr was also obsessed with an
00:32:41
Ohio case uh unsolved case um that he mentioned to a number of co-workers in the weeks leading up to
00:32:48
and the months leading up to his disappearance and that's the unsolved disappearance of Mel Wiley Mel was the
00:32:55
chief of police in I want to say bath but I'm not entirely sure it was near bath Ohio and this was in the 70s or 80s
00:33:05
I believe but he disappeared one day and they found his shoes and clothes and uh
00:33:11
his wallet tucked into his shoes on Edgewater Beach up in Cleveland and they're like wow he must have drowned
00:33:18
out there but they never found a body and then they went back and went to his typewriter and were able to extract like
00:33:24
all the letters that he had written and very obviously this guy had planned for his disappearance and was you know
00:33:31
going off to California but he did it in a way he was never found again and he was working in government and he had
00:33:38
this top position and this guy just up and disappeared started a new life and Greek Carr knew about it and was kind of
00:33:47
weirdly obsessed about it and had mentioned that case to a couple people so it was on his mind yeah or again
00:33:53
maybe leaving little bread crumbs right right like I can't tell you where I'm going
00:33:59
but when I disappear I'm gonna be okay yeah I think might have been what he was telling people it was very strange with
00:34:06
the lack of money in the bank that to me says volumes it says that there's an account out there we don't
00:34:13
know about he didn't seem to be living a frivolous lifestyle yeah he wasn't like
00:34:19
no extravagant living he didn't have his own house he was living with his his girlfriend
00:34:25
um if he was broke he could have attempted to get reelected and keep his position exactly yeah for another four
00:34:31
years right right he wasn't broke we just don't know where his money is yeah he's probably at least making six
00:34:38
figures you would think so Penn State yeah yeah so he calls off there is an eyewitness that says that they believe
00:34:45
they saw him at work in the parking lot that clears up the discrepancy of did he
00:34:51
actually go into work and just do a half day and leave as far as his vehicle goes
00:34:56
we should probably set this up a little bit because he had a Mini Cooper red Mini Cooper yeah and this wasn't just
00:35:04
like oh go out and buy a um fuel efficient car to get you to and from work he was a driver yeah he liked
00:35:11
to take long drives he seemed to be particular about his vehicle yeah um the vehicle that was in his
00:35:18
girlfriend's name yeah it was his which is weird and so that makes the that makes the cigarette ashes even more
00:35:25
strange because it he doesn't we don't see any signs that he would have allowed somebody to smoke in his
00:35:31
car right just kind of willy-nilly it seemed like something that he that he wouldn't
00:35:36
let happen absolutely unless it's his last last time in that car you know I I picture what I picture is his sexy CIA
00:35:44
Handler you know coming in and you know they they sit in the car for a minute and
00:35:50
then he and she's like you know got the cigarette in her mouth and she's like well Ray it's been a trip
00:35:56
take one last look at Happy Valley before we get to before I take you back to Slovenia right
00:36:04
um and then they get into a waiting black sedan and you know drive off into the sunset
00:36:10
so his his uh laptop that's later found it's a county issued right laptop and that's why I brought up the whole thing
00:36:19
of whether he was at work that day or not because a lot of people have questioned well if he called off and
00:36:25
didn't go into work How likely would it be that he would have had that computer with him at the
00:36:31
time of his disappearance right I think I from what I understand it was a it was
00:36:36
issued through work but it was a laptop that he could take home and do his work there
00:36:41
so I you know I don't I don't put too much into that um I wouldn't look too hard into that
00:36:48
for Clues his cell phones found in his vehicle uh his keys wallet never found oh that's right yeah right and is the
00:36:58
vehicle locked I can't remember but I think it's locked the vehicle's locked no keys and the cell phones in the car
00:37:04
but turned off that sounds right yeah and this is a county issued cell phone as well I think
00:37:10
you know again like I don't want to get tracked so I'm leaving this cell phone here I've got my
00:37:16
burner on Me Maybe um or if he was murdered you know nobody else wants that bit of evidence being
00:37:24
able to tie them to it later so again you've got these clues that can lead you both ways I tend to lead more
00:37:30
towards you know these these all seem like clues that he himself was responsible for I'd
00:37:37
love to see what was on that laptop they've never been able even though they recovered the hard drive they've never
00:37:42
been able to extract any data out of it because it was in the river so long yeah
00:37:48
and if anybody's going to be able to it would have been the CIA or right FBI they had a a group that works with NASA
00:37:56
examine the the hard drive and they weren't able to pull anything out of it yeah it was it's interesting to me
00:38:02
because like like you said the connection with the book The Connection to this Ohio case it seems like
00:38:09
he had some interest in starting over it does you know and if none of that were to happen you know it would look more it
00:38:18
really would look more like a a murder you know abduction well the tough thing about you know when they're like well we
00:38:25
think the body went in the river I mean yeah suicide or murder you would expect that at some point you'd find the body
00:38:31
right there is always that possibility that you sure that we're getting stuff random case that they just don't treat
00:38:38
right you know and getting to the abduction you know Murder thing that's very unlikely with a 60 year old man too
00:38:45
unless it's like I mean if he was if we're talking abduction from the scene and murder
00:38:52
it would suggest organized crime to some extent possibly and well then if it's then you gotta look into his brother's
00:38:59
death as well exactly right yeah you know because maybe that was not a suicide and then it's how now how are
00:39:06
these murders connected right well maybe not though his brother's not a district
00:39:10
attorney a district attorney can create a lot of enemies that's true yeah yeah especially over a 20-year
00:39:17
time frame yeah definitely but what was his brother involved in because yeah I mean because sometimes you it's like
00:39:26
maybe his brother was I I don't know much about his brother at all but I'm just saying if you wanted to start
00:39:32
speculating and going down that rabbit hole it's like was this you know yeah I'm this uh prosecutor and I'm doing
00:39:39
well for myself but this guy's struggling so maybe I know some people that can help him out or maybe he's just
00:39:45
a bad seed right the the brother too could just be a legitimate suicide right although you know suicides very rarely
00:39:54
just walk into a river yeah that's very determined you know there are better ways to kill yourself
00:40:00
especially for men men are usually gun you know to the mouth uh more violent you know they don't
00:40:07
usually walk into a river to drown themselves well his his brother you know in the
00:40:13
river kills himself vehicle found near a bridge yep Rey disappears his items are found in or on the banks
00:40:21
of the river yep and his Vehicles found near a bridge yep if he disappeared he wanted a you
00:40:28
know that clearly that would have been on his mind you know is he does he want us to think
00:40:34
about that is is he trying to suggest that it was suicide really walk away uh you know the more I think about this
00:40:42
case as weird as it sounds I lean towards the Spy theory that he was either one of us or you know spying
00:40:49
for them and I'd love to go I'd love to go to Slovenia and just try to look around for a while
00:40:56
well he would be how old now oh shoot he'd be 70 but the thing here is here's what I
00:41:09
question about him walking away or being a spy and choosing that okay now it's time for me to go
00:41:16
isn't it an extreme poor taste to leave your vehicle in the same situation that your brothers vehicle was found in when
00:41:27
you have a daughter I don't care adopted or not you have a nephew uh that was the
00:41:33
son of his brother uh you do have some family that lived through an experience where a relative went missing vehicle
00:41:42
found near a bridge he's missing for about a week until they figure out that he's in the river and then they
00:41:48
ultimately rule at a suicide so now I'm planning my disappearance I'm planning to walk away
00:41:54
I'm gonna in the poorest of taste leave my vehicle next to a bridge in in my items in the
00:42:02
river that's a really good that's a really good point I hadn't thought about before that would be kind of a a mean
00:42:08
thing to do for your for your who who you you know assume would be his loved ones
00:42:15
um but let me ask you this like let's say he was a spy and it was time to go back home to the motherland how would
00:42:22
you do it without telling everybody you're a spy how would you disappear me I would
00:42:28
personally I think that walking away is is rude and bad enough on its own wow but I kind of wish you would want but
00:42:36
but what I'm saying is you can attempt to do it without a trace but but you you could leave the vehicle you know you
00:42:42
could drive the vehicle off into the woods somewhere yeah but you could leave the vehicle at your house and it
00:42:46
actually then becomes even more of a mystery because it's like so he disappeared from his house and put his
00:42:51
car's here and maybe he was doing them a favor by by not leaving it at the house
00:42:56
so the investigators wouldn't look at the people that lived there to make them suspects okay so he drives it out there
00:43:04
and he's got his brother in mind yeah I just don't know that if if that's your if that's who you are if that's your
00:43:11
identity and you you have to do this one way or another is there is there a decent way to do it
00:43:16
that's true and now you know I didn't even think about that until we started talking but
00:43:21
yeah of course if he's doing that he's gonna make sure that he doesn't disappear from home because he doesn't
00:43:26
want his loved ones to be us don't implicate Patty in anything that she was unaware of yeah so yeah it's that weird
00:43:33
piece of evidence where it goes back and forth because in one in one sense it's like well this is really bad taste right
00:43:39
but in the other sense it basically leads you to believe that yeah you know because of his brother and
00:43:46
because of everything going on in retirement that he was so depressed that he took his own life you know and also
00:43:52
he he does it during the day when he knows his girlfriend's at work and has witnesses that put her at work so he's
00:44:00
furthering right like but doing damage control for her well yeah damage control there but also almost damage control for
00:44:09
the family where it's like yeah they've been through that before and that was traumatic yeah but it's almost
00:44:15
understandable right right you know the second time it's like well he was depressed and his brother and maybe this
00:44:22
was his way of being with his brother right you know I think we've solved it here I think he's
00:44:28
I don't like the other woman Theory no not at all and I'll tell you why we're not talking about a guy that had
00:44:37
been married for 30 years right had 14 children with the same woman right he's been divorced twice
00:44:45
uh he's coming up on a retirement where he's going to receive a decent retirement that he's earned he's worked
00:44:52
a lot of years to earn it right I just don't in the relationship with Patty obviously I don't know the ins and outs
00:44:59
of it but they weren't married right they shared a place together I I don't I can't get into the other
00:45:05
woman Theory because I think there's it would be very easy for him to just end the relationship with Patty
00:45:13
and and start this new relationship or bring this going on relationship to light exactly and continue his life
00:45:20
and retire and you know set up a life with the new woman rather than this whole walking away unless unless that woman
00:45:29
was his Handler you know um or how about this um this this is another weird detail
00:45:35
about this case so this other woman that he was seen with people recognized her as like to a person like the the one of
00:45:44
the people that saw him with her said yeah and it wasn't just some beautiful woman it was this specific beautiful
00:45:50
woman who's a journalist slash TV I think she was involved in TV um like news up there too okay so the
00:45:57
police are like wow okay we gotta find her and they went to find her she had also called off work that day
00:46:04
and she she they tracked her she was like and I think if I'm getting this right Upstate New York but she had like
00:46:11
traveled out of the city right and so they track her down and I think she was at like a wedding of uh of a family
00:46:19
member or something she had a pretty good excuse but how weird is that that like the person that this per that the
00:46:25
witnesses sure was with Ray also called off that day it's just a bad coincidence for her
00:46:33
or is there more to that you know how thorough do you think that they tried to track him the authorities because I mean
00:46:42
there's no crime committed here but we're also talking about an active district attorney goes missing right
00:46:49
they're going to try to track this guy it's not like well that's another weird part of this too because the FBI didn't
00:46:57
take over the case right away um it should have been a state case it should have been state troopers it
00:47:04
should have been the Attorney General office involved but everybody kind of stepped back and they're like okay let
00:47:12
let the State College Police take this over and we're talking about a department that had like three police
00:47:18
officers they weren't prepared to look for a missing district attorney but all the bigger agencies are like no let them
00:47:26
handle it is that because the the bigger agencies had access to the information that Greek art was a spy and that we
00:47:34
knew he was disappearing and you know let him go that's weird like they it's should have been a bigger case but it
00:47:40
was left to the smallest Department that could have been involved well yeah it's
00:47:44
left to it at first but then everybody else then comes in but maybe they all come in to go see what we tried maybe
00:47:51
yeah it looks like that at some point but um the FBI weren't really ever involved
00:47:57
with the hunt for it as far as we can tell the state becomes involved in it eventually and they seem to step in and
00:48:04
do their own investigation but at every turn the AG seems to like kind of scuttle it you know or just weirdly
00:48:14
silent about it or uh yeah it's just there's a lot of weirdness surrounding why the the people put in charge where this
00:48:23
this very small Police Department so what do you think you got a hunch I have no hunch I just I personally I just see
00:48:32
a lot of reasons to not walk away that's what I keep coming back to I was unaware
00:48:37
about the bank account thing right because in in this is kind of a vague broad statement but when you look into
00:48:45
this case you know they say well they checked his bank accounts they checked his credit cards they checked his phone
00:48:52
records and there was found no clues right and that's kind of all they leave you with so you assume when I read that
00:49:00
statement I assume well all is well you know uh they found no clues well no bank
00:49:06
account that's a that's a clue it's a clue yeah I think what what you got to go back to exactly how they worded at
00:49:14
newspaper accounts too because they're very careful with the semantics of that but they're like
00:49:19
um you know we yeah we looked into his accounts but we found no uh you know something like no evidence there to
00:49:25
suggest or whatever but um the fact yeah exactly right the fact that there is no money in there right
00:49:32
should tell you something that's a big thing yeah but what does that point to because as because that can point to
00:49:40
Suicide pretty easily here's this guy that exactly didn't save anything you know worked a bunch of years but nothing
00:49:48
to show for it his car's not even in his own name and so he just I'm walking away
00:49:54
this is a guy who's very meticulous in every other part of his life I would think he would be very meticulous about
00:50:00
his financial situation there yeah so is it just the the fact that there's no money
00:50:06
I mean there has to be some transactions on those accounts he I think there were some I don't know how
00:50:13
much but we're talking about I mean I think it's like 100 a couple hundreds of dollars in like uh you know an account
00:50:21
that was left when he disappeared and no assets by the way everything else was in
00:50:25
everybody else's name like like his girlfriends or his wife's name he never had assets so we have a successful D.A
00:50:33
who disappears and then when you look into his financial background if you didn't know his job
00:50:40
or the the length of his career you would assume you're looking at some 27 year old dude that's living paycheck
00:50:48
to paycheck right no not even that because the the transaction history wasn't that in-depth though right right
00:50:54
so it's almost like you're looking at a 15 year old kid that has a savings account with its father's name on it and
00:51:01
he only puts money in it when he has a birthday or right or Christmas huh yeah I mean like right coming out that's what
00:51:08
I used to do I was a banker so now a lot of people on that level would have their
00:51:13
own personal banker would have a portfolio sure especially you know prosecutors you know cops right
00:51:21
like stocks and bonds yeah and building up for retirement that can go away pretty quickly
00:51:27
and that could be a motive right because that would be the other motive too is like well what if he did have all this
00:51:33
money and he was divorced twice well I I would want to know how he was cashing his checks that would be a big
00:51:43
question for me how is he cashing his checks because let's just say there would be a motive you know a lot of
00:51:49
people would go well you need to put your money in the bank as a banker for a long time and we had a bunch of really
00:51:56
rich um you know retired you know the guys in their 70s and 80s that um they had
00:52:03
really small accounts low activity but they came into the bank every week and I I know they were just stockpiling
00:52:10
their money at their house you know really in a safe or whatever because they didn't trust because of the the
00:52:16
depression and sure stuff like that they didn't trust the banks now I'm not saying he didn't trust the
00:52:21
banks because of the depression but why would you trust the banks or have any assets when your last possibly with
00:52:28
your last two divorces and that would be public record of what they got in the divorce sure so if he got you know taken
00:52:36
to the cleaners twice then it's like well I'm going to take all my money and put it on a
00:52:42
and the mattress and I say for something but that would also become another reason for motive if one of his friends
00:52:49
or somebody found out hey you know this guy doesn't put any money in the bank right right and he doesn't have all
00:52:56
these assets and he had took all his money he just hides in the way Greek Harris got like a hundred thousand in
00:53:01
cash sitting in his house yeah yeah that'd be a motive it doesn't explain the computer though no well but the
00:53:09
computer's not as weird as the search is yeah the Google searches of how to you know destroy the hard drive
00:53:17
the police wondered if he had a journal on the computer that he was a personal Journal that he was keeping yeah
00:53:23
or you know he's district attorney is that where he kept all the dirt he had on everybody else and and
00:53:30
somebody's getting real scared because he's up for retirement is he gonna transfer that dirt file over to the next
00:53:36
prosecutor right um and again we're going around in in oh what was that movie um Chad gerhover yeah where he every
00:53:47
time there was a new person in his like whole mission was to get the dirt file oh sure and then give it to him and he'd
00:53:54
be like don't worry I got my own copy yeah I mean so it's like right right maybe he had some of those dirt files
00:54:01
and somebody the weird thing too about the search is would they be able to know when those
00:54:07
searches happened like was it you know that day I don't know because if it's that day it
00:54:15
could really be in the murderer's hands yeah they don't go ahead I'm sorry right I think oh the
00:54:22
the the you know the search is from home where he's like how to destroy a hard drive right I think that was from the
00:54:28
night before I think I think I've read that that that happened okay so those searches were actually going from his
00:54:34
home computer and not the person that computer that he shared with his girlfriend right it's neat to travel
00:54:39
down there too then they called Happy Valley it's beautiful I mean yeah just a just a beautiful drive and uh I always
00:54:48
picture him you know jetting through the valley and you know looking for these antique stores and
00:54:53
you know maybe going it would be an excellent place to do the you know the Spy drops you know at a park you know
00:55:01
put it underneath the park bench and take off and your handler comes and I I I hope he's in Slovenia just you
00:55:10
know eating some fish and whatever they do in Slovenian and he's listening to this show right
00:55:16
now going they're still talking about me if you could time travel you you brought it up
00:55:22
so here we go if you could time travel back to a decade do you have does one pop
00:55:29
immediately into mine oh for sure I definitely without a doubt go back to the 60s you know if pre pre-hiv free
00:55:39
love free drugs uh that sounds like a very fun time how about you um oddly enough oddly enough I would pick
00:55:53
the 60s as well all right for different reasons oh yeah uh yep I mean that was the decade of the assassinations you
00:56:01
know oh sure yeah there's a lot of questions he wants to go back to shoot some people
00:56:06
it's uh similar to um your book The Man on Primrose Lane where he goes back and he's he's aware
00:56:14
of this victim and he believes if he can follow her around long enough that he can intercept the killer or her abductor
00:56:22
and stop the crime from happening it's like like the captain said here uh Quantum Leap yeah yeah I'd love to sit
00:56:29
there like as JFK's coming down the the with the motorcade see if you know anybody really was in that grassy knoll
00:56:37
or peeking over the the fence there's definitely somebody in the grass you know all you have to do is read the it's in
00:56:45
the Warren report a lot of people don't know that in the Warren report they claim that there was possible shots from
00:56:51
the grassy knoll so the government hasn't like fully dismissed this idea I really think what happened that day is
00:56:57
the is somebody contracted three different people and they didn't tell the other ones yeah you know so you had
00:57:04
this and whoever was going to get busted was going to get busted you know yeah uh question for you so now that we're on
00:57:11
the time traveling so we we said what decade right so but what case would you solve oh 100 Amy
00:57:20
malevic you know I'd be I'd be right at the plaza you know at at the end of the day as
00:57:25
she's coming in just to see who comes up to her and uh well then you could stop it
00:57:31
though yeah yeah yeah absolutely yeah but but if you do that I mean now we're in the realm of fiction so you've got
00:57:38
James Renner showing up in 1989 and this guy comes up to Amy Mahal of economy 100
00:57:43
sure I've got the killer right so I Pummel him to death or whatever and uh so then now I'm in prison
00:57:51
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