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Freedom calls we're here to answer call us at 1 888 Freedom John B Ramsey she was strangled
00:01:13
with a cord Little Miss Colorado 6-year-old murder victim John Ben Ramsey unknown
00:01:22
Intruder her [Music] [Applause] brother victory John B Ramsey oh my God they still have not interviewed the
00:01:38
parents I Didn't Do It John Ram didn't do it and we didn't have a clue of anybody who
00:01:47
did my life has been H from that day forward and I went nothing SE more than to find out who was responsible for
00:01:58
this [Music] after John Ramsey and Fleet white found John benet's body in The Wine Cellar
00:02:14
located in the basement John in a hurry ran up the stairs taking the body with him placing the body on the floor of the
00:02:23
kitchen detective Linda art then moves the body to the living room then art orders Fleet white to stand by the door
00:02:32
to the basement and guard the door Fleet white goes to the door but for some reason runs downstairs to retrieve the
00:02:39
duct tape from the basement floor this is all taking place between 1:04 p.m. and 1:23 p.m. at approximately 1:30 p.m.
00:02:50
Priscilla white calls her home I'm guessing here Captain but this is very likely to Halt Burke leaving the White's
00:02:57
house and returning to the Ramsay around the same time officers Ron Walker and Larry Mason returned to the scene
00:03:06
saw John B's body and then searched the home afterward securing the house shortly after the body was found John
00:03:15
Andrew Ramsey Melinda Ramsey and Stuart long arrive at the Ramsey house in Boulder Colorado between 1:30 and 2:
00:03:22
p.m. a detective overhears John on the phone John called a pilot his Pilot to telling him to ready the plane this to
00:03:32
me is very strange behavior from somebody who has just recovered the body of their six-year-old daughter right
00:03:41
around 2: p.m. John Ramsay signs a consent form to search the Ramsay home and just touching on that that plane
00:03:50
call to the pilot for a little bit here the the detectives had to stop John Ramsey from leaving the the Ramsey
00:03:59
family from leaving telling the ramsy hey you shouldn't go anywhere we have a murder investigation the crime scene
00:04:06
your home and you know they're not going to tell them this up front and center here but obviously they're suspects
00:04:14
right and I I think the way the Rams were actually thinking was Atlanta Georgia was what they considered home so
00:04:22
we have this bad thing that happen we want to get back home we don't want to be here we don't want to be in this
00:04:29
house um but that does like you said hinder the investigation I don't think that
00:04:34
hinders the investigation of the house or the crime scene but it hinders the investigation and being able to talk
00:04:41
with them um adequately yeah and then regarding this consent to search form for the the search warrant if you will
00:04:50
or because this makes it seem like John's being very Cooperative yeah I and I technically don't believe this to be
00:04:56
an actual search warrant you know one that you bring before judge judge signs off on it I believe this is just a
00:05:02
consent to search form signed by John Ramsey the the owner of the home this is just one of those other
00:05:10
little details within this case that I absolutely cannot stand is that regardless you know
00:05:18
depending on Whose magnifying glass you look at these details from you get a different story M on what's going on
00:05:27
here where the ram Defenders would tell you look this is proof positive that they were extremely Cooperative don't
00:05:36
bother Nick with worrying about that they wanted to hop on a plane and fly far away because this shows how
00:05:44
Cooperative they are they were signing a consent to search their home form they have nothing to hide they're an open
00:05:50
book but then the ones that want to come after the Rams point out they're not really an open book because John later
00:05:59
says that he thought he was signing off on on on saying that yes you can perform an
00:06:06
autopsy on the body right so it's it's just frustrating that's one of the most frustrating pieces of this case well I
00:06:16
think the one of the frustrating things is when people say only one thing's the truth right can we agree on that it it
00:06:22
can't be both yeah I well I don't know I think what they say there's three sides
00:06:28
to the truth there's Yours Mine and the actual truth not always um but I think sometimes there's just the truth but I
00:06:36
think with the whole wanting to go back home he didn't go back home like they wanted to the cops said yeah don't do
00:06:45
that that's a bad idea but it's so stupid with this case it's like a non-point like yeah he's like let's go
00:06:53
back home hey don't do that okay we're not going back home but they didn't they didn't stay in the house house they
00:06:59
nobody wanted to be in that house oh and I I cannot blame them I and I don't even
00:07:04
know if John ever went back in that house after that day cuz they ended up staying with their friends but but let's
00:07:12
also be clear that around this time they pulled Jon into a room by himself and they talked to him for a while and at
00:07:22
some point they talked to Burke by himself for a while so they do talk to Burke this would be the um he never
00:07:31
comes back to the Ramsay's house right so they talk to Burke one onone my understanding is it was straight up
00:07:39
oneon-one it was Burke was still at the friend's house right and he's over there
00:07:45
you know playing with the other kids and they're distracting him that I that's a
00:07:49
troubling aspect to this case too because you can look at just that whole situation in two different ways one are
00:07:57
you protecting your child Burke by removing him from the situation that could scar him for Life something
00:08:04
extremely traumatizing or are you purposely putting him away so that he doesn't disclose some information right but you
00:08:15
you eventually let him talk to the cops oneon-one John's even even in the room with him
00:08:21
right so if you're so worried about what he's going to say or if if you knew that
00:08:25
he just smashed his six-year-old sister's head with a flashlight you're going to let him sit
00:08:31
in a room with a detective by himself or with friends and others that he could share that information with willly Dilly
00:08:39
I mean he's 9 years old right you're not there when when they ship him off and also that's not just the ramy's thought
00:08:46
process of all let get Burke out of here this was a this was the cops and the ramsy going he needs to be removed from
00:08:54
this site the cops suggested that he should be removed from the the Ramsey home no I think it was it was like a a
00:09:01
collective effort it was a collective idea I don't think it was just as simple as the Ramsay saying hey he needs to get
00:09:08
out of here one thing I will point out here that I think is very troubling on behalf of the Boulder Police and on the
00:09:16
Ramsay is if you're working under the scenario that a child has been kidnapped from your home and a ransom has been
00:09:26
called for in a letter right wouldn't you want to protect your your remaining child wouldn't you feel
00:09:36
that that there should be some kind of security for this other child rather than sending him off to some friend's
00:09:46
house right seems it seems it it's another situation where we can point out that the Boulder Police clearly did not
00:09:55
know how to respond to a kidnapping situation that where Ransom is being called for yeah but at the end of the
00:10:01
day I think people that are pointing at the ramsy constantly you don't know what it would
00:10:06
be like to lose a six-year-old daughter or how you'd react or what you'd be thinking about I think it'd be hard to
00:10:13
think about anything and you go oh well they shipped him away so they're not protecting their son well they might not
00:10:21
even be able to to think properly so I think some of their actions right that and that's what I mean that's when the
00:10:28
boulder police should have stepped in and said no this is this this home right now is secured because we have law
00:10:35
enforcement presence here he's safe here right I I agree and they should have done a better job of trying to when they
00:10:43
got to the scene initially they should have cleared the whole house and and then they would have found her and then
00:10:49
the crime scene would have been contaminated and they also would had enough officers where you're not having
00:10:55
her father pick her up and contaminate evidence and and then have the mother cry over her and contaminate evidence
00:11:04
have the detective pick up the victim right and contaminate evidence I mean it's that's pretty well not only did
00:11:12
Linda aren't move the body after JN moved the body and this is important to the autopsy but so she allowed someone to
00:11:23
take a blanket as you know a sign of uh to protect their child or I don't know remorse or whatever whatever however
00:11:30
many different ways you want to look at it she allowed someone to take a blanket
00:11:34
and place it over the body once it was removed to the move to the living room yeah and then to further that John B's
00:11:44
feet were still sticking out from the blanket from the bottom of the blanket and L I believe Linda aren't told
00:11:53
someone to cover up the feet as well so they took a Colorado Avalanche you know the hockey team they either took a
00:12:02
hockey sweater or or a sweatshirt and placed it over the feet of the body so what that means to the lay person
00:12:13
basically any hairs fibers anything like that that could have been on that blanket could have been on that
00:12:18
sweatshirt or sweater now is on could be on her body Andor clothing yeah so it's just it's
00:12:27
just truly a mess now shortly after John signs this consent to search form the Ramsay leave their home they go
00:12:35
to stay with the feres remember we discussed the feres they showed up early that morning to the Ramsey home yeah
00:12:41
this the Ramsay's going to the feres includes John's older children John Andrew Ramsay and Melinda Ramsey and her
00:12:52
boyfriend as well now sometime that afternoon John Ramsey calls and requests a visit from Michael bham who is
00:12:59
reported to be John Ramsay's close friend and a corporate attorney it is during this
00:13:06
visit so Michael bham he agrees to this visit and it's during this visit that same afternoon that John hires Michael
00:13:15
bham to represent him and Mr bham advises the ramsy at that time that they need to get additional attorneys right
00:13:25
but you're I think you're missing one step he actually got a call their lawyer got a call he wasn't hired at the time
00:13:34
but that's why he suggested that John gets lawyer because he got a call from a contact that he had inside the police
00:13:43
department that said they're just trying to make this about you guys and that's it and and that's when he suggested you
00:13:51
need to get a lawyer on December 26th 1996 at the home of John and paty Ramsey this is from the report these are the
00:13:59
words of pathologist John E Meyer MD he says the body of this 6-year-old female was first seen by me after I was called
00:14:09
to an address identified as 7551 15th Street in Boulder Colorado I arrived at the scene approximately 8:00 p.m. and
00:14:16
entered the house where the decedent's body was located at approximately 8:20 p.m. I initially viewed the body in the
00:14:24
living room of the house the decedent was lying on her back on the floor covered by a blanket and a Colorado
00:14:32
Avalanche sweatshirt on removing these two items from the top of the body the deant was found to be lying on her back
00:14:39
with her arms extended up over her head the head was turned to the right a brief
00:14:44
examination of the body disclosed a ligature around the neck and a ligature around the right wrist also noted was a
00:14:52
small area of abrasion or contusion below the right ear on the lateral aspect of the right cheek cheek a
00:14:59
prominent dried abrasion was present on the lower left neck after examining the body I left the Residence at
00:15:06
approximately 8:30 p.m. at 10:45 p.m. on December 26th the body of 6-year-old John Ben Ramsey is removed from the
00:15:16
family's home before we move on to December 27th Captain I want to make sure that I point out here in regards to
00:15:24
contamination of the body that it has been noted by several people this is not one of these items that's in dispute or
00:15:32
Up For Debate this is across the board John Ramsey Patricia Ramsey Linda art and Fleet white all touched the body
00:15:42
before it was examined right and John Ramsey and Patricia Ramsey touched the body several times I'm not pointing that
00:15:50
out to indicate guilt or to indicate that the ramies were trying to cover something up I think it would be
00:15:59
100% natural reaction to want to go to your child to touch your child I'm just pointing it out for the the purpose of
00:16:10
evidentiary value yeah I mean it compromises the scene we're not saying that it's to cover up anything it
00:16:16
compromises the scene and um and then we also know where we're starting from so the following is from Steve Thomas's
00:16:25
book this is inside the ramsy murder investigation Steve Thomas was one of the leading detectives on the case this
00:16:33
is from page 41 and it says it was the morning of December 27th the little body was first
00:16:40
removed from a locked yellow outer covering then from an inner black bag the paper sacks were removed from the
00:16:48
hands and feet and Meyer remember he is the pathologist began describing his findings the victim weighed 45 lb was 3
00:16:57
11 in tall and had green eyes and some green Garland was caught in her blonde hair a single Loop of white cord was
00:17:06
around her right wrist tied on top of the sleeve but so loosely the doctor easily slid it free there were
00:17:15
15/2 in between that Loop and a loop on the other end which once apparently had bound the left wrist a white cord of the
00:17:26
same type was wrapped so tightly around the throat and neck that a deep horizontal Furrow had been dug into the
00:17:34
skin a gold chain and cross were Tangled in that leature which was tied behind the neck
00:17:41
to a broken stick blonde hair was snared in the knot and the coroner had to cut the hair in order to remove the cord
00:17:50
which was tied more like a noose than a twisting garat the broken paintbrush used as the garat handle had Korea
00:17:58
printed on it when Meyer clipped the nails of each finger no blood or tissue was found that would indicate a struggle
00:18:07
he used the same clippers for all the fingers although doing so created an issue of
00:18:12
cross-contamination for optimal DNA purposes separate and sterile Clippers should have been used for each finger
00:18:21
furthermore we later learned that the coroner's office sometimes used the same Clippers on different autopsy subjects
00:18:28
oh that's that's amazing great job there Captain we could go through the entire autopsy uh I want to kind of go through
00:18:36
and cherry-pick some items but to do the entire autopsy would be an exhausting process it's over 3,000 words long so I
00:18:49
point that out one to not be lazy about it but to point out that it was and appears to be a thorough document
00:18:59
constructed by pathologist Meyer cherry picking some items here at the top of the report Captain we have
00:19:05
name Ramsey J I just want to say real quickly if if you're not willing to take the time to have different Clippers on
00:19:14
each finger I would assume there's some kind of protocol let's just if we're going to
00:19:20
start with that conversation then and yes it's 3,000 words I don't know if that means it's thorough I just meant
00:19:28
the document I said it was a thorough document not a thorough examination the thing here with these
00:19:35
autopsies that gets difficult is you're solely relying usually on one individual
00:19:44
to handle this process properly as you're pointing out here follow protocol and protocol varies depending on what
00:19:52
county you're in what city you're in what state you're in it's I hate to say say this but it truly is a bit of a
00:20:01
willy-nilly process it's one of those situations where you question the science of it because it's human error
00:20:08
and it's and it can be laziness it can be a number of different things yeah and it can be opinion-based correct and the
00:20:17
other thing too is you know I had a discussion once with with some people and they said well there were multiple
00:20:23
hairs found on the body from different sources and that means that there were multiple killers and I said well not
00:20:31
necessarily we've done enough of these cases to realize that that random hairs and fibers can end up on people for a
00:20:37
number of different reasons that are innocent in nature right but to further that along in the way that the way that
00:20:46
I connect this to this conversation is I've reviewed at least two cases where later we learn that one of the hairs
00:20:55
found on the body came from the body bag that the body was placed into and it wasn't cleaned properly or it was a
00:21:03
county that was quite poor and they're just reusing body bags all the time the report States at the top the name of the
00:21:10
decedent is Ramsey John Benet date of birth August 6 1990 age 6 uh sex female autopsy Number 96
00:21:21
a155 death date and time December 26 1996 1323 so 1:23 p.m. this is interesting they have to well I guess
00:21:36
they don't have to but per protocol are supposed to put a time of death on this form whether they come up with an actual
00:21:43
time of death or not and in this situation 1:23 p.m. is put on this document because that's considered to
00:21:54
be the agreed upon time that the body was in in the living room mhm we know she didn't die at 1:23 p.m. and in fact
00:22:04
there was no real time of death that was truly established in this case Steve Thomas says that the detectives were
00:22:12
told to work with a window of 1:00 a.m. to 7 a.m. and then he kind of backs into that
00:22:19
a little bit and shrinks that window based off of some information we know to be true the 911 call comes in 4 6:00
00:22:28
a.m. so you can go ahead and take away 6: to 7: now you're left with 1:00 a.m. to 6:00 a.m. right I like that and I do
00:22:38
like you're going to hear me question Steve Thomas's actions and and theories and
00:22:45
and how he came up with some stuff as we move forward but I want to point out that personally I find his investigation
00:22:54
to be interesting in in a sense that there are pieces of it that seem incredibly thorough where even on the
00:23:01
timeline of the day when the body's found he has multiple times for when people arrive to the house inside his
00:23:09
report and inside his notes some people point out what a terrible job this detective has multiple times for the
00:23:16
same people arriving to the house it this can't be an accurate document right Steve Thomas never claims for that to be
00:23:24
an accurate document what he's saying is I've talked to everybody somebody tells
00:23:28
me person a arrives at this time and then somebody else tells me person a arrived at that time until I can prove
00:23:33
what time that person arrived I'm leaving both in my report and in my notes both are correct so I I find that
00:23:41
portion to be well done on on Mr Thomas's behalf yeah because like you said I mean he's not just going okay
00:23:48
well I talk to this person I talk to this person and I believe this person more right he's just saying he's leaving
00:23:53
it on there until he can prove other otherwise and where I find it a little tricky though is when we have the time
00:24:02
of death when he's discussing what he believes or what he claims the detectives believe to be the time of
00:24:09
death I find that I his theory and the detectives Theory kind of Wiggle that theory gets wiggled into their time of
00:24:19
death in the window that they create you know they're making assumptions that I think
00:24:25
are very dangerous to make in this investigation one being that they say okay well we're told to work
00:24:33
with this window of 1 a.m. to 7 a.m. we know that it was before 6:00 a.m. because of the 911 call we've Shrunk the
00:24:39
window a little bit they they want to shrink this window and I I we need that window to be much smaller than that we
00:24:46
need that window to be shrunken yes so we can really get an idea of what happened and who needs to be accounted
00:24:54
for during that time the thing that I believe that they do that's d dangerous to the investigation is they make the
00:24:59
assumption that the The Ransom letter was penned after the death and that the letter writing process would take a
00:25:09
certain amount of time and thus they can shrink the window even more have you wrote the letter out yourself I have not
00:25:17
but if I sit down and try to write it with my left hand instead of my right it's going to take me even longer right
00:25:23
but I mean do you have like just a guess of how long do you think it would take you to copy
00:25:28
well you say copy but there's a chance that the author was was writing it from you know scratch right yeah that they're
00:25:36
coming up with it and here's the other thing how many times did they how many practice letters could there be you know
00:25:42
there are multiple Pages ripped out from that pad of paper MH uh I believe it's three that they were able to determine
00:25:50
that there were three pieces of paper missing between where they believe the the page one of the letter came from and
00:25:57
and the rough draft let's call it with the Mrs and M or um Mr and Mrs ey at the top of the page right but what I think
00:26:07
people should do is pull out a couple sheets of paper and copy it start by copying it that gives you some kind of
00:26:14
time frame it's that's under 5 minutes so yes it's it's a lot different to create one from scratch but if the
00:26:22
perpetrator brought that note with them under five minutes to copy it yeah over eight hours if you have to sit down and
00:26:29
watch Ransom dirty hay and speed M when you're doing condu it's amazing that they didn't find those tapes at the
00:26:37
scene of the crime right a uh you're right a portable remember those old TV VCR combos yeah black and white yeah
00:26:45
that the per brought it with them all right sorry we're getting getting off track here uh final
00:26:52
diagnosis talkx studies blood ethanol n detected blood drug screen no drugs detected final diagnosis cause of death
00:27:03
of this 6-year-old female is xixia by strangulation associated with cranio cerebral
00:27:10
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can do this when you Angie [Music] that cheers to you Captain I'm raising a big big glass of Christmas bomb 2019 by
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the awesome Folks at Prairie Artis and als's garage grade four out of five bottle caps thanks to everyone who has
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donated to the beer and I don't mean just this week I mean all year long yeah for the last however
00:29:32
many years you keep the lights on and you keep beer in the fridge well in our mouths as well picking up where we left
00:29:41
off here Captain to put it quite frankly just to muddy the waters even more in this case we have basically two causes
00:29:51
of death declared by Mr Meyers MD a term that we will probably be discussing quite a bit I want to describe this to
00:30:00
everyone just so we're all on the same page as we move forward the term will be garat the general consensus being here
00:30:10
that a garat can be made out of many different materials including ropes cable ties fishing lines nylon guitar
00:30:18
strings telephone cord or piano wire anything of that type of nature a stick may be used to tighten the garat this is
00:30:27
a Spanish word which actually refers to the stick itself in Spanish the term may
00:30:33
also refer to a rope and stick used to constrict a limb this basically is a popular murder weapon and for sadist
00:30:43
it's a torture device it's unfortunately a term that we've used many times on the show continuing with
00:30:52
our exam here Captain the deant is clothed in a long sleeve wh- knit colorless shirt the chest area contains
00:31:00
an embroidered Silver Star with silver sequin tied Loosely around the right wrist overlying the sleeve of the shirt
00:31:09
is a white cord at the knot there is one tail end which measures 5.5 in in length
00:31:18
with a Frayed End the other tail of the knot measures 15.5 in in length and ends
00:31:25
in a double loop knot not this end of the cord is also frayed there are no defects noted in the shirt but the upper
00:31:34
right sleeve contains a dried brown stain 2.5x 1.5 in believed to be from the nose or mouth there are long white
00:31:47
underwear with an elastic waistband containing a red and blue stripe the long underwear are urine stained over
00:31:55
the crotch area and legs beneath the long underwear are white panties with printed rose buds and the word Wednesday
00:32:04
on the elastic waistband the underwear is urine stained and the inner aspect of the crotch are several red areas of
00:32:14
staining Measuring Up to.5 in maximum Dimension to touch on this what we've just reviewed here
00:32:22
Captain the in regards to the urine this is a big big thing in this case because
00:32:30
what we would learn very early in the investigation from the Ramsay's housekeeper is that John Benet was known
00:32:39
to wet the bed quite frequently as well her statement to detectives was that often when she would come in in the
00:32:47
morning that py would have already stripped the bed placing the sheets in the washer and then when the housekeeper
00:32:55
would get there you know she'd transfer them to the dryer sheets are dried and then apply them back to the bed and this
00:33:01
was at times a daily routine I believe her statement was that this was a daily routine leading up to about 30 or 40
00:33:10
days before the murder and it had just kind of gone away it was almost like John Benet had grown
00:33:18
up from that that she was no longer wetting the bed I might be mistaken but I think at one point she was not weding
00:33:25
the bed and then she started wetting the bed again that's exactly right that's the same thing that I heard and I
00:33:31
believe that was the statement from the housekeeper the detectives also found pull-ups you know like the they're
00:33:39
they're not quite diapers they're for older children yeah I wear them I I wear them to concerts so I don't have to take
00:33:46
a break to go to the bathroom I don't want to miss anything now I wear them when I'm in the garage there were
00:33:52
pull-ups found in the home and there was some question if John Benet was known to
00:33:58
wear these I'm guessing that she would I don't see why pull-ups would remain in the house when you have children that
00:34:05
are 9 and six years old just look at the pictures of their house man it's a mess
00:34:10
that's true it's a hot mess yes one of the the reason why we point this out here is that one of the big theories
00:34:19
that has lasted all these years is that John B wet the bed that night and in you
00:34:25
know anger anger and an impulsive reaction py freaks out and throws the kid across the room or hits her over the
00:34:35
head with something and it's this all came about because she wet the bed once again right and paty had just been
00:34:44
through it all and this was the final straw she lost it didn't mean to hurt or kill her child but that's what she did
00:34:53
and then I like potty training abuse it's it's actually pretty common like the even people that wouldn't you
00:35:01
wouldn't think would hit their kids or be violent towards their kids they can be if the kid is not being potty trained
00:35:09
correctly or or is not able to do such right so we have to address this because we do have in the autopsy report from
00:35:18
the external examination that there was urine on the clothing I do want to point this out
00:35:26
though we should be clear here that this could have come about at any time it doesn't necessarily mean that
00:35:34
she 100% wet the bed that night no this could have t she could have she could have wet herself during an attack that's
00:35:42
extremely common she could have wet herself after you know in death yeah so to point to that and say hey she had to
00:35:51
have wet the bed and this is the only this is the explanation we've come up with due to that fact
00:35:57
fact again I think that's a dangerous assumption to make in this investigation to further this out a little more and
00:36:07
you know I hate to I hate to throw the warning out there that it's going to get a little gross because it
00:36:13
seems only sensical because we are discussing an autopsy but or the fact that our show is called True Crime
00:36:21
Garage in in the uh when discussing her weding the bed there's also reports that she has
00:36:30
defecated in the bed before multiple times there's also statements that Burke would defecate in John benet's
00:36:43
bed I don't know either one of those to be true it seems to me like the one that
00:36:50
we can really hang our hat on here that seems to be the most true is the bed wedding situation this is brought up by
00:36:57
multiple people mhm and the the other bit I I can't say for certain that that I believe either one of those now what
00:37:07
would be pointed out during this investigation and these aren't my words but bed weding defecating in the bed
00:37:15
things of that nature it was pointed out that sometimes that is what you would see when somebody is being molested not
00:37:25
only molested but us when they're being molested by somebody within the home or within the family the reason for that is
00:37:35
that in those situations sometimes the victim will do that consciously or unconsciously
00:37:43
subconsciously whatever it is M because they want to appear less desirable or gross to the
00:37:53
perpetrator it's almost a way of protecting themselves yeah correct that I point that out because that is
00:38:00
one of the theories as well in this case I also want to State 100% that there's never been any evidence before
00:38:09
or after the murder of John Benet Ramy that John or py had that they were ever involved in
00:38:20
any paraphilia at all yeah cuz let's be clear on something they searched their house I think actually called it there
00:38:28
was one magazine that called this murder Kitty porn murder and they searched the
00:38:33
house for porno and they did not find any right so and then there's also a rumor that they had all these um books
00:38:43
uh or one of the books on in their study was opened up to incest or something like that I believe it was that a
00:38:52
dictionary yeah that the word incest was marked in a dictionary I question that one too
00:39:00
Captain because that's one of those ones that you hear in more salacious reports on this case MH I
00:39:07
really question I feel like that would be a a more well-known fact if it was a fact but we what we do know is a fact is
00:39:16
they didn't find any pornography in the house right and to top that off these both parents have other children there's
00:39:25
you know there's never been any any complaints by any of the other children that that py or was ever
00:39:32
involved in anything like that and to further that out even more we have Melinda on record multiple times saying
00:39:39
her father just wouldn't be capable of such an act and that he be it murder or molestation while we're on the subject
00:39:50
though of the bed wedding situation one thing that I did find particularly strange in this case and this is well
00:39:57
reported too that John Benet Ramsay had 27 doctor visits in the course of the 3 years leading up to her death on an
00:40:08
average that puts her at like N9 a year mhm that's a crazy amount the doctor when asked about this
00:40:17
states that that was for the the pediatrician states that these were for all normal reasons she did have some
00:40:26
sinus issues I guess that would be caused for reoccurring visits I also wonder too we know the situation of The
00:40:35
Accidental time when Burke hit her in the face with the the golf club in the face in the face MH that in itself
00:40:45
though I want to point out just just something like that requires multiple doctor visits I was looking for like a a
00:40:52
a straight up list oh yeah you'd have if there was stitches you have Stitch then
00:40:56
you have to remove the stitches well we know that yeah we know that she went to a
00:41:02
plastic surgeon so just like you pointed out there that that starts with an initial doctor visit referral to
00:41:09
somebody consultation the the surgery a followup right there you have four out of the 27 well you have a stay-at-home
00:41:17
mom so I I think yeah maybe four people that are everybody's working and there's
00:41:23
not a lot of money little thing you're just going to let go but when you have the time to take your daughter in for
00:41:31
every little thing and you have the money to cover it I I don't think that's unreasonable external evidence of injury
00:41:39
located just below the right ear at the right angle of the mandible 1.5 in below
00:41:45
the right external auditorial Canal is a small rust colored abrasion in the lateral aspect of the left lower eyelid
00:41:54
is ptical hemorrhage I'm going to skip some portions of this autopsy report Captain because there are
00:42:02
multiple pages that go through all of these patial hemorrhaging and all the hemorrhaging that takes place we know
00:42:10
that we've already discussed that strangulation was involved and anybody that's listened to this show or other
00:42:16
True Crime shows knows that hemorrhaging occurs during those types of situations
00:42:23
but to specifically describe some of the report here this part I believe to be important wrapped around the neck with a
00:42:32
double knot in the mid line of the posterior neck is a length of white cord similar to that described as being tied
00:42:41
around the right wrist this leg ature cord is cut on the right side of the neck and removed a single black ink Mark
00:42:49
is placed on the left side of the cut and a double black ink mark on the right side of the cut okay so that P portion
00:42:56
of the last two sentences of his report are describing the pathologist actions mhm he's saying I removed it by cutting
00:43:05
it and then I placed markers indicating where the cuts took place the knot is left intact extending from the knot on
00:43:13
the neck are two tails of the knot one measuring 4 in in length and having a Frayed End and the other measuring 17 in
00:43:22
in length with the N tied in multiple loops around 8 tan brown wooden stick which measures 4.5 in in length this
00:43:31
wooden stick is irregularly broken at both ends and there are several colors of paint and varnish on the surface
00:43:39
right printed in Gold letters on one end of the wooden stick is the word Korea the tail end of the other word
00:43:47
extends from beneath the loops of the cord tied around the stick and is not able to be interpreted blonde hair is
00:43:56
entwined in the knot and in the cord wrapped around the wooden stick it appears to be made of white synthetic
00:44:03
material also secured around the neck is a gold chain with a single charm in the
00:44:09
form of a cross examination of the right extremities is unremarkable on the middle finger of the right hand is a
00:44:17
yellow metal band around the right wrist is a yellow metal identification bracelet with the name John Benet on on
00:44:26
one side and the date 12296 on the other side this was a gift from her aunt I believe from paty's
00:44:38
sister and I mean just there's these little sad heartbreaking points in this case all along the way that just remind
00:44:48
you of the pure innocence of this little girl and you know she here she is wearing a gift that she just very recent
00:44:55
recently received him was probably very excited to wear this piece of jewelry that she received from her aunt I mean
00:45:02
it just it it breaks your heart I also think it's not clear in this case on how uh brutal this attack was and that this
00:45:11
gr the way it was set up it almost looked like you'd put a human on a leash and then you'd be pushing their head
00:45:19
down as you pulled the the grot back it's truly horrifying I don't think that there's any
00:45:28
documentary out there that has I don't know what the right word is here Captain but I want to say bothered to describe
00:45:39
how horrific it would have been these injuries are they almost make it sound like it's
00:45:47
Sleeping Beauty lying in a windowless room in the basement and that's not the situation at
00:45:52
all there there's a if anybody that's seen the pictures read the descriptions and we're going
00:46:00
through them here you hear the the the medical speak jargon and it just sounds like textbook
00:46:09
[ __ ] but really in Lay terms it was it's a horrific attack on a on a tiny little
00:46:15
person yeah there's actually two marks on the neck one at the lower part of the neck and then at some point that became
00:46:23
free and they go in deeper and there's actually a couple pictures that you can see how deep the the Rope
00:46:32
goes around her throat it almost disappears yeah and the line that it left at the midline of the throat mhm
00:46:40
after the fact yeah I mean it's just it looks like somebody took a maroon marker
00:46:48
a maroon Sharpie and just drew a line across somebody's neck that's how deep it looked like it was the cord was going
00:46:54
into the neck there was a red ink line drawing in the form of a heart that was found
00:47:03
located on the palm of John benet's left hand the fingernails of both hands are of sufficient length for clipping and we
00:47:11
already discussed that they use the same Clippers to clip all of the fingernails
00:47:17
now you said that there was no nothing found underneath the nails but I thought there was some DNA and
00:47:25
possibly some blood that was found underneath the right hand's finger fingernails so that showing that she
00:47:32
struggled with somebody at some point you're correct there are multiple reports on this detail of the
00:47:40
investigation the bit that I gave you was Steve Thomas's report one of the leading
00:47:47
detectives so I don't know what is the real true answer what I find interesting is that
00:47:56
he follows up his report by saying we later learned that the all the fingernails were clipped with the using
00:48:03
the same Clippers right again I think that points to his thoroughness of saying whether this is right or wrong
00:48:10
this is what happened yeah whether it's right or wrong this is what happened and
00:48:13
then to to add to the weight of that question everything because this also happened right what's the best way to
00:48:23
describe the the cuz there was some I don't want to use the word damage to the vaginal area I don't think that
00:48:35
damage is the right word well would you say indication of I've actually seen this disputed
00:48:44
multiple ways one one claims that there there's evidence that there was at least
00:48:51
some kind of touching to the vagina area did manipulation yeah at the time of death and then they also use the word
00:49:00
chronic now when you hear the word chronic you think oh well this is we going on for a long time no this was
00:49:06
this term would have made sense to meaning that there was something that happened to her um days in advance uh
00:49:14
one of the medical examiners thought that this would happen basically most likely a
00:49:22
individual putting their finger inside of her vagina on the 22nd or the 23rd now other medical examiners have
00:49:34
stated that some of this bruising could be due to hygiene the bed weding the irritation of the irritation yeah of
00:49:42
having urine stained clothing on the skin right up against the skin for well sometimes they get per of time you get
00:49:48
rashes and so then a mother would use um they would get some kind of medication to put on on the rash and you could
00:49:58
then you know that's where you could get some digital what they call it well I think to put it pretty as clean as we
00:50:06
can would be to say that the reports out there State everything from chronic molestation to something as little
00:50:16
as uh irritated skin that could come from urin stained clothes or right but let's be clear about wiping right but
00:50:26
let's be clear about this chronic molestation this is not there was no signs of there's there's no scar tissues
00:50:34
to prove that she was molested for weeks and months and years not true we're talking about the time of her death and
00:50:44
probably once a couple days before that's all they prove it also seems like there was wood fragments found in her
00:50:55
but vagina as well I didn't personally see that in Dr Meyers report yeah I think I saw that from Lou Smith he does
00:51:04
reference um fibers okay as well so again with this with this area of the body it's it's
00:51:14
really it's up for to debate really depending on who you talk to this represents any number of things what I
00:51:22
feel that I've seen and heard the most so I'm going to throw this in the batch of General
00:51:28
consensus would be that just as you pointed out that this is something that occurred either at the time of death or
00:51:35
shortly before and it could be anything from as terrible as digital manipulation or
00:51:43
something uh more vigorous wiping or hygiene no no I I'm rolling all that out what most of the metal cool Samar
00:51:56
state is that the the choking which people so halfhazard want to say is covering up for for something right that
00:52:09
the the choking of John B was is after the fact and therefore it's covering up an accident no the choking was not an
00:52:20
accident it was on purpose it was not meant to kill her it was meant for sexual gratification so if you have a they
00:52:30
believe that there was molestation the time of her death and I I think that's that needs to be fact to
00:52:40
me because it's like you don't have one or the other and a lot of people think because there wasn't penetration with
00:52:49
like a penis that the individual would be um more likely to be a younger or a crazed
00:53:01
or disorganized offender you typically see that right in those types of of murder cases so the report says a 1 cm
00:53:10
red purple area of abrasion is located on the right posterior sorry I'm going to struggle
00:53:17
with some of these words here Captain posterior lateral area of the 1X 1 cm High orice the Hyman itself is
00:53:27
represented by a rim of tissue extending clockwise between the 2 and 10:00 positions the area of abrasion is
00:53:36
present at approximately the 7:00 position and appears to involve the Hyman and distal right lateral vaginal
00:53:46
wall we say all that to point out that it the that's basically saying there's a small amount of damage or injury to that
00:53:54
area yeah bruising yeah one thing that is completely shocking in this whole case shocking to me Captain m is that it
00:54:04
appears that Linda art the pathologist who arrived on the 26 to examine the body at the Ramsay's
00:54:15
home and then several other people as well that nobody realized that this poor girl had been
00:54:22
struck over the head yeah it's it's almost like it took further detection that it wasn't you know you
00:54:30
have the shocking scene of the garat of the cord wrapped around this little girl's throat maybe it's the shock
00:54:38
factor and you you you don't see what what might have been obvious but all the reports I've read and stop me if you've
00:54:45
read any that that are different but it sounds as if this head wound which this this was a massive injury and we'll get
00:54:54
into the details of it but it sounds like sight seen unnoticed right yeah well there's no blood not like massive
00:55:04
pulls of blood right and she had long blonde hair I believe it was was she two two pigtails or ponytails whatever they
00:55:14
call that well yeah I mean I if you've ever seen one of your buddies like hit their head especially when they have
00:55:20
blonde hair it turns bloody real real quick right but what I'm getting at is I don't know how much blood there was
00:55:28
there wasn't right and I don't know I would like to have a pathologist or a doctor sit down with me and tell me the
00:55:38
reasons why there's no blood obviously one she's already dead or near death at the time yeah that's what most medical
00:55:47
examiners when they look at this say look there's a lack of blood so we they believe and all all the credible ones
00:55:54
the most credible ones I've seen with this case State she was choked it was sexually it's for sexual
00:56:03
gratification the perpetrator was choking her either trying to touch her now that would be random that wouldn't
00:56:12
be as much most likely they were touching themselves while they're strangling her uh she there's defensive
00:56:20
wounds around her neck meaning she was trying to stop the choking at at some point some people believe it would have
00:56:28
cut off the blood circulation to her brain um and there's some signs of that they they believe through the autopsy
00:56:38
and so I I can't remember what they call it but it's basically where you're dead um and it's it it happens almost
00:56:49
instantaneously mhm yeah and so they they also believe that you know normally if somebody's trying to strangle
00:56:57
somebody in order to kill them there's a lot of marks that are left like inside the neck muscles their
00:57:05
strains uh different bones and stuff possibly could be broken within the neck and none of that is seen here that's why
00:57:13
they believe that these these Bruises with inside the vagina are from molestation
00:57:23
because the evidence of the choking doesn't like I said it doesn't seem like the purpose of the
00:57:29
choking was to kill her it was to control her so where it gets a little convoluted
00:57:37
is a lot of medical examiners think that during this sexual gratification that the perpetrator then uh either freaked
00:57:48
out or or got into it too much and hit her over the head with something now other people believe
00:57:59
that the perpetrator knew that they that she was dead because they ALS there's also a temporal lobe bruising in the
00:58:08
brain and that's common when somebody is when somebody shakes somebody after death right and so somebody chokes her
00:58:18
doesn't mean to kill her shakes her she's dead and then I think I believe that's when the the Blow To The Head
00:58:30
happened because at that point the heart has stopped it wouldn't be pumping blood
00:58:36
to the to the brain that would be one of the reasons why we wouldn't have pulls of blood everywhere that is one reason
00:58:43
the other reason could be too is do we how much broken skin do we actually have with this strike right and the the
00:58:53
interesting thing here too is the the use of the Gat and the manner that it was used very likely could suggest that
00:59:02
it's it's not only a torture device but it's also a sexual assault device MH where you're using it because that's
00:59:10
what this this sicko is into and sometimes we see this a lot in a lot of cases that we've covered especially with
00:59:19
cereals that they will often choke someone almost to the point of death and then allow them to receive air and then
00:59:29
choke them again right and they believe that was happening with her because there there's signs of that from the
00:59:36
autopsy but let let's be clear that shows like cbs's documentary on this case it doesn't make any sense you can't
00:59:47
start off with the idea of that there was a a Blow To The Head you cannot start that off they believe
00:59:58
this Blow To The Head would have made her brain dead should be unconscious minimum and then because of the brain
01:00:06
swell and the brain bleed should' be brain dead and what happens if you're unconscious or your brain
01:00:14
dead you do not put up a fight if somebody is choking you right so let's be clear there's no need to restrain the
01:00:23
arms right from the perpetrator's perspective right and I know a lot of people are
01:00:30
going to sit there and say well but but all that stuff is to cover up some kind of accident let's be clear that CBS and
01:00:40
everybody involved in that show were irresponsible for putting out that information it's just factually not
01:00:48
correct and if you want to I don't advise that you do this cuz you might have nightmares about this but go look
01:00:55
up go look at pictures of John B Ramsay's neck and see all those half moons of that six-year-old girl trying
01:01:01
to stop somebody from strangling her so this idea that there was Burke accidentally hit her on the head or that
01:01:10
or that during uh changing of uh pajamas or changing of the sheets or whatever that in John's bathroom
01:01:20
right that that that she slipped and hit her head or got tossed AC cross the room
01:01:25
by her mother or struck over the head with a flashlight right to the credit I guess of the of the people that believe
01:01:33
Burke may have killed his little sister via an accident or whatever the skull fracture to me does look like it could
01:01:42
have came by way of golf club it I mean it there's I if anybody looks at that picture and says N I wouldn't think a
01:01:53
golf club could make that well yeah strike I would I well then you're you you need to go get glasses my friend
01:02:00
right because it straight up in the dimensions so let's describe this because not everybody's going to be
01:02:06
fully aware of of this the fracture the skull fracture is huge it measures 8 in in length and the way that this works
01:02:17
out is she would have been struck on the top of her head but it's more the right side the right side of her head
01:02:26
yeah yeah and the the fracture runs from where the where the impact hit on the skull and it runs all the way forward
01:02:36
yeah and then what you have at the top where the impact took place you actually have a full section that broke off it it
01:02:46
runs 8 in in length total but from where the point of impact what we have here is
01:02:52
picture a skull where you have a crack C that runs down the majority of the right
01:02:57
side of the skull uhhuh at the top of that crack where it stops you have a basically a
01:03:04
rectangle shaped piece of the skull that fully broke off on all four sides and that piece itself is quite small I
01:03:13
believe it's 1 and2 in by a half inch but that's that's the rectangle there and then from there you have uh you
01:03:23
would have your remaining so it' be 6 and2 in of a fracture that runs from that broken piece there yeah
01:03:30
and and and cops were looking for this this possibility as well maybe not so much a golf club but it did look into
01:03:39
that Burke had a bat and then they did some tests and then realized they don't believe that would happen through a bat
01:03:47
not saying that the cops were saying that Burke hit her in the head but they were looking for objects yeah yeah uh
01:03:55
then you have a bunch of tests done on the flashlight again I think that's it's reasonable to you see you have a bigger
01:04:04
opening bigger fracture than it goes to um thinner fracture so maybe something like a a big flashlight it would
01:04:13
definitely have like the weight to it to to be able to do to be able to create that that type of fracture but there's
01:04:22
also a picture a crime scene picture sure that there's this it almost looks like um one of the like a fireplace tool
01:04:30
that would also be like if I were to walk around someone's home after seeing the the skull when the skin is pulled
01:04:36
back and see the fracture itself uhhuh if I were to walk around anyone's home and like pick up instruments that I
01:04:43
think could have could have made that impact and left that Mark right on her left that fracture in that manner I
01:04:52
don't think I would go for flashlight I'm not saying it's impossible I wouldn't go for flashlight wouldn't go
01:04:56
for B anything that's kind of rounded doesn't seem to make sense to me I see something where you you need like you
01:05:04
need something where you're almost seeing the like that broken piece of the skull is the outline of whatever hit her
01:05:13
and that to me would be like a yeah like a fire place tool or a golf club anything like that right but if you look
01:05:20
through the crme well it's not possibly it's 100% it has to be you know the the the markings of what
01:05:27
hit her yeah if object hit her um it had to have hit her look at the I mean well
01:05:32
let me finish my thought sorry so first if you look at the crime scene photos there there it looks like some kind of
01:05:40
fireplace tool I don't know what you call those but it's right under poker aren't those the poker things that you
01:05:46
like move the wood around you know how like some people have like the the poers and then they have the brushes and then
01:05:52
they have the shovels and and they have all different kinds of things okay right
01:05:58
it looks like there's one and it's underneath the open window where the suitcase is and you'd
01:06:05
have to go through there's tons of crime scene photos but you have to go through
01:06:09
and you can see it laying on the ground now I can't it's blurry I can't tell you
01:06:13
exactly what it is but I go well we know where the we know where the paintbrush handle came from it came from that room
01:06:21
right that that was used in the garage uh we know that at some point she was in that
01:06:27
suitcase because we have all these uh fibers from her clothes that are in that suitcase so they were going to use well
01:06:38
you you can say you know that I won't I won't be on board with that one I'm not not convinced that she was in the
01:06:43
suitcase okay but what we do have is a suitcase with a bunch of fibers from the clothes that she was wearing that night
01:06:49
so well again I don't know that they were the clothes that she was wearing that night the well that's the report I
01:06:56
that that I saw again but that and I'm not I don't want to sound like I'm challenging you here I'm I'm not
01:07:01
disagreeing with you I'm just saying the information I've reviewed doesn't state
01:07:06
that same stuff right but right with that suitcase where that suitcase is correct underneath that open window
01:07:13
there's a crime scene photo that has some kind of object and I just want because police have stated we haven't
01:07:23
found the object of what hit her on the head right and here's where this is what I
01:07:29
question okay it all has to work on some order like Lou Smith MH keep calling him
01:07:38
Smith it's like his analysis of the the Intruder Theory doesn't work it starts with a stun gun well what does the stun
01:07:48
gun do it incapacitates the person renders them conscious at some point right so very likely too for a small
01:07:59
person we're not talking about a full grown adult we're talking about a very small child and how long are they
01:08:06
incapacitated for th this is what I would want to know I I could yeah I don't think any of us can say because
01:08:13
there's differing you know there's varying degrees of even these stun guns but just as analysis it doesn't make any
01:08:20
sense because if I go okay I'm gonna go up to J's bedroom and I'm going to hit her with this stun gun and that's what's
01:08:27
going to allow me to take her downstairs okay at what point does she eat pineapple so well we should be clear
01:08:36
here for those that don't know there was um a substance found in John Benet upon
01:08:43
the the autopsy findings that suggests that she ate pineapple or a substance that resembles pineapple shortly before
01:08:53
her her death right it was undigested right and then we have crime scene photo photos that have a bowl of pineapple
01:09:01
with milk which I've never heard of if my mother fed me pineapple it was just pineapple in a bowl I don't that's weird
01:09:08
I've heard of yogurt and cottage cheese but never milk I think it's milk again uh don't don't quote me on
01:09:17
that but so but my thought is okay well Lou Smith Lou Smith Smith Intruder Theory have her get
01:09:27
downstairs she wakes up she's supposed to be met by Santa closet at some point she goes downstairs she sits at the
01:09:35
table she makes herself some pineapple maybe she doesn't make herself some pineapple maybe Burke made himself some
01:09:43
pineapple but he went to bed he didn't finish it so she sits there and decides I'll eat a piece of this that's when the
01:09:51
Intruder would have to uh come in contact with her right or I guess she could have woke
01:09:58
up in the middle of the night went downstairs ate some pineapple went back upstairs it's possible uh then you use
01:10:06
the stun gun but again the stun gun doesn't make any sense because once you start trying to control her with the
01:10:13
gro you need defensive wounds I I do want to point out here though too the purpose of the grat may not be yes it's
01:10:22
control but not in the manner that I think that some might be thinking it could be straight up for sexual assault
01:10:31
right type of control and I'm not going to go into it too much I mean uh maybe on off the Record or something I don't
01:10:38
feel comfortable discussing what the garat itself could have been used for the thing I will put my stamp on here
01:10:47
though well before we get into that let's point out that where the stun gun idea comes into play
01:10:54
is that there are pictures there were unfortunately or fortunately I guess depending on how you want to look at it
01:11:01
it's incredibly degrading to the victims involved in this case but autopsy photos
01:11:07
were leaked to the Press yeah at some point and you can view them online still to this day based off of that we have L
01:11:18
Smith who later says look you see these two little what look like little prong marks he said this these came from a
01:11:24
stun gun now you have other experts you have Dr Warner Spitz and I trying to think of what he's most famous for he's
01:11:32
covered he's done so many different cases but Warner spits where our listeners would know him the best from
01:11:38
would be from um West Memphis 3 he was the one that that later viewed the photos and said hey these marks are bite
01:11:46
marks from a from Turtles mhm so that that's that dude he says when he views these photographs these are not stun gun
01:11:55
marks they're they're he would expect what he's looking for is a stun gun basically is leaving an electrical burn
01:12:03
type mark on the skin yeah I and he says that what he's seeing doesn't does not appear to be a burn to him I don't see
01:12:11
that on her back the marks on their back that a lot of people think are like maybe a train track set um which would
01:12:19
have been in the room that she possibly was molested in that's the other thing too she has
01:12:26
multiple scrapes and stuff on her back and marks on her arms and stuff like that basically that she was
01:12:34
squirming during the time that she was molested and so could she got these marks on her back at that point yes but
01:12:42
the marks on her face to me I see what looks like a burn between the two marks and you would expect a good deal of
01:12:51
struggle and squirming if in in fact she was being choked and there was some type
01:12:56
of sexual assault prior to death yeah this is what I said I was going to put my stamp on here Captain reviewing the
01:13:04
pictures of the skull I don't know science I'm not a pathologist I'm not claiming to be an expert you take this
01:13:11
for whatever you for what it is it's it's some dumb guy in a garage giving his opinion wait no I should I should go
01:13:19
then should be my turn then but what my opinion is is based off of these photographs the damage to the skull man
01:13:27
I don't think that Burke would have had the strength regardless of weapon to create
01:13:36
this type of damage in one single blow this looks to me to be one single solid hit to the skull mhm I also will go
01:13:46
further and say I don't think and I've seen pictures of John benet's bathroom M the theory that py lost control and
01:13:56
threw her across the room and this was some kind of head injury that occurred when she got thrown across the room or
01:14:02
she hit her head on something after being slapped by paty I'm not saying that paty's innocent what I'm saying is
01:14:09
this injury did not come from anything like that in my opinion this is a single strike a very violent strike to the Head
01:14:19
single strike with with a lot of strength behind it and a lot of force behind it the other thing I will say too
01:14:27
I beg anyone to go out there and look up the garat or what they are calling a garat in this case because what I see
01:14:38
here this is one of those rare times in the case where you see some level of criminal sophistication and what I mean
01:14:45
by that is this this weapon this torture device here appears to me this wasn't the first time time whoever constructed
01:14:54
this this was not the first time that they put one of these things together well most medical examiners call these
01:15:00
kns sophisticated yeah these are not these aren't knots made by a 9-year-old when I look at this what I see if you I
01:15:09
would love if somebody would take the pictures like if I could go back and unsee them and somebody could take away
01:15:15
the words John Benet Ramsay from the photographs and just hand them to me and go oh what's that what's this from what
01:15:22
do you think this is what I see there Captain without anything clouding my vision is an intricate torture device
01:15:32
constructed for the sole purpose of sexual assault yeah and it seems like most of the medical experts
01:15:41
believe again during this sexual assault during this torture that this individual
01:15:49
lost control and ended up hidden in on the head but that at that point the brain wasn't pump the heart wasn't
01:15:56
pumping to the brain already like that's a real thing I guess during strangulation that that will stop
01:16:06
first and it slows it along the way yeah it's still the person's still alive technically but there's no blood or
01:16:14
oxygen pumping to the brain now meaning she'd be brain dead they hit her on the head cuz they lost control or it was
01:16:22
part of fantasy or whatever I think that's a very good possibility but like I said we have fibers whether you want
01:16:31
whether you want to believe this or not because there's experts that contradict each other over and over but there's
01:16:37
fibers in that suitcase and my thought is that this individual for whatever reason the sexual gratification was
01:16:46
going to be better for them uh if they molested her inside the house knowing that our family was there there
01:16:57
was excitement there once they figured out she's dead that wasn't part of the plan The Ransom notes already sitting on
01:17:09
the staircase right mhm I have to get her out of here I am going to use the suitcase to transport her I put
01:17:21
her in the suitcase at this point point no blow to the head I think it's possible that an individual put her in
01:17:28
that suitcase and tried to lift her up through that window and then dropped her and landing on her head yes yes
01:17:40
their suitcase would hit first but she's inside the suitcase and I think that's possibly what
01:17:48
created um that fracture you pointed out something that's very important in this case and
01:17:56
just with every aspect of this case there's so many different opinions there's so many different even expert
01:18:03
opinions and regarding the autopsy itself cause of death injuries to John B how those injuries occurred we've had
01:18:12
many very reputable good solid experts over the years examine this case but what they've examined have been
01:18:20
photographs and what they've examined have been documents there's only been one pathologist to examine the body and
01:18:28
that was Dr Meyers MD in [Music] 1996 for all of our old episodes check us out exclusively on the Stitcher app
01:18:42
and we have a weekly show on Stitcher premium called off the Record cheers to you captain and thanks to everybody out
01:18:48
there for listening thank you for telling a friend and thank you for all of the wonderful festar reviews please
01:18:55
join us back here in the garage next week for episode five until then be good be kind and don't
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