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brand [Music] [Music] never [Music] welcome to True Crime garage wherever you are whatever you are doing thanks
00:01:47
for listening I'm your host Nick and no one would let us do a show on TV for your eyeball so with my co-host we do
00:01:54
this show for your earballs ladies and gents the captain well if it's going to be that kind of party I'm I'm going to
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stick my dick in the mashed potatoes it's good to be seen and good to see you thanks for listening thanks for telling
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a [Music] friend today we got glasses full of tropical hazy by the good folks over at
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zaftig this is a New England IPA complete with glorious passion fruit orange and guava garage grade four and
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3/4 bottle caps out of five and we've got to give some credit where credit is due so thanks and praise to Elizabeth in
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woster Ohio and a big shout out to Katie L in Lakewood Ohio next up we have sisters Catherine and Jacqueline in
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Austin Texas that's funny a lot of people think we're sisters a big shout to Sarah H in New York we are sorority
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sisters and here's the cheers to Jennifer and Seymour Connecticut and last but certainly not least we have a
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big shout out and longdistance cheers to Alice and kagali Rwanda so nice of her to contribute to this week's beer fund
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for more fun and to stay in touch follow the show on Twitter and Instagram and follow me on untapped just search for
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True Crime garage all right B We R beer run and that is enough of the business all right everybody gather around grab a
00:03:23
chair grab a beer let's talk some true crime [Music] all right Captain what we have here and
00:03:44
I'm going to throw in a little criticism before we get going too far along because what has been the biggest part
00:03:52
of this case that has been criticized is that the Somerville Police Department that they locked on to to Eddie O'Brien
00:04:01
too early in their investigation as their number one suspect and not only did they not only did he become a
00:04:08
suspect too quickly for some people's liking but they locked in on him and failed to look elsewhere I'm going to
00:04:16
give my own criticism I agree with the the part of locking on to Edward O'Brien what I don't agree with is the
00:04:25
criticism that they that he became a suspect too quickly they had evidence that suggest he should be a suspect in
00:04:33
this case he had stab wounds or or defensive wounds or however you want to look at those cuts by a knife we have a
00:04:40
woman murdered by a knife we have an individual that has cuts by a knife that they call 911 and he is I think you said
00:04:49
half a mile away from the scene of the crime yeah you have a you have his fingerprint a bloody in blood in wet
00:04:58
blood at the the crime scene M you have what cannot be ruled out as the victim's
00:05:05
blood on his shin so there is evidence linking him to the crime scene then we have the issue of two weeks after his
00:05:14
arrest he says yes I was at the crime scene right and here's what really happened but before we get too far along
00:05:23
Captain what I want to mention is is the fact that they locked in on him and then
00:05:28
they failed to recognize the possibility of well do we have anybody else that could have done this I think they were
00:05:35
overtaken and blinded by what little evidence they had at the time where I want to go with this is there's two
00:05:43
other people that could be considered a suspect and I say two other people because really we know and I think you
00:05:52
will agree with me that regardless of this timestamp where the some sources say she was killed between 8:00 p.m. and
00:06:00
10: p.m. right that cannot be it it just cannot be okay maybe she was killed between 8 and
00:06:09
9:15 but that's as long as you can take this timeline out why because either one
00:06:15
of two stories is correct either Eddie O'Brien killed her and then fled the scene remember he he said to have been
00:06:24
seen by eyewitnesses leaving the area at 9:20 p.m. M or he didn't kill her and his story is
00:06:34
correct that he showed up went into the house and she was already dead when he got there around 9:15 so whatever
00:06:40
happened to Janet Downing whoever murdered her murdered her either Eddie did it when he got to the house or she
00:06:47
was already dead when he got there that leaves us with two other potential suspects in my mind yes there could have
00:06:53
been a whole heck of a lot of people that could have done this but I say two for this reason one we have Paul Downing
00:07:02
who by his own admission was in the home from approximately 8:15 to 8:30ish we know Janet Downing was alive
00:07:10
at 8:00 when the group of boys left her house but even with all of this evidence
00:07:16
against Eddie is it possible that we have a different suspect maybe even a better suspect right I'm going to bring
00:07:24
up a guy named Ry Ortiz Arty Ortiz is Janet downing's brother-in-law he is married to her sister he was kicked out
00:07:34
of the house he and his wife lived with the downings for over a year they were kicked out of the home in March of
00:07:45
1995 Janet Downing would tell friends that she kicked them out of her home because she believed that R Ortiz was
00:07:54
dealing selling drugs out of her house right okay we need to talk about a woman named Gina Mahoney Gina Mahoney is
00:08:04
arguably one of Janet downing's best friends leading up to her murder Janet Downing and Gina Mahoney spoke several
00:08:15
times at length the day of her murder Gina Mahoney says that on several occasions she saw Ry Ortiz's cab he was
00:08:25
a cab driver she saw his cab parked outside of the house the Downing house after he was kicked out of the home when
00:08:34
nobody was home when the kids weren't home when Janet was home well didn't also neighbors say that they saw his
00:08:41
vehicle there from time to time after the time period of him being kicked out yes the other thing that's interesting
00:08:49
is the the reason why this is very important to Gina Mahoney is because she's had conversations with Janet
00:08:56
Downing where Janet has told her are Ortiz still has keys to my home and refuses to give them back and refuses to
00:09:04
give them back and that's where Gina Mahone is saying well not only does he have those keys I've seen his vehicle
00:09:10
parked near your home when I know nobody is home now she's not saying I know he was going in your house or I know he was
00:09:17
doing anything weird she's just saying when you were not home and when the kids were not home I've seen on several
00:09:24
occasions his cab parked by your house that day Janet Downing tells Gina Mahoney
00:09:33
that she is afraid of Ry Ortiz and that she that he has been harassing her since
00:09:41
he she kicked him out of the house all right now that's suspicious that's heay whatever yeah but we also
00:09:49
don't have anybody in her life saying that she was fearful of this gentle giant that lived across the street yeah
00:09:59
a little more background on that on Eddie O'Brien his parents lived on Boston Street his entire life Janet
00:10:06
Downing knew Eddie O'Brien his entire life MH she had lived there since the the late 70s and you're right nobody
00:10:15
ever said that Janet Downing told them that she was afraid of this 15-year-old boy he he was over at the house all the
00:10:22
time it was his best friend's house so more importantly than this hearsay bit is this story Gina
00:10:30
Mahoney says that on the night of Janet downing's Murder She Was Out on her front porch she's watching what is going
00:10:38
on over at her friend's house Janet downings this is the the the police lights the ambulance sirens this is all
00:10:45
a big commotion she's out on her front porch now wondering what happened at her friend's house wondering if her friend
00:10:52
is okay and she's watching it from her front porch she says that at 10 p.m. she sees Ry Ortiz walking his hair is wet
00:11:04
and freshly combed Ry then engages in conversation with Gina he says that he is there
00:11:13
because his dispatcher told him that his sister-in-law Janet Downing has been murdered Gina finds this immediately
00:11:24
very off-putting finds it to be very strange considering that the EMTs and the police are still at the Downing
00:11:31
house Janet's still in the house right nobody really knows what's going on at this point but he's saying that his
00:11:39
dispatcher knows what's going on and told him that Janet Downing had been murdered little fishy right it's a
00:11:47
little fishy I I don't know little fishy you know I don't know if if the dispatcher would be you know listening
00:11:55
to police scanner or if or if that could explain it but gets a little more interesting than that because at the
00:12:02
same time that she's talking with Ry Ortiz she says that she spots his green taxi cab his cab is parked on Hamlet
00:12:13
Street this is this is the street that runs up the side of the along the side of the Downing house M she says that his
00:12:22
cab is parked on Hamlet Street and it's facing the wrong way his vehicle according to Gina is parked on the same
00:12:29
side of Hamlet Street as the Downing home but his cab is facing Highland Avenue it should be facing the other
00:12:36
direction which is Boston Street Gina says that Ortiz's cab is blocked in this is 10:00 they're having their
00:12:44
conversation she sees his cab it's blocked in by a fire Tru a police vehicle and an
00:12:50
ambulance well what would that tell us either or's vehicle dropped out of the sky and fell to that spot mhm or he was
00:12:59
parked there before emergency Personnel arrived responding to the scene mhm then
00:13:05
here is something very bizarre Ry Ortiz during his conversation with Gina he discovers
00:13:13
he can't find his keys in any of his pockets he tells Gina he can't find his keys he leaves
00:13:22
Gina's front yard and runs over to his cab where she says she can see him crawling around inside the vehicle and
00:13:30
very obviously looking for his keys mhm after several minutes he gets out of the
00:13:35
cab and steps foot onto the Downing property which of course is a crime scene by now so of course he is stopped
00:13:45
by an officer he asked the officer if he could be allowed to go into the backyard
00:13:51
and search for his keys why would his keys be there oh well oh how how astute of you to
00:13:59
contemplate that good job C fish fishy the officer told Ortiz that this would not be possible this is a crime
00:14:08
scene so then Ortiz goes back to Gina's front yard and again he's talking with her then he asked her if she thought
00:14:17
that the cops would be there much longer you think these cops are going to be here much longer hey you think
00:14:24
they're going to you think they're going to like take her dead body and move it real quick cuz I need to find my keys
00:14:31
she tells him yes I do think that they will be here for a while and then he goes on again and says that he needed to
00:14:39
get into the backyard so he could find his keys because he needed to return the cab back to his work eventually I don't
00:14:46
know if he grew tired or what but that same night he had the cab towed he never found the he didn't get the keys that
00:14:53
night he had the cab towed back to his work very interesting story well and look if somebody would have told the
00:15:02
police this this is some evidence they could have looked for inside the house which obviously they didn't look for and
00:15:10
then we have Eddie O'Brien's story that he was he says he was too afraid to tell
00:15:15
anybody because he was threatened by a man with dark hair Ry Ortiz has dark hair all right let's go to the trial
00:15:25
Captain so leading up to this trial We have basically is for two years they fight over the idea of should this boy
00:15:36
who was 15 at the time of the murder he's 15 and five months old at the time of the murder should he be tried as a
00:15:42
juvenile or as an adult and the whole purpose in reading that summary in our trailer of dulos's article and what he
00:15:54
called the coming of the juvenile super Predator was because at the time in our country several states were
00:16:05
battling with the idea because there was a rise in violent crime and murders committed by
00:16:12
juveniles the idea at the time was do we try these juveniles ages 14 to 17 as adults not only do we try them as adults
00:16:25
but can we sentence them to life in prison without the possib AB ility of parole because you have his article that
00:16:32
points out that hey a big batch of these dudes are just evil you cannot rehabilitate them and they are super
00:16:40
Predators they are monsters I don't want to fully condemn his article because what we have John dulio saying in that
00:16:50
article that I left out of the trailer he was saying that our parents and our communities need to be raising
00:16:59
these children and raising these boys better so that they grow up and they have feelings and empathy and they care
00:17:05
about each other and they care about others and they care about their neighborhoods and their communities or
00:17:11
they understand consequences right he was proposing to build more churches not prisons that sounds great to me help
00:17:21
build more McDonald's and Burger Kings too he is just saying that that punishment isn't the key raising these
00:17:28
kids properly to be good citizens and good adults will help mold them into not being killers and not being criminals M
00:17:39
what some states decided the solution was try them as adults lock them up with a life sentence without the possibility
00:17:47
of parole basically lock them up and throw away the key and then let everybody know this is what happens to
00:17:54
you if you commit murder right so for two years they fought over the idea should could Eddie O'Brien be tried as a
00:18:00
juvenile or as an adult and he was arrested as we said in Late July of 1995 he was indicted on August 2nd of
00:18:13
that same year what we have in 1996 we have judge Paul heffernon orders O'Brien who's now 16 to be tried as a
00:18:24
juvenile if convicted he would face a maximum of a 20 year sentence mhm in July of that same year the governor of
00:18:33
Massachusetts signs into law a bill that would require juveniles over age of 14 accused of first or second degree murder
00:18:42
to be tried as adults so then the sup Supreme Judicial Court decides that the judge that said O'Brien should be
00:18:51
charged as a juvenile well we're going to toss that out right we're going to toss that out and on May 9th of 19
00:18:59
1997 so we're now at a over a year and a half after this kid was first locked up
00:19:05
it was decided that O'Brien who is 17 at this time would be ordered to face murder charges in the adult court system
00:19:13
whatever happened to the right the right to a speedy trial what did we say in that one show you have the right to a
00:19:19
speedy trial you just may not get one right and because they're fighting over laws it seems like a lot of our laws
00:19:26
lately or a lot of these cases where you go we know that the person has the right
00:19:30
to they just never they never gave him the opportunity to well and Eddie O'Brien whether he killed Janet down
00:19:37
Downing or not fell into a very bad he had very bad luck on on many levels but on this level where at the
00:19:46
time where some of these states were considering combating juvenile violence and murders committed by juveniles by
00:19:55
locking them up and throwing away the key as we just said the the people that were opposed to that
00:20:02
were pointing out that hey that kind of setup is aimed at locking up African-American black youth children
00:20:13
and throwing away the key and so some people were pointing out that they thought it was you know it was racially
00:20:19
biased to do this and it does make sense because at the time there it was everybody that wanted to attack the rise
00:20:28
in gang juvenile gang violence in the country in the inner cities right and so Eddie O'Brien then
00:20:36
became well we got this white kid who lives near Boston and he stabbed this woman across the street 98
00:20:46
times so what better way to go no we this is not racially biased this is against the board across the board which
00:20:54
it was but now you can point to this exact incident this exact situation and go this is what we're going after this
00:21:03
sexual sadist who grew up across the street from these nice people so what we have here Captain is once we are at
00:21:11
trial you have the prosecution who's going to have to present the theory to the jury and walk the jury hand inand
00:21:19
along the way down the path and point to evidence that convinces them of their theory that says you know what we
00:21:27
believe this happened because we have this piece of evidence to support that portion of our Theory and we're going to
00:21:35
walk you all the way from Step a all the way to step Z and then you're going to give us a guilty conviction afterwards
00:21:43
they say that Eddie O'Brien was obsessed with Janet Downing that he became obsessed with her that he was watching
00:21:50
her and he was asking unusual questions about Janet Downing and that was proof that he was sexually obsessed with this
00:21:59
woman one of the questions that he asked was he asked Janet's son his best friend
00:22:06
Ryan why does your mother sit in the driveway she would pull up and sit in her car for a very long time often after
00:22:17
arriving home I believe she was a smoker I've seen some people say that she was a
00:22:22
smoker so that would make some sense what the prosecution did to support this he's obsessed with her is
00:22:31
they had four different people testify that Eddie obrien asked why does she sit in the driveway for a long period of
00:22:41
time in her car the problem with that is it paints a picture that he was asking multiple people this question the truth
00:22:49
of it is he asked this question to Ryan in front of a group of people right so you have this you have multiple people
00:22:59
testifying over and over again to the same thing but really it it's only from one incident he didn't ask multiple
00:23:04
people multiple times it happened once and further it's not that weird of a question well there were other people
00:23:11
that testified that they had they had disc had the same discussion with other people other neighbors wondered why she
00:23:18
sat in the driveway yeah for a long period of time sometimes back in the day I'd be listening to NPR and I'd get home
00:23:26
and NPR would have another 10 15 minutes left and it's like well I'll just sit here finish the show Howard Stern has
00:23:34
made me a victim of sitting in a parking spot or in my driveway for years now I got to I got to stay on until the
00:23:41
commercial break yeah so hold up a sign that says no flicky flicky and you'll be
00:23:46
fine what what they think is going on th this is this is interesting too is did he ask any other questions there yes he
00:23:54
did ask if Ryan he asked Ryan if if Janet was a lesbian and that seems like a very bizarre question to ask I think
00:24:03
it sounds like an immature question he's 15 yeah and we did have a person who testified that said she had a discussion
00:24:15
with big Ed with Eddie's father and they were talking about Janet Downing mind you these people they
00:24:23
practically live on their front porches in the summertime they're all friends they all know each other mhm they can
00:24:28
all see each other's business and these two people were saying you know Big Ed and this this
00:24:35
woman were were commenting on how Janet had not had a male companion since the divorce between her and her husband yeah
00:24:45
some but one of the adults posed the question to the other maybe she's a lesbian yeah or maybe it just takes her
00:24:53
some time maybe she's raising these four kids by herself and she just doesn't have the time to go try to find some but
00:25:00
where this plays into look the the prosecution's going to point out that this is a big deal that Eddie O'Brien
00:25:06
asked this question it's not it's not a big it's not a big deal because of the testimony of this woman who says Eddie
00:25:14
O'Brien was in the room and overheard this conversation between two adults so him being a kid a child probably thought
00:25:24
well maybe there's some Merit to it and he asked his friend who happens to to be
00:25:28
the son of this woman is your mother a lesbian it's one of those things that on the surface it seems bizarre when you
00:25:35
read it that in the paper it seems bizarre that Eddie O'Brien would ask this but then when you get the full
00:25:41
story his dad and other people saying some stuff and maybe some rumors around town and he said I'm going to ask my
00:25:48
friend ask my friend so that day the day that Janet Downing was murdered the prosecution points out one thing that
00:25:56
Eddie is at the home and he learns that the the kitchen door to the home is broken the way that this works is that
00:26:04
if you were to turn the door knob on either side either on the outside or the inside it does not operate the door his
00:26:12
friend explains to Eddie that because of you know the purpose of security we added a deadbolt to this door that same
00:26:24
day Eddie remember he goes into the den and sees Janet Downing sleeping on the couch we then have the boys agree that
00:26:33
they're going to go swimming and the prosecution would point out that Eddie didn't want to go swimming because once
00:26:39
he learned of the broken door to the house and saw Janet Downing sleeping on the couch that his obsession kicked in
00:26:48
oh yeah and that he figured out you know what I'm not going to go swimming with these guys I'm going to come back in
00:26:54
here access the house through the broken door and I can get to her while she's sleeping on the
00:27:00
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00:29:31
some of the facts or some of what the prosecution says is evidence against Eddie O'Brien in this case remember the
00:29:39
newspaper said that they have three separate eyewitnesses who saw Eddie O'Brien fleeing from the Downey House
00:29:49
fleeing the scene and technically that's not the case nobody saw him running from the house what they
00:29:56
see is is two of the witnesses anyway see him running from the backyard area or the bushes that are near the Downing
00:30:04
home MH where the problem comes in for the prosecution at trial is that one of the persons that
00:30:14
says that they saw Eddie O'Brien says under o oath I don't know for certain that it was Eddie O'Brien that it was a
00:30:22
tall person that was about the same size as Eddie but I'm not 100 % convinced that it was Eddie because when I saw
00:30:31
this person I said I called out to him by name to which he didn't turn around and he didn't respond right the other
00:30:39
witness their story changed three times before it was Eddie O'Brien that they saw running from that area well that's a
00:30:48
strong witness yeah it it was I don't know who it was I couldn't see who it was and then the final story was he
00:30:55
turned and looked at me and kind of smiled and it was Eddie O'Brien you pointed out something interesting
00:31:01
earlier about Eddie's clothes and they're remarkably clean for having just stabbed someone 98 times mhm the third
00:31:10
witness offers up a little bit of reasoning as to why Eddie O'Brien might have appeared to be clean or at least
00:31:18
his clothes appeared to be clean after having attacked This Woman This witness says that in their yard something
00:31:26
startled them so looked out the window and they saw Eddie O'Brien jump a fence in their yard fleeing from the area
00:31:35
Eddie O'Brien at this time according to this witness was wearing a black shirt and when he went up and over the fence
00:31:42
he could see a white shirt underneath the black shirt okay well there's your solution Eddie O'Brien was wearing a
00:31:50
black shirt he murdered this woman fled the area took off the black shirt had the white shirt underneath dumped the
00:31:56
black shirt somewhere right and none of the blood soaked through none of it soaked through but here's some problems
00:32:02
with this eyewitness's testimony first of all they don't outwardly say 100% it was Eddie O'Brien
00:32:09
it was saying somebody that said Eddie lived in my neighborhood his whole life I know who Eddie is the person I saw was
00:32:16
about the same height and had the same body type as Eddie O'Brien what I'm pointing out here is there's a chance
00:32:23
that this eyewitness saw somebody jump their fence right it just might not have been Eddie O'Brien now you've seen the
00:32:29
size and the stature of this boy it would be difficult to confuse him with somebody else right can we agree on that
00:32:37
yeah but the other problem is I think he stated that Eddie was 250 lbs there's no
00:32:42
way by looking at Eddie being 6'4 was he 250 lb he was probably closer to 300 lb
00:32:50
that's a lot of man meat to try to get over a fence depending on how big the defenses well this looks good for the
00:32:58
prosecution because it explains away the lack of blood on Eddie's shirt what looks really bad for the
00:33:06
prosecution is the eyewitness's testimony that says he saw this person who he believes to be Eddie O'Brien
00:33:12
jumping the fence this was at 10:15 p.m. we know that is impossible as Eddie O'Brien was at the midnight convenience
00:33:22
store being interviewed by police and examined by EMT workers at that time so this eyewitness testimony you just have
00:33:30
to toss it completely out that kind of go yeah if you saw somebody man it was not Eddie O'Brien because I have police
00:33:38
and EMTs that will say he was down at Union Square in this convenience store yeah but all these changing stories of
00:33:45
the eyewitnesses it would have to make a a jury or a judge start thinking that the
00:33:51
the prosecution is finding people that are just willing to say anything yeah but what I like about this testimony by
00:33:58
two of the eyewitnesses the ones that it could be possibly Eddie Eddie O'Brien that they saw is this actually in my
00:34:06
mind works out in Eddie's favor it doesn't work out in the prosecution's favor because Eddie O'Brien has already
00:34:12
said yes I was at the scene that night right I went into the home and then I fled out the back door at the Cellar
00:34:19
Door I crashed into the bushes and then I ran down Hamlet Street where it looks good for Eddie O'Brien is these w
00:34:26
Witnesses say that it was at 9:20 p.m. Eddie O'Brien and three Witnesses say that he was at his home at 9:15 and went
00:34:35
across the street immediately to the Downing home and then saw what was going on his life was threatened and then he
00:34:42
left the area why that looks good for him you mean to tell me that in the course of Simply five minutes just five
00:34:50
minutes Eddie O'Brien managed to somehow get into the home leave no sign of of a
00:34:57
forced entry brutally attack Janet Downing drag her from the den where she's sleeping or believed to have been
00:35:04
sleeping into the living room and during all of this stabbing her 98 times yeah it seems a little difficult
00:35:12
for that to be done and then on top of that if if he's not covered in blood did he did he wash up before leaving the
00:35:19
Downing house again we're adding time to this it's just getting more improvable by you know by the testimony but she
00:35:27
was she able to defend herself at all like being able to scratch up this individual or well that's where we get
00:35:36
into some of the blood evidence there is certainly blood evidence that points to
00:35:41
Eddie O'Brien having been at the scene which makes him look very guilty we got the we got the fingerprint in in the wet
00:35:49
Blood on the uh beam going down the stairs to The Cellar right that matches his fingerprints we have a drop of blood
00:35:57
that is later found on his shin that is type A and a very small percentage of people have type A blood so it's not
00:36:06
100% that it's Janet downings but it looks very likely that it is right if that's her blood and he's also stayed in
00:36:13
he was there at the scene he says he touched her he rolled her over it's possible he got some of her blood on him
00:36:19
and he didn't kill her if we believe his story and some of the blood he would have got off when he went to the store
00:36:25
and cleaned himself off there's the problem though Captain they found other blood evidence at the scene it's labeled
00:36:33
as identifiable meaning that the sample's good enough to find a match to it m it's
00:36:39
identifiable but it has not been matched to anybody it's not been tested against
00:36:47
anybody other than Eddie O'Brien right it's not like they rounded up 10 12 15 suspects and tested all their blood and
00:36:55
said uh we we've cleared you well that goes back to people's complaints about this case of law enforcement locking
00:37:02
into him too early or too quickly I think I think the issue is not so much too early it's it it's well it's it's
00:37:11
the wording that I struggle with because you're absolutely right it's it is locking in on him not only is he our
00:37:17
number one suspect but nobody else could have possibly have done this we're only
00:37:21
going to look for evidence to build our case against Eddie O'Brien and I'll tell
00:37:26
you what man I don't really fault the police I don't fault the Somerville police for that I
00:37:32
fault the prosecution because the police their job is to collect evidence to collect facts
00:37:40
make an arrest hand it off to the prosecutor and then the prosecutor decides do we take this to court do we
00:37:47
convict this man and then the prosecutor didn't at no point looked back and say well wait a second we have we have a a
00:37:56
third type of blood found at the scene that has we've been told it's not Eddie O'Brian's right can we test this against
00:38:05
any other suspects right we're not going to round up any other people in this this whole big mess and and test it
00:38:12
against their blood so that that's where it gets to be to be very difficult and then what gets
00:38:21
to be extremely difficult for Eddie for today because what we have here captain is he will be found guilty of murdering
00:38:31
Janet Downey the the trial lasted roughly about two weeks it started on September 17th and
00:38:40
on September 30th the defense rest now the defense only presented for two days during this trial and after 9 hours of
00:38:50
deliberation Eddie O'Brien was found guilty on first-degree murder so he's sentenced to life and in prison without
00:38:57
the possibility of parole this is the mandatory uh sentence under state law after that was signed signed into effect
00:39:08
in uh 19 what did we say 1996 MH one of the big problems for Eddie O'Brien is this story about R Ortiz and being
00:39:18
parked near the home on the night in question it never comes up during trial his defense at attorney didn't
00:39:27
bring it up that's whiffing it his his because his defense attorney didn't want to the the problem with presenting Eddie
00:39:36
side of the story is it places him at the crime scene that's what his his defense attorney thought right where I
00:39:44
say I say the opposite you need to explain why some physical evidence puts him at the crime
00:39:51
scene right there's only reasonable doubt if we hear that side of the story there's only reasonable doubt if Eddie
00:39:59
does Place himself at the crime scene and then we have alternative suspects because what the jury gets told the
00:40:05
story they get told is we have proof that he was there and when he was first asked if he was there he said
00:40:12
no well that makes him look awfully guilty yeah or it makes him look like an immature scared 15-year-old well and
00:40:20
that's why I went through that whole bit of the the life sentence without the possib ility of parole the kid was 15
00:40:28
years and 5 months old now yes this is a a horrific crime if you're ever going to
00:40:33
get life without the possibility of parole to me it's justified in a case like this the problem is if you're going
00:40:40
to take a 15-year-old and lock them up and throw away the key you better be damn sure you got the right
00:40:47
15-year-old you better be sure you got the right guy and I think there's questions about
00:40:54
if he even did this I I don't think his size helps well here's here's the other thing too I
00:41:02
think asking a group of people asking a room of people to believe that we have this physical evidence we have this kid
00:41:11
who later says yeah I was there but this is what happened oh and by the way not only did I find a victim who was just
00:41:17
murdered fled her home and then within minutes I was attacked and stabbed myself asking a room of people to
00:41:25
believe that what are the chances right you no one's going to believe that and to be honest
00:41:32
with you I'm not sure that I believe it I'm not saying that this is a wrongful conviction because I believe Eddie
00:41:38
O'Brien I'm saying that I question the conviction Beyond A Reasonable Doubt because I don't think that any
00:41:46
alternative was explored no alternative was even presented at the trial and also frankly I believe the
00:41:54
story against Ry Ortiz why was his cab parked there right why didn't he have his keys right why
00:42:03
did he need to go into the backyard to look for him exactly why wouldn't he give the
00:42:10
keys over in the first place why was he visiting her house without her knowledge
00:42:15
or her not being there so what do you think Captain do you think Eddie did it or well Eddie has also um not Eddie
00:42:25
but Arty Arty has a possible more more likely of a motive you'd be mad because she kicked
00:42:33
you out there's and that she also is they have bad blood between them right and she's telling people that she's
00:42:40
afraid of him Eddie I just don't understand the motive if it's sexual in nature why wasn't there any sexual
00:42:48
assault not saying that every murder that is sexual in nature has any type of assault but but I also don't see a
00:42:58
history of this gentle giant which everybody called a gentle giant they they call him the monster the monster
00:43:06
15-year-old right they called him a gentle giant so the motive doesn't make a lot of sense to me as far as Eddie's
00:43:15
concerned they also make it seem like oh now he is here was his big opportunity I I don't see that as being
00:43:24
such I don't know and there's just no history he has no history well and that's why they need for the general
00:43:33
public us to believe you know the the Commonwealth's argument inside of the story is that this was a monster in the
00:43:40
making he's a sadistic killer and this is the there's no proof of that this is the first that we're
00:43:47
seeing of it because he was so young stabing somebody 98 times that's that's the first of it there there's normally
00:43:54
some kind of progression we've see this time and time again um violence towards animals no I agree but but violence
00:44:03
towards family MERS teachers it would not be impossible for this to be bubbling up under the surface without
00:44:10
anybody knowing that that's what I have a problem with right right I think if he was
00:44:20
obsessed with her on some level maybe making some in inappropriate sexual advancement to her or something like
00:44:27
that would make a lot more sense but this idea that oh he was so obsessed with her with with no evidence of that
00:44:35
zero evidence of that that he was somehow obsessed with her and that caused him to stab her 98 times it's
00:44:43
just and that's what I mean we're making big leaps here that's and that's what I'm I'm getting at that that it's these
00:44:50
are these are leaps that are being made to put someone behind bars for the rest of their it's not there's no question
00:44:58
about it it's the rest of his life it's life without the possibility of parole and then I could see somebody's argument
00:45:04
going well look he lied okay but we don't have to make this giant leap of why why would a 15-year-old lie because
00:45:13
they were scared because they're immature because they don't know how to handle these things that's not that big
00:45:20
of a leap to to or that big of a excuse of why he lied but like these other things like like we talked about before
00:45:31
the taxi cab why was it parked there where were your keys to explain those things away you
00:45:39
have to make bigger leaps mhm and um and I I also don't think he passes the eye test for me I don't think Eddie
00:45:50
passes the eye test I don't see this a coldblooded killer I see a kid that um seems very
00:46:03
Meek was the word I'd use I mean he really looks like a big version of Ralphie from the Christmas story well
00:46:12
what we do end up with Captain is I believe it was in 2014 that the state of Massachusetts they
00:46:19
overturned that what might be a flawed idea and I think that it is of of trying 14y olds and 15y olds and then
00:46:30
sentencing them to life without the possibility of parole they overt that there they they will not be convicting
00:46:37
juveniles of life without the possibility of parole now for Eddie to apply for parole
00:46:46
he has to be willing to show remorse and fess up to what he has been convicted of
00:46:53
this is the the kind of stuff that drives me insan insane it drives me absolutely insane because that's we're
00:47:01
supposed to be adults here but that's the circle that's the vicious circle of it is that you for for one to be
00:47:08
rehabilitated for a horrible act and a horrible time in their life to be rehabilitated from that and from that
00:47:15
person you then must be willing to accept what you did and show that you want forgiveness and that you are
00:47:24
remorseful for what you did and that you are a different person now than when you
00:47:30
were placed into the system back then the problem with that is it only works out you only need to be
00:47:37
rehabilitated if you were in fact a bad guy back then if you were wrongfully convicted then you weren't a bad guy
00:47:45
back then right but that's why this nation and this world feels like it's on fire lately because people just can't be
00:47:53
adults about things Okay so we have a system that is created by man we know that there's some flaws to the system
00:48:01
right we also know that there's innocent people that are convicted of crimes so if we know all that there are
00:48:11
going to be times where somebody can get paroled we should allow the parole hearing to happen even if the guy went
00:48:21
on trial claimed he was innocent was victed claims he's innocent when when the parole comes up still
00:48:30
claims that he's innocent let him go in front of the the PE board and let the parole board
00:48:37
decide because to me if I'm going to has the guy ever admitted that he did it no
00:48:42
he's always claimed that he's innocent again like you were saying how do you have to be rehabilitated I if you never
00:48:50
admit that you did the crime clear to be clear the parole board is the one that does decide that um um but again it's
00:48:58
it's it's the way that it's that it's he doesn't even but he doesn't even get to
00:49:01
go in front of the pro board until he admits that he did this that doesn't make any sense to me like that shouldn't
00:49:08
make much sense to any adult what we do have though too is we do have the Innocence Project has taken at least a
00:49:17
review of Eddie's case which I don't know if through the appeals process or what will happen here
00:49:27
again I'm not saying with 100% certainty that this kid didn't do it I'm just saying it looks to me I think it's very
00:49:35
confusing case and I think there's just missteps and there's I really don't think there's enough
00:49:42
evidence um and again it goes back to did they lock on to him to long I whatever we're going to
00:49:51
figure out the terminology I think they they latched on him very quickly like they should have
00:49:58
because he's half a mile away from the crime scene and there's physical EV evidence putting him there knife wounds
00:50:04
and all by the way you got some blood on your shin didn't clean that up so there's some reason to be looking
00:50:11
towards him but you always have to then you know go back to the drawing board try to prove yourself wrong you know if
00:50:19
you think he's 100% guilty then try to prove that he's innocent and then look look at you know don't don't let any
00:50:26
Rock go unturned because this this is a 15-year-old boy's life at stake which you know I think we can do
00:50:39
[Music] better a little recommended listening for you if you need to get caught up on
00:50:49
our old episodes download the Stitcher app it's free and if you want to check out our other show called off the Record
00:50:56
we do a lot of case updates and you can find that on Stitcher premium do we have
00:51:01
any recommended reading this week this week we are recommending the politics of murder the power and ambition behind the
00:51:09
alter boy murder case by Margo Nash this is a fantastic read and it really details the trial and Court proceedings
00:51:17
in the Eddie O'Brien and Janet Downing case that's the politics of Murder By Margot Nash you can find that title and
00:51:24
others on our website True Crime garage click on the recommended page and until next week be good be kind and don't
00:51:31
[Music] listen [Applause] you can live out your Master Chef dreams when you find a professional on Angie to
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