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[Music] thank you [Music] foreign [Music] garage wherever you are whatever you are
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doing thanks for listening I'm your host Nick and with me as always is a man that
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is sick of hearing people complain about their poodles and pills he is the captain thank you thank you thank you
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it's good to be seen and it's good to see you thanks for listening and thanks for telling a friend
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[Music] tonight we are drinking double cross brewed and beautiful Bend Oregon garage
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grade 4 out of five bottle caps this is a Belgian strong dark ale I love a nice Belgian and we want to Cheers some of
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our friends for sending a little love and beer our way first up we have Julie in The Natty Cincinnati Ohio and also in
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Cincy we have Kate a big shout out to Jennifer in Las Vegas Nevada we also have Jennifer and Glasgow Scotland a big
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shout out to Stephanie from Williamsport Ohio and last but not least Captain we have Shawna in Nashville who says we put
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the fun in dysfunctional or Shayna so thanks everybody for filling up the fridge for this week's
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show if you want to help us out with next week's show go to truecrime garage.com and click on the Donate
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garage all right friends that's enough of the business gather around grab a share grab a beer let's talk some true
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crime [Music] yesterday Captain we talked about the murder of Michael Frankie who was killed
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January 1989 in front of the headquarters for the Oregon State Prison System where he
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worked for the Department of Corrections and we had an individual this is a known
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criminal Frank Gable who would later be convicted of that now remember they were
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allowed to seek the death penalty in this case however they opted for life in prison without the possibility of parole
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and what that tells me is maybe where the jury couldn't find it Beyond you know that that it was beyond
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A Reasonable Doubt there was must have been some hint of Doubt right to not kill the guy to not sentence him to
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death uh for this murder now I want to touch upon the trial because what we would learn after the
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trial is that the prosecution relied on a handful of witnesses to convict Frank Gable however
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what we didn't know was that when these individuals were being questioned by police these individuals their stories
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changed repeatedly and the prosecution did not allow that to come out in court they did not yeah
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why would they right they did not divulge the aspects of their different stories in court so
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to kind of make it nice and clean and kind of give an example of what would be different from what ended up convicting
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this guy is that these stories they say for example three of the witnesses who testified against Gable had earlier told
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police that other people including Frank Gable had talked of killing Michael Frankie in the months
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before the quote-unquote random car burglary so that would tell a whole different
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story there then we have wait I'm confused they talked about them killing no Frankie no no what they told
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police during the course of being questioned by the police is that other people that there were other people not
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named in this statement but also uh Frank Gable who was later convicted that he and other people had talked about
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killing Michael Frankie months before he was actually killed months before the supposed random car burglary that the
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prosecutions theory was a random car burglary led to the death of Michael Frankie to be clear you're stating that
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these individuals along with Frank is saying we're going to kill him they talked about they're going to kill
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him right so these people that testified are stating that we saw premeditated it's not has nothing to do with breaking
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into a car we had we heard other people including Frank Gable claim that they someone was going to kill Michael
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Frankie months before it actually happened again and like I stated yesterday I thought the motive for Frank
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gamble to break into a car didn't make a lot of sense to me okay um so then we have we we do have the
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people that did testify at court um there's going to be doubts about their testimony because later they're
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going to recant their testimony so we have Jody swearing she later recanted her testimony instead
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claiming that another drug dealer Timothy natividad was the murderer and then we have Cappy AKA shorty Hardin
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and an affidavit David executed in Iowa Hardin now swears quote I did not see Frank Gable stab Michael Frankie
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then we have Dan Walsh and a new affidavit he says his statement wasn't true as did Kevin
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Walker then we have Michael Kearns later stated that he lied when he testified against Frank Gable he said that he was
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seeking revenge against Gable for being a known prison informant then we have Janine Vera who was Gable's wife
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and a new affidavit Vera reverses course she said phone records refreshed her memory that Frank Gable an associate of
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his had called their apartment roughly 90 minutes before the murder of Michael Frankie she said that Frank Gable stayed
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home and talked to the man and was home until an hour or two after Michael Frankie was stabbed and I guess that
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they're basing this time of when they believe Michael Frankie was stabbed off of so-called eyewitness statements okay
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so that gives him an alibi possibly yeah but this is the same woman that says the
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complete opposite yeah when it was when it was actually in court so here's the problem
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I don't know what to believe out of any of these characters and like you said before the circumstantial evidence in
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this case wasn't much it wasn't like a mountain of evidence here's the other problem remember that
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we we said that there was no physical evidence presented against Frank Gable at the
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trial right there was also never a murder weapon that was located and presented at the trial
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then we have there was one presented but it was one that the cops bought well yeah they weren't claiming that was the
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murder weapon they were claiming this to be of the same uh model as what we believe killed Michael Frankie then we
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have art Barger he's an ex-fbi agent who led a Department of Corrections corruption probe
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agent Barger criticized the separate state police murder investigation of Michael Frankie in a July 1990 interview
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Barger who has since passed away considered it an open question whether Frankie's death was engineered by a drug
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ring conspiracy referring to evidence that Frankie may have been carrying evidence of prison corruption in a
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briefcase adding quote knowing whether or not Michael Frankie was carrying a briefcase when he was murdered is so
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essential to the investigation said Barger quote that I cannot believe the state
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police did not establish that fact one way or another at the outset okay so let's think about what this individual's
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saying he's saying that at no point in the investigation did anyone prove whether Michael Frankie was carrying his
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briefcase that day or not there's rumors because he just got out of meeting at 6
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30 that he actually had these files with him and then the other rumor was that after the murder within hours these
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files were shredded well files from his office were rumored to have been shredded so the thing here is what he's
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pointing out is the items that we do not have that Michael Frankie would have had
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um at some point whether it be in his office in his car on his person that are missing uh or his briefcase and his
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computer all right his laptop computer right okay so these items are missing the problem with that statement is well
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why are they missing if the police and the investigators could not establish that he had those items with him at the
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time that he was attacked that changes things a lot because of two things we have an issue where he could have been
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just randomly attacked yeah that somebody broke into his car for some reason these two encountered each other
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in the parking lot and Michael Frankie was stabbed oh and then somebody within his own office goes oh he's missing oh
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uh or he was found dead outside now is a good time for me to get rid of his briefcase and his laptop computer right
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and it had nothing to do with the attack outside then there's the other situation
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which is the reverse that the attacker may have attacked him with the purpose of not only killing him but taking that
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briefcase taking that laptop computer with them right and then no evidence of the laptop or the briefcase is kind of
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evidence of that correct so we have this we have this ex-fbi agent who brings up
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a very good question it's essential to the investigation to know whether he had a briefcase or the laptop with them at
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the time he was killed and they never established that they never cleared that up and that is just murky Waters right
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from the get-go and then we also have doubters that that talked about more a little bit more about Frank Gable
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okay so here's the thought that we need to keep in mind what is being presented as
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in this case are two simple things one either Frank Gable did not kill Michael Frankie or there's a chance that
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Frank Gable did kill Michael Frankie but it was also a part of a larger conspiracy right that maybe somebody
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paid him to kill right Frankie so you could have a conspiracy where people conspired to kill Michael Frankie and
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they hired somebody else or carried it out themselves or they hired Frank Gable to do it for them well I'm thinking
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about this way we know that Frank Gable is quote unquote drug dealer and so if there's this drug running conspiracy and
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he's part of it then the law anybody that's in law enforcement is going to go hey well look you're the you're the Fall
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Guy so if you don't take care of this you're the Fall Guy well he became the full guy either way
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and also to be clear though too the the problem with this case is where does the conspiracy stem from does
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it stem from somebody involved in the Oregon Department of Corrections that wants to cover some things up or a
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higher ranking government official that wants to cover up some misdealings or do
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you simply just have organized crime you simply just have criminals who work together to conspire to kill Michael
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Frankie right so people that point toward uh or question Gable's guilt suggests these couple of items they they
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question why would Frank Gable break into a car parked in a well-lit patrolled lot and he did not take the
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car he did not take Frankie's wallet or his watch and then some question this I found this
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statement to be interesting one prison guard says quote Gable couldn't fight his way out of a paper bag
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could he have overpowered Frankie who was physically fit six foot three inches tall 220 to 230 pounds
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right and then was one hell of a kicker there you go then we have the polygraph issues that were presented at Frank
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Gable's appeal hearing this contends original incriminating testimony came from police tactics that included the
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Relentless abuse of polygraph tests we have an individual David Raskin a polygraph expert who examined records in
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the Gable case and he said in an affidavit filed on Gable's behalf that Witnesses were quote intensely
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interrogated pressured coerced and frightened by the angry and sometimes violent behavior of the interrogators he
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said he found serious misconduct in how police polygraph examiners tested those who subsequently pointed the finger at
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gable stating quote unethical and flawed polygraph testing procedures combined with improper interrogations appear to
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have provided the means to shape witness statements in order to obtain false testimony
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he said Witnesses were polygraphed repeatedly sometimes on the same day Jody Swearingen was given 23 polygraph
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tests in 12 sessions Jesus 23 polygraph tests Witness we're going to make you take that again
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witness Walsh said in his affidavit that police quote yelled at me because the polygraph results showed I was lying he
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says he quote eventually I told the police what I thought they wanted me to say that Mr Gable confessed to me the
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details of the murder Walsh said Mr Gable never confessed to me end quote all right Captain here's where we need
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to get into some of the different conspiracy theories out there regarding this murder
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of Michael Frankie because there's several different thoughts out there that have been presented over the years
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well first of all everybody put on your 10 hats real quick your little foil hats
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run into conspiracy land right right um well the first obviously being the hit um the initial investigation of
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Frankie's death centered on Parolees in the area and prisoners of the state in the State Penitentiary who may have held
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a grudge of some sort against Michael Frankie then about a month after the murder rumors and reports began to
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surface about corruption within the Oregon Department of Corrections and the agency's possible link to Frankie's
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murder then in September of 1989 Oregon governor Goldschmidt announced he had appointed retired Judge John C Warden to
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head an independent investigation of the Department of Corrections warden's investigation lasted three months his
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findings according to the final report confirmed the existence of quote significant illegal activities or other
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wrongdoings within the department of corrections but he found no reasonable link between those activities and
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Michael Frankie's death former State Treasurer Jim Hill does not accept the official verdict okay do you
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accept that do I accept what John C Warden says I mean I have a real hard time with the
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idea or the notion that you're going to have this guy come in and one of the things he's supposed to do is to clean
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up the system and that you find corruption within that system and the person that was brought in to find that
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corruption and to stop that corruption is then murdered I find that to to have this notion that that corruption had
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nothing to do with this individual is is that's a weird statement to me it's tough to tough to believe it's hard
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pills to swallow my friend and I don't know what they're basing that off of um but you know they did do an extensive
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investigation now we do have former State Treasurer Jim Hill as I said does not accept that official verdict uh
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believing either that Gable is altogether innocent of the crime or that he or another perpetrator was a hired
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Hitman rather than a chance Carr burglar so this leads us to what are the other possibilities there are several theories
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as to who may have been the killer or Killers or who may have ordered a hit on Michael Frankie the first that we need
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to talk about is an individual that we named earlier and that is Timothy natividad so Timothy AKA rooster
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natividad was a drug dealer who himself was murdered two weeks after Michael Frankie was murdered the court filing
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said that Greg Johnson an associate of natividads told a defense investigator that he spent time with natividad around
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the Time Michael Frankie was killed according to the filing Johnson said he dropped off natividad at the Dome
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building remember that's the building where Frankie worked on the evening of the murder and returned later and
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remembered natividad saying quote it's not my blood when he got into the car a few days later he went with natividad to
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get his payoff two men in a car possibly with Oregon government license plates pulled up and one of the men handed
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something to natividad which this gentleman would well gentlemen Johnson would later in fact figure out was
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twenty thousand dollars in cash Johnson says that he recognized the two men as State Prison officials this is what he
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said in a court filing so this is official documents that he put these statements into now there are theories
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as to who may have been behind the killing and the focus is on two men high in the corrections hierarchy one
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individual who has been named is Hoyt cup the the former Warden of the Oregon State penitentiary in 2007 a convicted
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felon gave a series of interviews to a local newspaper in which he claimed that he witnessed cup and another unnamed
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Corrections official pay natividad twenty thousand dollars that natividad later informed him it was a payment for
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killing Frankie cup died of cancer in 1990. another individual who has been named is Scott McAllister he was the
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Assistant Attorney General for the state of Oregon until he resigned shortly before Michael Frankie's death and no
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relation to Kevin McAllister subsequently became Inspector General of the Utah Corrections Department and X
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girlfriend of McAlister's told the Portland Tribune that McAllister had been in possession of internal police
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documents concerning the murder that he no longer had any official reason to possess and that she had overheard
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McAllister describe the killing as a botched hit listen to this this is from a sworn
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statement made in 1990 by a former secretary and girlfriend of Scott McAllister the woman's name is Linda Parker in her
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statement Parker says that in July of 1989 she was with McAllister at a party in Utah where she worked for him in his
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new job Inspector General for the Utah Department of Corrections at the party McAllister was joined by
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Oregon friends who had followed him to work in the Utah prison system Parker claims McAllister was trash talking
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Michael Frankie and saying the people who had killed him were supposed to make it look like a suicide Parker said quote
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Scott was clearly angry over the job being [ __ ] up as he put it said Parker adding that she believed McAllister knew
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quote inside information about what happened in the Frankie murder should I keep going with this one
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Captain because there's some stuff here between yeah these two ex-lovers that that that's weird right okay so in an
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interview McAllister called Parker a quote documented liar and said there is no truth to her statement
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adding the whole suggestion is absurd he said Michael Frankie was a friend of mine
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Parker's ex-husband this is Jim dreitzler also questioned Parker's credibility citing mental issues Parker
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had attempted suicide in late 1989 and was hospitalized and diagnosed with major depression
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Parker's statement that has nothing to do with whether or not you're telling the truth that's correct Parker's
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statement makes other allegations about McAllister that have been substantiated Elsewhere for instance Parker accused
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McAllister of using his position to pressure her into group sex and having her he was giving her Kitty porn videos
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to quote train her the two videotapes she turned over were traced by law enforcement to McAllister causing him to
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be charged with a child pornography felony charge ultimately he pled guilty to a misdemeanor in addition a second
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Utah Corrections employee came forward saying McAllister also tried to pressure her into group sex causing McAllister to
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be forced out of his Utah job Okay so we have an ex-girlfriend of this McAllister who's an ex-official in the
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Oregon State uh hierarchy right however we do need to keep in mind McAllister did resign from that position before
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Frankie was murdered I cannot Trace back or figure out when McAllister moved from
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Oregon to Utah but that doesn't mean that he couldn't have had a hand in the conspiracy to kill this guy even after
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the fact yeah but all you have to do is follow the kitty porn and you can figure
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that out so then we have Wayne home who was later killed by a sheriff's deputy during a reverse sting drug operation
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Holm was a former inmate and the Oregon correction system during the early 1980s
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he assisted numerous other inmates with parole hearing presentations and had known Scott McAllister because
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McAllister represented the parole and probation board during those hearings all home had offered the theory that the
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primary motivation for Michael Frankie's murder was that Frankie discovered a plot by Scott McAllister to sell paroles
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to inmates [Music] [Music] cheers mates cheers to you captain and make sure you check out our other show off the
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record on Stitcher premium that's right uh let's talk about the man in the pinstripe suit Theory also known as the
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abduction Theory the abduction theory is that Michael Frankie was at some point later brought back to the scene and
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perhaps he was going to his office to find whatever paperwork or computer files uh may have been in his office
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once there he gets out of the car perhaps he sees his only chance for getting away tries to make a break for
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it and perhaps receives one or more of his wounds at that time goes to the north porch where he is finished off now
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much speculation has centered on a mysterious man in a pinstriped suit an unknown individual who was spotted by a
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Corrections employee inside the corrections Dome building 90 minutes after closing time the individual has
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never been identified another Dome building employee who worked as a parole board clerk has stated the man in the
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pinstriped suit also matches the description she gave to police as the man who arrived at the Dome building the
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day of the murder to repair the copy machine late in the afternoon this individual was granted access to remain
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in the building after hours to complete the repairs the repairs were never completed the machine was left in pieces
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and neither the man in the pinstripe suit or Dennis plant the man who later testified that he was the copy machine
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repairman but whom the parole board clerk States was not the man who worked on The copier that day returned to
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complete the repairs nor was any record of the service call found in The copier repair log after the murder whether or
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not the individual has any relation to the killing is unknown the individual does not resemble that of Frank Gable
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some believe that Michael was the victim of a premeditated murder carried out by
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several men and possibly instigated by high-ranking officials fearful of being named in the investigation according to
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reporter Stephen Jackson an eyewitness at the scene backs up this Theory stating that at 10 15 or 10 20 on
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January 17th a young man riding in a car looked over where the scene of the crime
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was and saw five to six men running toward a Volkswagen van if Michael Frankie had been abducted and
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then brought back to the building where he was killed this would fit in with the
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abduction Theory this Theory suggests that on the night of his death Michael unlocked his his own car and deactivated
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the alarm at the same time the men approached him Michael did not keep regular office hours except for Tuesday
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staff meetings so it appeared the attackers were familiar with his schedule that night several people reported
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seeing a man with a pinstripe suit and a dark complexion lurking in the corrections building after hours a
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composite drawing based on a witness description was made and this Theory also makes sense too because we don't
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see Frankie we lose track of Frankie between 6 30 and 12 30. yeah we have almost six hours where he's unaccounted
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for now we can't say for certain that the area in which he was later found dead was searched before 12 30 but what
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we can say is people were looking for him and did not discover him until that time now here's a theory that I really
00:29:10
like and I'm not saying that I favor this one over the others but the reason why I like it is because it kind of ties
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some of the other thoughts and theories together you know you say well how can you have these theories that don't seem
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to have anything to do with one another this one is interesting and this is the theory of Kevin Frankie Kevin is Michael
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Frankie's younger brother and he assisted with that movie uh without evidence so his theory goes something like this
00:29:40
that he depicts Scott McAllister who we already talked about as a corrupt bureaucrat who was cozy with inmates and
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benefited from some kind of Black Market prison trade and Michael Frankie threatened to Halt Scott McAllister's
00:29:56
dealings so then McAllister turned to underworld Associates including Timothy natividad the murder plot Frankie
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maintains called for natividad and two other men to force Michael Frankie into his car and drive off kill him somewhere
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else and make it look like a suicide but something went wrong and Frankie fought
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back and natividad ended up killing him there on the scene or at least stabbing him there on the scene
00:30:26
I like that theory because it actually ties like three of the theories together it might be why that there's rumors of
00:30:33
theory a being Right theory B being right or Theory C being right so within that one we have Scott McAllister who is
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thought to be corrupt and be up to no good who who does already make deals with known criminals and inmates
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then turning to Timothy natividad who's a known criminal and other individuals to get rid of Michael Frankie now while
00:30:58
we are on the subject of Kevin Frankie Michael Frankie's younger brother let's get into this a little bit because
00:31:05
you know how we often find these almost unbelievable smaller stories inside some
00:31:11
of these cases well here's a weird one so we have Kevin Frankie but we have Kevin Frankie's wife his
00:31:20
wife later is Elizabeth who was formerly Elizabeth goodlove who at one time at the actually at the time of Michael
00:31:29
Frankie's murder was Timothy natividad's girlfriend Elizabeth God loves shot and killed
00:31:36
Timothy natividad two weeks after Michael Frankie's death a jury acquitted her that spring after she claimed
00:31:44
natividad had been abusing her for years and had held a gun to her head the day that she killed him Elizabeth godlove
00:31:53
and Kevin Frankie married in 1994. so is it possible that during her trial that he follows her trial they might have
00:32:01
even met at the courthouse yeah I I don't because because they thought that you know his death might have something
00:32:09
to do with his brother's death well let's look at her story just a little bit more uh in detail so in August of
00:32:16
1990 Elizabeth godlove told Frank Gable's defense team that Timothy natividad came home in a panic during
00:32:25
the early morning hours quote on or about the night of Michael Frankie's murder she noticed a wound on his leg
00:32:34
leg and a gash on his head then a day or two later Timothy natividad told her he'd killed a man but when God love
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relayed the story to the police in September of 1990 she said she couldn't be certain the night natividad arrived
00:32:51
home with the wounds was the same night that Michael Frankie was stabbed police ran down leads on Timothy natividad
00:32:59
testing his knives and clothing but they found no link to the murder so then you could take it as possible
00:33:07
one or another motive for Timothy natividad to kill Michael Frankie either he was involved in a conspiracy to get
00:33:15
rid of him and he was hired as remember we have that other individual that said he was with natividad for portions of
00:33:23
the night that Michael Frankie was killed and picked him up at the scene and he had blood on him or did natividad
00:33:30
simply was he part of the criminal element that was peddling drugs in and out of the prison system right
00:33:39
and that he needed to off the guy that was going to that stumbled upon how the workings of that were taking place and
00:33:46
intended to shut it down right but that's all connected to higher individuals in the prison system anyways
00:33:53
yes very possibly but not 100 that it has to be well I just think it could be uh
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it could be a combination of a lot of these things and it seems like there's a lot of money to go around and probably a
00:34:08
lot of greed well there's definitely corruption and here's the reason why when when you and I spoke earlier about
00:34:15
um the judge's ruling stating that hey I found corruption within the prison system but I found no link between that
00:34:21
and the murder of Michael Frankie and you said hey I disagree with that statement because if there was
00:34:27
corruption this guy was sent to find it it's very likely that that led to his murder while on top of that we have
00:34:34
files of his missing I mean that's again evidence of that possibly found the corruption and now we don't have
00:34:42
evidence of that those are rumors though that's what we got to be clear of rumors
00:34:46
that files of his were missing well right but we know that his computer is missing correct we do know that so if
00:34:53
somebody's saying hey Frankie's laptop is missing possibly there's files missing and then on top of that there I
00:35:01
mean there was some activity in his office right of of things going missing so well no the the items in his office
00:35:08
would just simply be rumor unless somebody could prove that his briefcase in laptop were in his office at the time
00:35:16
that he was killed elsewhere and what I mean by that is look there's rumor that he stumbled upon
00:35:23
corruption and the thought is that well he would have had proof of such and if he did then they might have been in
00:35:29
files or in his briefcase or in on his laptop right and therefore if it was a conspiracy to uh by the the corrupted to
00:35:39
shut this man down that they would have wanted to steal those files steal that laptop steal that briefcase what I'm
00:35:45
getting at is I agree with you I I think it's fair to make that leap if there is
00:35:51
corruption if you do find corruption to think that it could have led to Michael Frankie's murder but where I can't say
00:35:58
that for certain with 100 certainty is this I personally believe that there is some level of corruption in every
00:36:06
State's prison system within the United States Ah that's a scary thought don't even get me started on it well I mean
00:36:12
there just is I mean I I would be I would be shocked if anybody working in any of those States Corrections uh
00:36:22
systems if anybody would come forward and say Nick you're absolutely wrong there is zero corruption at all in our
00:36:28
prison system here in the state of Kentucky in Ohio in Michigan New York California Texas whatever and what do
00:36:35
you think it's like you know when when you now have privately owned prisons so well it but I want to be couldn't
00:36:42
just get worse I want to be clear here I'm not trying to point out that I think that every State's prison system is
00:36:48
corrupt from the top to bottom corruption can be as something as simple as a guard selling cigarettes to inmates
00:36:58
I mean that's that's the absolute truth of it so what I'm saying is I can see how they could find certain levels of
00:37:07
corruption in their prison system but also believe that it did not lead to his murder you see what I'm saying oh I see
00:37:14
him so the thing too regarding the files though those files are only rumored to have
00:37:22
been destroyed and what I mean by that is let's say Frankie actually didn't discover any
00:37:28
corruption then he would have those files would never have existed right the other thing too is the briefcase in the
00:37:35
laptop if they were on his person when he was stabbed maybe it was just taken by whoever
00:37:42
stabbed him and that person wasn't there to stab him because they were hired to kill him
00:37:49
um so or or the opposite though too I mean there could have just been rumors again we have these rumors about these
00:37:55
files if these rumors about this laptop so if you do have high levels of corruption they go hey we gotta take
00:38:02
down this guy Frankie well what if they take him out and then they go he didn't have anything on us
00:38:09
do I have anything on our corruption yet or didn't have detail for you know reports
00:38:16
but then there was a confession um and this was by a guy named John Krauss he's a man from Salem who was on
00:38:26
Parole for a robbery he was on Parole at the time of Michael Frankie's murder he
00:38:31
later repeatedly confessed to murdering Michael Frankie telling numerous Law Enforcement Officers as well as his own
00:38:39
mother brother and girlfriend that he stabbed Michael Frankie when Michael caught him burglarizing his car on
00:38:47
January 17 1989. so the the other Frank was just a patsy so Frank Gable yeah the
00:38:55
convicted murderer of Michael Frankie his defense team said that John krause's confession was consistent with the crime
00:39:03
scene and the autopsy evidence corroborated by eyewitness testimony and considered truthful by an FBI
00:39:10
polygrapher who was flown in from out of state to test him so Krauss called it quote just a freak
00:39:18
accident saying he got into Frankie's car and Frankie found him in it and asked him what he was doing he says I
00:39:26
tried to hit him where I could knock him out the next thing I know I stabbed the
00:39:32
guy I stabbed him in the heart in the arm and he says I didn't intend to kill the guy The Krauss described how Frankie
00:39:40
confronted him offering a physical description of Frankie who in the autopsy was described as six foot three
00:39:46
weighing between 220 to 230 pounds Krauss said that Frankie punched him with significant
00:39:55
force and that is when Krauss stabbed Frankie now there of course are doubts about this confession we have attorney
00:40:02
Nicholas kalstrom from the Oregon Department of Justice countered that crouse's confession came after he
00:40:09
provided police with at least four differing accounts of what had occurred he gave very descriptions of the
00:40:17
clothing he wore at the scene as well as the route he took to flee the area colstrom suggested that during the
00:40:25
interviews Krauss had with police that the investigators may have fed him information along the way the state
00:40:32
could never corroborate krause's account of what occurred according to this colstrom individual you're right right
00:40:39
but you can you can feed him all the information you want you can feed him all the evidence you want all the crime
00:40:45
scene information you want now you got to pass a polygraph and that's not to say that they can't pay
00:40:51
that guy off or whatever but you still gotta pass a polygraph well what's interesting here though is that we have
00:40:59
assistant Federal public defender uh for Frank Gable who later called it a troubling double standard stating if the
00:41:09
state is now arguing that John krause's confession may have been contaminated by
00:41:14
investigators questions or media accounts of what occurred but hasn't applied that same standard to other key
00:41:21
Witnesses who have since recanted their earlier statements that place Gable at the scene of the crime
00:41:28
not other key Witnesses every key witness right you know come on yeah and I think that's very interesting here
00:41:36
right so we have this guy who confesses and they say nope the the police un you know unintentionally altered this guy's
00:41:45
statement Well here here's the thing is I don't really give a [ __ ] that he is confessing to the cops right it's more
00:41:53
the fact that one you're passing a polygraph but two you're confessing to your mother
00:41:58
and your brother and your family it sounds like just about anybody that was willing to listen he was confessing too
00:42:04
right but what I what I mean by that is I'm going to put more weight into that why why are you why would you
00:42:11
add heartache to your mother for a lie mom I did this I want to come clean I want you know and that's what it exactly
00:42:20
sounds like doesn't it Captain it sounds like this individual that that kind of panicked in the freak moment if we
00:42:26
believe a story he got punched by this large man and he kind of would punch you yeah that's what everybody says about
00:42:33
Michael Frankie this is the kind of dude he didn't back down from just about anything well and Frankie just didn't
00:42:39
know that he was bringing his fisticuffs to a knife fight right and it sounds like if John Krause is telling the truth
00:42:48
that his intentions weren't to kill Frankie it sounds like oh he hit me real hard I can't throw blow I can't trade
00:42:56
blows with this guy right I'm gonna I'm just gonna have to get him real quick and go in in me and maybe he just
00:43:04
intended to get him in the arm or in the hand or something like that and and unfortunately got him directly in the
00:43:10
heart Juana far as Frank Gable is concerned it it seems like all these other theories and then
00:43:19
plus this confession which basically is what they're claiming Frank Gable did they're basically saying well but you're
00:43:28
just changing the characters with his confession and again by the way passes a polygraph and the guy sits in jail well
00:43:36
and you wonder too if there's no physical evidence to convict Frank Gable then why maybe there isn't any physical
00:43:44
evidence because he's not your guy and like you said the the story that John Krauss lays out for you
00:43:51
is the same theory that the prosecutors put forth at trial right it's just the difference is you have one guy who's
00:43:59
saying this is what I did I didn't I did exactly what the prosecution said and my
00:44:04
name is John Krause and then you have another guy who's saying man I'm completely innocent don't stop looking
00:44:09
for the killer because he's actually out there and my name is Frank Gable so we should mention the Innocence
00:44:16
Project has taken on Frank Gable's case uh and looked at this thing several times and attempts to get him please you
00:44:24
know or not please appeals granted for his conviction so you know us presenting these conspiracy theories
00:44:32
um it's not a lot of ookie kooky dookie you know it's it's um say what people smarter than us have
00:44:39
looked at Frank Gable's case and questioned his guilt and question the verdict of such yeah
00:44:46
that's right that means it it means it's poopy it means it's ookie poopy doopy means it's poopy so the
00:44:57
problem with this case captain and I think it's extremely obvious to everyone is that this case is complicated I mean
00:45:05
we have Michael Frankie who is brought into end corruption in the Oregon prison system Michael Frankie discovers or may
00:45:14
have discovered deep corruption very high up in the prison system chain of command
00:45:19
and then he's murdered prior to the release of the details of his findings right
00:45:24
his briefcase and possibly other paperwork disappear and are never found now the interesting thing to me though
00:45:32
is that we three months later three months after the murder is when John Krauss confesses to his family that he
00:45:41
killed Michael Frankie in a botched robbery then we have police who later ignore this confession
00:45:48
the investigation takes 15 months and they arrest Frank Gable no physical evidence ever links Gable to the crime
00:45:55
Gables sentenced but very few people believe he is in fact guilty all of the people who testified against
00:46:03
cable recanted their testimony so I ask you captain as we take a look at these theories that
00:46:11
we've discussed today how do you feel on some certain things how do you feel about Frank Gable do you
00:46:18
think that he's guilty or make him take a lie detector do you think that if I was going to represent him as the
00:46:25
innocent project is putting time and effort into them and make him take a lie detector if he can pass that then okay
00:46:32
we can start there do you think that there was a hit taken out on Michael Frankie no I mean I think
00:46:39
they're I don't know I mean it's like I said the three months after the murder you have somebody confessing you have
00:46:46
somebody confessing to their family the police don't take that serious because they got their guy
00:46:51
again their the state's case and what the evidence kind of shows us is that it's more likely a botch robbery and
00:47:01
then krause's story lines up so why wouldn't you believe him yeah especially it passes the test that does not mean
00:47:10
there wasn't corruption there doesn't that doesn't mean that Frankie wasn't going to find it and he might have and
00:47:16
and and probably his murder scared a lot of people to death oh yeah yeah you're you're probably
00:47:25
right even if the murderer didn't know about Michael Frankie's job or who Michael Frankie was or what he could
00:47:31
have stumbled upon or found what he was looking for I guess we should say so I'm with you
00:47:39
um as far as Frank Gable goes I think unfortunately it's it's not very probable that he was the Killer and just
00:47:47
because of the zero evidence Factor because of all of the witnesses recanting their stories
00:47:54
um then we also have the added element of the interrogation process and the polygraph process for all of those most
00:48:03
of those Witnesses seems to be not normal irregular right coerced the difficult thing is that
00:48:12
you know Frankie was high up in the prison system and so that put pressure on the police to solve it
00:48:21
but also again with the corruption if there's higher levels of corruption those people are connected to people on
00:48:29
the law enforcement and they're going to solve this thing get this closed get the
00:48:34
heat off of us it was a robbery that's it right so I think partly because of the corruption is why
00:48:43
we have this innocent man behind bars as far as the hit Theory goes or the different hit
00:48:51
theories that are out there I also question this thought because here my thought is usually this
00:48:57
when there is a hit put out and when the hit is carried out usually the target is is killed and the
00:49:07
offender knows that the target is dead when they leave the area and what I mean by that is most of the evidence and most
00:49:15
of what the medical examiner as well as other investigators in this case have stated as they believe that Michael
00:49:23
Franke was attacked near his vehicle and then was able to to flee right and attempt to get help where he would have
00:49:31
survived and been able to tell us what happened to him who attacked him and that doesn't work out very well for
00:49:39
a hit doesn't sound like a hit and then also the you know the rumors were that we need to make it look like a suicide
00:49:45
if that's the case the hit didn't even try to make it look like a suicide and then even when on the abduction Theory
00:49:53
same thing let's make it look like it's suicide you're going to tell me that you're going to take this person in a
00:49:59
van we're talking 6-3 225 pounds 235 pounds you're going to take him in a van with three guys
00:50:06
and then when you when you bring them back he's still gonna move around alive because the evidence seems like he moved
00:50:18
from his car to the second floor if that's the case then you you brought him back
00:50:24
somewhat alive right and that that makes no sense so I mean if you're going to abduct somebody for the purpose of
00:50:31
shutting them up for good you're going to shut them up for good the only thing that stops me from ruling out the
00:50:38
possibility of a hit 100 percent is the fact that we have the situation with Scott McAllister and Linda Parker where
00:50:47
she states that she overheard McAllister basically telling a bunch of guys that the it was a hit however the people that
00:50:55
were hired to carry it out really screwed it up you know unless this was a hit that was really screwed up yeah but
00:51:01
hear me out it is possible like I said there's possible that all these things are happening at the same time and you
00:51:07
have a hit that's going out but you don't know when that hit is going to happen right you don't know if it's that
00:51:13
day or whatever and so it could have simply been um talked about on these high level
00:51:20
people the high level people that are in the prison system working with the criminals saying hey you need to take
00:51:27
care of this these criminals are drug dealers or whatever they're not in the business of putting in hits and so
00:51:36
this this car break-in happens and then McAllister calls his guys hey what happened they go well he he got
00:51:45
away and they had nothing to do with it you see what I'm saying they're covering
00:51:51
their ass well the interesting thing is we have and I wow you just stumbled upon
00:51:56
something here Captain because we have Michael Frankie who's last seen alive about 6 30 p.m on the 17th the
00:52:04
newspapers on the 18th said Frankie McAllen or sorry Michael Frankie has been murdered
00:52:11
the newspapers the very next day say Michael Frankie was murdered right so guess what if you're somebody that
00:52:18
ordered that hit and then you make a phone call you go well I guess the deed is done
00:52:24
question mark right like I hired you to kill this guy and now I'm reading the newspaper and he's dead and the the
00:52:30
medical examiner saying it was 100 a homicide that's interesting could somebody have
00:52:37
paid Scott McAllister or some of his group paid Timothy natividad and a guy or two to kill Michael Frankie or a guy
00:52:47
and a girl and John Krauss for some reason shows up breaks into Michael Frankie's car on the 17th stabs him
00:52:54
accidentally unintentionally kills Michael Frankie and Timothy natividad says your deed was carried out my friend
00:53:03
thanks for the money I'll meet you here on Tuesday for the payoff okay [Music] cookie
00:53:26
dookie all right Captain how about a little recommended reading yes sir this week we are recommending love and greed
00:53:33
in the Heartland the Richmond Hill murders this is the story of an insurance fraud scheme gone fatally
00:53:40
wrong on an Autumn night in Richmond Hill what was meant to be a small fire mushroomed into a major explosion in the
00:53:48
largest homicide investigation in Indiana's history make sure you check out love and greed in the Heartland by
00:53:56
Robert snow and Russ McQuaid and you don't have to write that title down now you can simply go to our website
00:54:03
truecrimegarage.com and click on the recommended page and we have all of our books recommended there for you yeah
00:54:10
make sure you check out our store page as well we have a bunch of different shirts we also have a tumbler mug
00:54:15
Koozies all that stuff we ship them out every Friday and if you have any merchandise ideas that you'd like to see
00:54:23
in the store you can always email me at Captain True Crime garage.com until next
00:54:29
week everybody keep it real keep it clean be good be kind and don't let it [Music]
00:54:48
[Applause] [Music]