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[Music] % [Music] welcome to True Crime garage wherever you are whatever you are doing thanks
00:01:46
for listening I'm your host Nick and with me as always for The Showdown in Captain town he is the captain welcome
00:01:54
thank you thank you thank you it's good to be seeing and it's good to see you thanks for listening thanks for telling
00:01:58
my friend [Music] tonight we are drinking Scotty karate Scotch ale by darkh Horse Brewing in
00:02:09
Marshall Michigan garage grade four out of five bottle caps this is a big bold beer a silver Medal winner at the Great
00:02:18
American Beer Festival with an ABV of 99.75% so drink this one at home in your own garage and this week's beer was
00:02:26
brought to us by Steven in Jonesboro Arkansas and also in Arkansas on team Nick we have Elizabeth in fville and a
00:02:34
big shout out to Sierra in Pittsburgh Pennsylvania next we have Chris who says enjoy a beer we also have John who says
00:02:41
keep jibbing and we have our friend Olivia all from Parts Unknown and a big we like you J to Lauren in the UK and
00:02:48
last but not least a cheers to Kate and waterl Liverpool England waterl for everything true crime go to True Crim
00:02:56
garage.com and make sure you sign up on our mailing list that's enough of the business you're right it is everybody
00:03:03
gather around grab a chair grab a beer let's talk some true crime there are going to be
00:03:16
investigators working these crimes who say to me well you don't have all the information cuz you don't you're not
00:03:22
privy to all of our documents and that's true I I received you know several thousand pages of Foy documents but
00:03:31
there are probably a 100 thousand pages of documents you know who knows what they've got and they will say that to me
00:03:37
I say to them two things one it's impossible to refute the information that is in the book Because all that
00:03:48
information was obtained from the documents I didn't make it up there's no conjecture or in some instances where I
00:03:56
speculate I say that I'm speculating right information that is based on fact that I allege is based on fact that's in
00:04:06
the book all that information came from the documents so one no officer who previously or currently works this case
00:04:17
can say that anything in my book is falsified it's all true it's all based on the documents the only other thing
00:04:25
they can say is but you don't have all the information and so I say to you yeah that's the [ __ ] point so if you have
00:04:34
all the information why don't you [ __ ] tell me what you have and we'll work together and I'm not even talking
00:04:42
about me I'm talking in general about the family members of the victims and the other other people who have spent
00:04:49
decades working this case emotionally and I'm talking about the communities I'm talking about the the
00:04:57
Decades of children uh I'm talking about the generations of people raising their
00:05:02
kids in a certain way because because they were touched by these crimes it's important to recognize that serious
00:05:09
crimes don't end with the prosecution of a suspect I want to get into this for a
00:05:14
second the effects of those crimes linger in the atmosphere they linger in the lives of the loved ones of the
00:05:21
victims in the lives of the community for Generations man and so in this instance I was a member of that
00:05:29
community tens of thousands of others were members of that Community those children of
00:05:35
those tens of thousands are now a member of that community and the crimes linger
00:05:39
and linger and linger for decades for decades for decades and multiple Generations so if you tell me but you
00:05:48
don't have all the information then I say to you give me the information prove that I'm thinking about this wrong tell
00:05:57
me something that you know tell me where I'm wrong say something they won't say anything
00:06:07
because nobody's letting them because this case was not meant to be solved because this case this case is directly
00:06:16
tied to some of the people who are politically entrenched in that in that community and financially entrenched in
00:06:25
that community [Music] over the years Captain there have been many theories on who is the Oakland
00:06:45
County child killer and how has the perpetrator been able to evade capture for all of these years but before we get
00:06:53
into this too much I do want to point out that we did cover this case back in May of 2016 episode 28 if you have the
00:07:01
Stitcher app and if you don't have the app we go get it because all of our episodes are there I didn't want anyone
00:07:08
to think that we are skipping over anything in this case so if you're thinking that just know that on episode
00:07:15
28 we covered some different angles of each of these four murders and we also covered more of the Dr Danto stuff we
00:07:23
covered the Allen and Frank Theory and the man from the diner Theory and I even said at one point that I thought that
00:07:29
this could be the work of a man and woman team maybe a husband and wife the purpose of these two episodes this week
00:07:37
is to explore a much different Theory and a theory now that might be looking like it's more likely than some of the
00:07:45
others explored and Captain this is a theory that is quite similar to some of the thoughts that you had regarding the
00:07:53
missing person Johnny gosh so what we did here was yesterday's episode was kind of of a primer regarding the four
00:08:01
murders and today we will explore a theory not discussed on that show before getting to the suspects that could be
00:08:09
tied to this Theory let's go through the original profile of the perpetrator the
00:08:15
task force developed a profile of the offender based on descriptions given by Witnesses who saw Timothy King talking
00:08:23
to a man on the night that he was abducted the profile described a white male dark complexion age 25 to 35 with
00:08:32
shaggy hair and long sideburns because the person seemed to be able to gain the trust of children the task force
00:08:40
believed that the killer was possibly a police officer a doctor or a clergy man the profile describes the killer as
00:08:49
someone who was familiar with the area and probably lived alone possibly in a remote area since he was able to keep
00:08:55
the children for several days without friends family or neighbors knowing the interesting thing here Captain is we're
00:09:04
going to discuss the possibility of a perpetrator that was able to hold these kids captive for several days but the
00:09:12
possibility that friends did know what was going on and may have even been involved in the Abduction the Captivity
00:09:20
and murder of four children so Captain let's go ahead and introduce Jay Ruben Appleman the author of the new book The
00:09:28
killed jar Obsession descent and a hunt for Detroit's most notorious serial killer which will be released later this
00:09:37
week now he is the gentleman that you heard in our trailer earlier talking about hey I've put together a book on
00:09:44
this investigation based off of information that I was able to collect information that was contained in the
00:09:51
origal in the original investigation right so basically Jay rubin's theory is it's not one killer that it's a multiple
00:09:59
maybe a group of people and regarding his investigation into these crimes we wanted to ask him about some specifics
00:10:07
mainly evidence that has been left out of a lot of the media reports as well as possible eyewitness sightings of
00:10:15
vehicles that could have been involved and individuals that could have been involved in the perpetration of these
00:10:21
crimes so one of the big problems I think with this in investigation and you think so as well is when they actually
00:10:28
started going to the public saying we're looking for this type of individual they're also
00:10:35
saying that they're looking for Gremlin and we we know that there was another car that was seen in an earlier
00:10:42
abduction that they never mentioned so so they're basically saying we're looking for this car but there's this
00:10:50
other car that we saw too but we're not telling the public about that well one of the biggest talked about clues in
00:10:57
this case that has stood the test of time here and still is discussed to this day is that car is that blue Gremlin
00:11:06
however a 1971 lons was seen at the Jill Robinson murder scene right and I hold a
00:11:13
lot of weight to this eyewitness and the reason why is because this individual once owned that car well in a vehicle
00:11:20
left Clues as far as Tire imprints and bumper imprints at the maholic scene and a blue Gremlin with a white stripe was
00:11:29
seen at the possible abduction site of Tim King so at least two different cars but maybe three or four different cars
00:11:38
should have been discussed and yet the focus on the car was put on the blue Gremlin but the blue Gremlin which is
00:11:46
weird here Captain it was still in the parking lot after Tim was reported missing and the search was underway for
00:11:53
the Lost Boy it's making it almost seem like it's it's not connected or if it was connected it was left at the scene
00:12:01
for some reason it would have been more logical to research the lemons as the suspect vehicle there was a detailed
00:12:09
description of the Pontiac lemons from the Robinson site and was compared to the imprints at Christin's scene when
00:12:17
this was done the imprints came back to be that closer to that of a l man and not anything like a gremlin so too much
00:12:24
time was possibly wasted on the wrong car well there's a lot of information about various vehicles that it's
00:12:31
important to understand I say this all the time it's kind of resonates the blue Gremlin was really you know a red
00:12:37
herring the blue Gremlin was um something that was easy to put on posters that stuck in people's
00:12:45
minds was really just kind of a distraction from the reality of multiple other vehicles possibly being involved
00:12:54
more specifically a Pontiac LeMans um shows up in many of the police documents and and when I say the police documents
00:13:01
I want to be clear with you that that I've read through and studied for years now thousands of pages of internal
00:13:09
documents from the Michigan State Police the FBI throughout all that information
00:13:16
multiple multiple instances of other vehicles show up besides the blue Gremlin so I'd like to put away all
00:13:24
thought of the blue Gremlin however there is one instance of not a blue Gremlin but but a blue Vega uh which is
00:13:32
the mirror of the blue Gremlin it's a it's a same car A different brand that shows up and that that that car was
00:13:38
driven by two specific suspects in this case that become very important later on
00:13:45
so but let me back up for just a second and address the Pontiac LeMans um there were other Pontiacs there was a tempest
00:13:52
those Vehicles show up more than the blue Gremlin and you could say to yourself well why are we talking about
00:13:58
the blue GRL GRL why does everybody even think about the blue G Gremlin and and the answer it becomes very clear that um
00:14:07
when you're thinking about the blue Gremlin you're not thinking about all the other
00:14:11
cars and that's intentional so as we have seen with the vehicles the same might be true with the
00:14:18
evidence we've always been told that the bodies were scrub clean that there was no physical evidence but your
00:14:23
investigation would prove otherwise one of the most misleading parts of the narrative of the Oakland County child
00:14:30
killer Cas is that there was no evidence that from the very beginning in the 70s
00:14:34
76 77 78 79 into the early 80s news articles all the time all the time highlighted the fact that there was no
00:14:45
substantive evidence found anywhere near the bodies that the bodies were meticulously scrubbed that the clothing
00:14:52
was meticulously washed that they were looking for a lone serial killer of almost maniacal genius you know prowess
00:14:59
somebody who would never get found because he they speculated were was so smart and aware of police work and and
00:15:07
meticulous and you know like a Hannibal Lector sort um this was somebody who was
00:15:12
just too smart to be really tackled immediate way although Hannibal lecor is locked up but the reality of this case
00:15:20
was not only that there was plenty of evidence but that all of that evidence was was quashed was was shoved aside and
00:15:27
you have to look back at the files and you say now wait a minute not only is it not a scrubbed clean body but it's
00:15:35
actually a messy body and you have to wonder why that was why that was said and the main the main thing that I found
00:15:42
when looking through the documents the main thing of importance to me when looking through the documents is that
00:15:48
all of it points to the fact that very on there was an extreme amount of evidence and there were extremely
00:15:55
substantive leads and that there were people who under today's standards of investigative
00:16:02
and prosecutorial procedure would have been indicted for these crimes and ultimately found guilty so there was
00:16:08
blood evidence there was semen evidence there was fingerprint evidence there was
00:16:14
human hair evidence there was animal hair evidence there were carpet fibers I say well carpet fibers well what does
00:16:21
that mean to you let's say the least of the evidence let's say some carpet fibers all of the kids had the same
00:16:26
carpet fibers let's say human hair not just Christine had human hair on her there was human hair on multiple bodies
00:16:34
what are your thoughts on the bodies being placed out in public areas out in the open and maybe even suggesting that
00:16:41
they were taunting the police with the placement of these bodies yeah one of the things people often talked about in
00:16:47
the beginning of the case and continued to talk about throughout the decades was
00:16:50
that the bodies were not just dropped in plain sight but were neatly placed this
00:16:55
is another instance of having to forget everything you've ever learned about this case and started from the beginning
00:17:00
the bodies were yes they were dumped in plain sight no they were not placed neatly when people say why was something
00:17:07
dumped in plain sight instead of what like buried somewhere out in the woods or whatever it doesn't make sense to a
00:17:14
lot of people the answer is it makes perfect sense because this is not something that was very well thought out
00:17:20
on the part of the killer this is somebody who just really wasn't thinking ahead methodically prepare for the
00:17:29
murder of and dispose of the bodies of these children this was somebody who went off the rails had a body suddenly
00:17:37
and had to dump it fast these bodies were just dumped out of out of the back of a car I mean you look at Timothy
00:17:44
King's photo of his body at the uh drop site now the narrative that we've been given was that all of the bodies were
00:17:53
neatly positioned arms across their chest this kind of [ __ ] Timothy King looks the actual photo of Timothy King
00:18:01
at the drop site looks like he was just dumped out of a a car as quick as possible he's buckled onto himself face
00:18:09
down in the snow he just looks like a dude who just got tossed out of a car when you look at this black and white
00:18:16
Xerox I have of this photo and you see his body like that there's no way no way whatsoever to think that we were dealing
00:18:25
with anybody who meticulously planned anything this was this was somebody that in terms
00:18:32
of The Dumping of the body at the very least who just needed to get this body out of their car period when you say
00:18:39
Plain Sight there's two reasons to put in plain sight one is one is uh because they're trying to make a statement and
00:18:46
that's the narrative everybody's run with oh it was two miles from this police station or something well you
00:18:52
know you're in tight quarters almost anything is 2 miles from a police station if you're talking about a little
00:18:57
area right or a couple of miles from the police station they wanted to build this
00:19:01
this lore of like the maniacal killer who was taunting the police and all this [ __ ] it's totally totally misleading
00:19:08
what really happened is that multiple people were complicit in the abduction sexual molestation photographing and
00:19:17
such of these bodies of these of these kids and at some point these kids were murdered likely by the same person and
00:19:26
it in in at least proximity to other people people who at least knew what was happening and then had to get rid of the
00:19:33
[ __ ] body because he didn't know what to do he was not a smart person this was
00:19:37
not a maniacal person this was the work of a slob somebody who leaves blood semen saliva fingerprints hair dog hair
00:19:45
carpet fibers all over the bodies is not somebody who's making a statement by then you know being meticulous in the
00:19:52
placement you know in proximity to a police station you know a couple miles away or something these were Slavs man
00:19:57
these were were just there are prisons filled with criminals who weren't thinking ahead that's why the that's why
00:20:04
they're there I mean this this is not this is not something that we really need to overthink anymore once you go
00:20:10
back and you start from scratch and you get rid of all the narratives that you've been told and you realize they
00:20:16
were all a line of [ __ ] just like this Narrative of the bodies being placed and I know you've thought this
00:20:21
before and I know that others have thought this before because that's all you find in the news when you go when
00:20:26
you Google this case and you start your own investigative process and you start looking at all the reports and all the
00:20:33
old pictures and the Google images of all the all the suspects and all that everything's out there but it's all out
00:20:40
there from previous narratives none of it is really based on the documents that were obtained by foyer request in the
00:20:48
last decade that have been studied by some of the family members of the victims that have been studied by me at
00:20:54
this point and that have been studied by other police officers you know I met met
00:20:58
with police officer Jack Cal fles he was one of the original task force members on this case I had documents that he
00:21:05
hadn't seen so why is that when you're talking about a task force member a task force member a member a a trusted
00:21:14
seasoned detective one of a couple of hundred at the time who were working this case not having the
00:21:21
information that he needed to solve the case you have to suspect that that was on purpose
00:21:28
a task force is allegedly brought together to solve the crimes so when he didn't even have the
00:21:36
information that I had from the foyer requests and again I talk about State Police documents FBI documents uh City
00:21:43
documents Birmingham Ferndale Berkeley Southfield Leonia Oakland and Wayne Counties all of that information all
00:21:50
that information points to totally shaking up all the narratives that you're familiar with and one of those
00:21:55
narratives is the placement of the bodies and and it's sucks to have to tell you that because I'm sure you spent
00:22:00
a lot of time thinking about that when you when you did your investigative online investigative work but the
00:22:04
reality is the photos of the bodies at the at the drop at the drop sites the narratives from the drop sites uh the
00:22:15
individual uh statements from police officers who are at those drop sites don't line up with the grand Narrative
00:22:24
of these bodies being neatly placed [Music] this show is sponsored by better help do
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Cellular when Freedom calls we're here to answer call us at 1888 [Music] Freedom all right cheers mates it's good
00:24:43
to have another guy on the show that's not afraid to drop a fpom cheers to you captain and cheers to our friend Jay
00:24:48
Ruben Appleman author of The Kill jar Obsession descent and a hunt for Detroit's most notorious serial killer
00:24:56
which is available everywhere books are sold on Amazon and audible if you want to check it out make sure you do it's
00:25:04
the book that will prove to you and everyone else that everything we've always been told about the Oakland
00:25:09
County child killer is just not true now moving on Captain I want to get into some of our thoughts and something we
00:25:18
opened up this episode with with the thought that it was not one lone killer that possibly a group of individuals
00:25:26
were working together and had some involvement on some level in one two three or maybe all four of these cases
00:25:36
now to do so we're going to have to introduce you or reintroduce you to some suspects that we mentioned when we
00:25:43
covered the case the first time um some of these some of these suspects we just briefly mentioned on our show back in
00:25:51
2016 but one that we did talk about which is a great starting point is Christopher Bush now Christopher bush
00:25:59
had been in police custody short before Timothy King's abduction for suspected involvement in child pornography he
00:26:08
committed suicide in November of 1978 and bloodstained ligatures were found in his apartment as was a
00:26:17
handdrawn image of a boy closely resembling Mark steans screaming in agony which was found pinned to the wall
00:26:26
in which Bush committed suicide mhm there has been no confirmed activity how was the suicide remind me what the
00:26:34
suicide was he he had shot himself and we'll get into that but the thing that investigators and a lot of people keep
00:26:40
going back to when they talk about Christopher bush is that there has been no confirmed activity of the Oakland
00:26:46
County child killer since his death so many in law enforcement have suggested that the re real killer is dead and that
00:26:54
the Oakland County case is pretty much closed the old we know who did it but he's dead now we're going to go through
00:27:01
why that statement and that mindset could be wrong now here's here's a thing here captain in our previous episode I
00:27:10
think that I had said that bush had hung himself as you just asked me there and we pointed out he he shot himself but
00:27:17
that's actually a trickier situation because it is believed that no gunpowder residue was found on his hands so people
00:27:25
people rightfully so question that if this was in fact a suicide or is there some kind of chance that Christopher
00:27:34
Bush was killed that he was the Fall Guy for a group of pedophiles that he belonged to right so kill Christopher
00:27:41
Bush place the gun in his hands are on his bodies leave bloody legates in the room with him a drawing of Mark steans
00:27:49
screaming in pain tacked to the wall M and there you go police believe they have their killer right but then no
00:27:55
murders take place after that right okay so who could this group of individuals be that we keep talking about that could
00:28:03
be involved in one way or another in in these cases okay so we started with Christopher Bush let's talk about a guy
00:28:11
named James Vincent gunnels as a teenager gunnels was repeatedly sexually assaulted by Christopher Bush at the
00:28:19
bush family's Lake cabin Bush was convicted of this crime Gunn's hair was a partial DNA match with a hair that was
00:28:29
found on the blouse of Christine mahalik victim number three mhm gunnels was questioned regarding his possible
00:28:37
involvement in the Oakland County child killing cases and law enforcement claimed that gunnels cheated on one of
00:28:44
these tests and failed another failed what test the polygraph the polygraph test I'm sorry he cheated he's a cheater
00:28:54
uh gunnels is currently living at the central Michigan Correctional facility he has a very lengthy criminal record
00:29:01
but he could be released as early as June of next year so we have suspect Bush and we have suspect gundel which
00:29:08
was being molested by Bush and there's some thought that maybe gundels at some point became a accomplice of bushes that
00:29:17
they were molesting individuals together at some point right regardless we have Bush who was considered a suspect in the
00:29:24
cases who was a known acquaintance of gunnels and we find a hair on one of the victims of gunnels meaning gunnels
00:29:32
either came in contact with this victim or she had been at the same place that he had been at some point right so let's
00:29:40
bring another scumbag into the fold shall we and one of the earliest telephone tips submitted to police
00:29:47
Christopher Bush's name is mentioned this is a voice recording that has mysteriously been lost or erased
00:29:55
throughout the years of course it has but in in regards to that tip in 2008 a victim of child molestation and we will
00:30:03
not use his name here this victim testified in 2008 that when he was a child he was forced into sexual activity
00:30:11
with another boy that he believes was Timothy King victim number four he also testified that he was later shown a
00:30:19
Polaroid picture of that same boy again who he believes to be Timothy King the picture showed the boy tied up in the
00:30:28
trunk of what the victim believed to be Christopher Bush's vehicle he also testified that he was present when
00:30:35
Christopher Bush dropped off Timothy King at the home of a one Ted Lamborghini Ted lambor lives at the Ken
00:30:45
Ross Correctional Facility where he is scheduled to never be released he is serving life without the possibility of
00:30:52
parole this is because in July of 1976 this is around the time of the murders Ted was very busy committing 14 counts
00:31:02
of criminal sexual conduct eight times with a minor between the ages of 13 and 15 six times with a child under the age
00:31:10
of 13 years old Lamborghini is not only a sick disgusting pedophile pervert but he is as slippery as they come because
00:31:19
although he committed these terrible acts in 1976 he was not caught until he was found in Parma Heights Ohio in
00:31:27
December of 2006 turns out Ted lamborghin and his good friend this is Richard Lawson were
00:31:36
operating in a pedophile ring in Detroit in the 1970s and 80s once he's arrested here's the aha
00:31:45
moment regarding the old statement of we know who did it but he's dead gets turned on its side here so once finally
00:31:53
apprehended law enforcement publicly refers to Lamborghini as quote he was our most promising suspect in the
00:32:01
Oakland County child killer case Lawson in Lamborghini operated in Detroit's Cass Corridor pedophile ring mm Lawson
00:32:11
when caught pointed the blame for the murders at Lamborghini Lawson is serving a life sentence for murdering his boss
00:32:19
in Leonia in 1989 he was arrested in 2005 Lamborghini rejected a plea deal that would have reduced his sentence
00:32:29
greatly but it required him to take a polygraph and answer questions about the Oakland County child killings in
00:32:37
exchange they would dismiss 13 of the sex charges against him Lamborghini said no gunnels that lies and cheats on one
00:32:47
of the polygraphs and now we have this individual that will not take one even though he's going to get reduced
00:32:54
sentence correct so now this is uh this is pretty disgusting and pretty it's already been [ __ ] disgusting to hear
00:33:02
but um we have to clear up how these two know each other and how some of the other individuals know each other so the
00:33:08
the cast Corridor pedophile ring was basically this okay a group of men there the cast Corridor was a very poor
00:33:17
basically the projects okay and what they would do is they would pick up these boys who wanted food they wanted
00:33:25
money they wanted things and they would give them things they would give them money they would give them food they
00:33:30
would give them all three but in trade they were using them for sex and they would typically sodomize
00:33:40
these boys photograph them throw them in a bathtub hose them off and then return
00:33:45
them however they rarely harmed them in a physical way of let's say beating them
00:33:51
or strangling them anything like that because they dropped off these boys with the hopes that at some point they're
00:33:58
going to want some more money and they'll come back right and they're not going to tell anybody because they're so
00:34:03
poor right and so these men took advantage and they repeatedly raped these boys and it wasn't just 1 2 3 four
00:34:10
five boys it was a lot of boys that lived in this area Okay so the thing here is how does Lamborghini get on
00:34:19
police radar well he got there because Lawson remember his friend Richard Lawson who was involved in the same
00:34:25
pedophile ring M said hey I was scared of Lamborghini and I think he was involved in the murders well why he
00:34:33
tells law enforcement about a very specific story he says that there was another pedophile that they hung out
00:34:38
with his name is Bob Moore he was the owner of a bike shop that was near this cast Corridor so he's another in this
00:34:46
pedophile ring he kept a photo album of the boys that some of them were involved
00:34:53
with at one point one night while they were hanging out in the bike shop shop Lamborghini opens up the photograph book
00:35:00
and he shows Lawson a photo of a white kid from the other side of 8mile road and he said to Lawson looks like the
00:35:11
king boy doesn't it and gave him a wink you'll be glad to know that this other individual that we just introduced
00:35:18
Bob Moore died in 1996 of cardiac arrest in his home his pit bulls devoured his carcass before the body was discovered
00:35:27
right good archal Edward Sloan he owned a 19 shitty name he owned a 1966 Pontiac
00:35:36
bonnaville mitochondrial DNA taken from hairs found in Sloan's bonnaville matches DNA found at at least one of the
00:35:45
body dump scenes I actually believe that this DNA matches DNA collected from as many as three of the crime scenes we got
00:35:53
to be clear here though because the tricky thing is the DNA is not a match to archabald Sloan but just simply hairs
00:36:00
found in his car back then Sloan he was known to have lent out his car to plenty
00:36:08
of people he also owned several other vehicles at this time he owned a 1969 black Chevy pickup and a 1971 blue
00:36:17
pickup archabald Sloan has been convicted of two counts of first-degree sexual assault against a male against
00:36:25
male Miners and he currently serving a life sentence okay I know that's a lot to take in but what we're pointing out
00:36:33
here is that we have multiple individuals that have known ties to one another and they have some tie to one or
00:36:42
two of the crimes and coincidentally they've all at some point been charged with sexual acts
00:36:51
against minors two of them serving life sentences because they've committed so many of these crimes crimes now we have
00:36:58
to talk about a guy named Gregory green now this is taken directly from Barry King's website and blog he is the father
00:37:06
of victim number four Timothy King the task force formally advised the king family that Gregory green was a
00:37:15
potential suspect and that he participated in the Oakland County child killings this was discussed when the
00:37:23
Michigan State Police reports were given to the king family Gregory green was a known pedophile and a companion of
00:37:32
Christopher Bush the Michigan State Police reports have extensive history of his pedophile convictions in
00:37:40
California including one case in which green thought the boy was dead and dropped him off at a hospital okay so to
00:37:48
be I don't want to go through this in any more detail than I have to but the the general the general thing in this
00:37:55
particular case is is this Gregory green not only enjoyed molesting boys but he enjoyed choking them at the same time on
00:38:05
one of these occasions and I say one of these because he did this to multiple victims he thought he had killed the boy
00:38:12
so he drove to the hospital and he left the boy in front of the entrance just lying there right the boy ultimately was
00:38:24
revived mhm and so he lived luckily he lived uh he did have to serve jail time for this in California unfortunately it
00:38:33
wasn't a life sentence and he once returned from jail once he's out of jail he returned to his home of Flint
00:38:40
Michigan green and Bush they were confidants and spent time together and they molested individuals together
00:38:49
including Christopher Bush's younger cousin well the list of sick [ __ ] just keeps continuing okay so we mentioned
00:38:57
that Christopher Bush was spoken to by the police in regards to the Oakland County cases okay right so was Gregory
00:39:08
green what they were able to get from these two individuals is one same story it's a very troubling story that the two
00:39:17
of them at some point had agreed that one of them should get a day job and the other one should get a night job so that
00:39:25
if they took it a young victim captive that one of them would be present during the day to watch over the victim and the
00:39:34
other present at night to watch over the victim however when asked the question Christopher Bush would not answer the
00:39:42
question as to what they intended to do with the victim when they were finished with the child Barry King also in his
00:39:50
blog states that on more than one occasion Gregory green stated that Christopher bush had killed Mark Stein's
00:39:58
victim number one now green was sentenced to life in prison for violating a child and later he died in
00:40:06
prison in 1996 so all these guys are connected in some way and possibly had something to do with these murders half
00:40:15
of them are dead yeah we're not definitively saying want to be clear on that we're not definitively saying that
00:40:22
this is what happened up in Oakland County we're just simp pointing out that there are things and reasons to believe
00:40:31
that one or a bunch of these individuals were involved and possibly working together to dupe the police to make it
00:40:38
harder on their investigation yeah and and I think people knew that there was you know obviously child pedophilia
00:40:46
going on but I think the idea that there was Rings or some kind of network I think was kind of probably not discussed
00:40:57
a lot in the 70s it's not even discussed enough today well I think for us to get
00:41:02
the break that is needed in this case I think that James Vincent gunnels is the go-to I think he's somebody that needs
00:41:10
to really be talked to at length he's technically the only one with something to lose meaning that the others are dead
00:41:19
or currently serving life sentences and one of the guys Richard Richard Lawson has already rolled on another person
00:41:27
he's already said look I think Ted Lamborghini did this and here's why right but then we have the I think what
00:41:35
the last group of guys that one of them thinks that they killed the first victim
00:41:40
correct but what I'm pointing out here is gunnels is the only one with something left to lose every all the
00:41:46
other individuals named in this story that we named as suspects and in this group are either dead or serving life
00:41:54
sentences the the first sick thing about all this is that most of these individuals that we speak of as big of
00:42:03
pieces of [ __ ] as they are they are probably at one time victims themselves and then you
00:42:13
have gunels which we know was a victim and possibly became an accomplice and I don't think that
00:42:23
justifies anything I actually have some suspicion that maybe he is the reason why bush is dead
00:42:32
and maybe that's why you're not going to get a lot out of him CU maybe it's not this network of these sick
00:42:39
[ __ ] um network of the sick [ __ ] that did all this stuff and they destroyed these children and they left them on the
00:42:47
side of the road as if they're trash and I think for whatever reason this this guy that became a victim that probably
00:42:54
got wrapped up in this and probably had something to do with these murders of these children then decided that enough
00:43:01
was enough and he had to kill the guy that was you know torturing him and and making him what he became yeah and it's
00:43:10
just sick to know and have an understanding that these individuals were working together and here's the
00:43:17
thing regardless if they were working together in the Oakland County child killer cases we know that some of them
00:43:24
were working together in the cast Corridor case mhm and you had mentioned the victims of the okay the Oakland
00:43:32
County case being thrown out of the car disposed of like trash MH same with those poor kids that were allowed to go
00:43:41
home at the end of the day they too were treated like trash by these men by by individuals named in this episode and
00:43:51
victims of course they didn't get to choose to be victims if they were at one time time a victim but at some point in
00:43:58
their life they chose to victimize others and that was a choice that they made willingly made and this case was
00:44:07
very hard to research and very hard to put together considering these individuals in the
00:44:14
acts that they've committed against people in the community one people need to talk about this more often and know
00:44:21
that it's part of reality and you have to accept that it there it is happening it's going on it's a problem and you
00:44:29
need to be aware of this and maybe you can be part of the good guys to stop it well and if you want to learn more pick
00:44:37
up The Kill jar by J Ruben Appleman you can also visit Barry King's blog and learn more about the case there and
00:44:46
anyone with information on any of the suspects that we have talked about or anyone with information about the
00:44:52
murders please please call A 800 442 [Music] 7766 again thanks for listening and for
00:45:10
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