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what will you find thank you [Music] [Music] foreign [Music] [Music] welcome back and a reminder here as we
00:02:10
get into episode two and further along with our interview with Philip Klein of client investigations and Consulting
00:02:17
that this is an ongoing investigation little Dior Coons is still missing we're coming up on eight years now and if you
00:02:27
have any information or if client investigations has some information part of the information but needs a little
00:02:35
bit more and you can clarify something for them and their investigation please make sure that you reach out to the
00:02:42
investigating agencies here because the captain and I both feel like there are just a couple of questions that need to
00:02:49
be answered to seal this investigation up and really figure out what happened here and maybe bring forward charges in
00:02:59
this investigation and find the little boy in his remains yeah and anybody that's been following this case we we
00:03:07
really felt like this interview is really important to release because both me and the colonel have followed this
00:03:15
case very closely and had some questions and I I think Philip does a great job of
00:03:21
painting a clearer picture of what possibly happened an investigating agency in this case is the lean High
00:03:28
County Sheriff's Office they can be contacted at 208-756-8980 or you can go to their
00:03:37
website if you are uncomfortable with speaking with someone from law enforcement for any reason at all you
00:03:44
can most certainly contact Philip Klein or any of his colleagues at Klein investigations their website is
00:03:54
k-l-e-i-n investigations.com and their phone number is 409-729-8798 and now we get to our
00:04:04
questions for client investigations as we go into part two [Music] if we're covering up an accident okay
00:04:21
you could take us through maybe what would be the penalty for a parent involved in some kind of accident
00:04:27
resulting in the the fatality of their youngster but a big question I have here is did you guys find anything to suggest
00:04:37
that Vernal was involved in drug use and or regular drug use well so the answer to that question is yes there are
00:04:50
suggestions that he had used meth from time to time according to the family members again I don't know how much meth
00:04:58
he was into but it was enough to raise the aura of the family I think Jessica also told us that he used a little bit
00:05:06
but Jessica but Jessica isn't the Virgin Mary in all this now she she misled us as well which goes back to that
00:05:16
interview after we were fired by Jessica well actually by vernal's father uh and hired by another family member uh
00:05:24
that now famous interview that's all I think you can get it on the interview and even the media people missed it but
00:05:33
they got it during dubbing and they called us and said hey you need to get a copy of this
00:05:38
where Vernal she's doing the interview and they say hold on we've got to change a battery
00:05:43
so while they're changing the battery on one of the cameras the other camera is just a rolling I
00:05:49
mean it's just rolling and vernal gets over to her and looks at her and goes do not use past tense words use present
00:05:59
tense words she goes what don't say was say is something to that effect and I'm paraphrasing again and she looks at him
00:06:10
and she just rolls her eyes and shakes her head but she changes the back side of the interview to use present day
00:06:19
tense and that kind of that's when we all went okay now we know that's when we kind of
00:06:26
went okay that nothing comes out of their mouth is going to be the truth and they wouldn't talk about it with law
00:06:32
enforcement Mr Browning shut down their Communications with law enforcement at that point and and I I'm going down the
00:06:39
drug route because of multitude of reasons but at the most simple is his job he's a he's a trucker
00:06:47
and I know that with with a lot of those types of jobs and on the job or even off
00:06:53
the job accident results in mandatory drug testing to keep your job and where where somebody might be wondering well
00:07:02
why would they if it was truly just an accident why go to these Great Lengths to cover it up well there's there's
00:07:08
other things at stake for uh for Vernal well I think here yes you are absolutely
00:07:16
right that is part of the equation yes you're you're very you're very good at that but let me say B I want you to hear
00:07:23
this is that they didn't know the law now if they had picked up the phone and said
00:07:30
there was an accident or if they had confessed to the FBI and said yeah we buried the baby in a cooler right and
00:07:40
then at a later time and date after everybody had left and we said we were going up there to do searches we got the
00:07:46
cooler out of the ground and we took it over to the dumpster or to a dumpster Set uh which will lead us to where we
00:07:53
are today um and it was delivered into a landfill because remember those guys don't look
00:07:59
inside their dumpsters they just come up with their big trucks and dump it in the
00:08:03
dumpster how many bodies have we found in in the landfills so um I I think they didn't know the law and I think that
00:08:11
they were probably thinking they would have gone to jail for the rest of their lives
00:08:15
when in fact all of the police officers were telling them look you're not going to jail for the rest of your life if you
00:08:23
did this in in Idaho it's called tampering with the body it's a Class C misdemeanor like a traffic ticket like
00:08:32
going 75 in a 55 all you have to do is admit to it be done with it pay your fine maybe do
00:08:40
two days in jail at the worst who knows what they would have done up in Lim High
00:08:45
We gonna do tell us I mean God make this all go away because at that point we had
00:08:52
Nancy Grace involved we had oh my God Dr Phil wanted the children over there and
00:08:58
then me faced the uh the the two adults me faced the two adults because he had read what we had been putting out
00:09:06
because we had to put out something they weren't our clients anymore and that's when the sheriff came out and said
00:09:12
they're suspects and then that's when the media came to us to say what's your opinion and we said we don't see
00:09:17
anything wrong with what the sheriff has said where the sheriff is we're with law
00:09:21
enforcement on this one because you know I'm not their defense investigator all right I'm the guy just trying to find
00:09:28
the body or the kid right and that's when all the miss that's when all the myths numerous went
00:09:36
out from from people that lived in Idaho Falls that knew the attorney that knew Jessica and vernal and I think you know
00:09:47
once people started going you know once you start putting that down in people's mind
00:09:51
uh you know I think they were trying to impune a jury pool I think they were uh but I I because I knew we were getting
00:09:59
close and then all of a sudden they made the decision they were going to sue us for contract violation and we were like
00:10:06
you can't sue us for that that and and because the truth is the Ultimate Defense that's our famous saying around
00:10:14
here the truth is the ultimate defense and there's been you know many people since 1992 that have tried to file some
00:10:24
type of legal action saying well you guys didn't do your jobs you didn't find my kid and we said well yeah we did it's
00:10:30
the body and this is again before DNA was real big and then they find out oh in fact they did and the suits dropped
00:10:37
to people that we've named as suspects and then the judges and the juries get a hold of the information and they go oh
00:10:45
no no no no these guys are not liable these guys know what they're doing because when we get on the stand we tell
00:10:51
the story and we tell it in a concise manner that people will understand so I think
00:10:57
I think that the misinformation plays started and I think once the lawsuit was filed Witnesses clammed up everybody
00:11:04
kind of went I don't want to be involved in that and the judge dismissed the lawsuit immediately not immediately I
00:11:11
think after about five six months the judge dismissed the lawsuit the interesting part of the lawsuit was it
00:11:16
was only Vernal suing Vernal and his father it wasn't Jessica didn't didn't sue us so what you're
00:11:26
saying out of the four people that were up there the mother the father and the grandfather know what happened
00:11:33
but maybe the mother's not saying anything because we're not suing you guys because she feels more guilty about
00:11:40
what happened yeah yeah listen I I met their attorney uh I like the guy I think he's a great guy I think she's a nice
00:11:48
guy uh he just was defending his clients he's kind of a bulldog which is fine you
00:11:53
gotta have you know he's he's not a Denny Crane he's not an allen Shore he's he's just one of those guys that shut
00:11:59
the hell up his pleadings are very very mean uh and and that's some attorneys I met nice attorneys mean attorney he's a
00:12:08
mean attorney I think that in the end um you know vernal's Daddy died right and um during the middle of the lawsuit uh I
00:12:19
think Vernal was out there on his own and we were fixing to start depositions and that was not going to go the right
00:12:27
way for Vernal uh because he knew that we knew everything and I and and I think he started becoming a little shaky but
00:12:36
we went ahead to the judge and said judge you know look uh they want to file a motion to dismiss with attorneys fees
00:12:43
we said no we're going to fight that we presented what we knew the judge came back after about a week and said no uh
00:12:52
Klein's good and his information is good the truth is the Ultimate Defense uh Mr
00:12:57
Coons you've lied over all this stuff uh and he said it you know kind of in a pleading he didn't come out and say
00:13:04
you're a liar he came out and just said no you know it's not working for you Mr Coons and the truth is the ultimate
00:13:09
defense and so therefore uh under uh under the law you are uh dismissing the case
00:13:19
only on dismissing the case but I'm giving Mr Klein's insurance company Mr Klein the opportunity to click their
00:13:25
legal fees which were well over a hundred thousand dollars immediately did a asset check on Vernal
00:13:33
and his dad's estate and they they don't they don't have any money they got zero
00:13:38
dollars uh so why would I want to spend another 25 000 to get liens on people that have no money I mean it's just a
00:13:46
waste of my money and it's a waste of time so we let it go we just let it go and I I think that uh at that point
00:13:54
Trina Clegg brought in a guy named David marshburn he's also a private investigator and
00:14:00
marshburn went out to the site and his dog interestingly enough we've never said this publicly because we've all
00:14:07
kind of just sat back and kind of wanted to watch what Marsh Byrne would do but marshburn sided up with uh
00:14:15
with uh uh Mr Browning that was uh Vero Kunis's lawyer marshburn's dog hit in the same place that we our dogs hit so
00:14:26
it's kind of like I found a bone and this is gonna blow this case wide open and all this other stuff we were like
00:14:33
well if you found the bone [ __ ] you're better than us yay and uh because you know we one thing we do here is we keep
00:14:41
a positive attitude we really do we keep a positive attitude it's not about who finds a child it's about finding the
00:14:48
child right so if people have other eyes yay go get them right that's what that's
00:14:53
the way we feel here okay so when marshburn started coming out on TV and radio and so oh I found my dog's
00:15:03
found scent and he went all over Facebook and he had pictures of himself up on Facebook and with the dogs and
00:15:09
everything we were like go Dog go let's go maybe we were wrong it's okay to be wrong right it's okay it's okay to be
00:15:16
wrong everybody looks at his that's terrible and horrible but it's okay to be wrong if you do it in good faith if
00:15:22
you do it in bad faith you lie and you're trying to get away with something that's bad but that's kind of how we
00:15:28
handled it well Marsh Burns bone turned out to be an old deer bone from back in they said I think they were telling us
00:15:36
it was uh oh my goodness back in 19 I think they said in the 90s the 80s it was just an
00:15:44
old bone from a deer uh and and all of a sudden Marsh furnace disappeared from the case
00:15:49
so that's been kind of interesting he's kind of disappeared but it did show up on YouTube with Mr Browning calling me
00:15:56
names calling my company names calling everybody names well and you see that with online sleuthers with YouTube
00:16:03
creators podcast creators where everybody wants to be the genius or the expert of a certain case and it really
00:16:11
doesn't matter who solves this case or who figures out where this boy is and how we get the remains back
00:16:19
as long as it gets done yeah and interestingly enough when we found out marshburn was involved
00:16:27
even a letter saying hey you may be better than us rah-rah let's go get them I'm gonna load
00:16:36
everything up into bankers boxes I've got to be out in South Carolina on a in a meeting or I was teaching I why don't
00:16:45
I just drive up the road and uh you know you and I can sit in a room and we'll grab some pizza and some coke and we'll
00:16:51
sit on the floor and you can go through every one of our files I have permission
00:16:55
from my client to allow you to go through every one of my files and you know what he said I don't want to go
00:17:03
through your files I don't want anything to do with you and that kind of went what what do we do to you dude
00:17:10
what why do we we didn't crap in your backyard what's going on so um you're the one that came and crapped
00:17:18
in our backyard so we're trying to extend uh you know a good faith gesture to you saying maybe you are smarter than
00:17:26
us let's go through the file together let's go through the interviews let's get a TV set up and we'll bring sticks
00:17:33
and you can watch every interview and you can you can do all this stuff and then if you want to do a podcast he does
00:17:39
podcasts we said if you want to do a podcast let's do a podcast together I'll answer any question you have let's work
00:17:46
together tell us to go below literally go screw yourself I think was the words and we were like and he cursed
00:17:55
me out like I've never used the f word and all these other words and we were like dude what are you doing what what's
00:18:02
going on aren't we supposed to all be working together Fine Again and uh so that's how marshburn came in
00:18:08
Philip let's go through some things real quick kind of short answers one yes no because there's a couple things I want
00:18:14
to make sure that we get to before we run out of time uh just to kind of answer some quick
00:18:20
rapid fire type questions check some boxes for those listening so what what you're saying is that you're through
00:18:28
interviews and through the your findings your evidence it is of your opinion that
00:18:34
there some kind of accidental death led to the death of this little boy and the parents then cover it up stop me
00:18:45
when I get to something that I'm wrong no you're right but he's near the sea of where they are air quotes camping
00:18:55
um and probably Vernal sitting there awfully nervous hoping they don't find what they've concealed so that it can be
00:19:03
moved later right and then your findings in things that you've uncovered suggest that were probably if
00:19:11
you were to find The Remains it's likely in in the landfill somewhere and then Bob Walton
00:19:19
uh passes away and basically he may not know exactly what happened but it sounds
00:19:26
like he wasn't willing to budge he may not have been there when it happened but he's
00:19:33
he's accepted it for what it is and choosing not to talk uh leading up to his death
00:19:40
and then the with Isaac he's a bit of a scapegoat because Mom and Dad can point to him and
00:19:49
go well he's kind of this weird guy that we don't really know and he's there on this trip but there's nothing to suggest
00:19:55
that Isaac was up to to no good and and Isaac is interviewed by you guys on multiple occasions he's the only one of
00:20:05
the four that is giving a consistent story and his story it sounds like to me is
00:20:11
I'm a the Dior was there the day before and then the next morning wakey wakey eggs
00:20:18
and bakey I didn't I don't see Dior after that exactly and so it so at some point
00:20:26
they conceal the remains and now bring us up to speed of some rather interesting finds that you guys
00:20:35
had as far as post offense Behavior as far as uh post cover-up behavior from Mom and Dad who just lost mysteriously
00:20:46
lost their two and a half year old little boy well at first no but we've had suspects do that all
00:20:59
the time Philippines normal a horrible terrible attack guy so we know right then okay you know something's coming so
00:21:07
a lot of the news media does the three-year anniversary of the five-year anniversary the eight year anniversary
00:21:13
and in these interviews they say oh we go up all of the time and we search for the baby up there in the mountains when
00:21:22
in fact we already know because consequently us and law enforcement are up there in the mountains kind of
00:21:28
watching who's coming and going they hadn't been up there they've never gone up there they've gone up there maybe one
00:21:34
time one time they went up there and that was to do an interview with the news media right
00:21:42
and so we kind of went hmm now this is during the litigation phase they were just trying to put on a good
00:21:49
front which is fine it's okay so that's the first thing the second thing is that we when you leave people alone
00:21:59
they have a tendency to be who they really are Vernal moves out of Idaho Falls and goes down to I guess Las Vegas
00:22:06
Nevada a little town Norfolk Las Vegas but we'll call it Las Vegas and he's going to be a trucker and he's doing his
00:22:14
Trucking thing and so during that time we get what we call a UC an undercover uh not an investigator but an undercover
00:22:25
plant and she makes contact with Vernal and vernal we start going hmm okay Vernal
00:22:34
you know what are you up to and so she makes friends with him and they're talking on the internet and they talk on
00:22:41
Facebook and then out of nowhere this UC starts sending us pictures that Vernal sent into himself very graphic
00:22:53
pornography pictures of himself to this girl and she goes what do you want us to do I
00:22:58
said Keep It Coming let's go let's see what he's all about and so that's one thing that happens so
00:23:04
we're kind of like okay in the pictures you can see some pretty scandalous stuff I don't really want to
00:23:12
talk about it because I can't test it and make sure it is what it is but some pretty scandalous stuff
00:23:18
then after that he figures out oh no I've been duped this is an undercover agent that undercover witness that is
00:23:27
clients put on to me and so he blows up and goes crazy so we in the process begin to
00:23:39
re-go back over our notes now there's a time period in there six month time period where we kind of let everything
00:23:46
just kind of go cool we just want everything to kind of go cool so when we decide to crank back up that
00:23:53
the client calls us another client calls us and says I'm sisters with this one I
00:23:59
want to get you guys back involved where like ah you know we've already dropped out we don't know then they say Please
00:24:06
Mr Klein would you do this and to Mrs gear and Mrs gear please so we do we say okay you know no money foundational
00:24:14
cover the expenses too at this point which by the way my company has about almost two hundred
00:24:22
thousand dollars invested in this case of our money right of our money not anybody else's
00:24:29
money of our money and people say why the hell the special people in the media say why the hell you do that well you
00:24:36
know what it's not about us and it's not about them it's about finding this little baby to put this little baby to
00:24:43
rest well when you do it as long as we do it and you're successful at it as we are
00:24:48
there's something inside your body and soul that tells you you can't walk away from it this is one of those cases I
00:24:54
just can't walk away I just I can't I can't I just see that little boy's face and it kills me because I have a little
00:25:01
grandson that you know has that same little face innocence happy you know a little blonde hair big boots you know a
00:25:08
little bit so we cranked back up and the first thing I want to do is thing called
00:25:14
a peer review y'all know peer reviews do you all ever talk about those where you
00:25:19
get other private investigators that are on your level too you send them the you
00:25:24
send them we call it the Box you send them the box and they go through everything you've done and some of those
00:25:29
can get pretty rough I mean they can say why did you do this why'd you ask this question I know a lot of them have asked
00:25:34
me that have reviewed my case why'd you throw the laptop across the room and it was just out of total frustration of
00:25:44
this guy I knew he knew what happened to that child I just knew Bob knew I just knew it you just know when you interview
00:25:51
as many people as we've interviewed I think when I saw homes start turning red and getting angry and you know the guy
00:25:58
was just kind of laughing at us and saying they can screw and have another baby and we were like what
00:26:04
I mean that's how blatant it is and so um the peer review came back to us and said no you guys are right on track
00:26:12
other than a couple of things you shouldn't have found the laptop you shouldn't have
00:26:17
oh I think there was a you should have confronted uh uh earlier you should have confronted uh
00:26:24
Vernal in person with what you had on the blood you should have you know there's a bunch of stuff we should have
00:26:31
done which looking back they're probably right I mean you know it was In the Heat
00:26:35
of the Moment and that sort of thing so we after peer review was done we said okay let's go back over everything we've
00:26:42
everything we have done and we did that and what we came back to is the missing uh cooler right and the
00:26:53
um dumpsters that were down at the bottom of the hill seven miles away and we started making out a path a
00:27:01
passage towards okay what if Vernal and Jessica went down there and they they watched the dumpsters and which would
00:27:11
fit the timeline it would fit everything right perfect and they got that cooler and they dumped it in the uh uh they
00:27:19
dumped it in the uh in dumpster interestingly enough the guy at the uh the guy at the uh a gas I went a gas
00:27:27
station the feed store uh did say yeah there was cooler on the truck so it just and so we kind of thought to
00:27:35
ourselves well you know maybe Vernon was going down to get ice there was no ice purchase so that was kind of a Miss by
00:27:41
us and law enforcement um and so uh at that point uh we kind of feel what happened the working Theory
00:27:49
we're working with now is that uh that he buried the body up there covered it up put it as all the people arrived
00:27:57
there was a guy out there directing traffic uh to where to park your cars and don't park it in the crime scene
00:28:03
area which is of course right there at the uh at the cattle guard right remember
00:28:10
the cap guard cowgirl comes into play in this thing and uh so we feel that uh the
00:28:16
working Theory we're working with based upon the information we've gotten from Witnesses is that uh that uh the the
00:28:24
cooler was most likely used uh buried there covered up after everybody left they eventually Somebody went back up
00:28:31
here and got that cooler and put it in the dumpster uh down south or in retrospect they laid the body there they
00:28:39
came down with a cooler put the body in the cooler and they sat down there and watched the uh uh the dumpster area and
00:28:47
when everybody was gone there was nobody else around because remember they were up there during a pretty busy period of
00:28:52
time uh they got the cooler and they threw it in one of the dumpsters and covered it up with trash
00:28:58
uh and the dumpster guy came and got it and I just got lucky hey God look [Music]
00:29:17
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thank you all right we are back cheers mates tall cans in the Air Canada to the people in the back very
00:30:33
fascinating stuff like I said to me it just paints a clearer picture and I have a way better understanding of the case
00:30:40
and and possibly what went down that that horrible tragic camping trip and the situation has
00:30:50
always been a strange one right Captain you got this missing child and part of you cannot
00:30:57
help but feel bad for the four individuals that were there on the camping trip the the great
00:31:05
grandfather the mother the Father the the friend Isaac because they're all wrapped up in this and and some of the
00:31:12
people on this trip have lost someone too right and that always makes it very conflicting when you're trying to look
00:31:19
at these stories and trying to tear through the details and get a better understanding of what happened because
00:31:26
you have that that that lingering thought in the back of your mind that these could be people that are
00:31:34
very much hurting as well well now what we're getting as you said a clearer picture a better understanding of what
00:31:41
likely took place within a 24-hour time period and it seems to be the the the most
00:31:49
impressive thing an alarming thing at the same time that's been uncovered by Klein investigations and Consulting
00:31:58
is that not only do the parents know what happened to their son but Vernal the father is steering the ship
00:32:08
and controlling the narrative and likely controlling some of the other players or
00:32:13
influencing some of the other players here in this matter yeah again lies upon lies but also
00:32:24
then asking for sympathy from the public this is this is where it just gets where you stop feeling bad for these
00:32:34
individuals and and you start questioning why aren't they just telling law enforcement the truth and exactly
00:32:42
you're exactly right there Captain because not only do we have other family members who are putting up their time
00:32:49
their money their resources into trying to assist in an investigation that will tell us what happened to Dior or in the
00:32:59
early stages hopefully find him but keep in mind in the early stages of this investigation
00:33:06
what what Philip Klein does not mention is that the general public came together
00:33:11
and raised almost thirty thousand dollars to assist Vernal and Jessica in in the hopes of finding their son yeah
00:33:21
and where is the the justice and where is the Peace for this little boy the only Justice the only piece that could
00:33:27
come for this little boy little Dior Coons is now in the hands of the investigators
00:33:33
is now in the people that are charged with investigating this case and figuring out exactly what happened let's
00:33:42
get back to our interview with Philip Klein so Philip you were talking about some of the weird actions of the father
00:33:49
but do we have any weird actions that we can speak about uh how the mother was acting afterwards yeah
00:33:57
she she she was very submissive very submissive to Vernal very submissive very and
00:34:08
we kind of were looking at that going did you threaten her and I tried to ask her the question she knew where I was
00:34:15
going with it and she wouldn't answer me she just went on to something else I asked you the question do you feel
00:34:21
threatened in any way you know by Vernal or anybody else in vernal's family or anybody in your family for that matter
00:34:28
uh you know we asked that question and she wouldn't answer it so we didn't find anything to pinpoint a more exact time
00:34:36
of when the cooler could have been moved after law enforcement we do know we do know the pickup times which was Tuesday
00:34:45
and Friday I think and so it would have been Friday of after that Thursday night
00:34:50
that it was picked up and moved uh or it was dumped into one of the bigger trucks
00:34:56
and the bigger trucks went out to the landfill so you can kind of assume what we're doing right now is we're going
00:35:02
through it's called uh it's called tagging landfill we're going out with what year because they keep track of
00:35:09
everything out those landfills they know they know what truck delivered it they know what truck picked up the trash what
00:35:16
truck dumped the trash where they know that stuff at the landfills so you know we're going through a period of Imaging
00:35:26
and marking and all the other good stuff that we do so if your guys's theory is correct on what happened and this is an
00:35:33
accident something bad happened they covered up so do you think the mother is just not coming forward because she is a
00:35:40
afraid for her safety if she speaks out of turn I think so I think the way she acted the way she dropped out of the
00:35:47
lawsuit you know Jacob and she'd give she'd given up her other two children to the daddy
00:35:57
um her other baby daddy um I I just think Jessica um I don't know what to say about
00:36:06
Jessica she's definitely a narcissist in my opinion uh she's definitely hiding something in
00:36:13
my opinion I think she's definitely knows more than she's telling the general public law enforcement and of
00:36:20
course she's never going to talk to us again in my opinion the smartest thing for Jessica to do is pick up the phone
00:36:27
and call us as PSB investigators Private Security Board investigators because we're civil we're not criminal we can't
00:36:34
charge her and sit down with us and tell us the story I'd hate to be Jessica Mitchell and carry this
00:36:42
on my in my heart in my back I I and knowing one day we all are gonna die right and knowing one day that she's
00:36:51
gonna die and she's gonna have to face our Lord and savior and if she ever gets a chance to see him I mean that's just
00:37:00
what I'm saying I don't know I don't I just don't know what else to say on that uh Jessica I believe is the
00:37:09
one that will break first uh and and finally say something either that or she's my belief is she's probably going
00:37:16
to end up in a mental institution I I there's she's gone through so many men she goes she picks bad men drug
00:37:25
addicts bad guys like I think vernal's a very bad guy I picks Vernal she doesn't
00:37:30
pick good men and uh I I think uh she's searching for something and uh you know and she and
00:37:39
you know when she's lying because her voice goes up two octaves and she screams so you know when you got her in
00:37:46
a lie and she never looks at you that's one thing that I always bothered me about her during the interview is uh my
00:37:54
interview with her was that she would never look at me she'd always look to the left and down and anybody who takes
00:37:59
any type of interview courses knows what that means they just they're they're trying to de-contact with you and
00:38:06
they're just trying to tell you a lie is there any evidence that the father was abusive towards the sun towards the
00:38:15
two-year-old or abusive towards his wife you know I I don't I don't I don't know
00:38:23
and that's always been a discussion now you're coming into the investigators conference room where we all sit and we
00:38:29
all are on the on I guess what we call it now Skype or whatever zoom and we're all in the room and we're all talking
00:38:36
and we're all going over okay well do you think Vernal could have beat the crap out of him and heard him high on
00:38:42
meth and I'm kind of like if he is he's a cold blooded killer but that's what the sheriff the old Sheriff
00:38:50
thinks if they won't come out and they were offered a deal you know everybody says well they were offered immunity
00:38:57
yes they were from a Class C misdemeanor if they won't agree to a Class C misdemeanor which is a traffic ticket
00:39:06
which is a 200 fine and if you're lucky a day in jail if they won't agree to that like the old Sheriff say Bowerman
00:39:14
said he looked me right in the eyes he said well if they won't take that deal what deal is it what did they really do
00:39:23
think about that did you guys uncover anything that I mean shortly after they come down off of the mountain that you
00:39:30
found to be odd behavior from yeah all over the place from the point of telling us that the baby was knocking on the
00:39:37
window talking to the guy that was pumping the gas to the guy that was pumping the gas there was no kid in that
00:39:41
car to the to the to the stage shop it was unusual for them to go into that long diatribe and say oh he was running
00:39:48
around everybody was laughing at him there was a long line of people we go back and look at the register inputs
00:39:55
there was no long line of people and and we talked to the lady that actually wrung it up and she said there was no
00:40:00
small kid in here to the Beer guy who said there was I never put anybody like that up in my truck to the truck guy
00:40:08
that said we found the truck guy he said no I never I never did that what are y'all talking about you know these are
00:40:15
the weird things these stories they made up that they really in in in my opinion
00:40:22
that they thought we would fall for Hook Line and sink yeah it's almost like they
00:40:27
didn't think anybody would check on their stories yeah nobody can check that they can't find these people it's a year
00:40:32
or two down the line now they can't find them well if you can't find them a year
00:40:36
or two down the line you're not a very good investigator right so I don't know we have a great team
00:40:43
here and they're really good at what they do and you know sure enough they walk in here with these long faces and
00:40:48
say yeah I found the I found the beer guy I never forget that uh Charlie walking in saying I found the beer guy
00:40:53
oh cool what'd the beer guy say did he Bentley you know did he played a little diority
00:41:00
so when they were offered this immunity basically from law enforcement did they have to show where the body was or
00:41:08
produce the body if they would have produced this body and they'd ran tests and did an autopsy
00:41:17
and and found out that their story wasn't true or they weren't being truthful they didn't could have been in
00:41:23
big trouble for that they could aligned to a federal agent that's big money right
00:41:31
you with me yeah but so law enforcement is just tell us the truth tell us what happened
00:41:43
I will charge you with is a misdemeanor that's what we'll charge you with is which is a misdemeanor
00:41:52
and they wouldn't take the deal so like the sheriff told me he said Philip he said I know you're not a you're not a uh
00:42:01
you're you're not a uh uh a criminal investigator but you're pretty good at what you do he said let me just present
00:42:08
it to you this way and that's how he presented it to me and I was kind of like wow you know what dude you're right
00:42:15
you're right they won't take a misdemeanor plea and they won't show us what happened with
00:42:20
the body now his attorney spun it big time his attorney spun it as oh well they just don't know and we were like
00:42:29
you don't know wait a minute what are you telling us here um I I again it's all just built on lies
00:42:39
and you can't and once you're presented with a lie that's it it's over okay we're we're we got you what Philip what
00:42:47
is the sex shop story that so okay let me set it up for you we call yeah well actually let me let me
00:42:56
Lead You In with this so Dior Coons and you you correct me if I'm wrong on anything Dior Coons Jr little
00:43:04
boy two and a half years old missing reported missing July 10th right and then we are spending all this time with
00:43:12
all these efforts with with lots of technology and resources up on the mountain looking for the little boy we don't find
00:43:21
him Saturday July 18th is Father's day and on this day Vernal spends the day camped out just yards away from
00:43:32
where his son air quotes disappeared from now where's the sex shop story taking place
00:43:40
so when we present everything we've got to Jessica Vernal sitting in the parking lot
00:43:48
in his car waiting on Jessica to come out one hour turns into five five hours turns into seven and then I guess
00:43:58
Jessica's mother shows up and the seventh or eighth hour and says okay that's enough we're done so she she
00:44:05
walks out uh Jessica walks out of the police station we're all just kind of we all in
00:44:11
another room watching the interview just shaking our heads Jessica walks out and gets in a car
00:44:18
and then vernals in that car now you would think after seven eight hours in an interrogation like you've never seen
00:44:26
an interrogation before they had nice people come in mean people come in they had psychologists come in I mean they
00:44:32
were really working her you would think a person would be so tired that they'd say just take me home I just want to go
00:44:40
home and take a shower I just I just I need to lay down right that's what I do I don't know about y'all and I'm a big a
00:44:48
couple glasses of wine so I'm a big strong guy carries a gun for a living I guarantee if I went if I went into that
00:44:54
type of atmosphere I mean I guarantee you I'd go home and say I'd sleep for a couple of days but
00:45:00
now they get in the car and they drive over to a sex shop they go into the sex shop and of course
00:45:08
we've got it all on video clone my winky okay they buy a product called clone my winky
00:45:17
I uh and and she's just out of an FBI interview and so they laugh and they're cutting up
00:45:25
and they're doing all this stuff well they immediately take it and take it home because there was not only we were
00:45:30
following them but the FBI was following them so it was like everybody's following
00:45:34
these people they go home and the lights go out and boom it's over for the day well we're sitting there going
00:45:42
what is this and that's when the sheriff actually got mad he said I'm telling you
00:45:49
she's some kind of narcissist and I was like she's some kind of something but you know I'm not a doctor of medicine
00:45:56
and I can't get like I can't give diagnosis but I've never seen that before even with people that were not
00:46:04
that were guilty they walk out there thinking aha I beat him again right I I've never seen that they've usually
00:46:12
walked out of there with tears in their eyes or they're red in the face or they're hungry or there's something
00:46:17
I I I've never seen that before there the both of them have a have in my opinion based upon how I've been trained
00:46:27
has some type of narcissistic personality disorder where as the sheriff said if it wasn't an accident
00:46:35
it has to be a murder or an intentional murder that's where law enforcement is right
00:46:42
now why would you hide the body why would you they don't you know why she spends
00:46:47
how many six seven eight hours an hour seven hours of actual interview time of video that we have but I'd say she'd
00:46:55
been in there for nine hours at least and and it's it's in reliving the traumatizing experience of losing your
00:47:04
child and and having no clue as to what happened to them and probably even being accused of
00:47:10
horrible things during that time period during the questioning and then to cap off the day on the way home we stopped
00:47:17
by the sex shop and uh celebrate yeah but yeah I don't know if I leaned towards that that's something wrong with
00:47:24
her more so that it's a it's like yeah but the captain's saying here is the power and control side of it right
00:47:33
Captain well yeah well yeah because what I'm saying is like you know that's an abusive tactic from from men to go well
00:47:40
in order for me to believe what you said to the cops you're going to do this sexual act for me or or whatever it is
00:47:47
so I wonder how how abusive you know verbally mentally you know that relationship was
00:47:56
um because to to me that doesn't seem like a a a a a thing a normal thing but I could
00:48:06
I could see an abusive man going okay well you know for me to believe you or or you owe this to me or whatever
00:48:14
yeah you're right on it you're right on it yep and and and I think he's in her ear you know
00:48:21
remember you go back to the video right the media video where they actually catch him saying
00:48:29
hey um you know you've got to say you've got to say in today tense not past tense and
00:48:39
she looks at him going what you know Screw you like rolling her eyes right right yeah that's a good way well I I
00:48:49
would like to see his phone records too uh to see if he he's the one calling her
00:48:55
mother to say you need to go in there and stop this uh you know what maybe I don't know
00:49:02
um you know vernal's been very interesting about his phone you know he tells us that it's the other great thing
00:49:09
Vernal I don't know if he I just don't know if he's stupid or what but we do have a audio tape of the 9-1-1 call from
00:49:18
Vernal 2911 about his son missing right and he's talking to him on the phone well I think we've kind of hinted at
00:49:27
what we have but we actually at the same time uh uh Jessica is talking to 9-1-1 right
00:49:36
saying my son's missing he's two years old well guess what we hear in the background
00:49:40
Vernal talking to 9-1-1 but he's supposed to be like a mile and a half down the road has that been released I
00:49:49
remember hearing Jessica's night one we're not really yeah law enforcements asked that not to be released because
00:49:54
that's going to be a that's going to be a huge uh that's going to be a huge part
00:49:59
of the case but everybody knows about it I mean the cops released it and said yeah this is what's happened this is
00:50:04
what's going on our original coverage of the Dior Coons missing persons case suspicious death investigation possible
00:50:15
homicide investigation case we released that in May of 2019 in episodes 305 and 306 and what Philip is talking
00:50:28
about right here in regards to the 9-1-1 calls because there were two one from Jessica one from Vernal you can hear in
00:50:37
our episode 305 timestamp 29 minutes and 38 seconds where Vernal is describing the 9-1-1 calls and that he and Jessica
00:50:50
are not in the same location when those calls are coming in these statements and what police find in
00:51:00
their investigation very quickly is that this is a discrepancy in their story that this is uh deception on both of
00:51:09
their behalfs and it sounds like vernal's 9-1-1 call has not been released to the public
00:51:16
Philip is there anything that we that we didn't touch on today that we we should
00:51:20
make clear for for the listeners in regards to this case before I don't know I think I think two things I think
00:51:28
number one I think most importantly of all of it most importantly I think that um when um
00:51:37
Vernal well I'm just going to say it this way I believe as y'all obviously think
00:51:43
um vernal's running the shop and he's letting trying to let the clock run out um and I think that that's kind of
00:51:50
interesting I think he's trying to say oh the longer goes the worse it'll be well the longer it goes I I'm sorry the
00:51:58
longer goes the better it will be the longer it goes in reality the worse it's going to be for him I
00:52:04
mean he needs to understand that no and he's got a wild card out there okay and her name is Jessica that's the wild card
00:52:13
and he can't you know now they're not married and now they they say they don't talk to each other I'm telling you right
00:52:20
now that you know one day she's gonna wake up that's the baby she birthed that's the baby that came out of her
00:52:28
uh is she the mother of the year award absolutely not she's she she wouldn't even get honorable mention but there's
00:52:37
an inherited part of a human being that knows when their child is dead they will
00:52:45
do anything it takes right it'll do anything it takes to come out of that horrible psychosis and say
00:52:59
oh my God my baby's dead I'm gonna make this better right does that make sense man I think that that's the other wild
00:53:08
card out there uh I think like I said before I'll say it again I think Jessica knows what happened and I think she's
00:53:18
keeping it underneath her skin I really and your professional opinion and your expert opinion what do
00:53:25
you think will happen well I think the sheriff up there you know there's only he's he the poor guy
00:53:34
he he has him and five deputies right that's it right and they work their butts off they work 12-hour shifts six
00:53:43
days a week and the sheriff is a dedicated guy I'll tell you what you'll never find
00:53:48
um uh you'll never find a better guy than than him and I think that he has a plan and I
00:53:57
think uh I think that he will come up with his plan uh I don't I don't want to say
00:54:06
anything about the sheriff in Lima County other than absolutely positive stuff right I just I just want to say
00:54:14
something very very positive um the media is scared now to report the case because of the lawsuit uh you know
00:54:23
uh East Idaho news who we had a good relationship with I don't think we have a very good relationship with him now
00:54:30
from what my staff is telling me uh you know they want no interest in being a part of the case now uh you know I I
00:54:38
don't know what to tell you uh about that I think the second thing is and most importantly is uh uh vernal's worst
00:54:46
nightmare is that the police officers are not going to give up just like we're not going to give up we're not giving up
00:54:51
on this child not gonna happen well we want to thank you for allowing us to be a part of your investigation and
00:54:59
informing I think it's very important and I'm just going to give you a little hint on this
00:55:07
one of the misnomers and I think you guys reported it as well is that the water runs into the small Lake up in
00:55:15
um up in ladore Idaho up at the campground it doesn't it runs out of the lake so if you if you look at the map
00:55:24
and you look at how the water runs out of that Lake it's just a it's just a snow runoff little Lake if you look
00:55:31
you'll go back and you look at Jessica Mitchell and vernal running around down there saying oh I'm fishing for tadpoles
00:55:39
or not tadpoles but little fish there's no little fish ing well thank you Phillip we really
00:55:45
appreciate your time today and bringing us up to speed on where the case stands today you're very welcome and
00:55:54
very important that's how we came upon you uh is that during our peer review uh and and uh your your uh your podcast was
00:56:04
put in there about this and we listened to it very closely and you guys do a great job thank you very much for what
00:56:08
you do for the missing [Music] thank you I want to thank everybody so much for joining us here back in the garage make
00:56:25
sure you share these cases on social media and Colonel do we have a recommended reading for The Listener well if you're
00:56:33
following the news you already know that one of the most notorious serial killers
00:56:38
to be apprehended in the last 30 to 35 years wedged right between Jeffrey Dahmer and the BTK Dennis Rader was
00:56:48
Theodore Kaczynski aka the Unabomber he was a serial killer domestic terrorist who's been locked up since 1996. Ted
00:56:58
Kaczynski was found dead in his cell the morning of June 10th with significant neck injuries and a depressed trachea by
00:57:08
the time he was discovered rigor mortis had already set in at least one source reported that Ted
00:57:14
appeared ghost-like and frail leading up to his death Ted Kaczynski was 81 years
00:57:21
old serving out a life sentence in the Colorado supermax facility but in December of 2021 Kaczynski was moved to
00:57:30
a prison medical facility many of the news outlets out there are saying the reason for kaczynski's transfer is
00:57:38
unclear however last year we interviewed true crime author Jamie Gehrig who told
00:57:44
us that Ted was diagnosed with cancer so with Ted in the news again this is a good reminder to go and check out her
00:57:51
book madman in the woods life next door to the Unabomber Jamie had the unfortunate experience of growing up in
00:57:59
the woods of Montana right next door to domestic terrorist and serial killer Ted
00:58:05
Kaczynski check out her book The Madman in the woods one of my favorite true crime books of 2022 two you can find
00:58:13
that great title and many more on our recommended page on our website truecrime garage.com and until next week
00:58:20
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