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foreign [Music] [Applause] [Music] welcome to True Crime garage wherever you are whatever you're doing thanks for
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listening I'm your host Nick and with me as always is a man with a reminder that
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the crime Aid acronym stands for Crime reduces innocence makes everyone angry I declare here is the captain yeah it's
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good to be seen it's good to see you thanks for listening thanks for telling a friend
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[Music] today we got a little leftover blueberry cobbler that's grandma fingers pastry
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sour beer with blueberries of course this is another good one from Arcane Ale Works garage grade four and a five
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bottle caps and let's give some cheers to our friends right here first up a big cheers and thank you to Cheryl and
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Kimberly British Columbia and a big we like your jib to Victoria and Virginia Beach and here's a of course we like
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your jib too Andrea white and Saint Mary's County Maryland and a big shout out to Jason and Savannah here's a
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cheers to constantinos in Squirrel Cove British Columbia and last but certainly not least we have a double cheers to Dan
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and Ruth in Republican City Nebraska thank you all for helping us out with this week's beer fun yeah b w r u n beer
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and for everything true crime garage check out our website truecrimegarage.com and that is enough
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of the BS Dance all right everybody gather around grab a chair grab a beer let's talk some true crime
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[Music] thank you [Music] where we left off from yesterday Captain is we have a young woman who was
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abducted and managed to escape her attacker when she tells police and detectives about what happened to her
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she is able to give them detailed information that lead them to a man named Robert C Hansen do you know what
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the C is for it stands for oddly enough Christian is Robert Hansen's middle name
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now Robert Hansen the general thought or what is known of this guy around Anchorage Alaska he's a family man a
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businessman and he on the surface everything the investigating officers know about Robert
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Hansen is telling them he wasn't their guy and when I say he wasn't their guy meaning
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he might have been involved in this incident regarding Cindy Paulson but he's probably not their guy for the
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other missing women and for the bodies that are turning up Robert Hansen is a family man and a successful local
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businessman he owned a bakery and when the detective ran Robert Hansen through their computer system which we need to
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point this out it's very important to point out that at this time in our timeline that this very moment the
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Anchorage police were in the process of switching to a new system so when they type in his information
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into their computer system the system tells them that Robert Hansen was clean he didn't have any police record at all
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and when the detectives started to ask around what they end up learning is that Hanson
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was known around town as a an expert Hunter and in fact he held several very impressive hunting records several world
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records for bow and arrow hunting in fact he held the world's top Mark for taking down a doll sheep by bow and
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arrow this was in 1971 for killing a Ram with a 42 inch horns he held the number two record for
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Caribou the number 12 ranked in the world for mountain goat the number 13 ranked doll
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sheep and the 34th ranked black bear I'm like 197 for killing a big ass spider so
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this is a hunter's paradise and he's a very skilled Hunter well and all we can assume is that their law enforcement
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system is not connecting them to other counties especially during this time so basically what they're saying is he's
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clean once he moved to Alaska he's clean and he's been a good upstanding citizen
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yeah the trouble the short of it Captain will be that they were in the process of
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setting up their computer system it wasn't quite finished yet and so some of the records had not made their way to
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that system well if they need again so they were not able to find them at that very moment when they're looking this
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dude up whose vehicle and plane put him at the Airfield of where this Cindy Paulson escaped from so a quick
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background on Robert Hanson he was born in Iowa in 1939 his parents with whom he
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had a difficult relationship with were very strict and often made him work long hours at the family-owned Bakery during
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his childhood he was often bullied for his stutter and severe severe acne in school he had no close friends after
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graduating high school in 1957 he enlisted in the U.S Army Reserve where he became a skilled Marksman serving one
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weekend a month and working at the bakery the rest of the time sometimes volunteering as an assistant
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drill sergeant at the police academy in the town of Pocahontas it was in the Army Reserves one weekend that Hanson
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lost his virginity to a working girl then in 1960 he fell in love with and married a local girl soon after Hanson
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burned down the school bus garage of the local high school why well it's her reason to he ever tell
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us did he ever say the reason so this is a really kind of long and weird story so
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he's working at the bakery and now mind you by this time he's graduated high school he's in the Army Reserve
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and he's an adult but he's a young adult he must be about uh 18 ish 19 at this time at this point he's a officially in
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charge of making Cinnabons yeah well this is 1960 so he would be 21. he's actually a couple years older than what
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I thought he was he's look he's working for Mom and Dad at the bakery and so when you think
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about like these local mom and pop shops you have a lot of teenagers that tend to
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work these jobs right so he's working with a couple of kids that are still at the high school they're still active in
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the high school 17-ish 18ish and he is kind of because he's older than these guys they think of him
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differently much differently than what his classmates thought of Robert when he was attending High School right his
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classmates thought of him as a giant pimple well and at the bakery he's a bit of a somebody right he's the owner's son
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he's an adult he's gone off to the Army Reserve he has life experiences he's a part-time drill sergeant at this Police
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Academy yeah so now he's missed her pimple head so he kind of creates this little Clan amongst
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the young men that worked there 16 17 18 year old boys you know they're all very
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rebellious want to raise a little hell he convinces them hey like we could go out and do some stuff
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in this little town in Iowa where there's nothing to do you know we could go out and shoot at things shoot at stop
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signs we can uh set things on fire there's ways that we can have fun be rebellious and you know cause problems
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yeah jerk off some goats so he convinces a couple of the guys that work there at
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this bakery that you know what let's get together and we'll stake some places out and we can
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do this or that or the other thing check out some goats a couple of the guys are
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smart enough to weasel their way out of these arranged Hangouts that are after hours you know they're smart enough to
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know hey if we end up doing something bad it could be bad for me so I'm not going
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to put myself in this situation one night he and one of the boys that he convinced to go with them they go to
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this garage that houses the buses that drive the kids to school so this is school property
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and he decides Robert Hansen decides to set fire to the building now there's some conflicting stories here obviously
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because we have two people that went there and they both have a somewhat different story of what happened but
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after the building burnt down and the the vehicles inside were practically destroyed as well I mean this is a big
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deal with a lot of damage a lot of a lot of cost involved in this damage well because these other guys are teenagers
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well what do they do they they run their mouth you know they're at parties or they're at school telling people hey I
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know who did this or I was involved or I was almost involved and so they're kind
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of telling the story to these other people of what happened the police and the school system really
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had no clue what happened other than they knew that it was not an accident that it was set it was an arson well
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word starts to get around town that Robert Hansen was involved in this and the kid that was with him on the night
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that they set the fire he becomes a witness and testifies against Robert Hansen so in court speak
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Robert Hansen willfully and maliciously set fire to a building this occurred in Iowa in 1961. for this he gets a
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three-year sentence in prison remember he's already married at this time his wife decides to stick with him because
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she believes going off of what Robert's telling her and everyone else hey this group of kids did it and they're trying
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to blame it on me and because somebody's willing to testify against me I'm taking
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the fall for these guys right his family believes him and his wife believes that he's innocent
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but eventually he ends up confessing to her and to his mom and dad this is while he's serving out that
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three-year prison sentence well and also you know the family business he's set to
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make some dough well you asked why it's believed that Hanson burnt down the building in retaliation for his unhappy
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high school years or it was because he hated the school's superintendent who just so happened to be good friends with
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his father Hanson's father and a regular customer at the family bakery either way
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Hanson ends up serving 23 months in a Reformatory and then is released and then successfully completed parole
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one year later so he got out early for this arson that he committed right in 1963 he remarried because what happens
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is once he confesses to his wife and to his parents she believing him this whole
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time now she knows not only did he set this fire not only is he an arsonist but he's managed to lie to me for over a
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year now she don't want anything to do with him those two split up so after he gets out 1963 he gets married again to a
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woman with whom he had two children with a girl and a boy in 1967 the Hanson family of four moved
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to Anchorage Alaska now in Anchorage Alaska this is reported that you know Hanson was well liked by the people that
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knew him and following in his Father's Footsteps Hanson opened a bakery and the business was a success now Hanson always
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had a hobby of target shooting and was pretty skilled at this and he was always somewhat a casual
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Hunter back in Iowa but Alaska is a Sportsman's Paradise so Robert Hansen became an avid Hunter well just to be
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clear it's spelled h-a-n-s-e-n not son like the famous um but multiple talented group Hanson
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either way it makes me think of that song and we need to have their beer on the show called um hops a funny side
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thing was I was at the grocery last week and that song came on and I don't care what anybody think
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that's not my cup of tea that you know their style of music but that song regardless puts me in a fantastic mood
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every time I hear it that was their Style music when they were younger there they've got they've gotten much better
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if you haven't listened to new Hanson you you might be surprised I've been trying to talk about Hanson for almost
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500 episodes once in Alaska as we already pointed out he becomes an avid Hunter breaking several hunting records
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setting several hunting records which we already listed some of his ranked records but when the detective
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started asking other detectives because keep in mind still at this point he's looking at this guy going this guy's got
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a clean rap sheet why all of a sudden out of the middle nowhere this guy picks up a woman at gunpoint handcuffs her and
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does all these horrible things to her we didn't go into detail and I didn't think
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it was necessary but it was a lengthy assault that he committed on this woman according to what she's telling the
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detective so the detective is going yeah you don't just go from being a a nice guy Family Man businessman it's a brutal
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rape yeah one day to being a monster the next so he starts asking the other detectives like hey what I'm hearing
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about this guy and what I can see on paper isn't adding up I mean there was a hammer involved about Robert Hansen
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and he's at some point when he's talking to these old skilled seasoned detectives that
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have been around for a long time he's starting to get less stories about Hansen's hunting records
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and more stories about Hanson's police record right because we said that for whatever
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reason those records hadn't made their way to their now computerized system right one detective that he asked
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immediately referred to him as bad Bob Hansen AKA man who jerks off goat so the records having not been fully
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transferred yet tell a very different story about this family man we and the successful Baker
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We already mentioned this arson fire okay but then we have a story out of 1972 or 73
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where Robert Hansen got into some bad trouble this was for two separate incidents one for attempting to rape a
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housewife and he was also caught for raping a sex worker now it's a little convoluted but
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but things seem to fall apart pretty quickly in both of these cases as they were trying
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to charge Robert Hansen with these two different crimes from my understanding Captain they are very different crimes
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especially the housewife crime because this is a weird situation and this might be his if you want to use some air
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quotes here his first sexual attack we do not know for sure but in this situation he stops off at This Woman's
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house and he says that he needs to use her phone for whatever reason that he that
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he gives her and I believe she allows him to use the phone and then he leaves without incident
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he comes back to her place like 30 minutes later yo I think the Rouge was that you know because his head's a big
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pimple is that he convinced her that a bee stung his face and that's why his face looked like that
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so he needed to call the hospital the using the phone ruse might be to make sure that she's alone in the house yeah
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or that and so he comes back 30 minutes later knocks on the door she opens up boom he's sticking a gun in her face and
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he's attempting to attack her and rape her whatever ends up going down again those
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both those stories are a little convoluted but what we end up happening at the end the result turns out to be
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that they dropped the rape charge and then reduce the attempted rape charge to an
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assault charge which Robert Hansen pled guilty to so the short of it is somehow this all
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got reduced and now Robert Hansen who has two incidents that point to him being a violent sexual offender
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he's now only serving six months in prison that's because the system tends not to believe females so this ends up
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being a conviction for assault with a dangerous weapon that's [ __ ] it was supposed to be a five-year sentence so
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they didn't let him off easy on the sentence itself but it was a five-year sentence with a
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recommendation that Hanson received psychiatric treatment it was after the six months after serving six months that
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he was transferred to a halfway house and placed on a work release program one year later Hanson was released on parole
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and parole was terminated after approximately three years yeah again two big crimes that he basically gets a slap
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on the wrist yeah more of the victims are probably traumatized for the rest of their
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freaking lives now remember this required him to receive psychiatric treatment during his time in prison
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and so during this psychiatric treatment the court ordered psychiatric treatment
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what we learn is this was this was carried out by a Dr J Landon stated that Robert Hansen
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suffered from a dissociative mental illness and suggested that Robert Hansen's criminal activity stemmed from
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that illness and stated that Hansen's type of disorder was difficult to treat successfully but a subsequent letter
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from Dr Alan Parker filed eight months later indicated that Hanson had made sufficient Improvement through therapy
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to Warrant his release on parole unbelievable so you have one doctor saying this guy's got some issues
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that we find are going to be very difficult to treat successfully and then another doctor saying at a later date
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he's been treated successfully yeah we can send him out to parole I fixed them now there's one thing that is left out
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of that little statement and that that's actually these are statements what I just read were found they're from court
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documents what wasn't in those court documents is a statement that he made during the course of the psychiatric
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evaluation where he told the doctor that during his teenage years and of course I think he's
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being a little deceptive here but he says during his teenage years he he often fantasized about doing all sorts
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of harmful things to girls and women who rejected him yeah he seemed stable that's not the end of his police sheet
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here captain because in 1977 Robert Hansen stole a chainsaw from a store in Anchorage for
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this Robert Hansen entered a plea of guilty to larceny in a building he was sentenced to five years incarceration
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with the provision that he be eligible for parole at the earliest possible date and that he received psychiatric therapy
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to case his transition back into the community now hold on a second I just want to point this out
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assault with a deadly weapon five years stealing a chainsaw five years you can't
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even begin to compare those crimes correct and keep in mind had that been had the
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theft been his first charge you know the first time breaking the law he would have got a lot less for
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that he probably would have got probation maybe one year Max but because he had had multiple offenses
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and you know they they were aware of that they're going to give him the five years for that theft charge they should
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do shock therapy on his book the way that that I want to go through that that theft charge because we have some
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detailed information on how that went down based off of the court records so this took place while Hanson was
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shopping at an Anchorage department store when a store security guard observed Robert acting suspiciously and
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the store's Sporting Goods section he watched Robert place an old sales receipt on a chainsaw box and leave it
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leave the store with it the guard apprehended Robert in the parking lot Robert Hansen described his thoughts
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leading up to the shoplifting as follows quote I looked at them and remembered about five weeks previous
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my father and I had been cutting wood for our fireplace in his remarking three or four times how much he would like to
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have one meaning a saw my folks live in Oregon and were visiting us for four weeks he wanted us
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all to use when he and my mother go camping along the coast I told my father that he would be more than welcome to
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take mine but he refused I thought of this and all the presents my parents had given me through the years and how
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wonderful it would be if I could give him a saw for Christmas I also thought of course about my life at that time my
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wife and I had just bought this summer a new home and put everything we've had saved for more than nine years into that
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home I guess many many thoughts went through my mind as I looked at the salts I wanted almost more than anything to
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please my father and could just imagine the expression on his face on Christmas Day if I could give him that saw
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I walked around the store some more and out the front door outside a man had just had a heart attack the police fire
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department and paramedics were there to give him treatment my father is 69 years old and has had
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one heart attack and is very overweight again I thought of the chainsaw and how pleased he would be to receive it at
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Christmas I walked back into the store again to the Sauls I thought there was a young man watching
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me but then he seemed to disappear on the one box that I picked up there was a sales receipt I guess this is when
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I first really seriously thought about taking the saw it seemed like nobody would know if I paid for the saw or not
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if they saw a sales receipt on the box I took the saw and walked out the door and I was apprehended and arrested
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I know what I did was wrong and I am very sorry for doing so Robert Hanson was 37 years old at the time of the
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offense and he had children he's married his family has this Bakery he's successful
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he could afford to buy his father a saw I was going to say not successful enough
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to buy a saw maybe not but the way I see it Captain is I'm seeing a guy who is manipulating those around him
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when he's fired right when he's caught when he's innocent whatever he's a man who cheats and he's a liar
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when he was caught for burning down the building he was able to convince his parents and his wife hey I'm just the
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Fall Guy didn't really have anything to do with this convince them so much so that once they
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put him behind bars they still believed him now he's standing in front of a judge at 37
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giving him this sad story about his father's in bad health and what a miracle it would be if I could just give
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my father this one gift on Christmas morning like he's Tiny Tim from Charles Dickens
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Christmas Carol or something yeah it's just too bad you can't give your dad a new son
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[Laughter] that's right Christian so what we see here I believe is a guy trying to tell this and sell this sad
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story to a judge the judge didn't believe it and that's why he ends up getting the five years
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[Music] foreign [Music] we switched over to some Uma hops tasty thank you Hanson Brothers this was
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go ahead I was gonna say you know they're they're kind of similar to us because they have they have a garage
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themselves I believe their company's got three door garage or something or three-car garage or something like that
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so I was gonna laugh because I think most people own garages but what do I know so well it's not a chainsaw right during
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this during this prison sentence and it ends up getting reduced and he doesn't have to spend the full five years but
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what ends up happening here we did state that you know he has to undergo another
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psychiatric evaluation during this time and this is when Robert Hansen is diagnosed with bipolar disorder
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and of course we got to keep in mind this does not mean what we're going to end up learning about him that's not
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typical of bipolar disorder and also given the time frame we're talking about the 70s so a lot has
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changed and fortunately we know more about things like this now than we did back then at the time he was prescribed
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lithium which I don't know if that's still something that they hand out I don't I don't know much about it
00:28:28
he wasn't required by law to actually take it but this will have this will be interesting because
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we said that he owned a plane right he owned that plane that the victim led the officers to at the Airfield right
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so he owns this plane but he was denied a license due to this medication that he
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was prescribed again no one knows if he was actually taking the medication I couldn't find anybody to say either way
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if he was actually taking it but the way that he comes about buying this plane is
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pretty interesting because in the early 1980s Robert Hansen reported a burglary at his
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home he says that thirteen thousand dollars worth of items were stolen from his family's home
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it wasn't too long after this it's a lot of chainsaws that he purchased the piper
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Super Cub bush plane yeah this is a very very tiny plane so the thought is maybe he used this money
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that he received from the insurance policy on the burglary to his home to buy the plane that's a big part of
00:29:49
the story so now we're going back to the investigation is he responsible we have
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this sex worker that we found in handcuffs a truck driver founder is he responsible for this
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he's saying no he's saying I don't know her I've never seen her before and he he I believe he has an alibi as
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well yeah he has two alibis so this makes it very difficult for the police because
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if we're going to take this thing in front of a judge and say that this guy abducted and and assaulted this woman
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but she escaped well if you put this thing in front of a judge or even a jury of his peers you
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run the risk of going well it's this Working Girl's word against this successful Family Man businessman
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who says he doesn't even know her never met her and he's got two other people that are considered to be good
00:30:48
upstanding citizens that are saying well he couldn't have done that because he was with us that night the police are
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smarter than that though they know how things work and even though they can't bring it in front of a judge yet they're
00:31:02
going to still work on Robert Hansen and so they're going to question him they want him to slip up they want him to
00:31:09
give them information that they can work with to build a case against him at the same time while they haven't
00:31:15
officially filed any charges against him for the attack for the rape and the Abduction of Cindy Paulson another body
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turns up this is a couple months later and this is Paula golding's body turns up so the police are really concerned
00:31:33
number one that they got this violent guy out that they believe are 100 percent to be guilty of what Cindy
00:31:39
Paulson said this guy did there's too much evidence to them leading them to him the problem is The Alibi
00:31:47
and Hanson doesn't really admit anything when they first interview him in fact he's a little bit rude
00:31:55
when detective flothy asked him about the attack and the sexual assault Hanson says to flothy you can't really
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rape a prostitute can you well flothy fires right back and says in this state you can so they're looking at
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this guy well I mean that statement right there shows you what kind of respect he has for women
00:32:17
well in particular the victim here in this case right and maybe the other victims that you're seeing as well the
00:32:25
missing women and the bodies that are turning up so what we have here Captain is more bodies turning up a guy that's
00:32:32
looking really good and you got a couple detectives that are saying you know what
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look at this guy's past he was a violent sexual offender before that's what he still is today we believe he abducted
00:32:44
raped and was going to kill Cindy Paulson but she was able to get away we think he's responsible for a lot of
00:32:54
these other ones the other thing too that made Robert Hansen interesting to them is that he owned a plane because at
00:33:01
least one or two of the bodies were described and we went through those articles described as inaccessible in an
00:33:08
area that was inaccessible however if you had a plane those areas were accessible right but
00:33:16
also think about it this way investigators are going okay yes we know that she's a sex worker but parts of her
00:33:22
story line up I went to this guy's house and then we went to a plane this is the guy and he has those items
00:33:31
now you have these two Alibis so that's when the investigators are going to go hey somebody's lying so
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we're gonna we got cracked down on somebody and like I said her story is making some
00:33:44
sense so they're going to go after his Alibi well and keep in mind too I mean yeah when they find her when police find
00:33:51
her she was still handcuffed she was still beat up yeah the scene to me is like the
00:33:57
end of Texas Chainsaw Massacre the first one where she runs out onto the road and
00:34:02
she's screaming and yelling and comes across that uh semi truck driver the problem though too then becomes people
00:34:10
that are familiar with cases such as this one well not such as this one but such as the Cindy Paulson case of her
00:34:18
Escape let's say there are plenty dozens hundreds thousands of cases where a dancer or a working girl gets beat up by
00:34:29
a boyfriend or a pimp and blames it on someone else that happens happens all the time police don't suspect that here
00:34:37
but that's where it could easily go to in the minds of people that are tasked with the duty of determining Robert
00:34:45
Hansen's guilty or not right guilt or not and you have these other people that are saying well he couldn't have because
00:34:52
he was with us that night we'll get into that in a minute but what we're going to
00:34:57
have here is very interesting because the police decide well let's build a case against Robert Hansen he's our guy
00:35:04
if we all think that he's our guy let's surveillance him let's watch him let's build a case against him well what do we
00:35:11
need to do let's forget about the the rape and the abduction as far as Cindy Paulson's concerned we can always Circle
00:35:18
back to that let's try to connect him to the murdered victims or to any of the missing women so let's build our case
00:35:26
against him that way one thing that they do is they reach out to the FBI in Quantico and they actually didn't think
00:35:34
that they were going to have any good result with with this they just made a simple phone call and said hey this is
00:35:39
what's happening here in Anchorage we got these women missing turning up dead this is how they're found oh and by the
00:35:45
way we got a guy that we like for this Roy Hazelwood who we reference in the trailer
00:35:50
was the man that picked up the phone the FBI agent that picked up the phone he tells the officer the detective he says
00:35:57
don't tell me anymore I don't want to know who your guy is tell me about the victims and how you're finding them Roy
00:36:03
Hazelwood starts to shoot off back and he says I bet you your guy is like this and I bet you he does this and he's
00:36:09
about this age and this is where he lives he's probably married he's probably successful he's probably known
00:36:15
in the community he's telling them everything that they already know to be true about Robert
00:36:21
Hansen Hazelwood says you know what take this to the local FBI get them to sign off on it and we will
00:36:31
send you some agents okay so this next part is from the Criminal Minds fandom page which is an odd and unexpected
00:36:38
source for this week's case but turned out to be a very good source the information is real good and laid out
00:36:43
nicely so I was happy to find it there's a paragraph that says the Alaskan investigators began looking into Hanson
00:36:50
again and contacted the FBI who sent in their profilers this was according to the site here Captain says John Douglas
00:37:02
but some sources say it was Roy Hazelwood they profiled that the killer would have low self-esteem a history of
00:37:08
rejection by women and be an experienced Hunter they also correctly predicted that he
00:37:15
would take souvenirs from his victims and would have a stutter so let's examine this for a bit and
00:37:22
clear up any of the Douglas versus Hazelwood bit as well for the record the Phantom page is citing sources so they
00:37:29
don't have anything wrong they are just simply citing other sources right so they included both
00:37:36
which I think is very responsible they say it was either Roy Hazelwood or John Douglas that helped the Anchorage police
00:37:42
and the state police the Alaska state police with this case yeah I agree it's good that they put both of those in
00:37:49
there so first off anyone that has listened to the show for a long period time know that John Douglas and Roy
00:37:55
Hazelwood are the two FBI agents that we have talked about more than any others by far yeah Hazelwood was my nickname in
00:38:03
high school we referenced quoted and explored their Works countless times they are both ogs when it comes to the
00:38:10
FBI's BSU they work together and relied on each other's work at time and expertise plenty as have we I can see
00:38:21
why this part is confusing and the short answer is because they both worked on the case
00:38:27
so it makes sense that you would see Douglas's name and or Roy hazelwood's name the other truth about the FBI's
00:38:34
profile is that in this case the FBI was only brought in after local law enforcement already identified who
00:38:43
they believed to be the Killer which is pretty rare right the in this case the Alaska State
00:38:50
Troopers and the Anchorage police pretty much knew or had that gut feeling that Robert Hansen was the one that was
00:38:57
killing women again in fact they were calling him bad Bob Hansen but they needed some experts to help
00:39:06
them secure a search warrant for bad Bob this would be to search his home his plane and his three vehicles that he
00:39:14
owned at the time so FBI agents John Douglas and Jim horn were sent from Quantico out to Anchorage
00:39:23
to assist the Alaskan authorities attempted on more than one occasion to get a search
00:39:28
warrant for Hanson but needed more ammunition as the D.A wanted to make sure that the courts
00:39:36
wouldn't find that the police were going on a fishing Expedition right saying hey we think this guy's killed
00:39:43
all these people we're just going to go in and toss his house and search the plane and hope to find stuff that lead
00:39:49
us to building a case against him right so John Douglas and Jim horn shipped out
00:39:56
to Anchorage brought in to put together a psychological and behavioral profile of
00:40:03
the offender well one of the things that I think about Hanson and it's such a a t-ball shot you know put the ball on
00:40:11
the tee and hit it out of the park because we we know that he's a hunter and that he collects trophies and he
00:40:18
collects uh parts of the animals as trophies so if he's killing multiple women why wouldn't he keep souvenirs or
00:40:27
trophies of those kills as well well and really what they wanted was to say you know what we brought in these
00:40:35
outside experts who on their own put together their own psychological profile of who the offender would be what his
00:40:44
behaviors would be personality would be and then we can take that and say you know what they created this
00:40:50
independently we're telling the judge hey look this matches Robert Hanson this matches the guide that we've been trying
00:40:57
to go after and we can't get a search warrant for and so once they have that they also
00:41:02
want something else from the FBI these guys have worked these type of Serial cases
00:41:07
so these guys can put together a list for them a very specific items that they need to include on their search warrant
00:41:16
when they go looking for items at his home so in general that was really the main
00:41:22
job of John Douglas and Jim horn to put together the search warrant information items they were searching for and the
00:41:30
profile on the suspect that would commit these types of crimes this all works and
00:41:37
the D.A goes for the search warrant judge grants the searches they're going to go
00:41:43
hunting let's say at Robert Hansen's house now where Roy Hazelwood comes back into play Not
00:41:52
only did he answer the call and encourage the local authorities to pursue the FBI to get involved was at
00:42:00
some point during this case John Douglas he's hospitalized and this is for quite some time
00:42:08
and it took place during the Robert Hansen case Douglas nearly died from stress and you texted me a couple weeks
00:42:15
ago and said hey I'm seeing stuff saying that they're working on season three of
00:42:19
mine hunter look at the time frame that we're talking about here yeah this would line
00:42:25
up with where they kind of left off on season two they might start working the Hanson case in season three and we'll
00:42:33
see Douglas's character in the hospital at some point yeah again so Douglas is nearly down for the count so Roy
00:42:42
Hazelwood is sent in to cover for Douglas and what he's going to do is he's going to prepare the detectives
00:42:49
that will be interviewing Robert Hansen after his arrest he's going to be telling them hey these are the tips and
00:42:57
things that you can use to try to get a confession from him or if you can't get him to willingly confess
00:43:04
here's some tactics that you can use to get him to slip up and give you information that you need
00:43:11
unwillingly Captain before we move on too far while we're passing around some credit we need to make sure that we give
00:43:18
a big batch of it to Alaska State Trooper detective Glenn flothy an Anchorage PD officer Greg Baker both
00:43:26
flothy and Baker were extremely determinated to catch whoever it was that was killing these women and burying
00:43:34
them out in the woods determined these were the guys that suspected Hanson was the right guy when others were
00:43:40
dismissing him and they didn't treat the victims alive or otherwise any differently than they
00:43:47
would any other citizen of the community here's what they wanted to do Captain and this is genius because they're like
00:43:55
you know what if we can find items that are rape and assault victim says she saw in this man's house
00:44:04
the gun that he used on her and other items that he used on her that's going to be enough for us to really take this
00:44:12
to the next level the next level is put this case in front of a grand jury that's where those false Alibis will
00:44:19
come back into play and we'll Circle back to that but the other thing that they wanted to do detectives aren't
00:44:25
stupid they see that this guy he filed this insurance claim for thirteen thousand dollars and then in pretty
00:44:32
quick turnaround buys an airplane uh okay well when you submit your report to the insurance company
00:44:42
you have to submit an itemized list of everything that was stolen from your property
00:44:48
you now have an abduction and rape victim who says I was in the basement and she's describing items that he had
00:44:55
put on that list of things that were stolen from his home so now you have an insurance fraud
00:45:02
charge that you can bring against this guy so when you have trouble convincing a
00:45:08
room of people that this man is a serial killer who's killed dozens of women what what is the best thing for you time
00:45:20
time will be on your side but you're afraid he will be killing other women in the process or could be destroying
00:45:27
evidence in the process so if we can lock this dude up on anything the insurance fraud charge the rape charge
00:45:36
the abduction charge let's get him on that put his ass Behind Bars and build a case against him while we have him
00:45:43
locked up sure enough they get into his home they start seeing things that he says were
00:45:51
stolen from his house that he received insurance money for yeah I mean this goes as a criminal on multiple levels
00:45:58
he doesn't really care for anybody's concern other than his and make sure that he's getting ahead
00:46:04
the thing they really wanted to find was that 223 Ruger Mini 14 which is the gun
00:46:11
that they found the shell casings near a couple of the buried bodies so they were hoping to find that in this
00:46:19
search they would eventually find it and the other thing that comes about is now
00:46:25
they are taking this case to a grand jury so they can go back to those two guys who say that I was with Robert
00:46:32
Hansen that night he couldn't have abducted and raped this woman and they can say you know what you told
00:46:38
us that story now here's your subpoena you go tell it to a grand jury and if later we can prove
00:46:46
that you are lying you will be doing time yourself well how quickly they change their
00:46:53
stories neither of those men were with Robert Hansen that night liars pants on Fires I
00:46:59
want to say that they got a couple search warrants and looked through things and didn't find anything and then
00:47:06
they went got a couple different search warrants and went back because they didn't find anything like
00:47:12
just like out in the open I think they were coming up empty most of the time and then they found
00:47:18
like some kind of hidden area in his addict or something like that well you're you're exactly right
00:47:26
um now but it's a little confusing because think about the search warrants in general they are seeking items that
00:47:32
would be involved in different charges related to different incidents things that took place at different times right
00:47:39
so some of the items they are finding out in the open these would be the items that he claimed were stolen during the
00:47:45
burglary the house burglary right because he's he's very fond of his trophies his hunting trophies and a lot
00:47:53
of the valuable items that he says were stolen from his home are in fact those hunting trophies that he's got mounted
00:47:59
to the walls so not only were they out in the open they were on display and he was proud to show them off so they find
00:48:06
those right away but all that's going to get you in court is a charge for this insurance fraud they want charges of
00:48:13
murder rape and abduction and you're exactly right they're not finding the the guns and the torture weapons or
00:48:21
dirty shovels or anything like that out in the open that would lead them to be able to bring forward those types of
00:48:28
charges what they end up finding and it's a weird situation because and it's really great that Roy Hazelwood was able
00:48:36
to kind of school these detectives and and prosecutors and how they should be communicating and
00:48:43
talking and interviewing Robert Hansen because what they do is they bring him in
00:48:51
for interrogation at the same time that they're searching his home his property and his Vehicles well it's a great time
00:48:59
to bring him in because he would know that they're searching so he's going to be constantly worried the whole time
00:49:05
that they're asking him questions what are they finding well and the stutter and I don't want people to email me I
00:49:11
don't know the science of any of this but in this situation what they're going with is that the man's stutter seems to
00:49:19
be directly related to how nervous he gets how out of control a situation gets for him and when he's uncomfortable when
00:49:27
he's nervous when the stakes are high he stutters he can't control himself he reacts
00:49:35
and so what they wanted is just what you said captain let him know we're searching his
00:49:40
properties let's bring him in let's question him at the same time while the the heat is already cranked up to 10.
00:49:47
and what they get are some information because as you said they're turning up empty-handed with the items that would
00:49:54
lead them to the more severe charges the charges that they're really they really
00:49:58
care about they don't really care about the insurance fraud other than to jam them up long enough to bring these other
00:50:03
charges they end up finding through some of his own words Robert Hansen's own words that he has a false wall at some
00:50:12
at some place in his home it might have been the basement might have been the attic might have been both
00:50:16
and inside of that false wall he had hid things like guns that he had used and things that he had used to
00:50:24
rture some of these women they also found an aviation map which was really interesting because it
00:50:31
had several things marked on this map and I believe it was about 21 or 20 or so things marked on the map
00:50:42
having found this they already know where some of the bodies were recovered the bodies that they've recovered are
00:50:49
matching up with some of the marks that Robert Hansen made on this map they know Robert Hansen made these marks
00:50:57
on this map because he said he told him where to find the map and where to find these other items they're in the false
00:51:02
walls the gun they were looking for is this uh 223 Ruger Mini-14 that they know was
00:51:10
used to kill a couple of the victims they didn't find it in any of the properties that they were searching
00:51:16
because it was in his boat which was in fact on his property but they didn't have a search warrant for the boat this
00:51:24
so that's where they had to go back and get a search warrant for the boat they couldn't afford to anything being found
00:51:30
in the boat to be thrown out of court at a later date so this [ __ ] turd had a plane and a boat
00:51:39
yeah but keep in mind it is Alaska so like plane ownership is a lot more common there and these smaller planes
00:51:48
and they're small it was a small boat it was like a yacht no it's still a [ __ ] turd
00:51:55
in the end when they find the gun and run ballistics they are able to come back and tell him you know what this gun
00:52:04
your which was his prized gun which oddly enough the profilers said he would have this very close relationship with
00:52:13
the the murder weapon and he would value this over many many other items in his possession
00:52:21
he would treat it with a certain high intensity level of care when they said to him look we've we've
00:52:30
connected the bullets from your favorite gun to four of the victims that's when they get a confession
00:52:36
from Robert Hansen and it's a pretty long one but I have reviewed it and the short of it is
00:52:46
basically he's saying that women that work the streets women that work as dancers they're not good people and so
00:52:55
it didn't really matter that he killed them that he should be allowed to do whatever he wanted with
00:53:03
them because they're not the same as you and I or everybody else so they don't have the same rights as he
00:53:13
does oddly enough he doesn't consider himself to be a bad person or didn't at the time of his arrest which is
00:53:20
completely bizarre giving his police record and what he was out doing all those years yeah but it was fixed
00:53:28
with therapy and he would end up pleading guilty to this in the court of law and he ended up receiving a life
00:53:37
sentence plus 461 years so he was never going to get out and then part of that plea bargain now
00:53:50
Alaska does not have the death penalty so that was never going to be an issue but part of that plea bargain was he was
00:53:57
going to have to tell the officers where they could expect to find the remaining
00:54:03
victims right but but he would never be charged with those crimes he could only be charged with the four murders correct
00:54:10
that he was confessing to he was charged with four murders convicted of four murders one of them
00:54:16
is including Annie who's never been identified he doesn't know who she was or claims that he doesn't know who she
00:54:24
was and he was also charged and convicted of the insurance fraud as well as the abduction and assault on Cindy
00:54:32
Paulson so that's how you get a life sentence plus 461 years he confessed to 17 murders overall they recovered all of
00:54:41
those bodies there still are some bodies that have not been recovered uh and I'm getting a little confused I
00:54:48
shouldn't say they recovered all of the 17. police believe that he's probably responsible for 21 or more murders
00:54:56
and they think that the reason why he wouldn't confess to some of the other murders goes back to his original
00:55:01
confession that some of the women weren't working at a show bar or weren't working the streets right and therefore
00:55:09
for whatever reason we've gone through this time and time again with these serial killers their confessions don't
00:55:15
always make a lot of sense sometimes they make up higher numbers sometimes they really downplay it down and I'd
00:55:21
also say possibly in this case there would be victims closer to the age of maybe 12 to
00:55:29
14 and a lot of times you'll see serial killers not willing to admit that they they killed a child
00:55:36
yeah the missing women that they have that are still outstanding to this date are of the age range of the the previous
00:55:44
victims that we've already discussed part of that you wonder if they were just left out in the open or tossed into
00:55:51
the river which is a little bizarre that he didn't use that time and time again these other crimes he was not willing to
00:55:59
confess to those for whatever reason detectives were also very concerned and remember we saw this in the BT key the
00:56:06
BTK case as well how can you have this serial killer operating for years and years and years
00:56:12
living with his family and nobody else knows about what he's out doing and so one thing that they had to do was
00:56:20
Interview his wife extensively not telling her what they're going to charge him with because they wanted to
00:56:28
be able to determine if she had any clue of what old bad Bob Hansen was up to what they discovered is that she
00:56:38
traveled a lot she was a good person she had no clue of what he was doing he was
00:56:43
doing almost all of this while she was away on travel with the kids in fact in a lot of these murders he
00:56:50
called them his summertime projects which she would be out traveling for the summer I believe she was a teacher or
00:56:59
something and had the Summers off but she also even tried to help the police once she was aware of what he was
00:57:09
guilty of once he confessed she even helped them try to locate some more of his items that he may have concealed
00:57:16
somewhere or buried on their properties so she was just another victim in this long story of Robert Hansen but this guy
00:57:26
again he's you know he's Beyond a monster because not only was he raping these individuals to take it individual
00:57:34
out and give them a head start here I'll give you a knife or maybe I don't give you a knife
00:57:40
maybe I'll leave you handcuffed maybe I take the handcuffs off but I'm going to hunt you down like an
00:57:46
animal that's what they really should have done they should have got him to confess and then they should
00:57:54
have said hey by the way we're going to take you out to the field where where we found a body and they should
00:58:00
have just said hey uh Robert we're going to give you a Little Head Start and uh we'll be coming for you well and that's
00:58:06
one thing that they were able to determine Captain was in the earlier murders he was killing the victims
00:58:12
elsewhere and then bringing them to the burial sites in the later murders he's all wrapped up and in love with
00:58:19
this hunting it's like well why not combine the couple things that I love the most right
00:58:26
abduct this woman a lot of the physical attacks the the rapes and such sexual assaults took place at his home and then
00:58:35
the the ruse of oh I take these women to the cabin out in the middle of nowhere that's he's just putting them in a plane
00:58:42
so he can land that thing and go hunt them out in the wilderness and then bury them where he kills them
00:58:48
and I want to be very clear about this we told this story in the trailer about General Zaroff who if you were able to
00:58:56
elude him for three days and get away from him and his hunting dogs that he would set you free and he gave them a
00:59:04
knife and some food and a three-hour Head Start that's not the case with Robert Hansen no he's he's hunting women
00:59:12
who he lets out of his airplane who in many cases are naked still handcuffed and sometimes even blindfolded so it's
00:59:22
not like this guy was giving them any type of fair situation at all to get free he was setting up a system
00:59:31
and stacking the deck against them so he could hunt them for fun with no worry that they were going to get away
00:59:38
no sickening exactly and I think some of the words from The Trial really sum up Hanson the best and this is from the
00:59:49
closing statements before he was sentenced to that lengthy prison sentence and this is coming from the
00:59:56
prosecuting attorneys and they're talking about the victims and Robert Hansen and they say 17 may not be the
01:00:04
end of it meaning there could be more victims we feel from what we've learned that there might be more bodies out
01:00:10
there and then the prosecutor points to Robert Hansen and says before you sits a
01:00:16
monster an extreme aberration of a human being who has walked amongst us not even his wife of 20 years had any
01:00:25
inkling of his dark evil side his crimes numb the mind Alaska serial killer Robert Hansen who
01:00:34
killed as many as 21 women maybe more died around 1 30 a.m August 21st 2014 at an Anchorage Hospital the cause
01:00:46
of death appeared to be that he died of natural causes Glenn flothy a retired Alaska State Trooper who was
01:00:55
instrumental in Hanson's 1984 capture said quote on this day we should only remember his many victims and all of
01:01:04
their families and my heart goes out to all of them as far as Hanson is concerned this world is better without
01:01:12
[Music] foreign [Music] thank you so much friends for joining us here again in the garage
01:01:33
I'm getting right up in your ear if you need more True Crime garage check out our other show our bonus show called off
01:01:41
the Record if you're nasty and that's on Stitcher premium Colonel do we have any
01:01:46
recommended reading this week this week we are recommending death on Ocean Boulevard inside the Coronado Mansion
01:01:53
Case by Caitlin Rother this is perfect timing as well to recommend this book because this case is coming up on the
01:02:00
10-year marker now this unfortunately is one of those True Crime Mysteries was it
01:02:05
murder or was it suicide Rebecca zahau's family believes she was murdered as investigators found conflicting evidence
01:02:12
of Foul Play in this book author Caitlin Rother explores all the theories that point to Foul Play and brings out some
01:02:21
new details about the case check out death on Ocean Boulevard find that title and many many more on our recommended
01:02:28
page at truecrime garage.com again friends who can't thank you enough for joining us here every week in the garage
01:02:35
and until next week be good be kind and don't let it [Music]