00:00:00
Oh, hey. Love your shoes. If you're hearing this, this is your sign to try those on. Trust us, you can totally pull
00:00:07
them off. In fact, try on every shoe here if you want. We won't stop you. In our house, you've got unlimited freedom
00:00:14
to play. And hey, fall is the perfect season to do, wear, be whatever you want. And with tons of shoes that get
00:00:22
you at prices that get your budget, we'll give you something to brag about. So go ahead, try them on. Let us
00:00:28
surprise you. [Music] Heat. [Music] Hey, Heat. [Music] [Music] In the early 1970s in Soma County,
00:01:36
California, young women and girls were turning up dead. homicide victims discarded by the killer or killers as
00:01:43
detectives put it like trash. Many of the crimes were similar in both nature and victimology.
00:01:51
Despite an extensive investigation, the killer or killers remain unidentified to
00:01:57
this day, and loved ones of the victims are still awaiting justice. Among the victims, all of the women were
00:02:06
last seen hitchhiking in and around Santa Rosa in Soma County in the North Bay area of California.
00:02:15
The remains of all of the victims except for one whose body has never been found
00:02:20
were discovered in rural areas. The victims were found nude, their bodies discarded near creek beds and at the
00:02:28
bottom of steep embankments in an area northeast or east of the city. A single gold earring was often present at the
00:02:38
crime scene. Police believe that the perpetrators of the Santa Rosa murders had interviewed potential victims before
00:02:46
killing them. This is thought to mean they assessed their victims based on certain characteristics, behaviors, or
00:02:55
vulnerabilities before committing the crime. If their suspicions are true, this means
00:03:03
that the killer or killers very likely and even perhaps on more than one occasion let some unsuspecting
00:03:10
individual go free as they did not fit their preferred criteria for a suitable victim.
00:03:18
One should consider themsel very lucky to fall short of this benchmark. This is true crime garage.
00:03:33
[Music] Sonoma County located in the Bay Area of Northern California is home to the
00:03:44
prosperous and vibrant city of Santa Rosa. This is wine country and God bless them for that. California's wine
00:03:53
country. Today, Soma County has more than 425 wineries, ranging from small familyrun
00:04:01
operations to internationally acclaimed wine houses. And this great county is host to more than 8 million tourists per
00:04:11
year. But back in the 1970s, the city of Santa Rosa was undergoing transformative change. This is thanks to
00:04:22
urban redevelopment at the time and the city was growing in terms of population as well, but it was still surrounded by
00:04:32
classic small town America in rural areas. The 1970s saw a significant rise in violent crime such as assault, rape,
00:04:43
and murder from prior decades. The decade also has the dubious distinction of being at the forefront of the golden
00:04:52
age of serial killers. The term serial killer, most likely coined by former FBI agent and profiler Robert Wrestler,
00:05:00
first entered the conversation in 1974. During this time, the country saw an extraordinary surge in cases involving
00:05:10
offenders who committed multiple murders over extended periods of time. While operating in the shadows and eluding
00:05:18
capture, notorious figures like Ted Bundy, John Wayne Gasey, the Zodiac Killer, and the Son of Sam dominated
00:05:25
headlines, creating a culture of terror that rippled through our society. The breakdown of the 1950s style traditional
00:05:34
family unit coupled with the economic turmoil caused by urbanization and the energy crisis combined to create
00:05:43
an environment where serial killers could operate more freely. Sophisticated forensic technology had yet to be
00:05:51
invented and the absence of a system supporting coordination among the various law enforcement agencies and
00:05:58
jurisdictions contributed to the inability to track and capture these serial offenders. Within society, the
00:06:08
fear of violent crime became widespread, influencing pop culture and media alike.
00:06:15
But here in Soma County, the bodies dumped in rural areas were piling up and adding up. They were finding bodies in
00:06:24
creek beds and steep embankments. First, it was the missing girls, Marlene Sterling, age 12, and Yavon Weber, a 13,
00:06:34
two middle school friends who disappeared on February 4th, 1972, after leaving a local ice rink. But their
00:06:41
remains weren't found until 10 months later in December of 1972 on France Valley Road. Then there were the
00:06:50
hitchhiker murders. Kim Wendy Allen, age 19, an art student who frequently hitchhiked. She was last seen on March
00:06:58
4th, 1972. Her body was found the next day in a creek bed, and she had been sexually
00:07:04
assaulted and strangled. Someone who never came forward, never identified, mailed the victim's missing checkbook
00:07:14
from a post office in Kentfield. This 20 days after her body was recovered. The distance between these locations is
00:07:23
approximately a 40 to 60 minute drive from where she was found to where the checkbook was
00:07:31
mailed. And again, that checkbook mailed in Kentfield, a location very close to where she worked at a grocery store in
00:07:39
Larks. Janette Kamahle, age 20, a college student who was last seen hitchhiking on April 25th, 1972.
00:07:48
This near Highway 101. Her body has never been found. Lorie Lee Kursa, aged 13, a runaway who disappeared in
00:07:57
November of 1972. Her remains were found in a ravine off a Kalisogga road in December of 72. Remember this victim,
00:08:06
Lori, was found tied up in a very specific and unique way. Of these five victims, Janette of course presumed a
00:08:16
victim as she's never been found. But after the two girls bodies were found 10 months later, the two missing middle
00:08:23
school girls, it was then that police were pretty much convinced that the four confirmed murder victims along with the
00:08:32
missing hitchhiker Janette Kamahle were possibly and probably linked. Whether the murders were the result of a
00:08:40
single perpetrator or multiple asalants, they could not confirm nor 100% agree. We talked a lot about the Press Democrat
00:08:49
newspaper that covered this case and these victims, their cases extensively over the months that the investigation
00:08:59
dragged on. In one article in particular, Soma County Sheriff Don Stripek reiterated his belief that these
00:09:06
unfortunate young women had in fact fallen prey to the same killer or killers, citing the similarities between
00:09:14
the victims. All four of the found victims were found nude. Their bodies had been discovered at the bottom of
00:09:21
steep embankments off of desolate country roads. Two of the girls were known to routinely
00:09:28
hitchhike, and the other two were deemed likely to have accepted a ride. Clothing and jewelry known to be worn by
00:09:37
the victims were not recovered at any of these crime scenes. But in the case of Kim, Moren, and Yavon, that weird little
00:09:47
detail of a single earring found at each of the scenes. While it was true that the cases of death varied, the
00:09:56
determination of how these victims were killed, strangulation for Kim, a broken neck for Lorie, and an undetermined
00:10:05
manner of death for Marine and Yavon. The sheriff says, "You know what? That's not going to rule this out because what
00:10:12
they're seeing here, Captain, is very similar crime scenes where the victims are found and also very similar ways
00:10:20
that the killer or killers are procuring their victims, finding their victims, going to the ice rink, offering a ride,
00:10:32
perhaps hitchhiking. Those two, we did have the witness saying that maybe they were hitchhiking or seen hitchhiking
00:10:38
later. I am of the belief that whoever that guy was that was talking with them at the ice rink was probably a person
00:10:46
that was able to get them into a vehicle willingly and pretty easily. But then the other victims known to have been
00:10:53
hitchhikers and known that they were going to be hitchhiking on the day when they were last seen. While some of the
00:11:01
members of law enforcement, including high-ranking officials, felt that the cases were unrelated,
00:11:08
you could argue this day and night, and I'm sure that they did. And the reason for that is there's simply not
00:11:14
enough evidence, physical evidence to go beyond just gut instinct to make a clearcut determination
00:11:24
one way or another. Now, we know that regardless if they were agreeing or not, the investigation ramped up and as it
00:11:32
should, they decided that a group of up to eight investigators would be focusing on the what was dubbed
00:11:41
the hitchhiker murders, as well as sharing information with neighboring counties in an attempt to crack the case
00:11:48
wide open. I don't know what their strategy was at the time. They were not openly discussing their strategy for
00:11:58
this team, this task force, if you will, that was put together working these homicides. If it were me, and we've
00:12:08
talked about this in some other cases, especially we go way back in the garage archives to when there was no arrest.
00:12:17
Rex Huraman, nobody knew who he was at the time, but when we were talking about the Long Island serial killer case and
00:12:25
there was so much debate as to what victims, what cases within that were in fact related to it or belonging to and
00:12:37
having been killed by the same perpetrator. We said the same thing or at least I did here captain was I am of
00:12:44
the belief that the the best way and the most clear concise way to avoid confusion would be to work these cases
00:12:57
independently. And here you have a unique situation where yeah we have the five victims. One never
00:13:07
found of the four remaining victims. Two of them are found together. So you know
00:13:12
they were last seen together. Their bodies are found together. Those cases are absolutely connected.
00:13:18
>> Right. >> And I hate to say this because you know I believe every victim deserves a voice.
00:13:23
Every case should be worked to its fullest. But also, time is of the essence here, right? You are working
00:13:31
under a deadline. And pun intended, I guess I'm not trying to be funny here, but the deadline is the longer your
00:13:38
investigation drags on, the longer that you don't find this maniac or find the persons who are responsible, very likely
00:13:45
you're going to end up with another dead girl. So, you are under the gun, you are
00:13:49
under the clock and behind the eightball, my friend. So, what what you got to do is you got to start making
00:13:55
strategic moves. My move would be to other than information coming in to you, ignore the missing girl case. Sorry, but
00:14:04
I I have to give some direction to this investigation. I have eight investigators. I I'm going to take six
00:14:12
of them and put them in in pair them up, right? So, I got three sets of two. I want two detectives working the missing
00:14:20
girls case, Marine and Yavon, who were eventually found 10 months later. I want two detectives working independently
00:14:28
on Kim Allen's case and I want two detectives working independently from the other cases on Lorie Lee Kurs's
00:14:37
case. That leaves me with two detectives left. I want one detective who is responsible for taking in all of the
00:14:49
tips, all of the secret witness tips that might come in, all the phone tips that come in, people dropping by the
00:14:57
sheriff's office to submit information. I want just one person fielding all of that. Because what happens is if you get
00:15:06
all these detectives, all eight of them in the same room, the phone is ringing off the hook. They're picking it up at
00:15:11
random. Captain, it's your turn to answer the phone. I took the last one. You start really muddying the waters and
00:15:18
and adding unnecessary confusion and chaos to your investigation. I want one detective fielding all of the incoming
00:15:27
information and it is their job to hand off that information to the appropriate channels. What investigation does it
00:15:36
belong to? The two missing girls? Does it belong to Kim's case? Does it belong to Lor's case? And if it belongs to the
00:15:42
missing girls case, take the information and give it to the captain of the homicide unit who should be overseeing
00:15:50
all of these detectives. And then my remaining detective will be in charge of constantly reaching out to the
00:15:57
surrounding jurisdictions, looking for similar cases, looking to talk to anybody that may have information that's
00:16:05
coming from outside of our county lines. As the captain of the homicide unit, it's about delegation, coordination, and
00:16:12
management. And again, I don't know how they were working it. That's how I would
00:16:18
have worked it. >> Would you give like daily pep talks? Yeah. Well, so that that's that's
00:16:23
interesting, right? What what I think that's a a fine line, right? When is there too much of us of a huddle, right?
00:16:31
Let's huddle up and let's share what we know. I think I think there can be a situation where there's too much. And I
00:16:37
think that again makes it more tricky than it needs to be because here's the thing and thank God they got some great
00:16:44
detectives and great uh uh leadership that eventually came in on the Long Island case and and they have an arrest.
00:16:52
Recently, an update in that case, it was determined in court that Rex Herman's defense council wanted to make it so,
00:17:00
hey, when I go to trial, you're trying me for each one of these homicides separately,
00:17:07
not all together. >> Right? >> After some court hearings, the judge ruled, "No, we're going to every murder
00:17:13
he's charged with is going to be present at that trial. We're going to have one trial for all of these murders. let the
00:17:19
jury decide which ones he is in fact guilty of. >> Yeah. But I think that goes in the
00:17:25
prosecution's favor because you're then having a mountain of evidence. >> Absolutely.
00:17:32
>> And that's probably bad for Rex because in some of these cases they don't have
00:17:37
much of anything other than maybe a hair sample. >> You're right. And what's going to
00:17:42
happen, I think there is it's going to become a totality of evidence situation, which most cases do, but here it won't
00:17:50
be for one single murder like you just said. It's going to be, oh, here's this evidence for this murder. Here's this
00:17:55
evidence for that murder, and let's pile it all together, and now he looks like he has to be this giant ogre monster
00:18:02
that was killing petite women for many years right underneath our nose. Well, I think the other thing that's scary is
00:18:09
not just will we find another victim because the killer could move. >> Exactly. >> The killer could stop. The killer could
00:18:19
go dormant and without DNA evidence, without cell phone data evidence. But my my pep talk would be like, "Hey, look, I
00:18:30
want you out there kicking nuts and sucking butts. I need somebody to get a nice
00:18:37
>> That's assault. >> Yeah, but hey, any means necessary. I need somebody collecting some good
00:18:44
coffee and collecting some good donuts. And uh let's start off this day with a dark cup of coffee and a nice [ __ ]
00:18:51
The the thing here why this tactic in my mind works is that you don't have to have any great
00:19:02
understanding or agreement that these cases are connected. If you work them independently,
00:19:12
you should end up with the same result is what I'm getting at. Whether they're connected or not, right? If as long as
00:19:17
you track down the killer of one of these victims, if they are in fact then later connected,
00:19:24
you will start seeing that connective tissue much more clearly. Once you have a suspect in one of these cases, you're
00:19:32
going to start going, "Oh, wait. Uh this your suspect in the two missing girls case matches the description of what the
00:19:43
eyewitness said uh of the Caucasian man with the afro in the van that was seen picking up one of the other girls. You
00:19:50
can you see what I'm saying here? It's don't allow it to be whether or not they're connected to complicate your
00:19:59
investigations. work them like you would any regular homicide investigation. That's what you know how to do. That's
00:20:06
what you're good at. That's what got you to being captain of the homicide unit. So, work it like that. And if they are
00:20:15
connected, you'll start to see that after an arrest has been made. If they're not connected, worst case
00:20:21
scenario, you've solved one or two of these homicides where here we sit today 50 years later and none of them have
00:20:31
been solved. >> The only way I'm becoming chief of police is through nepotism >> or it sounds like you're into butt
00:20:38
sucking. Um, >> well, no, no, I I wasn't into butt sucking. I was ordering the butt sucking
00:20:44
to be done. >> You're delegating. >> Let's be clear about that. So, let's let's take a quick I want to take a
00:20:51
quick brief look at this because there is a lot to get to still here with this case. But the the victims that we
00:20:59
haven't reviewed recapped yet here today is Carolyn Davis, age 15, a runaway who
00:21:06
disappeared while hitchhiking in July of 73. Her body was found about 2 weeks later on France Valley Road. Remember
00:21:14
this is the one captain where she was found near Sterling and Weber, the the two missing girl victims where they were
00:21:22
discovered. So she died, Carolyn Davis died of strick nine poisoning and was and there was some kind of symbol that
00:21:29
was found near her body. So if you're looking at this one, whether these are linked or not or what
00:21:37
have you, this one's a this one's a no-brainer to me. It doesn't, you know, the simp I think it's probably connected
00:21:47
to the two missing girls due simply to the very close proximity that some reports say 4 feet, 3 yards, 10 ft
00:21:56
to the other bodies that were previously found with the two missing ice rink girls got to be linked.
00:22:04
And I really wish that we had some good information as to whether or not there would have been any reason to believe
00:22:11
that this victim, Carolyn Davis, what you have here with Caroline's case that's different from your two missing
00:22:18
girls case, remember they weren't found for about 10 months. So you're very limited on what you can tell about the
00:22:24
body, what you can tell from the body, and the evidence that would be collected at that scene. Carolyn Davis is found
00:22:32
about two weeks later in that same location. So, you have a much better, much higher likelihood of learning more
00:22:40
about her body, what was done to her, and so on, and the evidence that was found at the scene. I wanted to know and
00:22:49
it would be helpful to know if the experts that worked this case at the time if they had any reason to believe
00:22:57
that Carolyn Davis was restrained or tied up prior to or during her death because we will see signs of that with
00:23:08
other victims. >> Right? So if you're looking for linkage, that would be a way to connect now three
00:23:15
murders to probably two others, at least two others. So that's because we have Teresa
00:23:22
Walsh, age 23, last seen hitchhiking in Malibu in December of 73. She was found hog tied and strangled,
00:23:31
submerged under a log in Mark West Creek just a few days after she went missing.
00:23:37
Again, if you're looking as to what is linked and what is not due simply to the hog tied and strangled victim,
00:23:47
Lorie Lee Kursa, age 13. Remember, she was found tied up in a very specific manner. Hog
00:24:01
tied in a very specific manner. Terresa Walsh found hog tide in a very similar specific manner. That's why I want to
00:24:10
take a look at those previous three and is there anything any indicators that Carolyn Davis was tied up, restrained or
00:24:19
tortured using liatures prior to or during her death. Now we talk about restrained, we talk about tied up,
00:24:28
strangulation. One thing that is often overlooked with these ligature and binding cases and this is trying to
00:24:37
crawl inside the mind of the monster here is constrictors. There can be a constrictor element to
00:24:46
the torture. Less for strangulation, more for constricting. Again, this means something to the killer. It's part of
00:24:55
his art. The fantasy is of his design. The signature is whether he can control it or not is another aspect to examine
00:25:06
here. Then we have the Soma County Jane Doe. Okay. So this is many years later in July of 1979. The skeletal remains of
00:25:20
a young woman were found about 100 yards from where Kursa was discovered. Again,
00:25:27
you have what? 6 years had passed. 7 years. So, seven years had passed and now you're getting this repeat in your
00:25:38
case where you're finding now an unknown victim six to seven years later 100 yards from
00:25:46
a previous victim. Well, we've seen that m movie before, haven't we? We've seen that movie before. And remember, we
00:25:53
talked about how police and the FBI believed that this killer likely would want to play games with police and taunt
00:26:03
them. And placing Carolyn Davis's body near the two missing girls bodies, that's a taunt. That's a tease. Finding
00:26:12
Jane Doe's body in 79, 100 yards from where Lorie Lee Kursa's body was found. This is very similar. So what's one
00:26:23
thing about her? So she's found hog tied as well. Again, it goes back to these liatures. These cases are starting to
00:26:30
look more and more connected as you go. This victim's found hog tied. She wore hard contact corrective lenses.
00:26:40
This was an indicator to the experts at the time that her death likely occurred between 1972 and 1974.
00:26:50
This is really interesting. They're basing this simply off of the idea of when these kinds of these specific
00:26:56
contact lenses that were found that when they were manufactured and when they were sold and available to the
00:27:04
public, they weren't available prior to and they stopped selling those and moved
00:27:09
on to I guess I guess if these are hard contact lenses. I've never had to wear lenses but or contacts but they must be
00:27:17
soft. You know, I've seen them. They they they appear to be soft today, but it sounds like in 1974, 1975 at some
00:27:24
point they started manufacturing and selling soft contact lenses. And so they're basing this information off of
00:27:32
that idea of, hey, this is this is a piece of physical evidence that we found on our person on our victim here,
00:27:39
>> right? >> This is an indicator of who she may be when when the murder occurred and when
00:27:46
she was placed here. The 1970s was the golden era of hitchhiking, especially in the state of California, and sick
00:27:55
monsters were using this to their advantage to play out their twisted, torturous fantasies. Just ask Ed Keer
00:28:03
next time you're at Vakavville. Keer at this very same time that we're discussing here, this very same time as
00:28:12
our Santa Rosa cases, he was down in the Santa Cruz area driving up and down the
00:28:18
roads looking for pretty young college women to get into the small cabin of his car where he took up so much space. You
00:28:26
do not want to have to fight a very large, powerful man inside of a phone booth. And that's what he did between
00:28:34
May 7th, 1972 and February 5th, 1973. He simply plucked them off the street. Thumb or no thumb, he would slow down,
00:28:43
pull over, and offer up a friendly gesture of, "Hey, do you want to lift?" Or maybe even more sly, "Hey, where you
00:28:51
going?" Keer picked up five hitchhiking college students and one high school student and took them to isolated areas
00:28:58
where he shot, stabbed, smothered, or strangled them. He then took their bodies back to his home where he
00:29:05
decapitated them, engaged in acts of necroilia with their corpses, and then dismembered them. Of course, we talked a
00:29:13
lot about Old Edward during our examination of the Minehunter Show, but despite the dangers and high-risisk
00:29:20
status of hitchhiking, travelers, especially students, were still seeking the cheapest mode of transportation by
00:29:27
using their thumb to catch a ride. It could never happen to me. getting into a vehicle that they had never seen before,
00:29:33
driven by someone they had never met. Then only after it is far too late, regrettably learning that hitchhiking
00:29:40
was anything but free. [Music] [Music] Most people think that home security is just an alarm that goes off after a
00:29:58
break-in, scaring the intruder off and getting a neighbor's attention if you're lucky. But that's a reactive approach.
00:30:05
By the time an intruder is inside of your home, it's too late. Your feeling of safety is shattered. That's why you
00:30:13
should trust Simply Safe. Their system is designed to be proactive, not reactive. They use smart AI powered
00:30:21
cameras to identify threats lurking outside of your home or business and immediately alert Simply Safe's
00:30:28
professional monitoring agents. They access two-way audio to confront the person, let them know that they are
00:30:36
being recorded, they're being filmed, trigger sirens and spotlights to scare them off, and request police dispatch
00:30:43
when needed. all helping to stop the break-in, stop the intruder while they are still outside of your home. That's
00:30:51
why I love Simply Safe. It's a double layer of protection. You get the AI powered cameras with the professional
00:30:58
monitoring. And let me tell you from experience, their monitoring agents are better than other services and security
00:31:04
systems that I have had in the past. It's a better system at a better price. Check out Simply Safe for your home or
00:31:12
your office. Get peace of mind. Visit simplysafe.com/gage to claim 50% off a new system. That's
00:31:20
simplysafe.com/g. There's no safe like Simplysafe. At Designer Shoe Warehouse, we believe that
00:31:28
shoes are an important part of well, >> everything from first steps to first dates, from allnighters to alltime
00:31:36
personal bests. From building pillow forts to building a life for all the big and small moments that make up your
00:31:43
whole world, DSW is there. >> And we've got just the shoes. Find a shoe for every you from brands you love
00:31:50
at bragworthy prices at your DSW store or dw.com. >> This message is sponsored by Greenlight.
00:31:59
In every crime we cover, money is an invisible thread. Sometimes the motive, the trigger, or even the desperation
00:32:07
that pushes someone over the edge. Financial stress can turn ordinary people into criminals. And a lack of
00:32:14
financial literacy makes victims more vulnerable. That's why teaching our kids about money isn't just smart, it's
00:32:21
essential. Greenlight is a debit card and money app for families. It's a safe way to teach kids and teens about money,
00:32:29
preparing them for bigger financial decisions later. Give your kids a financial education many of us didn't
00:32:35
get. Join millions of parents already using Greenlight, the number one family finance and safety app. I love
00:32:42
Greenlight. My family loves Greenlight. My favorite thing about it is my nieces and nephews can come over, do some
00:32:49
chores for their phone uncle, and I can pay them directly through Greenlight. It's the financial education I didn't
00:32:56
get growing up. It would have taught me some discipline and a better understanding of money. It's something I
00:33:02
wish they taught through schools, but they don't. So, give your kids and your family members the tools they need with
00:33:08
Greenlight. Start a risk-free Greenlight trial today at greenlight.com/g. That's greenlight.com/g
00:33:16
to get started. greenlight.com/g. Check out greenlight.com/g today. All right, we are back. Tall cans in the
00:33:38
air. Thanks for joining us here in the garage. Cheers to you, Colonel. >> Cheers to you, Captain. The captain's
00:33:44
right. If you see a tall can sitting there, grab it. Open it up. >> Take a picture.
00:33:48
>> Toss it in the air. >> Put it in the air. >> Keep your hand on it when you put it in
00:33:52
the air, though. >> Yeah. And then uh >> don't really TCG for life. And then look at the odd
00:34:00
stairs that you have to deal with after that. But u >> Yeah, but also make sure that you open
00:34:05
your can first before you help your buddy open his can. >> That's right. That's right. Airplane
00:34:11
rules always in effect. Months would pass. The police are getting no closer to solving the case. We talked about
00:34:18
Sheriff Don Stripic who openly speculated as to whether the Santa Rosa murders were the handiwork of a serial
00:34:28
killer. In April of 1975, the local news there, they're showing footage of press conference that was
00:34:37
held by the sheriff's office regarding these Santa Rosa murders. In this press conference, they're
00:34:46
discussing at least six or seven young women who were confirmed victims who had been murdered while hitchhiking around
00:34:55
Santa Rosa between 1972 and 1973. Stripic affirmed his belief that there were possible connections to up to 13
00:35:05
other unsolved California murders. A reporter explained that Stripe had been consulting with an investigator and we
00:35:13
talked about this in our second part of this. They were looking into witchcraft teachings
00:35:21
because of a symbol that was found and I I don't know why I did that. This is an
00:35:27
audio show. You can't see that I made air quotes with my fingers. a symbol that was found at one of the scenes
00:35:34
which they believed had some type of tie to potential English witchcraft, meaning
00:35:40
that it was a symbol meant to speed the deceased to the afterlife. This would be
00:35:46
interesting if you're looking at some of what serial killers have said over the years. While still unidentified, the
00:35:56
Zodiac Killer referenced gathering slaves for the afterlife, meaning his victims would become his
00:36:03
slaves. BTK talked about gathering slaves for the afterlife. And even Edund Keer talked about it. Is it something
00:36:13
you think they hear from other killers and then they adopt that ideology or is it something
00:36:21
that maybe is playing, you know, almost as if this is some kind of mental illness? I think you're right.
00:36:29
I think it's I think it can be both. Okay. I think maybe the rationale of it might be pointed out to them by another
00:36:39
killer where they're like, "Oh, well, that makes some sense." But I think you're more on to something here with
00:36:45
the mental illness part of it. And and to be clear, this is not, you know, a victim
00:36:53
of mental illness. This is this is psychotic mental illness of, >> right? You know, Ted Bundy said this not
00:37:04
only points out his own narcissism, but it also points to what he thought of the
00:37:10
rest of us. He said something. It was, and I I don't want to pretend to have the the quote
00:37:17
here in front of me, but it was something to the effect of, you know, there's millions of girls out there.
00:37:25
What does it matter if one of them disappears? What does it matter if one of them is killed?
00:37:31
There's millions of other girls out there. There's millions of people on this planet. What does it matter if one
00:37:37
of them is killed? >> Well, part of mental health is an individual thinks of themsel as less than. Those
00:37:45
are the individuals that we need to help. when an individual has a mental illness that they think others are less
00:37:53
than. Not even just less than themselves but less than human and they shouldn't have
00:38:00
humanity towards those humans. Those are the ones that we might not be able to help and those are the ones that we
00:38:07
might need to lock away. Yeah. And so Zodiac claims he's collecting slaves for the afterlife.
00:38:14
Ed Keer said something he he his description was a little bit different and I don't have that in front of me
00:38:21
today but but interesting that he would say something similar and then but but there's also no reason to believe that
00:38:30
somebody like Ed Kemper would not have followed the Zodiac case when when that was going down especially considering
00:38:38
they live in the same state >> right >> and we know Keer's fascination with police police work. So he there I would
00:38:46
wager Franklin that he followed the case. Then you have somebody as sick and twisted as Dennis Rder who I think
00:38:54
sometimes what gets lost in the whole story of Dennis Rider or at least people's perception of him as a killer
00:39:02
or serial killer is that he he's also a pedophile. Very much a pedophile. While he has a lot of adult victims, he's not
00:39:10
above being a pedophile. I mean, his first murders of half of the Otto family were two children and the parents. And
00:39:22
later he would tell Katherine Rams and his correspondence with her that he always thought of the four of the Oteros
00:39:31
as his slaves. And this is what a sick effer this guy is. He's he's saying that they're forever his slaves. That the
00:39:41
children are his sex slaves. The boy and girl children are his sex slaves forever
00:39:46
for eternity. And that Joseph Ouro, the the father, is his manual labor slave to
00:39:53
do all the work for him in the afterlife so that he so that he can be king raider
00:39:58
and not have to do anything. And the the mother, the murdered mother who he killed would be a similar type of slave
00:40:08
but doing more female type work. These are his words. Don't read them as mine. Please God, don't read them as mine. But
00:40:16
it's that God complex of, oh, I did and I can and I will. I have the ability to take your life and
00:40:25
end your life here in this moment. I am God. And I think that's why it's not much of a leap, right, to go from I am
00:40:33
in control of whether you live or die, your existence to that, oh, you you're my slave now. I forever
00:40:42
own you. >> Oh, I think he's probably wrong about that. >> Yeah. Yes. Yes. He's he's he's very
00:40:48
wrong about many things. These guys often are. All right, let's examine this this symbol that was found. There is
00:40:55
reporting out there and that I can't confirm this to be exactly the case, but it sounds like the this was simply a
00:41:04
stick symbol, sticks put together, which we've talked about this in other cases can simply be happen stance. Mother
00:41:11
nature is in control. We are not. She could have placed those sticks there with her infinite power completely
00:41:18
randomly. Or in this situation, there were two boys that came forward that said that they had they were playing
00:41:25
around and and set those sticks in that manner. Didn't have any meaning to it. It was just something that they had did.
00:41:32
And that they believe that they had done that while they were in the area many months before that body was even found
00:41:39
there. And it just so happened to be lying near the body when the body was eventually found.
00:41:46
>> Right. So most of the time >> be a nothing burger. >> Exactly. And I I am of the belief that
00:41:52
90% of the time these things are nothing burgers. We talked about a profile. The
00:41:59
profile again a lot of this stuff looking like maybe not all of these cases but a lot of them could be
00:42:07
connected and reason to believe that they could be connected. The profile developed by psychologists depicted a
00:42:13
male offender who possessed at least a high school education, grew up as a loner, had a doineering mother, likely
00:42:21
deeply hated all women in general. As a child, this offender would have tortured
00:42:28
and killed animals, perhaps strangling or even poisoning them. Has long-standing mental problems. possesses
00:42:36
a savior complex to the point that he believes he's doing the world a favor by murdering these young women and he would
00:42:45
be of the type to want to play games with the investigators, taunt the investigators and tease law enforcement.
00:42:54
Rubbing the the murders in their face, rubbing it in their face that they cannot solve them or find him.
00:43:01
The other thing that we talked about a little bit beyond the hitchhiking nature of some if not all of the victims here
00:43:10
is the the single earring that was found at several of the scenes. Not all the scenes, but at several of the scenes
00:43:17
seems to be some kind of marker or some kind of tell of this killer to point out
00:43:24
to police, this is me. I'm still out here. I'm still doing this. I'm still doing my thing. You're doing your thing,
00:43:30
but you ain't caught me yet. >> Well, it's interesting because I think this profile is probably pretty similar
00:43:36
to the Zodiac profile. >> Similar to Zodiac, similar to BTK. Yes. Where with Zodiac,
00:43:44
I would push and say that the the game was more important. The game to him was equally as important as the murders.
00:43:54
where with BTK and with this perpetrator, it appears to me that the murders are probably far more
00:44:03
significant, at least with this guy, right, >> than than the taunting and the playing
00:44:08
of games with police. You know, Raider really ramped up his teasing the police and making a name for himself in the
00:44:16
media when more when he was not killing than when he was actively killing. This guy seems
00:44:25
to be doing it because like because he can, but the but the kill is a large part of it. And then with the exception
00:44:32
of one or two of the victim, I mean, we had the one victim who was found hours believed to be hours after she was last
00:44:40
seen disappears less than a night, one night's time. these other victims because of the the delay between when
00:44:50
they're last seen and when they're eventually found. There's that leaves the door open for the possibility that
00:44:57
this person was taking them elsewhere or had the ability to keep them somewhere,
00:45:03
even if it's in a van, and do some things. There's elements of torture here where the Zodiac killings were quick.
00:45:13
strike, strike and kill where BTK wants to be alone with the victim. I see some of that here with the hog tying and the
00:45:22
very specific way that these victims were tied up in some of the cases. That takes a lot of time and it takes
00:45:28
privacy, but it could be escalation if this is the Zodiac. And also maybe if this is the Zodiac, maybe you just got
00:45:37
tired of publicly taunting law enforcement and just thought, I'll I'll kill these individuals. I'll place
00:45:44
items. Let's say hypothetically this is the Zodiac. Then you go, well, do you really want to cause attention to that
00:45:52
you have moved and are killing in a different location? >> Yeah, the Zodiac's a tricky one. And I
00:45:59
think that, you know, everything that you're setting up here is a lot of the reasons why at the time there were
00:46:06
people who did think that there was a connection. There were even people in law enforcement, as we discussed in the
00:46:11
the earlier episodes on this case, that there's a direct connection here. part of that because of in those tauntings
00:46:18
and in those communications from the Zodiac, this is the Zodiac speaking. He says that he's going to change the way
00:46:25
that he kills, that he's no longer going to announce his killings and that uh going forward it will be up to the
00:46:32
police to to determine if they were connected or not. I'm not going to say that this wasn't the Zodiac and I'm not
00:46:38
saying that he is incapable of change, but I I kind of believe that that his we talked what did we do five episodes on
00:46:48
the Zodiac and and he's crept his way into many of our other cases throughout the years and when we talk about
00:46:55
actually I think I can think of seven at least seven or eight episodes on Zodiac
00:46:59
over the years. But I've always believed with Zodiac that the game was so important to him. the teasing was so
00:47:06
important to him, the the being known, the Zodiac name. I I don't know that he would be able to to let that go.
00:47:14
>> Yeah, maybe. Or the Does the legend of the Zodiac become less than if you change your location
00:47:23
and change the your manurisms and and and how you're committing these crimes. same year that the profile was released,
00:47:33
there was an FBI report that was issued that same year and it was titled Unsolved Female Homicides and an
00:47:39
Analysis of a Series of Related Murders in California and Western America. And this was from the US Department of
00:47:47
Justice, Federal Bureau of Investigation. This report outlined the suspect the suspected
00:47:56
connection between the six established Santa Rosa hitchhiker victims and the eight possible victims that they were
00:48:05
attributing to the same killer. So this 75 report issued by the FBI is stating that there are 14 unsolved homicides
00:48:17
between 72 and 74 that they were working and believe to have been committed by the same
00:48:25
perpetrator. And of course that includes the the victims we've already discussed.
00:48:30
One of these victims that they cite in the report was Rosa Vasquez, a key punch operator for a hospital in the Prescidio
00:48:40
of San Francisco. If you want ties to Zodiac, well, there's your tie. San Francisco, the Prescidio.
00:48:48
She's last seen there May 26, 1973. I I do want to while we're talking about cases that are connected or or if this
00:48:57
is all the same killer, I do want to circle back to something that you had picked up on early in this case that
00:49:04
that is quite insightful here and quite uh >> some would say genius. >> Yes. I f I find it in incredible that
00:49:13
that you had picked up on it because this is something that's just not discussed in a lot of these in this case
00:49:18
in particular, but not in a lot of cases when we're talking about the last known
00:49:23
date day of the week when some of these victims were seen. The the first three victims, the two missing girls who go
00:49:33
missing the same night and the third victim all go missing on a Friday and a Saturday. And you had pointed out it's
00:49:40
the weekend, right? That's that is the time where it's like more likely that people would be out hitchhiking. There's
00:49:48
people moving around. And when we first had that discussion, I was quickly looking at it from the victim standpoint
00:49:56
where the the girls happened to be at the ice rink. And the next victim, she hitchhiked to and from work every
00:50:08
day that she worked. And so that for her, it wasn't out of necessity that it's the weekend that she needs a a
00:50:16
ride. It's more out of necessity that she needs a ride because she's going to from work. You're looking at it from a
00:50:21
smarter perspective of the perpetrator's perspective, saying, "Well, if you know,
00:50:27
if I only have limited time to go out and try to find a victim, I'm going to do it when when there's more victims,
00:50:34
potential victims out there, >> right?" >> And so, it would stand a reason that it
00:50:39
would you would think that it would be more common, more people out there with their thumb in the air on a Friday,
00:50:45
Saturday, and easier to find a victim. No different than a hunter going out to a field or or a large property to see if
00:50:55
there's animal activity there prior to going out and actually setting up camp and and and and commencing the hunt.
00:51:06
When we >> dig everybody has bills, so it's more likely that the killer would be working
00:51:12
during the week as opposed to the weekend. And if I'm correct and this killer needed some time because we do
00:51:21
see torture playing out with some of these victims, obvious torture with some of these victims. So that requires a
00:51:27
certain level of time. It also requires a certain level of privacy. And if that is in fact what he is doing and maybe he
00:51:35
did it in every case, it's obvious in some when it when would he likely have more privacy and more time, like you
00:51:46
said, when he's not required to be somewhere, when he's not required to work. to take that a little further down
00:51:53
the road. It gets difficult gets dicey with some of these victims because we don't have a great confirmation on when
00:52:01
the last day they were seen. We get with some of the victims it's simply a month.
00:52:06
With some of the victims, it's it's within this week. So, we couldn't really pinpoint. I wanted to dig through these
00:52:13
victims and look to see was there any kind of consistency on what days the victims were getting picked up and there
00:52:22
wasn't. But that doesn't mean that your analysis doesn't still hold significance
00:52:28
here. It absolutely does. And it's almost the flip of that where it may be suggestive that this ind individual has
00:52:38
is not bound to the typical work week. Maybe this individual I is is in control of their time, their schedule. Maybe
00:52:47
this individual their job, the nature of their job, their occupation is that they
00:52:53
are driving around, that they are out on the roadways anyway. And and that's interesting to look at because at the
00:53:01
time back in 737475 one thing that they were openly discussing was could this be some kind
00:53:07
of utility worker? A person that has that's stuck in a van or a truck hour after hour, day after day driving around
00:53:17
fixing, repairing, troubleshooting problems that's out on the road. and seeing these people, seeing these young
00:53:25
women frequently out on the road walking, hitchhiking, and has the ability to do this on or off the clock
00:53:34
because there is no supervision for what this individual does. The other thing it
00:53:40
could point to too is, you know, we see some victims that we can confirm last seen on a Tuesday, can confirm last seen
00:53:47
on a Wednesday. This may also be suggestive that we are in fact talking about different killers, multiple
00:53:55
killers that are not working together. Rosa Vasquez was last seen on a Wednesday, May
00:54:02
26, 1973. Her lifeless body was found 3 days later on May 29th at the Golden Gate Park.
00:54:11
This in San Francisco. She was 20 years old at the time of her death. She had been strangled and tossed into some
00:54:19
shrubbery several feet off of the road. A month later on June 10th, the body of 15-year-old Yavon Quillin Tang was found
00:54:28
in a vacant lot in Bay View, California. She was pregnant at the time and she had
00:54:36
been on her way to the grocery store when she was met with foul play. Then we have 16-year-old Angela Thomas of Daily
00:54:45
City, California, was found deceased on July 2nd, 1973. She had been smothered to death and left on the playground of
00:54:53
the Benjamin Franklin Jr. High School. She had last been seen walking away from the Prescidio in San Francisco at
00:55:01
approximately 900 p.m. A locket was discovered near the crime scene. Just a few weeks later, on July 15th, the
00:55:09
lifeless body of radiologist Nancy Gidley, age 24, was found behind the gym of George Washington High School in San
00:55:18
Francisco. The victim, who had previously served in the Air Force, had been strangled. Nancy was nude, and the
00:55:24
only item recovered from the scene was a single gold earring in the shape of a fish. We've seen that movie before,
00:55:30
haven't we, Captain? Witnesses said she'd last been seen alive at a nearby roadway in motel only three days prior
00:55:39
to the discovery of her body. It would later emerge that Nancy, who had traveled to San Francisco from her home
00:55:45
in Idaho, had lied to her family about the reasoning for her trip. The reasons for her trip. She had told her family
00:55:53
members that she was going to San Francisco to be an attendant at a friend's wedding. and this turns out not
00:56:00
to be true. So, she's traveling. She's out on her own and somehow me it met with foul play. It's not difficult to
00:56:09
believe that she was in need of a ride. Just days later on July 22nd, 23-year-old Nancy Fusy of Sacramento,
00:56:19
California disappeared. She was the mother of five children separated from her husband. She vanished after a night
00:56:28
out of dancing at a nightclub called the plumbers's hall. Terrible name. Fishermen discovered her nearly nude
00:56:36
body at 6:30 a.m. alongside Pleasant Grove Road and Steel Head Creek in Reading. Her clothing was recovered at
00:56:45
the scene, which is not something that we've seen at the other crime scenes. Nancy had suffered 29 stab wounds.
00:56:52
Again, not consistent with the other crime scenes. Nancy had last been spotted alive a couple miles from the
00:56:59
nightclub about three and a half hours before the discovery of her body. So very quickly her body is discovered
00:57:05
after she's last seen. There were shoe prints and tire tracks that were found near the body, which of course is
00:57:12
telling the police that this probably is just a dump site and that Nancy was very
00:57:18
likely killed elsewhere. Things fell quiet into the fall when 21-year-old Laura Albbright Odell of San Francisco
00:57:26
was reported missing in November of 73. 3 days later, so she's reported missing November 4th. 3 days later, her remains
00:57:34
were discovered within some bushes behind the Stow Lake Boat House in Golden Gate Park. Bushes in Golden Gate
00:57:42
Park. That's something we've discussed before as well. Laura's hands had been bound behind her back and she had been
00:57:51
strangled to death. In addition, the young woman had sustained serious head injuries. But this Santa Rosa connection
00:57:58
to San Francisco, I mean, it's only there's only 55 miles between them. And what's the best way to go between San
00:58:08
Francisco and Santa Rosa? US 101. So >> yes, we >> we see the 101 mentioned time and time
00:58:18
again with the earlier victims, the 72 to 73 victims. And keep in mind, one of our victims
00:58:26
worked down near that area in Lockur, but was later found up near Santa Rosa. And and what's weird about her case was
00:58:38
she was hitchhiking attempting to get to travel northbound from Locker up back to
00:58:45
the Santa Rosa area. Right. So I mean there's there is things to and reasons to connect these and obviously
00:58:56
this is a statement from law enforcement where they're starting to connect these.
00:59:00
They're not saying 100% they're all connected. They're saying until we can figure out otherwise,
00:59:07
we have to look at these all all of these cases because of the similarities that they could be possibly connected.
00:59:14
What I think I'm seeing here, Captain, is I think not not to spoil the show here, but
00:59:25
I do think that some of these are connected. I just don't know that all of them. It seems like a lot of activity,
00:59:31
almost too much activity for them all to be 100% connected. >> Yeah. But we've seen with other
00:59:38
investigations where they just lump a bunch of crimes together and then if they solve one or two, they go,
00:59:45
"Well, it was most likely committed by the same person, but we don't have evidence of that." It's almost a way
00:59:52
that they can clear the books faster than they should. Well, and here they've not done a good job of closing any of
00:59:59
the books because we're sitting here, right? Books are piling up. >> They're not focused on on busting nuts
01:00:07
and sucking butts. >> That's how that's how you get things done. >> Jensen would tell you that. So,
01:00:13
>> yeah, Jen Jensen, >> let me throw one out to you that they included in this report that I think is
01:00:21
very dissimilar from all of the cases that we've talked about. So it's all it's so dissimilar that I wonder why
01:00:29
they even included it in the report. Okay, so this goes from January 31st, 1974. So it falls into the timeline into
01:00:40
the time frame and the location also falls into the general area where we're talking about. So I get why you why you
01:00:48
would bring it up, but listen to the report on this. Brenda K. merchant, age 19. Victimology age is very similar. She
01:00:57
had dinner at the apartment that she shared with her boyfriend. His name is George Stewart. They together have a
01:01:04
young son, a baby, an infant son. After dinner, as the report goes, George left the apartment around 6:00 p.m. He comes
01:01:15
home the following morning. George returned to the apartment to find his girlfriend. She's still in her night
01:01:22
gown, lying in a pool of blood in the living room. She's dead. Had been stabbed over 30 times. The
01:01:31
baby, thank God, is okay. Was fine, untouched, sleeping in his crib. Despite all of these stab wounds, Brenda had
01:01:40
actually died of exfixiation. She suffocated, choking to death on her own blood.
01:01:45
There was a bloody handprint that was found at the scene. what we don't ever hear. I I wanted to find Could you
01:01:52
please somebody, God and Moses, somebody show me and tell me that that bloody handprint, that partial print, that you
01:02:01
were able to determine that it did not belong to the husband because we know the murder took place in the apartment.
01:02:08
We do understand that he has a alibi for the time in question, but this to me screams
01:02:20
of a domestic situation. We have the neighbors all reporting that they had heard yelling, screaming, arguments
01:02:29
going on between 900 p.m. and midnight. And then George returns the next morning
01:02:36
to find his poor wife killed, baby untouched. I want to know, nowhere in this report does it say that he was
01:02:44
ruled out. But wouldn't that be the implication here if you're choosing to include this in your batch of
01:02:55
victims that died at the hand of an unknown, unidentified perpetrator? >> Right. I I don't This one to me smells
01:03:04
of a bad alibi. Unless you can tell me that that's not his handprint. Nowhere did they ever that's that would
01:03:12
seal the deal that it's not that it's not him. But nowhere ever in 50 years of reporting has anybody said that. So that
01:03:24
one I that one I would push to the side. My apologies to Brenda Kay and her family, but push that one to the side
01:03:31
for the sake of what we're discussing here today, the Santa Rosa cases. 1974 July also saw the finding of the remains
01:03:41
of 14-year-old Donna Braun. The teen's nude, strangled body was found floating in the Selena's River.
01:03:49
Her remains were discovered by a crop duster plane pilot at around 700 p.m. on September 29th,
01:03:58
1974. So, she went missing July 29th. Remains found several months later in September
01:04:07
of 74. She had last been seen leaving home at 2 a.m. by her mother. Investigators have not ruled out the
01:04:14
notion that Donna, who they thought to be a runaway, had actually known her killers, but also considered the
01:04:21
possibility that she had been a victim of a serial killer. So, that is also one that you might be able to push aside
01:04:29
with their pointing out that she may have known her killers. Okay, so let's Doc Brown our way ahead to 1978.
01:04:36
This would be more than three years after the press conference and the release of the FBI report. And again,
01:04:42
police were no closer to solving the mystery of the murdered and missing women. After 1975, the killings had
01:04:48
seemingly stopped and gradually fear began to fade from the public consciousness.
01:04:56
But residents would again become panicstricken when two more teens, this is Carrie Anne Graham and Francine Marie
01:05:04
Trimble, went missing from their Santa from the Santa Rosa area. On December 16th, 1978, Carrie, age 15, and
01:05:12
Francine, a 14, vanished after leaving home to go shopping at a Santa Rosa mall. They lived in Forestville,
01:05:22
California. Their decomposed bodies would be discovered the following July about 80 miles north of Forestville.
01:05:30
Their remains were discovered together at the bottom of an embankment in a heavily overgrown wooded area beside a
01:05:37
remote section off of Highway 20, a dozen miles outside of the city of Willlets.
01:05:48
[Music] Stick around for our conclusion of the Santa Rosa murders. If you need more
01:06:00
True Crime Garage for your ear balls, check out our bonus content on Apple Podcast or on Patreon. And until the
01:06:08
next episode, be good, be kind, and don't litter. Heat. Heat. [Music] Ah, DSW, birthplace of the humble brag.
01:06:53
Here, the shoes are so good, no one would ever know how little you paid if you didn't go telling everyone that is.
01:06:58
And with never ending options for every style, mood, and occasion, all at really
01:07:03
great prices, we'll definitely give you something to brag about. So go ahead, stock up on fresh sneakers from your
01:07:08
favorite brands or try those boots you always secretly knew you could pull off. Find the shoes that get you at prices
01:07:14
that get your budget at DW stores or at dw.com. Let us surprise you.