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offer today [Music] [Music] welcome to shrew crime garage wherever you are whatever you're doing thanks for
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listening I'm your host Nick and with me as always is a man with a very important
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reminder that it's going to Bay May ladies and gentlemen the [Laughter] captain so
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somebody's got some bad Hooch it's good to be seing and good to see you thanks for listening thanks for telling a
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Kickstart your warm weather Vibes garage grade four out of five bottle caps and let's give some thanks and praise to our
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grab a chair grab a beer let's talk some true cry [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music]
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o in June of 1985 detectives and sheriff's deputies searched a large Ranch property in wileyville
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California this property would be referred to as the death camp by both police and the local media they were
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looking for victims here both alive and evidence of homicide victims in a shelter located behind the
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residence authorities discovered a secret room in the back of the bunker posted on the wall was a list of
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typewritten rules that read I must always be ready to service my master I must be clean brushed and made
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up with my cell neat I must never speak unless spoken to unless in bed I must never look my
00:05:16
master in the eye but must keep my eyes downcast I must never show my disrespect either verbally or silent I
00:05:28
must never cross my my arms or legs in front of my body or clench my fist and unless eating must always keep lips
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sealed I must be obedient completely and in all things I must obey and without question or
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comment I must always be quiet when locked in my cell I must remember and Obey any
00:05:56
additional rules told to me I must understand that Disobedience any pain trouble or annoyance caused by me to my
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master will be grounds for punishment outside of the shelter detectives found a sign that
00:06:14
read if you love something set it free if it doesn't come back hunt it down and kill it this it's true crime garage
00:06:26
[Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] o this week we are going to start off this story by going to a tiny little
00:06:55
town called Pho California pho is Tiny in both total area and people Pho is just 2 square miles and as of 2020 the
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population is just 319 people where we pick up this week's True Crime Story it's
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1982 and I would guess that the population would have been about the same back then on Thursday April 29th
00:07:23
1982 the Federal Bureau of Investigation came to Pho and it's roughly 300 residents looking for one guy in
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particular and that man was 21-year-old Charles chitat in but this was not just for a friendly check-in you
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know the old hey how are you doing house tricks no the FBI was there in Pho SWAT
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team raid style this is a guns drawn kick iny door checkin they were there to serve a federal fugitive warrant we got
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one dozen FBI agents dressed in camouflage uniforms and four Menino County sheriff's deputies
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surrounding a house at Indian Creek Ranch looking for Charles ing he's a federal fugitive from
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Hawaii ing was wanted in connection with the theft of a cash of automatic weapons
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that he stole from the federal government the FBI SWAT team captured Charles ing that day as he attempted to
00:08:28
flee out the rear door no shots were fired no one was hurt there were guns found at this location ing was taken to
00:08:37
meno County jail and then transported to Federal facilities in San Francisco a second Resident was located in the
00:08:46
process this was Leonard Lake he's age 36 at this time so he's also arrested Sheriff's officials said Lake was booked
00:08:56
on charges of possession of a machine gun as well as several weapons with the serial numbers having been removed so
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they come in guns of Blazing what else do he wanted for well the details of his fugitive warrant he was The Mastermind
00:09:14
if we want to call it that of a large amount of automatic weapons that were stolen from a military base Armory in
00:09:23
Hawaii this was back in 1980 at the time in was in the US Marines several suspects in this theft
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were arrested including ing he was facing a court Marshal but ing escaped custody and then he went into hiding and
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made his way to Northern California when agents caught up with him ing was living
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at this Indian Creek Ranch with Leonard Lake and Lake's wife who were the two were working at
00:10:00
caretakers at this Ranch at the time now Captain I am unsure if Leonard Lake was
00:10:06
charged with harboring a fugitive Lake told officials that in was just a friend of his and that he did not know that he
00:10:13
was a wanted Federal fugitive but I've reviewed information that states yes in fact Lake was aware that ing was wanted
00:10:22
and he allowed in to move in with him solely because he was wanted and needed to get out of Hawaii right this will be
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a major triggering moment in this week's story this will have a domino effect for
00:10:39
not all but many of the crimes that we will be discussing here in the garage because after the raid Leonard Lake was
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released on bond but then he jumps bail so he decided then and there that he would live his life on the Run strange
00:10:56
situation he's harboring a fugitive and during the bust when they pick up ing they bring Leonard Lake up on
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several weapons charges and once he makes the bond he jumps bail he decides to then
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become a fugitive himself he decided that he would hide out and live his life on the Run he's
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not like the this doesn't seem like the most brilliant of Maneuvers here but it seemed to have worked so he decides he's
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going to move out and hide out in this remote cabin that was owned by his wife her name is Clarin balaz it was actually
00:11:40
I believe was actually owned by her parents so this is in wileyville which is a community in calaris County
00:11:48
California located in the foothills of Sierra Nevada yeah it's very remote so in was sent off to Marine custody as we
00:11:57
would expect he pleed guilty to the charges he plead guilty to fleeing and under the terms of that plea
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deal he was paroled and dishonorably discharged but this will not take place until 1984 after in serves 18 months in
00:12:16
the military Stockade at the US disciplinary barracks in lenworth once he's released he will then join back up
00:12:24
with his buddy Leonard Lake again in Northern California back to the C let's fill in the blanks here on who these
00:12:33
guys are and what happens between the time of this 1982 raid and 1984 when the two meet up
00:12:45
again so these two are real monsters both unique from each other but a lot of similarities as well as I think that we
00:12:54
will see as we venture along here right Charles in was born Bor and raised for many years in British Hong Kong before
00:13:02
moving to the states and then joining the US Marines he was a Bruce Lee wannabe type he also had fantasies of
00:13:10
running organized robbery weapons and bank heist this type of illegal operations similar to the one that he
00:13:18
got busted for to put it in its simplest of forms he basically wanted to get a group of military types together
00:13:26
organize them in Mastermind plots to steal steal and Rob weapons from military bases US military bases and
00:13:33
then sell the guns for large sums of money and Carry Out violent group bank robberies as well kind of like forming
00:13:42
an A team but for bad guys high-risk highly profitable illegal operations Charles ing wanted to be like the Hans
00:13:52
grber but he and his recruits get busted on their first go round Leonard Lake he's about 18 years older than Charles
00:14:02
ing lake called ing Charlie most of the time as we said Lake was married this is
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to Clarin blaz now after the raid on the house and once Leonard decided that it he was cool
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with being a fugitive the two of them made it official to split up they separated and
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they made it official with a divorce what it looks to me Captain and plenty of evidence to back this up is that
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while there was this divorce this was not a complete break because it very much turned into a Friends with Benefits
00:14:45
type situation it was basically let's get a divorce but we're going to still be in a relationship together so we're
00:14:51
just separated on paper separated in on paper but also separated for I wouldn't say all of the time but most of the time
00:15:00
right like so from my understanding the way that this panned out is the two would continue to carry on a sexual and
00:15:08
romantic relationship Leonard lake is again living at this hiding out at this cabin that belongs to clar Land's
00:15:17
parents even after they separate she would often spend like the weekends there with him or may go out there for a
00:15:27
couple of weeks at a time but the deal that they kind of had was Clarin didn't want to live her life on
00:15:35
the run right Leonard Lake thought that she was far too young she was much younger than he was he thought that she
00:15:43
was far too young and had too much left of her life in front of her that she didn't need to get all wrapped up into
00:15:52
his troubles with the law right because if they find him and her together she's likely going to be facing all kinds of
00:16:01
charges similar to what happened to him when he was hosting Charles Inc Yeah so basically it seems like this guy was
00:16:09
intent on on living a life of crime or living his life however he wanted to and if that involved crime so be it but if
00:16:19
they come to get me I'm not coming willingly you nailed it that's that's exactly what it appears that he wished
00:16:27
to do so the two of them they struck up this kind of deal they were still going to be
00:16:33
friends with benefits and Leonard Lake would be hiding out and hopefully for him and for Clarin she would remain
00:16:42
beyond the reach of the law because she's not Tethered to him well this is almost a perfect hiding out spot because
00:16:52
has a very long driveway it's gated so if somebody's coming to try to find Leonard he would have a
00:17:02
heads up to get your stuff get out of the house hide in the woods for about an hour and then once they leave you go
00:17:09
back to the property it's a little surprising to me and I think it will be to the listeners as well as we continue
00:17:16
on here because I feel like if they were really looking for Leonard Lake if they were
00:17:22
really concerned about him that he's like two degrees from his ex-wife right it wouldn't be very difficult it
00:17:31
wouldn't take the world's greatest detective to track this man down and law enforcement is probably not going to be
00:17:37
open and honest about this but I wonder how many times they went out to this property to look for him and were just
00:17:44
Bamboozled because like I said he could go hide out somewhere for a while and then come back when they're gone yeah
00:17:52
I'm with you I agree on that the only issue though I think I don't think they were actually even looking for him
00:17:58
there's indic ators from law enforcement that they didn't consider him to be a priority fugitive right while Leonard
00:18:06
Lake thought that he was and so he thinks he's on the Run needs to live in hiding but the truth is
00:18:15
the people he's running and hiding from they're not really looking for him yeah he's he's playing a solo game of hide
00:18:23
and seek Leonard Lake would go on to be just about every type of criminal that one can think of like the captain said
00:18:30
he's he's decided that this is now going to be his lifestyle and if he has to commit crimes to provide for himself for
00:18:39
his own Survival then so be it he will so he will go on to commit every kind of crime that one can think of so before we
00:18:47
get into the really bad stuff this guy was already into extortion theft and he was very much a
00:18:56
con man and attempt to commit to commit cons on the regular he had a few very unhealthy obsessions as well he was
00:19:08
obsessed with the idea of possessing slaves and he was obsessed with making pornography this through photography
00:19:19
filming and producing pornography he liked to make pornography for several reasons he was building his
00:19:28
own person collection but he would also use the materials he created for extortion purposes he called this sex
00:19:37
cons today we see and hear words like sex tortion we have seen this type of disgusting behavior and bullying frankly
00:19:46
from pedophiles online predators and even high school students and this is typically where he would get someone to
00:19:58
commit to being involved and agree to being involved in either photographs or actual
00:20:08
filming of pornography and then later use it to extort them for multiple reasons it could be
00:20:18
for to force them into sex acts later or to extort money from them he used this for all kinds of different purposes in
00:20:29
fact I've reviewed plenty of cases especially in the' 70s where pedophiles would use this type of tactic where they
00:20:37
would pay or give alcohol and maybe even marijuana to teenage boys to take photographs of them and then later
00:20:47
threaten to show those pictures to their parents and get them to do things that they otherwise would not be willing to
00:20:55
do and that's exactly what online predators are doing and even high school students are doing these days with their
00:21:03
cell phones and persons that they meet on the internet and anybody following the news right now this is some of the
00:21:10
stuff that they're claiming going after Puff Daddy about now as difficult as it may seem I actually
00:21:18
believe that Leonard Lake as big of a hypocrite and a monster that he was I do believe that he was capable of some form
00:21:28
of love maybe not as we the normal folks would know it or understand love to be but I
00:21:34
do believe that he did love Clarin baz and I also think that he loved the book The Collector The Collector is a
00:21:45
1963 psychological Thriller novel by John fowls some have even called it horror Fiction it's a rather brilliant
00:21:55
book its plot follows a Lon young man who kidnaps a female artart student in London her name in the book is Miranda
00:22:05
the man holds Miranda captive in the cellar of his rural Farmhouse Leonard Lake discovers this
00:22:13
book as a young man and will read it several times during his lifetime remember it is very evident
00:22:22
that for much of Leonard's life he is obsessed with the idea of possessing slaves these slaves both for the purpose
00:22:30
of Performing work task and job duties but also to possess sex slaves a woman to have whenever he desires to do
00:22:41
whatever he desires and then put her away for later I think this is in a way how and why Leonard Lake got
00:22:51
involved with Charles in so the way that these two meet and law enforcement has spent a good deal of
00:23:01
time trying to figure this out exactly when where and how the two of them met because remember Leonard lake is in
00:23:11
California and he's been out of the military for quite some time Charles in is on the run from the military who he
00:23:21
organized these guys this group of guys to get together and steal automatic guns from the US
00:23:30
government it sounds like another person retired from the military connected the
00:23:38
two that Charles ing was on the Run stayed with this retired Sergeant who then put him in touch with Leonard Lake
00:23:48
and then he went to California and was hiding out there with Lake it's believed that there was some kind of classified
00:23:57
ad that was placed in one of those Soldier of Fortune or survivalist type magazines that Lake may have responded
00:24:05
to and that's how this whole relationship started now the reason why I say that I think that this is why Lake
00:24:15
got involved with ing is that once in was staying with him he knows the situation he knows this guy is on the
00:24:23
run and so he is making him work for free he's basically working for room and board right and doing all these jobs and
00:24:35
things for Leonard lake so that he has a place to hide out well like you said Leonard was in the Army served during
00:24:43
Vietnam and was discharged I believe diagnosed with schizophrenia Leonard leg thought very
00:24:52
highly of himself thought he was um this genius thought if there was a apocalypse
00:24:59
he would be the only person to survive and that he would have to seed the rest of the
00:25:06
world and in a way this is how Charles kind of thought of himself Lake was born in San Francisco and in
00:25:17
1964 After High School he enlisted in the United States Marine Corps he served two tours of Duty in Vietnam after a
00:25:27
delusional breakdown he was diagnosed with schizoid personality disorder and then later he is he receives a medical
00:25:36
discharge from the Marine Corps this is in 1971 now back to the 80s I had said earlier that this raid that led to
00:25:47
Leonard lak's wanted status would have a domino effect well it most certainly did
00:25:52
in part because Leonard Lake needed to survive he needed an income he needed transportation
00:25:58
he needed a place to live well some of that meant that he needed a different identity so Lake from that day on was
00:26:09
always on the lookout for how to make money how to have a steady income and how to steal an identity and use that
00:26:17
identity of someone else that he could pass for cars were always a thing that he was on the lookout for as
00:26:26
well so now we have to introduce Leonard's brother his name Donald Lake Donald lake is about 5 years younger
00:26:37
than Leonard this will take us to December of 1982 Captain so at this time Donald lake is about 32 at this
00:26:46
point unfortunately Donald suffered from a disability due to an accident when he
00:26:51
was hit by a train as a kid so he suffered mental problems Leonard did not like his brother the accident and
00:27:02
subsequent disability required Donald to be taken care of almost Around the Clock
00:27:07
Leonard's parents were already separated when this accident took place so now we have a single mom with an
00:27:15
absent father and an additional needs child well in this situation this meant that Leonard was
00:27:25
sent off to be raised by his grandparents when married Leonard told his wife that his brother was a leech
00:27:33
and that his brother did not deserve to live in December of 1982 Donald was living with his mother this is in San
00:27:41
Fran Leonard pretending to be a good brother offered to take Donald on a road trip this for a house sitting job that
00:27:50
Leonard was scheduled for Leonard picked up Donald on the way and then all of a sudden Donald
00:27:58
was never seen again so the family reports Donald is missing with the police then a letter
00:28:05
arrives at bomb's house it's from Donald saying that he no longer wished to live
00:28:12
with his mother and that he had decided to move to Reno Nevada and he had made arrangements for his monthly disability
00:28:19
checks to be sent to him at his new address [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music]
00:28:43
it was almost The Perfect Crime everyone was distracted their attention elsewhere
00:28:48
stacks of Cold Hard Cash sitting on the table unguarded who wouldn't be tempted to slowly reach their hand out and steal
00:28:57
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00:33:11
garage all right we are back cheers mates talk hands in the air cheers to you Colonel cheers to you Captain this
00:33:21
brings us to something that is called operation fish and and the way that this works
00:33:29
here Captain is in May of 1983 Mr Leonard Lake moved in with his friend Charles gunar Charles is 36 at
00:33:40
this time from the outside looking in my guess captain is that most people would
00:33:46
believe that Charles gunar was Leonard lakes's best friend I would go as far as to wager of
00:33:52
Franklin that gunar believed himself to be Leonard Lake's best friend gunar like
00:33:57
Lake had a military background Charles Gunner had retired from the Navy Gunner was the best man at Lake's wedding back
00:34:06
in 1981 they both shared an interest in survival skills guns and collecting other types of weapons so these two had
00:34:16
known each other pretty well for years when they were married they knew each other's wives they spent time together
00:34:24
Lake spent time with Gunner's family and knew his two kid do ERS as well on May 22nd the two took a road trip to Las
00:34:33
Vegas or maybe it was to Tahoe Leonard Lake would tell people different locations both before and after the trip
00:34:43
gunar was recently divorced from his wife and he was the primary caregiver for his two
00:34:49
daughters the daughters did not go on this trip this was to be a guys road trip two old buddies both single hitting
00:34:58
the road in Gunner's van after the two were gone for a few days Leonard Lake came cruising back into town but he's
00:35:07
alone and he's in Gunner's van Lake tells everyone that while they were on their trip that his good buddy fell in
00:35:15
love and ran off with some woman that he had just met Lake said that he didn't know how anyone could get in touch with
00:35:23
gunar but he was sure that eventually gunar would return either to be with or to collect his two
00:35:32
daughters and what we now know Captain is the Charles gunar was never seen again no which makes two people that
00:35:41
left with lake and never never came back now a little reminder here Charles in is
00:35:47
locked up during all of this he is serving his time in Kanas Leonard lake is living in this
00:35:55
wilsley Ville which which is an unincorporated community in caleris County California it's not until after Charles
00:36:05
is released in 1984 that the two meet up again by the time that Charles ing finds
00:36:11
his way back to Now The Fugitive living on the Run Leonard lake lake is living alone he's
00:36:20
using the name Charles gunar and he has constructed a survival bunker directly behind his house now we're
00:36:31
going to say neighbors here Captain but as you know and you've described some of
00:36:34
this area where he's living the neighbors are few and far between to put it simple and
00:36:43
short but the neighbors that he has interaction with these neighbors were told that again this is Leonard Lake AKA
00:36:52
Charles Gunner he he's using this name and that's how all of his neighbors know him to be Charles
00:36:58
Gunner he tells the neighbors that this building is kind of a just in case it's like an emergency plan for the end times
00:37:06
times that Lake believed were coming sooner rather than later and that was true not the end times were upon us but
00:37:15
that the bunker was built as an emergency survival bunker but according to Lake and what he would tell to
00:37:22
Charles in when he gets there that this bunker had another use and a more immediate
00:37:31
purpose and that purpose Leonard Lake told Charles was something that lake called operation
00:37:39
Miranda unfortunately this remote area will afford these two the Privacy they needed and desired these two guys they
00:37:51
spent the next year stealing from their neighbors what they would do is they had these
00:38:00
different sheds or cabins whatever you want to call them most most sources call them cabins but these are very
00:38:09
small structures where one might spend a night or a weekend or a couple of nights
00:38:16
this is not somewhere where one would live somebody might go there and rent the place or do a favor or work it work
00:38:24
the land for a little bit and get the opportunity to stay there briefly yeah this wasn't like a resort if You' see
00:38:32
these structures You' consider that you're going out to the woods to rough it it's like thousands of Acres I
00:38:39
believe and we're talking about uh a a large sprawling Ranch anybody that's seen Yellowstone knows
00:38:48
what we're kind of talking about a very large plot of land except for those big beautiful cabins that you see on the
00:38:53
show Yellowstone that we don't have any big beautiful cabins or Mansion type houses at on these Acres on this acreage
00:39:02
here we have these smaller houses and then we also have these sheds or cabins as they were called now from my
00:39:12
understanding Captain a lot of these cabins the small ones that I'm talking about were up in elevated land like in
00:39:20
the they're in the Foothills but these are elevated what I think that Leonard Lake was doing is I think he was going
00:39:28
up there positioning himself inside one of these cabins so he can kind of spy on
00:39:33
the neighbors who all live down below and from this vantage point from some of these Vantage points he could
00:39:42
look into their houses where these persons lived long term either renters or maybe even they had purchased the
00:39:51
structure but what this gave him the ability to do because this area is so remote we're not talking about having to
00:39:59
kick in a door or break a window to get into these people's homes where they live he would
00:40:05
often just watch and wait and when he could see that no one was there sneak in a back door maybe a side door and steal
00:40:15
valuables from these dwellings now of course everybody knows that this is going on but nobody knows who's doing it
00:40:24
and in conversation with the other neighbors lake is telling them he's experiencing the same problems I'm a
00:40:32
victim as well exactly he's he's a victim as well the other thing that this remote area and his living
00:40:41
situation affords him unfortunately and we know this on a couple of occasions that Lake and ing L
00:40:52
people men and at least a one woman that we could find to the cabin to their where they lived with the promise of
00:41:03
work like hey we we own this ranch we're working this ranch we're the caretakers
00:41:09
here we're also working the land a couple of these people were told that Lake was running a pot farm that he
00:41:18
needed persons to come out and help work this pot farm like in one situation one
00:41:24
man arrives he goes out there thinking he's got a job showing up for work and instead he finds Lake and ing who end up
00:41:33
robbing him and then killing the man right then there was the dobs family we have husband and father his name is
00:41:43
Harvey dubs he was aged 29 at the time he placed an advertisement in a newspaper
00:41:51
and unfortunately that listing caught the eye of a one Leonard Lake Harvey dubs was selling some video
00:42:00
equipment Lake needs some video equipment for his Miranda operation I don't know if it it
00:42:10
was that he was selling it cuz he was also known to rent the equipment out to people yeah I mean that could be a
00:42:17
possibility the the information I have was that he was it was a listing for this equipment to be sold but regardless
00:42:25
this is what's going to put Lake in contact with Harvey dubs right so on July 25th Harvey's wife Deborah was
00:42:34
she's talking on the telephone to a friend during this conversation the doorbell rings at their
00:42:42
apartment Deborah tells her friend on the other end hey I gotta go I got to I got to hop off the phone here there's
00:42:50
two men who are interested in the items that are listed and they've arrived so she hops off the phone now the dubs
00:43:00
family they're living in an apartment building they regularly spoke with and kept in contact with their neighbors in
00:43:08
particular their downstairs neighbor so we have other people living in this building the
00:43:16
Neighbors after a while start to notice that at some point in Late July the young couple with the little
00:43:23
baby boy that they were you know regularly seen going in and out of their apartment they were no longer
00:43:30
seen right instead more than one neighbor noticed an Asian man going in and out of the young couple's apartment
00:43:41
yeah there's multiple Witnesses seeing men going in and out of the property carrying items and they were able to
00:43:51
give uh descriptions to police then in another strange turn of events Harvey's work Harvey Dub's work receives
00:44:01
a strange phone call from a man who identified himself as James brigh this Mr brigh told
00:44:09
Harvey's employer that Harvey dubs had to go to Washington state for a family emergency and he may not be back anytime
00:44:18
soon so this family of three vanished including the one-year-old Shawn dubs it's
00:44:27
believed that Lake and ing likely used the baby to control the parents that once they got into the
00:44:36
apartment under the ruls that they were there to look at the video equipment either for the purpose of renting or
00:44:43
purchasing that no that's not what they were there to do they were there to do much
00:44:49
worse include stealing said video equipment but the thought here is that is that they used the little one to
00:44:58
control the parents and then move move the parents and the family as they pleased and so obviously
00:45:08
you have people reporting this family missing law enforcement gets involved they're going to do a search of the
00:45:15
property and they know hey the last person to talk with anybody in this family she was mentioning these guys
00:45:23
were coming over to look at this video equipment very expensive video equipment and guess
00:45:31
what the video equipment's gone and they also found some I think it was some phone wire that
00:45:39
was tied to a door handle and then they started thinking well maybe they tied an individual up as
00:45:49
they're controlling the other members of the family so right away the law enforcement wasn't just thinking that
00:45:57
this family disappeared Into Thin Air pretty quickly law enforcement was on to the idea that something bad probably
00:46:04
happened to this family and it probably involved this camera equipment and the thing that is terrible here for all
00:46:15
involved the law enforcement and the neighbors and the family the only leads that they really have is like you said
00:46:22
there Captain we have the neighbors who witnessed an Asian man going in and out of the
00:46:29
apartment on a on several occasions there's at least one eyewitness that spots the Asian man
00:46:37
getting into a vehicle I believe it was some kind of Volkswagen and she's able to provide a
00:46:44
description of the driver to law enforcement where she says it's a Caucasian male with a a dark beard a
00:46:52
balding Caucasian male with a dark black beard really all they have to work off of law enforcement is this
00:47:01
description of these two men they're and I hate to paint this horrible picture here but police are
00:47:10
really trying to dissect this situation and trying to figure out exactly the movements of
00:47:20
everyone because the problem becomes in this situation at this scene is how how the hell would these
00:47:29
men have got a family of three out of this populated apartment building without being seen nobody saw anybody in
00:47:38
the family leave that property and so the thought was there was at least one witness that had seen the Asian man
00:47:47
leaving the apartment carrying a large suitcase there are some that think that possibly like you had said at some point
00:47:55
someone's tied up up with that telephone cord in the apartment they think that maybe the small child was moved outside
00:48:05
to a vehicle and then with that threat already in place the remaining abductor who's still in the
00:48:16
apartment with the parents was able to control them in that manner and to get them to move quietly out to the car they
00:48:26
think that took place overnight because of the time period of when the male is seen leaving the
00:48:34
apartment with the large suitcase and we do know that Leonard Lake based off of what we've already discussed and things
00:48:43
that we will go through as we continue on here he's a weapons fanatic we know he and so is Charles ing so no doubt
00:48:54
they they likely used a gun in the scenario but it's good to have a clear understanding that this apartment
00:49:01
building was populated as such that you they're not finding evidence other than that telephone cord that that any kind
00:49:11
of major scuffle took place inside this apartment they're not finding any evidence that anybody was killed inside
00:49:20
this apartment so what everything is suggesting to law enforcement and investigators at the time is that
00:49:27
somehow somebody was able to successfully move these individuals out of the apartment and also move any items
00:49:36
that they desire to steal from the apartment yeah well you have two individuals both military background both weapon
00:49:48
experts both criminal experts because they don't do just one crime they do any crime that gets them from point A to
00:49:57
point B whatever they're trying to do in their life if there's a crime that can get
00:50:03
them there they will do it and so I think what they did was like you said if we can get to the child we can
00:50:12
control the situation and maybe they thought doesn't matter if there is a child or not if we can get to one of the
00:50:19
members in the family who can control the situation and the ruse probably was simply hey this is a robbery we're only
00:50:28
after camera equipment this is how the crime is going to go down and you will do what we say and if you do what we say
00:50:37
nobody gets hurt we're only after the camera equipment that's right we got the kid in the car we're just all going to
00:50:44
go for a ride we just need to get all of you out of the apartment and then you the three of you will be safe we'll drop
00:50:50
you off somewhere again it's it's a situation where yeah we know Charles A is really into this highrisk type of
00:51:02
behavior and crimes but at the same time they this is not the type of apartment building where we can have gunshots
00:51:08
going off without anybody noticing in fact there there were a couple of people that liveed near this young couple that
00:51:16
said we think that they went missing on this date because we we live so close to
00:51:22
one another you can often hear each other through the walls or through the floor
00:51:27
and we stopped hearing this very active young family on this date and that's when police and detectives are going
00:51:36
this is on the same date that Deborah's on the phone with a friend and says she's got to hang up there's some people
00:51:43
at the door that are here to look at this video equipment that's July 25th [Music]
00:52:01
make sure you come back to the garage for part two until then be good be kind and don't litter
00:52:08
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