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foreign [Music] [Applause] [Music] welcome to True Crime garage wherever you are whatever you are doing thanks
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for listening I'm your host Nick and with me as always ladies and gentlemen hands down the illest ventriloquist this
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side of the Mississippi River I give you the captain should have been a man who has such fat hands he can't fit them up
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the dummy's ass it's good to be seen and it's good to see you thanks for listening thanks for telling a friend
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[Music] this week we are very excited to be featuring black Galaxy IPA by the good
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folks down at Beacon Brewing Company and beautiful LaGrange Georgia blast off into this Interstellar IPA don't be
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fooled by its optical illusion beneath the black abyss lies a roast character with pungent tropical fruit and musky
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Citrus garage grade four big bottle caps and let's give some praise to our friends who helped us out with this
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week's beer run first up a big cheers to Paula in LaGrange Georgia another big shout out to Mitchell and then
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Huntington West Virginia next a big cheers in Ron's Swanson please and thank you to Jennifer V and Farmers Branch
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Texas and a big we like your trip to Charles B in Fort Worth Texas all right here's a long distance West Coast cheers
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to Mariah and Long Beach California and last but certainly not least we have a big thank you to Ethan and Carla Morris
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out in Warrenton Virginia everyone we just mentioned well they helped us out with this week's beer funding for that
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we thank you yeah everybody's down with the LBC thanks for supporting the show for the bwrun beer run but if you'd like
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there's something for everyone and that is enough of the business all right everybody gather round grab a chair grab
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a beer let's talk some true crime [Music] what I heard was acid is groovy kill the
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pigs and I believe I heard that twice at first that was the first thing that I remember hearing but it's very jumbled
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because that's mixed up with my wife screaming Jeff help me and my daughter's screaming
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[Music] she looks dead all right [Music] she's saying acid is groovy kill the pigs
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ever didn't read she looks dead [Music] the following is an adaptation from the book American Justice great crimes and
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trials by Paul Begg and Martin Fido Dr Jeffrey McDonald was an Army captain in the prestigious Green Berets the
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crack special teams operation unit of the American Army trained for particularly hazardous roles
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McDonald was a good soldier he worked hard and graduated from Princeton University
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while still a student there he got married in 1963. Jeffrey completed his medical studies at Northwestern
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University in 1969. 1969 was the year of Charles Manson and his so-called family's arrest for the
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horrific murders of Sharon Tate and her house guest followed by those of Mr and Mrs labianca so it was appalling to
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learn that in February of 1970 the hippies had struck again another household had been violated
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another family had been savagely done to death their blood too had been used for crude
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graffiti 1970 the McDonald family of four was living at Fort Bragg a large military
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base in North Carolina Department was located at 544 Castle Drive military police provided security
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in the early morning hours of Tuesday February 17th Jeff McDonald calls the military police his voice was weak and
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croaky his message alarming and imprecise help 544 Castle Drive stabbing 544 Castle Drive stabbing hurry
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Duty police raced to the house on Castle Drive in the living room they found signs of a
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struggle in the main bedroom Dr Jeffrey McDonald and his wife Colette are found lying on
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the floor Colette is dead she was savagely battered and covered with blood on the wall the word Pig had been
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scrawled in her blood the couple's two daughters both lay dead in their bedrooms
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the murder weapons were found outside the back door McDonald was taken to the military
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Hospital he had a severe stab to the chest which punctured along his story the family had gone to bed he
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reported except for him he stayed up reading and dozing off in his pajamas on the couch in the sitting room he awoke
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to find four hippies in the house three of them men the fourth was a woman Jeffrey struggled with them but they
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overpowered him and tied his hands before clubbing him over the head when he finally came round the house was
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cold and silent the hippies were gone Jeffrey went upstairs to find blood stains on the
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floors and walls his whole family had been brutally massacred the military police were
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working under severe handicaps their normal employment does not involve solving serious crimes let alone the
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notoriously difficult stranger murders that can give experienced detectives serious problems the MPS are normally
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used to breaking up drunken brawls pursuing enlisted men who have gone AWOL and perhaps handling the odd case of
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pilfering they are usually enclosed Barracks too where guards on the gates mean all entries and exits have been
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checked and the whole Community can be sealed off for immediate investigation in a crisis before Bragg was an open
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base the public had the right to enter and pass through parts of it was not possible to close everything
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down at once and hope the hippies would be caught in a trap this is True Crime garage
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[Music] I just screamed the acid is groovy killed the pigs hit him again he was crying and said we did it he said
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they didn't mean to kill anybody but so things just went bad she looks dead all right Captain we are going to dive
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right into this week's timeline and we're going to start with the McDonald family timeline leading up to the day in
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question because there is a lot to cover here in our two fantastic episodes here
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in the garage in 1943 both Colette Catherine Stevenson and Jeffrey McDonald were born Colette's father Edward passes
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away in 1954. in 1956 Colette's mother Mildred starts dating a man named Freddy casab
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these will all be major players in this week's case in 1963 Jeffrey and Colette are married Jeffrey is still a student
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at Princeton University at this time a little back story here Captain they grew up in the same area went to the same
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High School Jeffrey McDonald and Colette Stevenson are kids that grew up together
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went to school together together they dated on and off in high school in fact they were a bit of high school
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sweethearts yeah but there were some time periods where they were not together in a relationship but they
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start seeing each other again at college and while Jeffrey's still in college they get married in 1963. this is
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because Colette is already pregnant with Jeffrey's child so in 1964 their first daughter is born her name is Kimberly
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Catherine McDonald the McDonald's then moved to Chicago where Jeff starts medical school at Northwestern
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University just three years after their first daughter in 1967 their second daughter is born this is Kristen Jean
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McDonald now 1969 Captain is going to be a very busy year for Jeffrey and the McDonald family this is because Jeffrey
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joins the U.S army so first Jeff reports to Fort Sam Houston Army Medical in San
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Antonio for six weeks then he is off to Fort Benning in Georgia for three weeks of paratrooper training then Jeffrey
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McDonald was sent to Fort Bragg in North Carolina he is assigned to the Green Berets as a surgeon for the Special
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Forces Group one thing that will come into question later as we're going through the case itself the
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investigation in the actual murders is Jeffrey McDonald's army training Green Berets are a Special Forces Unit they're
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able to handle very difficult situations most of the time they are trained in martial arts and hand-to-hand combat and
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all kinds of different tactical strategic fighting moves like Kung Fu but we have Jeffrey McDonald here who is
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sent to the green Braves as a surgeon so he is not trained the same way that they would train these typical ground
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troops normally they have some kind of boot camp and some initial training but specialty soldiers they're going to go
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through a different training after the initial trade correct he receives this boot camp type training he receives this
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paratrooper training which is kind of above and beyond anyway he never gets into the martial arts or any of that
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because it's understood that it's very unlikely as a surgeon that he will actually see any real Combat yeah I mean
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if you ever watch the show MASH it wasn't like they were Kung Fu Fighting right only if you were absolutely forced
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into some very difficult situation yeah but that's when you just yell I don't know karate but I know crazy
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that same year shortly after arriving at Fort Bragg Jeffrey and the McDonald family of four move into the apartment
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on base and officers housing this is the 544 or 544 Castle Drive residence this takes place in 1970. so the setup here
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is we have a family of four the victims are going to be the wife and the two daughters the only sole survivor will be
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the husband and of course the wife and daughters are killed either late on February 16th or very early on February
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17th the following will be Jeffrey McDonald's account of the events leading up to that and what took place during
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the attack brought on by these Intruders starting with Saturday February 14th Lieutenant Ronald Harrison made a visit
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to the McDonald residence this would be in the evening hours during the visit Harrison and McDonald discussed the
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Sharon Tate murder yeah that's from the Charles Manson case the conversation comes about because Harrison spotted an
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issue of Esquire magazine sitting on on the coffee table on the cover of the magazine was quote Lee Marvin is afraid
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evil lurks in California Harrison picked up the magazine looked at it and McDonald basically told him the issue
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was a must read Harrison flipped through the magazine while McDonald told him about the Articles inside McDonald's
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said that there were articles about the Sharon Tate murder and a cult in California yeah that'd be the Charles
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Manson cult the two had a five-minute conversation that mostly included joking but also discussed in a serious manner
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the witch the sorcerer the Black Swan and the acid goddess these are all from articles in this particular magazine
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they both agreed it was unbelievable what was happening in California they went on to discuss drugs and people who
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take drugs McDonald's says from what I've read and medically speaking that marijuana isn't so bad but the harder
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stuff he had some serious concerns with so we're setting it up in this manner because this is an important part of his
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account because what happened was just the year before was the Sharon Tate in Mr and Mrs labianca murders right
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Charles Manson and Manson's family killing people invading homes in California and this now where an early
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1970. the trials hadn't even started for Manson and his followers yet this is big
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big news and of course this is something that McDonald's discussing with his friend the Conversation Piece was the
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magazine itself but this is also a topic of discussion in homes around America at the time because what went
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down in California was just so heinous and so unbelievable yeah it's one of the big bang moments it's like everybody
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knows where they were at when Kennedy was shot everybody remembers hearing about the Manson Murders everybody knows
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where they're at on 9 11. there's one of the big bang moments this will lead us to Sunday the 15th on Sunday February
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15th McDonald went to work at the hospital in Hamlet North Carolina he reports nothing unusual happening that
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day he says that he treated a small number of patients and worked all day long now to be clear Captain this is a
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24 hour shift that he worked from Sunday at 6 a.m to Monday at 6 a.m probably too
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long for a surgeon to be working steady the hands my friend yeah I mean I don't want to be the guy that goes into
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surgery on the 22nd hour right I don't think he's performing surgeries I don't know exactly what he's doing he is a
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surgeon what else is he supposed to be doing shining shoes well he says that he took two naps while on shift and says
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that he slept for approximately five and a half hours total that day and he went
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on to say that that would be about what he would sleep on a normal night at home
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on Monday February 16th and I want everybody to pay really really close attention to
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everything that is said here take some notes if you're able to after only if you're driving his shift McDonald went
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back to his home at the base and had breakfast with Colette and the kids it sounds like he may have taken a nap or
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slept at some point during the daytime on that Monday at 4 45 PM McDonald and his two daughters leave the house to go
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see the horse that he bought for the family for Christmas the pasture is about five miles from
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their house what's the horse's name you know what I I did know this at one point I didn't
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put it in my whole story we'll call him Rusty I think I think you can actually easily find the horse's name but I I
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can't recall what it is at this point at 5 pm McDonald's daughter's ride and feed the
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horse and then they return to the home arriving around 5 30 to 5 40 p.m the McDonald family of four they sit down to
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dinner together for a short dinner at 6 10 p.m his wife Colette left the house for an evening class at the University
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of North Carolina this was a extension school that was located on the military base Colette was taking child psychology
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courses at that time we should point out some some things here about the family and Colette and Jeffrey before we move
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on too far Jeffrey McDonald he's a doctor he's a surgeon but he's in I mean he's incredibly smart of course doctors
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and surgeons are incredibly smart anyway but we're talking about schooling at Princeton and Northwestern University
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where he graduated near the top of his class right the people that knew these individuals very well would tell you
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that Not only was Jeffrey McDonald incredibly intelligent but Colette might have been smarter than than Jeffrey and
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Robert so her life is a little bit on hold because she's staying at home and raising their two children but we see
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here when he's at home when he's able to be home between these long shifts she's
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able to go and continue her education McDonald's said that after Colette left that he cleaned up dinner and played
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with the kids for a while his daughter Kristen went to bed between 7 and 7 30 p.m these are very young children
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Kimberly stayed up watching TV McDonald's said he fell asleep on the living room floor which was pretty
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common Kimberly woke him up around 8 pm and he knows this to be accurate as far as the
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time goes because he says that Kimberly and him always watched a show called Laugh-In together it was Kimberly's
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favorite TV show so she woke him up so they could watch the TV show together at 8pm and then after the show he says he
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put Kimberly to bed in her bedroom at 9 00 PM McDonald returned to the living room to watch the Bob Hope special that
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was on that night right at 9 40 p.m Colette returned home and at that time she changed into her PJs joined McDonald
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in the living room where they watch TV together McDonald would say that because they had two children because he works
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so much because Colette is continuing her education they had very little time to spend just one-on-one the two of them
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so it was very common the late night they would spend an hour or two together either watching
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TV listening to records or reading or just talking about their day that was kind of their time once the kids were
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put to bed and once all the busyness hustle and bustle of the day-to-day life was done he says that Colette went to
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bed around midnight McDonald's says he may have dozed off but spent some time reading a book and watching Johnny
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Carson at the same time here's Johnny at 1am he shut off the TV and continued reading his book
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at 1 30 a.m Jeffrey McDonald says he went to bed and he noticed that dishes were not done so
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he decided all right I'm not going to bed just yet I'm going to take care of these dishes so he washes the dishes and
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straightens up the kitchen a little bit he says this is to you know earn some points with his wife yeah some brownie
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points yeah you don't you don't want to upset mom or the wife by not cleaning up
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the dinner that he probably promised to clean up McDonald's says that sometime during the last hour that he was up that
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night that Christy got out of bed and went into the master bedroom and fell asleep next to Colette her mother so
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when he goes in to go to bed he found her in the bed on his side of the bed right she had wet the bed and there was
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a large wet spot on his half of the bed great yeah long day just did the dishes go you almost fell asleep on the couch
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but now it's time to go to bed one you see your daughter there so you're like oh great I gotta move her oh no
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she peed she peed the bed and she's two so this is fairly common that she would get up sometime in the middle of the
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night and creep in and go sleep with Mom and Dad in their bed it's still one of those moments where you're like can I
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freaking just win one right just let me win one today could have slept easier at
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the hospital yeah so he says he picked up Christy carried her back to her bedroom placed her in her bed then he
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gives her a bottle now he decides rather than he's not gonna go sleep in the wet
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spot nobody wants to sleep in the wet spot regardless of how it got wet so he decides you know what rather than waking
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up my wife changing the sheets you know fixing everything up she's fine she's sleeping her half the bed is is fine
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he decides it will be easier if I just go and sleep on the couch for the night go sleep on the couch in the living room
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wake up take care of it in the morning right right he says at that time when he goes to bed when he goes to go to sleep
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on the couch he remembers specifically that the only lights on in the house were a kitchen ceiling light and the
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main bathroom light McDonald says he fell asleep within a matter of three to four minutes
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he says he never had trouble falling asleep some of us do he never had any trouble falling asleep it seems like
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very likely because he's tired from doing so much all of the time yeah McDonald's says that the next thing that
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he is aware of he's awakened by a scream coming from his wife he hears his wife screaming he's in the
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living room and he says the living room when he wakes up to hearing the screaming it's mainly darkness in that
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room he describes this as a very loud scream and he said it was definitely Colette's voice he says quote things all
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happened at once he says I was sitting up I was hearing this very piercing scream then she said quote meaning
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Colette quote help Jeff why are they doing this to me there were people at the foot of my couch he says in the
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living room these people are three males and he says then I saw a female behind the three
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males so I saw a total of four people so four people is all that he ever says that he saw during this entire event
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says I heard Kimberly screaming at the same time and I started to get up and said either what's going on or what the
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hell's going on or what's going on here okay so let's paint this picture a little bit better those are his words
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I'm going to give you the Colonel's words picture this he says he wakes up in near
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Darkness he's hearing his wife scream Jeff why are they doing this to me notices three males standing at the foot
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of his couch he's in the living room Colette's in the bedroom master bedroom he notices a woman standing behind the
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three males and then he's hearing his daughter scream now at the same time he says at the same time so I'm going all
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right same time either all three of these things are happening at the same time wife screams notices the people
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daughter screams or his words would indicate that the he hears his daughter screaming at the same time as some other
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event meaning either his wife screaming or at the same time that he notices these people in the living room with him
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he says what's going on what the hell's going on he doesn't remember exactly what he says to these people when he
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sees them now Jeffrey says there were two men at the foot of the couch and the third man was between the couch and the
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coffee table they were all facing him he says he saw a woman behind the two men at the foot of the couch he goes on to
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say all I really saw was that it appeared to be a girl with long blonde hair and a big floppy hat I had the
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impression that she was holding quote like a candle in her hands he says this because mainly there was
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sort of a light on her face he does go on to say that it could have been a flashlight he says there was a light
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coming from the kitchen and the hallway there is enough light to see the figures
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of these people the silhouette of these people but not so much enough to see details of these people want to be clear
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the McDonald's house it's connected to other houses correct yes it's it's an apartment on base so it's on base
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officer housing and yes they share walls with other officers in their family and
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it's pretty large I'd almost say that it's almost seems like houses that are connected as opposed to what we would
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assume as Apartments connected it really seems like a pretty large space the building itself no I'm saying the
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individual units that are connected you can go online and see diagrams that people have made 3D diagrams uh if you
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want to dive into the structure in the layout of the house yeah I don't know the square footage of of the apartment
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itself but it's kind of that's what I'm looking for now the easy way to describe
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it would be long it's rectangular and from my understanding Captain the living room that he's in and the if you
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want to call it the upstairs level or the bedrooms is really only separated by a step or
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two if this diagram is correct it looks like the front of the house is roughly 52 feet
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and the depth of the house is roughly I'd say 28 to 30 feet okay he goes on to tell us that two of the three men were
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white and one of the males was black he says that the black man was wearing an army fatigue jacket he says that he
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started approaching me he raised something over his head and swung it down towards me I started to fall back
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and I put my arm up to fend it off this attack he's trying to fend off then he hit me on the forehead at which time I
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literally saw Stars I was knocked backwards onto the couch I was becoming more confused I struggled
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back to a sitting position and he raised the club up again and started swinging it down I sort of fended it off he says
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I grabbed his arm and slid down onto the club so I was holding the club with my hands
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at this time I saw sergeant stripes on his sleeve so he's saying one of the attackers the black male is wearing an
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army fatigue jacket and it's this man who is striking him with something in the forehead
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and during the scuffle with this guy he notices sergeant stripes on the army fatigue
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jacket while this was occurring he says that the girl he's referring to this this is a grown woman but he keeps
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saying girl while this was occurring the girl was saying quote acid is groovy and
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killed the pigs someone said once or twice hit him again it may have been the girl that said this Jeffrey McDonald
00:29:41
says I'm not sure yeah well Jeffrey's given us a lot of details but it seems like he's also questioning the details
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as he's giving them he goes on to say I was holding on to the club at which time
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the struggle became more confusing I'm guessing this is because he's been struck in the head with this club but
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then I developed a terrific pain in my chest my right chest I assumed I was being punched I thought I had been
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punched in the chest really really hard maybe the wind was knocked out of me I let go
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of the club and I began grappling with the other two men at this time my shirt so McDonald is wearing his pajamas he's
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wearing pajama pants and a button-up long-sleeve pajama top he says at this time my shirt was either pulled over my
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head or it was ripped I have the feeling it was ripped because I don't remember something being pulled over my head in
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any case my shirt ended up wrapped around my forearms and partially around my hand
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I'm still struggling with these guys I had the impression that one of the white guys that I was struggling with was
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wearing gloves I hit one of the men not sure who in the face in the face I grabbed one of the men and I was holding
00:31:03
on to his hand I looked and I saw a blade in his hand and I realized at this point I was being stabbed I was not
00:31:12
being punched I never really got on My Feet Again the long sleeve pajama top was still on my arms the so it was he
00:31:23
says in my way so I he was using it as like a buffer right they're trying to strike him or stab him or hit him with
00:31:31
things and he's got this pajama top that's now wrapped around his forearms and hand and he's kind of using it as
00:31:37
almost a shield he goes on to say at this point I was aware of being hit on the left shoulder and head and I started
00:31:45
falling I sort of fell towards the stairs at the end of the couch is the hallway it comes out right there and the
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hallway is two stairs up from the living room I just sort of fell that way and then I saw right in front of me a knee
00:32:01
in the top of a boot I was under the impression that it was a female that I was looking at I saw a knee in the top
00:32:09
of a boot and I had the impression of the boot being wet that that is the last thing I saw before I woke up
00:32:23
[Music] [Music] [Music] all right we're back cheers mates cheers to you Colonel Hallelujah to the people
00:32:52
in the back cheers to all you snow-covered Critters out there let's continue on Captain with Jeffrey
00:32:58
McDonald's account of what went down that night okay when we left off he says that he's
00:33:05
been knocked out basically you know they've he's been attacked and then this is the last thing I remember was seeing
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a wet boot who he believed belonged to the woman that he spotted in the living room
00:33:18
before he blacks out or goes unconscious yeah at this point he thinks he was hit
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in the head multiple times by multiple individuals and also possibly stabbed he goes on to say that the first
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recollection that he had when he woke up was that I was on my stomach on the hallway floor and my arms were still
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wrapped in this pajama top my teeth were chattering and I thought I was going into shock I got up at which time I was
00:33:48
dizzy and confused I had a pain in my chest and it was hard to breathe so I went down to our master bedroom
00:33:56
I probably turned on the lights my wife was lying off of the bed and on the floor her feet were toward the hallway
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her head was toward the bed she was sort of next to the bed partially leaning against the Green easy
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chair that is next to the bed she didn't look good at all she looked very bad there
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was a knife sticking out of her chest and as I was coming into the room I started taking off this top he's
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referring to his pajama shirt right so my hands were free and when I saw the knife I pulled it out of her chest and
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sort of tossed the knife while pulling a knife from somebody's chest might be a very awkward or maybe uncommon thing I
00:34:42
think for a normal victim but we do know that he's a surgeon so maybe that is the
00:34:48
reason why he did so he goes on to say that I then tried to give her and this is his words artificial breathing
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simulation so maybe that's fairy doctor speak I don't know but CPR well not CPR he's simply giving her mouth to mouth
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resuscitation at that time but he says that the air bubbles the air bubbles were coming out of her chest and neck
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when he trying to breathe for her think about that when you're eating your lunch
00:35:16
yeah he says that it's then that he realized that he the fact the sad fact that he would not be able to revive her
00:35:25
he said that there was no way that she could sustain her own breathing he's a surgeon so he's going to act a little
00:35:33
differently I think than most people he says he then stopped doing the mouth to mouth and he says I didn't know what to
00:35:40
do so I covered her chest with my pajama top under the theory that if she's not dead she's at least in deep shock
00:35:49
and you go over and Elevate their legs and lie them flat he says I don't know if it was now or
00:35:58
later that I checked her pulse but at this point I realized that I had heard Kimberly yelling also
00:36:06
what I think he means here Captain is that he remembered hearing Kimberly yelling before he was knocked out not
00:36:14
that she's yelling at this exact moment yeah because he reported hearing his wife yell and also possibly one of his
00:36:22
children y'all now he's remembering that so he says I got up again and it was getting harder for him to breathe at
00:36:29
this time he says I went down the hallway into Kimberly's room Kimberly was in her bed on the right side of the
00:36:36
bed I saw what I thought were stab wounds I didn't notice any other wound I just saw a lot of blood I don't know if
00:36:46
it was now or later I tried to give artificial respiration I think I checked her pulse I turned around went out of
00:36:55
the bedroom and into the other bedroom this would be the other little girl's bedroom
00:37:00
I found Christy lying in her bed she had a lot of blood on her I checked her pulse and remembered trying to breathe
00:37:09
and give her mouth-to-mouth resuscitation and the same thing happened that happened with
00:37:15
this okay he's giving this these statements in an interview and this is his recollection not with police right
00:37:26
this is an interview that's not being conducted by police so he's starting to say
00:37:33
I believe that that the same thing happened when he gave mouth to mouth to his wife and seeing the air bubbles
00:37:42
coming from the chest and the neck right I'm kind of guessing here because he says the same thing happened that
00:37:48
happened with and then the notes state that the interview stopped for about 10 minutes
00:37:54
because they needed Jeffrey McDonald to you know regain his composure to carry on with the actual interview we don't
00:38:02
get him to finish that sentence when the interview picks up he says I ran into the hallway and I just stood
00:38:09
there not knowing what to do I noticed blood on my hand so I went to the master bathroom rinsed my hands off and dried
00:38:18
my hands off with some toilet paper or something and dropped it either on the toilet or on to the floor I remember
00:38:27
coming back into the master bedroom so I was back to Colette his wife I checked her Carotid pulse I took away
00:38:36
my pajama top and looked at her chest wounds again and at this time I kind of knew all of this probably occurred in
00:38:44
just a matter of a few minutes it was getting very hard for me to breathe my head was really hurting and I was
00:38:51
getting dizzy and I just didn't know what to do there is a phone in the bedroom so I went over to the phone
00:38:59
picked up the phone and I dialed zero the operator came on and I said something to the effect like this is
00:39:07
Captain McDonald or Dr McDonald I'm at 544 Castle Drive and there has been some people stabbed and we need ambulances
00:39:16
doctors and MPS and she said referring to the operator is it on post or off post meaning where he's calling from and
00:39:28
Dr McDonald says I said what the hell are you talking about she repeated is this on post or off post right Dr
00:39:35
McDonald said for Christ's sake what difference does that make she said well if it's on post it's an MP matter
00:39:42
military police matter I said it is on post she said well you have to contact the military police and with that he
00:39:50
says I just laid down the phone or dropped the phone he says I went back to Kimberly and I went back to Christy
00:39:58
check them for pulses and possibly gave them mouth to mouth again that part's a little confusing to me Captain because
00:40:05
it seems to me like he's already decided there's nothing more he could do for at
00:40:10
least two of these three victims I don't want to bring up too many things that I
00:40:14
find suspicious because that's something that we're going to be going over but the fact that he he does all these
00:40:20
things and checks on so many people before he tries to call for help it's definitely something that I think needs
00:40:27
to be noted he goes on to say that he didn't get any pulses and again he says he finds himself standing in the hallway
00:40:35
saying to himself what's going to happen he says that he then went to the kitchen
00:40:40
there's there's another phone in the kitchen area he says I went to the kitchen phone through the dining room
00:40:46
picked up the phone and the operator was already on the line she had never broken the connection he
00:40:54
says I said this is Captain McDonald at 544 Castle Drive just a minute I'll connect you to the MPS there apparently
00:41:05
that's what she's saying to him he says that he heard some dial tones and clicks and then a military police
00:41:12
officer came on the line and said can I help you McDonald's says I said people have been stabbed and I asked repeatedly
00:41:21
for an MP for doctors and ambulances I told them I'm at 544 Castle Drive he said they're on their way McDonald's
00:41:31
says again he dropped the phone at this time he says I'm all covered in blood from the kids and from Colette I rinsed
00:41:42
off in the sink I started out of the kitchen and that's really the last thing I remember the
00:41:49
next thing I remember so he's blacking out again the next thing I remember I was being given mouth to mouth by an MP
00:41:58
officer when I was awakened I was right next to my wife on the floor in the master bedroom I remember there's people
00:42:06
all around me and all I could see was the MP shiny helmets I saw this circle of people and they
00:42:16
were all talking yelling and screaming put that down don't touch her they put me on a stretcher I kept asking about my
00:42:24
kids everyone kept telling me everyone's okay they took me to a hospital where they were treating me
00:42:34
he said everyone during the treatment process kept telling him to calm down that everyone's okay but finally a
00:42:42
doctor came in to check on him and he says it was a doctor that he knew and had worked with at one point and he said
00:42:49
I kept asking him over and over how are they he said no one's told you I said no
00:42:55
he said they're all dead he paused and said I'm sorry to tell you yeah McDonald says I was crying for a
00:43:04
while then the doctor came back in and asked what he could do and McDonald's said call my mother and call my in-laws
00:43:12
and have them come right away but don't tell them what happened but question for
00:43:18
you because the the the initial 9-1-1 call talking to the operator putting the phone down going to the hallway coming
00:43:26
back talking to the operator putting the phone down again does that remind you of
00:43:30
any case that we've covered hmm it reminds me a lot of the the Scott Peterson the the staircase murders
00:43:40
that's right where the 911 call where it seems like he's panicking but then he's
00:43:46
backing away from the call and then getting back on the call Oddly enough another military man as well yeah now
00:43:54
according to just general knowledge this is all agreed upon by all parties involved on February 17th at 3 42 a.m
00:44:05
you know because we do not have McDonald filling Us in with any exact times here
00:44:10
when all of this is taking place right so at 3 42 a.m dispatchers at Fort Bragg were notified by a chief operator of the
00:44:21
Carolina telephone company regarding a call for help that they received the operator patched the call through to
00:44:27
Fort Bragg where Jeffrey McDonald reported that quote some people had been stabbed at his res evidence and that he
00:44:35
needed MPS and Medics and ambulances when the MP and Medics arrived McDonald was found on the master bedroom floor
00:44:43
lying partially on his stomach with one of his arms across Colette's upper body McDonald tells MPS and Medics that he
00:44:52
and his family were attacked by four hippies and will Circle back to that real quickly McDonald is then
00:44:59
transferred to Cape Fear Hospital for treatment Colette Kimberly and Kristen are all pronounced dead they are
00:45:07
transferred to the morgue at Cape Fear Hospital it's interesting how many cases are similar but this one is kind of
00:45:15
amalgamation of multiple cases of one the Chris Watts case the the Scott Peterson case and and then you mix in
00:45:24
the Sam Shepard case and now you have the Jeffrey McDonald case so some things real quick that I want to touch on in
00:45:30
his account that might clear some things up it might just muddy the water is even
00:45:35
more I don't know but as the captain said we're going to go through this in a very compartmentalized way
00:45:41
but I wanted to touch on some of these things before we simply forget to get to them so he says the very basic General
00:45:49
description that's in the papers and put out to everybody immediately is that this Jeffrey McDonald this respected
00:45:57
doctor this respected Green Beret member of the army he says that we are attacked by four
00:46:04
hippies there's some pretty major dispute going on if that was in fact what he said because people this case is
00:46:14
one of the most debated cases I think to to to date I mean it's up there with any of the other
00:46:22
ones that you hear people that that start off having a very intelligent discussion
00:46:29
that heightens to yelling and screaming matches because people are so decided one way or the other did Jeffrey
00:46:36
McDonald kill his family or did this group of four hippies kill his family like he says yeah some people would say
00:46:43
it's so debatable that to debate itself you'd have to be a master debater well one of the very first things that
00:46:52
comes into question is he gives a description of the attackers and people are saying well he's calling
00:47:00
them hippies yet one of them had on an army fatigue jacket to which he says he noticed sergeant stripes yeah but look
00:47:08
we've all seen Forrest Gump right when he goes to the Capitol and he and they have the protesters they have the
00:47:15
hippies protesting Vietnam and he gets mixed up in them there's a lot of so-called you know quote-unquote hippies
00:47:22
and what were they wearing they're wearing Army fatigues it was very fashionable and the mid 60s to to mid
00:47:31
70s well and I think the description of hippie sometimes can be open to interpretation a little bit yeah or go
00:47:40
go see a bunch of footage of John Lennon performing and he's constantly wearing what Army fatigues and he's he was the
00:47:47
definition the the biggest icon of the hippie movement well in what McDonald would later say is I never said the word
00:47:55
hippies I never said it was four hippies I simply described the four people that
00:47:59
I saw right and somebody from the Army or somebody from the newspaper changed it to a very General description of four
00:48:07
hippies now I can kind of believe that because we've been doing this long enough Captain I've seen things get
00:48:13
skewed in the news and in the papers because it sells copies we've talked about it many times it gets clicks on
00:48:20
the internet obviously that's not a concern Back in 1970 but it also gets people talking and it gets people tuning
00:48:27
into the news what would have been on everyone's Minds is what we just talked about earlier the Manson family yeah
00:48:34
Sharon Tate yeah the crazy hippies that broke into Holmes and murdered everybody
00:48:38
inside and and wrote things on the walls yeah and I I bet if you look back at what of whatever articles were written
00:48:46
about the Manson family and these quote unquote so-called hippies if that was lingo that was used in those reports
00:48:53
that's why that lingo was used in this case now very interestingly though we have a similar situation here at the
00:49:03
McDonald home after the attack so all four of the people are attacked inside the home three of them are left
00:49:10
dead and on the wall in the bedroom I apologize not on the wall it was on the headboard to the the bed in the master
00:49:19
bedroom somebody wrote the word Pig in blood right which is with Colette's blood we
00:49:26
would later figure out yeah which is something that was rumored I don't think it was confirmed in the the Manson
00:49:32
Murders but supposedly there was the words Pig Written in Blood and those murders as well well yeah and that that
00:49:41
definitely happened in both of those well I'm just saying actions at the time of this murder since the trial didn't
00:49:48
happen I just wonder if that was actually confirmed you see what I'm saying yeah and this we should be clear
00:49:55
here we already pointed out that this account that he's given is an account that he is given to an a person
00:50:03
conducting an interview a reporter this is not his words to the MPS when he's interviewed right after the attack
00:50:12
although he would tell us that this is the same thing that he told the military police right I've seen that version it
00:50:19
is very similar but the things that that are a little wonky again the word hippies he says he never used the word
00:50:26
hippies and second it's very quickly pointed out to McDonald during the investigation that the triple homicide
00:50:35
investigation that are you sure that this woman was holding a candle and in his initial statement he does say candle
00:50:43
I believe she was holding a candle because I saw some kind of flickering glowing light on her face they say you
00:50:50
know we didn't find any evidence of of wax of candle wax in the living room right but just because she's holding a
00:51:00
candle doesn't mean that they're going to find wax on the floor well and this is what's interesting he may have been
00:51:05
altering his statement to play along with what they were finding or not finding at the scene because in this
00:51:12
interview he's saying it may have been a flashlight I don't know I didn't see a candle I didn't see a flashlight I
00:51:18
simply saw the light shining up on her face yes it could be multiple things it could be a a candle it could be a
00:51:26
flashlight it could be a knife that was somehow reflecting light onto her face as said McDonald's mother is called and
00:51:35
his in-laws are called they obviously rush to Fort Bragg and unfortunately there's going to be funeral services
00:51:44
held for three on February 21st a little background story though to talk about Freddy and Mildred kasab
00:51:55
so this is his in-laws right Colette's father died when she was very young and Freddie casab married her mother when
00:52:05
Colette was still pretty young and remember we said that these two had a relationship in high school they were
00:52:11
friends boyfriend girlfriend that sort of thing on and off the kasabs Freddie and Mildred knew Jeffrey well well
00:52:20
before the two ever got married and this Freddy kassab I look him up sometime or
00:52:27
if you read up want to read further on this case you'll find the same thing I believe you'll find the same thing that
00:52:32
I thought this guy is he's a very likable guy but he's also very personable he seems to be
00:52:40
very personable with everybody and what I mean is that he treated Mildred's daughters and and her children as if
00:52:48
they were his own and he he raised they loved him dearly and Freddie kassab loved Jeffrey McDonald dearly and
00:52:58
immediately after this this was a weird case because they're going to go and look for these whatever you
00:53:06
want to call them four hippies the MPS are they're not going to find anybody they don't find anybody matching that
00:53:13
description they don't arrest anybody matching that description and after days and days
00:53:19
people go from feeling bad for Jeffrey McDonald to deciding well maybe he is lying maybe he's the one that is
00:53:29
responsible for the murder of his family and it's Freddy kassab his father-in-law
00:53:36
I think this is a rare thing I don't think we've seen this in a lot of cases Captain right Freddie casab goes to bat
00:53:43
for Jeffrey McDonald 100 stands by this guy he says you know you you'd have to be crazy to think that Jeffrey McDonald
00:53:51
would kill his family he was very vocal about it and he stood in front of the media and the newspapers and told all of
00:53:58
them that they are crazy for claiming that Jeffrey McDonald would kill his fam right because normally what happens
00:54:05
oh well they had some fights they had some money problems uh my my son-in-law he was a little bit
00:54:12
of a hot head right that's normally what you hear that it's a possibility or we couldn't believe it at all with the
00:54:21
other Scott Pearson case right couldn't believe it at all but then more things that are uncovered you start going well
00:54:28
maybe this is a possibility yes maybe it is a possibility and then you have to go
00:54:34
well if he did do it what is the motive for it there's that is another question mark
00:54:40
another big question mark in this case did he have a motive to kill his family some say that it was because he was
00:54:46
angered that the child wet his bed and then it started as a small argument that escalated greatly again this uh you
00:54:57
know the more and more and I know that you have been uh researching cases years before I ever
00:55:05
did but again this guy you're gonna tell me that this guy his daughter probably wet the bed
00:55:13
multiple times but he went to go to bed and and she wet the bed and he he decided to then kill everybody and then
00:55:20
he's gonna make up this story about these Intruders and it's it's very similar to JonBenet
00:55:26
Ramsey oh JonBenet Ramsey wet the bed and so the mother decided Well she has to die and Colette we should point out
00:55:34
was pregnant with what would have been the third child for the McDonald family and did they know what the sex was I
00:55:43
believe this time it was going to be a boy so she was well into her pregnancy and look McDonald had affairs he went
00:55:52
outside of his marriage not once not twice probably I I don't want to put a number on it 5 000 million I'm not going
00:56:01
to put a number on it I I don't know for certain but I know that it was as gajillion of a number according to all
00:56:07
the reports and everything that I've read over the years that it was multiple times well hold on let's get this out of
00:56:13
the way so he's a scumbag cheater right but well anyway it was known to some people that that Colette and Jeffrey had
00:56:22
argued and fought about this type of cheating behavior before that it was kind of a long ongoing argument so so
00:56:31
he's a cheater we know that she was it's like the common thread the guy is a cheater then he murders his
00:56:39
wife and sometimes he murders his family but is there any financial troubles I mean he they're living
00:56:46
on Fort Bragg and he's a surgeon so he probably makes decent money as a Green Beret surgeon I
00:56:55
don't think that we have any kind of money issues I mean he purchased a horse for his daughters for Christmas Rusty
00:57:01
just months before this and I think that there's not money issues because look one given the time period 1970 people
00:57:09
spent their money and lived a little quite a bit differently actually back then than they do today but take that a
00:57:16
step further they're living in officer housing he is working in his profession that
00:57:23
will pay him handsomely at some point being a surgeon they're just a young family you know
00:57:30
they're just a young family with two little kids and they're they're coming up through the world they're building
00:57:35
their family they're building their their life and you know so if if money was an issue I don't think it would be a
00:57:43
long-term issue right I also wonder if his father-in-law knew about his infidelity I believe that he did and I
00:57:52
say that because it's obvious to me that Colette had expressed the difficulties in the the trouble with her marriage to
00:58:01
her mother and given Freddie casab's personality him being so personable and so loving
00:58:10
and trusting to his wife and and her children this is not a guy that it strikes me that you keep stuff from this
00:58:17
guy when he walks into a room it's very obvious he's in charge of the whole room he he takes over a room in
00:58:25
that manner but he's also like I said extremely personable and loyal to the people around him this all took place as
00:58:33
said captain on February 16th and 17th 1970 it wouldn't be until July of 1970 when Jeffrey McDonald is going to have
00:58:44
to go to trial for the murders of his family and I and I should clear that up and clean that up a bit because that's
00:58:53
not exactly what's happening here it's it's what the Army calls in article 32 hearing to the civilians out there I
00:59:03
would liken this to like kind of like a grand jury hearing where we're going to decide if there's enough evidence here
00:59:11
to charge this guy and bring him to court but because it took place at Fort Bragg on Military property it's the
00:59:20
military's jurisdiction yeah so hold on a second so what we have is a guy that claims that these Intruders
00:59:28
killed his family but it doesn't seem like we have a lot of evidence that there's even Intruders
00:59:34
in the house so as far as the investigation goes that's kind of why they're forced into this
00:59:41
you know hey we we don't have much evidence that there's even other individuals there
00:59:48
so now we need to look at the most likely suspect in a crime like this the husband and then from that they're
00:59:58
trying to determine if there's enough evidence against him to take him to trial the short of it Captain regarding
01:00:05
this article 32 hearing that's conducted by the military they decide that there's
01:00:11
really not enough evidence to go forward and try Jeffrey McDonald for the murders
01:00:17
of his family in fact they dismissed the case with the suggestion that the MPS or
01:00:27
maybe even civilian police and law enforcement agencies look for these four people that
01:00:37
McDonald's says broke into the apartment and murdered the family I mean cases especially that are this horrifying you
01:00:45
want to get them right because if you don't get it right you can't ever charge him again and I think this is one of
01:00:51
those cases where we can spend the time doing the storytelling and telling you what happened and how it played out and
01:00:58
this thing was a monster of a story to tell because it's a story that that spans decades and decades right of
01:01:07
action in and outside of the courtroom and we'll get back to the storytelling portion a bit but what I think is really
01:01:14
key here in this case is that we look at what we know we look at the facts we examine it here in the garage and see
01:01:23
what our opinions are as well as the listeners out there to figure out if Jeffrey McDonald is in fact guilty of of
01:01:33
these murders so let's start with the autopsies so the following is a list of wounds that were inflicted upon the
01:01:43
McDonald family and we'll go through these victim by victim starting with Colette McDonald
01:01:50
Colette sustained several blunt trauma injuries to her head and arms she was struck at least six times in the head
01:01:59
with a blunt object resulting in lacerations to her right Temple left temple forehead and on top of her head
01:02:08
all of these lacerations were deep enough to expose bone she also received two blows under her chin resulting in
01:02:16
extensive bruising to the left front chin area and the right front chin area there was a small fracture in the
01:02:24
midline portion of Colette's skull the blunt trauma injuries to Colette's arms were defensive type wounds you see that
01:02:31
very often so you're seeing obvious signs of she was attacked with a club or something of that nature struck in
01:02:41
her head area and she's trying to block these blows during this scuffle using her hands and
01:02:49
forearms right and what's interesting here is these injuries the blunt force trauma to
01:02:56
her head would be consistent with Jeffrey McDonald what he says he was attacked with in the living room yeah
01:03:03
and to believe his story you have to believe that somebody started to attack her and that she woke up then she
01:03:12
defended herself Colette's right wrist was fractured and the inner aspect of her upper arm bore an extensive bruise
01:03:20
and a superficial abrasion the fingers and hand of her right arm had extensive black and blue marks associated with
01:03:29
abrasion so this is not a a one and done attack that happened very quickly this is a fight right that we're seeing here
01:03:37
we know this by Colette's injuries her left arm was also fractured in two places so defending herself and being
01:03:46
struck so hard that whatever she's being hit with is breaking bone as she's trying to fend it off does law
01:03:53
enforcement have any clue to what this object would be yes in fact it's believed that all of the murder weapons
01:04:01
and I say all because there are different types of attacks here right different types of wounds indicating
01:04:08
different murder weapons all of them were found at the crime scene so one was a it's been referred to as a
01:04:19
club and some statements McDonald says that he believed he was being hit with a bat the best way to describe this
01:04:26
quote-unquote club is it's like a slat that you would use for a bed and it's believed well I shouldn't
01:04:35
say believed it seems to be damn near 100 proven that this wood this wooden slat came from the master bed
01:04:44
from Jeffrey and his wife's bed in the master bedroom noted Colette also had nine deep knife wounds to the front of
01:04:53
her neck and seven deep knife wounds to her chest and 21 puncture wounds to her chest area and but you were also saying
01:05:01
that the the knife was found at the scene of the crime as well yeah so from my understanding here Captain what we
01:05:07
have is we have uh four murder weapons one is that club that we just kind of described which you think is a slack
01:05:16
that came from the master bed that's that's what investigators have stated so do investigators also believe that the
01:05:23
not only the slack comes from the house but the knife comes from the house as well so there were two knives and an ice
01:05:31
pick so those are your four murder weapons remember McDonald's account he pulled
01:05:38
the knife out of Colette's chest and just kind of tossed it or threw it down so that goes what they find at the scene
01:05:45
backs up his story for that portion at least that one sentence because they find a knife in the master bedroom on
01:05:53
the floor but they find the club The Ice Pick and a knife outside of the apartment so they
01:06:03
find them basically what you would call the backyard even though this is a shared space right they have a front
01:06:09
door to the apartment and a back door to the apartment when officers arrived at the scene they
01:06:16
found the front door locked and secured they found the back door open and it's right at a bush near this back door at
01:06:26
the base of a bush where they find these murder weapons like so if four people went into the house killed this family
01:06:33
they must have got in through this back door maybe it was left unlocked and when they left they of course left
01:06:41
the back door unlocked left the door slightly ajar and it would appear that they just tossed the weapons down as
01:06:49
they were fleeing the apartment but you're right Captain one very difficult thing that I have with this story is
01:06:58
that McDonald's says that he didn't recognize some of these items and yet the MPS and the detectives would tell us
01:07:08
that they believe that they have reason to believe that all of these items came from the McDonald family from from their
01:07:15
home right you have to picture this this story starts to become very incredible very fast did these four
01:07:23
individuals happen to find an unlocked back door to the McDonald family home enter with no weapons
01:07:32
go around the house collecting weapons of Their Own and then using these weapons on the
01:07:38
family and then toss them aside as they flee the crime scene it could have been a mixture of both yeah I mean they could
01:07:45
have found some of the items there they could have brought maybe one or both of the knives with them but the the police
01:07:52
and law enforcement have said the knives belong to the McDonald family is that because they think they're a part of a
01:07:59
set the answer is I I do not know what they're basing this off of I don't have any reason to not believe this statement
01:08:06
because this thing has gone to trial you know the article 32 hearing and then we
01:08:11
have the actual trial of Jeffrey McDonald later and it seems to be agreed upon that that
01:08:18
these items came from the apartment Kimberly McDonald was struck at least three times in the head with a blunt
01:08:25
object Kimberly's right cheek right ear and right mastoid area had overlapping black and blue marks and irregular
01:08:34
abrasions her right eye was recessed and she had a fractured nose which was deviated to the right her left cheekbone
01:08:43
was fractured and a piece of the cheekbone was protruding through the skin Kimberly skull showed multiple
01:08:50
fractures in the dome portion of her skull was fractured through its entire thickness it's it's horrific to describe
01:08:59
these things and and I I hate having to say these words but to put it simply her
01:09:04
head was bashed in I mean that's how brutally she was attacked and they found eight to ten deep knife wounds on the
01:09:12
right side of her neck this is one of those weird cases captain and again I'll throw this warning out to you because
01:09:19
you cannot unsee these things you can find crime scene photographs colored photographs online of the McDonald crime
01:09:31
scene unfortunately you can see these victims pictures of these victims how they were found that night when MPS
01:09:40
responded to the call Kristen McDonald sustained 12 knife wounds to her upper back four wounds to her chest and one to
01:09:48
the neck two of the wounds to her back penetrated her heart causing massive internal bleeding
01:09:56
15 shallow puncture wounds were found in her chest as well as multiple cuts on both of her hands there was a through
01:10:04
and through laceration of the skin involving the middle of the right ring finger so
01:10:11
this young girl is attacked she stabbed as said but again we're seeing obvious signs of defensive wounds here the she
01:10:22
has these wounds to her hands and fingers because she's putting them up trying to prevent whatever attack is
01:10:30
going on at that time you know the knife attack the laceration that we just discussed about the middle of the right
01:10:38
ring finger was deep enough to expose bone and the index finger of the right hand revealed a triangular flap of skin
01:10:45
so using the hands to try to fend off this attack this brings us to Jeffrey McDonald the
01:10:52
man that says that he was sleeping on the couch and wakes up in the middle of the night and he's being attacked by
01:10:57
three men in the living room he says that he's attacked there he says that he hears his wife screaming in the
01:11:04
bedroom he hears his daughter screaming in her bedroom now his injuries are as such McDonald's sustained bruising over
01:11:11
the left eye beneath the hairline a stab wound of the upper left arm a stab wound
01:11:18
of the left bicep he also received a laceration of the left index finger and a stab wound to the left abdomen in the
01:11:29
form of an upside down V if you can picture that several small puncture type wounds were present on the upper left
01:11:37
chest remember he said when he came to he was confused that would be from the strikes the blows to
01:11:44
the head he said that it became increasingly more difficult to breathe well this is going to be because he
01:11:52
stabbed in the abdomen in the chest area and one of these stabs is powerful enough it went between two of the ribs
01:12:03
on the right side of his chest which resulted in a collapse right lung so of course he's having difficulty breathing
01:12:12
during this time we went through all of that for me to say and I don't want to speak for the
01:12:19
captain here because again this is a case that everybody has their own opinion on it and some of them are very
01:12:24
strong some people are very strong in their opinions on this case but we go through all of that for me to tell you
01:12:30
this what I see here and what I question here is I have three female victims Colette and her two small young
01:12:40
daughters on these three individuals I see Overkill yeah on Jeffrey McDonald I see
01:12:48
exactly what he described in his defense it's exactly as he would describe it wounds I would expect to see on him
01:12:56
given his account of what happened however how does four people kill three individuals so brutally to the point
01:13:06
that they're their bodies their clothing their beds are covered in blood yeah and the one
01:13:13
major threat you have in this house I was just going to say that is the Green Beret that's sleeping on the couch
01:13:20
and he does not have anywhere near the number of blows stabs blood on him yeah because look if if you're
01:13:30
one of The Intruders you don't know who this guy is you're you're on Fort Bragg if you don't
01:13:37
know who this guy is all you can assume that is he's an officer of the military right
01:13:45
and maybe if you know anything about Fort Bragg maybe you know he is a part of the green braids I don't know if they
01:13:52
separate the people like that in the housing let's take that all out of account any Intruder that goes into any
01:14:00
house who's their biggest threat to them the two-year-old girl the five-year-old
01:14:06
girl the mother or the husband probably the husband and you're going to have what he tells
01:14:16
you at least two males and a female in the same room to attack him with multiple weapons
01:14:24
and like you said the other ones their their bodies are mangled and he somehow is alive yeah we know
01:14:32
this from seeing these other attacks in other cases where people break into a home
01:14:39
or you know home invasion type cases BTK type cases the first thing that they do is neutralize the threat Jeffrey
01:14:51
McDonald is the number one threat to these Intruders maybe they neutralized him it seems like
01:14:59
they if we believe McDonald that they did a good job to neutralize him let's say that but then why the overkill on
01:15:07
these other three individuals why didn't they finish the job on Jeffrey McDonald are
01:15:14
we to believe McDonald that he just was able to fight them off better than his other family members
01:15:26
foreign [Music] us back here in the garage tomorrow same bat Time same bat Channel and until then
01:15:36
be good be kind and don't litter [Music] thank you foreign