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Heat. [Music] Heat. [Music] Welcome to True Crime Garage. Wherever you are, whatever you are doing, thanks
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for listening. I'm your host, Nick, and with me is a man that has been nicknamed
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the goat, but not because he's like Tom Brady, because we once caught him eating
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grass. He is the captain. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks for listening. Thanks for sharing on social
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media. It's good to be seen and it's good to see you. Does that mean you're a vegetarian, Captain?
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Nothing goes better with grass than a nice cold beer. In the garage, we are drinking Fuzzy
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Baby Ducks IPA by New England Brewing Company. Garage Grade, four and a half bottle caps out of five. What a
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fantastic Citra Single Hop IPA. One of Connecticut's finest beers from one of their finest breweries. Fuzzy Ducks was
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brought to us by some of our warm and fuzzy friends. First, we have Lisa all the way from Bergen, Norway. Next, we
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have Jen and Sydney from Cincinnati, Ohio, who recommend Ringist Truth. Well, we have recommended Ryu Truth. We
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actually have some Ryan Truth in the refrigerator right now. >> And we've recommended Ryan Gist fiction
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as well on True Crime Garage. So, thanks to Jen and Sydney down in the natty. >> And a big thank you to Penny Lynn up in
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Saskatchewan. >> In parts unknown, we have Andrew who says, "I love listening in my car, but
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the other day it was my turn to drive to lunch and my co-workers hopped in my car
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just in time to hear about a strangulation." So, that happened. Andrew also says he loves the tunes on
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the show. Next, we go all the way to Taiwan. I think this is a true crime garage first here, Captain. We have Yan
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in Taipei City, Taiwan. Yan says, "Drink some more beer and keep up the great work." We also have Rebecca from
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Baltimore, Maryland. And finally, we have Marissa from Berwin, Illinois. >> Yes, Marissa says, "Try some Spotted Cow
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from Wisconsin. It's the official beer of the Green Bay Packers." >> Yeah, done and done. I actually have a
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friend uh his wife is from up there. So, she brings home spotted cow a couple times a year. So, I've I've had it
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multiple times. >> Why has it not made it to the garage fridge? >> I don't know. Ask Justin. You just ask
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Justin. >> Okay. Well, we'll we'll check in with Justin. So, thank you to everybody for
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buying the beer for this week's show. And if you want to buy us around for next week's show, go to true
00:03:04
crimegar.com and click on the donate button. >> And like always, follow us on social
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media, Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Snapchat. I've been kind of lazy about the Snapchat. I was doing the Brian
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Wilson Snapchats in the morning. But uh if you want any information on what Nick
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is drinking, he is on Untapped. >> Yes, it's like Facebook for drunks. >> And like always, big kiss big like your
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jib for all the support that we get. All right, everybody gather around, grab a chair, grab a beer, and let's talk some
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true crime. Heat. [Music] Heat. [Music] 911. What's the location of the emergency?
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>> Sandy Hook School. I think there's somebody shooting in here. Sandy Hook School.
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>> Okay. What makes you think that? >> Because somebody's got a gun. I saw a glimpse of somebody. They're running
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down the hallway. >> They're still around. They're still shooting. Sandy Hook School, please
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[Music] >> in town 911. What's the address now? >> It's 10 Dickinson Drive and Sandy Hook,
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New Town, Connecticut. >> Okay. What's going on at 10 Dickinson Drive? >> It sounds like there are bunch of us in
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the hallway. I'm a teacher in the school. >> Okay. Where are you in the school right
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now? >> I am in the school. I'm in your classroom. >> Okay. Do you have everyone in the
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classroom and the door? >> All of my students. The door is not locked yet. I have to go.
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>> Okay. Tell me. Keep everybody calm. Keep everybody down. Get everybody away from
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the windows. Okay. >> Yes. >> Okay. >> Where are you in the school? >> I'm in the the hallway when you walk in
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the front entrance if you take a left. >> Okay. >> Try to lock down the school. Okay.
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>> We're trying. Okay. >> All right. Byebye. >> John 911. What's the location of your
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emergency? >> Baby Hook Elementary School. 12 Dickensson Drive. >> Okay. I've got that. What's going on
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down there? >> This I believe they're shooting at the front at the front glass. Something's
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going on. All right, I've got I want you to stand on the line of me. Where are you in the school?
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>> I'm dead down the corridor. >> All right, I want you to take cover. Jen, get the sergeant.
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>> All right, get everybody you can going down there. All right, let me let me get
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some information. What makes you think that? >> The phone was all shot out. It kept kept
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going on. >> Okay, [Music] >> it's still happening. All right. >> All right. What about the students in
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the front of the building? >> Everything's locked up as far as I know. I'm not in the front.
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>> All right. You're in lockdown. Do you >> Yeah, they're in lockdown. >> Did you see anything out the window?
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>> No, it's still going on. I can't get over there. >> Okay. I don't want you to go over there.
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I want to know what's happening with the students though along the front corridor. Is this is in the front
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parking lot? >> Yes. I'm not I'm not in the front. I'm actually down the other part,
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>> but I'm close. Okay. Do you see anything or hear anything more? >> I keep hearing shooting. I can't keep
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hearing popping. [Music] >> Guys, guys, shooting at the Sandy Hook Elementary School in Midtown 911.
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I'm going to >> All right, J. Let's get one. Let's get one caller. I'll take my caller. You
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>> know, >> all right. Now, who am I talking with right now? >> Pardon me. What's your name?
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>> Rick Storm. >> Rick Storm. All right. Rick, what is your position with the school?
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>> I'm the uh I'm acting heading >> What's the address of the school? >> 12. >> Okay.
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>> Something's happening. >> Okay. >> Jen, hang up. I need you to get off that phone.
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>> All right, Rick. Yes. >> All right. What are you hearing now? >> Uh, it's now it's silent.
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>> Okay. >> That's Riverside Road. >> All right. Now, when you say the school is in lockdown,
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>> locks are in classrooms. >> Okay. >> Sir, at this time, you're defending in place.
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>> Excuse me. >> Okay. At this time, all the rooms are locked. >> Yeah, correct.
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>> Okay. Did you see anything out front before this started? >> No, I was out all morning.
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>> Where are you in the >> Okay. The gym teacher told me they saw shadows going past the gym.
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>> Just now? >> Yes. >> All right. Now, are they running on the outside or the inside?
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>> I would say that was the outside. Roger. >> There's still shooting going on, please.
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>> All right. What about injuries at this time? >> Excuse me. >> What about injuries at this time?
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>> I don't know of any injuries right now. >> Okay. >> Yeah, we got them. They're coming at
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you. [Music] Come up the driveway. Left side. [Music] >> Jen, I need you to call the state
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police. Just [Music] >> still still going on. >> This town 911. What's he asking for
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today? >> This is the state police. I got uh a victim victim from the shooter here.
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>> Yep. >> She's been shot once in the foot. >> She's been shot once in the foot.
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>> She's in other places. >> Room number one. >> Room number one. >> Yep. >> Uh one shot in room number one.
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>> How close are you guys to uh arriving on scene? >> What? >> How close are you guys?
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>> Female shot uh in the foot. >> You got a female party shot in the foot. >> Yep. She's in five. Right by Right by
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the playground, room number one. >> Oh, I know that. Okay. Where uh where are you? Are you okay right now?
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>> Yeah. >> Okay. Where where where is room one in the school? >> Facing the playground.
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>> Where are you? >> Facing the playground. >> On the playground. >> Facing towards
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the playground. >> Okay. Are you safe right now? >> Uh I think so. My classroom door is not
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locked. >> Okay. Is there anybody that can lock the classroom door without being safe to do
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so? Okay. All right. Just try to stay where you are. Okay. >> Yeah. There's children in this room,
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too. >> Okay. Try to apply pressure. Okay. >> Yeah. >> Okay. We have people coming. Okay.
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>> Uh-huh. >> All right. >> Is there any other PE teacher with you in there or is just students?
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>> Uh, no. There's two other adults in the room with you. >> Okay. All right. Are they are they right
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next to you or where are they in the room? No, they're they're over on the other side of the bookshelf.
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>> Okay. All right. Are you okay right now >> for now? Hopefully. >> Okay. All right. Just keep an eye on it.
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Try to keep pressure on it. Okay. We have people heading out there. >> Okay. Bye-bye.
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[Music] On Friday, December 14th, 2012, 20-year-old Adam Peter Lanza woke up, gathered some of his things, shot his
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mother four times in the head as she lie in bed in her pajamas, probably still asleep, left the 22 caliber savage
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boltaction rifle that he used to kill his mother in her room. And at sometime around 9:30 a.m., he got into his
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mother's Honda sedan and drove off. >> This event is very tragic and horrific, but a lot of the events and a lot of the
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details will be questioned, >> especially this next part here because the thought is that Adam planned to
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drive to the New Town High School. And I can't prove this, but it has been reported that someone close to the
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investigation has said that a vehicle matching the description to the vehicle that Adam was driving that morning had
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drove near the high school but never entered the parking lot. There were two police cars in the high school's parking
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lot. If this vehicle was in fact the car that Adam was driving, he may have seen
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the police officer's vehicles and changed his plans at the last minute. And if this is the case, I mean, we we
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will never know. Uh, but he instead drove to the Sandy Hook Elementary School, which was just a short 5-minute
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drive from the Lanza's home. >> Very interesting that there was some speculation that he wanted to go to the
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high school, but Adam ends up at Sandy Hook Elementary School around 9:30, 9:35.
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>> Yeah. Adam gets out of the vehicle. He leaves the door open the doors open. He
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parked near the fire lane. uh he left a shotgun along with ammunition in the vehicle.
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>> This it's been thought that if he were to go into the school and do whatever he
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was planning that if once first responders started to arrive that he would have an option to go back to that
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vehicle, retrieve that firearm and make a stand there in the parking lot. There's a couple reports and you'll see
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this constantly as far as and we'll get into some of the conspiracy stuff later,
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but there is a lot of reports stating that it wasn't a shotgun left in the car, that it was actually the AR-15. Uh,
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and that is not correct. It was actually the shotgun left in his vehicle. Adam was wearing black clothing. He had
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earplugs, sunglasses, and a green utility vest. Inside the vest, he had 10 magazines, each of them with 30 rounds
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of ammunition in them. He had two pistols in his militarystyle cargo pants. Uh, there was no one going in or
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out of the school at this time. >> Adam Lanza using his mother's Bushmaster XM15
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E2S rifle. Uh, he shot out the glass. They had security doors that were basically locked that you couldn't get
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in without granting permission. Um, and he shot out the glass panels on these locked two front doors. In a in a single
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second, he fired six shells into the glass. This creating a hole large enough for him to walk through. Anybody that
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has kids, uh, nephews, nieces, anybody knows that when you go to these schools now, almost every school that I've been
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to, they have to actually buzz you in. So, you get to the front doors, they're locked. You have to They buzz you in.
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You're on camera. you have to identify who you are >> and this is definitely a step in the
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right direction from when we were in school. I mean it's these are setting in place certain precautions so that the
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the bad elements don't make it in to the school >> near the front entrance. Uh several of
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the faculty members were engaged into a meeting. >> Yeah. And Adam actually briefly stopped
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there for a minute. And this is where the staff now knows that the pops that they had just heard were actually
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gunshots because they can see the man and they can see the firearms. In this commotion, someone accidentally tripped
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the switch to the PA or the intercom system. This is now projecting the noises and the voices that would be
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heard from this room in this area to the rest of the school. By this time, 911 calls are starting to be placed. Well,
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and maybe it's not an accident. Maybe it was this is a way to let everybody else
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in the school know what is going on. >> Yeah. I I think it's kind of maybe a uh you know kind of an angel or God
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stepping in a little bit to to give some kind of warning to the rest of the school because the person that that
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accidentally hit the switch uh did survive uh this this event and and said that they had accidentally hit the
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switch when they were trying to run to the phone to to call 911. Adam is now inside Sandy Hook Elementary School and
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the first 911 call has been placed. In the hallway, we have Principal Don Hot. Hotsprung, teacher Natalie Hammond, and
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psychologist Mary Sherlock. Now, they are confronted by the shooter here. Principal Dawn, she lunges at the
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shooter trying to grab the gun in a in a moment of bravery trying to save everybody. Um, she's unable to do so and
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Adam shot her several times. He then turns the gun on the psychologist. Natalie Hammond was shot several times,
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but she was lying on the floor. She lay very still on the floor until the shooter left the area. Afterward, Adam
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went down the hallway toward the first grade classroom. >> Natalie Hammond would actually survive
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this attack. >> Yeah, but the principal Hoffsprung and psychologist Sherlock did not. As we
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know, in these situations, people do not always know what is going on. And you of
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course don't wake up in the morning expecting to hear gunshots that day. So when you do, it's not always clear what
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you may have heard, but also in this situation, we have some very young kids at school. And of course, some of them
00:17:02
are just too young to comprehend what is going on. So some of the kids that are hearing this gunfire, now mind you, it's
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the noises are still going off over the intercom system. Um, some of these kids are saying things like they think maybe
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the army is at the school or that there's an animal loose in the school. It's an unbelievably sad situation as
00:17:24
this whole situation is. But please, please keep in mind there is only one monster here. There is only one
00:17:31
unbelievably horrible person here. There are many, many honorable, brave heroes in the story. We have teachers,
00:17:38
administrators, and faculty members that are doing everything that they can to try to save children's lives or save the
00:17:45
lives of their co-workers. There are teachers who are hiding children, retreating to other spaces with kids. We
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have the principal who attempted to disarm the shooter. There's the custodian, Rick Thorne, who ran down the
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halls warning everyone that there's a shooter in the building. He was locking doors and telling teachers and children
00:18:04
to get down and hide. >> Uh teacher Victoria Sodto barricaded kids in in a closet and told many of
00:18:12
them to hide under desk. >> Well, you can hear on the 911 tapes, uh when the janitor is calling, there's
00:18:18
gunshots happening in the background. Uh again, this is, you know, not to bring up the conspiracy thing too much because
00:18:26
we will talk more about it later, but a lot of people believe that those on those 911 calls that those gunshots are
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fake. But those those gunshots are not fake, people. And that guy was running and trying to communicate with the 911
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dispatcher as shots are being fired, as he's moving around the building. And uh that is called bravery and that's
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something uh we should commend him for. >> Not only did teacher Victoria Sodto barricade kids in a closet and telling
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other children to get under desk, but she ultimately ended up putting herself between the shooter and the kids and he
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fatally shot her for doing so when all the teachers were trying to keep the students calm, which is a lot more
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difficult when you have younger students not knowing what is going on. >> Yeah. And some of the teachers did this
00:19:15
by praying with them or praying for them uh out loud uh by telling them nice and
00:19:21
soothing words and phrases. Some of them even telling the children that they are
00:19:25
loved and that the teachers love them. Um so we see the situation trying to keep everybody calm but quiet as well
00:19:32
and and tucked away in in these concealed areas to try to be not be seen by this maniac that's in the school.
00:19:39
Jeff, just after 9:40 a.m., police hear the final shot that is fired. Adam, using the Glock pistol that he had
00:19:47
concealed in his large cargo pants, put the gun up to the lower rear portion of his skull, and he fired the final
00:19:55
bullet, killing himself. >> The police and other law enforcement were already outside. It only took them
00:20:00
5 minutes to respond to the 911 calls. >> And when the police arrived, they had actually heard several shots before that
00:20:07
final shot. Now, this is one thing that has caused some confusion over the years
00:20:12
and and some speculation that need not be. Uh when they first arrived, they thought that shots were coming from
00:20:19
outside. Um it was later determined that that may have been the case because some
00:20:26
of the vehicles in the parking lot were hit with bullets. This would be because Adam was trying to shoot teachers who
00:20:34
were actually running near windows. So, the bullets are traveling through the school windows and hitting vehicles in
00:20:40
the parking lot. >> And during all this chaos and confusion, Nancy Lanza actually receives a text
00:20:46
message from one of her friends saying that there is something going on at Sandy Hook Elementary School. At 2:11
00:20:53
p.m. that afternoon, CNN reports the shooting suspect is named Ryan Lanza, and he is in his 20s. About 10 minutes
00:21:02
later, Fox News reports the same. And a few minutes after that, MSNBC follows with the same information. Now, police
00:21:10
had found an ID card for Ryan Lanza in Adam Lanza's clothing. >> Ryan Lanza was at work when he first
00:21:18
heard about the shooting on the news. >> Just so anybody is confused, Ryan Lanza
00:21:22
is the older brother of Adam. >> Yeah. He's about four years older than Adam, and he is still at work. when he
00:21:30
first hears that he is the suspected shooter in this event. >> Uh after hearing this news, of course,
00:21:36
he immediately leaves work without giving uh any explanation as to why >> Ryan quickly and I won't ex I won't say
00:21:46
exactly what he had said. >> Mhm. >> Um but he basically posted on Facebook that he didn't do it. uh this is as he's
00:21:54
leaving you know just after he's left work now through text and Facebook messages uh he is communicating with his
00:22:01
friends some of his friends are asking if he is okay others want to know how the news could jump to such a conclusion
00:22:08
with no evidence because I mean they're in contact with this person >> essentially there is evidence I mean
00:22:13
because law enforcement you have this kid uh which shot himself he's dead and and you can't probably positively ID him
00:22:22
right away and then you have a ID on this individual that states who he is. >> Mhm. But that's not being reported in
00:22:30
the news. It's just being reported that Ryan Lanza is the you know they're not reporting that they found an ID of
00:22:35
anybody. >> Well, and I don't are I don't think they're even reporting that the shooter
00:22:40
is dead. >> Uh the No, they're I mean they are all over the map with what they're reporting
00:22:45
at this time. >> Well, but that's the problem with news in general. I mean, we have this
00:22:49
mentality now to be first. Who who gives a [ __ ] about being right? We can uh apologize later. Let's be first. And and
00:22:57
that's definitely not the way to cover any story, especially one as tragic as this one. So, after Ryan has had some
00:23:04
time to think about what's going on and try to process the information, whether it be good, bad, or indifferent that he
00:23:12
has received, uh, he sends a private Facebook message to a friend, a very close friend, and he says, "The shooter
00:23:21
could have had my ID." And then a few minutes later, Ryan sent another message to the same friend saying, "It was my
00:23:29
brother. Oh my god, I think my mother is dead. >> Yeah, there's probably a lot of thoughts
00:23:35
going through Ryan's head at this moment. Uh, oh my god, what did my brother do? Is my family all right? He
00:23:41
was he was estranged from his brother. He they he cut ties of communication, but uh this is some heavy stuff. And uh
00:23:50
we'll get back to it right after this quick beer break. And we are back. Thanks for everybody for sticking with
00:23:56
us. We understand that this is very uh tough information especially with the age of the victims.
00:24:03
>> Yeah. And there are more details about the actual attack uh that we obviously
00:24:09
didn't cover in that first half and we're not going to cover them in the second half as well because of the age
00:24:14
of the victims. Um you know I feel like we covered it pretty appropriately given
00:24:20
the circumstance. >> Yeah. I think a lot of the point of covering some of this stuff is to bring
00:24:25
awareness and kind of understand what the psyche uh of this individual was, where this person was at. Is there any
00:24:32
possible way that we could have prevented this? And none of those details really help us with that.
00:24:38
>> And and you're exactly right. What we wanted to do here was really talk about
00:24:43
uh what was going on with the attacker, with the shooter, with Adam beforehand so that we can because there is that
00:24:50
question of why when these things happen and it's never really fully answered, but we wanted to provide some
00:24:57
information that you may not have heard before and information that is not so readily available as well to give us
00:25:04
some insights as to what was going on leading up to this horrible event >> and where we're at currently and
00:25:10
covering this case. We have the news releasing some very bad information. Again, like I said, trying to be first
00:25:17
and not trying to be correct. >> You're exactly right. The information that was coming out is not giving good
00:25:23
information as to what actually took place in New Town. And now we get this information that the shooter's name was
00:25:29
Ryan Lanza, who was 24 years old. He's at work when this situation took place. He's nowhere near the town of New Town
00:25:37
and he's hearing this information. He's leaving work and it has dawned on him. It's not been it's not been presented to
00:25:44
him or confirmed yet, but now he's he's getting the feeling that his brother was
00:25:50
responsible for this and that his mother has probably been killed before this event took place. the news that would
00:25:57
continue to come out that day. Um, again, it's it's >> Well, let's not call it news, let's call
00:26:03
it misinformation. >> Yeah, because it's bad information. Um, some of the other news is that stating
00:26:08
that the shooter, they're still calling him Ryan at this point, that the shooter's mother was a teacher at Sandy
00:26:15
Hook and that he had killed her and that Ryan's brother was found dead in Hoboken, New Jersey. They are now
00:26:22
reporting that the suspected shooters Ryan Lanza is 24 years old. Shortly after this, Ryan is arrested in Hoboken,
00:26:31
New Jersey near his home. Under interrogation, he is being asked by police if he knew what his brother had
00:26:38
done, and he says yes. He had seen the news about the shooting at Sandy Hook at work, and he knew his brother and mother
00:26:46
were dead. That's what he's telling the police. >> Mhm. after 5:00 p.m. the news stations
00:26:52
start correcting themselves and they >> Yeah. And we see this all the time, this
00:26:56
backtracking and it's just it's irresponsible because because of a lot of this misinformation and we'll get
00:27:04
into this later is the is the conspiracy side. And if it wasn't for so much of this misinformation, we wouldn't have
00:27:12
all these questions at the end. would be questioned the actual event, what we could do to possibly prevent it. But now
00:27:21
all we're left with is questioning the actual event itself. >> Mhm. So after 5:00 p.m., they start
00:27:27
reporting that the suspected shooter was not in fact Ryan Lanza, but his younger
00:27:32
brother, Adam. >> Mhm. >> There was still more bad information to come out, though. This would be that
00:27:38
Adam's girlfriend and the girlfriend's mother were reported missing in New Jersey. And we know that Adam did not
00:27:45
have a girlfriend. So this is, >> you know, just not not correct. >> The parents of the school children and
00:27:52
the family members of the teachers were told to go to the New Town Firehouse. >> And this is where they would be reunited
00:28:00
with their loved ones or given further instruction as to where to go or what to do. And we have family members there now
00:28:07
and they're they're being reunited, but they still don't know many of the details of what events took place
00:28:13
earlier. Yes, several of the kids are being reunited with their parents. And after a while, there's a whole bunch of
00:28:21
parents from kids of basically two classrooms that are left. Now, these parents would be greeted by the governor
00:28:29
who stood before them to give a very short announcement. and his announcement was only two of the children were taken
00:28:36
to the hospital and they expired. Some of the parents started to scream. One man yelled out, "Where do we go? We want
00:28:44
to be with our kids." The governor responded by saying, "No one else has been taken to the hospital." Another
00:28:51
parent then shouted, "What does that mean? Are they all dead?" And the governor says, "Yes." At this point, we
00:28:57
have a bunch of officers and law enforcement heading to the lands of home to maybe get some more clues. Yeah,
00:29:03
because at this point, they've connected the black Honda that they found in the parking lot, the one that Adam was
00:29:08
driving, >> uh, as being that of Nancy Lanzas. The officers were actually expecting a
00:29:15
potential gunfight when arriving. They didn't really know what they were walking into or or had any expectation
00:29:21
of what they might see or encounter. They entered the home without any trouble, though. They begin to swarm the
00:29:28
house, moving methodically from room to room. The first thing that they notice is the house is extremely clean and well
00:29:35
organized. Uh in they go down to the basement. Uh and the basement's extremely dark. They do see the military
00:29:43
posters covering the walls and covering the windows are those black trash bags fixed to the walls with duct tape.
00:29:51
>> Mhm. Upstairs they find journals of Adams and drawings that he has made. Uh in a closet of one of the rooms they
00:30:00
find neatly arranged hangers. There's five hangers with tan colored shirts and five with matching khaki pants.
00:30:08
>> Right. We kind of talked about that before. Possibly that Adam wore a uniform.
00:30:12
>> Yeah. Like a self a self uh created uniform, >> right? >> Um they find computers. Now, on these
00:30:20
computers, all of these computers, the the hard drives have been destroyed, and the internal disc have been scratched.
00:30:27
These rooms had the windows covered as well with the trash bags. In the master bedroom, they find the body of Nancy
00:30:34
Lanza. She's lying on her back, still in her pajamas. The 22 caliber gun that was
00:30:39
used to kill her was lying at the foot of her bed. They would also find quite a bit of firearms in the house as well as
00:30:46
1,600 rounds of ammunition. >> When law enforcement gets to the gun locker or the gun safe, there's no
00:30:53
evidence that was tampered with or broken into. >> They also find a photograph of Adam
00:31:00
holding a gun to his head. They find three photos of dead bodies with heads that are covered in plastic and their
00:31:07
bodies are covered in blood. They found a military uniform and Adam's first grade report card from Sandy Hook
00:31:15
Elementary School. They also find a holiday card addressed to Adam from his mother which contained a check. Now the
00:31:23
the card specified that the money was for a C183, which I don't know exactly what that is,
00:31:30
but what police say or police believe is that the money was for a handgun. I think a lot of times when we have these
00:31:38
tragic events, we we're looking for the reason why, right? And we're also looking how can we prevent this?
00:31:44
>> And there's some signs. I mean, we've talked about that in the last episode, but whether or not his mother found
00:31:51
these pictures of these these uh dead individuals or but we know that she found pictures of drawings that he's
00:31:59
done, there's some disturbing stuff. >> I understand that at some point he was seeing a therapist. He should have been
00:32:05
seeing a therapist the whole time >> forever, like multiple visits every week for for a long long period of time.
00:32:13
>> Yeah, there's there's some obvious obvious signs here to us. Um there are some things here pointed out as well
00:32:20
that that show that Adam didn't just snap. He didn't just snap and get in a car with a single firearm and go into a
00:32:27
school and shoot the place up. No, he he what we're seeing here is he took the time to try to destroy these computers.
00:32:36
>> Mhm. >> Uh he also arrived on the scene with with earplugs to to muffle the sounds of
00:32:42
the gunshots. >> Mhm. >> Um with multiple firearms. >> Well, even if you go back further, I
00:32:48
mean, this is kind of like to me uh the best analogy I could use would be like a
00:32:53
hurricane, right? It starts out in the ocean really small. And this started back when he was in middle school. And
00:33:00
the and the storm just kept growing and growing and growing until it just came to a peak, but also peaked at the same
00:33:09
time that it hit land. >> Mhm. >> And I and I feel that's kind of what it was. It not only did he plan these
00:33:15
events, you know, maybe days beforehand, this was a perfect storm leading up to this whole event. The other day I was
00:33:24
discussing this case with a friend of mine and I was going over some of the things that were found in the home uh
00:33:30
beforehand and after the fact and one of the things that that person found interesting was the 1,600 rounds of
00:33:38
ammunition. I mean that that number sounds very big and to see it on paper it looks very big. Keep in mind, we know
00:33:46
that he had at least 300 rounds of ammunition on his person because he had those 10 magazines each carrying 30
00:33:53
rounds in them. That doesn't even include the other firearms that were present at the scene. So, that it sounds
00:34:00
like a lot of ammunition, right? And that was what really stood out and appalled this person that I was talking
00:34:07
with. I did bring up to them though, you know, it it it's all kind of somewhat relative. You know, I have a there's one
00:34:14
gun that I own and it's a specific it has a very specific form of bullet that it fires and
00:34:23
>> they're actually very uh very common. It's a very common caliber. >> Mhm. >> And they're very cheap as well. So, last
00:34:32
time I went to buy ammunition, they were having a sale and for everything was like 50% off or 60% off, something like
00:34:40
that. So, I bought a carton and they only come in cartons and they vary in size, but the carton that I purchased
00:34:46
for I think it was 30 bucks >> had 1,200 rounds in it. So, so where 1,600 or 2,000 rounds sound like a whole
00:34:55
bunch of like like somebody that's stockpiling for World War II, that's actually not the case. Sometimes these
00:35:02
sometimes this ammunition just comes in bulk. I I don't need 20,200 rounds for anything that I can think of, but uh you
00:35:10
know, that's what they sold it to me. >> And as we're on the point of what they found in the home, there are some
00:35:16
pictures online and you can actually find a picture of NY's bedroom and there is a pool of blood in the middle of the
00:35:23
bed. And a lot of people a point of controversy is that if she was shot as at such close range and with as high
00:35:33
power of a rifle that he used that there would be more blood splatter on the wall.
00:35:38
>> Right >> now the the pictures I've seen are so kind of far away from the bed, maybe
00:35:44
feet away from the bed where they took it that you can't really see any blood splatter on the wall. Again, I mean, I I
00:35:52
am not a forensic expert, so I don't know how it would actually react or or was this picture taken after they uh
00:36:02
collected evidence and then maybe washed the walls. >> I'm not for sure, but it but there is a
00:36:09
large puddle of blood in the middle of her bed. And then we even talked yesterday,
00:36:14
well, where was she laying? Was there a bunch of pillows around her? Um, I mean,
00:36:20
who knows? I mean, and and would that uh kind of block some of this splatter? >> Well, and when we see these photos, you
00:36:29
know, especially in this situation, they don't have to release this photo and then explain to you point by point, this
00:36:35
is what's going on and this is what we think happened and here's the evidence of such. They don't have to do that. We
00:36:40
know who did this. we know about this crime and they they're going to not release everything on purpose. We I mean
00:36:50
we just know that not every question needs to be answered when you have have a solved crime and they don't owe that
00:36:57
to us as a public either. Well, people that think that this is a point of con conspiracy, I'd question, okay, well
00:37:04
then then who is Ryan and who is Peter >> and who is Nancy and are do they all just work for the CIA and they're just
00:37:12
uh they came out of nowhere and they're all actors and their life never existed.
00:37:17
There is tax records for one. Uh we we know Ryan is a real person. We know Peter's a real person, you know, and
00:37:25
they don't take into account that what what about somebody like Ryan that, you know, even though his brother did these
00:37:33
heinous things, his brother had a lot of issues and he lost his brother and then
00:37:38
he lost his mother. And to start saying that this is this is a point of conspiracy, it's demeaning to their
00:37:46
loss. >> Yeah. And it's the meeting to all the children's losses as well and the family
00:37:52
losses and then the community losses. >> Well, and some of the evidence that's collected, things that they saw at the
00:37:57
scene, does that present questions? Of course it does. But there are are there logical answers to these? Absolutely.
00:38:04
There are absolutely logical answers to these questions. >> Yeah. And as all this misinformation
00:38:09
from the news outlets is coming out and the law enforcement trying to do their investigation, we have a lot of victims
00:38:17
and uh they need to have funeral services for these victims. >> Yeah. And there's you know we have we
00:38:22
have to have so many services over the course of a period of time. I think it took over a week to provide all the
00:38:30
services and they were having multiple funerals per day. Um, one thing that was created out of this amongst others, but
00:38:36
there was a thing called the Chase Foundation. Now, this was in uh remembrance of Chase Kowalsski. He was
00:38:43
one of the children victims that day. Uh, he was 7 years old. Uh, Chase's mother believes, now this is something
00:38:50
that she had communicated to loved ones at Chase's service. Uh she believes that
00:38:57
she had actually seen Chase after uh after death that he had came to her in a vision and he had appeared to her to
00:39:05
provide strength and comfort and wishing she would move forward with charitable work. M
00:39:11
>> Chase came to his mother so so she could explain to her husband the scope of this
00:39:17
thing that this thing is so large that there are so many people around the country in the world that are victims
00:39:24
the families and their community that they were going to be touching they were going to be changing lives with this
00:39:30
foundation. The Kowalsski started the Chase Foundation, which is not which is a not-for-profit scholarship
00:39:36
organization started in Chase's honor. And she believes her son came to her to tell her that the creation of this
00:39:45
foundation will save lives, change building codes, demand gun and ammunition control, and bring God back
00:39:52
into America. >> And investigators at this point feel like they can make a statement on their
00:39:57
findings of this event. Yeah, th this would take them some time to put it together, but this is this is all going
00:40:03
to revolve around items that they found at the home. Um, as well as those journals that we talked about that were
00:40:11
found in Adam's room. Now, basically, they they give him a title. They they basically call him a glory killer.
00:40:19
>> And what they mean by this is that they didn't feel that any of his disorders is
00:40:25
what caused him to do this. They also didn't feel that this was something where he had just snapped and woke up
00:40:31
and decided to go and do this. They believed that this is something that he planned out. Maybe not this attack
00:40:38
specifically, >> but that he had planned to attack somebody somewhere at some point. And
00:40:44
their evidence of this is that the the length of time that he spent putting together that spreadsheet that we
00:40:51
discussed that had what he listed as the top 500 mass killers and he had all this
00:40:58
information on on them. Remember this was in 9 font. Okay? >> And it was it was 7 feet in length and
00:41:06
four feet wide. This spreadsheet it's a massive spreadsheet with all kinds of information on it. And they believed
00:41:13
that him studying each one of them was a form of training. That he was almost training himself and learning from their
00:41:21
mistakes and learning from things that he thought that they had done correctly to kind of set himself up for this
00:41:28
event. They also didn't believe that bullying was involved. They because they felt that if he was angry or if he
00:41:36
wanted revenge that he would have in fact have gone to the high school and not to the elementary school.
00:41:42
>> Right. But we do there is some evidence that points that he was going to go there.
00:41:47
>> Right. Right. But we we can get into into the thought the psychology of that a little bit later because it ties into
00:41:54
to something that we're going to talk about. Um, the other thing is they believe that that the killing of Nancy
00:42:00
was just something that he that had to take place that that maybe she was an an actual victim that he was targeting. But
00:42:09
his whole goal was to carry out an attack and he was not going to be stopped in the process. that she was
00:42:16
something that was just necessary to do because had she seen him taking the car,
00:42:20
loading the car up with guns, she could have called the police and put an end to
00:42:25
what he was attempting to do. >> He was going to kill himself and he was going to
00:42:31
>> I don't know that make a statement is the correct phrase, but he was going to
00:42:36
he was going to go and take as many people with him in the process. this was his quote unquote mission
00:42:42
>> and he wasn't going to be stopped by his mother or anybody. >> Yeah, I don't agree with a lot of their
00:42:48
findings. Um I I'd say I'm probably 5050 on what I agree with them on. Um but I I
00:42:54
am not an expert. >> Well, and that Yeah, I'm with you, Captain. There there are some things I
00:42:59
agree with in that statement and some that I don't. But but again, we're not seeing the things that they got to see.
00:43:06
Uh we're not able to review all of the evidence here. And I think that we do have to label that as an expert opinion.
00:43:14
Um it's not fact, but it's it's an opinion of people closest to the information and closest to the case. And
00:43:21
I think there's a lot of value uh in that that opinion whether I agree with all of it or not. The other thing that I
00:43:27
for that I forgot to mention was that you know we talk about mental illness and and these different aspects here uh
00:43:34
of Adam and what was going on. They they also believed that they didn't want to title him a psychopath.
00:43:42
>> Um because their beliefs are that a psychopath would carry out a crime like this but want recognition, right?
00:43:51
>> That would want to see what he had done and want to read about in the paper, see
00:43:56
it on the news, and and not get not, you know, killing himself is not really getting the credit. And on top of that,
00:44:03
he's trying to hide a lot of the things that he that that were going on with him
00:44:07
beforehand. >> Well, I actually don't buy that at all, just knowing the amount of research that
00:44:13
he's done on these mass murders, knowing that these um knowing that the attacker
00:44:20
normally doesn't make it out alive. So, you could still be a psychopath knowing that yeah, well, I'm either going to
00:44:28
commit suicide or they will take me down. But this will be recognized. >> And so you don't need to see, you know,
00:44:36
and and then also just knowing, you know, why why did he kill so many and then take his life, you know, I
00:44:44
think he knew he he had a number that he was trying to hit and he knew that based
00:44:49
off all this information that he collected, I need to do this much and if I do this much, it will be talked about.
00:44:56
So another point where I don't fully agree with him on >> and and I'm with you. I think I think he
00:45:01
was trying to get to some kind of number that he had created and I think that he
00:45:05
only killed himself after believing that he had reached that bar that he had set.
00:45:11
Now, uh we talked about that video game that he was playing Combat Arms where you actually got a credit a kill credit
00:45:18
for for killing yourself >> in a in a mission or or in that game play. I've never played the game, but
00:45:24
that's how it was explained to me, right? uh one wonders had you know once he reached whatever number that he had
00:45:31
set or believed that he had done so that either he wasn't brave enough to take on
00:45:37
the police and or killing himself up that number by one >> well and killing his mother does the
00:45:44
same thing. >> Yeah. >> So it's like you know it's it's uh well that's just a bad term. I was going to
00:45:51
say kill two birds with one stone but basically that's what it was. I mean, you you need to kill your mother,
00:45:58
therefore she can't stop you. And all, by the way, she adds to the kill count on the w uh Wikipedia page.
00:46:05
>> Do we want to address any of the hoax theories, conspiracy theories that have
00:46:10
come up regarding this case? Because here's the problem, Captain. >> Mhm. Well, you know, when we started
00:46:15
looking into this case, um, if you just Google search Sandy Hook or a New Town, um, unfortunately, almost all of the
00:46:24
information that comes up early in those searches is >> as hoax or conspiracy. Yeah.
00:46:30
>> Yeah. There's actually it's you have to sift through a lot of that before you
00:46:33
can find any real information other than, you know, the Wikipedia pages. >> Well, I think we we covered the whole
00:46:39
blood splatter in the bedroom. Uh I think there is some logical explanation. They're not giving us every detail. So
00:46:48
there's probably some logical explanation that we just are not presented with that information. The
00:46:53
other thing that we talked about was saying that the a uh the AR-15 was found in the car. Well, that was
00:47:02
misinformation by the media. It was actually a shotgun that was found in the car. And so little things like that
00:47:08
start making you go, "Well, they claim that all these children were killed by with the AR-15."
00:47:15
But how could that happen when it was in the car? That's just misinformation by the media. The other thing too, and I
00:47:21
get so sick of this, if you go on YouTube with any of these mass shootings, they do this thing where they
00:47:28
take a picture of Adam and they and they take a different picture of Adam, just like one from maybe a year later or 6
00:47:34
months later, and they put them side by side, and then they start making the claim that it's not the same person,
00:47:41
>> that somebody switched out these people at some point, >> right? like this is a clone or this is
00:47:45
some or it's it's absolutely ridiculous. And yeah, if you take a picture of me and you put it by a picture of me from
00:47:54
three months later and you look at it long enough, maybe you'll find little differences. But it's crazy to me that
00:48:00
there's, you know, tons of these videos going, "See," and it's some idiot on the
00:48:06
other side going, if you if you notice the picture on the left, his hair looks a little different than the picture on
00:48:13
the right. No [ __ ] you know? But let's let's just go with some logic that it's
00:48:19
probably the same person. >> So those little claims just drive me nuts. Um we we talked about the second
00:48:26
shooter theory because of the misinformation of the media. You know, one of the one of the
00:48:32
parents were arrested at the scene. >> Yes. >> And this individual was coming up to the
00:48:38
school. There was gunshots being fired. He then uh ran to the edge of the building to he was trying to look in the
00:48:46
window of the classroom where his child was, >> you know, being I mean that's a heroic
00:48:52
event from a father. He's just trying to see if his kids are okay. The police see
00:48:57
him. He then takes off running from the building. Yeah. Uh there's several individuals that are running from the
00:49:04
building because uh it's the fight orflight mentality and they decided to flight and they were arrested and they
00:49:12
were questioned. And the big thing here was he had camo pants on and a black shirt.
00:49:17
>> Yeah. And he was actually seen by um some of the other parents as being handcuffed and put into a police
00:49:24
cruiser. Um, I believe he was showing up to he was going to work on some project
00:49:30
with the kids that day, like build gingerbread cookie houses or something. And he he when he arrived, the glass was
00:49:38
shot out, but he's still hearing the gunfire that's going on inside the school. So, he doesn't go in. And when
00:49:45
he sees the police, when they when they, you know, say, "Hey, stop, you know, get
00:49:49
down," or whatever they tell him to do. Um he he actually thinks that they might
00:49:54
be the shooters. Uh he's totally out of his element and don't know you don't know what's going on in this situation.
00:50:00
It's pure chaos, >> right? >> And he thinks that maybe the police are the shooters. He h high tails it to the
00:50:06
woods and as you said, he was arrested. >> And when people say, "Well, that's crazy
00:50:09
that he would have thought that the police officers were the shooters." It's not crazy because when you watch video
00:50:15
footage of Coline or even some of the stuff that Adam was wearing, it's very militant. And so therefore, that's not
00:50:23
crazy. So that's again misinformation from the media. And then so therefore, it's a conspiracy or it's a hoax. The
00:50:31
whole idea that this is a hoax. So you're going to have to invent 27 people. You just have to out of thin air
00:50:38
invent 27 people that never existed. The idea that it's a hoax, that it just never happened. It was a drill is
00:50:48
frankly one of the stupidest things I've ever heard. Now, with that being said, when people say, "Well, was it a
00:50:56
conspiracy?" When you start thinking of the idea of let's say Adam went in to to to this
00:51:05
tragic event happen did politicians did the media spin it for agenda definitely you know and and
00:51:15
but did they create fictitious characters to spin their agenda? I don't I don't believe so. I think there was so
00:51:22
so much misinformation that it just lead to this complete chaos as far as a media
00:51:27
storm. >> Well, and if you're trying to control guns, um those laws didn't pass. So,
00:51:34
>> you know, it you know, if they wanted to do if they being the government wanted
00:51:38
to absolutely do something, they would just do it, >> right? >> They wouldn't cause this horrible event.
00:51:44
Now, I do want to go back on something uh real quick before we go forward. uh talking about is it crazy to think that
00:51:51
the police are the shooters? Well, he's not identifying them as police officers obviously,
00:51:55
>> right? >> And here's the thing. When you're in this situation, do you have time to sit
00:52:00
there and analyze the person you seeing as being the potential gunman or just somebody else? No. No. You run. You get
00:52:08
out of there. And and this can be explained as easy as this. One of the calls that the dispatchers were sending
00:52:15
out to the police officers arriving on the scene, they're reminding all police officers that the gunman has not been
00:52:22
identified yet. They don't know if it's one shooter or multiple shooters. So, if
00:52:26
you are a pl or you you are off duty and in plane clothes and civilian gear, >> Mhm.
00:52:33
>> that when you arrive at the school, you must be wearing your riot gear. put on
00:52:38
put on that riot gear because that will be the only thing that the cops will have time to identify you as being a
00:52:45
police officer rather than being just some man with a gun. >> Mhm. >> So, so it's a extremely logical
00:52:53
situation to understand that this poor man whose daughter is in the building hears gunfire that he would think that a
00:53:01
police officer from a distance might be the shooter. >> Yeah. And I think uh so there's two
00:53:06
points there as far as conspiracy goes that you talked about. One, the 911 tapes.
00:53:11
>> Mhm. >> So the 911 tapes, there's a lot of dispatchers that uh did say there's
00:53:16
possibly, you know, more than one shooter. Right. >> We know with Colin that they didn't go
00:53:21
into the building. They didn't go into the high school for, you know, for a while because the reports from the
00:53:28
people inside the building, the students inside the building saying that there was eight shooters.
00:53:33
>> Right. But did six of the shooters just disappear after they entered? No, it was
00:53:39
just misinformation. It was just eyewitness account that was not correct. And in a state of chaos, you're going to
00:53:46
get some misinformation. So, that's one thing about the 911 tapes. >> Mhm. >> Right. It's it's it's common that when
00:53:54
there is a shooting that they think, well, maybe it's one person, maybe it's more. And especially if you're using an
00:54:00
assault rifle that I bet there was plenty of people thought that just the amount of shooting taking place possibly
00:54:07
couldn't be done by one individual. >> Well, and the echoing effect that would take place. Okay. And to add to that
00:54:13
chaos, not only are you hearing these noises coming from the actual gun, but you're hearing them then repeated over
00:54:20
the intercom system. >> Now, yeah. Well, with the Freedom of Information Act, a lot of people give it
00:54:27
a bunch of [ __ ] If if you listen to our trailer, I think seven 911 calls. There
00:54:33
was more 911 calls released. A lot of them didn't have any uhformational value. There are some of the 911 calls
00:54:41
that were not released. And what the police department basically stated, and they they stated it multiple times, was
00:54:51
there's some things on these tapes that don't help you understand the case anymore,
00:54:58
>> right? >> You do not need to hear 911 tapes with children crying and children taking
00:55:04
their last breath and stuff like that. And as a true crime fan, as much as I want to hear that information, by
00:55:11
holding that information back, you are protecting the family. You are protecting um the, you know, the
00:55:18
victim's loved ones. You're protecting that community, which they should. And if you're sitting behind a computer
00:55:24
screen and you're you're hunting for this information and you're upset or angry that you cannot find it or you
00:55:30
think that you deserve to be able to review that information, >> well, just instead, why don't you count
00:55:36
your blessings and be thankful that you've never been in a situation like these victims or the victim's families
00:55:42
have been in? >> No, I I I totally agree. But and and but I totally understand why people want to
00:55:49
have that information so they can put together more of the pieces of the puzzle. The other thing too is Ben
00:55:54
Wheeler was one of the victims. I believe he was 6 years old. His father and mother were both actors. Now by them
00:56:02
being actors, everybody when they were giving their press conferences and stuff like that, they start googling his
00:56:10
parents and then realized, well, they were actors. Yes, they had a profession. They both were actors and therefore they
00:56:18
made up enough money where they can move to the area and have their kids go to this uh school, you know, and by all
00:56:25
accounts um Sandy Hook was a school that people wanted to send their kids to. Is
00:56:31
it that odd that a mother and father would have the same profession? Mhm. I >> mean, that's one of the, you know, most
00:56:39
common ways that adults, you know, meet each other as as adults and and start relationships is at work. So, the other
00:56:49
problem with Ben Wheeler's uh father is he looks a lot like a FBI agent. And so there is this there's these scenes that
00:56:58
if you look >> he looks like a specific sorry I don't mean to interrupt but he looks like a
00:57:02
specific FBI agent or just somebody that would like >> No, he looks like he looks like a
00:57:07
certain one. And and so there's all this footage of these guys showing up gearing
00:57:13
up in their SWAT gear and then entering the school or now helping with this tragic scene. Okay.
00:57:20
>> Mhm. So, if you watch the footage and you compare the pictures, I'll I'll I'll
00:57:27
be frank. When I saw the pictures, I thought, "Holy [ __ ] >> there there is something going on."
00:57:34
>> Yeah. >> That's if you just look at the pictures with one guy in full right gear with the
00:57:39
helmet on and all these things. If you see pictures of Vin's father, you know, hours afterwards, if you can
00:57:48
find those pictures, >> he is going bald but has some hair. If you watch the footage of the the the
00:57:56
officer, I believe he's an FBI agent that's gearing up in full SWAT gear. You can see footage of him getting out
00:58:04
of his car >> and starting to put on his gear. >> Shaved head, bald. They've identified
00:58:11
what the FBI agent's name was. And then again, if you compare, you know, if you compare the two pictures with the guy in
00:58:18
his full gear, you're like, that seems very uh fishy. Once you see the guy getting dressed and
00:58:26
putting all his stuff on, you go, that's not the same guy. Unless this guy that's
00:58:30
going bald can somehow grow a bunch of hair within hours. >> Yeah. it. So, it doesn't make a lot of
00:58:37
sense, but I will admit that when I first saw it, I I thought, "Wow, there's something here."
00:58:43
>> If you can grow hair in a matter of hours and replace all that hair falling off your head, you'd you'd make it be a
00:58:50
millionaire, right? A billionaire that you'd have something there, right? Another thing that comes off as odd, and
00:58:57
I didn't have a logical explanation of this, you'll see a lot of these hoax or conspiracy theory videos where there's
00:59:06
people outside the school building and they're just kind of walking in circles. Okay.
00:59:12
>> Mhm. >> And there seems to be no rhyme or reason and it seems like a lot of chaos. It's
00:59:19
almost uh the way the conspiracy theorists put it is, well, we have all these actors and we have the school and
00:59:27
we're just going to have these people pretend and we're just going to have them scatter around and kind of walk in
00:59:34
a loop. >> Were these people that were coming that had come out of the school? >> Some are coming out of the school. Some
00:59:40
are people that are arriving at at the building. Um, I couldn't make a lot logical sense out of this until I
00:59:49
watched the documentary New Town. Right >> now, I like I said, if you want to watch
00:59:53
it, go for it. There's not much information. It is a cryfest. Um, it was difficult to watch and has frankly made
01:00:03
uh just doing the podcast this week even harder by watching it. Um, so I wouldn't
01:00:10
recommend that. And I'll tell you what though, there is some logical reasoning for that when
01:00:15
>> Well, here's the logical reasoning. Go for it. Okay. So, when I was watching this documentary, the the piece that I
01:00:21
got out of it was one of the fathers said, you know, I I arrive, I don't know what's going on. He said, I paced for a
01:00:31
long time. I must have did over a thousand laps. And when I heard the one of the victim's fathers said, "I must
01:00:40
have done a thousand laps. He's just walking in circles not knowing what the hell happened to his kid." And
01:00:49
yeah, he's not talking to anybody cuz nobody has any answers for him. And there's a swarm of media and he's just
01:00:58
beside himself. Uh, you know, almost in a a trance. >> Mhm. And that's the only logical
01:01:05
explanation I can come up with for that one. >> Yeah. The thing here is though too,
01:01:11
okay, we have a situation where the the the stress level is off of the charts. It's it's something that most of us
01:01:20
cannot even comprehend. And we know that we we don't know that how someone would
01:01:25
react in that situation where where I mean you're talking about >> this is basically combat war type
01:01:31
situations. And the other thing too, not to top off that stress level, this traumatic situation that you're
01:01:41
going through, if you were in the building, you the the loud gunfire. Remember, Adam had put ear, you know, he
01:01:49
had earplugs in. He came equipped. The people that he was attacking, they're hearing these loud, extremely loud
01:01:57
noises that are echoing off of every wall. that in itself will dis disorient you as well.
01:02:04
>> Uh, another thing that conspiracy theorists bring up is there's a lot of vehicles outside of the school that are
01:02:11
black or silver and there's a lot of vehicles uh that are involved in this case that are Honda vehicles,
01:02:18
>> right? >> Um, Adam's mother's vehicle was a Honda. One of the teachers cars that was shot
01:02:24
up was a Honda. What is the logical explanation? Were there a bunch of people that worked for
01:02:31
the mil? You know, first of all, there are other units that sent people, >> right?
01:02:36
>> So, so you'll get a lot of government workers will have black or gray cars. The fact that there was a couple Hondas
01:02:43
involved, you know, >> black or silver cars. >> It just it doesn't matter to me. I think
01:02:49
it's somebody grasping. It's absolutely silly because what are we reminded of when we watch TV? Anybody that's seen a
01:02:56
Honda commercial, we're reminded time and time again how they are one of the number one selling brands, especially a
01:03:03
Honda Civic or a Honda Accord. They're they've been number one selling cars time and time again.
01:03:10
>> So So it's a very popular car, first of all. And then second of all, it doesn't
01:03:14
take much research, Einstein, to figure out that black and silver are usually the most popular colors of vehicles that
01:03:22
are purchased as well. So you're exactly right. This is somebody just grasping at
01:03:26
anything. The other thing that the other thing that is absolutely silly that I saw time and time again on the internet
01:03:34
as far as hoaxes go or conspiracy theories was there's still this argument that we are being lied to and that Nancy
01:03:42
was in fact actually a teacher at the school or that she was some form of volunteer at the school. Right. and and
01:03:51
why they keep going back to that. I I I cannot figure the value in it. If she was a teacher or if she was a volunteer
01:03:58
or if she had nothing to do with the school at all, it doesn't really affect what happened. This event still
01:04:04
happened. She's dead and we have all these other victims. It doesn't matter what her employment status was. And
01:04:11
second of all, no kidding that that that that conspiracy theory came out because
01:04:16
we reported all the misinformation that came out early on in this case. I mean, >> they didn't even have the suspect's
01:04:23
name, right? >> They didn't have the suspect's name, right? They they created some fictitious
01:04:27
girlfriend and and her mother was missing from New Jersey. Uh >> yeah, nobody's dating Lloyd Christmas
01:04:34
that's wearing the same outfit every day. >> The kid wouldn't leave his basement
01:04:37
unless he was going to the shooting ranger to rent a video game. Um, so >> he probably smelled like Fritos.
01:04:44
>> There's all this bad information and that unfortunately gives birth to a lot of these conspiracy theories.
01:04:50
>> Yeah. And look, the black and gray car look, yeah, you I do think somebody's grasping at straws, but if there's any
01:04:59
validity to it, yes, I don't have an answer. Just like the blood splatter, I don't have an answer. I do believe that
01:05:05
there's some logical uh reasoning for that. Um, and then a lot of people bring up the coroner. The coroner, if you want
01:05:13
to watch something that is so utterly confusing, you know, these children were not brought to the ER,
01:05:20
>> right? >> Another conspiracy theorist when when the ER doctor was when they questioned
01:05:26
him, I think it was Congress that questioned him and they said, "Did you treat these victims?" He said, "Yes, we
01:05:31
did." And then he stopped himself and said, "Well, actually, we didn't because most of these victims were such a at a
01:05:40
young age and they were hit with such um these bullets from the AR-15 that explode when they hit their victims that
01:05:48
the average victim had 3 to 11 bullet wounds." >> Mhm. >> And that they're basically dead when the
01:05:57
the cops arrived. And so a lot of conspiracy theorists go, "Well, see, see this uh you catch this doctor in a lie."
01:06:05
No, he misspoke and he's misspeaking in front of a bunch of people. Um, you know, and you know, it's a touchy
01:06:15
subject and trust me, you know, we get into the garage and the garage is a comfortable area for us and we're
01:06:22
drinking some beers and we misspe speak all the time. I just did it right there.
01:06:28
So, I was talking about the coroner. Like I said, if you want to see something that's very uh nerving is the
01:06:34
coroner makes some very odd jokes. Uh I think it's in poor taste. Uh I think it's also somebody that examines uh dead
01:06:43
bodies for a living and their sense of humor is going to be a little different than the average person.
01:06:50
>> But he's he's you know well educated to have that position. He certainly knows
01:06:55
better. Yeah, >> I I get it. I get it because we've talked to detectives and we've talked to
01:07:00
doctors, you know, and they some of them can have a dark sense of humor to try to
01:07:05
get them through their day. >> Yeah. Well, I mean, I have it too. I mean, just based off what we do on the
01:07:11
show, there's sometimes I'll see a meme about a serial killer and I'm cracking up and I feel like the most awful,
01:07:19
weirdest person in the world, but you know, >> you should you should >> you should. Any more conspiracy stuff
01:07:27
that you want to touch upon? >> Yeah, there's a couple things that are a little odd. One is there's a picture of
01:07:34
a victim of Sandy Hook where they um well actually three things. There's a picture of a victim from Sandy Hook that
01:07:44
was also used in this terrorist attack overseas and you can find this information pretty easily and there's
01:07:51
this lady giving a speech and there's all these pictures of these victims and clearly one of the pictures of the
01:07:57
victims of Sandy Hook is on the podium. I have no explanation for this. I I don't know what to think of this.
01:08:06
>> Could it was one of the one of the young boys was the victim and at Sandy Hook.
01:08:11
>> Could it just be a lookalike? I mean, there there are people that look like one another.
01:08:16
>> It's it's very possible, but from the evidence I've seen, it looks like the almost the exact same picture. Uh so
01:08:24
that's odd. The other thing that people bring up a lot of times in this case is that Sandy Hook was demolished and that
01:08:31
also um Adam's home was demolished as well. >> Mhm. >> Now, the community voted to have Sandy
01:08:39
Hook be destroyed. So, none of the parents or, you know, a lot of these parents had other children that would be
01:08:47
attending the school and for them to have to relive these events over and over doesn't make a lot of sense. Um, I
01:08:55
don't have a a lot of explanation for why the the Adam's house was destroyed. >> It's not uncommon, though. You know,
01:09:04
when when >> we've seen this with Ed Gene's house. >> Yeah. And and countless other homes, you
01:09:09
know, there were there's been crimes in in Cleveland and and in Columbus and in Cincinnati that that they've destroyed
01:09:15
the homes uh where horrible events have taken place or where the perpetrator of such had lived. And um so it's not an
01:09:24
uncommon thing to destroy homes and and absolutely uh in my opinion the school needed to be taken down, you know.
01:09:34
>> And and con Yeah. conspiracy theorists and hoax theorists will say that this was a way for people to cover up
01:09:41
evidence. >> Yeah. Yeah. To hide to hide what really had happened. >> And and uh and now I misspoke cuz Ed
01:09:47
Gan's house was destroyed by somebody. It wasn't destroyed by the community. Um, but I think it's also a way with
01:09:54
these mass murderers or or people that have sick, twisted minds, sometimes they they turn these things into shrines.
01:10:02
>> Mhm. >> Um, so again, it's odd. I think, you know, spend some time diving into that
01:10:09
if that's your thing. Uh, I think you'll find some logical reason uh if you dive
01:10:15
into those things. Well, and you have you have a grieving community, you know, whether these whether some of the people
01:10:21
had children attending that school or not, you have a grieving community. And after that grieving process takes place,
01:10:28
hopefully there's a healing process that takes place. And I don't believe you can
01:10:33
heal until with with some of those memories still around, with some of with with those buildings being around. Uh, I
01:10:42
mean sometimes we should just call me Captain Conspiracy because I do dive into the conspiracy side of things
01:10:50
multiple times. A lot of talk lately on social media when when people knew we're
01:10:55
doing this case was the actors, the actors that were paid to be witnesses. Now, if you look up this this happened
01:11:04
in Aurora, this happened with Sandy Hook. This has happened multiple times. whether whether or not it's the, you
01:11:12
know, like CNN or Fox, there's been several media outlets that have been caught red-handed paying people to act
01:11:22
as witnesses. Now, to me, this doesn't have this doesn't lead to the idea that it was a conspiracy or that it was a
01:11:30
hoax. What to me this leads to is that news media has an agenda, >> right? And and so by, you know, we see
01:11:40
this. I think the last one was CNN had uh the Trump riers and they figured out, well, it wasn't it wasn't actual riers.
01:11:48
It was, you know, CNN's cameraman. You know, look, I understand that you have to create content. But the fact of the
01:11:56
matter is this this whole new way of doing news, being first, who cares about being right and all. if we have to
01:12:04
manipulate the news, if we have to pay or fake eyewitnesses, um then at least we have a story that we have content.
01:12:11
Well, I just think that is utter [ __ ] I don't think it's responsible. And you know what? When
01:12:16
when news has they do it because news has become so competitive, you know, there's these 24-hour news networks,
01:12:22
there's news everywhere. It's become so competitive. But you would think that at
01:12:26
the same point that that would be their fear. you know, if we are caught red-handed mishandling information or
01:12:33
giving out bad information that the >> that would be the death of us >> that the viewers would move on to
01:12:38
somebody else. >> Yeah. And I I actually wish people would. I mean, if you're going to
01:12:42
constantly give out misinformation, if you're going to fake content, then yeah, stop listening to that. Stop watching
01:12:48
that. Stop going with their agenda. Stop paying these people money by you watching them. They get ads and all that
01:12:55
stuff and just knock it off. I mean, it's just not responsible. Um, as far as I know that Alex Jones has talked
01:13:03
multiple times that he's going to dive back into this because of the, you know, the misinformation and trying to get to
01:13:10
the bottom of it again. Look, I'm a fan of Alex Jones. I' I've watched several of his videos. I watched several several
01:13:18
of his videos on Sandy Hook. Um, I don't think Alex Jones is a bad guy, but he he
01:13:24
has an agenda as well. I mean, and his audience is the conspiracy, the truth seeker audience. Um, I my hope is that
01:13:34
he actually dives into it and looks at it on a realistic level and uncovers the actual truth.
01:13:40
>> You know, I think sometimes when people say, "Well, I'm a truth I'm a truth seeker."
01:13:45
>> Well, I think you're more of a question seeker >> and you're not trying to find the
01:13:49
answer. you want once you I think a lot of people's attention spa spans are so small that they get to the point where
01:13:56
they find the question and they don't dive in more to find the answer >> right >> so it's like oh great well see this this
01:14:03
is kind of odd don't you think okay well what's the answer so you know if you're
01:14:08
going to be a truth seeker be that and not a question seeker all right let's move on to something else because we do
01:14:13
only have so much time and I there is some things that I want to get to here one of them being this news news article
01:14:19
that came out shortly after the Sandy Hook uh tragedy and it's titled top 10 myths about mass shootings. Now, uh
01:14:28
we're not going to go through all 10 of them, but there are a few that I'd like to go through uh kind of quickly here.
01:14:34
If anybody wants to read all 10 10 of them, a simple Google search, this will be the first thing that pops up.
01:14:40
>> All right, so the first myth is that mass murderers kill indiscriminately. >> Well, that they snap and then kill
01:14:47
indiscriminately. And the reality of that according to this article is that mass murderers typically plan their
01:14:54
assaults for days, weeks or months. They are deliberate in their preparing for their missions and determined to follow
01:15:02
through no matter what. And this is one thing that I was talking about regarding
01:15:07
the high school. And we we had said that if he wanted revenge that he would have
01:15:12
gone to the high school. And I think that that you could take this argument either way. according to this this
01:15:18
article here, right? The argument one way would be that going to the high school even though he saw the police uh
01:15:25
cars there that he would have went in and attempted this attack anyway. >> Mhm. >> Uh the other argument that could be made
01:15:32
is that they were simply an obstacle that he was not going to be deterred from carrying out his mission and
01:15:39
therefore he went to plan B or or went off on the fly and did something, you know, went outside of his plan. All
01:15:46
right, the next myth that we're going to talk about is that enhanced background checks will keep dangerous weapons out
01:15:53
of the hands of these mad men. >> And the reality is most mass murderers do not have a criminal record or have a
01:16:00
history of psychiatric hospitalization. >> And the other myth is that restoring federal ban on assault weapons will
01:16:07
prevent these horrible crimes. The reality is the overwhelming majority of mass murderers use firearms that would
01:16:14
not be restricted by an assault weapons ban. In fact, semi-automatic handguns are far more prevalent in mass
01:16:21
shootings. Of course, limiting the size of ammunition clips would at least force
01:16:27
a gunman to pause and reload or switch weapons. Mhm. And I look, I think we all can agree that if you got rid of, you
01:16:36
know, if you got rid of all arms altogether, no guns, that these crimes wouldn't happen,
01:16:45
>> right? Right. I mean, or or they would be forced to use find a different weapon, which would be less um you know,
01:16:52
violent uh of a situation >> or or possibly more violent. I mean, you'd think >> Oh, sorry. I meant in a number of
01:16:59
victims type situation, but >> right, but what I'm saying is that, you know, uh there would still be people
01:17:05
that would want to get revenge on their high school or whatever. And if they didn't have any guns, then there's other
01:17:10
means, you know, explosives or whatever, and then the kill count actually could be way higher.
01:17:16
>> Mhm. And one thing I do want to point out that was very obvious when doing the
01:17:20
research for this particular case. Uh we talk about gun laws. All right, and and
01:17:25
bring those into question when these events take place. We got to be clear here because laws are only good if
01:17:32
they're followed. And in this particular situation, we had two gun laws that were
01:17:38
broken by the shooter by Adam Lanza. Now, had those gun laws been obeyed, then this this probably would have never
01:17:46
have happened. At the time in the state of Connecticut, and it may still hold true to this day, but at that time, to
01:17:53
to own a gun, to be a gun owner, you had to have been of the age of 21 or older.
01:17:58
Adam Lanza was 20 at the time of of of this crime. >> Right. >> And the other law is that there are not
01:18:03
to be any firearms on school property, which he obviously broke as well. Mhm. >> The there has been a big argument as far
01:18:10
as, you know, there's so many people that came out and said in the beginning of this situation that, you know, if
01:18:16
Nancy Lanza would have just kept her guns locked up better that this would have never have happened. There's plenty
01:18:22
of evidence to to to prove to us that some of these guns were purchased for Adam's use. And we talked about the gun
01:18:30
locker or the gun safe having no signs of being broken into or being tampered with. He clearly had access to that gun
01:18:38
safe. >> Yeah. I mean, I think there's tons of missteps. Uh but I think going back
01:18:43
through his history, I mean, what a tough spot for her to be in uh trying to communicate with her son, trying to have
01:18:50
her son have some kind of normal life. But because of those missteps, I think it created this giant tragedy. And the
01:18:56
last myth that we will address is increasing security in schools and other places will deter mass murder. The
01:19:04
reality their answer that they give is most security measures will only serve as a minor inconvenience for those who
01:19:10
are set on mass murder. If anything, excessive security in a fortresslike environment serve as a constant reminder
01:19:18
of danger and vulnerability. And I got to say, Captain, I disagree with that last one. You know, I didn't didn't
01:19:24
select ones on from this article that I that I just were were things and ideals that I wanted to put out there for
01:19:31
things that I believe in. This last one I disagree with because exactly in this situation in this exact situation with
01:19:38
Sandy Hook, we saw some preventative measure put into place, right? We saw that they had the the front doors were
01:19:45
locked. You couldn't get in without having permission or or being granted permission. I do think that him having
01:19:51
to shoot out that glass there, that did give some kind of warning to people inside as to what was going on. This was
01:19:58
also a school that had practiced lockdown procedures before in the past and a lot of the teachers went into
01:20:06
lockdown mode during this attack and I absolutely believe wholeheartedly that that did save some lives. Now I'm not
01:20:16
saying that um you know it says something about fortress-like environment only serves as a constant
01:20:21
reminder of danger and vulnerability. I don't think that our schools or our shopping malls or places of business
01:20:27
should be fortress-like. You know, that's a little bit above and beyond and ridiculous. But I do think that we live
01:20:33
in a day and age where where these certain safety pro procedures, lockdown procedures, and certain safety and
01:20:41
security features should be used and utilized in these environments. >> Well, I have zero problem with our
01:20:48
schools being fortresses because uh I Look, if you can go to a place to get an education, you should feel safe.
01:20:56
>> Y >> uh and I and I and I wish you know these these school shootings are becoming so
01:21:02
common that it's like just put an officer at each school and maybe that deters it a little bit. Yeah, there's
01:21:09
going to be holes and gaps, but >> that would be something that we can do instantly that I think would uh would
01:21:15
change the outcomes. >> It would be a giant leap forward. >> Yeah. And obviously I I just wish this
01:21:21
event never took place. Uh and it was a probably the toughest case for us to cover as far as emotionally uh and very
01:21:29
tough to cover with the fact that the most of the research that you find talks more about a hoax and more about a
01:21:37
conspiracy than the actual events. >> And of course our hearts and thoughts and prayers go out to anybody anywhere
01:21:44
affected by this horrible tragedy. Um, words can't describe what took place that day. And I I do I do hope and
01:21:53
believe that some healing is taking place. And and we're we're under five years since this event took place. Um, I
01:22:01
know that the grieving process doesn't end for all of us. Uh, but some of us hopefully are starting to heal.
01:22:06
>> And we we had several listeners that reached out to us saying that they were from the area, that they were involved.
01:22:13
And uh as far as the conspiracy stuff goes, uh they said, "Look, this was reality to us. Uh and we felt it and we
01:22:22
had to deal with it and we're still dealing with it. So our hearts go out to them." Recommended reading for this
01:22:27
week. I'd like to recommend New Town, an American tragedy by Matthew Leak. Matthew is a journalist for the Daily
01:22:33
News New York. His book, New Town, is a meticulous account of the New Town Massacre in its aftermath. This is a
01:22:41
definitive journalistic account of New Town and an essential examination of the facts not only of that horrific day, but
01:22:49
the perfect storm of mental instability and obsession that preceded it. Drawn from previously undisclosed emails,
01:22:57
police reports, and in-depth interviews, New Town, an American tragedy, breaks through the misinformation to present
01:23:04
the comprehensive story that must be told if we are going to prevent another American tragedy. Pick up New Town by
01:23:12
Matthew Lee Shack. You can do that by going to our website, true crimegar.com, and click on the recommended page. And
01:23:18
until next week, be good, be kind, and don't litter. [Music] [Applause]