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Welcome to True Crime Garage. Wherever you are, whatever you are doing, thanks for listening. I'm your host Nick and
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Next up captain, we have Ashley who's all the way out in Pueblo, West Colorado. And a big we like your jib to Jill in
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right. That's enough of the business. All right, everybody gather around, grab a chair, grab a beer. Let's talk some
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true crime. As hard as they were to hear at times, we have sat through the interviews of
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four of the five individuals being interviewed for the murder of Kimberly Cates.
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And now we have Steven Spader, who is left. Chris Gribble gave us a good amount of information, and he showed us
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what kind of heartless individual he actually is. It's time for Steven Spader. Did he tell the same story as
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Gribble? In a nutshell, no. Instead, Spader threw his childhood friend right under the bus.
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The affidavit sums it up best. Quote, Spader told the police in substance that he did not commit the charged crimes,
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that he did not know who did it, that whoever did it should get the death penalty.
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He also stated that on October 4th, he was at the Pheasant Lane Mall in Nashua with Christopher Gribble while he pawned
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jewelry. Presumably the jewelry taken from the Kates' home. Spader then lawyered up and
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refused to talk to the authorities. This is confusing. As we saw, these boys took pains to make
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sure that they were not caught. They wore gloves. They got rid of their clothes. They cleaned the blood evidence
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up with bleach and other cleaning agents. But then they told everyone they knew about the murders.
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Here's what the affidavit says the boys blabbed about to people. During the day on Sunday, Spader told
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Jamie Hollins, remember he was at Kyle Fenton's house, all about the murder, quote, because he trusted him.
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As we know, they also told Finn all about it and his mom was the one who actually called the police.
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Gribble said that they threatened Eldon Spikes on Sunday. Remember that Spikes was hanging out
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with the four of them that Sunday, and they all had gone together to the pawn shop to sell some items stolen from the
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house. When Spader found out Spikes' girlfriend knew about the murder, he threatened
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him, and so did Gribble. They showed a number of people the knives on Sunday, but then became
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concerned that so many people knew, so they cleaned the knife and the machete and the sheaths with bleach and alcohol,
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and then buried the knives in the woods. They also buried a pearl necklace they stole from the Cates home
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that they could not pawn. These items were collected by investigators after Gribble led them to
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the burial spot. This is not laid out in the affidavit, but it seems likely that at least one of
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them told his girlfriend as we know that Glover's girlfriend called and yelled at
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him about it. Also, Jillian Baptiste, Spader's girlfriend, was included in an outing to
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the Pheasant Lane Mall where they pawned the jewelry. She testified that she later learned
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what they had done and cut ties with Spader. Right. And let's go back to the idea
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that we know that Gribble is a horrible person, but he's also telling the authorities, "Hey, Spader's actually the
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real deal." So, now let's get into the autopsy and the charges. The medical examiner found that Kimberly
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Cates died from 32 sharp injuries to her head, neck, torso, left arm, and left leg from two different weapons. Manner
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of death, of course, homicide. She was alive, unfortunately, for the entirety of the attack per the medical examiner's
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testimony. During all of the blows, she was alive. These included one that broke apart her upper arm bone and two
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that broke open her skull and sunk into her brain. The medical examiner also said that her throat was cut and
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one eyeball was dislodged from the force of the blows. Jamie, the 11-year-old girl, suffered
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multiple debilitating injuries. She had a broken jaw. She had a punctured lung. She had to have part of
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her foot amputated as well as skin grafts for multiple lacerations that required plastic surgery. One wound
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penetrated and fractured her skull, her elbow was broken, she had multiple stab wounds from what looked like a small
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knife. Per the sentencing memo, quote, "Her treating physicians at Children's Hospital in Boston testified that they
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had never treated any patient, adult or child, with that many stab or hack wounds." End quote. A doctor testified
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at one of the trials that Jamie would have died of a punctured lung if she had lost consciousness before calling the
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police. Within 2 days, the detailed arrest affidavit we have been reading from was filed with the
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Milford District Court that laid out the case against the four who participated in the attack on the Kates family.
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Per WMUR, quote, "A little after 6:00 a.m. on Tuesday, October 6th, the state attorney
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general's office issued a press release to the media that said four arrests have
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been made in connection to the Mount Vernon killing and attack. Before noon on that same day, Spader,
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Gribble, Marks, and Glover were arraigned one by one at Milford District Court."
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So, they're going to charge all five of them. Yeah, so Chris Gribble and Steven Spader
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were charged with first-degree murder, attempted murder, and conspiracy to murder, as well as a bunch of lesser
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charges. William Marks and Quinn Glover were charged with burglary, conspiracy to burglary, and robbery. They were
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warned that prosecutors would seek additional indictments when they presented their cases to a grand jury.
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In early November, more charges were forthcoming. Autumn Savoy was charged with two counts of hindering
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apprehension or prosecution and one count of conspiracy to commit hindering apprehension or prosecution. This was,
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of course, because of his throwing the evidence bag into the river and then lying to police about the false alibi.
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Question for you, maybe you know this. Um do they have to charge these individuals
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therefore they can use that as like some leverage against them to testify? Well, yes, of course, but they also have
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to charge them just to hold continue to hold them. At some point, if you don't charge them, they they have rights as a
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citizen who's not being detained and they have to be released. So, I think what you have here, Captain, is when you
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got a a whole batch of [ __ ] that you have to um charge with an assortment of charges,
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I think not only does it take some time to It takes time to hash that out. Who's
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guilty of what? And what will the public decide they're guilty of and and agree to as well.
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So, it's hard to overstate the shock. You know, we've just spent an hour or so on this case, but I want everybody to
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really kind of sit and think about this for a minute because it's really hard to state the
00:11:04
amount of shock that ensued from the arrest of these boys. They had their problems, of course, but in general, no
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one saw this coming. We talked about the area. They This place had not had a murder
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in over a hundred years. And then when you solve it this quickly or you are making arrest this quickly and the
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public can see what's going on, and now they're being told that the perpetrators
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are children, essentially, it's It was I mean, the the area was in shock from the murder itself and from
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the attack itself, but now you double down on that that the perpetrators they look like kids on the evening news.
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They don't look like some monster that strolled into town and and took away one of your own.
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Well, again, it also depends on what picture they're getting. You know, if if you take any of these kids and and
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go back 3 years, some of these kids were doing all right then. And obviously, the
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age is a lot younger, so they look way more innocent. But just imagine what these parents are going
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through. We know through some of the testimony that some of the parents knew that the these kids were going down the
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wrong path. Mhm. But maybe down the wrong path for some kids is like, "Oh, well, now he's he
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smokes, or we caught him smoking some weed, or we caught him with a beer, or we, you know, we caught him making out
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with his girlfriend, or whatever whatever it would be, right?" To go down the wrong path. But
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most parents are not going to assume the wrong path is taking them down to heinous murder for no reason other than
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they just wanted to murder somebody. The ABC News put it pretty succinctly saying that friends of the teenagers
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were shocked that the boys who came from middle-class families and participated in activities like school musicals and
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the Boy Scouts would conspire to commit such brutality. The community, they not only blamed the the boys, but
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some people in the community were blaming the parents of these kids as well, saying that the parents must have
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ignored the signs, that they enabled them. Yeah. And labeling the boys as evil monsters,
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psychopaths who deserved the death penalty. Many people also believed that there
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were varying levels of culpability among the pack of five. After all, according to what the boys were saying, only two
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of them actually participated in the physical attacks on our two victims. Savoy wasn't even at the Trow Road house
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at all. Thankfully, none of them were granted bail. They were going to sit in jail and wait
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for their trial. They would have to stay there until their trial date. While all of this was going on,
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our survivor, sixth grader, Jamie Cates attended her mother's funeral in a wheelchair.
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She was able to return to school the week of October 27th. She and her father issued a statement
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that thanked all of the first responders, doctors, law enforcement, and community members.
00:14:18
So, what's the story about the the high school yearbook? This is an interesting one, and this is
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not something that we would have in a lot of our cases given the age of the perpetrators, but right now we have
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these five young men, as disgusting as they are, they're sitting in a jail cell waiting for their trials. And we have
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the state that's going to be busy preparing indictments and working to build their
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case against these individuals. In the meantime, the 2009-2010 school year is drawing to a close.
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And the yearbook is going to be released. And this takes place in March of 2010.
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The high school yearbook contained pictures of all of its students, as one would expect, but in this case, it
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includes even the ones in jail for the Cates murder. Remember, two of these guys were still in high school at the
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time of these crimes. In fact, they were picked up at school when the police wanted to question these guys.
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Right. So, David Cates, he's the father of our young surviving victim. He's the husband of our other
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victim. He sent a letter to the school administrators requesting an apology for the inclusion of photos of Quinn
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Glover and William Marks in that year's yearbook. His letter read, "I can't understand why you made such a
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disrespectful decision. Jamie is going to the school in two very short years. How can she have respect
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towards the administration when you were so disrespectful toward her mother's memory?
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Jamie and our families will survive this slap in the face, but I think the bigger
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picture is the message you sent to students by condoning the immortalization of these soulless young
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men that consciously, with intent, invaded our home and took my beautiful wife from Jamie and me."
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Chances are that this is was the last thing on the administrator's mind. They probably
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You see what I'm saying? Like, maybe one of these kids played on a soccer team earlier in their career, high school
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career, and they won a state championship, and their picture is somewhere up in the hallway.
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Administrator might not that might not pop into their head that they need to go take that down.
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Just like the administrators are not in charge of every decision that the yearbook is making. There normally is a
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class for that or um after school group for that. So, it wouldn't be the first thing on their
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mind. Now, mind you, again, the person who Whatever teacher is in charge of putting together the the yearbook
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probably should have popped that into their brain. Right. I mean, the the school
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administration is in control of of whatever class is in charge of the the yearbook. What's crazy is that this is
00:17:20
this is a conscious decision. It's not as though the yearbook was sent in for printing in September and when the
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murders happened in October, no one thought to take out the pictures of the two boys. Rather, the school consulted
00:17:33
with the Marks and Glover parents who said they wanted to leave the pictures of their sons in the yearbook. So, the
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school decided to go along with that. Mhm. I I get what you're saying. If somebody
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plays on the soccer team and you got 16 other kids on the team and coaches and what have you, you it's very difficult
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to go back and retake that picture. It's pretty easy to leave leave the little square picture out of
00:18:00
the actual yearbook. And I think to to take it a step further that David Cates is is very right.
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His daughter who was attacked by these guys Mhm. she is going to be attending that school
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in two very short years. And it just seems like as he said, I think it's a slap in the face.
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And I think that it's I think it's disrespectful. It's certainly disrespectful for the fact that they
00:18:31
actually talked to the parents and then they like you said, they actually had to
00:18:35
make a decision. It was on their minds. Yeah, I thought it was just something that they might have just
00:18:40
overlooked. And then it's like, oh, come on, give them a break. They got so many
00:18:45
things to deal with to run a school that they might overlooked it. But the fact that they actually made a decision and
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talked to the parents at some point you just tell the parent like Look, I know why you want to leave the
00:18:57
the the kid in the book but we're going to take him out out of respect for the surviving
00:19:05
uh family members and for the victim. Well, and here's here's the issue that that I have with it. I'm 100% on David
00:19:12
Kates' side on this and and I I think it I find it actually appalling. And and the reason why is
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it would have taken no more effort to reach out to David Kates. You realize that this was a decision you were going
00:19:27
to be making and that it would have it would it carries some weight. This is an important decision that you're making.
00:19:34
You understood so much that you reached out to the parents of the students. Reach out to the member of your
00:19:40
community and say, "We reached out to the parents. They would like to keep the pictures in
00:19:46
the yearbook. At least get his opinion." They didn't do that. Right. And and here's the thing. Here's the issue.
00:19:54
It's innocent until proven guilty. These two have not gone to trial yet. They've
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not been actually convicted or sentenced for these crimes. So, I get that. Maybe the idea is leave
00:20:05
them in there because they're innocent. The problem with that is we have a situation where we have confessions of
00:20:12
these individuals and these confessions check out. It's not It's not like their confessions and the the police got some
00:20:21
teenagers to admit to do something that they didn't do. These confessions track.
00:20:26
Yeah, so as an administrator you you go, "I got to call the parents. Ring ring ring." Parents, "Hello?"
00:20:32
Um well, we have confirmed that your kid's a piece of [ __ ] and we're taking them out of the yearbook.
00:20:41
Yeah. I mean all kinds of things. You you can have excuses why if you want to defend yourself to the parents and say,
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"Look, they didn't finish school, so we're not including them." Uh if they are found innocent and they
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attend next year, we'll put their picture back in. The other thing you can do is
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I Personally, I wouldn't have even even consulted with the um with the Glover or Marks parents in this
00:21:04
situation. Now, we have the trials that we need to get to. And this will be five criminal cases
00:21:14
that were scheduled to go before a special grand jury, which would possibly hand down murder indictments, possibly
00:21:21
hand down additional charges. This was apparently enough to scare some of these idiots straight because
00:21:28
what we have here now is that three of the five defendants, this would be Glover, Marks, and Savoy,
00:21:36
they all agreed to testify against the other two, Spader and Gribble. Of course, they want to avoid murder
00:21:44
charges, so they're willing to cooperate. Spader and Gribble were both indicted on murder charges, and under
00:21:52
New Hampshire law, faced mandatory sentences of life in prison without parole if found guilty of first-degree
00:22:00
murder. They were not eligible for the death penalty. Under New Hampshire law, capital murder, for which the death
00:22:08
penalty is an option, was defined at the time as only six types of murder. One, killing an an on-duty law
00:22:18
enforcement officer or judge, a murder for hire, murder committed in connection with the
00:22:24
kidnapping, murder committed during rape, murder committed during certain drug offenses, and murder committed by a
00:22:33
convict already serving a life sentence without parole. In the Granite State's 380-year
00:22:40
history, New Hampshire has executed only 24 people, and none since the year 1939.
00:22:50
Before the trials in August of 2010, one of the scheduled witnesses died. This was Jamie Hollins. He was the buddy
00:23:00
who was with Kyle Fenton when Spader and Gribble showed up and bragged to them about what they had done.
00:23:06
Right. Holland's himself was no angel. He had a record for burglary of an ice cream shop. Must
00:23:13
have been some good ice cream. And at the time of his death was facing another burglary charge.
00:23:20
His mother told that, quote, her son was tormented by what he knew about the Kate's murder.
00:23:30
She said he could not sleep after being told about the attacks and being shown the weapons.
00:23:36
He was stressed and afraid to testify. His mom found him dead in his room one morning in August.
00:23:44
He This is her quote to WMUR. She said, quote, he went to bed perfectly fine, and when
00:23:53
I woke up in the morning, I found him dead. I didn't know what to do. His lips were purple, fingernails, everything.
00:24:01
She continued, "Just the other night he was so stressed out sitting in his room rocking himself back and forth because
00:24:08
he's so stressed. He didn't know what to do." She said her son was on sleeping pills and antidepressants, but seemed
00:24:15
okay that night when he went to bed. It's unclear whether this was a suicide, accidental overdose, or what, but
00:24:22
Holland's was he passed on and was not available to testify against Spader or Gribble.
00:24:29
It makes me wonder what Spader and Gribble might have done that we are not aware of.
00:24:37
Because like I said, you know, boys will sit around and go, "Oh, let's go prank these people, or let's go do this or
00:24:43
that." It seemed like there's a very steep escalation. And I'd probably argue that maybe it
00:24:52
wasn't so steep. That maybe there there are other actions and other heinous things that these
00:24:59
individuals did that we're just not well aware of. And when you have a a friend of these
00:25:07
guys I don't think it's just as simple as well, I now that know that they're capable of murder so maybe they'll come
00:25:15
after me one day or maybe get somebody else to come after me. I think there would have to be more
00:25:21
actions that we're just not aware of that that these friends would know about. And to top that off, you might have a
00:25:28
situation here where somebody is already struggling with some other things, some
00:25:32
other issues, maybe they're a bit unstable themselves. And then you you add to that
00:25:38
the fear of one testifying against these people but also is there some guilt that this individual was
00:25:47
was harboring that that they felt guilty for Who knows? I mean, maybe this person
00:25:55
said to themselves when they were being told what what these two monsters had done
00:25:59
that they weren't going to turn them in or they weren't going to do anything about it.
00:26:03
Right. You know, so it could be a whole whole bunch of stuff and and regardless, it's just
00:26:11
these events, these horrible things that people for whatever reason do to one another
00:26:18
and then they put so little thought into it that there are real victims. This isn't just something This isn't Grand
00:26:24
Theft Auto that you play on your PlayStation 4. Mhm. These are real people. These are real
00:26:30
consequences. You've not only killed this woman and really almost destroyed the life of this this
00:26:39
child but then her every one of her family is a victim. And then the perpetrators, everyone in
00:26:46
their families are victims as well. And it's it's just amazing that the that there's so little thought put into
00:26:55
any of these actions by some of these people. Now, Steven Spader his trial would start
00:27:03
in 2010. He pled not guilty. Needless to say, the state came out swinging causing some jury members to shed tears
00:27:13
with uh like {quote} Kim and Jamie's screams did not stop him. Their cries, their begging, their
00:27:23
pleas did not stop him because he was so merciless and he and Gribble were focused on what they intended to do and
00:27:34
planned on doing all along. And the simple way to put that is to break in and kill whoever was inside for fun, for
00:27:44
kicks, ultimately for a few pieces of jewelry. A big cheers to everybody. A big cheers
00:28:18
to you, Colonel. And a special cheers to anybody that is still homeschooling their children. That
00:28:25
would be a very tough task. So, this drink is for you. And cheers to Well, don't have a drink,
00:28:32
but cheers to those who are still dealing with their parents homeschooling them. That can't be easy either. So
00:28:39
Yeah, I drink Pour a little out for everyone. My dad doesn't know math. We're all into this all in this
00:28:46
together. So, the Spader trial is the key one here, Captain. Because remember, he is the guy that you
00:28:54
want to sink. He's not only one of the most evil of the five, but he's also the guy that didn't really admit to
00:29:01
anything. We got everybody else singing like a bunch of birds saying this is what happened, but Spader, last time he
00:29:08
spoke to investigators, he says, "Yeah, I was with Gribble when he was out there uh pawning some jewelry.
00:29:15
Uh I wasn't there that night. I didn't kill anybody, and I don't know who did." Yeah, I I told you how big of a
00:29:21
douchebag this guy is. Um at his trial, at some point it was his birthday, and he asked his lawyer, "Do you think the
00:29:30
jury will sing Happy Birthday to me?" And he like laughing all smug. Mhm. And what I can say nice about his lawyer is
00:29:40
that he he definitively said, "No. Like, that's the dumbest question you ask, you
00:29:46
idiot." Well, speaking of Spader's attorney, the attorney mounted a defense which
00:29:52
included testimony from a forensic scientist that stated that no DNA or fingerprint
00:29:58
evidence belonging to Steven Spader connected him to the scene of the crime. Of course, an awful lot of
00:30:07
circumstantial evidence did connect Spader to the crime, such as his sweatshirt with his name on it found in
00:30:13
the trash bag containing containing stolen items from the Kates' home. And the defense attorneys
00:30:20
also warned the jury that Spader's co-conspirators or people that had already confessed to some of these
00:30:29
crimes, they were going to testify against him. But, keep in mind, jury, that Marks,
00:30:35
Savoy, and Glover, who will testify against my client, all received deals from the state lessening their
00:30:42
sentences. Now, what do we know about Steven Spader? People who knew him said that in years
00:30:49
past he was a good kid, a nice guy. But then in the summer before his sophomore year, Spader seemed to change.
00:30:56
He stopped paying attention to his schoolwork, started wearing all black and painting his fingernails black.
00:31:03
He drew a swastika on his head and declared that he was a member of the Crips. I do not mind I don't think that's their
00:31:11
symbol. I do not mind the children or the peeps wearing the black. I do not, you know,
00:31:16
dye the hair black, paint the fingernails. Doesn't bother me. Where I get a little concerned, and I'm
00:31:23
saying that sarcastically, please hear the sarcasm in my voice, is the swastika on someone's head and
00:31:30
then claiming to be a member of a criminal enterprise such as the Crips. That's how I don't mind it so much. At
00:31:37
least they're branding themselves so you can see their dumbass coming. At some point, and it seems to be linked
00:31:45
to a possible bad breakup, he began cutting himself. And he was to be on medication for
00:31:54
bipolar disorder, but he would often stop taking this medication. And he was also running away
00:32:02
from his parents' home. He had anger management issues and his anger would increase if he was off of
00:32:09
his meds or taking recreational drugs. Now, I don't know if his adopted parents knew this or not. I think there was
00:32:16
speculation that he did have some trauma in his um younger years before they actually
00:32:23
adopted him. Yeah, and it is a bit of a question mark if they knew this in advance or not.
00:32:32
Uh by the time of the murder, this once good kid uh was now a high school dropout who
00:32:38
still lived with his parents. Well, do you do you know anything about when he was real little?
00:32:45
Yes, and I was going to get into that. Okay. Um and they were forcing him to seek
00:32:51
counseling and they did tell him he needed to get his GED, which he he did and he was taking classes at a community
00:32:59
college. This all at the time of the actual murder. Now, according to the Boston Herald friends told the paper
00:33:06
that they believe Spaeder was a candidate for suicide, not for homicide. His mood and behavior grew darker as he
00:33:14
matured, they said. Spaeder was in and out of treatment programs. He shaved his head, abused marijuana and speed and cut
00:33:22
and burned his own skin. Yeah, well, there was actually a call from his therapist to his parents
00:33:28
stating that he made several threats against them. You know, saying that he wanted to kill
00:33:34
his parents and the parents were like, is this something we should be worried about? Because I would be as a parent.
00:33:39
My kid saying he wants to kill me and they're saying, no, no, it's actually more of a coping mechanism and and he
00:33:45
probably actually just wants to hurt himself. Right. And you want to say to the therapist,
00:33:50
well, you were wrong about that one because if this would have if they would have
00:33:54
been free any longer, I would actually think that Spaeder would have went after somebody else.
00:34:01
Either on his own or with the help of these guys. That's I think that's for certain.
00:34:06
Yeah. Now, his grandmother, Mary Ann Spaeder, said of Spaeder's parents that they did
00:34:13
everything for this boy. They gave him everything. They were devoted to this kid. His parents, she says, were the
00:34:20
nicest people. I don't know how something like this could happen. Now, Spaeder's adoptive parents, who adopted
00:34:28
him at just 5 days old, had forced him to go to a treatment program when they observed a dramatic
00:34:35
change in his behavior. This was when he was 16 years old. This live-in retreat was just months
00:34:43
before the murder. The It was an expensive program that they took on themselves in hope of
00:34:52
turning their son around. At the trial, prosecutors called a lot of witnesses to
00:34:59
establish that Spader was, in fact, a psychopath and that he planned to murder someone long in advance. They presented
00:35:07
evidence that in the months leading up to the attack, Spader hung out often with Gribble, Marks, Glover, and Savoy.
00:35:16
During this time, he talked about breaking into people's homes and killing them.
00:35:22
He also talked about eating people and roasting their bodies, putting heads on stakes, putting bodies in a wood
00:35:28
chipper, creating displays out of the bodies for the media to later find, torturing,
00:35:34
creating chloroform to knock out victims so they could be killed in silence. He spent time trying to make chloroform at
00:35:42
his home, and he had purchased a knife just days before the crime. And Spader formed a group of losers
00:35:49
called the Disciples of Destruction, DOD for short. Wow, what a cool name. Yeah. He
00:35:58
Mhm. was the self-appointed president of his little club. He actually drafted a mission statement that called for
00:36:05
bloodshed, and he and Marks cased out the Trow Road home, as we've already talked about, and selected that house to
00:36:13
hit. They then told Gribble that the crime was to be Gribble's initiation into the DOD.
00:36:22
Spader told Savoy to provide them with an alibi. It's not clear why Savoy was not
00:36:29
included in the actual committing of the crime. Right. So, we have all these guys saying
00:36:37
that, "Look, Spader, he's the evil one or the most evil one. He is the leader and we've all confessed not only to what
00:36:46
Spader did, but what we have done. And Spader's still not confessing. So, now they're going to
00:36:53
testify against him. And during the testimony, this is going to offer some more details about that
00:37:00
actual night and things leading up to the crime and even after saying that, you know, Spader attended a
00:37:06
high school football game on that Saturday. There, at the high school football game, he tells Glover to be
00:37:12
ready that night because he was going to call him so that they could go break into a
00:37:17
house. He also gave Glover a list of ingredients to purchase and instructions to make chloroform.
00:37:26
Glover was to bring gloves with him and a knife. The group texted about their plans
00:37:32
throughout the day. About 10:00 p.m., Gribble texted Spader, "Cool. Ought to be a good party." To which Spader
00:37:39
responded, "We'll have fun." Around 1:30 a.m., Spader texted Glover, "You've got to get out soon because
00:37:48
we're ready. We need completion of the DOD to go on." Glover waffled about going and Spader
00:37:56
ordered him to join them. Eventually, Glover snuck out of his house and got into Gribble's car with
00:38:02
the rest of the DOD. And on the way to Trow Road, Spader declared that the purpose of the
00:38:10
night was to get Chris into killing. So, again, we keep pointing out that this could, on
00:38:18
the surface, to some seem like, "Oh, it's just teenagers talking. This is a lot of talking.
00:38:25
Yeah, that's right. a lot of preparation for things that seem to be about what they're all
00:38:30
talking about. And that's why I'm saying I guarantee you there was there's other stuff.
00:38:36
Whether it's cruelty to animals, whether it's bullying, whether it's other break-ins, other little crimes, that was
00:38:44
all I guaranteeing you were happening before this murder. And I'm going to try to go through this
00:38:50
without getting too much more into the details of the actual attack itself. Be One, it's hard to get through and two,
00:38:58
we've discussed it pretty well so far, unfortunately. Now, Quinn Glover did testify that he saw Spader physically
00:39:06
kill Kimberly. Billy Marks testified that in the light of the full moon that night, he could see Spader chopping at
00:39:14
the people in the bed with the machete. After they turned the light back on, he saw Steven Spader kick Jamie in the
00:39:22
chest and hit her in the head with the machete. After Gribble stabbed Jamie and threw
00:39:28
her, Spader made him come over and stab Kimberly a few more times. Then he went over to Jamie and kicked her and struck
00:39:35
her with the machete and said something this is beyond bizarre. He stated, "I'm bored."
00:39:44
Despite this seemingly lackadaisical attitude toward the murders, Spader later told his buddies that the whole
00:39:51
thing was a rush. He was euphoric and felt like he had just gotten off of a roller coaster. He joked about how
00:39:58
Kimberly woke up to being hacked with a machete. When he found out that Jamie had
00:40:04
survived, Spader turned to Gribble and said, "You're an idiot. You can't even kill a fifth grader." Spader's friend
00:40:11
Kyle Fenton testified that that Spader bragged about the killings afterwards as well.
00:40:17
Now, the defense did their best to raise questions about who actually did the killing and tried to undermine the
00:40:25
testimony of the three witnesses, Glover, Savoy, and Marks. They pressed Marks about boast he had made about
00:40:31
stabbing somebody with a knife. Defense attorneys presented evidence that Glover's weapon of choice was an
00:40:38
axe, saying that he posted a photo of himself with one on his MySpace page. So, they're really just trying to
00:40:47
present the idea that these other three could have done the murder without Spader.
00:40:53
But, the defense called no witnesses whatsoever in the course of the trial, and Spader did not testify in his own
00:41:01
defense. And Spader's behavior prior to and at the trial did not do him any favors.
00:41:08
He threatened three of the witnesses testifying against him while they were on the stand.
00:41:13
This is right in front of the jury. Testimony from Spader's jailmate, a gang member,
00:41:20
named Chad Landry, was probably the most damaging. Landry told jurors he and Spader would pass notes or or kites back
00:41:30
and forth inside books that they slid down the corridor between their cells. Landry was no dummy, and he saw an
00:41:39
opportunity. He pretended to flush the notes down the toilet, knowing Spader could hear it,
00:41:46
but he actually kept these notes and contacted authorities to use the letters as leverage to get himself a reduced
00:41:54
sentence. These letters were gold for the prosecutors, since Spader had not confessed to the crimes.
00:42:02
Landry read some of these notes on the stand. Spader wrote to Landry that he whacked
00:42:09
the mother 36 times, and that he could see brains and lots of blood and that her eyeball was hanging out of its
00:42:16
socket. "It was such an adrenaline rush." He wrote, "I almost hit Gribble with the
00:42:23
machete." In one of the letters, Spader called himself the most sick and twisted person
00:42:29
you will ever meet. He said that he found torture highly enjoyable. "Death doesn't frighten me.
00:42:36
Blood excites me." He wrote, "I've got more [ __ ] wrong in my brain than you can think of."
00:42:43
"But such is life." Another letter explained how he wanted to start a crew or brotherhood. And he set up the home
00:42:50
invasion as a test to see if his friends had the guts to do it. I mean, what a piece of work.
00:42:57
Well, this testimony right here is really the slam dunk for the prosecution because we have all these other people
00:43:05
who are saying, "Yes, this is the things that Spader was saying before and the actions he was doing before the murders.
00:43:13
This is what he did at the crime scene when he killed Kimberly." And these are the things that he was
00:43:19
saying afterwards. This guy's testimony is different in the sense that they are presenting notes
00:43:26
in Spader's own handwriting confirming all of the things that these people are saying.
00:43:33
Right. So, now not only are his friends turning against him and confessing, now we have basically a written confession
00:43:41
confirming those confessions. So, the jurors only deliberated for 90 minutes. And
00:43:47
because they also went out to lunch before they decided. Spader was convicted on all counts on
00:43:55
his 19th birthday. Remember, this is where he made the joke about the jury singing him happy birthday.
00:44:04
The state's sentencing memo says his attack was calculated, vicious, and unprovoked. Spader was determined to
00:44:11
find a house, render the occupants unconscious, get bank numbers, large sums of money, torture the residents in
00:44:19
the house, and eventually kill every member of the family. As described in the sentencing memo,
00:44:25
under New Hampshire law, he was sentenced to mandatory life without parole on the first-degree murder
00:44:33
charge, and the court imposed the consecutive maximum sentencing on the remaining charges, which was 76 years.
00:44:41
But, that description of his sentence does not convey the fury with which the judge sentenced Spader.
00:44:49
Hillsborough County Superior Court Judge Jillian Abramson said, "I could go on for days and days and days about the
00:44:58
depth of your depravity, but it is sufficient to say that you belong in a cage, and I will sentence
00:45:05
you to the maximum, and you will stay in that cage for the rest of your pointless
00:45:10
life." And I I wish in a fair world what they would say is, "Look, we're going to put
00:45:14
you in this cell for the rest of your life, but we're also going to give Jamie, the
00:45:19
victim that survived, we're going to give her a machete, and we're going to give her keys, and
00:45:25
whenever she wants to, she can go in there and attack you. So, have fun sleeping."
00:45:31
That sounds fair to me, but more than likely she's not the animal that this guy is, you know, and wouldn't
00:45:39
want to cause that level of harm or hurt to to anyone. Now, Chris Gribble, we still got to deal with this guy. He He
00:45:46
didn't get a traditional trial, and that is because he pled not guilty by reason
00:45:52
of insanity to all of the charges against him. Under New Hampshire law, this means he
00:45:57
forfeited his criminal trial. Instead, his lawyers had to prove to the jury that his actions were the result of a
00:46:05
mental disease or defect. The question was not whether he participated. He already confessed. But whether he did so
00:46:13
in his own right mind. The judge was the same one as in the Spader case. The way this worked is a
00:46:21
little complicated, but basically if the jury found unanimously that Gribble's actions were the result
00:46:27
of mental disease or defect, he would be committed to a psychiatric unit in the state prison rather than just go to
00:46:35
regular prison. And he would be entitled to another hearing every five years to determine
00:46:41
whether he still presented a danger to society. If Gribble's attorneys failed to show
00:46:48
that his actions were the result of mental disease or defect, he would be found guilty of murder.
00:46:54
If this was a unanimous verdict, he would be sentenced to life in prison without parole.
00:47:01
If neither decision was unanimous, it would be a hung jury and Gribble would be retried at a later date.
00:47:08
Gribble's attorneys argued that he suffered from antisocial personality disorder. And all sorts of witnesses
00:47:15
testified either for this point or against it. It is interesting to see the picture
00:47:21
painted of this guy by people who knew him. He was described as a dork, awkward, someone who would ramble on
00:47:28
about uninteresting topics. He was always misreading social cues and the girls called him creepy Chris.
00:47:37
Some testified that he was very smart and nice, although he didn't really seem to understand others.
00:47:45
One mom recalled how he said he loved her cookies and seemed devoted to his Mormon faith.
00:47:52
But he also dressed in camo gear all of the time. This might seem weird, I guess, but he was
00:48:00
a US Army Cadet Corps group. He was in that group. So, maybe it's not that weird.
00:48:08
Yeah, but sometimes, you know, with the ROTC guys, people would pick on them cuz
00:48:13
they had to wear uniforms to school. Right, but I think what they're pointing out here is that he wore the stuff all
00:48:18
the time, and that in fact is weird. But, I'm pointing out he did have a reason or a purpose for wearing it at
00:48:24
least some of the time. He played Dungeons and Dragons. Again, that's just a hobby.
00:48:28
That's weird. Yeah, some people some people say that's weird. That's about as weird as Grand
00:48:32
Theft Auto to me, and a lot of people play that, and I think Grand Theft Auto's probably even more violent.
00:48:39
He got good grades, but started to change around 2008. Autumn Savoy, you know, no saint himself, testified
00:48:47
that Gribble was Robin to Steven Spader's Batman. Gribble's father, Richard, testified
00:48:53
that his son was intelligent, well-spoken, but that he was socially awkward, and also had a warped world
00:49:01
view in which he was always in the right. A friend of Gribble's told the Boston Herald that he himself at
00:49:10
that he saw himself as a destroying angel. And he said he hated his father. Apparently, part of his insanity defense
00:49:19
relied on Gribble testifying that he was abused by his mother. Gribble took the stand and admitted that
00:49:26
he had fantasized about torturing and killing her from the age 14 on because she was abusive.
00:49:35
Now, was it Was it Gribble that also said that he was possibly sexually abused when he was
00:49:41
younger? Uh I didn't get into that. I I didn't come across that. thought I saw something about that.
00:49:49
But, he said, this is per an Associated Press article, he said quote, he fantasized about taking his mother into
00:49:57
the woods and cutting off little pieces of her bit by bit listening to her scream. He also said he thought about
00:50:05
pouring boiling water over her sensitive parts and bending her limbs out of joint
00:50:11
and sprinkling her with sugar so the crows would come and pluck at her saying, "Hey, if I'm going to kill her,
00:50:18
why not make her pay?" But his father testified that his parents were loving, not abusive, and in
00:50:25
fact his son gave him a black eye in the course of an altercation. His mother said all she had done
00:50:34
was once when he was five, whack him on the back with a wooden spoon. There was no abuse.
00:50:42
Other witnesses testified that Gribble's parents were very patient with him, very
00:50:46
involved, homeschooling him and supporting him by participating in the Boy Scouts and
00:50:53
participating in Dungeons and Dragons with him. Richard was an EMT, his father, and Cub
00:51:00
Scout and later troop leader, volunteering so his son could obtain Eagle Scout rank.
00:51:06
As described in an article in the Nashua Telegraph, Richard Gribble said he and his wife tried to teach their son right
00:51:14
from wrong and to instill a set of values in him. Assistant Attorney General Peter Henkley
00:51:21
asked him if he thought they had succeeded and he said, "Given the fact that he's admitted to committing two
00:51:28
very heinous crimes, I'd say no." His father testified that the machete and the knife he used on Kimberly and
00:51:35
Jamie were taken from his home before the attack and he did not know this until after his son was arrested.
00:51:43
Gribble's Facebook page was found to reflect that he considered himself a devout Mormon who loved God and a gun
00:51:50
and knife enthusiast. He wrote on his page, "Although everyone has a light and dark side, mine are very extreme. If I
00:51:57
like you, or at least don't dislike you, I'm the sweetest, nicest person ever. But heaven help me if I truly lose it.
00:52:07
It's not pretty." In a different post, he referenced a hit list that contained seven people whom he said he hated. The
00:52:16
most chilling part on his Facebook page at 11:00 a.m. on Sunday, October 4th, just hours after the attack on Jamie and
00:52:24
Kimberly Cates, he wrote, "I had an awesome time with Steve and Autumn. Dexter is such a funny show."
00:52:32
Well, I think their downfall is they're trying to claim that he's insane, right?
00:52:37
Mhm. But it's not just insane at the time of the murder, it's just insane in general.
00:52:45
But they put him on the stand. And I think this is actually a problem for them because he he is very well-spoken.
00:52:53
Yeah, he took the stand at trial and testified about the attacks. He admitted that he and Spader intended to kill
00:52:59
anyone they found in the home that they chose to burglarize. He even demonstrated how he had held the knife
00:53:07
as he used it on the victims. And he testified that he wanted to shoot people, and he was not certain that he
00:53:13
would not kill again if he was given the opportunity, and described himself as dangerous on the stand.
00:53:22
I think the thing here is from a defense side, or at least from this guy's, you know, this Gribbles
00:53:30
what what he's hoping for, he doesn't really have a whole lot to lose, right? Worst-case scenario, he
00:53:38
ends up getting life in prison without the possibility of parole, which is what he's going to get if he's found
00:53:44
guilty regardless. So, why not try to, you know, poop your pants and rub it all over your
00:53:50
face in front of the jury. Maybe he Maybe he could have put it on a little bit better. I think is what you're
00:53:55
pointing out here. Now, the prosecution had experts, including a psychiatrist who interviewed
00:54:02
Gribble for several hours. And these experts testified that Gribble was in fact sane. He knew the difference
00:54:09
between right and wrong. And prosecutors pointed out that Gribble had been sane enough to plot the crime,
00:54:16
try to cover it up, and try to hide evidence and lie about his involvement. The jury rejected Chris Gribble's
00:54:25
insanity claim and declared him guilty of two counts of first-degree murder, attempted murder, conspiracy to commit
00:54:32
murder, conspiracy to commit burglary, and witness tampering. They deliberated for only 2 hours. It seems like their
00:54:40
lunch was a little bit longer than the previous jury. Our brave, resilient survivor, Jamie, by
00:54:48
this time is still just 12 years old. She was in fact in the courtroom for this trial. She was not asked to
00:54:57
testify. Her father, David, gave a victim impact statement as he had done in Spader's trial, as well,
00:55:06
and thanked the judge for being impartial throughout the trial. The judge thanked Jamie for her presence
00:55:14
in the courtroom, saying it was nice to finally get the chance to meet her. The judge assured her that the men involved
00:55:21
in this horrible crime could never hurt her again. Then, she almost happily imposed the mandatory sentence of life
00:55:30
without parole, telling Gribble, "Infinity is not enough jail time for you." She added a sentence of 50 years
00:55:38
to life plus a maximum of an additional 52 years on other charges. But, how impressive is that that she was
00:55:47
able to one she lives through the attack, she recovers, but to have the strength
00:55:53
to show up and face the attackers in court at 12 years old. That's That's pretty baller.
00:55:59
Billy Marks agreed to plead guilty to conspiracy to commit murder and burglary and to being an accomplice to
00:56:07
first-degree assault in exchange for a reduced sentence. Marks was sentenced to 30 to 60 years. His sentence was in fact
00:56:18
a stiff one because he admitted to helping plan the crime. There are some interesting things within this portion
00:56:26
of the story though, Captain, because remember Spader's defense lawyers, they actually tried to pin the crime, the
00:56:34
murder, on Marks. They emphasized that Marks had been alone in the house with the victims
00:56:41
for some time on that night. This was when he climbed into the basement before the others got into the house.
00:56:48
They implied that he had perhaps done the killing on his own before the rest of them got into the house. The other
00:56:57
interesting thing about Marks too is this is the only bit where I could find that any of the five at one point said,
00:57:05
"Ho, ho, ho, wait a second. Maybe this is not such a good idea." You know, everybody else seemed to be going along
00:57:11
with this all the way. So, what we found here was text messages. Mark actually texted Spader
00:57:20
that they should wait to rob a house until the family that occupied the home was not at home. That I guess he's
00:57:30
trying to deter them from attacking and killing everyone in the house like Spader said that they wanted to do. Now,
00:57:38
unfortunately, and to discredit Marks, that's not what happened. And he went along with this
00:57:47
whole nightmare of a plan. Quinn Glover was charged with only robbery, burglary, and conspiracy
00:57:56
to commit burglary on condition that he would plead guilty to all of those charges and testify
00:58:03
against all of the others. He was sentenced to 20 to 40 years. His shorter sentence was due to prosecutors
00:58:12
recognition of the fact that he was the first one in the group to cooperate with police
00:58:19
and start telling them what actually happened and who did what. Now, what happened to Autumn, the one
00:58:25
that wasn't there? Autumn Savoy pleaded guilty only to charges of hindering apprehension and
00:58:31
conspiracy. In exchange, he got a sentence of 5 to 12 years in prison. He was in fact
00:58:38
paroled in 2015. That brings us, Captain, to the sentencing review. This took place in
00:58:46
June of 2012, and this was a US Supreme Court decision uh handed down with a ruling in the
00:58:54
Miller v. Alabama case, which required the sentence given to Steven Spader to be reviewed. This is because he's a
00:59:02
minor and he received a sentence of life without parole. We're not going to get too much into the
00:59:08
minutia of the legality of all this bit. What does happen is he, by his own rights, gets this review.
00:59:19
He decides that he does not want to be reviewed. He does not want his sentence reduced or changed in any manner. He
00:59:29
refused to cooperate. He would not allow himself to be transported to court for any of the hearings. Regardless if he
00:59:36
wants to participate in this review or not, it's going to have to happen per the law.
00:59:42
So, he's not there to argue his side. However, someone will argue his side for him. Basically, the prosecution is going
00:59:51
to make all of the arguments that they made previously. This guy's a psychopath. He's admitted to killing
00:59:57
people. He's a violent offender. He deserves the sentence that he got. We should not change anything. But, what is
01:00:05
interesting in this whole bit of legal proceedings is that this is when it came out about
01:00:12
the evaluations of Spader and regards to his having been adopted. Spader was adopted at only 5 days old
01:00:22
from a mother who had substance abuse problems. Baby Steven tested positive for marijuana and cocaine when he was
01:00:29
born. And then, in 2008, he starts having all of these problems that we talked about leading up to the
01:00:39
murder. Right. It's worth asking the question, was Spader predetermined to be a violent
01:00:46
offender or violent killer because of his exposure to drugs in utero? The court, during these proceedings,
01:00:53
did not seem to consider this to be a factor in their sentencing process. The court also took into consideration
01:01:01
Spader's statement of regret delivered by his attorneys in court. This is basically his statement of
01:01:08
refusing to go along with this procedure, but also stating that he was in fact sorry for the crimes that he committed
01:01:18
and the harm that he had done. The sentencing judge was not swayed. The court says that they find these
01:01:26
sentiments self-serving, disingenuous, and inconsistent with the defendant's true regret. The judge ruled that Spader
01:01:34
will forever be a danger to society. The court exercises its right of discretion
01:01:40
toward sentencing the defendant to life without parole. They upheld the sentence
01:01:47
that was originally handed down for this guy. There was also a nasty poem that was presented at his trial at
01:01:55
his original trial that he wrote. Mhm. And it shows very it shows no talent at all as far as
01:02:03
being a writer, but it really just goes along with him proclaiming to his his jailmate that he's this horrible,
01:02:12
despicable monster who enjoyed killing someone and would kill again. In June of 2011,
01:02:21
the New Hampshire governor signed a bill expanding the state's death penalty to cover murders committed during
01:02:27
burglaries and home invasions. This law was passed as a direct result of the Kates murder.
01:02:34
The bill was named after Kimberly Kates. House Speaker William O'Brien said, "Our
01:02:39
homes are our sanctuary and this was a necessary enhancement of protection for those in their homes who have the right
01:02:47
to be safe and secure." Jaime is now in college. Her dad has been her supporter every step of the way
01:02:55
and the two remain very close. They still live in the house on Tro Road. Each year on the anniversary of the
01:03:03
attack, David Kates host a golf tournament to raise money for a scholarship in his wife's name.
01:03:11
Many of the police officers and prosecutors who worked on the case participate. The four young men who invaded the
01:03:18
Kates' home and carried out their despicable thrill kill will spend a significant part, if not all, of their
01:03:25
lives in prison. The town of Mount Vernon, New Hampshire is forever changed by their actions.
01:03:32
It's a small comfort that these young men are put away, but it's deeply disturbing that these
01:03:38
promising young people who were given every privilege in life and were members of mainstream communities found each
01:03:46
other, fed on each other, and together carried out their darkest urges. Thank you guys so much for tuning in to
01:04:08
True Crime Garage and spending your time with us. Colonel, do we have any recommended reading this week?
01:04:15
Yes, we do, Captain. This week we are very happy to be recommending The Cases That Haunt Us by John Douglas and Mark
01:04:23
Olshaker. America's foremost expert on criminal profiling provides his uniquely gripping analysis of seven of the most
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notorious murder cases in the history of crime. Check out The Cases That Haunt Us
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by John Douglas and Mark Olshaker. You can find that great title, as well as many others, on our website
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truecrimegarage.com. Absolutely, one of my favorite true crime books. I have listened to it twice
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on Audible. And until next week, be good, be kind, and don't litter. I