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thank you [Music] [Music] thank you welcome to True Crime garage wherever you are whatever you're doing thanks for
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listening I'm your host Nick and with me as always is a man with a reminder that
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Al netchi is a pimple here is the captain yeah some people call me a podcast host but we know the truth
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[Music] I'm an architect it's going to be seen and good to see you thanks for listening
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thanks for telling my friend [Music] today we are featuring unichrome from pipeworks Brewing Company this is a
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BW double r u n beer run for everything true crime check out our website truecrime garage.com make sure
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you sign up on the mailing list and that is enough of the ba as Nas all right everybody gather around grab a chair
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grab a beer let's talk some true crime [Music] with a Zenith ducat missing and then
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found dead and murdered we have a lot of eyewitnesses we have a composite sketch
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we're gonna have all hands on deck with this case to get answers for this murdered eight-year-old there are many
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eyewitnesses so there are many suspects but we're going to go over the most likely suspects here today and you
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nailed it captain and this is a situation where we have everybody that's coming out of the woodwork wanting to
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help wanting to assist wanting to find Justice for this little girl and for the girl's family and the thing is we've
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said this a dozen times on this show and it rings true it rings true when you review these cases no matter what year
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that they are from when somebody kills a child abducts a child and kills them it
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is not just a crime against that victim the victim's family it is ultimately a crime against an entire community and
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that's exactly what you see here people that just want to try to help in any shape or form that they can small or
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large so we're going to have a lot of eyewitnesses we're going to have a lot of people come forward with some
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suspicions and as you know Captain when they release a composite sketch to the public that's going to drum up even more
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tips and more theories that will come about we're going to see hundreds of people interviewed we're going to see
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dozens of people be rumored to be suspects but at the end of the day there's only a couple of good suspects
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and we will start with the ones of note the more prominent one ones the ones that were mentioned in the newspapers
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and we'll work our way from the outside in let's say so a name that will be familiar to a lot of our long time
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listeners is Robert Buell Robert Buell was a child killer he was a rapist he was a torturer he was a horrible
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despicable individual now he's arrested in 1983. so he's out and he's up to no good during the time frame that Hasina
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ducat is killed in 1980. Kelly Ann Prosser is another name that our longtime listeners might recognize
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kellyanne Prosser was another eight-year-old girl who was abducted and killed two years later after Athena
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ducat that case remained unsolved for a long time that case is interesting to Athena's case because it took place two
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years after but just a short distance away as Cena ducat was killed in Upper Arlington Ohio
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and kellyanne Prosser was abducted from her neighborhood which was near the OSU campus
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and Columbus Ohio so for a long time there were people that thought that maybe these two cases could be connected
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because the CNS is still unsolved to this day and kellyanne Prosser's case took a long time to solve and in fact
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Robert Buell was highly suspected and kellyanne Prosser's case in fact so much so that they he was considered by
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many to be the prime suspect now we told you in our episodes which we titled when
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the demons came out it was a four-part series that we did in January of 2021 episodes
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459 through 462. we cover kellyanne Prosser's case as well as the cases against Robert Buell Robert Buell didn't
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have anything to do with kellyanne Prosser and in fact Columbus PD and the individuals investigating Robert Buell
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and his crimes said that they could find no connection nothing linking Robert Buell to Columbus Ohio for 1982 or 1980
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when Kelly Ann and atheneth were killed we now know all of these years later that it was in fact Harold Warren
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Jarrell who killed kellyanne Prosser and that was announced in June of 2020. again if you want more information on on
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those cases go back and listen to when the demons came out this was the first person that was known to have killed
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somebody and be mentioned in the paper and be we're being told the public this guy's being looked at in this case in
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this other case he's now being looked at in Columbus cases after they apprehend him in 1983. of course we know that they
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move on from Robert Buell in these two cases they can't move on from him in other cases that took place in Northeast
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Ohio though because he was too busy up there to be down here if you check out that four part series you're going to
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find out that this guy is an absolute monster and any time that you have a similar type of victim he's going to be
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brought up especially if the crime happened early 80s in Ohio yes instead of looking at somebody so far away let's
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look at somebody closer to the crime scene closer to where all of this went down and we're going to use that based
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off of a profile that is put together of a Cena's killer now this is directly from a website called Long Walk Home
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ua.com and I recommend that you go there and check out what they've done on a Cena's
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case because we are only going to be able to cover a fraction of what they cover on their website they've been
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looking at this case for a very long time putting together very good work on this case and rather than reinvent the
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wheel here I will read a portion of their website now this is under chapter four titled a brutal rapist and killer
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in Upper Arlington and it says almost immediately the uapd believed a Cena's killer was local to Upper Arlington
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he the Killer is very familiar with the area if he's not a local he lives very close
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to the area this is based off of statements given by the Upper Arlington police chief in June of 1980 to the
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newspaper just think about how eerily similar that sounds to the words from Doug Carter and the Delphi case this
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belief was bolstered by two psychological profiles the police received in July of 1980. the profiles
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described a young man 17 to 19 years old who lives within two miles of the scene
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of the slang this is based off of a retired New York City homicide detective who prepared one of these profiles the
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thing here is additionally Captain it did not take long for the Upper Arlington Police Department to believe
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that a Cena's murder was the same man who attacked the nine-year-old girl on May 7 1980 that other attack that we've
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referenced a couple of times and police in the media noted the following similarities between the two crimes
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acina ducat was an eight-year-old girl with brown hair the victim in the May 7th attack was a nine-year-old girl with
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brown hair both crimes happened at similar times of the day when both girls were walking home from school the crimes
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occurred just slightly more than two miles from each other according to One account both crimes occurred within a
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half mile of Route 33 in forested areas similarly another account stated both crimes happened in large open areas
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sheltered from View and less than a half block from Route 33. Route 33 is also that Riverside Drive both girls were
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choked or strangled a red 10-speed bicycle was seen in the vicinity of both crimes both girls were near their homes
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when the crimes occurred police believe both girls were attacked near the street
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and then moved to a location several hundred feet away both attacks were sexually motivated an
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unsuccessful attempt was made to assault the May 7th victim and aceneth was raped
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the description and sketch of acina ducat's murder was similar to the sketch from the May 7th attack because of these
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similarities the chief of police said the best suspect police have in a sceneth slang
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is an unknown man who is also being sought for the assault May 7th of a 10 year old girl who was attacked was she
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returned home from Tremont Elementary School this murder is going to disrupt the local landscape and we're going to
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get other departments involved one of them being the FBI and we're going to be able to get a profile of who they think
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the Killer is yeah there's several done over the years we have the FBI with probably the most definitive profile
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which is received by Upper Arlington Police in 1990 according to this profile Cena's killer was a loner in his early
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20s with few friends was from a family with a strict abusive father and protective mother
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had one or more sisters who were more successful and received more recognition from their parents
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failed in school or work because he was not accepted by fellow students and employees
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may have sought treatment for depression has attacked others but not necessarily
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killed them is physically strong and tends to choke or hit his victims what makes the most sense to me and I don't
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know if you agree with this Colonel but to put together both of these profiles so we look for some of these
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characteristics in this individual but also local law enforcement believes this person is local within two miles of the
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murder scene yeah and I'm gonna go just beyond that two miles there but keep in mind we also have if in fact a Cena's
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killer and the attacker from the May 7th attack are one and the same then we actually have crime scenes that are a
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couple miles apart anyway so that we have to create a radius around both of those crime scenes which will balloon us
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out a little bit further than just that straight up two mile radius from a cenus
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murder scene what we have here what we just reviewed is to me you know we've been told this by John Douglas when you
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go into profile a killer really the best way to do that is you have to profile everything you have to
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profile the killer you profile the victim you profile the area and the situation well here when I review those
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profiles I'm seeing two different things one where we have somebody profiling the
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actual crimes the the crimes that took place and coming up with an assessment and a
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hypothesis based off of what they see from the known facts of those crimes the other what we have is a psychological
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makeup of what our killer is or who our killer is and his background and so we want to look for somebody that
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fits that psychological profile but also fits the physical proximity profile that
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was put together in the other cases so to do that unfortunately we have to bring up a disgusting individual that
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we've never I don't believe we talked about him before on this show yeah I don't want to keep making fun of Bob
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Ruff publicly and that would be child killer David Elliott Penton now David Elliott pin is a Serial child killer and
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unfortunately his address at the time when Athena ducat was killed was roughly four to five miles from the
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crime scene now this individual if in fact he did kill a Zenith it likely would be his first murder
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because his murders all took place later now the thing that scares the hell out of me about the date of the attack on a
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sceneth is around this same time David Elliott Penton who was in the military was shipped off to Korea
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well why does that scare me it scares me for two reasons one it could take him completely out of the
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area and he's not here he did not have the physical ability to be here to commit the crime so then he's not a
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suspect the flip side of that coin is a very dangerous sick individual knew he was
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going away to a place far away for a long period of time and likely fantasized about these types of crimes
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for a long period of his life before he started committing them and may have seen an opportunity to hey I can act on
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some of these fantasies and guess what within days I'm at a Dodge baby I'm on the other side of the planet now I could
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not confirm the exact date of when he was transferred overseas that would be very important now his physical makeup
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his psychological makeup I should say does fit with the psychological profile of a scene of ducat's killer Penton was
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a loner Penton did live in a situation where his sister was more successful than he was in fact he was held back a
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grade and decided I'm going to drop out of high school because it would be embarrassing if I'm in the same grade as
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my younger sister he was raised by a mother and a stepfather and again they're addressed
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very close to this area but unfortunately we can't pinpoint exactly when he was transferred his
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crimes are almost identical to one another his future crimes he would abduct a child
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in his vehicle take them to another location where they would be killed so if I'm picking up what you're putting
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down what you're saying is if he is responsible for this murder for ducat's murder this would actually be his first
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murder based on his known criminal activity that's correct the thing is I believe that this method that
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he used he used it time and time again in probably every single time and a large
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portion of that statement is true based off of his known criminal activity we know it to be fact
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where I have a problem with him being a suspect is I see some movements of the real
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suspect of of of what I think the suspect and who I think the suspect is and the movements of the victim
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don't really ring true with David penton's other crimes and murders because I've said this here before
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captain and I'll say it again I have never seen a sexually motivated child abduction and
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murder where the perpetrator comes into an area removes the victim and kills them or
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brings them back and then kills them and leaves them in the same area where they're abducted from we can go based
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off of witness statements and the scent dog that traced her movements that day that she was roughly
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killed in very close proximity to where the abduction took place right it wouldn't make any sense
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for David Penton to come into this area abductor and then bring her right back he would have taken her elsewhere and
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dumped her in an area where there was nobody out there where he couldn't be seen his vehicle couldn't be identified
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while this location where she's found it's very strange anyways because it's very close to a major road when just a
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block away if this person was local and and knew the area well lived within two miles
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within a couple blocks is a little bit of a wooded area you'd think you think if they're going to leave her body
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somewhere maybe that's where they would leave it yeah again it doesn't make any sense to me for anyone including David
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Elliott Penton too have a vehicle and be able to abduct someone and then take them with him
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only to return them later it just it just doesn't ring true that's not typically how these crimes are committed
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now I know I said the same statement in our Lynn Harper episodes and someone said well
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what about the Lindbergh baby well that's not a sexually motivated abduction that was a Money Motivated
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abduction where the killers were idiots and dropped the baby off of the ladder so it's not anywhere in the same
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neighborhood of the same type of crime David Elliott penton's crimes are in the same neighborhood but he is not from the
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same neighborhood and would never have returned a victim back to the neighborhood in which he took the victim
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so I think we have to look at some individuals that a are closer in proximity to
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Hasina ducat and the crime scene and also individuals or an individual that may have not had the same means may
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not have had a vehicle to transport the victim and that is why she is found so close to
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where the abduction took place [Music] foreign [Music] cheers Captain you guys want to do me a
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solid do me a big solid go to Spotify and look up our show True Crime garage you can listen to the podcast on Spotify
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but you can also follow our music as well so you can go and follow our profile just go to Spotify and search
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True Crime garage and it'll pop up as a podcast or artist go to the artist page and click follow that would be lovely
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and Smoochy Smoochy you can jam the garage music at the gym or in your car how about that all right back to the
00:21:05
case here captain we're gonna move rather quickly because we got a lot of ground to cover here in the second half
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of today's show and that is because we're going to get into some very good suspects now why are they very good
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suspects because they fit some of the physical evidence that we know to be in this murder case now the first
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individual his name is Brett stuttner and I've heard it pronounced strutner or scrutner I say potato you say potato for
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this for the sake of argument let's continue with scrutner I say potato so Brett stuttner he gets on to police
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radar because of a tip actually a couple tips that come in that say Hey you might
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want to look at this guy he's been behaving very strange since the murder took place now interestingly enough at
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the time of the murder he lives about a mile and a half from the corner of Waltham and Hillside so he's very close
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in proximity he fits the proximity of the first profile and he fits the profile the the psychological profile
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that we see as well and this is how he gets onto the radar of police the night of the murder Brett is at a
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bar with some of his friends this bar is near the Ohio State University campus and at the bar he's seen crying or
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weeping and he told other people at the bar that he was afraid to go back to his
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apartment that he could not go home because they are after me and when he is finally returned to his
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home via a friend's vehicle he says he does not want to enter his apartment because again they are after
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me so we have an anonymous phone call that makes its way to the Upper Arlington Police Department that is
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telling them about this suspect's behavior on that night why is this guy acting so weird so strange so paranoid
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the night after a murder takes place in the area keep in mind this is a safe area where they don't have they don't
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commonly have murders taking place like you said he lives within the vicinity of
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what the profile says that this killer possibly could live in once this guy's on the radar we have eyewitnesses coming
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forward saying he could have been there as early as 2 p.m yeah in the direct area of the crime scene and keep in mind
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here when we talk about crime scene there are multiple crime scenes in an abduction and murder case right so we
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have the crime scene of where the abduction took place we know that there was some type of sexual assault in this
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case so we have a location another crime scene where that assault took place and
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then later we have the scene of where the body is located so we have multiple crime scenes that we're dealing with but
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we also have witnesses that are saying this guy could have been as close as the corner in which I believe that she was
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later abducted on the same day that she was abducted so now we got this guy who's behaving
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oddly and we can put him in the area with some different Witnesses but we also learn another interesting fact
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about this individual he owns a red 10-speed bicycle and it's reported that at some point in the summer of 1980 he
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decides to quit riding it he doesn't want to ride it anymore According to some of his friends statements that are
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later given to police which is similar to the idea that a killer will change their appearance maybe they shave their
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beard maybe they grow a beard Maybe or if a vehicle is involved in a crime hey they stopped driving that vehicle
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they sell it they get a new one they get a paint job is pretty common as well right our suspect Brett stuttner on June
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5th 1980. so this is two days after the homicide he is out with some friends and he's
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again dropping these strange lines of are the cops coming after me if these cops don't quit harassing me I'm going
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to kill them and then he goes home to his home his parents home actually that same night
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and he takes his parents vehicle and then he flees the area driving North toward Cleveland the following morning
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at 7 45 a.m police find him stranded on the side of the road in this vehicle in Willoughby Ohio he is losing his mind he
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is telling people hey people are after me he takes his parents car he heads North to Willoughby that's a good two
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and a half hours away if that's not suspicious I don't know what is when we reviewed Ed Kemper and
00:26:10
when we reviewed BTK both of them said the same thing about their early murders that when they first committed them they
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thought just within minutes the police would be on their way that they would hear sirens that everybody knew exactly
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what they did who was guilty and that they were going to be on their way to lock them up as quickly as possible and
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in both cases we know that didn't happen in fact Ed Kemper called the police after he killed his grandparents
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this behavior is not unlike that where this guy was involved in something and he's saying to everybody that's willing
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to listen I think the cops are after me I think the police are harassing me they
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are going to get me I can't go back to my house flees the area to get out of Dodge
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when the police find him and I'll read from the description of what went down here
00:27:02
in Willoughby Ohio because you can't make this stuff up the truth is Stranger Than Fiction my friends
00:27:10
so the report from The Long Walk Home reads as follows on the morning of June 6 at approximately 7 40 a.m police
00:27:18
received a call from a nearby Sunoco station that a car was in a ditch on the Saint Claire exit between Lost Nation
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and Erie Road upon arrival the first patrolman discovered a 1979 Cadillac in a ditch with Brett stuttner lying across
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the front seat after he wakes up the subject I guess this is from knocking on the window
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he then asked Brett to open up the door or the window to the vehicle Brett would not open either in fact he
00:27:52
tries to flee again he's trying to start the vehicle so he can get out of this location get away from this police
00:27:59
officer at this time the police's officer's vehicle was in a position that would block any type of escape from
00:28:06
Brett as he's in the vehicle now we have the patrolman who's trying to get the vehicle unlocked so he can get to Brett
00:28:16
the driver at this time the suspect produced a hypo syringe or hypodermic needle I guess and took
00:28:24
out his testicles and began stabbing the syringe into them sounds like a delightful afternoon at this time we
00:28:31
have another patrolman who's trying to break the window of the vehicle with his night stick and he eventually is
00:28:38
successful now we have our suspect Brett who begins screaming and fighting with the officers
00:28:44
it takes about four officers to bring this guy in right they spray him with mace that has no effect at all
00:28:52
eventually after a real brouhaha they're on the side of the road they eventually
00:28:57
apprehend Brett stuttner and they take him into their custody and they're going to have a whole list of charges to hit
00:29:05
this guy with right he's assaulted basically all four of these police officers and he's also in possession of
00:29:12
this hypodermic needle there's all kinds of things going on here and he assaulted
00:29:17
his testicles now what we have happen is the Upper Arlington Police Department they're going to send two of their
00:29:28
detectives up to interview Brett stuttner who is sitting at the Lake County Sheriff's Office is probably
00:29:36
not sitting too comfortably this mind you is after a statement from one of the correction officers at the
00:29:44
jail that says that he overheard ner say quote I killed an eight-year-old girl so we have the Upper Arlington
00:29:53
police detective they're asking questions to Brett and during the course of the questioning the detectives tell
00:30:01
him we are simply trying to figure out where you were on June 3rd 1980. to which his response is I didn't hurt
00:30:10
anyone okay they're not asking him about the murder they've not told him that they
00:30:15
are there investigating a murder or an abduction they're simply asking him where he was on that day and his
00:30:22
response is I did not hurt anyone this suspect is what I like to call a wackadoo but if we took the time to go
00:30:30
through every crazy statement he made we'd have to do like a six-part series on this I mean this guy is a real
00:30:40
wakadoo yeah and if you review his statement in his interview with police we learn a few things he admits to
00:30:49
owning a red bicycle he also admits that he knows where Frankenstein's cave is located in fact
00:30:56
he says that he had been there on multiple occasions and without giving a pinpoint of time
00:31:03
here he basically admits to being in the general area of where the crime took place on June 3rd 1980. so we have a guy
00:31:15
that's behaving oddly he puts himself near or at the crime scene on the day that the crime took place this is a good
00:31:24
suspect and he doesn't look unlike the sketch the composite that they've already released to the public we also
00:31:31
have eyewitnesses that say they see somebody matching his description in this area around the time that a sceneth
00:31:38
went missing so this guy is a good suspect now we need to go back to the timeline we
00:31:45
talked about the timeline that was put together by detective time let's expand that timeline out days
00:31:53
rather than just the minute by minute the detective time gave us so let's go to September 27
00:32:02
1980. this is just a couple months after the murder on this date we have another
00:32:08
attack an abduction attempt that takes place at Olin Tangy Commons Apartment Complex which is not terribly far from
00:32:16
the acina ducat crime scene in this situation we have a victim who is pulled from her bike
00:32:23
the suspect attempted to drag her toward a secluded field but the suspect dropped the victim and
00:32:29
ran away when a passerby saw the abduction and screamed for help the victim assisted the police by having
00:32:37
a sketch made of the suspect the sketch was very similar to the sketch provided by the witness to the acina ducat
00:32:46
suspect okay we have to then back up to the first attack the May 7 1980 attack that took place just one month
00:32:57
before Cena's attack on this date an unidentified victim took the bus from her Tremont Elementary School
00:33:06
at the end of her school Day After exiting the bus on Canterbury Lane she started on her walk home with another
00:33:14
female friend a boy or a young man riding a red bicycle passed by them back and forth a few times
00:33:22
when the female friend eventually had to start walking in a different direction to her own home the 11 year old girl was
00:33:29
suddenly attacked and strangled into unconsciousness however she was never raped when she regained
00:33:37
Consciousness the suspect was gone It is believed that the suspect was scared off by the victim's friend or
00:33:45
someone else I've also seen reports that state he may have been scared off by a neighbor dog it's pretty scary to
00:33:52
imagine to know that there's this horrible people out there correct so one of these attacks takes place before
00:34:00
athenics attack and the other takes place afterward and in both situations police have
00:34:07
reason to believe that the attacker was scared off now in the September 27th attack an individual named Robert Chris
00:34:15
Winchester was convicted of the attempted kidnapping Robert Chris Winchester was sentenced to three to ten
00:34:23
years at Mansfield prison in order to undergo psychiatric evaluation let's go back to the May 7 1980 attack
00:34:34
that crime went unsolved but the victim of that crime picked out Robert Chris Winchester from a lineup related to the
00:34:42
September 27 1980 abduction case Winchester was never charged or prosecuted for that case however we must
00:34:51
note that the victim picks him out of a lineup so we have this Robert Chris Winchester who is convicted of a very
00:35:04
similar crime that takes place just months after a Cena's murder and also the number one
00:35:11
prime suspect in a crime that took place in a very similar crime that took place
00:35:16
in a similar location just one month before acinos attacked maybe we could get stuttner to
00:35:26
take a syringe to this guy's testicles as well so here's what the problem ends up being Captain you hear the old
00:35:32
statement from the old football coaches that say when you have two quarterbacks you have zero quarterbacks right well
00:35:38
this is a similar situation but the flip side of that where in June we have one suspect that they like a lot this Brett
00:35:46
stuttner well now in September of 1980 we have another suspect that they like a lot
00:35:53
this Robert Chris Winchester and oh as it turns out he too owns a red bicycle he too matches the description
00:36:02
of a man or men in their 20s early 20s seen in the area of the acina ducat crime scene on June 3rd 1980. so now we
00:36:14
have two really good suspects the thing here is that doesn't mean that they cancel each other out or that one should
00:36:20
cancel out the other because what is later learned is that these two went to school together they grew up together
00:36:28
they lived on the same street they were neighbors it's not out of bounds to make
00:36:33
the assumption that these two were friends we know that they knew each other is there a chance
00:36:39
that the two of them were up to no good together on the day that esseneth was abducted
00:36:45
they both matched the description they both have a criminal history Winchester's crimes almost mere
00:36:53
the ducat abduction and they both were believed to possibly be in the area so one of these suspects is deranged the
00:37:02
other suspect is a pedophile it's very possible because these two individuals live close together that
00:37:10
they would hang out together at some point not only that we have Winchester who's convicted of a very similar crime
00:37:16
and prime suspect in another crime that almost mirrors a cenus abduction now we have stuttner who is blabbing to
00:37:25
everybody that he idlis believes that he is guilty of something he's telling everybody that the police
00:37:32
are after him he says when he's in lock-up that he killed an eight-year-old girl
00:37:37
so I'm starting to see something that maybe the police didn't fully see I think that they did eventually but maybe
00:37:46
not in 1980 I think some of the confusion and some of the problems with this case and with this
00:37:53
investigation is that it just wasn't so simple it wasn't as simple as man abducts girl kills girl flees the area
00:38:02
I think that we have a situation where we may have more than one individual involved and because they won't rat on
00:38:10
each other or because that they may even help each other in some form or fashion
00:38:15
on these uh on covering up this crime that it's not so easy to detect what exactly happened that day both of these
00:38:24
suspects are good suspects both live close to the crime scene both fit the profile in different ways and both not
00:38:33
Cooperative with police the other problem here too Captain is we have Brett who seems to have been in the
00:38:40
area based off of eyewitness accounts and he puts himself in the area at the time of the crime and then the flip of
00:38:48
that is we have Winchester who again not Cooperative but is coming up with potential Alibis for his
00:38:55
whereabouts that day and none of them check out so he's lying about his whereabouts on
00:39:03
that day well why would he do that clearly he's got something to cover up one of the things that you were talking
00:39:09
about earlier is the eyewitnesses seeing the red bike so then please have this one suspect and then go well he has a
00:39:15
red bike and then this other suspect he has a red bike well at some point in my life when I was a child I had probably
00:39:22
two bikes one was probably an older bike that maybe I outgrew and then the kind of mountain bike or something like that
00:39:28
but red isn't a uncommon color for a bicycle so I'll start to try to paint a picture of what I think possibly
00:39:37
happened on that afternoon within that four hour time window that we started off with on yesterday's episode I want
00:39:45
to be clear here I'm not the first to come up with a theory that is similar to this there
00:39:51
have been a lot of good people that have done gangbusters work on this case most
00:39:55
of them the people from The Long Walk Home website this is a theory my theory is similar to
00:40:03
theirs into other theories that have been recently suggested and when you look at the crime scenes
00:40:10
along with the physical evidence that we have you will see that this Theory carries
00:40:18
some weight first off let's go back to ceny's route that she was taking home when she got onto Waltham
00:40:28
Road she would have simply made a right to travel North up Malvern and go directly to her home however when the
00:40:36
scent dog tried to retrace sini's footsteps the dog went South instead of turning right onto Malvern
00:40:46
made a left and went South of Waltham now even more south of that later some of sini's papers from school and her
00:40:57
umbrella were fought were found in this general area this is a concealed area a wooded area a forest area forested
00:41:06
area I believe that they found her belongings there because instead of making a right
00:41:13
onto Malvern something made her change her Direction and I believe that's when they tried to
00:41:20
grab her somebody tried to grab her started to approach her she didn't like the situation and she turned and she
00:41:27
started to head south away from her home simply to get away from whoever this was
00:41:32
she's out by herself I think that at some point she gets chased down and where she is apprehended
00:41:40
by these individuals is where we find some of her belongings later I think that we probably are dealing with more
00:41:47
than one abductor and I don't think that our abductor had a vehicle he may have had a bicycle
00:41:56
his partner in crime may have had a bicycle as well one could have been on foot it's hard to say but we have several
00:42:07
witnesses that see a red bicycle near this crime scene now the reason why I don't think that
00:42:13
the abductor had a vehicle is because if they did they simply would have taken her put her in the vehicle and drove to
00:42:20
a location that would provide whatever privacy that they wanted for whatever they intended to do that would make
00:42:28
sense if we would find her body later at a location far from her neighborhood yeah I agree but what we do know takes
00:42:36
place is that within that four hour window at the end of it her body is found in her neighborhood
00:42:43
and actually just about 100 feet maybe a football field away from where I believe she was abducted
00:42:52
well why would anybody Place her there we know that she was killed at that location where she was found based off
00:42:59
of all of the police reports and the police findings but what I think happened here Captain
00:43:06
there were always rumors there were always stories there were always theories that maybe she was attacked in that
00:43:15
forested area in that wooded area maybe she was attacked on the other side of 33 of Riverside Drive
00:43:26
the problem with that with those theories is that if she was attacked in those areas and assaulted in those areas
00:43:32
the individual who decided to kill her would have just killed her and simply left her there there would be no need to
00:43:41
transport the victim anywhere it's only adding to the risk level of the criminal's behavior yeah I agree
00:43:49
because once you go to move that victim more eyewitnesses could see you but what
00:43:55
we do have is witnesses that say that we see or may have seen a male white carrying an unconscious girl or an
00:44:04
injured girl or an injured little kid I think what we have here is a situation where she was
00:44:12
attacked she was attacked and grabbed and transported to a secluded area but that secluded area was either a home or
00:44:21
someone's backyard and I believe that it was probably a home very close to where
00:44:26
she was abducted from the reason why somebody would then transport her body later is because she is attacked in an
00:44:36
area assaulted in an area where they needed to get her out of there we've talked about on this show so many times
00:44:42
what a big problem it is for the criminal to have an abducted victim alive or otherwise in
00:44:49
their vehicle that's a big problem for the criminal it's also a big problem to have an individual abducted alive or
00:44:57
otherwise in their home or in their backyard and so when the search started going
00:45:03
down for cine and people started looking for her somebody or somebody's knew I have to get
00:45:10
this out of here and get this away from my property or from this area that I took her to or the property that I took
00:45:20
her to why because all roads lead back to me or my helper and I think unfortunately what happened here Captain
00:45:29
is I don't think that the police were wrong it's so obvious that unfortunately she was
00:45:36
killed where she was found I agree but we've also covered this plenty of times on this show
00:45:42
and we've reviewed the comments and the statements of victims who survive an attempted murder as well as murderers
00:45:52
who say you know what it's more difficult to strangle someone to death than you realize
00:45:58
or I have attempted to strangle somebody and then eventually they came too I think wherever she was assaulted
00:46:08
someone strangled her and believed that they had successfully killed her she was then moved away from that
00:46:16
person's property or their friend's property with the attempt to conceal her body by
00:46:23
removing it from that location to try to put her place her inside that Culvert to
00:46:29
conceal the body when she was placed on the Rocks before they could move her in there
00:46:36
she wakes up she comes too they weren't successful strangling her and it was in that moment that one
00:46:44
individual picked up that rock and unfortunately they killed this little girl yeah animals the crime scene
00:46:51
suggests a couple of things one we would learn that there is scientific physical evidence that proves
00:47:03
that straightener was involved that he had contact with the victim on the day that she was killed
00:47:12
that places him with the victim that places him at the crime scene now there were footprints that were found in this
00:47:19
area these footprints do not eliminate our other suspect Winchester from being at the crime scene
00:47:32
at the murder scene however that would probably leave us with a potential third or fourth
00:47:40
perpetrator if these two guys did this together they had to take her somewhere nearby and they had to take her
00:47:47
somewhere that they would want to not leave her there and therefore the most sensible reasonable answer the most
00:47:57
logical answer would be that they took her to someone's home to someone's property
00:48:03
nearby and probably rather close to where she was ultimately found just before 7 30 PM
00:48:10
so your thought is that it's at least these two individuals maybe possibly one more individual involved
00:48:17
in this crime with the way that the movements of the victim and her belongings where
00:48:25
they're found and then some of the physical evidence that we know to be true in this case yes that's what I see
00:48:31
here as being the most likely scenario to play out again I think where the problem was is that
00:48:39
we have a crime scene that the police just did not understand they didn't understand that we might be looking for
00:48:45
two perpetrators or more we didn't understand that she may have been moved to a other to another location they
00:48:52
understood that that's their own words so we believe that she was moved elsewhere right but again why would you
00:48:59
move to a vehicle if you move to a vehicle You're simply going to be parked on the side of the road somewhere in
00:49:03
this neighborhood I feel like that's awfully difficult to happen and I also feel like the best suspects per the
00:49:11
newspaper reports of 1980 and even after that both of these guys are on bicycles
00:49:19
and so didn't have the means to be using a vehicle we also have statements from other Witnesses later that would come
00:49:26
forward saying things like what one of the suspects that we named his bike was seen in a garage
00:49:37
in a home that was within walking distance of where the body was found yeah when you look at
00:49:44
it on the map you're like wow that's extremely close there are witnesses that came forward that said that one of these
00:49:52
suspects if not both of them were hanging out with somebody that lived very close to where the body was found
00:49:59
so when you compile all of this information and you look at the totality of it all put together it starts to you
00:50:07
start to see a picture and you start to see how this thing could have played out
00:50:11
and it's a rather simple answer and again I'm not the first one to come up with this and I know that my theory is
00:50:18
not exactly spot on with some others that have been released but that's why you'll want to review some more
00:50:24
information at the Long Walk Home ua.com and form your own opinion take a look at the maps take a look at the
00:50:32
physical evidence or just listen and believe everything we say that works too with all this time with all this
00:50:39
evidence with all these I would Witnesses with all this demand for answers why don't we have somebody locked up and
00:50:51
held responsible for these crimes this case gets complicated and I know that there are people out there that say Hey
00:50:57
the cops really screwed this one up that was even the title of a newspaper article that said experts say police
00:51:05
bungled this case and maybe they did maybe they did I can only tell you what I have seen what I see is a rather
00:51:13
complicated case where there were several people involved that it would be difficult to
00:51:19
it would be difficult to figure out that there were multiple people involved it's
00:51:23
kind it reminds me a lot of the Martha Moxley case where you had all of these years go by
00:51:30
decades go by this girl's killed in her own neighborhood there were multiple people that were suspected and in the
00:51:37
end when you really put the pieces together it's a much simpler case than you would think right
00:51:45
when you look at sini's case I feel like it's the same thing once you know all of
00:51:50
the pieces and the moving Parts it's actually a much more simple case than it would appear on June 3rd 1980 and June
00:51:59
4th 1980 and June 5th 1980 there are going to be things that the officers that the detective saw at this location
00:52:07
at the crime scene that just didn't make sense and it made it hard for them to put
00:52:12
together the complete story why didn't they make sense well because there were more people involved than
00:52:18
they thought and once you put it together now it seems like it's it's pretty clear
00:52:24
but let's add to the fact some other complexities that take place in this case you have one of the main suspects
00:52:34
Brett stuttner who committed suicide four years after the ducot murder and yes he was in and out of jail for
00:52:45
some time he continued to have problems But ultimately he jumps out of a window I believe it was the sixth floor at the
00:52:54
YMCA building downtown Columbus not high enough in 1984 they find the door to his room
00:53:03
locked the window wide open and his body outside on the ground they don't find anything of importance
00:53:13
to this case you know when when they're responding to this when law enforcement are responding to this call you know
00:53:20
they're hoping that he wrote out a written confession before he jumped out the window right or find evidence of the
00:53:28
victim or that crime or other crimes in his room that didn't happen well then the problem then becomes that
00:53:36
one of your Prime suspects is now gone he wasn't cooperating before but now you're going to get zero cooperation out
00:53:45
of this individual well no more ball stats Winchester ended up serving Time For That September 1980 attack
00:53:53
and he did over a year I believe about two years or so on that attack obviously he's not
00:54:02
cooperated as well and there may be another individual or two out there that played a role in this and we just
00:54:10
don't have all the facts from them either it's really truly a sad case for the neighborhood for the ducat
00:54:18
family there has been no justice in this case and I wouldn't go so far to blame police
00:54:27
had a monster not taking this girl's life or Monsters we would never have this discussion to
00:54:36
begin with I think that there were some people that worked very hard on this case and cared a lot about atheneth and
00:54:43
her family and tried and did everything they possibly could I don't see a situation where the police put on
00:54:50
blinders they called in the FBI they sent physical evidence to the FBI they asked for people with better resources
00:54:59
for their help and unfortunately I think it's just one of those cases that I I'm not very confident that this
00:55:09
thing gets solved or solved the right way anytime there's a crime where we think there's multiple people involved
00:55:16
it's more likely that somebody's going to talk and we're going to hear rumors Rumblings but in this case we have one
00:55:24
of the suspects he's dead one of the suspects is incarcerated if there's another individual then
00:55:32
what happened to them but I think because of those reasons it's probably why we haven't heard more rumors about
00:55:40
these people being connected as you heard in these episodes the ducats the family are wonderful people they're some
00:55:47
of the kindest bravest people that I have seen especially based off of Alexander ducat's statements in the
00:55:55
months after his little daughter was killed there's been no justice for the ducats
00:56:00
there's been no justice for the people of this neighborhood and it's something that I hope changes and we can only hope
00:56:08
and pray that something happens that there is a break in this case to lead to some form of Justice I know that I along
00:56:16
with many other people think of a Zenith this time of year every year as we're letting out school getting ready for the
00:56:25
summer break we think about her we think about her case and we think about the things that
00:56:30
could have been done differently in this investigation we also think about the suspects and people that are capable of
00:56:37
this type of horrific crime scene is not to be forgotten the ducats are not to be forgotten this crime is
00:56:44
not to be forgotten this is something that I hope stays with everybody until this thing can be solved and one day
00:56:54
somebody can be locked up and put away for what they did a long time ago foreign
00:57:02
[Music] thank you guys so much for the support in keeping the lights on I love you like
00:57:19
I love Hank mardukas Colonel do we have any recommended reading we do Captain this week we are recommending that
00:57:26
everybody go to the Long Walk Home ua.com website it's a website dedicated to the case that we covered this week
00:57:35
and show your support read what they have there they have more than we could cover on this case this week and also
00:57:42
support the aceneth ducat project and you can find that information at Long Walk Home ua.com and we will have that
00:57:51
listed on our recommended page at truecrime garage.com and until next week be good be kind and don't litter
00:57:59
[Music] [Applause] thank you foreign