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[Music] [Applause] % [Music] [Applause] welcome to True Crime garage wherever you are whatever you are doing thanks
00:01:46
for listening I'm your host Nick and with me as always is a guy that likes going to the movies almost as much as
00:01:52
PeeWee Herman he is the captain well I know you are but what am I thanks for listening it's good to be seen
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well again again it's uh I guess it's not good to be seen with my pants down thanks for listening thanks for the five
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that shirt causing it to go down in value of course anyway that's enough of the business Captain everybody gather
00:04:52
around grab a chair a beer grab a beer and talk some true crime [Music] [Music] on the evening of May 16th 2005 in the
00:05:13
town of Cordy Lane Idaho the sheriff's department they find the lifeless bodies of three people inside of the groan
00:05:22
McKenzie household they find both of the adults as well as a teenage boy his name
00:05:28
is SL BL groy now we have two missing children here 9-year-old Dylan and 8-year-old Shasta it takes about 7 weeks
00:05:39
but Shasta is located in a Denny's restaurant with a strange man in the middle of the morning now this would be
00:05:47
July 2nd on Sunday July 3rd the man that was with Shasta was identified as Joseph
00:05:56
Duncan III yeah so who is Joseph Duncan Joseph Duncan is 42 years old he's a white uh male he's a registered sex
00:06:04
offender and he's from Fargo I believe yeah Fargo North Dakota now they are holding him because they want to charge
00:06:11
him with two counts of kidnapping uh charges that in in that state if you're convicted um they come with possible
00:06:19
sentences of life in prison or possibly the death penalty now it's time for detectives to question young Shasta and
00:06:28
they need a lot of information from from this little girl you know where had the
00:06:33
man taken her where was she for for 6 seven weeks what happened that night at the grony McKenzie home and of course
00:06:41
where is shasta's brother Dylan that's the first question you should be asking well and of course we have this
00:06:47
situation here Captain where Joseph Duncan he does not appear that he's willing to talk with the sheriff's
00:06:53
department so as we said they're going to have to learn this information from Shasta and some of what Shasta knew and
00:07:01
understood about the crimes Shasta actually learned from Duncan himself okay Duncan told her several times about
00:07:10
details of the murders of shasta's family and he was and and furthermore what he was doing to Dylan while they
00:07:18
were out on the Run let's say uh Duncan told Shasta that that he was turned on when he had spotted her and Dylan in the
00:07:28
front yard he was driving around uh we can assume probably looking for a victim or looking to victimize somebody he
00:07:36
states that he sees the two of them in the front yard he's turned on by the young girl she's wearing a bathing suit
00:07:43
at the time when when he sees them it is this is when he decides that he was going to take the little boy and take
00:07:51
the little girl okay now Duncan told her that he had watched the house and the family for a couple of days he's not
00:08:00
specific on how many days these were um but he says that he would he would creep
00:08:06
up to the windows at night when the lights were out and he see he had night vision goggles that he brought with him
00:08:15
on this trip and he would creep up to the windows when the lights are out when the family is sleeping and he was
00:08:21
looking in the window so he could get an accurate layout of the inside of the home because he was planning his attack
00:08:29
right and he was waiting for the right time to strike well on the night of the murders
00:08:35
um there's a couple of different reports here and I think maybe the confusion is
00:08:40
where was Dylan where was Shasta but but the way that The Story Goes is this is that at some point on the night of the
00:08:48
murders um shasta's mother Brenda she came into her room and asked her to come out into the living room Shasta was
00:08:56
asleep at this point and then she calls out to Dylan and Dylan then joins them in the living room as well now Shasta
00:09:05
says that when she got there um that this is the first time she sees this strange man she's never seen him before
00:09:14
and he's in the living room with her family members at this point um Mark McKenzie is already bound and he's on
00:09:21
the ground and then we also have Slade who is bound just with the hands uh but he's on the floor as well
00:09:29
then it's at this point that the strange man he ties up shasta's mother Brenda MH
00:09:35
the man she says is wearing dark clothing and he's wearing dark gloves black gloves so after Duncan has the two
00:09:44
adults and the one teenager bound he's going to then take the eight and nine-year-old bound them up and then
00:09:52
bring them out to a pickup truck that he has parked in their I'm I'm guessing their driveway yeah he has it he has it
00:09:59
parked somewhere on the property he puts them in the pickup truck and then he goes back inside now Shasta says that
00:10:06
the kids uh in the pickup truck they heard several screams coming from the house um After Duncan had returned but
00:10:14
eventually the night went silent eventually they hear hear nothing else coming from the inside right uh she does
00:10:21
say that at one point um that Dylan and Shasta that she saw her older brother Slade walk outside and
00:10:31
then he walked back inside again um when Shasta reported this to authorities she
00:10:38
said that her brother Slade was already extremely bloody at this point when he walked outside and then returned and in
00:10:47
her words uh he was probably brain dead at this point wow uh then they see Joseph Duncan come out of the house and
00:10:57
he drove the pickup truck over to the neighbor's property and then took the kids from the pickup truck and he placed
00:11:03
them into a red Jeep Cherokee and they drove off now later Joseph Duncan told both Dylan and Shasta that on the night
00:11:13
of the murders he had parked the Cherokee on Robert Hollingsworth property after dark and he walked over
00:11:22
to the uh McKenzie groy property Duncan had brought several items with him including the duct tape the zip ties he
00:11:31
also brought a flashlight and a rifle and a claw hammer once on the property he was actually confronted by the
00:11:39
family's dogs outside he had aimed the gun at both of them and they they were disturbed by this and they ran off uh
00:11:47
and then he discovered that the side door to the house was unlocked he let himself in and then made his way uh to
00:11:57
to look for the adult man in the house um apparently after he had the victims tied up is when he got the keys for that
00:12:08
pickup truck he got the keys for the pickup truck from Mark McKenzie himself after he had tied him up right so after
00:12:15
they're in the red Jeep Cherokee where do where does he take um where does he take the two kids well
00:12:22
apparently Joseph Duncan had shown Shasta on a map where he took the two children and so just days after Shasta
00:12:31
is found she's able to show authorities that her and her brother Dylan they were
00:12:36
held at two different C camping areas uh one of the two uh this is an area in north in the Northwest part of Montana
00:12:46
only about a 2-hour Drive East from the grony McKenzie home where the two children were taken from now law
00:12:53
enforcement searched this area this is a remote area near St reges Montana mhm and on July 10th 2005 they announced
00:13:04
that they had located and recovered the remains of Dylan grony there were many many rumors
00:13:11
regarding the boy's death and what Shasta and Dylan had experienced while being held captive all of the newspapers
00:13:19
news outlets and magazine TV shows were discussing these rumors um and well like
00:13:25
we said though before I mean Joseph Duncan is a registered sex offend now we know what the motive was and we
00:13:31
know that he had these two children in a remote location M so we know what his motive is yes we know he took them for
00:13:39
sexual purposes uh he he molested them and he did things to both of them for several weeks um like I said what what
00:13:48
we do know is that Dylan died from a gunshot um it was a gunshot to the Head uh like I said there were many rumors
00:13:56
regarding his death and what Shasta witnessed or was forced to participate in uh I don't really want to go through
00:14:03
all of the rumors uh I mean there's a lot of them and they're pretty pretty Grim um but but there are two that I
00:14:11
will go through because I find these to be likely scenarios um one rumor was that Dylan
00:14:17
was dismembered after his death and this this could be this this could be likely
00:14:24
um they they identified the remains uh and they they the method to do that was using DNA testing and it possible that
00:14:34
that wasn't their preferred method but that it was a necess you know necessity right right because the way the remains
00:14:40
were founded the only way to identify them and it could have been one of the ways that Duncan was trying to cover his
00:14:46
tracks you're exactly right the the other the other and I apologize um uh but this is not as bad as some of the
00:14:55
other rumors that were being reported at the time uh but but one rumor was that the attacks on the boy were very similar
00:15:04
to to one of Duncan's earlier assaults for you know one of the reasons why he was a registered sex offender uh it was
00:15:13
similar to one of the crimes that he had committed in his past okay so what's the
00:15:18
you know what's the loose background on uh this Joseph E Duncan okay so while he
00:15:24
is you know like we said they're they're wanting to press charges for kidnapping
00:15:28
on him now we found the body of Dylan one thing that I like that that the FBI and the sheriff's department did in this
00:15:36
investigation and did in this case even once they had apprehended Joseph Duncan they weren't quick to rush to anything
00:15:44
they they understood that you know what we' recovered all the victims we've recovered one of them thankfully alive
00:15:51
we have a Survivor and now we have the guy that we believe 100% committed this crime completely by himself
00:15:59
they had to they wanted to do their due diligence and rule out that Joseph Duncan had no connection to the family
00:16:07
um and so they they're sitting on everything they need I think that they did it did it the right way to take it
00:16:14
one step at a time now during this time they want to learn everything they can about Joseph Duncan III right and we
00:16:21
already know because of these acts that he's a flaming pile of horseshit so his past captain and his his previous crimes
00:16:29
uh Duncan was born in' 63 it sounds like his family moved around from time to time because of his father's career in
00:16:37
the military uh however most reports show that Joseph he was he was mostly raised in Tacoma
00:16:44
Washington uh there's some conflicting reports regarding the Family itself uh he was one of five children and one of
00:16:53
his brothers states that they had a very normal childhood there was no abuse in the in the house household growing up
00:16:59
where he has a sister that that says the complete opposite that there was that was a very abusive uh setting and that
00:17:07
there was all kinds of problems going on uh physical emotional mental it sounds sexual it sounds like um mostly physical
00:17:16
and emotional type abuse is what she describes uh but again she describes a completely different picture than what
00:17:23
was painted by the brother so who who knows what was going on um but but in in 1978 uh at this point Joseph would be at
00:17:33
the age of 15 MH um he molested a 9-year-old boy at gunpoint um and and I don't think he was ever caught for this
00:17:43
uh I I think he actually reported this incident to a psychiatrist later in life uh the following year Joseph stole a car
00:17:52
and he led police on a car chase and he was caught when he attempted to bust through a police barricade uh for this
00:17:59
crime he gets sent to a juvenile detention center it is here that he confided in therapist that he had raped
00:18:08
and molested some boys and he he estimated that he had sexually assaulted 13 boys that were younger than him by
00:18:16
the time he was 16 in 1980 they're going to charge him with these no he says this
00:18:22
to a therapist uh when he's serving time in in the Detention Center well one of the things that we've talked about and
00:18:29
and I'll post it on Instagram to me it's one of the creepiest photos of of this whole case is you know uh Joseph V
00:18:37
Duncan I mean he looks little and then right in front of him you know black and white sex offender so he gets charged as
00:18:46
a sex offender at some point right right and this is this takes place from an incident in 1980 this is after having
00:18:53
been released from juvie so now Joseph decides to break into a home uh this is a home in his neighborhood uh he says
00:19:03
that there's an old man there that he knew he had several guns and ammunition he wanted to break into the home and
00:19:09
steal the guns so he does so um and it's similar to it's a little bit similar to
00:19:15
The Murders that he would go on to commit later in life where he would he would go up and he would peak in the
00:19:20
window of this home and he waited for his his moment to strike uh he said that he basically hid in the shadows and
00:19:28
broke into the home where he believed nobody could see him he steals the gun he steals some ammo um and after this he
00:19:36
decides that you know he's kind of riding out this high from from breaking into this home he decides he wants to
00:19:44
have some kind of sex right so he he sees a 14-year-old boy uh who is walking to school
00:19:53
Alone um he using the gun he abducts the boy and he takes him into the woods and
00:19:59
he assaults him after the assault uh Joseph Duncan beat the boy with sticks that he found in the area and he burned
00:20:09
him with a cigarette um the the kid would live yes yes he he ends up letting the boy go um
00:20:17
he he tells after he's done doing whatever he did uh he tells him to run away and not to tell anybody you know he
00:20:24
threatens him don't tell anybody well not too long after dun yeah [ __ ] I'm not going to tell anybody well yeah
00:20:32
Joseph Duncan goes home and not too long after the attack he's actually picked up
00:20:36
by police for that crime he's charged and convicted for that crime good good for the the victim yes and and they
00:20:45
sentenced Joseph Duncan to 20 years in prison well uh he was released 14 years later um with several stipulations one
00:20:55
that he live in a halfway house uh and he was on Parole and he was to have no contact with
00:21:03
miners uh he would continue to be in and out of jail and halfway houses for some
00:21:08
time I don't want to bog down the show and go through every little charge violation or jail stint well it wouldn't
00:21:15
be the first time you bogged down the show but Joseph Duncan basically was in prison from 1980 until 1994 I also do
00:21:23
want to point out that he was not labeled he was labeled as a sex offender but not labeled as a a file because uh
00:21:30
he was young at the time as well and and both he and the victim uh were less than
00:21:35
5 years apart in age so there that's the the cause of that um and then because of
00:21:42
a parole violation he is in prison back in 1997 until the year 2000 after his release in 2000 he moved to Fargo North
00:21:53
Dakota where he enrolled in college uh per his per his parole requirements he had registered as a sex offender when
00:22:01
arriving in North Dakota they have Duncan listed as a level three sex offender now what does that mean okay
00:22:09
I'm really confused because you said he didn't have to be because the victim was
00:22:14
the same age no he's a sex offender but but according to prison psychiatrist he's not listed as a pedophile he's a
00:22:21
sex offender but not a pedophile because they were within 5 years of ofe I should
00:22:26
have been paying it a little bit better attention wake up I'm sorry I'm I'm here
00:22:31
I'm here okay so so they have they have him listed as a level three sex offender
00:22:38
what does that mean Joseph Duncan became a level three sex offender because his crime included the following a
00:22:45
non-parental kidnapping of a minor and a sexual act committed with the threat of
00:22:50
bodily harm or death so level three or tier three as more properly called by the sex offender registry is the highest
00:23:00
meaning the worst level of sex offender there is okay okay so if if prison time is required for the offense the
00:23:09
following must be adhered to upon release if you are a tier one offender you are required to register as a sex
00:23:17
offender for 15 years if you are two t if you're a tier 2 offender M you register for 25 years and a tier three
00:23:26
sex offender is required to register as a sex sex offender for life okay right here I wanted to go through some of the
00:23:36
recidivism rates here that the rate that someone previously convicted of a crime
00:23:41
later after a released often offends again okay we you know here's the thing the repeat offender right right and I
00:23:50
wanted what's the percentage well I wanted to go through these rates and I I got to looking into it and then I
00:23:56
decided that that we won't do that and I'll tell you why well thanks for bringing it up no but I'll tell you why
00:24:02
okay there have been some very good studies conducted over the years but as we review them we will just we will just
00:24:10
have a bunch of garage army people going huh what are you talking about right uh
00:24:16
and and so look like they're currently doing huh what's Nick doing what's Nick talking about look I I looked at I
00:24:23
looked at the reports for a while and I know that the listeners are smarter than
00:24:27
me thank God I had to read the studies three times and then I decided it's too boring so anyway the tier three sex
00:24:35
offenders have the highest rate of recidivism all right so your point is that if you're tier three you're more
00:24:40
likely to repeat the crime MH and we should keep in mind as well that sex crimes are largely unreported so even if
00:24:49
we had the numbers in front of us I would strongly argue that the rates are unfair and much lower than what in
00:24:56
reality they actually are yeah very true and the thing here Captain is that what
00:25:01
what me and you in the True Crime garage Army care about is the concern for the return to criminal behavior and we all
00:25:09
know that criminal Behavior doesn't always lead to arrest or convictions but it certainly leads to victims doesn't it
00:25:17
and that's that's who all of us in the garage here are here to stand up for so the thing here is after about 4 years of
00:25:27
Duncan being out we have a complaint against Joseph Duncan well okay so but he moves and he
00:25:33
registers for college yep and he's also registered a sex offender yep but he's in college now correct and he's studying
00:25:41
do we know what he's studying he was studying computers um and he and he was actually considered a a pretty good
00:25:47
student uh having made the dean list a couple of times um you know as much as as much as you and I dislike Joseph
00:25:55
Duncan he he can be an intelligent person uh as far as as school goes and as far as books go um clearly not
00:26:05
intelligent enough to try to correct himself and correct his ways after he's been given obviously several chances to
00:26:12
do so so after after being out for about four years uh we get this complaint against him and the complaint goes like
00:26:20
this that on July 3rd 2004 there were two boys playing in a middle school playground uh this is in Detroit Lakes
00:26:28
Community in Minnesota the boys ages are 6 and 8 years old uh they see a small red car with a mail dri driver pull into
00:26:39
the parking lot the man gets out and apparently he has some kind of video camera with him he walks to a secluded
00:26:47
area of the playground and he calls the two boys over uh once they're there the man pulled down the pants of one of the
00:26:55
boys and he fondled him and then he tried to do the same with the other boy but thankfully was unsuccessful um he he
00:27:04
there's a brief struggle with this boy and then both of the boys run off mhm uh and of course at this point the man gets
00:27:10
in his car this is Duncan and he drives off well the boys are able to provide a very good description of the man as well
00:27:19
as the car that they saw that day right so the Detroit Lakes Police using this information and using the description
00:27:28
they start checking the sex offenders database and they find Joseph Duncan who matched not only the the description the
00:27:37
physical description given by the boys but uh he had a small red car as well his car match the description as well
00:27:44
right right so the kids were shown a photo lineup well it this is an example of the system working you're thank you
00:27:52
Captain thank you the they're shown a photo lineup and they both success sucessfully pick Duncan from this lineup
00:28:00
M and because they have all of his information in the database they're able to go and pick up Joseph Duncan for this
00:28:07
crime speak to him for it arrest him for it and eventually charge him with this crime now we will also point out a
00:28:16
situation where maybe the system did not work we'll talk about that right after this quick beer
00:28:21
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[Music] [Music] that all right welcome back to True Crime gidge all right Captain we had talked
00:30:26
about the system working let's talk about where we start to run into problems here the first problem presents
00:30:33
itself you know we said that he is going to be arrested in charge for this crime
00:30:38
the problem here Captain we have a situation where we have a report the report of this crime
00:30:45
was misfiled or lost somewhere for whatever reason Duncan's not going to face any justice here regarding this
00:30:53
charge until about 9 months later so we haven't we have an extreme delay in the process right and to further that you
00:31:02
know this crime ha happened in Minnesota he's a registered sex offender in North
00:31:08
Dakota but I don't think that that is any excuse here that the court didn't know who they were dealing with right
00:31:15
this should be easy in my opinion you know we have a level three sex offender who according to these charges may have
00:31:22
reoffended and tried to do so against not one but two children I believe uh that Joseph Duncan had a
00:31:31
either a public defender here or maybe he had a license you know a private attorney at this point because he did
00:31:38
have Captain he had he actually had two well-to-do friends um one was a physician and the other I believe he had
00:31:46
been in real estate but regardless both had made a good living during their careers and why are they friends with
00:31:53
this scumbag well let's get into that a little bit one of the these friends okay
00:31:58
ends up giving Joseph Duncan $115,000 and he says that this is to Aid in his defense or if there was to be a
00:32:08
bail well it would probably help for both MH but so his attorney when he's facing these charges his attorney asks
00:32:17
that the bail be reduced that you know typically in a situation like this we would see a a
00:32:24
bail that would be set at like 25,00 000 or more for a crime of this nature with
00:32:30
a possible reoffender so the attorney for Joseph Duncan tells the judge that Duncan this
00:32:37
is in April right April of 2005 so Duncan is due to graduate from college in May the attorney asks that the bail
00:32:46
be set at a reasonable rate so that Duncan can get out of jail and he can attend he can attend to his Affairs and
00:32:54
complete his graduation process that's not how the World works right but the judge ends up agreeing to this and he
00:33:02
sets the bail at $155,000 right how much money did they put in his pocket that's what I want to know I
00:33:10
don't know about that but remember we said that Joseph dunin got that $155,000 that money from his friend so
00:33:17
picture this we have a level three sex offender the bail is reduced to 15 grand and the defendant says no problem pulls
00:33:27
out his checkbook and he writes a personal check for $155,000 hands it to the bayith and boom
00:33:33
he's released into the public right just walking around Whistling Dixie by the way I heard that that check bounced you
00:33:42
know for that can't can't they C can we gotcha yeah can we at least hold someone
00:33:49
until the check clears for star yeah that should be a that should that should easily be a rule yeah so so back to what
00:33:56
the Captain was saying and I'm sure everybody else is is is scratching their heads I'm sorry but I can just hey no
00:34:02
problem no problem let me just write you a check for that all right free I go it
00:34:08
it almost and I hate to to to joke around of over something so serious but it almost it's as stupid to me as that
00:34:17
part and Dumb and Dumber where he opens up the Briefcase full of IUS yeah you know and he picks up one he's like
00:34:24
$9,000 he's like yeah you might want to hold on to that one yeah so anyway cash like the yeah like
00:34:30
the captain said and like I'm sure all of you out there scratching your heads by now going how does this Joseph Duncan
00:34:36
guy have any friends at all especially one that would give him a loan or whatever you want to call it for 15
00:34:44
grand well I'm going to go into this but I want to be clear that that a lot of this here is my is just my opinion uh
00:34:53
but I believe there's plenty of evidence of this to back some of this up I know so Joseph Duncan at different times in
00:35:00
his life he held many different sexualities you know at some points in his life he was straight he was gay he
00:35:06
was a crossdresser uh I actually very ugly crossdresser yeah not not very good at
00:35:12
it I actually don't believe that that he went from feeling one way to another at
00:35:19
different points in his life I believe as noted in Duncan's prison files from the time that he was a kid that he was
00:35:27
diagnosed as a sexual psychopath uh and I I do believe he was actually a pedophile um and and this
00:35:36
this is a person that is a pedophile who would abduct and kill to fulfill his urges I think that Joseph Duncan could
00:35:45
could have sex with anything really and that that he was that he was a cons he was a constant manipulator of situations
00:35:54
that he found himself in okay I think think if he saw a situation where he could benefit from being homosexual well
00:36:01
then he was happy to play the part I think that that's where these friends may have come into play heck one of
00:36:08
these guys just listen to this okay one of the guys said to the courts uhhuh that he thought that Duncan could be
00:36:16
rehabilitated with some counseling and that the courts should release Joseph Duncan to him to his care where Joseph
00:36:24
Duncan could come and live with him his wife and his two children might I add these children were just of the age
00:36:32
that Duncan would have liked this guy knew that Joseph Duncan was a sex offender he knew of his sex
00:36:38
offender status he knew of his criminal past and the crimes he was currently being charged with I tell you what if if
00:36:45
I'm married to someone and they say to me hey honey let's let this level three sex offender live with us and our kids
00:36:52
it will all work out well I'm going to say no but I'm also going going to say you know what is a good idea a vacation
00:36:59
now go take one by yourself because me and the kids are throwing your ass out so pack your son tan lotion mhm so
00:37:06
Joseph Duncan he he is out now he's written this this check for $15,000 rubber check mhm and he's out and he's
00:37:15
he's he knows he's going to have to face these charges eventually and I believe that that is what triggered him I
00:37:24
believe that that is the trigger that that brought on what he called the demons to take him over now we have to
00:37:32
point out here when the investigators were looking into his past when they were looking into Joseph Duncan's
00:37:38
background they learned he was going to school for computer and he figured and they figured out for computer well for I
00:37:45
I can't remember I'm I'm struggling here to remember the exact thing that he was
00:37:50
going but it was for thank thank you Captain I just see I can see for computer I could to see the kid going
00:38:00
going home you know he's visiting his parents for a uh for like fa you know it's Christmas time hey uh the
00:38:10
grandparents ask him hey what are you go hey Nick where are you going to school what are you going to college for just
00:38:16
say computer computer I'm going to school for computer I can't it all right well the Major's a little more specific
00:38:24
than that but it involves it involves him going into that line of work than for making my day so they they are
00:38:32
convinced that he's going to have some type of online presence and they track down some some uh resumés that he sent
00:38:40
into to different people looking for jobs right um they they ba they actually lock down his apartment you
00:38:48
know they contact Fargo North Dakota and they contact the landlord and they they
00:38:54
lock down his apartment so they can go through everything and it's at this point that they
00:38:58
discover this fifth nail blog that we talked about in the first episode well he's the creator of of this blog of this
00:39:06
website well and like you stated before he talked about offenses that he made prior to this mhm and so these would be
00:39:15
the offenses you know these this rubber check that he wrote These are the offenses that he's talking about on the
00:39:21
blog well and the thing here is Captain like I said he's going to have to face this these charges eventually he in his
00:39:28
mind he knows he's going back to prison and probably maybe even for good at this
00:39:33
point I don't know what the rules are on reoffending um but he's going to go away
00:39:38
for a long time he faced 20 years the first time and I think that this was the trigger that that that was the demons
00:39:45
that he talked about on his blog taking him over and because he was going back to prison he snapped and he thought you
00:39:51
know what I'm going to go out rather than go on the go to prison I'm going out I'm going on the run and I'm going
00:39:57
to kill and abduct until they catch me or kill me well and some of the True Crime Army might be they might go
00:40:05
against me on this thought but hear me out so with Killers or even sexual offenders they they a lot of the times
00:40:12
talk about the urge you know I get this urge to kill and we'll see it time and time again with different serial killers
00:40:19
where they try to fight the urges mhm and some serial killers they don't even try to fight it and some sexual Enders
00:40:26
they don't even try to fight the AR but there are some that do so it's it's possibly that's kind of what he's
00:40:33
talking about too is with these demons where it's like you know maybe at certain points of his existence he's
00:40:39
tried to fight these urges right which he's calling demons and uh now that he knows that you know there's really no
00:40:48
future for him why fight the demons mhm why not just let them take over yeah and
00:40:56
you know not only were they looking into his background Captain but you know the
00:41:01
his arrest when they found him with with Shasta and after they found the body of
00:41:07
Dylan and then they they connected him to this triple homicide they're starting to see this
00:41:14
guy is not just a level three sex offender no this guy is I mean one of the worst of the worst right he's a
00:41:20
seral killer he's a serial killer and he's capable of of monstrous things well that's going to lead the FBI to launch a
00:41:27
n a nationwide review of Unsolved missing children cases right um and they they wanted to see if he during the
00:41:37
times he was out you know what who went missing where did they go missing from they started looking at cases that were
00:41:44
everywhere as close to like 70 to 100 miles from where he was all the way to about 7 or 800 miles away from where he
00:41:53
was living at the time uh they belied that because they had seen in more than one situation by this point that he was
00:42:02
capable of going to other states to commit these crimes so he was actually implicated as a possible possible
00:42:10
suspect in several crimes that occurred between 1994 and 1997 this was when he was on Parole the first time before he
00:42:19
violated his parole and went back to prison now so so a three-year Gap yes and and who knows what happened then
00:42:29
right and at this time he would have been in the Seattle Tacoma Washington area he was he was living in that area
00:42:37
when he was free from prison during this threeyear stint um although he was cleared as a suspect in some of these
00:42:45
cases authorities in California and Washington they believed that they had enough evidence and believe that Duncan
00:42:52
had committed unsolved murders in their jurisdictions now the first one that I want to talk about is a Boy by the name
00:42:59
of Anthony Martinez okay okay so on April 4th 1997 10-year-old Anthony Martinez he was
00:43:08
playing with friends in his in the front yard of his home in bont California a man approached the group of kids asking
00:43:16
them if they would help him find his missing cat the boys did not want to help this man they they refused to help
00:43:23
him so the man instead grabs Martinez and he puts a knife to his neck and he he threw him into a white four-door
00:43:33
sedan into the back of his car well on April 19th this is just 15 days later 1997 after searching for the boy for two
00:43:44
weeks his body was found nuded and partially decomposed in a California desert Ravine and covered in rocks uh
00:43:53
the investigator said that he had been sexually assaulted Ed and bound with duct tape now this is one reason why
00:43:59
they're looking at him furthermore they're looking at Joseph Duncan because a composite sketch was made of the
00:44:07
suspect at the time of the crime now I think this was the one with the army hat Maybe army hat and the mustache well
00:44:17
when this crime was committed they had no leads and and eventually this case goes cold until after Joseph Duncan's
00:44:24
arrest in 2005 well the thing here is once they announced that he has an online presence
00:44:31
and that he had this blog well of course web Luthers and everybody else that has
00:44:37
a computer that's interested in True Crime they're looking at they're following the story on CNN and Fox News
00:44:43
and now they're following it on their computers as well well several people noticed that there's quite a bit of
00:44:49
similarity between Joseph Duncan and the composite sketch in the Martinez case case so the FBI and now again with the
00:45:00
help of the national Center for missing and exploited children they they get involved in this case and they start
00:45:05
working with the Riverside County authorities who are still active in the investigation now that blog was since
00:45:15
you know they took down the blog um yeah well what you want to go into that just
00:45:20
real quickly we'll go back to Martinez yeah yeah just cuz cuz at some point they take it down
00:45:26
yes it's I've read several newspaper articles and magazine articles online articles everyone I've come across says
00:45:34
that the website has been taken down however I don't know if this remember I said earlier the guy went to school for
00:45:41
computer well that's about my understanding of everything as well so he went to school for computer I found I
00:45:49
found this website and I don't know if it's an archive or if it's somebody retelling the I don't fully understand
00:45:56
what it is but you can find it out there you really if I found it that means you
00:46:00
don't have to look extremely hard from from what I was reading it made it seem like they was taken down at some point
00:46:06
then they put it back up mhm then when they took it down again somebody had saved all the information and so then
00:46:13
they relaunched it because it was really about them not wanting uh him to have any control over
00:46:19
it or access to it or or something like that because I think that they do get some
00:46:26
computer time in prison so yeah and the thing here is Captain he has when I say he Joseph Duncan has a similar active
00:46:38
blog that has and it's it's the same thing where it's like almost journal entries right um and a lot of it's
00:46:45
talking about his time in prison and and things he gets in trouble for in prison
00:46:50
and he he talks smack about the wardens and about the judicial system and things
00:46:55
like that um the way I understand it this is an active blog and it has a similar name to the fifth nail it's
00:47:01
something like the the fifth nail Chronicles or the fifth Chronicles something like that it has a very
00:47:09
similar name again you can easily find it if you just look up his name uh I will throw out there maybe don't waste
00:47:16
your time because it's a lot of very boring dry reading uh I read through some of it like I said boring stuff and
00:47:23
plus you know this guy is a hor monster I don't want to spend any time with him yeah and if the colonel says it's boring
00:47:29
you know it's boring so the the way that I understand the that the current blog works is that he is not actually allowed
00:47:38
to write any of it himself um which which should be I applaud that I don't think I'm all for freedom of speech but
00:47:45
I don't think that people serving time life in prison on death row that they should be just typing away their own
00:47:52
newsletter well especially especially people that have crimes against children exactly so the thing here is from my
00:48:00
understanding is there somebody on the outside that operates this for him um that he you know he he corresponds with
00:48:09
this person and from time to time this person posts things on that blog on his behalf well you got these weirdo rich
00:48:17
friends you know could be could be I I think it might be a woman I'm not I'm not certain anyway sorry we got kind of
00:48:24
sidetracked there but you you were to bring that up because people are probably questioning that so we have
00:48:29
this unsolved case of Anthony Martinez the 10-year-old that disappeared for two weeks and then later was found dead and
00:48:36
we have people coming forward stating that there's similarities between Duncan and the composite drawing also remember
00:48:43
the little boy was bound with duct duct tap yeah so authorities were able to after looking into this they're able to
00:48:51
match Duncan's fingerprints to a partial thumb print that they found on the duct
00:48:57
tape on Martinez's body also it was learned that Joseph Duncan had stolen his girlfriend at the time he had stolen
00:49:06
his girlfriend's car and that car was a white Chrysler Town Car which matched the description of the abductor car as
00:49:13
well well there you go yeah during the sentencing he would he eventually go to trial for this for the the death of
00:49:22
Ernesto Martin I'm sorry for the death of Anthony Martinez but during the sentencing phase of the trial arnesto
00:49:29
Martinez this is the boy's father he said 14 years ago to this day my son's life was brutally taken by the hands of
00:49:38
a monster I am angry that instead of attending my son's college graduation I am spending a day at the sentencing for
00:49:47
Tony's murder as a father I would love nothing more than to carry out this e execution with my own two hands
00:49:56
I know there will be no punishment greater than the special place God has in hell for Joseph Duncan to endure the
00:50:04
pain and suffering we've had to experience right the Riverside County superior court judge this is David
00:50:11
Downing said I can say in 31 years involved in the criminal justice system I have never met a more evil person than
00:50:20
Joseph Duncan and he immediately had the prisoner removed uh from the courtroom then six deputies they lead Duncan out
00:50:28
of the courtroom and during this time he glances off into the audience with a kind of a dumb smirk on his face as he's
00:50:36
as he's facing the audience there yeah I'll post uh some of these pictures of him at trial and him like being
00:50:42
transferred from prison to to to trials um and you'll see him he has a bunch of different looks but uh you know there's
00:50:52
definitely something something wrong with him I mean you can just see it in his eyes it's there there's
00:50:59
something like just something missing about him MH now there's some other crimes that they're concerned about as
00:51:06
well uh the federal oh hold hold on if I wasn't clear I'll post those on our Instagram at True Crime garage the
00:51:14
federal prosecutors also revealed that Joseph Duncan confessed to the murders of Sammy Joe White 11 years old and her
00:51:22
half sister Carmen kubas uh this is she's 9 years old the two girls vanished in July of
00:51:29
1996 after leaving the crest motel in Seattle they lived with their mother at this motel and the family was very poor
00:51:39
uh the kids would often make a little bit of money panhandling uh the exact details of
00:51:45
their disappearance are not known they're they're completely unknown but their remains were not found until
00:51:51
February of 1998 so less than two years later uh now we said Joseph Duncan confessed to this crime to these two
00:52:01
murders but it sounds like the authorities are in need of much more than than whatever Joseph Duncan told
00:52:09
them uh because he has not been charged with their murders yet okay answer me this go ahead okay so think about the
00:52:18
Brian Ferguson case from last week right you have a story that doesn't make any logical damn sense right right has no
00:52:28
information correctly but we hand you all the information during the interrogation now you got this piece of
00:52:34
horeshit Behind Bars and he's already been TR we already know that he uh you know killed four people and then we
00:52:44
charged him with this the killing of the boy Anthony Martinez yeah exactly and now he's confessing to crimes and law
00:52:54
enforcement is going to say we well we need more than that well here's the thing I I mean you see what I'm saying
00:53:01
that's that's my confusion no and I agree with I agree with you but I I think we're talking about the playing
00:53:07
field it's not an even Level Playing Field right we have all kinds of different players in this system and
00:53:14
just like any line of work some of them are very good at their jobs some of them
00:53:18
are very bad at their jobs some of them care and have basic human decency and some people don't care and have no human
00:53:27
decency and I think what we're looking at here is I think people involved in and and I know what you're saying we we
00:53:33
want to see Justice for as many of these victims of Joseph Duncan as possible right and how could we not get Justice
00:53:41
for these two little girls when somebody like Ryan Ferguson ends up in in prison
00:53:47
no record for nothing yeah right for and he's totally innocent I see what you're
00:53:52
saying I think what we're seeing though is I I think in this situation we have we have prosecutors these are federal
00:54:00
prosecutors um I think they they're doing a very good job I think they know the law and they're working within the
00:54:07
conf the confines of that law I think Joseph Duncan as I said is a manipulator I also think he's a liar and I think it
00:54:15
would be you probably can't believe anything this guy says the thing here is Captain I wouldn't be shocked if he in a
00:54:24
round about way somewhat confessed you know what I mean that he didn't fully come out right my understanding of it is
00:54:32
I don't have the confession or what he said to them but my understanding is that they he did not give them enough he
00:54:40
did not give them enough details he was he he didn't get certain things about the crime right um he basically said
00:54:48
where he had abducted the girls from he didn't recall their names or at least said in that interview that he didn't
00:54:55
remember their names M um and I think a lot of evidence was lost because they weren't found until almost two years
00:55:03
later so just just really a bad a bad situation now regarding Duncan and in the crimes you know he was convicted by
00:55:12
three different courts he has been convicted in Idaho for the kidnapping and the murders uh regarding the grony
00:55:19
family and Mark McKenzie in California he was convicted by a superior court for the kidnapping and murder of Anthony
00:55:26
Martinez he has also been prosecuted at the federal level um so so some of these
00:55:34
he actually plad guilty to um but he wasn't able to cut a deal like what we see in most cases he he cut a deal to
00:55:44
get a life sentence but the way that this thing was set up was that they knew he was going to get tried at the federal
00:55:52
level right and it was expected he would receive the death penalty for those crimes so the way that they worked this
00:55:59
thing was he pled guilty at the state level and was given life for some of the murders and for some of the kidnapping
00:56:06
charges and all of that stuff but they delayed the sentencing process for those crimes and those charges because if he
00:56:13
were not to get the death penalty at the federal level then he would receive the
00:56:18
death penalty in Idaho now Joseph Duncan III is currently being held in a Maximum
00:56:24
Security Federal prison this is the United States penitentiary in terot Indiana now this is where we keep
00:56:32
persons convicted of federal crimes this is where we keep the worst of the worst
00:56:36
this is where Timothy McVey was held and executed um now I don't believe that we
00:56:42
have a set execution date for Joseph Duncan if someone finds that please post that at true Crim garage.com in the blog
00:56:51
because I looked and looked and looked and could not find it right but on record there they haven't I don't think
00:56:56
they've executed any Bas since 2003 correct and so it's been a while and we need to get that going again so now like
00:57:04
with somebody with Timothy McVey you need to get executions going again we need to get that that thing fired up
00:57:10
again yeah the with Timothy McVey he was executed extremely fast right so on on average a federal death row inmate is
00:57:19
usually executed after about 15 years MCV was only about 4 Joseph Duncan committed these terrible crimes in 2005
00:57:29
he wasn't convicted at the federal level until the second half of 2008 so if we get back on schedule and the math holds
00:57:36
up we we would be looking at an execution date of 20123 or early 2024 well I I hope you enjoy those uh death
00:57:46
penalty argument look arguments you and I have talked about this a little bit before um on several different shows my
00:57:54
views and opinions on the death penalty are are complex they're not very black and white um so I don't care to get
00:58:02
involved in it here because it would take it would take us 10 shows for me to explain my opinion on it but but what I
00:58:08
mean is sounds interesting save save yourself the time typing the emails because I'm not won't read them well
00:58:15
because what I'm saying is with somebody as bad as Joseph Duncan he's not a person that I care to discuss whether
00:58:20
there should be a death penalty or not okay this guy's horrible he video aped some of the crimes that he committed
00:58:26
against Dylan and sha we know he did this it's definitive it was him he's a horrible person the world is will never
00:58:34
be a better place because he's here so let's not get into that debate one of my concerns though is these rich friends I
00:58:40
mean these you know especially like the one that was married with kids and saying oh release them to me you know
00:58:46
you're either having sexual re relationships with uh Joseph E Duncan or you're part of this pedoph failure ring
00:58:56
and you're right and that's what I was trying to kind of foreshadow and kind of throw that idea out there without
00:59:02
outwardly saying it but yeah I think that they were involved in some kind of relationship together probably a
00:59:08
homosexual relationship so whether you're for the death penalty or against it fact of the matter is this horrible
00:59:15
monster is behind bars and he will not have any more victims and that's a that's a beautiful thing another thing
00:59:23
because uh you know it's funny how you know we've been doing the show for so long but so many of
00:59:29
these cases are connected right and we can reference so many cases just like the Adam Walsh I mean we talked about uh
00:59:36
these crimes being put on America's Most Wanted which would be with uh John Walsh
00:59:42
and the sex offender like uh being registered sex offender basically started because of Adam Walsh so it's
00:59:50
it's interesting to see how they're all connected and how we're growing as a society on some level to try to prevent
00:59:56
these yeah and that's the thing you know you you when something like this happens
01:00:01
you know you can blame you can sit around and try to blame people if you want or you can say how do we grow and
01:00:05
how do we learn from this and is there any possible way that something this terrible this depressing that something
01:00:12
good could come of it and one thing I want to you know I want to give Oprah Winfrey some props here yeah it seems
01:00:18
strange but well this is but some people will some people will remember this in in late 20 5 this crime you know Joseph
01:00:27
Duncan being out being a registered sex offender that was he was being sought he
01:00:31
was a fugitive from the law he was facing these charges in Minnesota right so if they could have found him before
01:00:39
he committed these murders we would have a whole we would have a whole family of
01:00:42
people that still with us right and so this crime inspired her to do her and her show did a basically what I would
01:00:51
call a child molester Roundup you know this feature Fe different child sex offenders that were wanted by the FBI it
01:00:58
would feature those cases on her show and the show offered a substantial reward for information leading to the
01:01:06
arrest of these individuals that were featured on the show there was at least two yeah there was at least two of these
01:01:13
guys that were on the FBI's most wanted list for sex offenders that were apprehended because of the Oprah show um
01:01:21
so that that's one good thing that came of it um the other two is that they increased the um the child victim
01:01:29
recovery funds were increased in Idaho so at the time they would only issue they would a lot I be believe it was
01:01:37
$22,000 or $2500 to a child victim for counseling and therapy uh because of all the trauma
01:01:45
they've experienced the thing here is with shasta's situation she's very young she
01:01:51
experienced something extremely horrific they knew immediately that that that dollar amount would not even provide the
01:02:02
the smallest of bit amount of counseling or treatment for her to try to correct and get things back on path for her so
01:02:09
that she could live a happy productive life so they increased that amount and I believe they increased it to
01:02:17
$25,000 so that was definitely certainly a step in the right direction and you know captain for me and you we do a
01:02:26
different crime every week and I thank everybody for tuning in and listening to the different crimes that we present
01:02:31
every week but sometimes you and I have to go out of our way and look for the good for the positive in these cases as
01:02:39
we get bogged down week after week with with some depressing heavy stuff uh but what's this week's recommended reading
01:02:46
Walking prey how America's youth are vulnerable to sex slavery by Holly Austin Smith this is an important book
01:02:54
with one-of-a-kind insight into this subject matter because it was written by a victim Not only was she a victim but
01:03:01
more importantly she's a fighter her book walking prey is truly an educational experience for both parents
01:03:08
and law enforcement Holly has been on national TV newspapers and radio shows telling her story she has also consulted
01:03:15
for the national Center for missing and exploited children and the Amber Alert program so pick up Holly's book about a
01:03:23
crime that is not well understood by most of us most of us that is walking prey how America's youth are vulnerable
01:03:30
to sex slavery by Holly Austin Smith and you can do that by going to our website
01:03:34
truecrime garage.com and we have our recommended page and you can pick up anything from that page on our Amazon
01:03:40
app yeah if you click through the banner and whatever you buy they give us a kickback and they don't charge you
01:03:45
anything it helps keeps the lights on helps keep some beer in the fridge and I think Nick had a couple too many beers
01:03:52
this episode yeah well I'll do what I want I've I've done a lot of talking so my tongue is not working with the rest
01:03:57
of the mouth at this point well you did a fine job on the research this week my friend like always and uh really
01:04:05
interesting stuff and like you said you can find on the on the computer you can find this blog if you kind of want to
01:04:13
dive more into you know the the fifth nail blog and next week I'm very excited because we are going to feature a case
01:04:20
that has been heavily requested as of recent so we want you to know we are listening and we will be back here with
01:04:27
you in the garage my friends next week yeah thank you friends for listening and until then be good be kind and don't
01:04:35
[Music] litter [Music] you can live out your Master Chef dreams when you find a professional on
01:05:09
Angie to tackle your dream kitchen remodel connect with skilled professionals to get all your home
01:05:19
projects done well inside to outside repairs to renov ations get started on the Angie app or visit angie.com
01:05:28
today you can do this when you Angie that