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subject to credit approval see store or ashley.com for [Music] [Music] details [Music]
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welcome to True Crime garage wherever you are whatever you are doing thanks for listening I'm your host Nick and
00:01:47
with me as always is a man who much like myself believes that the slogan for our
00:01:53
show should be true crime garage try it with cold pizza here is the captain Oh hell yeah it's good to be seeing and
00:02:00
good to see you thanks for listening thanks for T of [Music] friends today we are still sipping on
00:02:11
this powerful Old Ale called the Bible salesman this is an old style ale aged and bourbon barrels it's dark and boozy
00:02:20
drink it in your garage our garage grade three and a half bottle caps out of five
00:02:26
and here's some thanks and praise and cheers to those that helped us fill up the old garage fridge this week first up
00:02:33
a double fisted cheers to Maddie and Christine the TCG Wisconsin twins thank you to the Wisconsin sisters and last
00:02:41
but certainly not least here's a big shout out and congratulations to longtime listener and new friend of the
00:02:47
show Rebecca graduating from Michigan State University with a degree in criminal justice so a big cheers and
00:02:54
congratulations to Rebecca and a big thank you to everyone tuning in this week and to everyone who has contributed
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to the Beer fund yeah BW are you in beer run make sure you go to true crem garage.com and sign up on the mailing
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list a new promo codee's going out this week that is enough of the business all right everybody gather around grab a
00:03:18
chair grab a beer let's talk some true [Music] crime [Music] having seen the reports the criminal
00:03:43
history of a one hary L kigan detectives Dwayne homman and William Bowman of Seattle PD are investigating this
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individual because he's the owner of this successful gas station where supposedly
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the missing girl 15-year-old Kathy Sue Miller was supposed to go to fill out paperwork to
00:04:06
apply for a job at this gas station our situation is this police are armed with two things suspicion about a man that
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they know has a lengthy history a lengthy violent history that includes rape and murder they also have this
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other item of two persons Kathy Su Miller's mother and her boyfriend both saying that they were aware that she was
00:04:35
supposed to meet with that man on the night that she never came home the problem here is Captain we don't have a
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body we don't have a witness saying that they saw Kathy Sue Miller get into this
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man's car all we have is this guy with this lengthy criminal history telling police I went to the location she wasn't
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there now police go back the detectives go back to Kathy Sue Miller's mother and
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they tell her look we are every bit as concerned as you are here's our findings we talked with the owner of the gas
00:05:12
station we interviewed him there's nothing suggesting that we should arrest him there is nothing suggesting that we
00:05:21
could find any evidence to build a case against this guy however here's what we know about him here's his background we
00:05:29
are terribly afraid that he has done something very bad to your daughter Mrs Miller of course agrees now
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she's beyond words right inconsolable all of her suspicions how have now been verified
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minus physical proof minus seeing her daughter and she tells the detectives okay so what are you going to do are you
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going to get a search warrant search his home home search his property search his
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business his cars she's hoping that they could search his home and because we have such a short
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window of time that's expired that possibly they would find her daughter maybe being held captive at his
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home reluctantly the detectives have to tell the mom we're sorry there's nothing no evidence no proof here we
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cannot get cannot secure a search warrant at this time we will keep watching him we will keep interviewing
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him we're going to continue to talk to other people but we need to build a case against this guy at the very least to
00:06:45
get those search warrants to try to find evidence or perhaps find your daughter well the man that Kathy talked to last
00:06:51
has a suspicious and deadly past as a parent I would think that would raise the world worry level up quite a bit
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couple days after she's missing the mother receives a phone call from a male caller this is very strange this is a a
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Crossroads for this mother because on one hand you got to feel like this is horrifying right could this be the
00:07:21
person that took my daughter the other thing is it could be somebody calling in a
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ransom right and that the daughter has been kept held against her will but is unharmed and healthy and now they're
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calling in the ransom so they can collect and return the daughter and keep in mind this is
00:07:46
1973 this is still years not too far removed from when ransoms were very common when a child or youngster would
00:07:55
go missing and and was abducted and the detectives told the mother to actually hope for a ransom caller and we do know
00:08:06
from other cases that we've covered and stories that we've covered here that you
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can get a ransom call that could be a hoax but in a weird way Mrs Miller is hopeful when she hears the man's voice
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on this phone call now it turns out not what she wants it to be but it is a breadcrumb hopefully a breadcrumb trail
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leading her to her daughter the caller says that they had found some school books he's calling from a business right
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and in their parking lot area found and recovered some school books and when looking through the school books they
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discovered the name along with a phone number and they were simply calling to return the books The Lost Books to the
00:08:52
rightful owner this is her daughter's school books remember she went directly from
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school never came home and was last seen waiting for the owner of the gas station
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to pick her up police get these school books and they're looking through the books for a
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clue this is really interesting to me too because this is something I've seen with primarily with
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plastics and things of that nature but I've seen it on occasion with paper as well you talk about the John Benet case
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right and there's been other Ransom notes and the the Larry Jean Bell case they fingerprinted some paper in that
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case as well this case what they did was they they tested they attempted to lift
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prints from the school books hey and if you're going to be a part of the True Crime world you're going to have your
00:09:47
moments where you're going to really lay into law enforcement bash law enforcement but this is one where you
00:09:53
have to give kudos to them because what what do we have already in this case we have a possible
00:10:01
suspect so this guy's saying ah I've never met her never picked her up but if you can find fingerprints on those books
00:10:09
that match his fingerprints then you know he's not telling you the truth yeah and even if you can't trace
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it back to this guy let's say you pull prints from these books and it's from somebody that's in your system right now
00:10:22
you have somebody else to talk to the unfortunate situation ends up being that the only Prince they pull from the books
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are of the persons at this place of work that they recovered them from and because they have such strong
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suspicion on Harvey Kagan they have no reason to suspect the persons that seem to just be a Good Samaritan trying to
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return these Lost Books right so it doesn't really give them any breadcrumbs and it also doesn't really lead them or
00:10:52
build any evidence against their Prime Suspect who we know they will have Harvey carigans Prince
00:10:59
on file because he's been convicted and charged so many times prior to The Disappearance of Kathy Sue
00:11:07
Miller unfortunately Captain Kathy Sue Miller's body is found months later by two boys who are hiking on an Indian
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reservation North of Everett Washington right she was wrapped and bundled in a sheet of visqueen
00:11:24
plastic and beaten with a heavy object believe to be possibly a hammer that left nickel sized holes in her skull is
00:11:36
this a plastic unique the plastic is not unique so Vis Queen some of our listeners will be familiar with this
00:11:44
this is the type of plastic that you would find at when like when somebody's doing a home remodeling project or a
00:11:51
construction project that you would buy these large sheets these large rolls of visqueen and you can roll it out and
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unfold it and then you can use it kind of like Dexter to corn off a a whole area and so you
00:12:08
don't in in remodeling projects you don't get dust and debris everywhere especially when you're when you have to
00:12:14
do demo and things like that this F Queen though is going to be a potential breadcrumb
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Trail and what's so great is this will allow them officers home in and Bowman to get that search warrant that they
00:12:31
were Desperately Seeking in the Cathy Su Miller case so you have the body the visqueen becomes important
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because what they end up doing is they they get a a call a gentleman reaches out to the detectives and says oh by the
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way I kind of know Harvey caran we're kind of friends and I happen to give him a role of visqueen
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plastic prior to when this kid went missing and they say okay great do you have any any that you used prior do you
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still happen to have any that you used prior and luckily so I believe the way the story goes is that he used some to
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lay down in in the trunk of either his wife's or daughter's car so they're able to retrieve that now what they're hoping
00:13:25
the detectives are hoping is that they're going to get some kind of match to one of the cut sides or torn sides of
00:13:35
the visqueen that they found Kathy Sue wrapped up in and what happens is they compare the
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two and unfortunately it's not a match now that doesn't mean that it didn't come from the same role right it just it
00:13:52
just means that it wasn't it wasn't directly torn or cut from the sheet that they had as a sample
00:14:01
and so this is is a bit of a Debbie Downer for their investigation as far as building evidence against Harvey Kagan
00:14:09
yeah a little bit of a let down for old homman and Bowman but because they get this search warrant they are granted
00:14:15
permission to search his property and his Vehicles as well as the business itself inside his
00:14:26
vehicle they are able to take a bunch of prints now this is interesting too because the other part that you have
00:14:33
here Captain is you now have an additional crime scene the location of where her body was found and so this is
00:14:43
the to lip reservation where her body is located they find some witnesses at this reservation that
00:14:54
described a truck that they had seen driving into the woods so this would be near the body recovery
00:15:01
site right on the same day that Kathy Sue Miller vanished they describ this vehicle as a
00:15:09
Chevrolet camper truck yellow with black stripes and a silver canopy that's a pretty unique
00:15:19
description yeah that sounds like a unique creepy camper Chevrolet camper truck yellow with black stripes and a
00:15:26
silver canopy I think when you go to buy the the truck camper bed combo that they make sure that you have
00:15:36
a criminal history or you're not allowed to buy one the thing here in this situation is that is a spot on
00:15:45
description of Harvey kin's truck right we get three different colors there we get we get the make we
00:15:54
get the canopy silver canopy cover yep and all of that lines up on the day that this kid went missing so police are like
00:16:04
okay well it we have a murder case here but now we have the ability to check for fingerprints in this
00:16:14
vehicle because unfortunately what you're looking for is you're trying to put your victim in that
00:16:21
vehicle you want to find her fingerprints what they do is they pull a few prints they were palm prints off of
00:16:28
the window pane the inside of the window pane and they know that they're not Harvey carrian
00:16:34
Prince they go back to the mother with this information here's the problem and this happens still to this
00:16:41
day 50 years later but especially a problem in 1973 and we've talked more than one time
00:16:48
here in this garage show about the identic Kats that you can get from the FBI you can get them from our friends
00:16:57
over at the Nick Mech the national Center for missing and exploited children right these are identic Kates
00:17:03
to update all of your kids information this is fingerprints palm prints an updated picture an updated description
00:17:12
of height and weight and eye color and hair color and all that stuff with your CH child's information this is key here
00:17:19
and look in this situation it's not going to save Kathy Sue Miller unfortunately but what it could do is
00:17:25
put her proof positive in the Killer vehicle and get this monster off of the streets before he does it again the
00:17:35
problem here though Captain is Kathy Su Miller 15 years of age 3 weeks before her sweet 16 birthday had never been
00:17:44
printed had never been fingerprinted right they pull unidentified palm prints from the inside the interior of this
00:17:53
vehicle but they got nobody to match them to nobody in the system and they can't can't even compare him to their
00:17:59
Victim Because she was never printed and by the time she's found she's in a state of decomposition
00:18:05
that does not allow them to pull prints and and they took they took some great efforts to try to to still fingerprint
00:18:13
her after death and they were unable to put her and place her in the car the other problem too is the people more
00:18:21
than one person witnessing this very unique the three different colors on this vehicle the make they had it down
00:18:28
to every description every detail that you can think of mhm the problem ends up being none of these Witnesses while they
00:18:37
saw the vehicle on that same day they couldn't describe the driver they they all said we never saw the driver we
00:18:43
never saw anybody get in or out of the vehicle well we see this a lot with many serial killers especially back in the
00:18:49
day because of less technology but it seems like these killers that are able to kill for a a longer span of time time
00:18:59
there's a little bit of luck on their side unfortunately it's been my experience that the killer gets lucky
00:19:06
and the dead victim just never ends up with much luck and you have to believe it was never reported but I would I
00:19:14
would be willing to bet here that they probably tried to find her prince in the business or at his home or decided to
00:19:22
not go that route once they learned that she had never been printed you pointed it out and I second it I Echo that
00:19:30
statement of here's these two detectives doing everything that they can even before it's confirmed that she was
00:19:35
abducted or missing that she wasn't some runaway so what's the next step for these
00:19:41
detectives the next step is trying to build a case against this guy right you want to build a case against him for
00:19:48
Kathy Sue Miller's abduction and murder but if you can't they're running into dead end after dead end here the
00:19:57
evidence is always leading them back to Harvey carrian but not giving them enough proof to make an arrest not
00:20:05
enough proof to charge him with anything and bring him in and and and bring him before the
00:20:12
courts I do want to point out something that I that I failed to mention earlier when we talk about the efforts that
00:20:17
these two detectives were making against Harvey Kagan even before Kathy Sue Miller's body was found they were
00:20:25
following him when when they had any extra time that they not working other cases they were surveilling Harvey kman
00:20:35
one they were hoping that he might return to the body and that they that they would find
00:20:42
her that way and that would be their Smoking Gun oh we've we followed you to the recovery site right he never did any
00:20:50
of that when they were following him around and so they're trying to build this case against him now her body's
00:20:57
found the evidence all leads to him but it's not proof that it was exactly him that did any of this now we end up
00:21:05
having another situation very similar this is a month and a half later approximately where a young woman Mary
00:21:13
Townsen is attacked she's waiting at a bus stop he approached and attacked her from behind knocking her unconscious she
00:21:23
woke up and when she does she is in a vehicle with a man this man begins commanding sexual
00:21:34
favors and she manages to LEAP from the vehicle now this is very unfortunate she was running away from
00:21:45
home right and even though she's attacked and everything this guy's saying sounds
00:21:55
like it's going to lead to a sexual assault she thankfully is able to escape she doesn't report
00:22:03
this crime at the time part of it was because she was running away from home and so this goes unreported and
00:22:12
then during this time this is where police are going to try to get their break they interview Harvey carrigan's
00:22:19
family remember he's married to a woman that has two children and during the course of all of this we got a whole lot
00:22:27
of stuff that's going on inside of the Four Walls of that home one the little boy 11 or 12 years old at this point
00:22:35
Billy he decides to go and live with his father why because he says that Harvey his stepfather is physically abusing him
00:22:44
beating him up right the daughter still lives there she is roughly the age of our victim Kathy
00:22:55
Sue Miller she had has told I I I this part of the story is a little difficult for me I don't know if
00:23:03
she's reporting this well after the fact or if this was known at the time but at
00:23:08
some point she would tell others that she didn't like the way that her stepfather looked at her she always felt
00:23:14
uncomfortable around him but never really reports that that he did anything to her mhm unfortunately what we do know
00:23:22
is happening is he is regularly getting upset with his wife and being pH physical and abusing
00:23:30
her so his wife Alice she's in the process of trying to leave Harvey she files assault charges against him so the
00:23:43
detectives are at least able to pick him up on these assault charges now unfortunately they're not going to be
00:23:48
able to hold him for very long but they take him off the streets and they were hoping that this would be the Crux of
00:23:54
the future case that they could build against him maybe Alice is his wife or soon to be ex-wife knows something about
00:24:01
this or she can provide evidence to them but that's not going to go the way the detectives want it to go no because
00:24:12
at some point Harvey's going to convince her that they should be together and that she should drop the charges now
00:24:20
what ultimately ends up happening is that she doesn't decide to go back with him so he Harvey carrian again this is
00:24:32
incredibly shocking to me he ends up finding another woman to date she's 29 years
00:24:41
old 29 years old Elaine Hunley and they strike up this relationship and they move out to
00:24:50
Minnesota remember he he had been in Minnesota prior to going to Seattle Washington right the detectives tell him
00:24:58
look you shouldn't be leaving the state we're investigating you for several different crimes one including murder
00:25:04
and he says you don't have a choice I have to work he decides to sell the gas station he moves to
00:25:12
Minnesota and it's obvious to detectives that he's trying to duck these charges go to a place where they have no
00:25:20
jurisdiction and they've not been able to build a case against him yet and once in
00:25:26
Minnesota they are living together him and Elaine Huntley are living together at some point she decides to break off
00:25:34
this relationship I don't know why exactly she decides to break off the relationship but we do know that he was
00:25:40
physically abusive to his two prior wives oh he's fugly right right you better have a nice personality when you
00:25:48
look like Harvey KET it's hard to he's hard to look at she breaks off the relationship and
00:25:55
then presto changjo poof disappears I mean he is so fugly that it kind of hurts your eyes it's like stings a
00:26:04
little bit I'm unsure how they narrowed down this date I'm sure that Elaine Hunley probably told some of her friends
00:26:12
or family what was going on in their relationship but the report is that she left Harvey Kagan on August 9th 1974
00:26:23
this is after they're already settled down living in Minnesota she leaves him August 9th of
00:26:30
1974 it's reported that she's missing had disappeared the next day unfortunately Elaine Hunley her body
00:26:41
would be found a little under five weeks later and she had been murdered her skull she was beat so badly that her
00:26:51
skull had imploded by blows to the head and she had been raped red with an object in a tree branch and that was
00:27:02
rather obvious during the autopsy of course that is going to now put Harvey KGAN under the microscope in the state
00:27:14
of [Music] Minnesota [Music] ah the sounds of the holiday because when you open a college
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[Music] [Applause] [Music] 2023 all right we are back cheers M tall cans in the air he's back and I'm out to
00:30:24
lunch yeah he's been out to lunch for years this brings us to September of 1974 on our timeline here
00:30:33
Captain when a young woman her name is Gwen Burton she's picked up from a Sears parking lot this is because she's having
00:30:40
car trouble and a man who she thought might be helpful a Good Samaritan decides to stop and offer her assistance
00:30:49
he gets out of his vehicle takes a look at her vehicle and says look I can help you out here but I don't have the tools
00:30:56
needed to to take care and fix the problem if you hop in the vehicle with me we can go to my house real quick pick
00:31:03
up the tools I'll fix up your car and send you on your way right so Gwen thinks here we got a situation where
00:31:10
maybe someone's come to help me and she gets in the vehicle and she realizes look this ride seems very
00:31:19
long why would this guy why would anybody agree to help me if if we got to go so far away to get to his home just
00:31:26
to get these tools right so she starts feeling uncomfortable and and says to him
00:31:32
look could you please just return me to my car you don't have to fix the car it was nice of you to to attempt it was
00:31:39
nice of you to try to help me out but you know you make excuses I'm in a hurry or uh any reason to get out of that
00:31:47
vehicle at this point because she's now getting very nervous and she doesn't feel like we're going to his house to
00:31:53
retrieve tools take me back to my vehicle at some point she starts telling the man or you
00:31:59
could just let me out here and I'll figure it out I'll I'll find my way back to my car or to my
00:32:05
home it is then that he refuses to let her out of the vehicle and he gets physical with her ripping off of her
00:32:13
ripping off her clothing and he's choking her in the vehicle he then takes her to
00:32:21
a field where he sexually assaults her with a hammer and then beats her with said
00:32:31
Hammer and flees the area unbeknownst to the man Gwen Burton survives bloodied and close to death she
00:32:44
crawls to help well to have the strength to keep going sometimes the will to live
00:32:51
is stronger than the will to die so that was September 14th now this will bring us up to
00:32:58
September 18th four days later we have two teenage girls who are walking on the side of the road when they are
00:33:05
approached by a man in a vehicle and he offers them he offers to pay them $25 each and what he is requesting is
00:33:15
that he needs to go retrieve his son's vehicle from an A a location that he may have told to the girls I'm unclear on
00:33:25
that but he's saying look the problem is I'm by myself I'm flying solo here I need somebody else to drive either my
00:33:32
vehicle or his vehicle once I get to it I will pay you each $25 it won't take long it his vehicle is only a couple
00:33:41
miles down the road this seems like Easy Money a lot of money at the time for the
00:33:45
girls and so they say yes they get into the vehicle with this man that they do not know and after they're driving for a
00:33:53
while again he's he's now going out out into out into the country out into the sticks and they're starting to wonder
00:34:02
like this seems a lot further than what he had told us and one of them questions
00:34:07
the man and says look where are we going this doesn't make a lot of sense this is
00:34:13
a lot further than you had said and we we have things to do we you know our parents are going to be looking for us
00:34:19
at some point and the man says to the two teenage girls would you rather be killed or
00:34:28
would you rather be raped and the one girl nudges the other girl and speaks up for both of them and
00:34:37
says we would rather be killed the other girl agrees and says we would rather be
00:34:44
killed when the man finally stops the vehicle he instructs the girls that one of them is to stay with his vehicle and
00:34:52
the other is to go with him to retrieve his son's vehicle unfortunately for the girl who agrees to go with this man I
00:35:05
believe she agreed to go with the man to spare her friend this trip this walking trip away
00:35:13
from his vehicle is going to take them into the woods which of course these are teenage girls they're not idiots they're
00:35:20
wondering why there's no way this guy's kid's son's vehicle is in the woods no but I believe she went with him simply
00:35:30
to spare her friend yeah I mean I think once once he poses the question rape would you rather be raped or killed I
00:35:40
think they know that they're not going anywhere I think at that point they know everything before that question was a
00:35:47
ruse exactly and here's the weird thing though what we would learn is it said that he didn't say that in like a like a
00:35:54
threatening manner even though just those words in themselves are threatening but they said that he almost
00:36:01
posed it like a philosophical question right uh hypothetical of some some sort regardless now she's in the woods
00:36:11
with this guy and and he does physically attack her he he hits her with a hammer and then for unknown
00:36:22
reasons there he decides to let her live and he gets in his vehicle and he drives
00:36:30
off leaving the two girls there now what we end up having here Captain is in the
00:36:36
course of these four days we end up having three different people three different young ladies that come forward
00:36:43
and go to police and they describe the vehicle that they were in they describ the man that they had
00:36:50
had talked to he we what we would ultimately learn is he used a fake name on both occasions
00:36:57
when introducing himself and talking with the the victims that were in his vehicle but unfortunately this does not
00:37:05
lead to an arrest fast enough because on September 20th 1974 2 Days Later 18-year-old Catherine Schultz
00:37:13
disappeared her body was found the very next day in a corn field she had been beaten to death with a hammer so badly
00:37:22
that her skull had imploded and they knew that she had been sexually assaulted but
00:37:30
not in a traditional rape manner that she had been assaulted with an object okay so we're starting a lot of these
00:37:38
things are starting to align where you have these victims that survive these attacks and they're describing attacks
00:37:44
that are very similar to the ones that we end up knowing led to the death of Catherine
00:37:51
Schultz and Elaine Hunley Elaine Hunley was in the relation ship living with Harvey
00:37:59
KET all of this will lead to them securing a search warrant for his vehicle in Minnesota when they search
00:38:07
his vehicle underneath the seat they find maps to several different states and they find like it's it's described
00:38:15
almost as like a hair ball or a clump of hair but but the hair is not all belonging to the one person right and so
00:38:22
what detectives in Minnesota believe is that this is the hair of several different victims that found its way
00:38:28
either under the seat or or matted into the seat but these maps are of extreme interest to the detectives because that
00:38:37
has many locations that are circled in different states now we already covered that Harvey Kagan lived in Alaska he
00:38:44
lived in the state of Washington and he's lived in Minnesota well what they find
00:38:51
is two of the locations that are circled on those Maps one of them they know to have been
00:38:59
the location where 15-year-old Kathy Sue Miller's body was recovered from in the state of
00:39:07
Washington the other thing that they noticed too is that one of the circles on that map for the state of Washington
00:39:16
is where they found the body of a victim that we previously mentioned but did not go
00:39:24
through the story and that is of Laura lesie Brock remember she was a woman who went
00:39:36
missing just 70 days approximately 70 days after Kathy Sue Miller went missing right so the story behind this Captain
00:39:45
is on Thursday September 14th 1972 the body of a young woman 20 yearold Laura lesle Brock who was a sophomore at
00:39:54
Western Washington State College was found in Coupeville Washington down a dirt road about 1/ half mile west of Oak
00:40:02
Harbor the body was nude except for a pair of navy blue socks she had been raped and died from severe hemorrhaging
00:40:10
from several very brutal blows to the head with an undetermined object the body was found on the 14th and then
00:40:17
later identified on Tuesday September 19th 1972 authorities found a note at Miss
00:40:24
Brock's rooming house right that she was leaving for the beach and she spoke with
00:40:31
her grandmother prior to leaving and by all accounts her intention was to hitchhike we can confirm this based on
00:40:38
the fact that her grandmother told her in that conversation do not hitchhike and warned her of the dangers of
00:40:44
hitching right and Laura explained to her mother her grandmother that it's legal to do so and that she was in fact
00:40:51
going to hitchhike to the beach she was going from Bellingham Washington to the the Olympic Peninsula this is one of
00:40:58
those cautionary tales that all parents tell children and that friends warn one another about saying things like
00:41:05
remember Laura Brock her first hitchhiking trip was her last this case became political at the state level in
00:41:14
fact this is one of the policies that was in debate for a few years in the state of Washington we have Jim costanti
00:41:23
running for state senator pointing out that Senator Senator Peterson voted for what costan's team was calling a
00:41:32
legislative tragedy bad judgment for government is what he called it so well just because
00:41:39
something's legal like she's telling her grandma doesn't mean that it's safe exactly and here's that's the exact
00:41:46
problem so oddly enough legislation made hitchhiking legal in the state of Washington that year the very year that
00:41:55
she goes missing and she's later found dead with this horrific event the goal then became two-fold for the state one
00:42:02
any crime involving a hitchhiker to be sent to the state police and two make hitchhiking illegal again in the state
00:42:11
but to your point Captain listen to this statistic Washington State Police and the Seattle Washington Police Department
00:42:18
reported that over the course of about 15 months that once hitchhiking became legal in mid 1972 the stats are that the
00:42:28
state of Washington averaged about 20 hitchhiking related crimes per month two of which resulted in Murder that's too
00:42:38
many one is the Lura Brock case that we talked about in September of 72 and the other is Katherine Mary divine's murder
00:42:45
in November other crimes related to hitchhiking range from robbery to rape so not good Bob now note that Harvey was
00:42:55
never char charged with Laura Brock's murder and in fact no one else has ever been charged in her murder either but
00:43:04
Harvey kman all these years later 51 years later Remains the prime suspect in Laura
00:43:11
Brock's murder based on the fact that he received a speeding ticket in the area where her body was found right around
00:43:18
the time that she went missing on top of that we also have a witness who claimed
00:43:23
that they saw lore get into a vehicle that when they provided the description to police matched Harvey kagan's truck
00:43:32
well like we said sometimes these killers get unlucky but this killer is also just dumb I mean he has a very
00:43:41
unique paint job and color scheme of the vehicle he's using to abduct these women yes in this
00:43:51
situation you know he's he's getting lucky time and time again because they have a lot of signs they being the
00:43:57
authorities law enforcement detectives they have a lot of signs pointing directly to Harvey Kagan and a lot of
00:44:03
this but they don't have any direct evidence until they find these Maps now what they're going to do is they're
00:44:10
going to build a circumstantial case a mountain of circumstantial evidence against Harvey carrian in the Minnesota
00:44:18
cases the two cases that we circled back to Kathy Sue Miller and Laura Brock's cases they took place in Washington just
00:44:26
a couple years prior to what would ultimately be Harvey kman being arrested and interviewed
00:44:35
interrogated by the Minnesota police what ultimately happens here Captain is he gets an
00:44:43
attorney and Harvey kigan then tells police yeah the Minnesota crimes that you're charging me with because he the
00:44:51
problem he's facing here is those three living Witnesses right he might get lucky in the murders that he caused
00:45:00
because unfortunately he silenced those victims and they're not there to put him
00:45:06
away but the three living Witnesses are and he ultimately tells the detectives I did what you say that I
00:45:17
did his defense Insanity he says God told him to kill those women now the good thing here is that this
00:45:31
horrible evil man will 100% be off of the streets it's where do we send him to right an Institute
00:45:43
or a prison this thing goes to trial and they were very smart here on on a few different levels so they they charge him
00:45:53
with attempted murder and aggravated sodomy and he's going to have to go to trial
00:45:59
for those charges first before he will face any of the murder charges in court and he puts together this defense
00:46:08
of God told me to kill the [ __ ] and these women that I assaulted were [ __ ] and I tell you what this guy
00:46:17
this is what strikes me about Harvey caran he comes off as this kind of O like this dumb o like
00:46:27
part of that is his appearance and part of that is his delivery and the way his speech the way that he
00:46:34
talks but unfortunately he's not an unintelligent man he he is intelligent enough that
00:46:43
while on the surface this God told me to do it defense sounds absolutely crazy and
00:46:50
sounds so backwards but Harvey takes to the stand he's going to testify at court and he
00:46:59
does a pretty good job I've reviewed the transcripts and in fact if you read the
00:47:04
onead killer book by the great Anne rule she goes through large portions of that
00:47:12
trial he takes to the stand and he goes one-on-one with the prosecutor toe-to-toe
00:47:20
and one thing that is so bizarre but again he knows he's being locked up it's just where are you going to send him
00:47:26
to but he's going to play the part he should maybe you give him the Oscar I don't know but when he's on the stand
00:47:34
they point to uh one of the women that's there at court who he almost killed they point
00:47:47
to they point to Gwen Burton the poor woman that he picked up from the Sears parking lot offered a
00:47:54
help that he nearly Beat to Death death in fact we know captain that when he left her there in that field he believed
00:48:00
she was already dead mhm she crawls to safety and later is facing him in court and you know what he says he says you
00:48:10
know what yeah not only did God tell me to kill her but given the chance again I
00:48:17
would finish the job he says that on the stand at trial in front of the jury this is is meant to be a a tactic
00:48:27
to convince the jury that God is actually telling him to kill the hores what they what they trip him up on
00:48:37
is all of the sexual assault that she had to experience before he attempted to kill
00:48:43
her he gets convicted of the attempted murder and aggravated sodomy charges and then we're
00:48:51
going to follow that up with early the next year 1975 when Harvey KGAN is then found guilty on both uh sorry then we're
00:49:02
going to follow up that then we are going to follow that up with the following year in
00:49:06
1975 when he is charged with second deegree murder and first-degree murder and then found guilty on those charges
00:49:17
based off of a mountain of evidence and this defense of God told me to do it what tactic that I thought was really
00:49:27
interesting here captain and this is very mind hunterish this is something that the
00:49:33
first generation of M Hunters would would tell you to do Harvey kman did not like the two
00:49:41
detectives that stayed on his tail so much back in Seattle Washington homman and Bowman Dwayne homman and William
00:49:49
Bowman he did not like them the Minnesota authorities the prose utor reached out to the two detectives and
00:49:58
said please reached out to the Seattle Police Department please would you send one or both of the detectives to sit at
00:50:06
the trial just to unnerve Harvey Kagan just so he has to see one or both of the detectives that
00:50:14
he despised so much for following and tailing him all that time and basically running him out of Seattle Washington he
00:50:22
fled that area he makes it look like it was because of a relationship and a job opportunity but he had a successful
00:50:28
business in Seattle Washington sure enough they put one of the detectives in the courtroom at trial
00:50:36
but again the size of this man and the fear that this man instilled into others and we've talked about this before
00:50:43
Captain it's rare that members of law enforcement especially seasoned detectives are afraid of a certain
00:50:51
criminal one of the detectives did go to the trial but he told he told the prosecutor and the police
00:51:00
out in Minnesota he goes I will go because it will help you at trial and I want to see this guy put away especially
00:51:08
because we weren't able to put him away here for murders we know he committed but you have to promise me
00:51:14
that I get an aisle seat because I've seen Harvey KGAN mad and angry and upset and if he gets that way when he sees me
00:51:23
I don't want anything St standing between me and the [Music] [Music] door well Harvey the Hammer's luck would
00:51:48
finally run out at the age of 95 years old he would die in prison yes unfortunately Harvey kman was never
00:51:59
sentenced to death again after getting off of that charge for killing sha Walter way back in
00:52:09
1949 and so he is convicted sentenced to life in prison at the age of 49 so think
00:52:16
about that for a minute 30-year time span roughly that this man was out in killing and we believe five
00:52:26
murdered victims probably more and I say that just based off of the randomness of
00:52:32
his crimes in the time period that he committed these crimes he's at at the simplest form he's picking up a stranger
00:52:39
on the side of the road and then assaulting and killing them and then just leaving them out in the open he's
00:52:46
he's your typical disorganized killer serial killer charged and convicted of three murders definitely did five in my
00:52:55
humble garage opinion probably more he died in March of 2013 so 50 years after he killed
00:53:07
15-year-old Kathy Sue Miller he was diagnosed with he was diagnosed with prostate cancer in
00:53:14
1997 and lived all of these years in Oak Park Heights prison in Minnesota until passing away this year want to thank
00:53:23
everybody for joining us here in the garage this week Colonel do we have any recommended reading for the beautiful
00:53:29
listeners yes we do Captain this week I'm very excited to recommend to all of the listeners the want add Killer by one
00:53:37
of the greatest and one of the legends of True Crime storytelling the great an rule this is just one of her many
00:53:48
shattering and thought-provoking true crime stories make sure you check out the one ad killer and all of the other
00:53:56
great titles in an rules catalog and check out all of our recommendations by going to our recommended page on the
00:54:03
website true Crim garage.com and until next week be good be kind and don't [Music]
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