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GameChanger [Music] welcome to True Crime garage wherever you are whatever you are doing thanks
00:01:44
for listening I'm your host Nick and with me as always is a man who learned The Facts of Life from watching The
00:01:51
Facts of Life he is the captain yeah you might had a crush on Blair or toy but my
00:01:56
money was on Edna it's good to be seen and good to see you thanks for listening thanks for telling a
00:02:03
[Music] friend this week we are very excited to be featuring up high by our good friends
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at the terapin beer company this high five California style IPA leads you down a road of pure adrenaline and Beauty the
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give a big cheers to our good friends who contributed to this week's beer fund first up cheers to Laura and Steph in
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Fargo North Dakota and a big shout out to Catherine in Castro Valley California next up we have a cheers to my man xano
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from the Seedy part of Parts Unknown Zano he has a $3 parking fine he owes us for and a big we like your jib to Julia
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and will in Rally North Carolina here we go Captain we have Kimberly from Adena Minnesota and last but certainly not
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least a cheers to Briana and Chester in North Carolina lots of love coming from North Carolina thank you to everyone who
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went to True Crim garage.com and helped us out with this week's beer fund We Are
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Forever grateful and a quick Parts Unknown announcement if you rented the movie porkys or the movie Dirty Dancing
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from The Clubhouse please return them immediately all right Captain all right everybody in the garage everybody out
00:03:37
there in wonderful listener land that is enough of the business everybody gather
00:03:42
around grab a chair grab a beer let's talk some true crime record stereophonic as well as mon orally bringing the new
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thrill of living stereo to home recording now High Fidelity music at the new low speed of of only 3 and 3/4 in
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per second one whole hour of stereophonic music or 2 hours monoral in a single tape
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cartridge in the past playing a vital role in developing a dramatic new product to further and Advance a great
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new industry the tape cartridge [Music] m April 23rd 1974 the Ogden Standard Examiner page 1
00:05:07
headline read three murdered as burglars invade Ogden Record Shop Manhunt on the newspaper only cost the locals 10
00:05:19
cents for the daily copy to read about the horrific murders it was not just the murders that
00:05:26
terrified the city located at the foot of the satch mountains it was a fact that the killers
00:05:32
were still on the loose and their identities unknown to law enforcement and the community portions of Cory Peterson's
00:05:42
article read police throughout Utah are searching for men who Ed guns in the killing of three persons after invading
00:05:52
an Ogden Record Shop all were shot in the back of the head the chief of detective IV in the
00:06:00
Ogden Police Department said all of his men and all officers of the newly formed
00:06:06
tactical Squad have been assigned to the case he called the crime A continuing one lasting several
00:06:16
hours the gruesome Affair apparently started about 700 p.m. when two men broke into the Hi-Fi
00:06:25
shop some of the victims were tied up and taken downstairs one of the victims was found almost
00:06:33
completely nude police said robbery was the primary motive no motive for the shootings and
00:06:42
the torture had been discovered the Utah Highway Patrol said police are looking for two
00:06:51
Vans one described as a yellow late model van and the other as a dark blue Chevrolet van
00:07:00
the suspects are considered to be armed and extremely [Music] dangerous sometime after 900 p.m. on
00:07:25
Monday April 22nd 1974 police are responding to what was labeled at the time as an unknown
00:07:34
trouble call they found a man in very bad shape in a parking lot behind the Hi-Fi shop located at
00:07:42
2323 Washington Boulevard in Ogden Utah the Hi-Fi shop was a successful store that sold expensive stereo equipment and
00:07:53
Records the man in the parking lot was 43-year-old Orin Walker Orin said he had been shot in the back of the head and
00:08:01
tortured by two men who were robbing the store he said after the men left he had
00:08:07
managed to crawl from out of the basement of the store making it all the way to the parking lot there were other
00:08:16
victims inside likely all dead police searched the area and the store they found no signs of the two asants cited
00:08:27
by Orin but the police are going find four more victims in the basement of the Hi-Fi shop regarding the call to police
00:08:35
The Story Goes Like This captain that someone living nearby or working nearby saw Orin in the parking lot of the Hi-Fi
00:08:44
shop and saw him to be in very bad shape they call it into the police department
00:08:50
and that's why the the call went out as an unknown trouble call they're responding to something going on but
00:08:58
they don't know what it is around the same time orin's wife and son arrived on the scene really just seconds before or
00:09:07
seconds after the police there are two rather conflicting stories here the one we just told you about was from the
00:09:16
Ogden Standard Examiner April 23 1974 newspaper the next is from the crime classification manual a standard system
00:09:26
for investigating and classifying violent crime times a book that is the result of a 10-year project by the FBI's
00:09:34
National center for the analysis of violent crime there it says that around 10:30 p.m. police responded to a call
00:09:43
from orin's wife and one of his sons who went to the store when they became concerned that Orin and their other son
00:09:50
this is Stanley Walker did not come home and this version which both are to be fair both versions are repeated in other
00:09:58
public locations but these two happen to be the ones that I chose to list here in
00:10:04
this version Orin Walker's son could hear disturbing noises coming from the basement so he either broke down the
00:10:11
door or broke into the shop and found his father unconscious at the foot of the basement stairs how they were found
00:10:20
is not really important what is important is that they were found and found relatively soon after the attacks
00:10:28
this most definitely prevented further loss of life there were five victims total with at least four of them being
00:10:36
found in the basement of the Hi-Fi shop two of the victims were dead when police
00:10:41
arrived two more were clinging to life and or was in very bad shape as said the three living victims were immediately
00:10:50
transferred to the nearest hospital now just to give a quick little reference here captain in 1974 about 65,000 people
00:10:58
lived in the greater Ogden area our five victims are Michelle antley Byron Courtney Nesbit Carol Nesbit Orin Walker
00:11:08
and Stanley Walker Michelle and Stanley were the two that were already expired by the time the police arrived they were
00:11:17
both shot in the back of the head and likely died instantly or very quickly Michelle was 18 years old she was
00:11:25
planning on getting married in August of that same year she was newly employed at
00:11:30
the shop she had only worked there for about a week or so Stanley was 20 years old and employed at the store as well I
00:11:40
believe he was in more of a managerial role or at least in that type of role that evening he likely was in charge of
00:11:49
closing the store that night the terrible and just really strange thing is and we've seen this in some other
00:11:57
tragedies it's been reported that the two that were working that night Michelle and Stanley were actually
00:12:03
filling in for some other employees right that we hear that a lot in cases but this is also scary too because even
00:12:11
in a situation like when I used to work at a bank you're not so worried so much about the individual coming in and
00:12:18
passing a note saying you know I want all your money it's it's the Takeover of the store so at some point this store
00:12:28
this high five story has been taken over by how many people we don't even know Carol Nesbit was alive when responders
00:12:37
were on the scene however she died shortly after arriving at the hospital Carol was shot in the back of the head
00:12:45
and she was 52 years old at this time Byron Courtney Nesbit was just 16 years old he was shot in the head as well in
00:12:55
the back of the head he survived he was in a coma and was in in the hospital for
00:13:00
266 days before he could go home now I do want to point out before we move on that Byron and his father share the same
00:13:10
first name so he went by Courtney his middle name Courtney Nesbit so if you hear us call this young man Courtney
00:13:18
that's why we are doing that Orin Walker was alive and in the hospital as said he
00:13:24
was 43 years old at the time of the attack but he was alive and actually he was in considerably better shape than
00:13:32
Courtney Nesbit was he was able to tell police what went down that evening at the stereo shop so let's talk about that
00:13:42
attack and what we know about the robbery that took place at the Hi-Fi shop Michelle and Stanley were working
00:13:52
that night at the Hi-Fi shop the attack took place just before closing time which which was 7:00 p.m. when two
00:14:00
men entered the shop they were armed they tied Michelle and Stanley up and they forced them down to the basement
00:14:08
and right after this Courtney nesbet is going to enter the high-fi shop yes he goes in there and the story
00:14:16
that has always been told is that he went in there to thank Stanley who was working at the store that day for
00:14:24
allowing him to park his car in their parking lot that he had some things to do in the area he needed somewhere to
00:14:31
park the vehicle it was really just a nice young man going in and saying hey thank you for allowing me to park there
00:14:38
that day unfortunately he's unaware that the store is in the middle of a holdup during this time where the perss are
00:14:47
inside and taking hostages the Courtney walks in he's very quickly controlled by
00:14:53
the two men he's LED downstairs to join the other two captives then just before 9900 p.m. Orin
00:15:03
Stanley's father walks into the stereo store he went looking for his son as he knew the store had been closed now by
00:15:11
this time for almost 2 hours when Orin walked in he said that he saw no one and in fact he didn't hear anything either
00:15:20
he walked around for a bit and then he got near the door that led to the basement when he was surprised by a man
00:15:27
with a gun the man told him to move it downstairs when Stanley sees his father he shouted something you know this
00:15:37
caused a bit of a commotion Stanley was kind of like upset you know he's upset that his father he's now seeing his
00:15:44
father there and he's like why did you come here why did you come here this causes a commotion which led to one of
00:15:50
the asants to Fire Two Shots this was not shots at the victims this was two gun shots into the wall my
00:16:00
guess here Captain it's one of those situations you see it in movies all the time you think you're losing control of
00:16:07
the the hostages M and you're firing what is likely warning shots to let them know hey I'm still the one that's
00:16:17
calling the shots here I'm still the one that's in control everybody needs to settle down and let me do let me carry
00:16:26
on with what we're going to do here but these shots happen while they're in the basement but do we have any witnesses
00:16:33
that hear these shots like outside the no theore we don't have anybody that has as far as I know the only Witnesses we
00:16:44
ever have outside of the shop would be somebody nearby who said that they saw one of the victims in the in the
00:16:52
parking lot which would have been Orin who called in to kind of clear that up again it
00:16:58
doesn't does really matter how they were found what what my thought is on that you know CU a lot of times people are
00:17:04
going and I say the same thing when I'm doing the research and say well why would you have two completely
00:17:09
conflicting stories here well one this crime classification manual was written years after this crime took place the
00:17:18
newspaper account came out the very next day and sometimes when they're reporting
00:17:23
things that's they have limited information to report on they're not really filling in the blanks they're
00:17:29
just reporting what they know at the time my guess here Captain is it's likely that all that stuff was happening
00:17:36
everything that is mentioned in both reports actually happened and they probably all happened very close in time
00:17:44
so what we have here now is we have another person entering the Hi-Fi shop and he's taken captive as well so
00:17:54
this is roughly 2 hours after they supposedly close mhm and now we have four people hostage correct and these
00:18:04
warning shots if you want to call them that this triggers the hostages to panic and they start to plea with the captors
00:18:12
Michelle and Courtney the two youngest they are begging for their lives Orin and Stanley are taking a different
00:18:21
approach here they are trying to convince the men with the guns to just take the money take any merchandise that
00:18:28
they want and telling them hey we won't be able to identify you we don't know who you are or at the very least we
00:18:36
won't identify you right well Captain unfortunately things will get worse and I'm not really sure why these offenders
00:18:44
would not just lock the door so no one else would enter while they're doing what they're doing my guess is they need
00:18:53
to carry out this merchandise expensive stereo equipment mhm there is a back door too so I can't say for certain but
00:19:02
as we know there are five victims in this incredibly horrific case so now we have victim number five enter into the
00:19:10
store this is Carol by now Captain as you said we have four persons already tied up and on the basement floor Carol
00:19:19
nesbet Courtney's mother comes into the store and she just as fast as the others
00:19:25
is taken hostage as well now now with five people tied up one of the men instructed the other to get something
00:19:34
from their vehicle outside the man returns with a bottle wrapped in a paper bag from this bottle
00:19:42
the man pours a thick blue liquid into a plastic cup so one of the men explains that the liquid explaining this to the
00:19:51
the people that are tied up that the liquid is vodka mixed with a German drug each of the hostages are told that they
00:20:00
are going to have to drink this concoction they are told that the concoction will make them and make all
00:20:07
of them fall asleep for a while and while they are sleeping the men will be loading up the merchandise and then they
00:20:14
will take off when each of them wakes up they will be fine and eventually they would be
00:20:20
found and freed yeah well damn I wish it could have been just that easy that simple but
00:20:28
as we know captain from the long list of cases we've covered we know it's just so
00:20:34
very rare that it is ever that easy or ever that simple right one of the men forced the hostages to consume the
00:20:43
liquid however each victim when they are swallowing this drink they are coughing they are choking
00:20:53
some of them so violently that they are spitting up the liquid from their mouths
00:20:58
and noses now Orin would be one of the last of the five that was forced to consume the
00:21:07
liquid so what he did he saw and he heard the reaction that the others were having to this what clearly I mean he's
00:21:16
43 years old he's he's an intelligent man he's probably believing hey this is not what they're telling me it is this
00:21:24
is not vodka in a German drug concoction it's just going to make us take a nap right I mean this would be hard to kind
00:21:32
of tell though because at first these individuals are taking this drink they're spitting it up and that is
00:21:38
something that could possibly happen for somebody that is not used to drinking alcohol but they're they're screaming
00:21:45
and right but that's what I'm saying is like the initially maybe the first couple coughs or the first couple
00:21:51
spit-ups you're going okay well that's just you know this some kind of weird you know I'm trying to put myself in in
00:21:57
their shoes oh there these guys are drinking this thing there must be some kind of weird
00:22:02
alcohol this is not going well but like you said as it becomes more violent and their reactions become more violent mhm
00:22:11
you you have to then decide are you going to put this in your mouth at all this this could be poison right and the
00:22:19
thing too is three of our victims are rather Young when you think about it 16 18 and 20 years old I mean they may have
00:22:27
believed what these asants are saying that hey it is this concoction in fact maybe maybe
00:22:34
Carol and Orin believed it at first as well but you know Orin as said is 43 years old he knows that if the captain
00:22:42
hands me a shot glass and says here Nick shoot this whiskey and I do it I go you
00:22:47
know and I'm screaming right that it's probably not what these guys are saying plus it's it's always difficult it's
00:22:56
always damn near impossible to believe anybody that's pointing a gun at your face and hold on real quick I I just
00:23:02
want to back up a second please don't do any more sound effects that was it was horrible I tried to get away from the
00:23:10
mic so it wouldn't be so so here's what we do okay unbeknownst to the perpetrators Orin is going to kind of
00:23:19
fake consuming the liquid yeah right he's going to spit the liquid out he faked the coughing and the choking yeah
00:23:28
the liquid was not having the effect on the hostages that was desired by the captors
00:23:36
and then things turned very bad very quickly when they tried to get Courtney to drink the liquid a second time they
00:23:46
poured so much that his mouth overflowed and the liquid came out and got on his face and ran down his his the front of
00:23:54
his neck uh instantly burning the skin after this they began attempting to give each hostage a second dose the other
00:24:03
hostages a second dose of the liquid this had similar results as the first time remember we still have Orin who has
00:24:12
been about able to fake drinking the liquid and seems to be getting away with it at this time again he hears the
00:24:21
screams the choking and the coughing of the others and he continues to imitate these noises and reactions that he's
00:24:28
seeing and hearing right but these captors you got to think about the captors like you said whatever effect
00:24:34
they wanted this liquid to have or this poison to have on their hostages it's not working mhm like
00:24:44
planned and so now they have to make a decision what are they going to do well I think that's why you see okay now
00:24:51
here's the time for the double do the the second round of this terrible blue liquid and when then the second round
00:24:58
doesn't work now they're saying all right let's let's tape the mouth shut of the now screaming victims you know these
00:25:07
victims are our hostages are creating a lot of noise a lot of commotion we need to silence these people right so they're
00:25:15
going to attempt to tape the mouths shut of each one of these individuals the other as salent at this
00:25:24
time decides that he's going to untie Michelle and he takes her to another part of the
00:25:30
basement where he rapes her now some Reports say repeatedly I don't think we know for certain either way there are
00:25:38
some reports that say that this went on for about 20 minutes and even worse there are some reports that state Not
00:25:45
only was the other as salant you know there's there's only one rapist in this Twan group but some reports state that
00:25:55
the other as salent may have even watched watched The Assault on Michelle yeah again but you're standing by and
00:26:03
letting it happen it always drives me nuts we we see this time and time again with a break into a house and a takeover
00:26:13
of a house where that's the initial crime and then all these other Crimes start happening on top of that like like the
00:26:23
individuals couldn't control themselves well Michelle after this attack uh is brought back to where the other hostages
00:26:30
are and thrown down between two of the other victims by this point because of the thick blue liquid the victims most
00:26:38
or all of them are vomiting one of the men is going to start executing our victims it sounds like
00:26:47
Courtney and Carol were the first two that were shot Courtney saw his mother Carol get shot and then he was shot and
00:26:58
lost Consciousness Orin was shot but this was not a good shot okay there's again several reports the bullet either
00:27:07
grazed him or missed him completely Stanley was shot next and it said that he looked at his father and
00:27:16
told him I've been shot and then he went limp Michelle who begged and begged and
00:27:22
pled for her life repeatedly was shot the men were gone from the basement for a while after shooting all of the
00:27:33
victims one of them returned presumably to check on the victims something tipped
00:27:39
him off that or was not dead so the man attempted to strangle him with a cord or
00:27:46
a wire then the same man returned later again returning for a second time this time with a flashlight
00:27:56
and he's check checking Orin for a pulse angered that Orin was still alive mind you he is still alive but this
00:28:06
whole time he's been pretending to be dead pretending to be dead by staying still and giving off the appearance of
00:28:12
not breathing while you are in pain from having been tortured your throat mouth lips face neck shoulders your skin is
00:28:22
burning and you're forcing yourself to lay there still he has been choked with a
00:28:29
wire to which Orin positioned his neck later we would learn that Orin said hey he positioned his neck and head and
00:28:36
expanded his neck muscles so that he could still somehow get a little air while this guy was
00:28:43
choking him now this robber turned captor turned torturer rapist and killer someone just vicious and evil he's
00:28:54
checking for a pulse on Orin and now he's angry that Orin is still alive he grabs either a pencil or a pen
00:29:05
and violently jams it into orin's ear to which he begins kicking it and stomping on it until the writing
00:29:13
utensil I'm starting to lose my words here Orin can feel it bust through his ear canal and into his
00:29:20
throat apparently this satisfied the attacker because he then left the basement area of the stereo store
00:29:27
and did not return from there Captain we have to leave everyone with the two versions of how the victims were found
00:29:35
and again my best guess is that they are both somewhat correct because both have
00:29:41
Orin Walker's wife and other son arriving about the same time as [Music] police [Music]
00:30:01
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00:32:15
cheers to you Captain cheers to everybody out there listening now thankfully because we have some
00:32:21
survivors unfortunately we have three dead victims but the two that remain alive we have Courtney who is in a coma
00:32:31
but then we also have Orin who is able to tell police what went down and a general description of who is
00:32:39
responsible and who they should be looking for the Utah Highway Patrol said police were looking for the following
00:32:48
two africanamerican males both in their early 20s one man is approximately 5' 10
00:32:55
in tall and the other man is thought to be 6 ft tall they also have that vehicle
00:33:01
description looking for two Vans one described as a yellow late model van and the other as a dark blue Chevrolet van
00:33:11
and we have a general description of the weapons used during the whole horrific ordeal as well one of the suspects is
00:33:19
believed to have been carrying a 22 caliber automatic pistol and the other carrying a snub-nosed 25 caliber
00:33:28
automatic pistol we see 22 calibers and even more specifically a 22 pistol or handgun in a
00:33:36
lot of the cases that we've covered what we don't see is hardly ever really is a
00:33:42
25 MH in fact I was trying to think of a case that we covered with a 25 and really none came to mind now I do know
00:33:51
of at least one Infamous case that the serial killer known as the Grim sleeper Lonnie David Franklin Jr he shot all of
00:34:01
his known victims all 12 of them with a 25 caliber gun he was apprehended in 2010 he gets the name Captain because he
00:34:10
took 14 years off between some of his killings this was 1988 to 2002 mhm actually while we're on it I know
00:34:22
I'm getting a little off topic here but Nick Broomfield made a really good documentary called Tales of the Grim
00:34:29
sleeper he was the man that made aen life and death of a serial killer which was one that made my top 10 list
00:34:41
way back when we did our mustc true crime episode which was episode 197 yep 197 and came out in
00:34:51
April of 2017 so download the very free very awesome Stitcher app to listen to all of
00:34:57
our old episodes all of the old True Crime garage episodes so again we have the description of the two perpetrators
00:35:04
and the description of the vehicle so the Manhunt is on you were saying that there's a description of two different
00:35:11
Vehicles two different Vehicles two different men two different guns okay and of course as said in the trailer the
00:35:17
suspects are considered to be armed and extremely dangerous We Know by the crimes they've committed they are
00:35:23
extremely dangerous so is the thought that they took two vehicles because it would be easier to transport whatever
00:35:31
items they're going to steal from the Hi-Fi store well that that's interesting I don't know I can't say for certain
00:35:40
that they fully believe that both the vehicles belong to the perpetrators right because you got to keep in mind
00:35:47
where is this vehicle description coming from well one could believe that it's possibly coming from Orin who entered
00:35:55
the store right or we've had in other cases Captain where there's other Witnesses you know where we we said that
00:36:01
we didn't have any here but we know that somebody called police with the unknown
00:36:06
trouble call where this vehicle description came from we can't say for certain if it did come from
00:36:13
Orin you have to take it a step further and go okay either both of them are involved
00:36:20
or maybe one or maybe none because Orin at some point is in the basement of the Hi-Fi shop right if he's saying hey
00:36:31
I think I saw these two vehicles on my way into the store he can't say for certain when they left right boy can you
00:36:38
clear something up for me cuz it I can't find this information and I'm looking right now I will do my best Mr Captain
00:36:45
is this building like separate or is it a part of is it like a standalone building yeah or like a strip mall okay
00:36:53
I from my understanding it is a standalone building well because okay so because the only picture that I can
00:37:02
find it looks as if this Hi-Fi shop is connected to other shops okay uh that would also make sense one is called the
00:37:14
dollhouse um I'll post these pictures on Instagram at True Crime garage you're probably looking of pictures at the of
00:37:23
the time period And once thing I will say when I was doing my research is this address
00:37:30
that I came up with here that's listed in the papers for the attack at the time the newspapers that I went through
00:37:36
didn't have any pictures of the actual shop itself but I believe you know we we can imagine that the city's probably
00:37:43
grown in the last 45 years right I believe I'm going off a memory here Captain but there is there is a very
00:37:51
similar address where there's like a West Washington Boulevard now and back then there may have just been Washington
00:37:58
Boulevard so I couldn't quite confirm both of them are I believe are currently businesses so I couldn't confirm if the
00:38:05
structure had stayed the same and which one was of this exact Hi-Fi shop but yeah it could be um more of a strip mall
00:38:15
type situation again some of the stuff that I'm finding is um this is a Hi-Fi store but one of the pictures that keeps
00:38:23
coming up is a high high-fi store or called the Hi-Fi shop but it's in an Arbor Michigan so they're just filling
00:38:31
in a random picture yeah to go with with the story a stock photo is that what they call those yeah and the only reason
00:38:39
why I'm saying that is because maybe you get uh if there's a small parking lot that somebody from a different store
00:38:48
parked there you know like a employee just use that parking lot when I used to teach at the guitar store right I I par
00:38:56
parked in the parking lot of the building next door so somebody would have seen my vehicle at that shop but
00:39:03
that doesn't mean I was in that shop right no you bring up a good point and I think that at this time in our
00:39:09
investigation in The Manhunt police aren't certain exactly what kind of vehicle they're looking for they've
00:39:16
somehow obtained the description of these two vehicles they're going to include both of them out to all of their
00:39:22
other officers out to the newspapers to get the public involved you're you're going to include both hoping that one or
00:39:29
both were in fact actually involved in the commission of these crimes but as we said in the trailer there Captain these
00:39:37
suspects are considered to be armed and extremely dangerous the state patrol and
00:39:41
police posted several officers on guard at the hospital because there were a lot
00:39:48
of concerns that the men responsible learning that two of the victims had in fact
00:39:54
survived might go to the hospital and try to finish the job so to speak well and think about if you're the responding
00:40:03
officer you go to the scene there's no hostages on the main level you now go to the basement you find the other four
00:40:12
down in the basement three are shot and killed the other one's in a coma but on top of that you have to have
00:40:23
some like you were saying that this this liquid that they drank there has to you
00:40:29
were saying that it was burning the skin and the victims were vomiting at one point right so you have vomit all over
00:40:36
the place you have these marks that probably don't make any sense to you on their face and on top of that they're
00:40:43
all executed I mean this would be a horrific scene to try to piece together all the
00:40:51
puzzles of what the hell happened well and some of those details were left out of the next days paper mind you they're
00:40:57
still hunting for the the perpetrators at this time right look it there's no doubt that these asants were certainly
00:41:07
dangerous but they really weren't on the run right they they were not intending on running or fleeing or you know going
00:41:17
cross state lines really what happened is they were intent on returning to their normal everyday lives after
00:41:23
killing three people and leaving another one in critical condition barely alive in a hospital bed mhm after police gave
00:41:32
the public the description of the two suspects police received a couple of tips right one tip was from a man at the
00:41:41
a nearby Air Force Base this is Hill Air Force Base the man lived at the base he
00:41:47
was an Airman and said that another air Airman his name William Andrews told him
00:41:54
several months before that he and another another air man this is Dale s Perry we're going to do something big
00:42:01
someday like a robbery then on a separate occasion William Andrews told him someday I'm going to rob the Hi-Fi
00:42:10
shop and if anyone gets in my way I'm going to kill them again if you're working with
00:42:17
somebody that says one day I'm going to do something big like Rob the Hi-Fi store maybe you you start by saying
00:42:24
maybe you should set your goal RS a little higher right I mean who knows what what conversation was had after
00:42:32
somebody says this we know that a lot of times when something like this happens often the other person thinks that the
00:42:39
person's joking right or just saying something out of turn there so I'm going to rob the Hi-Fi shop specifically
00:42:47
references the Hi-Fi shop and if anyone gets in my way I'm going to kill them well this tip now mind you you got to
00:42:53
keep in mind we don't know what this tip means means at this time when it comes into the police force or to the task
00:43:00
force we don't know anybody can call in we've seen plenty of cases where we have a divorced wife who's calling in
00:43:09
some bad tip about their ex-husband or an ex-husband calling in some bad tip about their ex-wife right because it's
00:43:16
somebody that's mad at somebody and says oh they fit the vague description of whomever they're looking for they're cap
00:43:24
oh if they're capable of hurting me they're capable of pulling this off so detectives want to figure out is there
00:43:31
any validity to this actual tip and they went to the air base responding to this
00:43:38
specific tip but before they arrive another tip is called in and it's from the base as well or very nearby but the
00:43:45
tipster stated that two boys well for a back of lack of a better term were dumpster diving and in a dumpster
00:43:55
located at Hill Air Force Base they found a wallet some purses an identification all of this belonging to
00:44:04
some of the victims of the Hi-Fi murders in this dumpster right which makes his tip seem a lot more credible right so we
00:44:13
got to kind of keep this all in real time here and understand that not always does the left hand know what the right
00:44:19
hand's doing or the right hand know what the left hand's doing right so by the time detectives got there to the scene
00:44:26
to this Air Force basee a crowd had gathered in the parking lot around the dumpsters the
00:44:35
detective and I tried my damnest to find his name but but could not just like the
00:44:41
the picture of the actual Hi-Fi shop there are two really good books that discuss the case and the Wikipedia page
00:44:48
is is really good too and pretty thorough but the newspapers and everything else just list this man as
00:44:56
the detective who responded to the scene that's didn't even get his name put out
00:45:01
there not even in the paper well but I wonder if they did that on some level to protect this end of protect them from
00:45:09
yeah from these very dangerous people or does he hold a certain position at that
00:45:15
department where we don't want everybody knowing his name and face right the books by the way are the crime
00:45:23
classification manual and this case is in included as a sample case just a few pages of a case study categorized as
00:45:31
indiscriminate felony murder that's a case study where the investigating agency classifies a murder as
00:45:39
indiscriminate because the offender or like in this case the offenders have decided they are going to carry out a
00:45:47
felony and will murder whoever in the commission of that crime regardless of victimology now I'm not an expert enough
00:45:57
to know if the decision to commit murder has to come in advance of the felony or
00:46:03
spur the moment my guess would be that both apply for that classification the other book is John
00:46:09
Douglas and Mark all Shaker's the anatomy of motive where this case is briefly referenced in a chapter very
00:46:17
fittingly titled Magnum Force at the scene Captain the detective stood in front of the Gathering crowd at the
00:46:25
dumpster and began pulling items out of the dumpster related to the crimes this detective took some classes
00:46:34
at quano and received some training from the FBI John Douglas says the detective
00:46:41
understood both the investigative techniques and the dramatic flare we meaning his department at the FBI
00:46:50
sometimes Advocate if we feel it might help in hunting an unsub an unknown know subject
00:46:56
or an unknown perpetrator right so the detective using long needlenose pliers pulled items out of the dumpster one at
00:47:06
a time and each time he's waving them so the crowd could see them as his partner
00:47:13
held open an Evidence bag for each item keep in mind technically at this point the detectives have yet to identify
00:47:24
their suspects by name even though they've received some tips right he suspected the detective at the dumpster
00:47:32
he suspected that the perss may be in the crowd and like so many others they wanted to
00:47:40
observe what they could about the investigation as you know with Deli we have ISP Doug Carter who says the famous
00:47:48
quote you want to know what we know yeah I mean again we have five victims three
00:47:56
of them are now dead one's in a coma so they're not talking and we don't know and we we can assume that these suspects
00:48:06
don't know they don't know the health conditions of the other Survivor so as far as identifying this person if you
00:48:17
don't know these individuals this is going to be really hard other than you know a
00:48:23
blanket um profile yeah I believe that the papers the newspaper at the time when describing the two survivors simply
00:48:30
said that they were both hospitalized one in critical condition so that doesn't give you much of a description
00:48:36
one but then on top of that keep in keep in mind you know just a few weeks ago we
00:48:42
discussed Paul John nolles and he was a real monster a real piece of work who went around and he
00:48:51
robbed and killed people he didn't need to kill them but he did and he jokingly told somebody at one point later in his
00:48:58
life the only good witness is a dead witness well that applies here doesn't it because at the time we have at least
00:49:06
two perpetrators we have one one victim saying hey I saw two men we I was taken captive and the others were killed by
00:49:13
these two men these two men the perpetrators left that crime scene with merchandise with
00:49:20
money from the robbery believing that they didn't leave anybody alive right believing that they had killed every
00:49:26
witness that saw the crime go down but but their other mistake is they took items from the victim so when you get
00:49:34
this initial call from the Air Force Base saying hey some guys that I worked with talked about this and then they
00:49:43
they go digging and they find items from the victims if they never found those items from the victims I think that
00:49:49
becomes a dead- end lead mhm yeah and it's the common curiosity of the perpetrator of the unknown perpetrator
00:49:58
that very often yes they want to know what investigators know they want to trace and track the investigation itself
00:50:05
because of many different reasons but one that we've pointed out in the past is they want to know maybe should I flee
00:50:11
now or not should I take off is now a good time to go live in Alaska right how hot is the hot tub right it's getting
00:50:20
pretty hot how hot is the hot tub this well-trained very intelligent unnamed detective he knew from his training that
00:50:31
if the perpetrators were in fact in the crowd they likely would have some kind of visible reaction to seeing these
00:50:39
items being taken into police possession this is now evidence yeah what if he like pulled out each item and went God
00:50:50
him got him well the detective decided he's going to like he's he's adding flare to
00:50:58
this he's he's purposely lifting every item up so it's well visible to the crowd that's Gathering and while he's
00:51:07
doing this he's watching the crowd to see if there is a reaction to which he says he spotted two men who became
00:51:15
visibly more and more agitated each time an item was bagged and tagged by the officers at one point he says the two
00:51:24
men in the crowd were pacing back and forth and sharing like these menacing looks at one another as they're seeing
00:51:32
some of these items pulled from the dumpster yeah cuz one of the guys is given the look of why did we take these
00:51:38
items you idiot not only that if you wonder like was it one guy's decision to dump these items in the dumpster right
00:51:48
and the other one's like I told you that was a bad idea now look where we're at it's the hot tub and it's getting hot
00:51:54
yeah too hot in the hot tub police then decide hey let's interview these two guys that we saw becoming visibly
00:52:03
agitated in the crowd right and eventually they learned the names of these men from Witnesses but also from
00:52:11
speaking with them the one witness who called in the information about the I'm going to rob the store this is where
00:52:18
they learn the name of Andrews and he is cited as being the one spe specifically to have told this
00:52:26
witness I want to rob the Hi-Fi shop and if anyone gets in my way I'm going to kill them after police arrested the
00:52:34
two the two guys from the crowd then we have a third man who comes forward and he turns himself into police and says
00:52:43
hey I'm here to talk to you about the Hi-Fi [Music] shop [Music] I want to thank everybody for joining us
00:53:00
here again in the garage you mean so much to us so much more to get to and part two and until part two be good be
00:53:10
kind and don't [Music] litter [Applause] you can live out your Master Chef dreams
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when you find a professional on Angie to tackle your dream kitchen remodel connect with skilled professionals to
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get all your home projects done well visit angie.com you can do this when you Angie that