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domain that's squarespace.com [Music] [Applause] welcome to the True Crime garage
00:03:00
wherever you are whatever you are doing thanks for listening I'm your host Nick and with me as always is the man that
00:03:06
chased the snakes out of Ireland he is the captain thank you thank you thank you it's good to be seing and it's good
00:03:12
to see you thanks for listening and thanks for telling a friend tonight we are drinking Keith's
00:03:21
Irish Stout by the great people at Granite Brewery and fantastic Toronto garage grade four out of five bottle
00:03:28
caps if you can get your hands on this make sure you do so because this is a rich multi Stout with roasted chocolate
00:03:35
and coffee notes ending in a dry finish and Keith's Irish Stout was brought to us by first a big thank you to Megan
00:03:42
down in beautiful Grapevine Texas big shout out to Lauren and Rockville Maryland and thank you to Margaret and
00:03:48
duneed in down in sunny Florida and a big we like your jib to Paige and Cornish New Hampshire let's give a shout
00:03:54
out to Morgan and patasca Ohio also a longdistance cheers to Jill in South St Paul Minnesota and last but not least
00:04:02
Captain a big thank you to Gareth in the forever mysterious Parts Unknown yeah and if you'd like to be a member of
00:04:09
Parts Unknown you can do so by going to our website click on the store Page and pick up one of those parts Unknown
00:04:15
t-shirts and thanks to everybody out there for helping us to fill up the fridge for this week that's enough of
00:04:20
the business Captain everybody gather around grab a chair grab a beer let's talk some true
00:04:28
crime [Music] w [Music] the update was expectedly Grim as investigators continue to scour the
00:05:12
grounds of a Toronto home where a suspected serial killer stored his tools the exhausted detective in charge
00:05:18
stopped by this is a 24-hour operation and a horrific one we believe there are more victims on top of those five and as
00:05:28
we identify those victims uh I I can't give you any idea about a number but I do expect more charges to
00:05:36
be laid the ominous prediction comes after police seized more than a dozen Planters from homes that hired Bruce
00:05:43
MacArthur as a landscaper we're not just grabbing every planter we see uh if there's an indication from the K9 units
00:05:51
that there's some decomposition around that planter we we'll grab it the implication is chilling considering
00:05:58
police have found the remains of at least three people in just two Planters they've examined at the same home those
00:06:04
were taken from the plan now to warm up the frozen ground with heaters and start
00:06:11
digging he's retired now but for 14 years Kevin Bryan was a forensic investigator he says the scope of the
00:06:18
MacArthur investigation is staggering and will be tedious only certain parts of the remains will reveal key
00:06:25
information typically the skull uh ribs can can uh give you if there's broken ribs or if there's ribs with cut marks
00:06:33
in them that can indicate a cause of death Grizzly details Peter scomo follows them all with the horror of
00:06:40
someone who might have ended up a victim to scomo knew MacArthur for years when they met up in Toronto last spring he
00:06:47
says they had drinks at this bar then MacArthur offered him a lift to his hotel a friendly encounter turned
00:06:54
intimate then suddenly violent he really grabbed my neck uh violently Twisted it
00:07:02
right to his crotch and his pants were undone and uh that's when I really was quite Disturbed scomo managed to get
00:07:11
away and never saw MacArthur again I have an 18 and 1/2 in neck my neck is big and for him to grab my neck with one
00:07:18
hand twist it like that I I literally thought one one more second he would have snapped and broken my neck and I
00:07:25
was a dead man scomo says he had no idea but some MacArthur's dating profile suggest he was into violent sex today A
00:07:33
man posted how MacArthur pursued him on a gay chat app last fall in online messages he says when MacArthur told him
00:07:40
he was into asphixiation too he got scared and blocked him experts say violent sexual fantasies are common
00:07:48
among serial killers they rehearse in their head for many years and then eventually they begin to sort of
00:07:54
experiment and flirt with the idea of actually acting them out if they know police aren't saying how the five men
00:08:00
MacArthur is accused of killing died only that it's a matter of when not if they'll find more Yanna rottis CBC News
00:08:10
Toronto there are more than 30 properties being scrutinized by police this investigation is big and is getting
00:08:17
bigger dozens of tips continue to come in and the search for remains and other evidence has already expanded well
00:08:23
beyond Toronto to properties in Peele York and Durham regions [Music] all right well we kind of left you
00:08:41
hanging yesterday everybody and we that's the magic of the garage right Captain we can do whatever we
00:08:48
want no but we we ran out of time there so Sinister smug even um there was a lot
00:08:55
to talk about in that little thre minute news clip that we left you with yesterday and the thing here is
00:09:02
regarding Bruce MacArthur and what's come down the pipeline as of late you need to understand this is about as new
00:09:09
of a case as you can get this is pretty this is like breaking news for the garage here because we have a man that's
00:09:15
arrested late January here we are the beginning of March trying to figure out what happened here and how this thing's
00:09:23
going to go down once it gets to court well and because there's so much information coming out from this we're
00:09:28
getting a lot of emails and a lot of people on social media saying hey look into this or cover this case um then you
00:09:35
have to it's the balance of can you cover this case is there enough to talk about yeah well the interesting thing
00:09:42
too Captain is that this kind of came on to our radar uh middle to late of last year when we started getting emails from
00:09:51
our good listeners that are saying hey there's something going on here in Toronto there's all these missing men
00:09:57
right and at the time you have these two different task force and we don't know that anything's connected it wasn't
00:10:04
until the breaking news in in January that they had tied a lot of these cases together and oh the big thing here is
00:10:11
that they all share the same suspect so let's talk about that news clip a little
00:10:15
bit here Captain so what does that tell us that tells me some very very scary stuff at the at the very beginning of
00:10:22
that news clip is where the the man states that police saw a man go up to the apartment with Bruce MacArthur up to
00:10:32
Bruce's place and then they decide to kick in the door and when they get into the apartment they find that this man
00:10:39
that went willingly into Bruce MacArthur's apartment that he's chained up to the bed yeah so what does that
00:10:45
tell us so we know at that time that for some reason in September of 2017 Bruce MacArthur became he he came onto their
00:10:53
radar onto police's radar they go to this Auto Parts this Auto Body Auto Parts uh sounds more like a salvage yard
00:11:02
type thing to me but he sells them Bruce sold these people his vehicle this Dodge Caravan the rumor
00:11:11
that I keep hearing the most is that there might have been dried blood in the back of the van yeah my thought on this
00:11:19
was when they're looking into Bruce or or even this van is at some point they probably took kadab dogs and had them
00:11:28
sniff around and I'm I'm guessing that they got hits uh from these dogs and that's why they
00:11:35
took this van over I would be willing to wager that you're probably exactly right
00:11:42
because here's what my thoughts are Captain is that there was something in that van something inner on that van
00:11:48
that was enough for police we talked about gut feelings as well there was enough for police with their expertise
00:11:54
and their years involved in in sleuthing and in homicide investigations where these guys felt that this guy this Bruce
00:12:02
MacArthur guy this guy that sold this van he's guilty of probably murder there's a chance he's linked to more
00:12:10
than one of these disappearances of these men so we have enough evidence to to stay on this investigation we don't
00:12:18
have enough evidence to wrap him up to to arrest him and send this thing to court so what do we have to do here this
00:12:27
guy is potentially very very dangerous yeah we need to follow this guy maybe here's what I wonder too do you are you
00:12:37
follow you're following the guy probably for a multitude of reasons right but one
00:12:43
is if you think that he might be linked to more than one disappearance are you following him with the simple fact
00:12:51
that let's see where he goes because we have no bodies M we have all these guys that have disappeared we have no bodies
00:12:59
we we don't even know where to start looking for bodies yet right cuz possibly there's a dumping ground
00:13:05
somewhere and I think the other possibility too is that you know he has a violent past he pleed guilty to
00:13:11
attacking a man with a lead pipe and so if you think that two of them are connected and possibly more than two mhm
00:13:19
and then you start looking in the database of all the men that are roughly 40 to 60 years old that have gone
00:13:25
missing in the gay Village of Toronto then you start going well there could be more than five right and then you start
00:13:33
going well this is a possible serial killer and if so you want to stop him uh from having another victim and can you
00:13:42
imagine um the horror that you're tracking this individual and he has a gentleman with him and they're going to
00:13:50
go into their they're going to go into Bruce's uh you know apartment and for all you know that's the that's his
00:13:57
dungeon uh so well that that's the scary thing Captain because you know what happens
00:14:03
during that situation is you don't have I wouldn't imagine that you have the top
00:14:08
cops you know you don't have the the super detective out following around Bruce MacArthur that's kind of a u a
00:14:14
tedious task that you give you give to some the rookie that's right so you got these guys out following Bruce MacArthur
00:14:21
around there's there is a phone call there's a cell phone call made at that time that says you know what look boss I
00:14:30
understand that we have an active investigation here I understand that our number one priority is to follow this
00:14:36
dude around and see what he's up to however I have to tell you a guy that that could potentially fit this dude's
00:14:44
victimology just went into his apartment what do we do boss because you run the risk of completely sabotaging your
00:14:52
investigation here or you also run the risk of one not pro your job is to protect the public protecting serve you
00:14:59
could you could be sending a guy to his to his to the death sins yeah to Bruce Bruce MacArthur's apartment and then
00:15:06
that's on your hands as a as a department and I'm sure that the chief or whoever says hey you got to go in
00:15:14
because if if it gets out that they're following this individual and he basically murders somebody underneath
00:15:21
your nose now you're going to catch him for that crime you're going to lock him away for that but you got to get him on
00:15:26
these other crimes as well mhm but it's also going to come out to the public that you were watching him and basically
00:15:32
murdered somebody and you knew it right you knew under under your watchful eye this guy was killed now the thing here
00:15:39
is what they do ultimately do decide to do is break down the door they go in and
00:15:44
they find this this man um chained to the bed now okay now there's a lot of people out there going to go okay well
00:15:50
he went into the apartment willingly yes and he could have been he could have been involved in a consensual Act Right
00:15:59
George stanza so so what we're talking about here though is there there are some wording Within These news reports
00:16:08
where we find out very quickly after them going into Bruce's apartment that they start to search Bruce's apartment
00:16:15
they start to search areas and locations that are tied to Bruce MacArthur well and a lot of a lot of homes are going to
00:16:23
be tied to him because he does work at a lot of homes yeah and I want to be clear
00:16:27
here because we are making some assumptions in today's show and we have to because this is such new information
00:16:34
that once the police make their arrest and they they announc to the public that we've made an arrest guess what you're
00:16:39
not going to get much information after that because we need this stuff for trial right so we have to make some
00:16:46
assumptions here to kind of tie this story together to tell it completely and that being my suspicion is that when
00:16:52
they kicked in that door and they found that gentleman chained to the bed yeah there's a good chance that he told
00:16:59
police look yeah I came in here willingly at some point this guy's doing something against my wishes without my
00:17:08
consent well he could have pulled I mean there's so many weird things here that Bruce is to me like it just reminds me
00:17:18
of a lot of things one the lead pipe you know attacking an individual out of nowhere with a lead pipe and then having
00:17:25
that attack where he apologized for it that that is something that happened with gasy yeah and then you got this
00:17:33
situation where you have an individual that goes into your house willingly but now you get him
00:17:39
handcuffed reminds me of gayy as well M the old hand you know the old handcuff trick and so was he tricked and then
00:17:48
also you know praying on the gay community bath houses and bars that's very dmer like to me yeah and when you
00:17:57
hear that this guy is charged with a couple of couple counts of murder you start to wonder okay well if he did do
00:18:04
this and you know me I like to I like to call him out on the show he's looking very guilty even early on in this even
00:18:13
with the assumptions that we have to make he's he's looking to be very guilty here well maybe you can clear this up
00:18:20
for me the the guy that they found handcuffed to the bed does he come out and state I I
00:18:28
didn't want to be handcuffed um I I don't know that I'm making a complete assumption there I'm
00:18:34
here's what I'm guessing because they found some some people are into that right of course of
00:18:42
course you just say it like that okay anyway um the thing here is though my assumption is that this guy felt
00:18:51
threatened or concerned for his life or well-being at some point and was probably thankful that that the cops had
00:18:59
kicked in the door and my the reason why I say that is because I don't know exactly how the the rules and the laws
00:19:06
work up in Canada but here okay if they would have kicked in the door they can kick in the door on probable cause but
00:19:14
if that guy then says look I came in here willingly and we're just we're two grown men we're two adults doing adult
00:19:20
things nobody's in trouble here Bruce MacArthur has every right to tell the police get the hell out of my apartment
00:19:27
yeah we're just doing a horizontal naked hug yeah adult hug uh toes to feet right
00:19:33
toes to face what no okay anyway so the thing here is though Captain if unless the police have probable cause to search
00:19:43
his Apartments I think something happened they witnessed something that they said look either we don't need
00:19:50
Bruce MacArthur's consent or this guy that was chained to the bed he's a potential victim he tells us something
00:19:56
is not right is going down now we have probable cause to search Bruce MacArthur's apartment the reason why I
00:20:02
say that is because they must have found something they must have found something
00:20:07
in that apartment that led them from from where they were before where they were just surveilling him to now we have
00:20:14
enough that we are going to arrest this guy charge him with two counts of first-degree murder and yet we have no
00:20:20
bodies yeah they found something in that apartment and like with like you hear in
00:20:25
the trailer earlier is the is the idea that if you don't have any bodies it's really hard to convict somebody mhm but
00:20:32
they feel like they have enough evidence of such now following Bruce's arrest we
00:20:40
have other people coming out and we have other sources and in fact um that that start coming out and telling stories
00:20:47
about Bru Bruce MacArthur now one story is about an alleged sexual assault this is from as early back as
00:20:56
2016 mhm so a police Source this is quote unquote a police source told to I think it was the global news but
00:21:05
regardless it was one of the news outlets this story involving Bruce MacArthur and it goes like this that the
00:21:11
source said that MacArthur had agreed to meet a man again this is from sometime in
00:21:18
2016 that he had became acquainted with through an online dating app the two agreed to meet for consensual sex at a
00:21:26
secluded North York Park lot during the date the source told MacArthur allegedly
00:21:33
I'm sorry the source said MacArthur allegedly started to choke him while the couple were in the back of MacArthur's
00:21:39
red van the man was able to fight MacArthur off and told MacArthur he was going to call police MacArthur
00:21:48
reportedly then drove to the 41 Division police station in Scarboro where he told officers that he
00:21:56
was going to be caught that they were going to be called about a sexual assault and MacArthur's telling the
00:22:03
officers you know this wasn't true this is not going to be a true statement that
00:22:07
you're about to receive from this person this act was consensual uhhuh and while
00:22:13
this is all going down we have the man who was allegedly choked he did call the police like he
00:22:19
said he would good for him and he talks to he talked to officers at the 32 division in Toronto's North End mhm so
00:22:29
at some point the source then said told the news that MacArthur was placed under
00:22:34
arrest and was taken to the 32 division where he was investigated for this situation M the problem here though is
00:22:45
whatever goes down whatever MacArthur tells these officers he's not arrested and he's not charged with anything and
00:22:52
now that they have Bruce arrested and he's being charged with these murders of these missing men we're going to have
00:23:00
other people that were attacked other men that were attacked by Bruce come forward and share their accounts of and
00:23:07
and and how they survived attack from this vicious guy yes let's listen to this man's
00:23:22
story Mr MacArthur uh was he looked like Santa Claus like um even on his profile his Pi had a picture
00:23:31
of him as the Maul Santa he didn't strike me as someone who was going to kill me he stried me as someone who was
00:23:42
trying to push my limits but then it quickly turned to this guy's not respecting my limits you don't go into
00:23:50
these things thinking it's going to be you you hear about them happening to other people but
00:23:58
it's just it still blows me away today that it this occurred to me this this happened to
00:24:05
me I was just the lucky one like that's all it could happen to anyone I first became aware of Bruce
00:24:16
MacArthur um it has to go back probably over a couple years of just ad hoc kind of oneoff messages on various apps that
00:24:30
day it was a beautiful sunny day clear clear clear sky I um it was a daytime meeting I was
00:24:40
supposed to be there about to meet him about 12:00 noon I believe um I was running a little bit behind but I was in
00:24:51
correspondence on the app saying I'm rning behind just hold on for 15 minutes and I was getting my stuff together um
00:25:02
and then I went to the meeting the designated meeting place and that's uh when I got in his uh truck when I got in
00:25:12
the truck I had a conversation with Mr MacArthur about a serial killer being at large
00:25:21
when I said there was a serial killer he didn't respond it was just like the conversation uh kind of went
00:25:29
into what he does for living which possibly could have been related I guess in hindsight he did
00:25:40
mention he had a roommate he said it was just a roommate um that he was at work and
00:25:48
uh that was would be a problem and so I took that at face value um and I went uh to put on the things that
00:26:01
he um asked me to put on and uh he makes me a drink I was aware that um there was
00:26:15
GHB that was there GHB is a drug that uh causes a Euphoria um put you at ease and makes
00:26:27
you comtable and a little bit um um heightens the sexual encounter um that's why I would take it um if you
00:26:40
do there's a fine line with GHP because it is the date rate drug if you go over if you know what you're doing you can
00:26:48
certainly uh knock someone unconscious very easily he he was going to mix the GHB up
00:26:57
for for me but I gave him instructions if he was not to do more than 5 Ms because that would make me go
00:27:08
to sleep uh that day it was agreed that I would uh submit to his experience that
00:27:18
had been indicated on his profiles his his big things as I know them were um he like to find
00:27:30
submissives find their um buttons that he could push find what their Edge W was was yes and then push them over it the
00:27:41
fear that I started to feel uncomfortable that day for the first time was I couldn't
00:27:48
breathe that's I have memories of of not being able to catch my breath throughout
00:27:54
the beginning um early on on and that um that made me uncomfortable and put the rest first red flag up that I that I
00:28:08
wanted to go home because he wasn't I felt respecting my limits the shortness of breath was
00:28:16
from specific acts he was he was doing to me um he was basically uh raping my throat um he was
00:28:33
uh uh cutting off my Airway um and I was physically to the point where I was just giving panic and I was
00:28:44
panicked but in that type of play there's some expectation of trying to find that area where it's it's close to
00:28:54
the edge um but that at that point it was that's the only memory I have from it is that just this overall I couldn't
00:29:04
breathe I couldn't breathe I couldn't breathe how is he cutting off your Airway like I said like with it with a
00:29:11
um his penis um with uh this show is sponsored by better help do you look forward to
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today uh his hands uh with his body weight sitting on my chest when you play with someone in
00:31:21
that this the proper environment it's built on safe say consensual and they're safe words and he wasn't giving into the
00:31:33
indicators that I was not being able to catch my breath um and at this point I started to sweat
00:31:44
quite a bit which for me would be an indicator that I was drugged strong more um I had a larger
00:31:55
dose than what I would have noticed normally when I started to feel uncomfortable I think at that point that
00:32:05
might have been the point where it was too late for me to to um know what was happening to a degree
00:32:17
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[Music] checkout I know there um has been evidence that has been suggested by the
00:35:58
police that um I was unconscious and in that evidence there is definite signs that I was in a position
00:36:14
bound and ready to be killed I don't know how long I was unconscious so but there was at that
00:36:24
point I could hear the roommate was home and the roommate was like like I didn't hear him come in
00:36:38
the front door and that sort of noise so the roommate was well in the apartment for a period of time by the time I was
00:36:46
aware of him and I did say to um Bruce I said oh your roommate's home like like and I was starting to use this as my way
00:36:57
to like end end this and uh he he said the words not until I come first I asked to go home he said I had
00:37:09
one more task to perform and then I gathered my stuff and I don't remember getting home that
00:37:21
day I don't remember how I left when the police detective brought to my attention the fact that they had
00:37:31
photographs of me because she she was asking if I saw cameras if I if I and I didn't remember any
00:37:40
cameras um but then when it was winding down and I knew at this point there were photos of me um I
00:37:55
asked her if um like how do you like how do you know like I I still wasn't ready to believe
00:38:06
that I was that victim and uh she said to me um that I was I was bound I was in pretty much for lack of a
00:38:25
better term cuz I can't disc close everything um a a kill position for him and I why it
00:38:40
stopped I don't have all the information the police have all I can go on is what
00:38:45
I I think and it's the roommate coming home interrupting H whatever his process is or his
00:38:54
ritual and uh thank God for me it hadn't dawned on me till we got further along in the
00:39:09
conversation how much danger I was in that day and how close I was to not coming
00:39:19
back um and that is also um something that haunts me gives me nightmares this occurred in the
00:39:30
summer uh about halfway through the summer and the police contacted me the day after his
00:39:37
arrest the fact that they found me the next day um leads me to believe that they
00:39:43
were all they were on top of it and they were they knew who I was um because to go from his rested
00:39:52
and um Finding Me took like less than 12 12 hours I was with my partner and my I
00:40:00
was in the bedroom and I had brought an article out without a picture of Bruce and said oh they caught the serial
00:40:08
killer and then a few minutes maybe 15 20 minutes later he comes down to the bedroom with his tablet with full
00:40:17
picture saying this is the man that did it and I went oh my God and then I told my
00:40:26
partner that um i' been with i' been with him when my partner brought in the picture and I said oh my god I've been
00:40:36
with him that is not unusual for us to have we have an open relationship and it works quite well for us the only thing
00:40:46
that particular day the rule that I broke was I didn't tell him where I was going and that's something that's very
00:40:56
hard for me to today because I would have um had it gone through I would have just disappeared and I would think of my
00:41:06
partner being here um first of all uh wondering why I wasn't home because I was always home when he got home and
00:41:15
then getting probably pissed off that I haven't left the note or called and then
00:41:20
going to panic and then and then the worst case which uh to put him through that would have been hell I am having
00:41:30
some night tears um I'm I'm seeing I'm afraid of the dark I've never been afraid of the
00:41:38
dark the fact that it happened in the daytime is quite um ionic but now I see things in the dark I see
00:41:49
Shadows um uh my counselor told me it's to be expected I've been through something
00:41:59
traumatic and uh um I don't want to live in fear um I don't want to become an asexual
00:42:15
person because I'm afraid of going forward and uh he if he kills those personality
00:42:28
traits to me he's one for me like he's got another he's taking me yet further and I'm not going to be that far a I've
00:42:38
been a victim once of his I'm not going to be a victim [Music] twice so that's a lot to unravel there
00:42:52
yeah powerful stuff from that uh victim that decided to come forward Ward and tell the media what had happened some
00:42:58
interesting things inside that story Captain he says that the police had found a photo of him on Bruce
00:43:06
MacArthur's computer yeah to which he states that he never saw any cameras he does not remember his photo being taken
00:43:14
so so remember he says he believes he blacked out or was choked out at some point well he was also drugged mhm so
00:43:23
well I don't know if drugged is the right term because he knew he was going to take these
00:43:30
drugs yeah yeah a heavier dose than what he claims he had asked for and so at some point we can assume that these
00:43:38
photos that were taken of this gentleman were after he was either blacked out or
00:43:43
choked out by Bruce MacArthur right he doesn't remember seeing cameras he doesn't remember seeing any camera set
00:43:49
up or having his photo taken and the police contact him within about 20 with within about 12 hours of them arresting
00:43:59
Bruce MacArthur the thing here that we learn from this Captain this very detailed
00:44:05
account of this attack on this poor man is that this gives us a lot of insights into Bruce McArthur and what kind of
00:44:12
monster this guy is and furthermore his Mo because you know I was wondering when
00:44:18
we first when we first took on this case and we hear that there was a potential romantic relationship between the
00:44:26
potential offender and some of the victims you wondered if it was like a um I don't know maybe something similar to
00:44:34
a Jeffrey dmer situation where when asked you know dmer had certainly had many crazy levels of perversions that
00:44:42
was going on within him and his apartment right however when it boils down to it sometimes dmer is saying you
00:44:49
know I I killed because I didn't want to be alone because I didn't want this person to leave I didn't want them to
00:44:55
ever leave me and the only way that I could guarantee that was for me to make them my Victim keep them there with me
00:45:03
and then ultimately consume them right now what I mean by that is when I hear of some types of romantic relationships
00:45:11
between Bruce MacArthur and these victims you wonder is was this some kind of In the Heat of the Moment attack
00:45:20
where it's a bad breakup or he gets jealous and he attacks these people no what we see here is that we have a guy
00:45:28
that has some some high perversion levels and these are sexual oriented killings that are going on some of them
00:45:36
could be when you're talking about and the police won't come out and say this you know they won't tell us how these
00:45:43
these poor people have died and been killed but we can assume from the the stories that we're hearing from these
00:45:52
different victims that had survived and come forward we can assume that these are
00:45:58
strangulations asphixiation these are are things along those lines this is how these men were killed yeah I think it
00:46:06
it's almost like you know uh he would take his perversions a little too far where like he's he's getting a a willing
00:46:16
partner to have a sexual experience with and then he's taking whatever fantasy is
00:46:22
in his head because it's just like this Survivor said he well I put on what he told me to put on
00:46:29
and so on some level they're acting out this fantasy but then Bruce is taking it
00:46:34
too far and I think as he's taken it too far it's either that he it's either that
00:46:39
Bruce is losing control or the fact that these uh individuals felt attacked that maybe he felt like
00:46:48
okay well they feel like that's an attack so now I have to kill them to cover up that attack if that makes any
00:46:54
sense I see where you're going with that but what I think we have here is I think
00:46:58
we have a a man that wanted to kill that that has a sexual perversion towards killing that's part of the sex act for
00:47:08
him is the actual murder the actual death of the his victim okay and the reason why I feel that way is I I see an
00:47:17
evolution let's say in this this individual where this first attack that we hear about that occurred in 2001
00:47:26
this is more of like a caveman style attack where okay I want a victim I have some some sexual perversions that I need
00:47:33
to act out and the only way I know to to do this to go about this is I'm going to
00:47:39
Club this dude and once he's knocked out I'm going to be able to do what I want to
00:47:45
him he has he has elevated his his his killing game let's say right by by at some point he learned you know
00:47:56
what's easier rather than having to trick someone and attack them why don't I why don't they not find out about the
00:48:04
trick until they're already handcuffed until they're already tied up or drugged and drugged yes so now what I can do is
00:48:13
I can get on these different dating apps or I can meet people and I can say look
00:48:17
I'm into I'm into bondage I'm into these types of games are you willing to play and the vibe that I get from some of
00:48:26
these surviving victims that we hear is that it sounds like maybe that wasn't their thing so much as it was his thing
00:48:36
but they were willing to play along you know they were willing to play along to the point where at some point they're
00:48:41
they're going crap this is no longer fun anymore we are not we are no longer having a
00:48:48
good time this guy tricked me this guy did this guy put me in this situation and now I've been tricked and I'm I'm
00:48:56
helpless or I'm defenseless yeah and yeah so he you know he's he's raping the these victims but that's where I believe
00:49:08
um or at least my gut feeling is saying because he took that too far that the murder is to cover up from that I don't
00:49:15
know if the murder is actually um part of the sexual experience you know I'm not an expert at
00:49:22
but this just what my gut is telling me well there's another unique thing that we see Bruce MacArthur do twice is on
00:49:29
two occasions he's involved in attacking an individual and the individual defends
00:49:34
themselves to the point of telling him that they're going to contact the police and Bruce MacArthur he does he gets the
00:49:42
upper hand by going to police first yeah and that's a that's a unique strategy there and people go well why the hell
00:49:50
would he do that well because he's hiding a lot of stuff this guy would much rather drive right to the police
00:49:57
department walk in with his hands up and go look I'm guilty of this and you're going to find out about it very soon the
00:50:04
reason why he does this he doesn't want them digging into his personal life too much yeah it's one thing to say that you
00:50:11
assaulted somebody or even sexually assaulted somebody and you can fess up to those crimes and take uh accept the
00:50:19
punishment that you get from those crimes easier crime to defend as well and also especially in this community I
00:50:27
mean this is a community that uh I think a lot of times law enforcement kind of stays out of um you know where there if
00:50:34
there was an attack in the heterosexual Community uh of this nature they would take them a little more serious now I
00:50:42
know that's very generalizing everything but we see this time and time again well
00:50:48
specifically regarding this case we have the two incidences where I personally believe the victims didn't didn't come
00:50:55
forward or they weren't fully Cooperative with law enforcement and that's not to blame them for anything
00:51:02
they don't know what else Bruce MacArthur is out there doing right um but what I mean by that is law
00:51:08
enforcement in in its own way has their hands tied behind their backs if they have victims that won't cooperate with
00:51:16
the investigation or testify against this individual now the thing here is too that we have the computer that was
00:51:24
found ultimately to kind of to kind of sum up this story for you Bruce MacArthur once
00:51:32
they decide that he's probably linked to The Disappearance of the several of these guys they they start finding body
00:51:39
parts they find body parts of individuals that have been dismembered and they are in planters these large
00:51:47
Planters remember we said Bruce is a landscaper he's an independent contractor or self-employed whatever you
00:51:53
want to call it and he works for many different people well some of these properties that he's worked for he's
00:52:00
Distributing these body parts amongst these planners at different people's properties now they were able to to do
00:52:08
many searches this has been a a concerted effort a big time effort to try to locate these missing men and what
00:52:16
they've ultimately found I believe I believe I could be wrong Captain I believe Bruce MacArthur to this date
00:52:23
March 13th has been chared chared with seven counts of homicide yeah and law enforcement believe there's more I think
00:52:31
one of the houses that he did work at um they found some at least DNA and it was
00:52:38
it was three different victims all scattered through like you know flower like you said flower pots
00:52:45
and flower beds and and things like that I mean I mean this guy is beyond sick well from my understanding is this that
00:52:54
they Rec covered body parts or they Rec recovered better to say the remains of seven
00:53:03
individuals my understanding is that they have identified six of these seven that we still have one male victim that
00:53:10
remains unidentified to this day yeah they actually uh took uh a picture and and and gave this uh to to the people of
00:53:21
Canada to try to help out with well that's that is a good topic to discuss because we don't know that that is in
00:53:29
fact the case so what we do know regarding this Photograph there was a photograph like the captain said
00:53:35
released to the public in hopes that people could identify the man in the photo yeah police have stated that the
00:53:42
man in the photo is is believed to be deceased right now where I calling to question that is we don't have anybody
00:53:51
saying that the photo belongs to the unidentified remains that we have found so where we have a situation where we've
00:54:00
recovered the remains of seven individuals and we now have a photo of a man that we're trying to identify yeah
00:54:09
the reason why I say that we don't know that the photo is of the unidentified remains is because police have stated
00:54:16
that photo was taken from MacArthur's computer and that they took that photo and they had to clean it up a little bit
00:54:22
they Photoshopped it to take out quote unquote artifacts that would have been seen inside that photo and the police
00:54:30
really didn't want to release this to the public however it was like a last resort we have to identify this man and
00:54:37
so the the big question here with Bruce MacArthur is ultimately how many people do they think that he is killed how many
00:54:45
how big could this number go and the reason being is you have an individual that we he remained under the radar for
00:54:52
so long he had victims that were were missing he's he's a and if he's put in their remains and flower pots then you
00:55:02
got to hope that somewhere you can find a list of clients and you're talking about years of working out as a
00:55:09
landscaper that you have to then go back and check all those properties mhm he's
00:55:13
a sophisticated organized killer is what he would be classified as when people would be investigating this as far as
00:55:21
the FBI is concerned yeah AKA piece of [ __ ] the thing so how far back can we trace this thing how high
00:55:30
could these numbers go I'm hoping my suspicion is that the photo is not of the unidentified remains that they're
00:55:38
not one and the same MH my suspicion is we're probably looking at eight murdered
00:55:44
victims here we we will only we will only find this out as the court proceedings continue and you know we're
00:55:53
here recording these episodes on the the 13th I believe Bruce MacArthur is scheduled to be back in court either on
00:56:00
the 14th or the 15th yeah I think like we said based off what information they had and they were running surveillance
00:56:09
on this guy for a while so they were collecting evidence as they're doing that and then you basically catch him
00:56:16
him in the act and then on top of that you have all these other survivors coming out they're giving you
00:56:21
information and evidence and on then you have this computer evidence and what else other evidence do they find that
00:56:28
we're not going to know about until the trial I mean this guy seems like a pretty open and shut case yeah I think
00:56:37
we're looking at a very strong guilty conviction here um I you know the police have taken some scrutiny because the gay
00:56:46
community around Toronto has said that Bruce MacArthur has been interviewed years ago regarding some of
00:56:53
these disappearances and the gay community have said that it's one of the best quote unquote Best Kept Secrets now
00:57:01
I don't know about that and and you know what here's the thing he is so tied to a
00:57:06
couple of these victims it's very likely that he was in fact interviewed yeah I don't know where police slipped up I'm
00:57:14
it's hard for me to say that they did um what I see here on the outside looking in is I do see some victims that were
00:57:24
leading living somewhat secretive lives which makes any investigation a little bit harder
00:57:33
difficult yeah if you're having uh relationships with different men and you're married
00:57:38
that you know to a woman that you might not want that information out and so then there's probably times that um
00:57:46
victims could have came forward to give them more information or when they were questioned they could have been um more
00:57:52
truthful from the beginning and maybe that would have stopped this but um but this guy was a cold calculated killer so
00:58:00
you know I don't want to throw them under the bus uh law enforcement I agree and from from the outside looking in
00:58:06
Captain I I I applaud their efforts from late last year up until the present before that I don't know much about the
00:58:14
investigation to make a determination or shame anybody either way well and I don't and again I don't know this for
00:58:23
certain but I think the gay community has a right to say look you know as far as our community goes they're at more
00:58:31
risk now some would say that you're putting yourself at more risk I mean you're putting yourself at more risk if
00:58:38
you're going home with individuals that you don't know if you're letting individuals tie you up or if you're
00:58:44
letting individuals handcuff you if you're letting individuals drug you this puts you at higher risk but but I do
00:58:53
side with the idea that um a lot of times uh homosexual communities are not protected as much as heterosexual
00:59:01
communities well the the only people I believe deserve any shame in this story as it unfolds is you know when doing the
00:59:10
research for this case came across several websites and I won't name them by name because I I didn't actually look
00:59:17
at them long enough to care to know their name but I'll just refer to this grouping of websites as the haters and
00:59:24
was you don't have to use your imagination too much to to get where I'm coming from but it was a lot of victim
00:59:31
blaming a lot of people saying see what they get for this that and the other thing um you know serves them right sort
00:59:38
of thing look we are on what episode 190 191 something like that we've we've talked about victims from every Walk of
00:59:47
Life nobody nobody regardless of who they are any regular citizen that's not walking around harming anybody or or
00:59:57
infringing on anybody else's rights right deserves to be victimized in any form or fashion whe whether it be theft
01:00:05
rape murder nothing like that the things that happen to these individuals are horrible they're unspeakable acts that
01:00:12
were committed by a [Music] monster this episode of True Crime garage is brought to you by unsane it's a new
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garrage and for exclusive savings on your first order use our promo code garage 20 at checkout first off I want
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to thank all the listeners for suggesting this as early as the middle of the last year thank you for being
01:01:28
aware thank you for bringing it to our attention we do listen to you that's right we listen to you this weekend is
01:01:34
St Patrick's Day everybody enjoy the basketball games everybody enjoy some time with friends and family uh toast a
01:01:41
drink yeah and but look we talked a lot about these dating apps and any listener
01:01:46
out there that is using one to meet people that's a great thing right build a relationship whatever but when you're
01:01:53
going to meet somebody from these apps make sure you send a friend um some information of the person or send a
01:02:01
picture of the person so then if your friend goes missing or or if you went missing that your friends would have
01:02:08
information to give to law enforcement take precautions that don't be stupid that's right all right and until next
01:02:15
time everybody be good be kind don't litter [Music] the Angie's List you know and trust is
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