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n [Music] welcome to True Crime garage wherever you are whatever you're doing thanks for
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listening I'm your host Nick and with me as always is a man who hates yard sales
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ladies and gentlemen the captain one man's trash is another man's trash it's good to be seen and good to see you
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thanks for listening thanks for telling a friend [Music] today we are still enjoying tiny
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European cars micro IPA from twice brw I love this beer but because of the low ABV of just
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2.4% I didn't think that this would be a beer for me but this beer is fantastic it's got a great lightly hazy flavor and
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you definitely get the IPA taste here I like this one for working out in the yard or tooling around in the old garage
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and and four kinds of hops which is great Citra Mosaic Simco and Amarillo garage grade four out of five bottle
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caps and here's a couple of folks that like to Tool around in the garage with beer in hand first up a big Texas cheers
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to Lauren in Kingwood Texas and last but certainly not least here's a big Ron Swanson please and thank you that goes
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out to Samantha Sea from Parts Unknown the Bermuda Triangle division Vision everyone we mentioned they went to our
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following us on YouTube subscribe today give a nice like And subscribe my friend
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and that's enough of the business all right everybody gather around grab a chair grab a beer let's talk some true
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crime around [Music] the investigation of course is going to lead us to some suspects they had some
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good leads early on we've argued already how great those leads were but what we do get is some suspects so let's take a
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look here captain at a couple of suspects in in this case we have inspector Campbell who initially said
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that he believed that the killer would be found within Jill's personal life Jill as we know was an attractive woman
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with a very successful job and career but she also had a significant dating history it was considered more likely
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that this would be the connection rather than her work or something else in particular because the suspects seem to
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have staked out her house waiting for her and then had shoved her to the ground and shot her at very close range
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so they're working believing that it's possible that this was someone who knew not only where she lived but somebody
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that had feelings for her or was very angry with her at the time of the murder you could make the argument if she was
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possibly seeing somebody else and then she gets engaged and they thought the relationship was going in one way and it
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went another way but my head jumps to the idea that she's a public figure and how many people watch her on TV and is
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there some guy out there that got fixated on her and do we have any claims of her saying hey there's a
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weird guy following me around or do we have any evidence of a stalker well there was certainly talk of that and
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they definitely looked at that but let's start at the center of Jill's life and kind of fan out from there okay so we do
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know some of the men that Jill had a history with one was a man by the name of Simon basil he was a game warden from
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South Africa she had approximately an 8mon relationship with him he is 6' 7 in tall so right away doesn't exactly fit
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the description of the smartly dressed man as far as height goes remember that was 59 to approximately 6 foot yeah I
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mean that's a tall glass of water that's a big difference in in size there so 6'7
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Ines tall this Simon basil he had moved to the UK to be with Jill before the relationship fizzled out
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and we do know based off of his job his occupation that he was very familiar with guns now we do also know that
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police interviewed him extensively and decided that they didn't think it was that bitter of a breakup or
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at least he wasn't bitter about the breakup and they had ruled him out and I'm sure I'm guessing here captain that
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there were more reasons than just that to rule this man out yeah there's we don't know for certain but he could have
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had a pretty solid Alibi again doesn't match the description he's from South Africa could have been in South Africa
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at the time yeah yeah on that date we also have her fiance Alan Farthing who we talked about a little bit on episode
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one The Two met on a blind date and announced their engagement at a very fancy party which was actually covered
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by at least one magazine police checked his schedule remember she woke up at Allen's house
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that morning police checked his schedule on the day of the murder and based on his whereabouts and schedule they ruled
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Allen out as well mhm there was a Russian Crim Lord who was rumored to have had Jill killed after she spurned
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him apparently these two had met while she was filming the an episode of holiday the TV show holiday they met in
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Cyprus it's unclear how he was ruled out but if he's a Russian crime Lord I'm guessing he specifically was probably R
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out because he likely wasn't even in the UK at the time of the murder somebody like that though a
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character like that Captain I have a hard time ever 100% ruling them out because if he's the boss mhm he could
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have sent somebody else to do his Dirty Work yeah that's probably more likely than maybe these other individuals
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sending somebody but all these individuals that we've talked about so far they make money yeah so it's not out
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of the realm of possibility that they hired somebody yep and I think that's something you're going to be faced with
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here based off of the success of Jill D those are the circles that she's running
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in we also have the boyfriend ex-boyfriend I should say Bob weaton he is 14 years her senior Bob had sort of
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been Jill's Mentor when she started out in the business he said that she was a total
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natural in front of the camera that's why the viewers were going to love her early in her career he believed that she
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needed a makeover to be a TV personality she needed more sophisticated clothing and hair and she needed to drop a couple
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of pounds so Bob helps her with all of this he's her Mentor at the time and then this starts and Sparks a
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relationship between the two they eventually became a live-in couple they were together for a long time 7 years
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before splitting up in 1996 but some people at their work said that Bob was controlling of Jill or at
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least that was their opinion M and Allan her fiance told the police that something that seemed to interest the
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police that Jill had given Bob 30,000 so money for those listening here that might be confused £30,000 that's a
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lot of dough he told the investigator it was to help with a down payment on his house while the two were actually still
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together that he didn't kill Jill over money we know that Bob was looked at extensively but ultimately ruled out in
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the end so I'm guessing that they purchase a property together she gives some of the money for the down payment
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at some point when they split up was there agreement that he's going to pay her back that's what I wanted to know
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was this an outstanding loan was he in the process of paying her back what I do know about Bob weaton I don't know how
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he spends his money or was spending his money at the time mhm but he was very successful too so if he's responsible
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he's not hard up for cash this may just be a simple transaction of while we're living together it's going to be our
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place we're both going to spend money it might to call it a loan might be a bit of an exaggeration yeah I think
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that gets confusing too because it's like okay so he killed her so he wouldn't have to pay her back but we
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have no indication that she was going to file a lawsuit or anything against him so there's no pending there's no like
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repercussion if he doesn't pay it back right away doesn't seem like a solid motive well and the other thing too is
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they had split a decent amount of time before Jill was killed yeah but some people
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hold grudges for for life then there was Jill's agent this is John Roseman police
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noted that Jill's phone reflected some calls between the two of them the morning that Jill was killed he told
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police John Roseman told police that he had sent some work rated faxes to her home fax machine and she told him she
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would grab them on her way to lunch that meant that John this puts him in a different category when we talk about
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Suspects this is a clear indicator that he would know based off of what he told police
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that Jill told him that Jill would be heading to her home on that morning police were interested in a book John
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had written about an agent so he writes this book it's a it's a fictional book and in the book the agent who he's
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writing about their their client is murdered in a shooting so this is going to sound oddly familiar to police when
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they're reviewing this guy but John points out to them that look I'm her agent she's very successful she's got
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two TV shows who she's the main star of these two shows she's the presenter in both of them he's pointing out to police
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if I kill her or have somebody else do it for me I'm cutting off a major source of income for myself we do know that
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ultimately he was ruled out so I'm guessing here I want to be clear to the listeners I'm guessing that maybe he was
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able to provide an alibi as well so all of the men that we just discussed here Captain they were all eliminated as far
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as what the public is concerned based off of the police their statements in their investigation this is by August of
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1999 the same year that she was killed do we know if they're giving any of these individuals polygraph test I don't
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know the specifics on each one of these persons there might not be you know law enforcement might not be forthcoming
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with that information you had mentioned a stalker and I think that that is probably on everyone's brains that is
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where certainly my thoughts went when first looking into this case so to talk about stalker or potential stalker this
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is from the BBC quote the presenter meaning Jill told police earlier this year so
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1999 at a reception to Mark the 10th anniversary of crime watch UK that she was concerned about her safety saying
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that last year there were reports that Mrs D had been stalked by a fan who had subjected her to frightening phone calls
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and letters now the documentary the Netflix documentary reports that Jill had dealt
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with obsessive fans and quote pervert male in the past the letters were upsetting
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of course but she Jill being the professional that she was she recognized that it kind of kind of went with the
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territory unfortunately and we do know from reviewing other cases this seems to be a bit of a chronic problem faced by
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female TV personalities and news personalities men who become obsessed with these ladies and some of them even
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creating fantasy relationships with news anchors in their heads the UK tabloids loved this stalker SL deranged
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fan Theory because it was Sensational and sexy and it sold newspapers police reportedly were
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looking into between 40 and 50 that's 40 and 50 fans who obsessively sent Jill male but if Jill had a stalker one
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wonders why the guy would shoot her I mean that brings up a whole other set of of
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questions and thoughts when you are looking at this case right because remember jod hen tro the news anchor
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from Iowa TV we believe she was abducted that everything app points to everything
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points to her being abducted in her case and police and the rest of us seem to all think that it was
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either in a obsessed lover or somebody that she knew within her Social Circle that wanted to have some kind of
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relationship with her or it was a stalker or slash obsessed fan of jod who and truth
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so you can look at this and say well would it be more likely that a stalker would abduct Jill dando rather than to
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kill her on the stoop in front of her townhouse or do we have a situation where Jill announces remember it was very
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public a magazine covered the engagement party the fancy party do we get this stalker who finally has pushed over the
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edge finding out that the love of his life Jill dando was marrying another man right and
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goes from stalker obsessive fan mode into a homicidal maniac driven by jealousy and rage and we've seen this
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with when somebody has mental illness that they create these scenarios and they create these fictitious
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relationships with people that they've never even met there's another suspect Theory let's call this one Mr James okay
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okay so police go down this rabbit hole with what is sometimes referred to as the Mr James Fiasco this is all laid out
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in the documentary but to put it in its simplest form on May 18th they did an appeal for tips on
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crime watch remember she's killed in April so the following month they do an appeal for tips on crime watch and they
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the show is now hosted by Jill's presenting partner and co-host his name is Nick they released the information
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that they were looking for the blue Range Rover seen in the area the day of the murder this of course resulted in
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zillions of tips but one caller Mr James named active criminals in a major drug trafficking operation he said that they
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were responsible for what happened to Jill this seemed as plausible an explanation as any given that gun
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violence was very unusual in the UK and when it did occur it was often in connection with drug gang violence
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police went all in on this digging into the drug ring using undercover officers and so on but it turns out Captain this
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was a bust Mr James was lying framing some drug dealers he was involved with to get them off of his back none of it
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had anything to do with Jill and that's what their investigation determined and if you remember we we did talk about
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eyewitness that claims he saw somebody staking out Jill's House yeah and it took several months but police
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finally found this man the one that was supposedly staking out Jill's house that
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it took till September of 99 he was a man that was a loitering on Jill's block simply because he was there
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for his job he he's a gas man old gas B how do they know the thing here is this is when
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police are kind of like throwing their hands up in the air and they're they're showing to the public their frustration
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with the case and their frustration with the scale of the investigation we talked
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about on episode one how large this and how quickly this investigation grew into
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a worldwide investigation and police are telling the public now look we are being
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hampered by people that are coming forward with to with information that's not important to the case but then the
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other the flip of that is they are telling the public look we've thrown out a lot of information that we've
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collected in our investigation the blue Range Rover the sweaty man the smartly Dressed Man the blue Range Rover almost
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getting a parking ticket the witness saying that they saw somebody staking out Jill dando's house
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and the other thing they're telling the public is when we tell you all of this information if you are that person that
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we're describing that a witness is described please come forward so we can eliminate you and quit chasing these bad
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leads right they had to track down this gas man who was there working on the street that day he didn't come to them
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they found him right they were openly telling the public about frustration of of and using him as an example if this
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individual would have just come forward early when we released the information we could have stopped working that lead
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so as far as the person's taking out her home police are back at square one yeah
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and again I think the other issue because she's such a public figure and you feel like she's a part of
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your life how how that amps up public awareness but those are also individuals that feel connected to her and feel that
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they need to try to help in any way possible and like you said I think that leads to too many leads and that leads
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to too many um people coming forward with information that might not have anything to do with the case so you're
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basically constantly chasing your own tail in 1999 forensic criminal psychologist Dr Adrien West consulted
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with police on the Jill dando case they were told that they should be looking for an obsessive
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loner well soon police would find one yeah and this loner's name is Barry George Barry George using the name Barry
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Balera at the time a man named in a tip is Barry Baler this is a tip that's called into
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police on the Jill dando tip line number and they get this tip early on in the invest tigation Captain it's April 27th
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the day after her murder the tip referred to balsera as a quote mentally unstable man end quote who lived in
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Crookham road so this is just about 500 yards from Jill's home according to the independent
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UK there was a second tip that came in as well also naming balsera and then there was a third naming him
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it took police ages to follow up on these tips because of the media blitz resulted in thousands of tips that had
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to be cataloged assigned and pursued and any one of them could easily have sunk into the bottom of the pile it seems
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like this ballera tip one two three of them fell to the bottom of the pile they would learn they being the
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police that Balera was an alias you said it Captain has his real name was Barry George mhm and this dude had quite a
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record 41-year-old George had an attempted rape conviction in March of 1983 from when he had attacked a female
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student he had also been convicted for indecent assault on a female office worker he had been arrested for
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impersonating a police officer shockingly in the early 1980s he had been arrested on the
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grounds of Kensington Palace wearing combat gear and carrying a 12-in hunting knife and a rope he was obsessed with
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Princess Diana and appeared as though he was there to abduct her so he's arrested
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wearing combat gear carrying a 12-in hunting knife and rope and they believed that he was there to abduct Princess
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Diana somehow he just receives a slap on the wrist from authorities for this and
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it's thought that he was somewhat written off as just being a c George was an unemployed loner who
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just wandered the streets and tried to talk to women further he had a history of being a pathological liar police
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learned that he had told women that he was in the Royal Air Force he posed as a stunt man named Steve
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major and filmed an attempt at roller skate jumping four buses so he's telling people he's a
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stunt man named Steve major and he films this whole setup of him going to jump over four buses wearing roller skates
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and I'm guessing they got on to this guy because we we now the public now knows the area in which this happened and then
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you go okay I'm familiar with this area and on by the way if you're familiar with this area you're also familiar with
00:24:27
this we yes but as said it's even a little more far strange than that so I I have to wonder here
00:24:37
Captain with this uh attempt of jumping four buses that he filmed was this the first use of the phrase epic fail
00:24:46
because he does not clear the buses and he broke multiple bones uh in his body so again at the time that police start
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looking at him for Jill D's case he's using the name Barry Balera which is implying that he's the
00:25:06
cousin of Queen's Freddy Mercury birth name last name Balera wow he also went by the name Paul Gad which is the real
00:25:16
name of pedophile singer Gary Glitter George was what was termed as a fantasist by psychologist this is
00:25:26
someone who lives in active fantasy life and may or may not act on those fantasies it seemed like George was in
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the former category he was living and acting on these fantasies and police what they want to do of course they want
00:25:44
to try to climb into this weirdo's head and see if his fantasies involved Jill dando yeah you don't want to jump In Too
00:25:52
Deep no but at the same time he could be a harmless weirdo that's like Grand Canyon deep yeah so
00:26:00
police Tracked Down Barry George at an unemployment office he denied knowing who Jill D was which seems a little
00:26:07
strange giving her popularity and notoriety as a news presenter and since he didn't know who
00:26:17
she was of course he's denying having anything to do with anything at all especially her murder police didn't
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let George go they began three weeks of of surveillance of his activities they're going to monitor this
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dude for 3 weeks of surveillance while they pulled together a search warrant for his home his home that was right
00:26:42
around the corner from homicide victim Jill D's house it was almost the Perfect Crime
00:26:59
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[Music] all right we are back talk hands in the air and remember for bonus content treat
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yourself sign up on patreon or through Apple subscription and cheers to you Colonel subscribe your earballs will
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thank you m M and speaking of thank yous how about a big shout out to Dave from Dak designs who sent us some lovely
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winter hats my favorite of the bunch says save lives ban the van so shout out to DC designs thank you for heck yeah #
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banth van thank you for keeping my earballs warm now Captain we get the search warrant for Barry weirdo's house
00:32:24
and there's no way around his nick name was uh Barry Barry Dingle there's no way around this this dude
00:32:32
was to say hoarder I think would be an understatement okay so his house was a mess with trash everywhere I mean
00:32:41
everywhere so they showed some photos on the documentary of his house and it almost
00:32:48
made it almost made me sick I I had to get up from the couch and and go straight look at something else for a
00:32:56
few minutes I had to go s through my closets there wasn't just trash everywhere dude there was piles of
00:33:03
feces and there are bugs alive and dead everywhere the guy was beyond disgusting
00:33:11
cozy so this is one except this is just one example of why it is better to be a fake detective like us garage guys
00:33:18
rather than a real one because if I were sent to the scene Captain I think I would have just turned in my badge that
00:33:24
day these detectives had to walk inside of the place walk around this place and basically hand sift through debris to
00:33:34
look for possible Clues now they did find some things of interest on the search they found a dark men's
00:33:45
Overcoat similar to the one that the witness described M they found a gun holster problem is they didn't find any
00:33:53
gun we have Barry George who would claim that he didn't own a gun just the holster they found four copies
00:34:01
of Jill D's Memorial issue of the BBC's in-house magazine this with Jill on the cover okay remember when they first
00:34:11
talked to this guy he claims he did not know who Jill was this is clearly a lie he owns four
00:34:20
copies of a magazine that she is on the cover of yeah but he's a hoarder I look I'm not saying he's not lying but also
00:34:30
we see this in many cases where people get obsessed with somebody after they're murdered they found lots of undeveloped
00:34:39
film uhhuh when police went and developed the photos they found 2,248 candid photographs he had taken of
00:34:49
random women on the street one of these women they confirmed lived next door to bill
00:34:58
dando they also found a photo of a man in a gas mask the man in the picture wearing the gas mask is holding a
00:35:07
handgun that a gun expert identified as an 8 mm bruny compatible with the casing
00:35:15
that was found at the murder scene do we believe that that individual is Barry I
00:35:21
would say I would swear on a stack of Bibles well he has one in the corner over thereover in feces covered in feces
00:35:30
Barry George says that it was not him in this photo yeah I don't believe anything
00:35:35
this guy says so he's arrested on May 25th 2000 by inspector Campbell's team so this is just a little more than a
00:35:45
year after the murder we finally get this this arrest news of the arrest swept the nation people have been
00:35:51
waiting for this for over a year police made a bit of a spectacle of bringing George in because they really believe
00:35:58
that Barry George had in fact killed Jill he checked all the boxes weirdo loner obsessive like guns creepy with
00:36:07
women and a history of violence and criminal activity he was interrogated at the police station George denied having
00:36:15
any involvement at all he claimed not to have any idea who Jill was again I believe that the magazines in his
00:36:22
apartment tell a different story he denied that it was him in the gas mask holding the gun in the
00:36:28
photograph he did say at some point when talking with police that he had a replica
00:36:35
gun I don't know exactly what he means by this replica gun toy gun fake gun uh but the police would say that
00:36:45
they thought he was acting Shifty and weird during the course of the interview I've seen footage of this guy and I'm
00:36:53
not trying to run to his defense but he stri me as an individual that would act Shifty and weird in any
00:37:02
conversation I agree or sit down conversation I mean so that might not be indicative of anything right with
00:37:09
hoarding tendencies a lot of that has to do with you know mental health issues or and
00:37:17
anxiety so if somebody is very closed off to the world and closed off to society the more people that
00:37:25
they're around the more shift they almost act well and remember that Overcoat that they found in his
00:37:31
apartment that was similar in description to the one as stated by the eyewitnesses of the person leaving the
00:37:41
scene of the murder they're going to run some test on this coat the lab results come in and a test of the
00:37:51
Overcoat they found that there was gun shot residue or gunpowder residue in the pocket of this
00:38:03
coat okay and this is coming from a man who says I I don't own a gun I don't have a
00:38:10
gun I've had a replica gun we talk about this a lot in cases timelines become so
00:38:16
important because when you have a suspect now you have to try to place them at the scene and place them at the
00:38:22
time of the crime so law enforcement is going to dig into Barry's timeline of the day of the murders yeah and what
00:38:29
they figure out here captain that on the day of the murder he had kind of shuffled around the
00:38:35
neighborhood and according to the independent UK that after the time of the shooting Barry George was seen he
00:38:44
had ran home and changed his shirt and then he first went to the hamers Smith and fham
00:38:52
action for disability Center at grisell Street mhm this is like 5 minutes a 5 minute walk from the murder scene he's
00:39:04
arriving at this location around noon there he argues with the staff who had known him from previous visits he's
00:39:13
there for approximately 15 minutes he then makes his way to the traffic cars taxi offices on fham Palace road again
00:39:23
just another short walk away arriving just before p.m. he managed to get a free ride to the colon
00:39:31
cancer concern on Ricket Street after his arrest as many as 400 women came forward saying Barry George
00:39:41
had followed them on the street even accosting some of them and speaking to them with foul language his former wife
00:39:50
reported that she had suffered domestic violence at his hands and this from the Independent UK quote he also had some
00:39:58
experience with Firearms he spent nearly a year in the territorial Army before being discharged in November of 1982
00:40:07
being taught how to maintain and shoot assault rifles and machine guns end quote he's arrested and he's held over
00:40:16
for trial on the murder charge his trial began in July of 2001 evidence presented by the
00:40:25
prosecution included a a witness named Susan Mays who testified that she was quote very sure that she had seen George
00:40:33
on Jill's Street at 7:30 on the morning of the shooting and she said that the man she saw was hiding his face there
00:40:41
was another witness who said that they saw a man of his description running away from the scene and that individual
00:40:49
testified that it could have been Barry George at trials especially homicide trials you do not want to hear words
00:40:56
like could have when you have people on the stand there were persons who testified that George
00:41:02
appeared to have tried to solidify a alibi two days after the murder he returned to the same office remember we
00:41:12
said he went to the the office and he's openly arguing with the people the workers there the staff and it was
00:41:20
thought by these persons who were testifying that he was trying to be seen and heard make note that I am here at
00:41:29
this time so close to the shooting evidence was presented about the particle so this is one particle of
00:41:38
gunshot residue this is The Gunshot residue that indicated that George was in the
00:41:45
presence of a gun when it was fired and that the gun was possibly put in his pocket afterwards that's the coat that
00:41:55
matched the description of the ones seen by the witness to be fair to Barry George that style of coat is an
00:42:05
incredibly common coat style worn by yeah maybe a million British men we also had the numerous women who came forward
00:42:14
testifying about him harassing them on the street saying that George called them
00:42:22
vulgar names grabbed my arm and so on it's very difficult because you go is this guy just mentally ill and so
00:42:31
obviously he would be acting suspicious or is this guy a murderer it is very difficult the the main defense that they
00:42:39
put forward for Barry George was in the papers and everywhere else for the most part especially when they were calling
00:42:48
an assassination or Hitman when you see words like that being thrown around often times this
00:42:56
case was described in the papers as the perfect crime and one that would require
00:43:01
meticulous planning right the defense was that my client is not capable of carrying out the Perfect Crime my client
00:43:10
is not capable of meticulous planning take a look at his apartment take a look at his actions and you will quickly
00:43:18
agree with that statement and I do agree with that statement for the most part what we do know is that the jury comes
00:43:26
back we get a 10 to one vote to convict so Barry George was sentenced to life in
00:43:35
prison this one's a tough one because I think a lot of the evidence that they presented you
00:43:42
could brush away pretty quickly well he has these four magazines and she's on the cover well how many
00:43:51
items does he have more than one item that he shouldn't have you know what I mean like we jokingly said he probably
00:43:57
has a stack of Bibles somewhere so and he just happens to live in the area and he is known to follow
00:44:08
women but it's we have no eyewitnesses placing them at the scene we have no murder weapon we do
00:44:19
have someone who says they believe they saw George there but remember this person does not know Barry George prior
00:44:25
to the day of the murder right right just simply saying oh that guy that's sitting in the courtroom I saw somebody
00:44:30
that looked a lot like him and again the words were could have been bar George hiding his face so this while he to me
00:44:39
looks like a great suspect on the surface right once we're viewing the evidence that's presented at trial I
00:44:47
kind of sit back and go this is a little more of a head scratcher than a 10 to one conviction vote sometimes when
00:44:54
there's such a heinous crime the public just wants somebody to pay for it it's we need an answer here but again I don't
00:45:02
know if this is enough evidence to convict him and I agree with you definitely not enough evidence to be 10
00:45:08
to one and i' would also think with the fragile mental state that he's in couldn't we get some kind of confession
00:45:15
here well and you're exactly right there Captain people watch these shows they fall Jill dando was easy to fall in love
00:45:23
with easy to go to turn on your TV and go look at that person she's like me she's my friend I watch her every day
00:45:32
and so in a weird way a lot of people I'm sure probably felt as though they had lost somebody very close to them and
00:45:39
it wasn't due to some illness or growing old it was to being murdered on the street like a
00:45:47
dog and you're right it's human nature to want that pound of Flesh and so I think that maybe that
00:45:56
steer this conviction a little bit what we do get is upon appeal they're going to
00:46:04
start to challenge this GSR the the physical evidence found in the pocket of that Overcoat that was
00:46:13
suggestive that he had been in the presence of a gun that was recently fired and then put into the pocket of
00:46:21
his Overcoat they reach out to the FBI the FBI comes back saying look we don't know exactly how reliable that evidence
00:46:32
is in fact we would suggest that it's not extremely reliable and I think that that was what
00:46:39
tipped the scales to convict this guy so his attorneys are going to use this as grounds to
00:46:49
appeal and to suggest that this was a miscarriage of justice so they go to in front of the judge they argue that one
00:46:56
part article of gunshot residue in the pocket of the coat found in George's house was ins insufficient evidence of
00:47:04
his involvement the police had never specifically tied it to the shooting or the actual murder weapon remember the
00:47:12
murder weapon was never found that's going to complicate everything as well the coat was examined a year after the
00:47:19
murder so you can't say 100% with 100% certainty that the GSR did not get to where it was found in the year that had
00:47:32
gone by after the murder you just can't you don't know what gun it came from or when it was placed in that pocket so
00:47:41
where do we go from here well based off of that they're going to be telling the judge look this this evidence carries
00:47:48
zero or neutral evidential weight and the jury should have been instructed as such or the judge should
00:48:00
have tossed out this evidence it's kind of like saying again a large part of that I believe the
00:48:09
problem being that the murder weapon was never recovered right this is going to lead to a second trial for Barry George
00:48:20
which would start in June of 2008 so remember by this point he's been in prison for approximately 7 years at
00:48:31
trial number two the prosecution is not allowed to even mention the GSR evidence which was a very important part
00:48:42
of their case what plays out at the second trial Captain is basically they are presenting the same evidence minus
00:48:49
that GSR evidence and now after time has gone by we only have one person on the stand who is saying I'm 100% sure that
00:48:59
I've seen Barry George on Goen avenue right and that person is saying I'm 100% sure that I saw Barry George on Goen
00:49:08
avenue on the day of the murder but it was 4 hours before the shooting so the case kind of fell apart
00:49:15
very quickly for the prosecution and then they start to call into play things like Barry George's IQ
00:49:24
and other things that they would suggest that he is incapable of carrying out or
00:49:31
masterminding this crime that took over a year with this large scale investigation lots of boots on the
00:49:41
ground to lead to an arrest so the jury acquitted George he's a free man after spending seven years in
00:49:49
prison wow his petition to receive compensation for his time in prison was denied given the UK laws provide that
00:49:59
only when new evidence emerges proving a wrongful conviction so he's acquitted but it's not like they're
00:50:09
saying oh he's acquitted and he's absolutely innocent they're saying he's acquitted because the evidence there's
00:50:15
not enough evidence to prove that he is guilty yeah if they found DNA evidence on her and they were able to test that
00:50:23
and prove it wasn't him then he could get a Payday yeah nonetheless the Jill dando case was
00:50:30
reopened shortly afterwards police were almost a decade behind in the investigation by this point the
00:50:37
reward was 250,000 the largest on record in the UK uh but sadly the reward money is
00:50:47
going to go unclaimed because it seems like whoever killed jel dando either they acted alone
00:50:58
and if they did they haven't told anybody and no one's the wiser but also just because Barry was acquitted doesn't
00:51:06
mean he's actually innocent exactly so the theories that we are left with here Captain
00:51:16
the Serbian warlord Theory this was raised by Barry George's attorney at his trial this is a little bit complicated
00:51:27
and I'm not going to drag everybody through all of the ins and outs of this but to simplify it at the time that Jill
00:51:34
was killed there was a war going on between Kosovo and Serbia NATO was involved bombing Serb targets as the
00:51:44
serbs were the aggressors in the situation this is from the Independent UK on April 6th 1999 20 days before Jill
00:51:52
was killed she had fronted a BBC Kosovo crisis appeal that raised more than 1 million pound in 24 hours for those
00:52:03
fleeing the latest round of ethnic cleansing in the Balkans okay so what could this world event mean for our case
00:52:12
here Captain well three days before Jill was killed British and US war planes bombed the radio television Serbia
00:52:20
building in belgrad killing 16 of the news organization's employees then the day after Jill's murder the
00:52:30
BBC's news head Tony Hall received a call at his office a man with an Eastern European accent said your prime minister
00:52:41
Blair butchered inocent young people we butcher back this Anonymous call would likely have been unremarkable had Jill D
00:52:51
not just been shot and killed days before so people were desperately trying to find meaning in her death and also
00:53:00
like you said assign blame for it find someone to blame that pound of Flesh so it made sense that the serbs
00:53:09
were angry about their journalists being killed so as the theory goes they killed
00:53:14
one of UK's most famous presenters yeah reportedly serbs in the UK were angry at Jill for
00:53:22
participating in that appeal her agent John Roseman said he received a letter to Jill that was vaguely threatening
00:53:30
about the Kosovo appeal she had done an investigator supposedly received a message that said dando was murdered by
00:53:36
a Serb Hitman in Revenge for the attack that NATO mounted George's defense attorney took
00:53:44
all of this and ran with it he named the Serbian warlord Arin as possibly ordering the hit on
00:53:52
Jill he claimed that the crimping done on the shell casing was also typically done in the Balkans and that other
00:54:01
journalists had been murdered in belgrad a couple of weeks earlier the prosecution dismissed the Serbian
00:54:09
warlord defense as unfounded the lead inspector Campbell stated that they had looked into it and
00:54:16
there was no evidence for any of it and said the call his agency received was a hoax the other part of this too was that
00:54:25
there was a BBC veteran foreign correspondent his name is John Simpson who was in belgrad in 1999 and in fact
00:54:36
had met Aran on the day M dando had been killed so some people had wondered if they
00:54:45
wanted to retaliate if they wanted to get revenge for their journalist being killed they
00:54:52
could have just killed this guy that had a meeting with the guy that they're saying masterminded paid for ordered the
00:54:59
hit on Jill and another theory which I think is a possible theory is that she was a host of a crime show and you know
00:55:07
what Captain there are a lot of people that will share your opinion because this seems to
00:55:12
be a very popular theory that she was either killed because of her role as a host of crime watch or there was a hit
00:55:22
taken out on her by somebody that wanted to silence her for hosting crime watch and of course this show is a show
00:55:33
that focuses in on ruthless criminals involved in the Underworld and that somebody in that
00:55:40
underworld wanted to take Jill out because of her work exposing the criminal element in Britain right or
00:55:48
possibly even as a warning to the authorities to not mess with certain persons in organized crime or organized
00:55:55
crime self the thing here is this Theory resulted in all of the past episodes of
00:56:04
the show being reviewed by law enforcement to see if they could find someone that would have a motive based
00:56:13
off of these shows and of course the show crime watch covered the mafia terrorist bombings and so on but it
00:56:20
seems seemed very unlikely that perpetrators of large scale crimes like featured on crime watch would take
00:56:30
the time to take out a newswoman who's just doing her job we need to keep in mind too what her role was Jill wasn't
00:56:38
an investigative journalist that's reaching out to confidential sources and turning up leads and she's not breaking
00:56:47
stories right she's not providing the break in a case to law enforcement she's simply reading off of a
00:56:58
teleprompter telling the story and I know that that's not always clear to everyone who may see the show but what
00:57:06
we end up with is law enforcement taking a hard look at this Theory and they walk
00:57:13
away from it kind of saying we don't really see anything here we're not saying that it's not a possibility we're
00:57:20
just saying that there's nothing that jumped off the page to us this Theory has never really provided any solid
00:57:29
leads for the investigation and like you said her being the host of crime watches is a
00:57:37
popular Theory but I think the most popular theory is that it was some kind of that she was killed by a obsessed fan
00:57:48
and we just might not know who that fan was yeah and we've talked about this one
00:57:53
at length already and I do want to remind everybody too that Barry George himself who was once convicted of her
00:58:00
murder and then later acquitted I would put him in this category right he would fall in this
00:58:07
bucket for me there's a few far out theories one that involves the IRA killed Jill that she was part of an
00:58:15
organized Ira hit but that organization typically publicly takes credit for their actions and they've never
00:58:25
officially claimed that they were responsible for Jill's murder we also looked at this other
00:58:32
Theory which seems to have come from comments of a former colleague that Jill was about to expose
00:58:40
a pedophile sex ring and or pattern of ademic sexual abuse and harassment happening at the BBC again this Theory
00:58:49
sounds interesting but the chances that Jill a journalist whose skills involve documenting facts
00:58:57
and documenting her findings when police looked into this she had they found nothing in her
00:59:06
possession of her personal items or her professional items that she had documented uncovering any kind of sex
00:59:14
ring or pedophile ring so if she was on the brink of exposing something a major crime
00:59:23
story where was the information well and also when law enforcement was looking into individuals close in her
00:59:31
life like her fiance why wanted the fiance say hey well you know she was working on this
00:59:37
this big story and this was going to change everything thank you thank you you are exactly right that she she told
00:59:44
no one they could find no one in her Circle that she had said that she was working on any of this I mean other than
00:59:53
this former colleague and and they weren't able to provide very good information so I think like some of this
01:00:00
it feels like they're really grasping but police unfortunately in a case like this and so many others they
01:00:08
are forced to chase down every potential lead they are forced to pursue these all roads here and it looks
01:00:18
to me from the outside looking in that they did their best job that they could pursuing all these roads so here's where
01:00:27
I'm sitting now captain in the garage which actually directly across from you in a garage smell nice today by the way
01:00:36
it's I think it's that new soap that you purchased the thing here is though my head is swimming a bit with this story
01:00:45
and with this case because a large part of me wants to go well maybe it was just Barry all along
01:00:53
and they just weren't able to get enough evidence against him having never met the man and not being a
01:01:01
psychologist or anyone with a great understanding of that science I can't say with any level of
01:01:10
certainty look his psychosis could be could explain away a lot of this right that a lot of his behavior and maybe
01:01:22
even some of the evidence that was presented against him at the trial that got a conviction
01:01:27
I understand questioning the reliability of the GSR but I have a problem with a guy that
01:01:36
I can put near the murder scene 4 hours beforehand who lives 500 yards away has a lengthy history of harassing women on
01:01:46
the streets taking pictures of women on the streets taking a picture of a woman who lives next door to Jill dando
01:01:54
finding four magazines in in his apartment with her on the cover and he says he doesn't even know who she is
01:02:00
finding a picture of him in a gas mask with a gun in his hand and a gun holster in his apartment and he tells me he's
01:02:08
never owned a gun only a replica gun which it could be a replica gun in that picture and he's just lying about being
01:02:14
in the picture why is maybe his psychosis that's why he's lying about being in the picture or maybe he killed
01:02:22
a woman and he doesn't want to admit that he's the man wearing the gas mask holding a gun in a
01:02:27
picture the end of the day yes that GSR evidence may be unreliable but what it is
01:02:34
reliable what is reliable about that evidence is at some point that Overcoat that I found in your apartment it had a
01:02:40
gun in it that was recently fired that that is fact man I don't know when that GSR entered the pocket of that Overcoat
01:02:49
that I found in your apartment but it did and it came from a gun that was fired and we talked about and a gun that
01:02:56
we can't find a gun that we can't find and we talked about how uncommon how uncommon gun crimes gun violence is
01:03:06
at this year 1999 in this location so much so that it went out over the Police radios that they were responding to a
01:03:15
stabbing so I think that Barry George finds himself in a very small suspect pool in my opinion when they were
01:03:24
looking at thousands and thousands of people because the investigation in the public reaching out supplying tips and
01:03:31
leads to the police had made it that they had to look at thousands and thousands of
01:03:36
people when really you're looking for a small group of people here so I sit here
01:03:41
and I'm not saying I I I don't feel extremely confident saying that it was Barry George all along
01:03:47
but I find him to be very strange I find his behavior his History of Violence to be something that I can't
01:03:56
look past the GSR I can't look past and even though there's not strong evidence there is evidence where a lot of these
01:04:06
other theories are just that they're theories with not much weight to them he was pretending to be somebody that he
01:04:14
was not having an alias that was implying that he's the cousin of Freddy Mercury
01:04:22
telling people that using the same name is Gary Glitter Gary glitter's real name
01:04:29
as an alias for a long time telling people that he was a stunt man so he doesn't just develop these fantasies
01:04:37
he's attempting to live them who knows what kind of fantasies he had about Jill dando maybe he hated her and despised
01:04:45
her because she was the real life thing that he never was and he saw her from time to time on the streets and the
01:04:52
hatred grew and grew and grew and guess what I'm always pretending to be somebody famous or On The Fringe of
01:04:59
being famous right and if I can't be somebody famous how about I kill somebody famous the only thing about
01:05:05
that though is you would think he would take credit for it at some point especially once they honed in on him I
01:05:10
agree the and who knows how far he would have really went with this air quotes attempt to abduct princess die but it's
01:05:21
also look it's it's very possible because of his mental state that he doesn't know for certain if he
01:05:28
did it or not yeah and I I'm with you it's it's well I look at him and my first thought is well maybe the answer
01:05:37
is just right there and it's been there all along and it was Barry George all along there were some haunting words
01:05:45
that were said about this investigation coming from the Chief Inspector detective
01:05:51
Hamish who we've talked so much about in these episodes and he says that the biggest question
01:05:59
perplexing investigators grieving relatives and viewers of Jill dando's TV shows who shot Jill D and why
01:06:11
obviously but it's been pointed out that it seems to find the killer that there's gaps in
01:06:19
the day that she was killed in that timeline that still need to be filled in and and inspector Hamish says quote the
01:06:28
reality is many a stranger homicide inquiry the answer lies within the first tranch of information though I feared
01:06:39
that there was something and we had missed it that somewhere in the beginning there
01:06:46
was a message or information which had been overlooked to me that's haunting to hear the detective stating that he he's
01:06:55
concerned all these years later that there was something in the beginning that before this thing got blown up and
01:07:01
blown out way out of proportion that there was something early on that would have told them who the killer was and
01:07:08
that they may have missed it it may have been overlooked the lead detective later
01:07:13
States three questions he could not wrap his head around from the moments after Jill's murder he says quote who was the
01:07:20
man who had been seen running away who was driving the blue Range Rover and who was the the sweating man I say this and
01:07:29
this is something that you've brought up you bring it up more than I do but I think it's something that it's cuz I'm
01:07:36
I'm super smart could play a huge factor in this case and it's something that doesn't seem to it's not discussed
01:07:43
anywhere you want to talk about something possibly being overlooked where did Jill's money go she was
01:07:49
successful she didn't have any kids she didn't have a spouse right you say follow the money I'm with you I on this
01:07:55
one I say follow the money on this one also another thing here is if Jill's fiance Allen is as successful as Jill
01:08:04
how does his situation change once he's married and who does that situation change for Beyond Allan Right
01:08:13
is is Jill killed because she's in proximity with somebody else with Allan the other thing too Captain I sit here
01:08:21
and I wonder in her professional life in her profession world who stood to get ahead to Leap
01:08:30
Frog if Jill dando was no longer around well she's in a very highly competitive field I I don't even think that matters
01:08:39
you don't have to follow the money on that one it's just simply there's people out there that are jealous hopefully one
01:08:46
day we will know the answer to the question who killed jando [Music] want to thank everybody for joining us
01:09:07
here in the garage each and every week and sharing the cases on social media and telling your mama and papa do we
01:09:13
have any recommended reading for the beautiful listeners it feels so good to be in the garage captain and of course
01:09:20
this week we are going to recommend who killed Jill dando the documentary on Netflix revisit the shocking 1999 murder
01:09:30
of beloved TV presenter Jill D which continues to mystify experts and the public this is a great watch and I like
01:09:39
the way that they broke it up into three episodes each under an hour so check out
01:09:45
who killed Jill dando on Netflix you can find that recommendation and many more on our website true Crim garage.com and
01:09:53
until next week be be good be kind and don't litter [Music]