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[Music] thank you welcome to True Crime garage wherever you are whatever you are doing thanks
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for listening I'm your host Nick and with me as always is a man that's still angry that Pluto is no longer considered
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a planet the garage is Stargazer he is the captain guess it's all relative it's good to be seen and it's good to
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see you all the way from the planet Pluto thanks for listening thanks for telling
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a friend [Music] today we are drinking flannel mouth by Blake's Hard Cider Company garage grade
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4 out of five bottle caps flannel mouth is made from 100 Michigan grown apples and you know I I love that I love
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everything about this and the worms they use a wide there's no worms they use a wide array of late season table and
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dessert apples this combination gives it a sweet flavor that finishes incredibly
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smooth and our fridge is full today because of these incredible Souls up first in Valley Claire UK Miss Lauren
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cheers next we have a thank you this says thank you for the bloody awesome podcast please visit Australia sometime
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cheers from Leah and Victoria Australia what bloody tears mate we also have Dave
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up in Montreal and breaking my unplanned theme of people outside the United States let's say hi and cheers to Brian
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in Central Illinois hi Brian next we have a beer recommendation that says try left hand Fade to Black much
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love from Stacy in Denver I love left-hand beers oh and I have I have two I have two thank yous here Captain
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saying the same thing so these are these are two people saying that they have mad
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pod Captain crushes this is Valerie in West Bend Wisconsin and Vanessa and Grove Heights Minnesota so I tell you
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to during the holiday a bunch of podcasters they take breaks uh we didn't know we're allowed to take breaks so we
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didn't take one happy Fourth of July everybody all right everybody gather around grab a chair grab a patriotic
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beer one of those good old American beers and let's talk some true crime [Music]
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thank you all right Captain we have to Dive Right In because we are about waist deep in
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this whole Madeleine McCann disappearance and investigation we already covered a lot of stuff yesterday
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and still a ton more to get to today we want to start looking at items and does it Point towards guilt or innocence and
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of who specifically the McCann family so what we'll do is we'll start the day that she went missing which or the night
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she went missing May 3rd correct so we have the timeline we discussed the timeline uh yesterday and but there's
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some things to look at inside of this timeline first of first of all the the number of times that the the persons
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involved being questioned seemed a little light to me Captain it seemed like you know that they didn't sit down
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with these key players to to produce this timeline what it was wasn't until seven days later yeah so on May 3rd they
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kind of got a rough idea of what happened happen but I don't know if they actually jotted down these notes or not
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they're all they also talked to some of the individuals that worked at the hotel
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but again they were more focused on the search which you know makes sense at the
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time uh again I think investigators should have looked at this as the worst case possible you know worst case
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scenario and also when you're showing up to a scene and the mother is saying hey
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the window was open somebody took my daughter make that a crime scene uh they didn't do that so there's some
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inconsistencies here now they didn't get the Tapas nines statements until about seven days later so that's a flaw in the
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investigation but some of the stuff with the Tapas Nine Stories don't line up with each other correct and some of that
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could be chalked up to well it was seven days later Annie just went through this
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world when uh 48 Hours of non-stop searching for this little girl one big problem that we have with the timeline
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itself is that it doesn't actually line up with what is give even information given to them by employees and staff at
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the resort itself right there seems to be a discrepancy that could go what about 30 minutes
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um what do you think about that just jumping off the page there before we get into the timeline itself the discrepancy
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between the resort staff and the the Tapas not again I believe that yeah you look for the girl you do a search but as
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you're looking for the girl you're possibly looking for somebody that took the girl
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so I get that but they should have locked down that scene for sure but as far as like the stories lining up I
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don't know if it points to a guilty or innocent for as far as the mccains go so to me it's like just some moot point is
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bad investigation I can't go back and fix it we can the in the these individuals were only question one time
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uh this case has gone on for 10 years they could have been questioned more often to see if maybe they remembered
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something differently so as far as the story is not lining up with the resort or with themselves I don't think it
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points to innocence nor guilt the thing here is you know you know I don't want to sound like
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we're laying it on the investigators too too heavy because you know the the problem is when you walk into a
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situation like this you can't go okay time out and freeze time and take a look at everything and and cover all your
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bases no everything is still happening around you if in fact what you could do is lock down that scene yeah correct and
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if in fact she's been abducted well she could be potentially getting further and
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further away from you and that scene just within minutes and hours of of your presence correct okay so the other issue
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we have here is and I'm going to point to something that we talked about last week when we covered the fifth nail one
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thing that I was really impressed with was the way that they handled that investigation and the thing that
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impressed me the most was we had several investigators coming out and saying you
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know what we're looking into something that there's no profile for we've never showed up to a home before and seen a
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family taken out and then we have abducted people from that same scene there's we've never seen this before we
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don't know how to react to this right and that's what you're doing in the early stages of an investigation you're
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ultimately reacting to the scene that you are finding and what you're finding within that scene so I think one thing
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that they did really well in the in the fifth nail investigation was they broke off into two teams and they said okay
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one team you're going to focus on the abduction finding the the children the other team you're going to focus on the
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crime scene and and this this murder situation that we found here right I know that's tough to do in a lot of
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situations but you know if you if you can walk into a scene and you can say we're not really sure what we're looking
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at here we don't know if this is an abduction or if something happened on site if you could break off into those
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two groups and focus and say you know what Mom and Dad and all of your friends we're going to have to sit you down and
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we're gonna have to talk through this while we don't worry don't worry we are not stopping you from finding your
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children we are we are covering our bases we're getting much needed very important information because one we
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want to find out if we can narrow down what time the girl was taken that's very important so Mom and Dad were asking you
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to sit down your friends to sit down we need to discuss this at length meanwhile
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there will be a lot there were hundreds of people that night there will be people out there looking for Madeleine
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while we cover this process and a lot of the reports were stating one of the things that makes them look guilty is
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that they were just kind of around Apartment 5A and they weren't actually looking themselves but again they called
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in authorities right they didn't it wasn't like that the resort had to call on authorities
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they asked for the the authorities to be there correct and so does that point to
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them being guilty or innocent neither because they might have just been doing what the authorities told them to do I
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think it points to their innocence and the fact that they did call for authorities and then when those
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authorities showed up and things didn't seem to like make sense because the mother stated right away look this girl
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was abducted and when they started saying well it's possible that she ran off she's going look there's an open
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window there's evidence that points to that she was abducted another key piece of evidence in this whole thing at the
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in the early stages of Investigation is that Kate McCain she's uh she would state that she wanted the FBI involved
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she wanted higher authorities because this town wasn't known to have a big law enforcement presence and so she wanted
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higher ups to come in and help now if you're guilty why would you want that they the other thing here Captain this
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might be something that the investigators were very inexperienced at I don't have the numbers in front of me
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but I read one report stating that Portugal has a significantly lower child abduction rate than a lot of other
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countries out there so might be something that is foreign to them so let's take a look at the Timeline real
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quick is there anything that that jumps off of the page immediately the first the first thing that I look at here is
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we have the kids quote-unquote day care center where you can take the kids to be
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dropped off they can be they can be watched by there's nannies at the resort right now so our first question about
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the McCann's Behavior would be well if you're going out to dinner why not take your kids
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to to this Center to to be watched by nannies by professional people and they can be picked up after I think most
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people that look into this case all pretty much agreed that what they did was uh you know some form of neglect
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and some some form of bad parenting yes I can kind of understand it and we differ from this because I've seen video
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footage where the mccains are sitting at the bar at the Tapas and they they take
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a video footage and they zoom in and they can see their go their sliding glass door from where they're sitting so
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would that make you feel a little bit more comfortable yeah but there's Street access to that sliding glass door that
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you're leaving unlocked and possibly the front doors possibly unlocked as well so
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uh you know it's it's definitely a form of neglect well and what the captain means by he and I differ on something
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it's about we we disagree on whether the mccanns could see the back patio to their apartment or not now I want to
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throw this out there in the cat this is actually I'm going to defend the captain
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not myself if you even though we disagree I watched some video footage that was presented as well as some
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photographs taken from an area of that Tapas restaurant right now I was told by the person conducting the video as well
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as the person that released these photographs that he was or they were positioned about where the mccanns were
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from his position you could not see their patio you could see the top of their apartment but this is why this is
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how I'm defending the captain once I saw the photograph and a video thing I didn't look any further so there could
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be other angles out there there could be other evidence to uh to go against what
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I'm saying here but what I found the limited amount the small sample size that I saw you couldn't see that area
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regarding the daycare itself Captain you know you mentioned that it was about 15
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bucks an hour maybe they were being cheap kind of kind of the way I lean here and I agree with you I I 100
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percent that there's negligence on the parent on the part of the mccanns right the thing here is I I question did did
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that daycare did it close at like 9 pm and this would be after they would they you know not a desirable time to return
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home uh the other thought here is a lot of people a lot of parents are big about
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keeping very small kids on a certain schedule and they don't like to they don't like to stray from that schedule
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too much I wonder if it's because it's past their bedtime they thought they could just simply put the kids to bed
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and come in and check on them from time to time um right a lot of that is neither here
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nor there because you know we can't go back and change that but the fact of the matter is as far as Behavior goes
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there's nobody in the resorts that ever said that Jerry or Kate McCain were acting strange in any way nor did they
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say any of the Tapas nine were any of them were acting strange now we have the we also have the
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situation of the last photograph taken of Madeleine um this being where the parents say that
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the picture was taken at almost 2 30 p.m uh the clock on the camera reads about 1
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30 p.m and then we can simply later state that the clock is off on the camera by one hour do you do you find
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any suspicious Behavior here or anything that points towards uh this would you know
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I think it's one of those points that people bring up in this case like that it like it's a big deal uh because we
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were talking about this earlier it's kind of like the Brandon Lawson case you feel like if you can solve one line then
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maybe you can solve the whole case right and I think any big case like this I mean JonBenet Ramsey Casey Anthony there
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becomes these minute details and if you can solve that then you can solve the whole thing so I think people that bring
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up this last picture uh look there's you know because they were trying to figure
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out the last time that that she's seen alive and so the and the reason why they're
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doing that is because they're trying to say well if we make this window bigger right right and she actually has
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a picture taken at 130 and not 230 that gives them less of a time for there to be an accident or for them to
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accidentally overdose her and then hide her body right there's a couple problems
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with that we have one of the tap is nine that claims that he saw her about 6 30 but there's also on record I think like
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five five thirty that people from the resort saw her so again this picture doesn't matter because we already have
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people seeing her afterwards and that leads us to our next thing here we have David Payne who just after 6 30 he stops
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off at the tennis court he talks to Jerry McCann for a second and according to what report you hear either Jerry
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asked David to go check on Kate and the children at their apartment in 5A or David asked him oh where's Kate and the
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kids and then decides to go up there it doesn't matter who asks who what in my opinion uh but like the captain said we
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have David Payne saying that he sees Madeleine during this time one thing that has fallen into question the lead
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investigator uh on this early in the investigation who has I should point out has been removed as far as being the
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lead investigator in this um he points out a major inconsistency here he states that he has some reports
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from the Tapas nine stating that David Payne was at the McCann apartment for close to 30 minutes where you have Kate
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McCann stating he was there for more like 30 seconds or one minute he's there for a very brief time period again a lot
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of these details that they're asking him about come seven days later after 48 48
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Hours of crazily crazy is that even a word crazily that's I just made I'm gonna stick with
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that crazily looking for this three-year-old child that's on the vocab test and the computer yes and pewter and
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pewterland um sorry about that but the thing here is and look it's it's Fourth of July
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we're a little loose sorry I think to me to me this does matter because after this guy leaves after David Payne leaves
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well we only have the mccanns after that saying that Madeline's okay and that she's at the apartment so to me this 30
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seconds to 30 minutes does matter uh the problem I have here is why can't you just why can't you just
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tell me that you know there should be there should be a way to figure this out you if you have multiple people saying
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one story is true compared to the other then you would likely believe that that story a is is more believable because
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you have other accounts of that same well again okay here's why it doesn't matter that much one you should question
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them again but they didn't uh they should question them multiple times they should question that night
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they should question the next day they should have they should have seven days of stories and and then look some of
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that stuff is going to change but all that changes the time window is by 30 minutes so it either goes from four you
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know maybe four hours to three hours I know I just said 30 minutes but it's it doesn't change it that much I mean we're
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talking about maybe he sees them at 6 30 maybe he stays till seven so then the police are called about 10 o'clock right
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so you got a three hour window that something happened and then you're gonna have to and that you're gonna have to
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hide this body now mind you that at 6 30 when he's talking with um Jerry McCain he has an hour-long
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tennis lesson so he's not even getting back to the room for another hour right so his tennis lesson would have started
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at six and it would have finished at seven so he would have he would have been returning depending on Whose story
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you believe uh he would be returning right around the time that David Payne would be leaving if in fact David Payne
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was there for approximately 30 minutes right and does this matter maybe it matters because it changes as far as the
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timeline goes but it doesn't Point either innocence or guilt towards the mccains so we have a
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situation here Captain where we have Jerry and Kate McCann they're arriving at the Tapas restaurant at approximately
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8 35 it says that they are the first couple of the group to arrive and now we know
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that all of these group members are leaving children behind in their rooms and checking on them periodically now
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I've heard you know usually when I when I've talked about this case with with friends and and whoever in the past you
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know because this case has been so popular it's not the first friends it's not the first time that it's been you
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know brought up as far as over drinks right uh but the question I first hear people say not asking me indirectly just
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asking everybody is who goes out to dinner and leaves their kids at home well in this situation
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all of them did every every parent in the group did the only person there without children was was a grandmother
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well and mind you that you know if you if you have a sick feeling about this to make you feel a little more sick they
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did this this is the sixth day of doing this right the sixth night there's there's
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conflicting stories of that but this was about five nights yeah this was definitely not the first time at the
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very least it was the fourth or fifth time that they had done it on the trip it sounds like it's very possible they
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did this every night that it was a very routine trip that they you know they did
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a drop the kids off at the daycare during the day went out did some things spent time with the family dirt you know
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afterwards and then it's kids go to bed parents go down to the tapas bar and restaurant to eat and drink right now
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but just hear me out on this though I mean think about somebody that had you know decent house right you've been to
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Buddies they got a decent house they got a pool and I was just hanging out with my buddy the other the other week uh so
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he has a nice house sliding glass doors opens up to the pool on the other side of the pool there's a little like bar
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area like I don't know what you want to call it it's basically like a little Shack that he he made right now if it
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was at somebody's home same distance you know 50 meters nobody would bat an eye you know they'd say oh yeah they're out
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by their pull bar drinking and their the back door wasn't locked because they could see it and the front door were
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assuming is locked and then the kid goes missing I I'm batting an eye just because of the children's age I think
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it's it's a little young it's a little early for that but look I'm not going to tell anybody how to raise their kids I'm
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just saying I wouldn't have done well and I believe one of the groups they actually had
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um now not the mccains but one of the other sets of parents had actually a baby monitor so look I I think it's
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definitely you know form of neglect and if the mccains could go back and do it all over again do you think they would
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do that heck no here's where we have our first problem in my opinion you know we
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those are all been items that have been discussed and and really been debated uh
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to to the end right um so far I don't see anything pointing in the the direction of guilt or not
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guilty um here's where we have our first problem in my opinion 905. uh Jerry McCann returns to the
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apartment I said during our timeline yesterday that he returned to the Department through the unlocked patio
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door to check on the children now one the big problem here is that this story has changed that on one occasion on at
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least one occasion Jerry reported to the authorities that he in fact went through
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the front door uh which which he States was locked at the time went through the front locked door to check on the kids
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and on another occasion says that he went through the unlocked back patio door well let me explain this like I
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said they they did this probably five to let's just say five to six nights right
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so the first couple nights what they did was people would take turns checking on
00:24:18
each other's kids but they all locked their doors and so they had to have the keys to get into the doors right
00:24:26
so when you're asking somebody seven days later he's not remembering one night he's remembering multiple nights
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so and again I think the McCain's even said that the first few nights that they're there they actually didn't go
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through the sliding glass door uh they were actually going through the front door correct so again
00:24:49
inconsistencies of stories but uh and the the police always point out that you know the the mccains say that they're
00:24:56
going through the sliding glass door but all the other parents are saying that they're going around to the front of the
00:25:00
building well the ones that were going around to the front of the building were the ones
00:25:04
that were on the second floor because that's how you got to the second floor so there's inconsistencies there right
00:25:10
because you can't enter through your patio that's on the second floor it's a balcony right so is it is it
00:25:16
inconsistent is he being a nefarious I don't think so I think he's just misremembering but when it comes down to
00:25:23
it what it comes down to is what he says when he opens up the door you know the door was opened up a little bit he looks
00:25:29
in he sees the twins but he can't necessarily see Madeline well that's only possible if you're coming through
00:25:36
the back of the room and not through the front door because if you open up that front door you would have saw her first
00:25:43
well because she would be the first person in sight on the eyesight line the thing here is Captain uh we have we
00:25:51
have an issue because one would ask well why would you why would you stray from going through the front door well and
00:25:59
and then change to the back door the the thing here is it's a longer route you know and it they said that they were
00:26:06
worried about noise about waking the children that could be it but it's also a longer route if you look at the route
00:26:12
taken to enter the patio compared to the front door you almost feel like with the
00:26:18
front door you almost feel like you're walking out of the resort leaving the resort you're be on the wall you're now
00:26:25
traveling along the street to get up to that front door where if you are going through the patio you pretty much feel
00:26:32
like you're staying within the walls of the resort and it's almost about half the trip when you break down the time to
00:26:40
get from you know comparing the two the patio is about half the trip well right and if you go through the if you go
00:26:46
through the back door uh back sliding glass door you just have to peek in to the room if you go in the front door you
00:26:54
have to actually go through that room so you can take a leak or whatever Jerry says that when he's in there he sees
00:27:01
that the door is now open quite a bit more than what he thought that they had left it when they went to dinner the
00:27:08
other thing here too is he would later report you know that he he believed that he felt some kind of pres looking back
00:27:16
he says he felt some kind of presence in in the apartment I believe he did yeah um the thing here is well what about the
00:27:26
window and I know we I know we kind of come to that at the end of their timeline but this is something we should
00:27:31
keep an eye on and monitor as we go through the timeline right because right now Jerry's not reporting the window
00:27:38
being open right right now Jerry's not reporting that the door to the bedroom blows shut because he created some kind
00:27:45
of draft depending on which way he entered the apartment okay well the window to the wall
00:27:52
um let's get into the window right after this quick beer break [Music] all right welcome back to the captain
00:28:17
the colonel show Cheers mates all right let's not get to the window yet because there's something we got to get to the
00:28:24
window first right okay so let's say let's go with this at 9 30 this is when Kate is supposed to go back up to the
00:28:31
room and check on the kids instead we have Matt Oldfield and Russell O'Brien they are leaving the table to go check
00:28:38
on children as well so Matt then offers that he will check on Kate's kids while he's away from the table which is not
00:28:46
going to be very hard because he can be told that the patio doors are unlocked and you can just go in that way Matt and
00:28:52
check on the kids right we have some problems with Matthew oldfield's statements and one of them
00:29:00
being that he doesn't physically see Madeleine McCann he states that he kind of just you know kind of peeked into the
00:29:08
door he he thought the door was open more than than what he was told it should be you know but that at the time
00:29:14
didn't matter anything to him he didn't know that the mccanns left the door closed he didn't know that Jerry found
00:29:19
the door open and then closed it more so he he notes that the door is open he just kind of peeks in he sees the twins
00:29:26
sees the twins he also just kind of listens with the old ear don't hear anything nothing nothing seems wrong
00:29:32
here everything's good I gotta run and check on some other kids and then I'm back at the restaurant
00:29:37
the other thing though that he points out here the thing that I think is very important is he also even regardless
00:29:44
whether the door is open slightly ajar all the way open whatever he doesn't he at no time gives any evidence to point
00:29:52
that the window is open at this time either right so no evidence from Jerry or Matt that the window is open well and
00:29:59
there's no evidence of the window being open because there's multiple times that
00:30:04
different people had to walk around to the front of the building so by them walking around to the front of the
00:30:09
building maybe they looked over but they would have noticed if you know because there's this metal like little tiny like
00:30:15
what we talked about like almost like a garage door on over the window it has to
00:30:20
be open I think people wouldn't have noticed that if they walked by the front of the building right so the thing here
00:30:28
though now we have 10 o'clock and Kate goes to check on the room and she states definitively she's got that she's got
00:30:36
that little piece in there about about the door slamming shut or the door blowing shut and I'm assuming that it's
00:30:44
because the window is open and she's created some kind of draft by opening up the patio doors or whatever creating a
00:30:51
draft causing the door to shut we've all experienced that before well Ray and and
00:30:56
look to be fair to these parents I mean look any time that you'd have to check on kids you know you know like you know
00:31:04
my my stepsons used to sleep upstairs by my room if I would go to the bathroom upstairs maybe I would like you know
00:31:11
peek in maybe I wouldn't see both of them but I kind of listen in you know so that's not uncommon you know and so I I
00:31:19
I assume this is why it's a big deal about the door moving it's because I think when Kate went in I think a lot of
00:31:26
these trips that the the parents were making to check on their their kids or it was also I gotta use the restroom you
00:31:33
know we're drinking I gotta take a pee right right and so I think sometimes you know it's just like when Jerry says well
00:31:42
I went in but I I don't really know if I or when they say when they sorry I'm a little discombobbied
00:31:50
now I can't even speak okay I'm just going to keep going screw it um so I think some of them just went in
00:31:57
to take a pee and then they're they're gonna listen right and I think this time this is why it startled her is because I
00:32:04
think she wasn't really going to check in on him I think she's just going to take a leak
00:32:09
right right right or or Give a listen or walk by the door right and that would that would suffice you know but then all
00:32:17
of a sudden the bedroom door shuts and then she's like oh what's up with that so what's up with that so she opens up
00:32:26
the door and notices the windows open right so let's let's let's not give our opinion
00:32:34
yet on this situation right because I want to move on to the next thing she then flees she then FL after looking
00:32:41
around the apartment looking for Madeline she then leaves the apartment running back to the restaurant to say
00:32:49
that and there's some different accounts of what she said but the one that is is
00:32:53
repeated every single time is that she says that they have taken her or you know she's basically stating that
00:33:01
they've that she's been abducted Madeline's been abducted so now that to me I've never liked that
00:33:09
statement I always thought that that was a strange thing for her to say and you and I have had this conversation before
00:33:15
and you point out a very good thing there where you say well it's only strange Nick to say that until you're
00:33:21
the parent and you've seen the window wide open in the same room where your daughter was once sleeping so I get that
00:33:28
I'm on your side with that I have a little issue of her running to the restaurant I don't know that that was my
00:33:36
that would be my first go-to um but again I've never been in this situation I don't know how I would react
00:33:42
one thing that I don't like as well is is it seems that she left the the smaller children alone in the apartment
00:33:50
right to go to the restaurant to report what she believes she she found right again though we're talking about a
00:33:57
pretty small distance you know uh one could argue that she could have actually stayed on you know the balcony and just
00:34:05
yelled yeah she could have shouted it from the patio and you would think you you could hear it from there
00:34:10
um and also they they had cell phones so you could have called or text I think that would have been if I could put
00:34:17
myself in that situation if I had to be in that situation now I have the benefit
00:34:21
of sitting here and thinking about it however I think that would be the go-to for me to run out on that patio and just
00:34:27
shout it from the Mountaintop and hope that hope that the rest you know Resort staff or your friends and my friends and
00:34:34
family hear me um and and all come running yeah or I mean again the thing that I
00:34:42
haven't thought much about so you you've brought it up is that she did leave her
00:34:47
twins that's the thing which are way younger yeah remember when we covered the the Columbus case where where the
00:34:54
man said he was in the woods with his wife and small child and he went ahead of the group and he discovered a man
00:35:02
beating a woman to death and he he decided to run out of the forest and run to a local business and call the police
00:35:10
right to me that went unsolved for many many years and I always thought found it
00:35:15
to be very strange that he would leave his seemingly defenseless wife and small child behind where this Maniac is right
00:35:22
and then run out and and call for help where yes maybe the window open points to her that that the person has fled she
00:35:30
did check the apartment and didn't see anybody in the apartment I but I think at that point they weren't airing on the
00:35:37
side of caution before when they they left the kids alone I would think by this point though you are snatching up
00:35:42
those two small children and you're taking them with you to call for him right possibly or just I'm going to run
00:35:48
out there and maybe she didn't make it all the way to that maybe she only made it 20 meters you know and then they came
00:35:55
running also this would this would actually make sense on why the the window was actually
00:36:00
shut because you're looking around and you can't find your daughter and now you're putting two and two together and
00:36:06
you're going wait a second I think somebody came through this I think somebody came through this
00:36:10
goddamn window right so then you slam the window shut and then you could take off running hey they they've taken her
00:36:16
you know I need help so that would explain why you know when the detectives show up and and other people say well
00:36:22
the window wasn't open right um now let's just go over the evidence on the window they did take fingerprints
00:36:28
the only fingerprints that they found on the window or anywhere by the window was
00:36:33
from Kate right again would make sense because she was in that room she was in that Apartment 5A for you know seven or
00:36:42
six days at that point uh I don't think they even took um forensic stuff or fingerprints for a
00:36:49
long time afterwards so which is odd another you know fail by the investigation well
00:36:58
the thing here is Captain let's discuss this window because it's been said that the window could not be it's been said
00:37:06
that the mccanns stated that the window was closed and the shutters were closed and then you have some people stating
00:37:13
that you could not open the shutter from the outside and I I'll describe the shutter it's metal slats it like the
00:37:20
captain said it looks like a small garage door that would drop down and cover the entire window itself it's
00:37:28
controlled by a by what people say a strap or a cord inside it's like a police system pulley system that would
00:37:34
that would open up this tiny little garage door and then it drops closed yeah you want to think of this as like a
00:37:41
like a Chicago storefront or a New York storefront where they have the metal that slides down in front of the
00:37:47
storefront so every morning they have to lift it up you know and then you see the
00:37:51
storefront and then you pull back down when you leave for the night here's the look at 10 years of talking
00:37:58
about this case 10 years of people looking into this case all they had to do was test it they tested it they had a
00:38:04
guy in his 50s maybe 60s Detective all you have to do is go up put a little bit of pressure on it
00:38:12
and it lifts up a little bit and that allows you enough to open up the window and then you put your hand
00:38:18
through and pull on the pulley and it goes up look yeah but I've seen I've seen it on
00:38:24
video so but for this to work a couple things have to happen when I first looked at that window and looked at the
00:38:30
shutter I was very impressed because I'm like okay this is not just a shutter to
00:38:33
keep the lights out this is a shutter security a security shutter it's a security issue so the thing here is when
00:38:42
I first looked at it I thought you know what that to me appears to be a shutter that you could I believe you could open
00:38:48
it from the outside just by appearance and not even having seen that test conducted right my next thought was that
00:38:54
if I were to force that shutter open that I would cause significant damage to it or a good deal of noise
00:39:02
um that test that you showed me it appears that they didn't have to create damage to the shutter and it didn't seem
00:39:09
to create much noise at all no more than it would if it was normally going up or
00:39:13
normally going closed the issue here though is to get your hand inside the window then the window needs to be on
00:39:21
locked correct that the latch lock would have to be unlocked for one to get their
00:39:26
hand in to pull the thing the remainder of the way up yeah but I think this goes
00:39:32
out to the investigation they didn't test this stuff early enough they didn't ask the right questions about this
00:39:38
window enough I mean I don't know if the McCain's had this window open up earlier
00:39:43
or not right and that's the thing that's the thing they were were asked from the
00:39:47
get-go you know what was this window closed and was it locked and the McCann said you know what we can't state for
00:39:54
sure we can say that it was closed but we can't say definitely that it was locked and second of all you know when
00:40:00
they interviewed the staff the resort staff the cleaning crew said you know it's not uncommon for us to come into an
00:40:07
apartment and open up the windows while we're cleaning and then close them before we leave therefore the mccanns
00:40:15
could have never even operated the window and it was left unlocked by by somebody that stayed there previously or
00:40:22
the hope the resort staff I think I swallowed a bug um yeah and we know that this security
00:40:30
system didn't work too well anyways because these these little uh garage doors if you will are not on the
00:40:39
Windows anymore they actually Place bars on the Windows yeah and I'll tell you what that's the
00:40:45
selling key to me that's what sold it for me Captain I you showed me that test and I thought I might be wrong about
00:40:52
this but what sold it for me with having a background in Property Management I know that that's extra it's so much of a
00:40:58
budget business you know you work within the budget as far as improvements go of
00:41:03
your property right and therefore if you're doing a good job you never pay for any improvements that are not needed
00:41:10
so buy the resort placing bars over this window that tells me that the people that own the property that run the
00:41:18
property and operate it they believe that you can open up those shutters in those windows from the outside and I
00:41:23
just think with all like I said all the evidence and the little tiny details of her stating that the door shut which you
00:41:30
know you'd think that her coming in the back door would create some kind of vacuum or something or some kind of
00:41:36
current to make the door shut so with those little details to me that points to them being innocent and that this was
00:41:43
abduction yeah I'm with you the the the things regarding the window points to stranger abduction to me
00:41:51
um I but I'm going to back that up by saying that Kate's behavior during that period points to uh to their to them
00:42:01
being guilty to string I I find her I find her behavior to be strange so at by this point up until 10 o'clock it was
00:42:08
just abducted I understand that but but up until 10 o'clock I have nothing pointing me in the direction of guilty
00:42:15
or not guilty now we're sitting here at 10 o'clock 10 30 and I'm I I've got one strike for guilty and one for not guilt
00:42:22
it seems like with all these big cases you know in the True Crime world there's always like one little thing about each
00:42:29
case you know like the you take West Memphis Three for example I I have a hard time getting around the fact that
00:42:35
there's an eyewitness that says Damien Eccles and his girlfriend were coming out of the woods that night hard time
00:42:41
getting around that um doesn't mean that I think he's guilty but I have a hard time getting around
00:42:47
that now with this case we got these these cadaver dogs we got these blood sniffing dogs I have a hard time getting
00:42:54
around some of this yeah these are like specialty dogs and when I say that because they they have their own unique
00:43:01
specialty that they do so we have two we have two dogs right we we have uh Eddie
00:43:06
he's the cadaver dog he's the one that can locate human remains and it's and it's just human remains it's not you
00:43:14
know animal carcasses or anything like that then we have Kila she's the blood dog and the way that I've heard it
00:43:21
described and read it in reports is that she can detect the smallest amount of blood in different locations now how do
00:43:30
they these these two dogs not only do they have their their Specialties that they're good at right but they also have
00:43:38
an extremely good track record and I think it's something like over 200 cases where these dogs have been right well
00:43:46
how do they prove that the dog is right well the dog whether it be the cadaver dog or the blood dog hits and alerts the
00:43:52
Handler that there's a cadaver or blood there later even if they can't they can't see the blood they can test for it
00:43:59
and they can find traces of blood there thus backing up that these dogs have a good track record right but that's also
00:44:06
like saying uh you know LeBron James is the best because he's won uh 200 basketball games well how many did he
00:44:13
lose you know what I mean right nobody's perfect nobody but nobody's even stating
00:44:18
how many there they've been wrong on I can't find anywhere but so here's what here's what happens is a long time
00:44:26
afterwards over 70 days right yeah so this would be in July and remember she went missing in early May and so they
00:44:35
bring in these dogs and they're going to go through Apartment 5A and uh amongst other places they they're
00:44:42
going to venture down to the beach and throughout the resort but it the troubles for the mccanns start in the
00:44:48
apartment yeah because what happens here is and you can watch these videotapes yourself on YouTube
00:44:55
but every now and then it seems like the dog handler makes like a little you know
00:44:59
arm motion and then the dog start barking about something uh and the dogs end up barking by the uh by by the in
00:45:08
the family room by by the couch right and uh then somewhere in the bedroom so well let me describe these two dogs
00:45:19
for you because not only not only do they have their their specific uh job dudes but they have different ways of
00:45:27
alerting so the way that I understand it Eddie remember he's the cadaver dog he is trained to only bark when he believes
00:45:36
he's detecting a cadaver you know human remains but he will he will get to a spot that he thinks that he's detecting
00:45:43
that and he's just gonna get bark but you know he's gonna rap rap rap rap rap rap rap now the other dog has a hound
00:45:49
dog sound has a different method okay she Kila when she believes that she's detected blood
00:45:56
um she will do what I what I believe is called a like a silent alert where they where she will put her nose or her face
00:46:03
on it in the direction of of what she believes that she's detected so we have two different behaviors by these dogs
00:46:11
now I will say I watched I watched the video footage from this uh and I was I was I was a little confused I didn't
00:46:21
notice the the Handler the strange movements by the Handler like you said there's there's people that shoots his
00:46:27
arm out there's people that are saying that the handler was directing the dogs to behave a certain way I saw that
00:46:34
outside of the apartment and we'll get to that but within the test conducted in the apartment I definitely saw that the
00:46:42
dogs seemed to be interested in the couch they were also claimed that they were interested in a stuffed animal of
00:46:49
Madeleine's that they were interested in some clothing this belief uh belonging to Kate
00:46:55
um and the thing here is though I didn't see any definitive behavior from the dogs that would lead me to believe that
00:47:03
I saw multiple times where they would walk past the the clothing they would walk past the stuffed animals they were
00:47:10
the dogs were other than the couch seemed to be behaving strangely and they were hitting on the couch and as you
00:47:17
said it was the the area behind the couch that they seem to be really honing in on right and but then they're also I
00:47:24
mean the cadaver dog went pretty nuts in the bedroom yeah um so look I mean we could go through
00:47:30
every little my new detail of that video watch it if you're interested basically
00:47:35
what the police because of these dog because of these dogs and how much they've been right the the police
00:47:41
basically the Portuguese police came out and was like you know what here's what's
00:47:46
happening what we believe is that there was an accident maybe from the couch to the window she fell broke her neck or
00:47:53
whatever and you guys covered this up because you know we have blood samples now uh we got DNA and we're going to
00:48:01
test to see if there was a a dead body in this uh in this room so that's what they came out and then
00:48:10
and that's that's the that's the direction they went into this investigation they stopped thinking
00:48:16
about an intruder and said look we got now we gotta um you know get these get Kate and Jerry
00:48:23
to be found guilty of this but the dog the cadaver dog also hit on the car now this was a rented car and we haven't
00:48:31
discussed the rented car yet but they placed several vehicles and I don't just mean like 20s yeah 20 30 vehicles in
00:48:39
this in this parking garage and they spaced them an even amount away from one another and the dogs checked
00:48:47
all of the the vehicles but they hit on the McCann's vehicle this is a rented vehicle they are they are detecting some
00:48:56
kind of smell or hitting on smells coming from the trunk area of this vehicle the strange thing though was
00:49:03
this was a vehicle that they rented 24 74 days after she went missing after she went missing so so their Theory then
00:49:13
became that well that's no big deal because the the McCain's hitter body thing when they came back to Portugal
00:49:22
they rented this vehicle and then they put her in uh to the vehicle and then they drove to Spain now they actually
00:49:29
did drive to Spain the first day to put flyers out for their missing for their missing child but they also
00:49:37
had a film crew with them that day so and it's videotaped so the one day that they drove to Spain that the police are
00:49:45
saying that they dumped her body uh there was camera crew in the back now that camera crew was friends of theirs
00:49:52
but again now you're going to say that these these two parents that have no you know no History of Violence no history
00:50:01
uh of any criminal activity that they accidentally killed their daughter or their daughter accidentally died they're
00:50:09
covering it up and they got nine other friends that are helping them cover up and now they got this camera crew
00:50:14
helping them cover it up it's kind of far-fetched let me throw this at you too Captain because the the
00:50:21
statement there is that they would have moved the body right and hid her in what
00:50:26
one would guess would have to be a better hiding spot right or or cremate it or or whatever some way of getting
00:50:35
rid of the body here's the weird thing though would you would you risk so at this point you've
00:50:41
technically successfully hid that body for over 20 days would you would you risk being detected
00:50:48
moving the body after you've successfully hit it for over 20 days unless you hit it in a
00:50:56
manner that would be incriminating to yourself it just makes no damn sense it's it's very questionable now and now
00:51:03
here here's what happened because you know gotta move this along a little bit right no so what happened then is the
00:51:11
Portuguese police then bring Caden for questioning right we're going to get back to the DNA results and all that
00:51:18
stuff of what the dogs found but they bring her in for questions she goes in about like four o'clock five
00:51:24
o'clock she's there till like 1am right they basically offer her a deal and the deal is
00:51:32
we think you know we lay it out we we think that it was accidental death we think you guys covered it up
00:51:40
we think that you were involved we think that your husband was involved maybe somebody else but we're just going to
00:51:45
pin it on YouTube but we understand that you have young twins we understand that your husband is
00:51:52
a physician he makes a bunch of money so what we'll do is we'll just charge you with it
00:51:57
and we'll give you we're going to give you a plea deal for two years he has been two years in jail now all
00:52:04
I'm saying is you're off for two years you probably feel guilty anyways uh and why would you do this why would
00:52:12
you cover up your your daughter's death I don't know but if you did well this is
00:52:17
a pretty easy way out right it's a very good deal for what you're being accused of it's amazing deal and she didn't take
00:52:25
it to me that's a that's a sign of her being innocent and that's a sign of the husband being
00:52:30
innocent now let's get back to these DNA results yes so this is a tricky item for
00:52:37
me Captain because what I'm seeing here is that they cannot rule out that the DNA and the blood they cannot rule out
00:52:46
that it's not madeleines but they cannot rule that it is hers right out of 19 markers which is very low normally DNA
00:52:55
tests have more markers than this for whatever reason this test only has 19 markers now I would actually argue that
00:53:03
there's a chance that the they have more markers and then so only 15 of the 19 markers
00:53:10
matched so that doesn't roll out that it couldn't be Jerry's blood or it could be
00:53:16
um Kate's blood either right because they're you know they make up the DNA of their daughter as well so but it also
00:53:24
sounds like they couldn't rule out maybe even a stranger in in this situation you
00:53:29
know it we we can not say that it's hers we cannot say that it's not hers right but but then there was arguments too
00:53:37
that they feel like some of the blood samples were of a male right and obviously she's a three-year-old girl so
00:53:45
these tests are so weird to me and I wish there was I looked for more stuff I I couldn't find well what I was
00:53:52
interested too and and I was hearing on some other show where they were talking about that there was definitive proof
00:53:58
that there was a dead body in uh Apartment 5A well definitive proof other than what
00:54:06
the dogs right that's that's my problem and that seems like a bold statement to make when
00:54:14
all when you're hearing this information second hand and all you have is a dog that and like I said the behavior of
00:54:21
those dogs I'm not a Handler I don't understand it but the behavior didn't make any sense to me I didn't see a dog
00:54:27
going directly up to an item and staying on that item right right yeah yeah so and who knows but
00:54:34
at the end of the day the only thing I could find that you know showed proof that there might have been a dead body
00:54:40
in in Apartment 5A would have been the dog's reactions but as far as like some test goes I haven't seen it so again
00:54:49
this DNA evidence doesn't prove to innocence or guilt correct all right so we've talked about the mccanns quite a
00:54:56
bit now we also didn't fully we didn't fully clear the potential situation of a stranger abduction right we talked about
00:55:06
that a lot but let's get back into that because as of recent there's been some more developments as far as that being a
00:55:13
likely possibility the first is being a man by the name of David Reed who is he well he's a convicted British sex
00:55:21
offender he moved to the area to where Madeline McCann went missing in 2004. this was after being released from
00:55:30
prison for sexually abusing young girls he was living a approximately 30 miles from where Madeline was staying with her
00:55:39
family this in 2007 the other thing that the authorities are looking at is a certain a certain behavior that was
00:55:49
going on so from 2004 to 2006 in we're going to have to extend this area out I'm going to say in the area but
00:55:58
we're talking about a large area here right okay 30 40 miles yeah so there there's 12 break-ins and these are all
00:56:06
break-ins to to people staying there on vacation during these break-ins whomever
00:56:12
is doing this they are assaulting sexually assaulting girls that are of the ages between 7 and 12. now I want to
00:56:20
be clear here David Reed is a suspect in at least one of those break-ins maybe a
00:56:26
suspect in all 12 break-ins we're discussing an area that is so large in fact the authorities it took them years
00:56:34
to realize that there's a potential that these are actually linked together right
00:56:38
now as far as this investigation goes yes that behavior would fall into somebody that might go into the
00:56:47
apartment and abduct Madeleine McCann that certainly follows that behavior people breaking into different vacation
00:56:53
homes right the problem here though Captain is in those 12 incidences that we have the authorities are stating that
00:57:01
they have over they have 38 Persons of Interest in those cases and he is he's just only one of them one of 38. one
00:57:10
also David Reed is deceased yeah he passed away in 2013 um and they believed that he moved there
00:57:19
in 2004 because at the time Portugal had no sex offender registry yes and also uh a couple other things is
00:57:29
Not only was he maybe involved in these uh break-ins in these sexual attacks but
00:57:35
there was also some other claims um once he started becoming uh known in the community and people started saying
00:57:42
hey you gotta look into this guy some girls came forward and made some claims now those charges were never pressed so
00:57:49
technically innocent until proven guilty but this guy was uh traveling like he would sing and play guitar and bands uh
00:57:57
he I I know of at least one confirmed where because of these attacks he was attacked himself why he was playing oh
00:58:07
really like they they went we know what this guy is he's a he's a pedophile uh he's committed crimes he has some
00:58:16
allegations against him he might be creating more crimes and they they pumbled in right in front of everybody
00:58:22
so um does he match any of the descriptions pseudo uh right but as we mentioned there there's a lot of people that would
00:58:32
match some of those descriptions and and I actually in my opinion um he's he's not as close as some of the
00:58:41
the you know he's not as close as Jerry McCann in my opinion very true um but yeah he vaguely matches the
00:58:49
description yeah so one of the other theories about this was not that it was an abduction but it was actually a
00:58:55
burglary that went bad yeah so this this has come about what just in the last year year and a half where Scotland Yard
00:59:03
they're saying that they are looking for possible links to burglaries and bogus charity collectors in the area at the
00:59:12
time they have released two of these e-fit images of Portuguese men that they would like to identify there were four
00:59:20
separate sightings of Charity collectors on the afternoon of May 3rd at prayer Deluge where she was taken from one may
00:59:27
man approached a property near the ocean Club at about 4 pm in that that afternoon police say there was also a
00:59:36
very large increase in the number of burglaries in the area between January and may back in 2007 and one possible
00:59:45
scenario like the captain pointed out was that Madeleine not assuming that nobody would be in this apartment that
00:59:52
it was going to be broken into they were going to steal valuables and that Madeleine had Disturbed a burglar right
00:59:59
but you're going in to grab a TV and oops I got a kid oh come on give me a break this is the dumbest idea that I've
01:00:07
this is dumber than most of my ideas I do want to stay on this for uh for a minute you know so these collectors
01:00:14
these charity quote unquote charity collectors that they're looking for how did this come about why did they
01:00:21
stand out so much well these were people that were walking around and collecting
01:00:25
money for different organizations but one one thing that they were collecting for was orphanages and how did they know
01:00:32
that these are fake charity collectors because when they would get engaged in conversation with these people that
01:00:37
they're trying to get money from they would say oh I'm collecting for this orphanage in this city well the police
01:00:44
are like that's your report to me are you sure that's what he said because there's no orphanage in that city right
01:00:50
so they learned that these are these are con artists and they believe they don't
01:00:55
know they believe that there's a link between these fake charity guys and the increase in in the burglaries in the
01:01:02
area at the time yeah because the idea would be well let's go in with the charity and even if we don't get any
01:01:07
money that we get information if we get get some information we can go back yeah
01:01:12
when we say that there is an increase in burglaries in the area we mean like within the results in the resort within
01:01:19
blocks of the resort I think there was three within area right there was three within 17 days of her going missing
01:01:26
correct and there and there was a break in like I think seven days before you know they're in 5A right above them so
01:01:34
but again the resorts don't they they don't want to tell you this and then the resort doesn't want to tell you oh by
01:01:39
the way we were telling authorities hey we need to stop this because this is bad
01:01:43
for business and this is going to get out so I guarantee you they didn't tell the McCain's hey you might want to make
01:01:51
sure everything's locked you know like that's no excuse you shouldn't leave your kids alone like that but if you
01:01:57
would have heard about these things maybe you would be a little more on high alert but they don't want to alert you
01:02:02
about it because it's bad for business and then the the cops don't want to bring this up because it's bad for
01:02:07
business so you got these cops pointing the finger at the parents of a girl that
01:02:11
went missing when they they know the the that there's been more break-ins in that
01:02:16
area in the last 17 days that brings up the question of motive Captain right because we're talking about I'm with you
01:02:25
as far as we're talking about Burger of course you're here with me I'm stuck with you we're in the garage we're
01:02:32
talking about a burglary gone bad so I break into a place I'm looking for cash and jewelry this is something that I've
01:02:37
done multiple times right because of course I do it all the time every weekend instead new mics I get inside
01:02:44
and I'm startled by the presence of a little girl who might even be too young to identify me seeing that she does not
01:02:51
know who I am and you don't know if she knows karate or anything so I'm going to
01:02:56
I'm going to abduct that girl as a you know what maybe this kid is more valuable than what I came in here
01:03:03
looking for or maybe I'm going to abduct her because she saw me I think this is a jump this is a bit of
01:03:10
a a this doesn't it feel like they're reaching here Captain where they're like you know what there's we're we're see we
01:03:16
see this uptick in burglaries and maybe it's no coincidence that this happened at the same time that a small girl was
01:03:23
stolen from what's weird is this is the theory that's coming from the Scotland Yard police so it has nothing to do with
01:03:30
the Portuguese please if it had something to do with the Portuguese police I would say well this makes sense
01:03:36
because they don't want you to fear for abduction they don't want to fear for sex trafficking they want you to fear
01:03:43
just a break-in it's a breaking gone bad but but it's weird that it comes from from the Scotland Yard please
01:03:51
I think this is stupid the the motive it's purely it's it's sexual or to sell into sex trafficking it's ridiculous so
01:04:01
that's the most so without even discussing it you want to dismiss the what what motive the mccanns might have
01:04:07
right so we we have we you're stating that the motivation would be sexual or some form of abduction motivation the
01:04:15
McCann's it seems like their situation would be a bit of a leap for a little bit of a
01:04:22
stretch and a reach as well for to to make a motive out of their their daughter accidentally died yeah they're
01:04:30
Physicians if if they walked in and their daughter had an accident they're going to call an ambulance they're going
01:04:36
to call somebody for help they're doctors they took an oath I have a lot of nurse friends they took an oath they
01:04:42
take that serious but Captain they they were sedating their daughter and she died possibly of an overdose why why
01:04:49
wouldn't they cover that up again it's an easy within seconds you call your ambulance
01:04:56
what happened she got into this medicine yeah looks like candy she ate it we've had this problem before yeah or uh I
01:05:04
accidentally gave her a dose and then my wife did we made a mistake we've caught
01:05:08
her fumbling with the pills before you know it's it's easily explainable so where does that leave us are you
01:05:16
stating do you believe the mccanns are are innocent and have been victims of uh of some bad luck here or or do you think
01:05:25
who do you think is right it's not like it was their only daughter and that they're like hey you know what if we can
01:05:31
get rid of her we'll just we can go party with Casey Anthony no no that's not you know it's ridiculous they had
01:05:40
twins it took them a long time to have Madeline like they didn't even know if they're going to be able to have kids it
01:05:45
was a you know they thought it was like the miracle child these these these people were thrown under the bus
01:05:53
right when people didn't do their job and didn't do the investigation and I think still I still think there is
01:05:59
motive from um the resort from the community uh you know there's there's even signs that are
01:06:09
painted like on the stop signs they'll say stop McCain or stop Madeleine circus because they don't want this publicity
01:06:18
well it's like you know if you're going to have people going and taking vacations to your place then uh your
01:06:25
police need to do a better job you need to do about your job the parents needed to do a better job
01:06:31
um you know it's a very Mis it's misfortunate but uh I think they got thrown under the bus I cannot decide to
01:06:40
be honest with you Captain I know people don't like that when somebody sits there
01:06:43
on a fence and they don't pick a side here's here's the fence I'm sitting on I have the McCann's on one side I hope
01:06:49
it's a sharp and stranger abduction on the other and I feel like I know this is an easy out but I feel like I I don't
01:06:56
have enough information to go either way with it I do see some what I think is suspicious behavior on the part of the
01:07:03
mccanns right but I also see things that point towards they didn't do it the therein lies the problem the window for
01:07:11
me is key if that window was open if we found somebody else's fingerprints on that window I would say I would never
01:07:17
look at the mccanns again um so the window for me is key one thing here and I'm going to throw this little
01:07:23
Theory out there and it's slightly different than than some some other ones that we've already presented but the
01:07:30
lead investigator he's gone on to write a book he's gone on to do a documentary um if you want to dive into those I go
01:07:38
for it I recommend it he's was very close to the case the thing here is though he was you have to read the
01:07:45
subtitles yeah he was also removed from the investigation and my understanding of why he was removed was because there
01:07:54
we have Scotland Yard we have the British government they were inquiring about one of the employees at the resort
01:08:00
and he either failed to respond to their inquiries or he failed to investigate this individual now the thing the reason
01:08:10
why I like this theory is that the employee like the remember I said for me the window is key and when I first saw that
01:08:20
window somebody that has a knowledge of the way buildings work and knowledge of security that window appeared to me that
01:08:26
I would have to do great amount of damage to it to get the shutter open however an employee there might know
01:08:33
that that's not the case that you could you could Jimmy that shutter open and most of the time these windows are
01:08:41
unlocked and I'm going to break in there and I'm going to take something that I want
01:08:45
um so I I throw that out there to everyone um I don't and at the time he didn't have to be a registered sex offender so
01:08:52
you could get that job correct so I that's one thing that I would love to know more about unfortunately I think
01:08:58
that you know is this case solvable I think with the evidence that we have and the information that we currently have
01:09:05
no I don't think it's currently solvable what what will help solve this is if somebody comes forward with information
01:09:11
that we don't have or unfortunately if they find Madeline her remains if they find her remains
01:09:19
there's a possibility she could be alive out there somewhere I think that the way
01:09:24
that they find her and where they find her could point us to who is ultimately responsible and a couple things you know
01:09:32
this this case is huge it's a whale I mean this could have really been like four parts uh we could probably broke it
01:09:39
down a little more clearly it's just so much the timeline if if Nick went through the timeline of 10 years there
01:09:46
would have been like it's just so much so we kind of wanted to put you know look at it more on the idea of here's
01:09:53
something uh that points to maybe they're innocent or maybe they're guilty so but there's definitely a lot more to
01:10:00
dive into this case there's also a bunch of sightings we haven't talked about those basically my take on any sightings
01:10:07
of her being alive all the pictures that I have seen and this is just my gut feeling none of them
01:10:15
are her except for one that I I have a hard time you know my theory is more that somebody knew that she was there
01:10:24
breaking them in not for sex trafficking but for their own um sexual desires or whatever and then
01:10:32
when the media storm got too big he had to get rid of the body he had to get rid
01:10:36
of the girl that's my gut feeling but when I see this surveillance picture of her and like convenience store
01:10:45
to me my gut is telling me it is her so if that's true then where is she and who
01:10:51
has her and just before this summer they were making announcements to everybody that was traveling anywhere overseas to
01:10:59
take a picture of Madeline with you and look around and look for her it's ten years later and they they're still
01:11:05
there's still some hope out there yeah and there's other little things that we didn't talk about like you know well the
01:11:10
mccains when they talked in press conferences they seemed cold or just some of that stuff I mean
01:11:17
I think those are little things that that that's not going to help you solve a case you know maybe it it puts a
01:11:24
little sand on the mountain but the the you really need to get to the meat and the potatoes well this was certainly a
01:11:30
heavily requested case and I want to thank everybody for requesting it what actually was our number one requested
01:11:36
show in the last couple months really so I I don't know that's kind of weird how
01:11:42
the world works like I don't know if it's like we're all connected with this weird energy but man it's like every
01:11:48
other day I'd get one Madeline McCain I'm like where's this coming from this is a 10 year old case how about a little
01:11:54
recommended reading here Captain you know about a week or two ago I watched a great movie I watched a movie called
01:12:00
split uh by M Night Shyamalan uh it's you know I'm not going to tell you too much about it because you know we don't
01:12:07
want to be the the podcast that gives away movies yeah it's only like a year old yeah but I watched it a couple weeks
01:12:13
ago and it was brilliant but it reminded me of a story that a True Crime Story that I'd read years ago and I found out
01:12:21
that M Night actually used quite a bit of this book for his research when he was writing the movie Split So today
01:12:28
we're going to recommend the minds of Billy Milligan by Daniel Keys now this is about a case that took place in
01:12:35
Columbus Ohio way back in the day and Billy Milligan he was a man tormented by 24 distinct personalities battling for
01:12:44
Supremacy over his body a battle that culmated when he woke up in jail arrested for the kidnap and rape of
01:12:51
three women in a landmark trial Billy was acquitted of his Crimes by reason of insanity this is one of the most
01:12:58
interesting cases out there I recommend picking up the minds of Billy Mulligan by Daniel keys and you can do that by
01:13:05
going to truecrimegarage.com and click on our recommended page if you'd like to follow us on social media do so
01:13:11
Instagram Snapchat Facebook all that stuff at True Crime garage we hope everybody had a good good Fourth of July
01:13:18
if you're on vacation this week be good have a great vacation until next week be
01:13:23
good be kind and don't live [Music] [Applause]