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[Music] welcome to True Crime garage wherever you are whatever you are doing thanks
00:01:45
for listening I'm your host Nick and with me as always is a man that's hoping to get casted as Ivan Drago's son in the
00:01:52
new Creed 2 movie he is the captain if he dies he dies it's good to be seen and it's good to see see you thanks for
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listening thanks for telling a [Music] friend today we are drinking brawler by yards Brewing Company from the City of
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all right everybody put on your drinking shoes everybody gather around grab a chair grab a beer let's talk some true
00:03:26
[Music] crime [Music] on Friday April 15th 20 5 Ray grear the district attorney for
00:04:04
Center County Pennsylvania called into work saying he would not be coming in for the day he had skipped work to relax
00:04:12
a little and take a drive through the pretty Countryside he planned to stop and do a
00:04:18
little antique hunting at a few mom and pop stores along the way this was not terribly uncommon for
00:04:25
Ry after all he was nearing the end of a very successful career and retirement was in
00:04:31
sight the DA's office could survive a day here or there without Rey so playing hookie and just getting away for a while
00:04:39
was welld deserved as the sun went down and the day turned to night Rey's longtime
00:04:46
girlfriend started to wonder when he would return it got darker and darker and yet
00:04:52
she had not heard from him she tried his cell several times but he never picked up to tell her where he
00:04:59
was was she thought she had waited long enough so she called the local police department she told them what she
00:05:07
knew the police explained that they knew Ry and he was responsible what we were probably
00:05:13
dealing with here is he' gotten late Ry must have decided to stay overnight maybe his phone was dead they would make
00:05:21
a few phone calls and see what they could find the next day when the detectives in
00:05:28
the first shift officers arrived at the office they saw the report stating Ray's
00:05:33
girlfriend had called and said he had not come home after some checking they quickly
00:05:39
discovered Ry was still missing he had never returned nor [Music] called they set off in search of their
00:05:50
missing district attorney they got their first break when they discovered his vehicle next to an
00:05:56
antique shop in Lewisburg Pennsylvania after finding the car investigators ComEd the area but found nothing no
00:06:04
other Clues to suggest where Ray may have gone and there were no signs of Foul Play The District Attorney had
00:06:12
simply vanished and under some mysterious circumstances many different law enforcement agencies have looked into
00:06:19
Ray's disappearance over the years they have found a lot of Clues and a lot of strange actions leading up to the date
00:06:26
that he went missing but nothing definitive I would tell you that he was never seen
00:06:31
again but there are some that say different that they have seen Ry after April 2005 many have speculated that the
00:06:39
prosecutor had made many enemies over the course of his long successful career and that someone may have wanted him
00:06:47
dead but no body has ever been found was he kidnapped taken away and killed elsewhere disposed of where he
00:06:55
would never be found like some kind of mob hit seems like something you would see in a Hollywood movie and not
00:07:02
something that would happen to Ray grear or is there something else going on beneath the surface of this man's
00:07:09
life could he have walked away from a good life he had worked so hard to create or could it have been
00:07:17
suicide or maybe even something more Sinister this is the story of Ray grear The Vanishing
00:07:28
man [Music] Ray grear was born in good old Cleveland Ohio way back in October of
00:07:43
1945 he attended the University of Dayton where he became interested in studying law after working as an intern
00:07:51
for the prosecutor's office from there he completed law school and became a prosecutor for kyoga County at kyoga
00:07:59
County Ry specialized in Prosecuting rape and murder cases Ray married Barbara gray in 1969 and they adopted
00:08:08
their daughter Laura who was born in 1978 mhm Ry his wife and daughter moved to State College Pennsylvania around
00:08:19
1980 this is so Ray's wife Barbara could take a job at Pennsylvania State University Penn State this area is a
00:08:27
really beautiful place ideal for raising a family safe and laidback I guess the plan Captain was that Ry was going to be
00:08:35
a stay-at-home dad uh this is a you know new area to the family who had just moved there a career change for his wife
00:08:43
mhm that's always been my dream be a stay-at-home dad MH forever and ever MH yeah me too uh I tell you what it I
00:08:52
don't know if this was a short-term plan uh if they were just waiting for their da their daughter to start school right
00:08:59
and then maybe Ray could resume his career in criminal law or maybe this was the plan until just the three of them
00:09:05
got settled in I'm not certain but regardless at some point people started to catch wind that a very capable young
00:09:13
prosecutor had moved to town yeah see my move would be kid gets old enough to go
00:09:18
to school right mhm the wife then says to me maybe you should be thinking about starting your career back right and I'd
00:09:28
be saying well you're so beautiful and and smart and and Powerful that that you know I I don't want to disappoint you
00:09:37
and I also need some time for me to find myself and that would happen for about 10 years a good good friend of mine and
00:09:45
he and his wife do not listen to the show so I can I feel I'm just GNA feel free to say this his kids he's a
00:09:52
stay-at-home dad his wife is very successful his kids are getting older and he told me the other day he goes man
00:09:59
I got to do something this stay-at-home dad stuff is driving me crazy I said oh cool you're thinking about going back to
00:10:04
work he goes oh no no I'm not thinking so I don't know what it is that he's got to do but anyway we got a little
00:10:10
Sidetrack there well just a little side note there's there's not many things more sexy than a very smart um empowered
00:10:18
woman there you go I thought you were going to say there's nothing more sexy than a stay-at-home dad I was going to
00:10:24
warn warn the dads out there the captain's on the prow hide the dads so anyway Captain Ray he he had a
00:10:31
reputation when he moved into town There's this capable young prosecutor that moved into town after some back and
00:10:37
forth and probably some coaxing Ry has ultimately offered a job as the prosecutor's assistant Ry excels at this
00:10:46
position and the prosecutor may have been planning a bit of an exit strategy and wanting to leave the county in good
00:10:53
hands one might say he recruited Ray grear and because of this that just a little under 5 years later Ray grear was
00:11:02
elected to be the district attorney of Center County Pennsylvania this was back in
00:11:08
1985 in 1989 after a successful first term Ray grear was reelected as da in 1991 Barbara and Ry get a divorce in
00:11:20
1993 Ry is again elected da he gets married for the second time this took place in
00:11:27
1996 but something else happens in Ray's life in 96 a major event Rey has an older brother and this is Roy Greek car
00:11:37
Roy was still living in Ohio now Roy disappeared from his home in may of 1996 M apparently he was missing for about a
00:11:47
week but then his body was later found in the great Miami River the authorities ruled Roy's death a suicide believing
00:11:56
that he had jumped off a bridge and into the river taking his own life despite his brother's suicide he's going to
00:12:03
actually have a lot of career highlights yeah that same year first he had a successful campaign to make the center
00:12:10
County DA job a full-time position in 1996 I guess it was a part-time position when he was originally elected and
00:12:19
anybody that's been in this situation knows that a lot of times when they create these government jobs that are
00:12:26
part-time positions usually you have an individual that's working basically full-time hours for part-time pay and so
00:12:34
it was good that he got this uh got this switch to fulltime there was also a famous case that same year and trial I
00:12:42
should say uh for Ray in 1996 this was for a school shooting at the camp at the campus of Penn State GRE car prosecuted
00:12:51
the perpetrator of the 1996 hsel Union building shooting at Penn State this was when a 19-year-old
00:12:59
girl opened fire with a rifle in the middle of Campus on September 18th 1996 19-year-old girl yeah the the
00:13:09
report said that she fired at least five shots from a rifle with a telescopic uh telescope site around 9:30
00:13:17
a.m. that morning from the front of the union building this is interesting cuz I
00:13:23
I don't know if I've ever heard of a school shooting that was actually done by a female well and this was I I'm not
00:13:30
familiar with the campus but I guess the near this Union building is considered one of the busiest areas for pedestrians
00:13:38
and students to be walking around it's a beautiful campus the shots sent hundreds
00:13:42
of students and teachers scattering uh this killing one student and wounding another before she was tackled while
00:13:50
trying to reload the gun the woman that was firing the rifle this is Jillian Rob
00:13:55
Robbins lived nearby the state college but she was not technically a student at the
00:14:02
University it said that Miss Robbins had a history of mental problems the student
00:14:08
that was killed was Melanie spala she was a 19-year-old from Pennsylvania there was another person that was
00:14:15
wounded in this attack and there was one student that escaped injury when a book
00:14:21
in his backpack stopped a bullet from piercing him uhhuh what was that book called I don't know then don't tell you
00:14:29
these things when you read the newspaper articles but that what they did tell me
00:14:33
was there is an aerospace engineering student this is Brendan malav he tackled Miss Miss Robinson as she was putting a
00:14:41
second ammunition clip into the rifle now as the two struggled she tried to stab him with a knife but she ended up
00:14:49
she ended up stabbing herself in the leg instead but being a truly good guy this
00:14:55
guy should get like multiple Awards not only did Brandon stopped the attacker from shooting more people and more
00:15:01
students yeah after she had stabbed herself on accident he stood up he took off his belt and he used it as a
00:15:08
tourniquet to to help save her life as well she ended up being hospitalized in serious condition but survived yeah
00:15:16
which Ray would go on and prosecute her then probably because of that prosecution he ended up being reelected
00:15:22
in '97 now this next part most of you may not be familiar with this portion of the story but there is name in here that
00:15:29
I'm sure a lot of you have heard before hwk Hogan in 1998 Ray grear declined to press charges against longtime Penn
00:15:38
State assistant football coach Jerry sanduski yeah following allegations of sexual abuse of a minor now it's not
00:15:47
just as simple as that you know it's not just as simple that he declined to press
00:15:52
charges there was a full investigation there it it may have and probably was more likely
00:15:59
that he was unable to press these charges due to lack of evidence but this is something that we will get into more
00:16:06
during both this episode and the next and Ray was a little bit of a local celebrity I mean they would see him on
00:16:12
the news a lot I mean you see this a lot of times with uh lawyers or or detectives in the area MH yeah he would
00:16:20
be on local news stations quoted in the the newspaper and because he was a very successful prosecutor in 1999 Greek car
00:16:29
appeared on the Discovery Channel show the FBI Files now I'm not certain which case that they were discussing on there
00:16:36
I wanted to go back and watch it but we're working on a bit of a time crunch this week Captain so I didn't get a
00:16:41
chance to do that yeah somebody feels the need to take vacations well it's there's like a foot of snow outside and
00:16:48
it's super cold and I'm going to go somewhere where that I'm going somewhere where that's not happening buddy later
00:16:54
Ry and his second wife split up this took place in 2001 a year or two later Ry moved in with his girlfriend Patty
00:17:02
they worked together or had worked together at one time um he would later be reelected he was reelected I'm sorry
00:17:10
four times total before announcing that he would not run for reelection in 2005 yep it was 2004 when Greek car
00:17:20
announced he would not run for reelection and he would actually retire from the da job yeah Ray was turning 60
00:17:28
in 2005 and his retirement would be just shortly after his 60th birthday so a very good and long run career as the da
00:17:38
of a great place to live and you know going through his life gives you the feel of who Ry was and what kind of guy
00:17:45
he was kind of the All-American boy who grows up to be the All-American man you know serving the community he's a
00:17:51
husband and a and a father he has he's a husband multiple times yeah yeah couple of times we need
00:18:00
to talk about April 15th Captain April 15th 2005 that's a Friday well At 11:30 a.m. Ray Greek car called his girlfriend
00:18:10
Patty to let her know that he was driving through the Brush Valley area Northeast of Center Hall yeah according
00:18:18
to the police chief this is Dwayne Dixon grear last spoke to his girlfriend Patty
00:18:24
around 11:30 a.m. on that Friday the longtime district attorney had planned to go into the office around
00:18:33
noon that day but instead he called his girlfriend who also works at the office and told her he was out for a drive
00:18:40
along Route 192 in pens Valley he told her he would not be in at all that day no one thought it this to be unusual
00:18:50
though uh Patty didn't hear from him again on Saturday evening the state police located Greek car's car a Mini
00:18:59
Cooper parked in a small dirt lot near an antique shop in Lewisburg Union County which is about 60 miles east of
00:19:07
Bal Fountain there they learned Greek car had been seen in the shop on Saturday afternoon yeah Greek car's car
00:19:15
was locked and there was no signs of Foul Play his cell phone was inside the car he has not been heard from since but
00:19:25
we have some missing items here captain can't find this guy they find his cell phone in the car but there are some
00:19:32
missing items the items that they did not find include Ray's laptop computer his car keys and his wallet now they
00:19:41
found his car it was parked in the parking lot like a dirt lot okay so he's parked there but you would assume he was
00:19:50
seen in the store that's why he parked his car there but this store was close to Bridges and remember his brother did
00:19:58
take his own life by jumping off a bridge yeah and I guess that would be the first thing one of the first things
00:20:04
that the family pointed out to police when they located the vehicle you know this is wasn't something that the police
00:20:10
were super familiar with right but you have you have the family that are going wait a second this is eerily familiar
00:20:17
we've seen this before we have uh you know his older brother Roy having jumped off a bridge vehicle found near two
00:20:25
Bridges going over the uh sasah River so oddly enough similar somewhat similar to
00:20:32
how his brother's vehicle was found many years before now on Sunday the state police used a helicopter to search for
00:20:39
over two hours along the banks of that river near where his car was found for any signs of Ray yeah investigators used
00:20:48
blood hounds to try to track and try to pick up some kind of scent but they they
00:20:52
didn't find anything they started tracking his credit cards and his bank records to see if they had been used uh
00:21:00
there were also they were also checking his computer files and his phone records the FBI had been called in to
00:21:08
assist with some of those task in addition investigators were combing through Greek car's current and previous
00:21:15
cases to see if anyone he's prosecuted could be holding a grudge against him yeah now the police chief would would
00:21:22
come out and say that there had been no recent threats against Ray grear but he also said that there is no
00:21:30
one Focus point for their investigation that they had no good leads early in this
00:21:36
investigation now the next day he kept saying Saturday I actually believe this might have taken place on Monday morning
00:21:43
but standing at a Podium was Laura grear uh grasping a legal pad and she made a plea to her father she said hi Dad I
00:21:53
want you to know I love you so much my heart aches deeply for your presence she told her father she would like to hug
00:22:00
him and perhaps hike up a mountain together and just sit and talk for a while yeah she said that she will wait
00:22:07
for him as long as it takes to hear from him now I want to point out Laura grear
00:22:13
she lives all the way in Washington state so all the way on the other side of the country she comes here to help
00:22:20
look for her father and make this public plea on television uh go ahead well do you feel like she's making this plea as
00:22:28
if he's alive and he's running away so you would think that she would have some gut feeling that's telling her that this
00:22:36
is the case and not Foul Play or whatever and then probably it's backed up by her mother telling her you know
00:22:44
she she probably at some point said I'm going to go to Pennsylvania and I'm going to make this uh plea to my father
00:22:50
and then her mother's probably going oh yeah that's a good idea so that's two individuals that that are close to him
00:22:56
that think it's very possible that he just disappeared on his own yeah and when you have no signs of Foul Play
00:23:03
that's the way you have to approach it and that's exactly what she did she finished her um her plea to her father
00:23:10
hoping that maybe he would see that broadcast by saying I love you so much please call please call us now Patty
00:23:18
fornicola that's Ray Greer's long-term girlfriend she also spoke briefly at that news conference she too directed
00:23:26
her comments directly to Greek car saying Ray I love you very much and I miss you I want you to come home please
00:23:33
call us we will wait as long as we have to and then at the conference Greek car he was he was described by others there
00:23:40
as a Hands-On prosecutor who was dedicated to his job right we have Mark Smith this is Greek car's assistant
00:23:49
first assistant district attorney he said that Center County was really blessed to have Greek car here for all
00:23:57
of those years Smith described his boss as a private person a very private person he kept his own calendar at work
00:24:04
and he was passionate about the law typically Smith said grear keeps his cell phone with him at all times so he
00:24:12
can stay in touch with the office even when he's on vacation once before they stated that Greek car had took off for a
00:24:20
day and a half this was when Greek car drove to Ohio for a ball game but in that instance no one had reported him
00:24:29
missing now also mentioned was the death of GRE car's brother Roy who went missing in may of 1996 in Westchester
00:24:39
Ohio where we had said you know after a week his body had been found in the in the great Miami River his death was
00:24:46
ruled a suicide by Drowning now there is information out there and this is a bit
00:24:52
difficult uh I could find a statement from Rey's nephew MH and this was that the nephew Roy's son had stated that
00:25:03
that Rey didn't believe this was a drowning that wasn't didn't believe it was a suicide that he had thought that
00:25:09
there was other factors involved in his brother's death and the son Roy's son believed this as well now unfortunately
00:25:18
we don't have Rey to tell us that that was his actual beliefs we just have Roy son telling us that
00:25:26
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be's clearance and [Music] Outlet all right we're back cheers mimes cheers uh so we we talked about the
00:27:49
things that weren't found and raise car right after his car was found mhm but the thing that I think is one of the
00:27:57
most most interesting things about this whole whole case is what was found and what was found was some cigarette Ash
00:28:05
yes and I wasn't I don't know if I've heard different reports but I also heard that there was a report that his car
00:28:13
smelled of smoke yes both reports from my understanding are true so um we'll go through this kind of quick here his
00:28:21
vehicle is found and it's one of those you know small Mini Coopers and inside find his cell phone which we heard
00:28:30
people from his office say even when this guy was on vacation he kept his cell phone on him so he could get in
00:28:36
touch with the office mhm we don't find the keys to the car uh and the car is found locked now inside the car is this
00:28:46
cigarette Ash which is found on the passenger side but it's on the floor area it's not on the seat it's on the
00:28:53
floor and the car the way that the police described it was on the floor what's that the ash is on the floor yeah
00:29:01
the the cigarette Ash is on the floor so so picture it's almost like somebody was
00:29:06
either a sitting in the passenger seat smoking a cigarette or B maybe he had his window down they weren't actually in
00:29:14
the car and they were leaning into the car with the cigarette yeah I I had a buddy one time he needed a me to pick
00:29:22
him up in Pittsburgh okay which is like three hours away so so I pick him up and
00:29:29
the whole ride home he was smoking and I didn't you know pay much attention he was just smoking in the car
00:29:38
right and then when he got out of the car uh I looked down there cigarettes ashes all over my floor and I realized
00:29:49
he was just ashing on the floor well that's nice and polite yeah I mean I give him I was a 6 seven hour round trip
00:29:57
for me and uh and that's how he repaid me so there's two things here I can't say for certain that there would have
00:30:03
been enough Ash for one to believe that somebody was sitting in the passenger seat and just ashing on the floor like
00:30:08
your good friend did um or if it was just you know cigarette Ash has it tend to just fall off the cigarette while
00:30:15
it's burning but the way that the police describe the ash itself and then the smell first like I said it appeared
00:30:23
either someone was in the car sitting in the passenger seat it was right in that
00:30:27
area you know between the legs area or somebody was leaning into the car when the we when the window was down with
00:30:34
their cigarette inside the vehicle the smell was reported as the police said that it smelled to them like someone was
00:30:43
smoking in the car like right before the car was you know before they exited the
00:30:48
vehicle shut the doors and locked up the car almost like it trapped in you know actual smoke itself and it had sat there
00:30:57
they're not really certain how long that car had sat there either which is the other thing to take into consideration
00:31:04
okay here here's the thing and anybody that has smoked would probably know this if your buddy smoked and you rolled down
00:31:13
the windows and he was just leaning in right and talk to you and there's some ash on the floor but not a bunch of Ash
00:31:19
right so maybe a few Puffs he's leaning in the car you're not saying anything cuz you know no big deal right right the
00:31:26
person gets you know gets out of the window you roll up the window let's say the car sits for a day you open up that
00:31:34
car you're not going to smell smoke right you know what I mean like so or but take the same scenario leaning in
00:31:43
the car smoking gets out of the window rolls it up you find that car in the next hour or so yeah you'll smell it
00:31:50
yeah might smell I would think so but after a few hours of that situation you are not going to smell
00:31:57
smoke now maybe if the individual's in the car with the windows up smokes a full cigarette let's say right and now
00:32:05
now the the window is going to be longer maybe 6 hours afterwards maybe you'd smell a hint of smoke you see what I'm
00:32:12
saying so that that's a big deal you know to me well it's important too because Ray Greek car didn't smoke and
00:32:20
not only did he not smoke but you know the the people that like hate smoke and hate cigarettes and hate smokers that
00:32:26
was Ray G he did not he wouldn't have let somebody smoke in his car is what his girlfriend and his family members
00:32:34
would say now we don't know that that's a certainty right and that's that where it becomes a little different because
00:32:41
you have buddies um you know that will smoke only when they drink mhm you know but but when they're not drinking
00:32:48
they're pretty against it oh you know somebody wants to smoke in their car they're going to say no right so you
00:32:55
know this whole idea that he he definitely wouldn't let anybody smoke in his car um I mean I don't know him well
00:33:02
enough and and and maybe I should just go base off what they're saying but there's a lot of people that I know that
00:33:07
are quote unquote against smoking yeah until they're drinking and then they've had nine Bud Lights and all of a sudden
00:33:15
they want a cigarette from you that right well no yeah they become smokers all of a sudden yeah and usually dancers
00:33:22
at that point too anyway U but I think I think what the police are stating here is that you know we can't say for
00:33:30
certain that he wouldn't if you know let anybody smoke in his car for any reason
00:33:35
at all but the information they're getting from his family is that this is definitely something strange this is
00:33:40
something that they should uh keep into consideration when they come out with the statement like there was no signs of
00:33:47
Foul Play yes this isn't Foul Play but this is something definitely out of the ordinary where we've not seen anything
00:33:52
out of the ordinary leading up to him going missing now the reporters we spoke in the first half about that news
00:34:01
conference where we have Laura his daughter talking about him being missing and speaking to him like Hey Dad come
00:34:08
home you know give us a call you know pick up a phone and give us a phone call uh the reporter is was stating after
00:34:15
interviewing both police and gray car's family that he said you know obviously the police are investigating every
00:34:23
possible scenario however it was the reporter's belief that R car's family seemed to be leaning toward the idea
00:34:30
that Ry had taken off on his own now I do want to point out one interesting note before we go too far into maybe
00:34:38
possible scenarios and some things that happened after his disappearance but one
00:34:43
thing we should keep in mind uh an interesting note is that at the time of his disappearance Ray GRE car was making
00:34:49
over six figures um and remember we said that he was set for retirement he was planning to retire Within in the next
00:34:57
year mhm so just to kind of give you a general overview of his life and his situation at that time because you
00:35:04
really have when you think about it there would be probably three major scenarios that we we should bring up
00:35:12
here is it either a he was murdered and they haven't found his body B the suicide we've seen the family history uh
00:35:22
with his brother maybe there was some depression going on maybe he chose to take his own life and then C we have the
00:35:29
possibility of him walking away just just stepping out of his car and walking away or
00:35:35
d right right what's D so D would be the idea that you know his brother um committed suicide quote unquote mhm but
00:35:46
Rey believed and and then um Roy's son believed that maybe it wasn't a suicide but maybe a murder to set it up to look
00:35:56
look like a suicide mhm so then you have this conspiracy aspect so did somebody uh plan to murder uh Ry and then try to
00:36:05
make it look like a suicide or look like he disappeared uh because he wanted to leave yeah but they wouldn't murder him
00:36:13
and make it look like a murder you know what I mean like no no but what I'm saying is you know he had he has reason
00:36:21
to believe that his brother didn't commit suicide that he was murdered ACC according to the nephew yeah
00:36:27
right and and also according to the nephew that that's what Ry believed so if that happened whoever killed his
00:36:35
brother could they be responsible for the fact that Ry went missing and and we'll have him parked close to these
00:36:41
Bridges and if we do that that'll make it look you know maybe you know you'll find his body in in the water and
00:36:48
they'll assume suicide just like his brother well and like we said Captain the cell phone was found it was
00:36:54
recovered in the vehicle but the laptop that Ry owned that was not recovered and
00:37:00
it wasn't until July 30th of that same year that a fisherman uh had discovered Ray's laptop computer this was in the
00:37:09
river beneath the bridge uh between Lewisburg in Milton a computer expert analyzed the computer and they very
00:37:17
quickly found that its hard drive was missing from the laptop divers searched the area of the river near where the
00:37:25
laptop was located over the next several days but they found nothing it wasn't until 2 months later that someone had
00:37:34
recovered a hard drive on the banks of the sasana river just about a 100 yard from the location of the labtop computer
00:37:43
and investigators believe that this was Ray's hard drive but here's the weird thing the the hard drive as you can
00:37:50
imagine was quite damaged MH um and they did they did analysis by by the FBI by the US Secret Service of all people and
00:38:01
then a private firm which attempted to uh recover data from the hard drive but failed to do
00:38:09
so in 2009 this is this is weird in 2009 the police revealed for the first time that
00:38:19
before Ry went missing someone used the home computer now keep in mind this is at the home of Ray and Patty house to
00:38:27
perform internet searches on topics such as how to wreck a hard drive also how to
00:38:35
fry hard drive and water damage to a notebook computer now I'm not certain of the
00:38:43
dates of these searches I I believe that there are people that have their theories out there on to when these this
00:38:49
search took place um but these searches were going down at the home of Ray and Patty and it's just shortly before his
00:38:57
disappearance and he takes off let's let's assume Ray takes off with the purpose of of leaving of walking away or
00:39:04
committing suicide right mhm he purposely took off with that laptop computer and then we have these searches
00:39:11
on the home computer prior to this mhm so now you got to you got to be thinking about a situation did did he leave
00:39:18
willingly take the laptop and want to fry the laptop for some reason or did Patty do something or have something
00:39:25
some weird involved in his disappearance and she was searching how to fry his computer uh in advance yeah to me I lean
00:39:35
more towards it' be Ray doing it yeah the the other thing too is that there were several of his
00:39:44
co-workers had later told police that they had had conversations with Ry that he was inquiring about how to uh wreck
00:39:52
his hard drive or how to clean let's say clean the computer we to keep in mind this was not
00:39:58
technically his laptop computered to the county so one has to assume that once he
00:40:04
retired he would no longer be in possession of that laptop he would have to return that to to the county okay so
00:40:13
let's just Ponder for a second what is on the laptop why would he need to destroy the hard drive well where my
00:40:23
mind goes Captain is it immediately goes to just when they found the laptop and then
00:40:29
later found the hard drive my mind goes to who other than Ray would want to destroy that computer what would be on
00:40:35
that computer that somebody else would want to destroy it and I mean that because we're talking about a district
00:40:41
attorney we're talking about somebody that's probably got some dirt on some people and somebody that could have have
00:40:48
information in there that could lead to Future charges against an individual and
00:40:53
put them behind bars potentially it's not until it's not until that you later learn that there were searches on his
00:41:00
home computer on how to wreck the computer that one starts to think well why would Ry why would Ry want to
00:41:07
destroy his computer or why would Patty want to destroy his computer yeah but again there's there's another step in
00:41:13
the evidence chain is one there was searches at his home and then he asked people how to do this so we could like I
00:41:22
said I'm assuming that he's the one that did the searches himself because he's he's also asking people in public how do
00:41:28
I get rid how do I destroy this hard drive right well co-workers he's asking co-workers about that right and so yeah
00:41:37
I mean my okay so he's turning in the computer what could be on there I I question would there be I think police
00:41:47
their thought was that there was some kind of personal journal on there that he had personal information about
00:41:52
himself that he had put on the computer I don't know how long he he had been toing around this this County uh
00:41:59
computer and what kind of information he was putting on there maybe he was using
00:42:03
it for personal purposes you know just as simple as paying bills or had financial information on this computer
00:42:11
that he wanted he didn't want the next person to to be able to to see it right or there's hundreds of thousands of porn
00:42:18
sites you know CU it was he's using his uh work computer to beat off that it could be that simple Hees doesn't want
00:42:26
them to know he was using the computer at work to to beat off and he wants to clear the hard drive all right um that's
00:42:35
a simple that's a simple thing it's yeah it's pretty simple too that he might have been doing some banking on there
00:42:41
paying bills uh I'm talking about anything personal that he would use the computer for uh is there a chance that
00:42:47
there was some back and forth some correspondence with his girlfriend on there mhm cuz think about this he they
00:42:55
work together I mean maybe they use their uh County email to to exchange some you know some
00:43:05
uh some naughty pictures maybe I don't I don't even mean that I don't possibly I
00:43:11
mean anything's possible we're talking about somebody that chose to destroy their computer and run away um but what
00:43:18
I think what I mean is just correspondence back and forth between the two of them of a personal of their
00:43:24
relationship yeah um this is what's weird for me is cuz it could be like I said just something very
00:43:32
simple you know and uh you know I did some banking here I did some pulling the Pud on here you know some you know
00:43:44
risque uh emails back and forth which that would be government servers anyway so they
00:43:51
could get into those if you wanted anyways Journal those are all simple to me my gut feeling is if he's doing searches
00:43:59
at home and he's asking co-workers or whoever mhm that it's something bigger than that yeah and I don't here's the
00:44:09
thing a lot of people have presented the idea well maybe he's just gathering this
00:44:13
information because at some point he plans to retire like we said is going to be within the next year and he just
00:44:19
wants to turn in the computer clean for whatever reason it could be innocent personal stuff that's on there um but I
00:44:25
do want to throw this at more at least more than one of the co-workers that told police that that he
00:44:32
had inquired to them hey how do I clean sweep this computer before I turn it in these same people at least two of them
00:44:40
told the police that please keep in mind Ray grear he was a very successful guy incredibly intelligent and hardworking
00:44:48
MH but he didn't know much about computers is what those co-workers had passed along to police and meaning who
00:44:56
knows what he what his plans were for that computer or what he thought was that they would find right I think the
00:45:03
other thing here too is um you know he's a prosecutor so sometimes you're asking these questions
00:45:12
you know we we have a lot of conversations with the detectives and uh private investigators about cases and
00:45:19
sometimes you just call them to go if I was to do this right I you know so he could be inquiring about a case for all
00:45:28
we know um but this is what what's weird to me is his connection with Jerry sanduski and the fact that we now have
00:45:38
this um pedophile that you know we now know went to jail and um did horrible acts and what information did he have on
00:45:49
Jerry um that might have been on his computer yeah so uh before before we get into that Captain let's go through this
00:45:57
real quick it was in 2011 uh in July that the county actually declared Ray grear legally dead you know they had not
00:46:06
he had not been around for six years at this point yeah and a day after the judge declared Ray grear legally dead
00:46:14
this is very strange the police in Utah arrested a man who resembled Ray grear and this guy actually refused to reveal
00:46:23
his identity to the police and he was only being char chared with a misdemeanor mhm so they this John Doe
00:46:30
who resembled Ray grear uh not only in look but as well as height and weight um and some even say that he had the same
00:46:39
wrinkles on his face uh that Ray grear had the similarities caused an internet sensation you know people armchair
00:46:48
detecting looking for Ray grear and there was a lot of speculation that they had actually found Ray uh but but it
00:46:56
took some time after some uh sending copies of fingerprints back and forth that they determined that that was not
00:47:03
Ray grear that was arrested in Utah um sure so nevertheless the fingerprints that
00:47:11
they sent out did not trigger a match in that situation what you were getting to
00:47:16
though sure also something that occurred in 2011 was Jerry sanduski was arrested
00:47:22
and charged by the Pennsylvania Attorney General's office on multiple counts of child sex abuse charges now we need to
00:47:30
go through this a bit I think I don't want the whole Sandusky case to hijack the show but I believe it's important
00:47:36
part of this case and for some of our good people out there they may not be familiar with this case especially our
00:47:43
International garage Army members MH so okay so for those let's start at the very the most simple part of this for
00:47:52
for people that are unaware so Penn State is a is a college as we had said in the state of Pennsylvania now college
00:48:00
football for people outside of this country college football is arguably the biggest sport or one of the biggest
00:48:06
Sports in this country it's a huge it's a huge Money Maker uh it's huge for the uh universities a lot of these players
00:48:14
go on to have careers in the NFL where they make a lot of money so we're talking big dollar stuff here now Jerry
00:48:20
sanduski would have been an assistant coach to Joe pno who was the head coach for a long standing time at the state of
00:48:28
uh at the College of Penn State now there had been some rumor that that sanduski was molesting boys and these
00:48:38
would be I don't have the ages in front of me but I'm guessing if I remember correctly would probably be be about
00:48:45
boys like age 11 to maybe 14 or 15 yeah and sanduski was your typical pedophile uh and what I mean by that is he was the
00:48:58
type that he was going to use his position of power to put him in a situation where he could gain the trust
00:49:06
of some of these young men and boys and then he would use that trust to to turn against them and and do horrible things
00:49:14
to them right he he ran a charity and I believe the charity was called Second Mile I'm not positive on that Captain
00:49:22
but I think it was called Second Mile and the the simplest explanation of this charity was it was an organization that
00:49:30
was set out to um to take a look at troubled youths and try to put them on the correct path to
00:49:38
give them a second chance so to speak and so in 1998 was when the first Rumblings of this come about we have two
00:49:47
boys that made claims against Jerry sanduski and this was the case that Ray grear worked yeah he worked this case
00:49:54
trying to get get I question how much evidence there was because it appears to me like he he
00:50:00
was trying to get some kind of confession from Jerry sanduski and sanduski said some things
00:50:07
that were a little incriminating but they were very cryptic they were uh what he did was they took grear I'm sorry
00:50:16
grear took sanduski and one of the victim's mothers and put them in the same room together
00:50:23
and at some point this is kind of mind hunterish you know on mind mind Hunter they always talk about how to set up the
00:50:29
interrogation room and and how to handle to kind of manipulate the put little and
00:50:34
things in the background here so Greek car set it up so that the plan was this that he was going to direct questions to
00:50:40
sanduski and at some point he wanted the mother to interject and kind of take over the questioning and stab him in his
00:50:48
throat so the mother asked sanduski something to the effect of all right so this is weird they were they were in a
00:50:57
shower together which should never happened to begin with that alone Jo the interrogation no no the the boy one of
00:51:05
the boys in sanduski were in a shower together nope so from what happened what typically happened with sanduski from my
00:51:14
understanding is there are several incidences where he would be at a high school you know players that play at
00:51:21
high school level or he would take these troubled youths to the uh Penn State football facilities and they have
00:51:28
showers there you know and he would do these fake practices or whatever and then there would be a shower session at
00:51:33
some point it would typically be during the shower session that he would start to
00:51:38
molest the boys so the mother at some point interjects with the question of when you were in the shower with my son
00:51:48
seeing him did that excit you and I think that question really threw sanduski for a curveball because he he
00:51:55
almost confesses there he says something like I don't know yes I guess like he gives like a weird answer like that like
00:52:03
he's like really kind of thrown off by the question and then he immediately says something to the effect like well
00:52:09
she she says like well did you molest him and he says no I didn't but I'm I'm sorry and I I wish I were dead so it's
00:52:18
it's this weird thing that's like grear leaves this meeting I mean when you leave that
00:52:23
meeting you know like this dude did this stuff yeah he just didn't say anything that really is going to get you get you
00:52:30
a conviction and unfortunately this is a guy that's of prominence too and and I hate to say this but we know this to be
00:52:37
the truth in most situations usually people in a position of power sometimes it takes a little more to convict them
00:52:44
than it would some low life like me in the garage yeah yeah I want to compare yourself to wouldn't call me a low life
00:52:52
when you talk about that group but the fact of the matter is is at this point and based off of the interrogation based
00:53:01
off uh the transcripts I'm sure at some point um that Ry was taping this this information should have went to Penn
00:53:09
State and they should have said here's what here is what's happening Jerry is not going to no longer going to work for
00:53:15
us for one because we have young boys that go into the college program you know 18 19yearold boys mhm so you're not
00:53:25
going to be around them not going to be around any athlete showering you're not going to work for us and also those
00:53:31
connections with the charity and you helping out kids we're going to put a kabash on that too and that's what
00:53:37
should have happened that's not what happened but that's what should have happened well it gets worse because I
00:53:43
believe it was the following year after these allegations first came out that Jerry Sandusky retires from his position
00:53:51
as a coach at Penn State yeah now upon retirement he still I believe he was the founder of that second mile charity of
00:53:59
that Foundation yeah and Penn State allowed him to keep an office at the at their facilities where he continued to
00:54:07
use their facilities to uh gain the trust of these boys and then later molest them so this continued for many
00:54:14
years so for those of you out there that are not familiar with this case we're talking about a guy that was later
00:54:20
convicted of multiple multiple counts where we have lots of victims over long history of time the guy I believe was
00:54:28
sentenced to 30 to 60 years and I think he was in his mid to late 60s when he was sentenced so thank God we're we're
00:54:35
seeing a guy that will not get out of prison one his son was charged as well yeah and and the reason why this is so
00:54:43
big so for those of you not familiar Ray grear worked in the county of Penn State
00:54:50
where that where that college is that college is the biggest thing in that area that College runs that town right
00:54:56
let's put it this way that is your cash cow and then your God your God bigger than bigger than the President right
00:55:05
bigger than any world leader in that little town is the head football coach mm and so that's where this becomes
00:55:15
really shitty because of money and because of a football program I think some of a lot of this was swept under
00:55:23
the rug and that's complete horeshit well and there's plenty of evidence I don't want to get into a
00:55:28
whole debate about this portion of it but there's a lot of evidence out there that uh it's obvious that certain
00:55:34
members of the Penn State University knew that this was possibly going on and they kind of turned turned a blind eye
00:55:43
to it yeah and kind of acted like nothing bad was going on and they let this monster um victimize these children
00:55:50
repeatedly for years and and so what I was wondering is um I think it was his son Jerry sandusky's
00:55:59
son that he had and maybe Jerry was also hit with uh having child pornography on
00:56:05
his computer so what I'm wondering is what what let's just say hypothetically what if Ry went to some people said can
00:56:13
you help me with this can we get something on Jerry and they could have simply said you know we got these files
00:56:20
from him here's the files and then Ry opened them up mhm and then couldn't you know how do you explain away that file
00:56:29
that's interesting see what I'm saying and so that's why I wondered like to me like again is it is is it a kind of a
00:56:37
gross thing that this guy would be using his work computer at home to you know jerk off or whatever yeah but you can
00:56:45
explain that away right like well you don't want to have to you don't want to but I'm just saying that I'm just saying
00:56:53
that like if you turn in stuff like that or you turn in you know the a diary I don't know to me there was a
00:57:01
reason he's asking people and it had to be darker I think and it could have been
00:57:05
just as simple as a private investigator said we got these files on him you got to take a look at them to see if they're
00:57:13
incriminating right and he could try to explain that away but that that would be
00:57:19
a maybe a little more difficult well and with regarding the sanduski thing you know the thing that the reason why this
00:57:25
case is always linked to the sanduski uh crimes is simply this you know people have often wondered if if
00:57:34
there were so many people in powerful position so many smart quote unquote smart people I don't want to label them
00:57:40
as smart obviously right that turned a blind eye to what was going on or what they thought could have been going
00:57:47
on people also wonder where's the line then when where do where does one stop to to continue to cover up
00:57:55
this the Mis dealings of this powerful man and and that's why this case has always been linked to that we have a guy
00:58:02
that goes missing in 2005 we have Rumblings that start in 9899 that this stuff is going on and and it wasn't
00:58:10
until 2011 that everything is brought to the light so was it covered up again in
00:58:16
2005 was was it was this going to be brought to light in 2005 and somebody stopped somebody stopped that from
00:58:23
happening now it was uh I want to continue on Captain cuz we got one more item that I want to make sure we get to
00:58:29
before we run out of time today but in 2015 there was some information that came out and this is just full of bad
00:58:39
this is just all kinds of bad right here so in 2015 I believe it was September there's an unnamed individual
00:58:47
that comes forward and he is telling the authorities this is an FBI informant who
00:58:54
is a former Hell's Angel member of the motorcycle gang he tells the FBI that Ray grear has been murdered
00:59:05
that he was murdered back in 2005 and he was murdered by another member of the Hell's Angels
00:59:12
okay so the way this thing works is like this apparently this FBI informant former Hell's Angel guy he believed that
00:59:21
the guy that he was accusing was was dead by this point mhm so if this dude was afraid of this dude or what I don't
00:59:29
know why he waited to tell the FBI this but but I'm assuming he was afraid of this guy and thought that he was
00:59:37
dead he would later find out during the course of this investigation and the information that
00:59:44
he's providing that this guy was actually in fact he was still alive and he was in another state now I don't know
00:59:52
if this guy that he's trying to turn in is still a Hell's Angel member I don't know you know I don't know who he is he
01:00:00
he remains unnamed to this day but why what would his motivation for killing Ray be
01:00:06
apparently the the member that killed Ray grear Ray Greek car had had prosecuted
01:00:13
this guy a long time ago MH and apparently it was for just some kind of assault charges it wasn't for like the
01:00:21
you know it wasn't for something huge you know it wasn't like a big crime but apparently the uh the guy felt like he
01:00:30
was wrongfully prosecuted not that he was guilt you know not that he was innocent of these charges but that they
01:00:36
gave him some extremely lengthy sentence for what he was convicted of right he didn't agree with the sentence of of
01:00:43
what he had done wouldn't that be done by the judge well and I think that well I think the the state in the county can
01:00:50
recommend uh sentences or lengths of sentences right and anyway they uh apparently the once this man got out of
01:00:59
prison he Tracked Down Greek car and he killed him uh and he I guess he according to this guy he slit the throat
01:01:08
of Ray grear and he took him out to this property and I don't I have no information of where this property is
01:01:15
this these reports are all very vague but he took him out to this property and I guess there's a mine shaft somewhere
01:01:22
on this property if not multiple M shafts mhm and Ray GRE car's body and his remains were placed somewhere in
01:01:30
that Min shaft according to this FBI informant Ray's body is not the only one in that Min shaft oh it's a b it's a
01:01:40
body shaft the problem the problem with this part of the story though is is that
01:01:45
he will not tell them where this m shaft is located he starts to back out and I believe it could be that once he found
01:01:52
out this guy's still alive he said right I'm not cooperating anymore there are a
01:01:57
lot of people out there though and a lot of people in law enforcement that believe that this might just be some
01:02:03
kind of false confession and I don't know what the uh the gain would be I don't know what the reason for it well
01:02:10
you he said he was a FBI informant that also was a Hell's Angel right yeah he was a one time
01:02:17
Hell's Angel member if not still to this day we don't know IID just say the the psychology that goes into having to be
01:02:25
in those environments could mess with you a little bit to be on both sides of the fence yeah mhm well a lot of times
01:02:34
though that's the misconception that I think some people have that actually a lot of times these informants that's
01:02:40
what they are they are on both sides of the fence they're they're playing the good and they're playing the bad um
01:02:47
and one's mind it could mess with with some someone's mind it also always makes me question their credibility well right
01:02:55
because your job is to alter reality you're trying to alter the reality of the bad side or the good side and so
01:03:03
therefore your reality can become fuzzy and like I said it's just all kinds of bad because if in fact this confession
01:03:11
these statements are true then Ray grear is dead and he's he's in a place where they may not find him until somebody
01:03:17
points this out to them if it's not true then we've just got another bunch of information that leads nowhere or right
01:03:26
doesn't matter yeah in this case is just crazy because it's one of those cases where you have several different
01:03:33
scenarios that could have happened with Ray grear he could we could be talking about suicide we could have be talking
01:03:39
about he walked away or somebody killed him and conspiracy there's information to point you in either of those
01:03:47
directions in all four of those directions and there's certainly evidence out there to talk about more
01:03:53
theories than just what we covered here today and to do so on the next episode we asked James rener our good friend is
01:03:59
he the only guy that's returned that's come back to the garage multiple times the rest of them are dead the rest of
01:04:07
them the rest of them didn't want to see they're all they're all in the body shaft but we we asked our good friend
01:04:12
James rener to sit down and talk to us about the ray GRE car case because this is one that he covered back in the day
01:04:19
and he spent quite a bit of time he worked for a newspaper I believe and a lot of people know him from the mar
01:04:24
Murray disappearance and have some strong opinions uh good and bad for Mr rener um we are on the good side
01:04:31
obviously but we've asked him to talk with us about this Greek car case because this is one that he looked into
01:04:37
for quite some time and he got a bunch of information and theories from some of the locals well he's just a very
01:04:44
interesting guy to uh pick his brain and the fact that he covered this case made
01:04:49
it even more interesting and the the great thing about him is he didn't hold back back on some of the crazier
01:04:55
theories he and not saying that he believes in them he just kind of lays them out for everybody so join us in the
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