00:00:09
n [Music] do you believe that there was strangulation yes to Medical certainty to reasonable great medical certainty
00:00:52
she was strangled yeah I would I testify in the court of law I've said in my reports do you think there's any signs
00:00:58
of abuse before for the death I'm concerned about that yes and the reason I'm concerned about that is the bruises
00:01:07
to the wrists obviously the strangulation but there's extens of bruises to the lower legs what is that
00:01:14
about where does she get that she's not a kickboxer she's not in karate that I know of she looks like a typical nice
00:01:23
girl you know very feminine looking um how' she get those bruises down there and Brian enton joins me live now
00:01:34
with this remarkable story that he has doggedly pursued um were you surprised by these findings I mean this
00:01:40
pathologist really really thinks that this was staged you know I was surprised by what
00:01:48
he has uncovered he's been working the case for 10 years uh Ashley he says it is staged that this whole scene was
00:01:55
staged and that he has the evidence to prove it that perhaps Ellen Greenberg didn't even die from the stab wounds
00:02:02
this is a highly respected forensic pathologist he does autopsies four different counties here in Pennsylvania
00:02:08
was hired by the greenbergs he's done 14,000 autopsies overall he says he has never seen anything like what happened
00:02:16
to Ellen Greenberg and all of this craziness uh that has gone on for the last 14 years listen to what he says
00:02:22
about it being staged when I look at the scene first thing I notice when I look at it I think
00:02:27
synthetically is oh my goodness this scene is staged how do I know it's staged because I see her back up against
00:02:34
the cabinets in the kitchen her arms are down by her side the left arm hand is holding onto a towel there's no blood on
00:02:43
the towel there's no blood on her hand there's blood to the back of her left hand to the right are her glasses now
00:02:49
obviously she's not sitting there stabbing herself and then wiping herself with the towel why does she have a towel
00:02:55
there and there's no blood on the base left hand she didn't use her left hand obviously to to stab herself and there's
00:03:01
a tow in there why would she have a tow in her hand if she's going to be stabbing herself and there's no blood in
00:03:06
it well she you didn't somebody else put it there it's staged he says the clean towel Ashley
00:03:14
doesn't make any sense he he believes it came from the bathroom he's frustrated that there was no luminol testing done
00:03:21
there was no testing by police done in the bathroom he showed me photos in the bathroom all of her stuff was packed up
00:03:27
her makeup bag was packed up her cell phone was sitting right on top of her bag he believes perhaps she was packing
00:03:33
up to leave when all of this went down he showed me the sink by the way the kitchen sink in the sink there was a pot
00:03:39
scrubber and there was a sponge and there were two knives none of that was tested he said uh so he's frustrated by
00:03:46
the whole thing I'm frustrated but I'm angry I'm just angry at the sheer stupidity and
00:03:54
the laziness or whatever else was a foot here the doctor was really great in terms of demonstrating how absolutely
00:04:04
asinine a a finding of suicide was what did he say yeah I mean you call it asinine and
00:04:11
now you know the big uh civil case that was supposed to happen in the courthouse
00:04:15
behind me this week the city of Philadelphia settled they settled and let's not forget the medical examiner
00:04:21
who did the autopsy has now said it was not a suicide so everybody seems to be agreeing um in that way at this point uh
00:04:29
but this is the way he explained in terms of all those stab wounds 20 stab wounds to the front of the back of the
00:04:35
body if you're going to call this a suicide not a homicide that somehow she gets she stands up or leans
00:04:45
over stabbing myself oh I get to get blood drops down there blood drops get down there oh not my hand sorry I use
00:04:53
the left hand shouldn't have done that just the right blood drops and then she falls to the ground she's on it
00:05:00
and everything else boot turns to the side oh excuse me let me stab myself again and drop the blood on the side
00:05:08
does that make any sense no no of course not right but that's what you're suggesting I mean you're not suggesting
00:05:15
so there's blood drops there they're coming straight down too and there's hair here I mean why the
00:05:20
heck's there hair in between here what's that from now what happens is when you get hair like this sometimes the person
00:05:29
is defending themselves and literally the victim actually pulls their hair out but
00:05:35
the other times the as salent is pulling the hair out either way you got hair here in the middle does that make any
00:05:42
sense to anybody of course not [Music] good news for the greenbergs after years of battling after
00:06:07
years of push back after years of not really getting much help from the people that should be helping them they finally
00:06:15
got their daughter's death the ruling on that the manner of her death to be re-evaluated so February 2nd of 20125
00:06:24
the greenbergs reached a settlement with the city the short of it is they were suing the city suing the medical
00:06:31
examiner's office that they had come to the wrong answer that they got their daughter's death wrong they had to be
00:06:39
taken to court to prove that there is cause to reopen this evaluation and reopen an
00:06:50
investigation I don't know what the it it sounds like even though a judge ruled on on their
00:06:57
behalf and even though they were pushing that this was a settlement with the city
00:07:02
which has agreed to pay an undisclosed amount of money but the big win here this is all they were really after is
00:07:10
Additionally the medical examiner's office will re-evaluate Ellen's manner of death Josh and Sandy consider
00:07:17
Osborne's verification so Osborne was one of the medical examiners Marlin Osborne and what they're saying is based
00:07:26
off of Osborne's verification quote to us it means that we've accomplished our role that Ellen did not commit suicide
00:07:34
here you have the original pathologist finally after 14 years after Ellen's death and five years after of
00:07:42
litigation acknowledging that her manner of death should not be suicide but should be deemed something else that is
00:07:50
from the Greenberg's family attorney 14 years after her death 5 years of litigation to get to where we are
00:08:00
absolutely crazy now let's see where this goes because again I keep coming back the most frustrating part to me is
00:08:07
it looks like somebody made an error along the way and then nobody bothered to correct it and then one error led to
00:08:16
another and to another right you you see this with the start of it I don't think
00:08:22
and I know I'm harping on the detectives here but that's that's really the tip of
00:08:26
the iceberg this is where it started right and had they just busted their butts and
00:08:32
got it right in the beginning and look does yours truly get it right every time I flip on the microphone absolutely no I
00:08:40
I gath they're human beings I can sympathize with everybody out there listening I can sympathize with you
00:08:47
being a human being sometimes it sucks and we're imperfect they had a job to do there was more heads there than just one
00:08:54
there were more shoulders there than just two that should have lightened the load a little bit and I think the errors
00:09:01
really started becoming blatantly obvious when the police department tells the property manager of the apartment
00:09:09
complex it's okay to let people into the apartment it's not considered a crime scat I have in front of me Captain if
00:09:18
you will humor me I put together a little exercise that I would like to do with you here
00:09:24
today where it's simply I wrote down some of the pros and cons so let's define that first a pro on my list is
00:09:35
things to me that point towards suicide being accurate the cons would be that no
00:09:42
this is not accurate with a suicide I also have a list of items that I I left for up in the middle is what I titled it
00:09:50
because I think that they're open to interpretation yeah if you want me to humor you or I mean I could tell you a
00:09:55
couple knock knock jokes maybe a a man walks into a bar or I could TI will you your
00:10:02
choice how about we we work on my list first and then we'll we'll start there so first off let's start let's examine
00:10:10
the conside because I think that that is there's a lot of that is just obvious right to to every person out there they
00:10:17
know already a lot of the reasons why you would look at this and go it's not a suicide so the first being the number of
00:10:24
wounds 20 we can agree on that that typically doesn't point to suicide the location of the
00:10:32
wounds would not Point toward suicide let me just add the amount of wounds and where the wounds are is not disputed in
00:10:43
any of the medical examinations correct the severity of the wounds might be disputed right the what it the effect
00:10:51
that it had on Ellen's body may be disputed right we talked about the postmortem we also talked about if the
00:10:59
spinal cord was damaged would it incapacitate her that to me those seem like less certainties that I I think
00:11:08
that we should still I still put question marks next to both of those items but when we're viewing the portion
00:11:15
of my list that suggests that this that says yes this this points towards suicide I want to point out something
00:11:24
that is not discussed very much in this case which I think is an oversight on everybody's part this is not an argument
00:11:34
of was it suicide or not it's not that simple it's your list has to keep in mind that if it's not suicide it is a
00:11:44
homicide right so you you must have things that don't you can't just simply say it is a homicide because because I
00:11:52
don't think I see things that are indicative of a suicide you also have to see evidence of an actual homicide as
00:12:00
well so the things that really concerned me the new meds we know that she's on new medication we know that by her
00:12:08
communication with her family we know that she was prescribed some what I described as narcotics I think that I
00:12:16
think that they are technically labeled as such I know for kopen at one time you
00:12:20
had to have like a stamped sealed it wasn't it wasn't just a note from your doctor or where they call it in they
00:12:28
they had to give me something like special certificate here in the state of Ohio to get that so we know she's on new
00:12:33
medication and I want to point this out this is the scary thing about medication
00:12:38
anybody out there that thinks you can just take a pill and your problem will go away whether it be a physical ailment
00:12:43
emotional mental what have you that's not true I wish that that were true it's not true and to carry that a step
00:12:51
further where my area of concern is with some of these medications all of our bodies are
00:12:57
different all of our chemistry is slightly different we do not know how person a and person B are not going to
00:13:03
react 1,000% the same to every medication out there they just aren't so I do always have concern in any of these
00:13:11
cases when a person is taking new medication medication that is new to them and look this is described as a
00:13:19
combination of medication another item for me Captain that might Point toward suicide is we do know that regardless of
00:13:27
who searched for What on 's computer we do know that her family and friends were
00:13:32
concerned about her well-being at this time leading up to her death this one frightens me this one frightens me to
00:13:40
even think about it because I think of people closest to me and and how concerned I would be for them if I had
00:13:48
witnessed this when she is out with her friend and they are looking for dresses that's supposed to be a happy time some
00:13:56
of my favorite times have been spent with my friends when she breaks down and cries in that
00:14:02
moment that is terrifying to me because I've unfortunately in my life suicide is not
00:14:10
something that is completely foreign to me and not completely foreign to my family and one sign of obvious concern
00:14:20
that I have with individuals is if I experience somebody uncontrollably crying in a in a in a
00:14:29
situation that doesn't warrant a breakdown like that like when a person is so that their emotions and
00:14:38
feelings and thoughts are so out of their control that they do this it whenever I experience that or if I were
00:14:46
to experience that going forward with anybody that I knew I would be raising the flag like you wouldn't believe
00:14:52
because that to me is I think is something that I can't explain it it it gives me great concern it gives me great
00:14:59
concern but on this point of just proving or just saying that it's not a suicide because of this item or that
00:15:08
item or this detail or that detail you actually have to prove to me that it's a homicide as well so one big question I
00:15:16
have here Captain is where's all the blood where on our number one suspect If This Were a homicide Sam
00:15:25
Goldberg where is the blood right when when police showed up at the scene did they did they check the washer and dryer
00:15:32
to see if anything had been recently washed right did they check the trash can to see if anything had been thrown
00:15:38
away clothing I'm sure I I hope that they did I don't think that they bungled this so badly that that they didn't take
00:15:44
those steps yeah but did they do test where they test the drains he could have easily took a shower did he discard of
00:15:52
anything at any place other in the building right did he pull like an OJ where he took a little bag with them and
00:15:59
and conveniently put it in a trash can that wasn't on his property did he cuz if she were attacked and killed I would
00:16:07
expect to find blood on this individual on the person that killed her either on their person or on their clothing if if
00:16:17
he is responsible was he able to to discard of those items to where it wasn't obvious for for the police to
00:16:25
look for I have concern because I have concern of their investigation within the four walls of that apartment I
00:16:32
should have concern of their investigation outside of the Four Walls of that apartment was the building properly
00:16:39
searched were people properly interviewed and why did it take so long for one Department to communicate to
00:16:48
another department that no the security man didn't go up stairs with Sam because
00:16:55
they seem to put a lot of weight in the thought that went up there well this investigation puts a lot of weight into
00:17:02
Sam's statements to them at first they're looking at this as a possible homicide but based on what the boyfriend
00:17:12
Sam which would be our number one suspect or Person of Interest they then say well based on what he told us we're
00:17:20
leaning more towards suicide but then once you find out that one of his statements is not
00:17:25
true then the question becomes did was it just a mistake did he just tell you the wrong information because
00:17:34
it's a mistake because this is a tragic and traumatic situation that he was in or was he telling you a fib and if he
00:17:43
was telling you a fib what else has he told you or what other statements have he told you that are also lies I don't
00:17:51
understand why her purse cell phone and laptop needed to be collected by an attorney that is essentially
00:17:59
representing Sam a day after this death there are reasons to explain that they're not good
00:18:06
enough I don't care there's not good enough for me and and a large part of that is had this been deemed a a crime
00:18:13
scene it should have been left as a crime scene minimum 48 hours right at least get one more look inside of there
00:18:22
because you might have miss something and and and look they clearly did miss a lot of things here regardless if this is
00:18:27
a suicide or a homicide and then as far as blood evidence goes this is a a sticking point for me okay
00:18:36
okay I worry that the investigation wasn't thorough because they didn't have a full
00:18:45
understanding of the victim and the wounds at the time before she was removed remember let's go back to the
00:18:53
911 call let's pretend for a moment that we can say with complete confidence that
00:19:00
Sam experienced this horrible horrific experience of losing somebody that he loved dearly and found her in their
00:19:08
apartment in that scenario he clearly does not know what wounds she has on her person other than what's obvious to him
00:19:18
as he's observing her while on the phone with 911 what does he say to the dispatch to the 911 operator he says I
00:19:27
think maybe she hit her head so again if he's innocent and he's describing what he his eyes are telling him to the
00:19:35
person on the phone he doesn't know what injuries she truly has and then he's encouraged to perform CPR so she says
00:19:46
the operator tells Sam take off remove the shirt so you can perform CPR he starts to do so and then he says oh my
00:19:54
God there's a knife or he says something to the effect of there's there's a knife
00:19:58
in her chest you think he would have saw that knife before then that's what I'm getting at
00:20:03
if he were perfectly innocent and he is describing the body as he's viewing it or let's pretend that he's guilty and he
00:20:11
decides in the moment you know what it's probably a good idea to describe what I'm seeing it as I'm seeing it because
00:20:18
they might be able to prove otherwise later if the knife wasn't obvious to him if he couldn't see the knife if he
00:20:24
thought that she had suffered some kind of head wound what I'm getting at here is you've seen the diagrams have been
00:20:31
put together about her injuries and where they were inflicted on her body if detectives get to the scene and they
00:20:38
only believe that she has these wounds to the front of her if that's all they can view in the moment part of that's on
00:20:48
them for not doing a a full examination but if they can't see that big head wound if they can't see all those little
00:20:55
stab wounds to the back of the neck what I'm getting at here here Captain is if those detectives go into that crime
00:21:01
scene and leave the scene with the belief that oh she was stabbed like three times or four times don't you
00:21:09
think that lends itself more to them thinking well we don't need to be looking for a whole lot of blood here
00:21:14
this certainly looks like a suicide but had all of those investigators been told
00:21:20
prior to entering the room this poor girl in here she's got 21 she's got 20 stab wounds to her body right just that
00:21:29
number alone I would think that even if you were bad at your job you would be conducting that investigation very
00:21:36
differently right out the gate and I just wonder how many of these 20 stab wounds are weren't obvious to any to not
00:21:45
just a lay person but to police Personnel well within 48 Hours of the investigation you would think that they
00:21:53
would have the 911 call the recording of it and you would know based on the the medical examination and your personal
00:22:03
experience could you see a head wound I mean she had very dark hair I I would almost argue it would be difficult to
00:22:13
see a head wound and then again the lack of blood it always goes back to well if if
00:22:21
her heart wasn't beating when she was being stabbed then there would be a lack of blood evidence well true but the
00:22:29
statement and again and I I know I've already said we can't put a lot of weight into the findings but the claim
00:22:35
is that if any of the wounds were committed or yes committed postmortem it was one they only cite one some of the
00:22:45
statements that they give makes it sound like the door is open still for possibility of more than one postmortem
00:22:52
wound but I could only find definitive statements of one so if that if we are to believe that then we we know that the
00:23:02
other 19 were not there was blood flow during the other 19 or for the majority of that 19 so I again we do see a good
00:23:13
amount of blood at the scene I I don't know I really thought that the the that big head wound to the back of the head
00:23:20
that to me looked like something different uh from pictures again I'm only seeing pictures right but I just I
00:23:28
don't see a way that somebody kills her and then is able to be interacting with individuals very
00:23:37
quick you know relatively quickly afterward and seen on surveillance footage and we don't have any blood now
00:23:45
that's not to say that it went overlooked that's not to say that um he wasn't slippery enough that he figured
00:23:52
out how to lock the door behind him and figured out how to get rid of a few items because he if if it went down if
00:23:59
he if he killed her and then went to the gym who's to say he didn't kill her 30 minutes before he went to the gym or or
00:24:07
within that hour there's like an hour more than an hour where his cell phone isn't active and it's believed that they
00:24:13
were both in the apartment at the same time so how much time did he have to manipulate the scene manipulate the body
00:24:22
conceal and Destroy evidence and I would really want to know a lot more about the relationship
00:24:29
between him and his cousin why you know even if it's his best friend it seems like a strange call to
00:24:37
be making in the moment and oh by the way the cousin's father his Uncle Sam's uncle is an attorney and from what I've
00:24:45
heard a pretty good one and then they're over there collecting things from the crime scene
00:24:51
very quickly I mean it makes sense that he he should have a suit I mean his fiance's been uh just passed and there's
00:25:00
going to be some kind of service so a suit is not an unreasonable request but then you wonder what what would have
00:25:09
happened differently had police said well yes we can get a he can get a suit but we will accompany him into the scene
00:25:17
into the apartment or he can he can give us instruction and we will go and and retrieve the suit for him I'm not going
00:25:26
to go as far to say that this office of the Court went as far to openly get rid of evidence or conceal evidence I I'm
00:25:35
not willing to to go that far I I don't know what kind of attorney he is I'm not
00:25:42
saying that there's no attorney out there that wouldn't break the rules I believe most of them to play by the
00:25:48
rules but there's so many question marks and again it really comes down to the very simple fact of I do think that with
00:26:00
the right amount of smarts somebody could rig that door and really his Alibi is the lock on that door like you said
00:26:08
earlier Captain I don't think it's impossible for somebody to lock that door behind them I know he could do it
00:26:14
because I've done it myself look if you've listened to hundreds of episodes of True Crime garage you should now know
00:26:22
that if the captain says he can do it anybody could do it yeah that specific lock you're saying on you've done it on
00:26:30
one that that looks very similar yeah I'm not saying that I've done it on on that apartment itself right so let's
00:26:37
let's let me describe this so it would be like a you have this latch and you would turn it right you would you would
00:26:43
turn it toward the door to the left and the latch is in this scenario this lock is basically two metal pieces that the
00:26:52
two metal arms that connect at the end and when you put it move it over to the left it covers up and it it encases that
00:27:01
bolt or that metal ball and then when the door is open it doesn't matter if there's any other lock on the door
00:27:09
because that would take effect first if somebody tried to open up the door if there's any other lock that lock would
00:27:15
prevent them from opening the door before this lock even comes into play now if they get past any other lock or
00:27:23
the door is not locked with any other mechanism then what would happen is a person could open the door and then this
00:27:30
ball catches onto the metal and eventually you can't move the door anymore and you really can only move the
00:27:36
door what would you say captain an inch and a half maybe three inches at the most yeah I mean it it acts similar like
00:27:44
you were saying before to like a chain on on a door correct but also when you have now your lawyer your representative
00:27:55
going to collect your suit which again that's that makes a lot of sense and it it somewhat makes sense to me that you'd
00:28:05
take both laptops if you didn't know which one was your clients I'm going to take both of them or Hell we'll take the
00:28:11
whole apartment because we've been told by police it's not a crime scene right and that's a mistake by law enforcement
00:28:17
but it's also a mistake why didn't law enforcement take her cell phone because to me if he states that he is gone right
00:28:28
a couple things let's say he takes her cell phone with him well then we would have movement on that cell phone so if
00:28:38
that cell phone tracked all the way to the gym then we would know that this boyfriend somehow took her phone and
00:28:48
went to the gym so then when he's texting her we know that those are [ __ ] texts so then we' know that
00:28:56
he's lying about the security guard we know he's lying about the text therefore he's basically lying about everything so
00:29:05
my other question then for law enforcement is why haven't you given this phone back to the family and is
00:29:11
there any digital forensics that we could do to have a better understanding of what happened that day or is there a
00:29:21
way to prove and if it depends on the outfit that's doing the investigation because
00:29:28
everybody's we've talked about this very recently with the park bench murders case the cracking of these
00:29:37
phones what is would there be any indicators to people that have this expertise to be able to point to things
00:29:46
and go well this suggests that something was scrubbed from the phone this is an indicator that something was deleted and
00:29:55
buried on the phone and we can't retrieve it because if there's activity that goes
00:30:01
beyond what what we believe that we have here now that we can review now then it
00:30:07
starts to tell us that maybe something else actually happened and that maybe there was something that led up to this
00:30:14
explosion what that would tell us I don't think it's suggestive of either outcome
00:30:20
because I would expect to see something but but either way either if she did this to herself or if she was attacked
00:30:28
it was a frenzied attack it was a frenzied violent suicide it could have all happened very quickly but I got to
00:30:41
believe it's reactionary either one it's a it's a very difficult case and I'm a little
00:30:49
worried and I'm worried Captain because I was really excited when I saw that the
00:30:55
greenbergs finally got what they deserve that this this case was mishandled and so
00:31:03
who who be it for them to tell me that my daughter committed suicide when it looks to me like you've not handled this
00:31:10
properly all along and then the other thing this is another part that's really aggravating is it seems to be based off
00:31:20
of court documents and filings and protocol that the medical examiner off office put a lot of weight in the
00:31:30
idea that the security man and I I know that that's a really dumb term but that's that's how he's referred to in a
00:31:38
lot of these different tellings of the story so we'll stick with that that the security man was present with Sam when
00:31:44
he broke down the door it sounds like the medical examiner's office put a lot of weight in that fact now we later
00:31:52
learn based off of Philip Hon's statement that he did not as Sam up to the sixth floor he was not
00:32:01
present when the door was busted in fact police there is evidence surveillance footage of Sam going up to the sixth
00:32:10
floor by himself unaccompanied he's in the elevator all by himself one really aggravating part of this is we can sit
00:32:18
here and go well we we're concerned about what they didn't collect at the at the scene what they
00:32:25
didn't collect at the building what work was not done but one thing that we can say is when that footage of Sam going up
00:32:33
to the sixth floor by himself when they found that footage they didn't find it at the apartment complex they found the
00:32:39
police had that so we know they collected that we know that for all these years they knew that he went up
00:32:45
there by himself well how the hell does the right arm not know what the hell the
00:32:49
left arm is doing why was so much weight put into that to begin with and then second of all it it seems to me like
00:32:56
everybody was everybody that had a hand in this being ruled a suicide simply thought 100% that there's no way for
00:33:03
that door to be locked other than from locking it from the inside [Music] [Applause]
00:33:18
[Music] are you confused yet or are you leaning one way or or another well you should
00:33:35
let us know at true Crim garage.com cheers to you Colonel talk hands in the air I think the big
00:33:43
question for me at the start is just simply could somebody do this to themselves is this a type of suicide
00:33:54
that we see we hear about people shooting themselves or overdosing but this is not a common manner of suicide
00:34:06
so I think that's the first thing that you have to wrap your head around if you're thinking this is a suicide and I
00:34:14
and I think with all the communication with her family and friends that if it would have been a overdose or or some
00:34:23
other manner that I think the family would understand that could see signs you know it's it's always after the fact
00:34:32
that people will see more signs obviously but I think the manner in which this took place this tragic
00:34:41
event it just doesn't make a lot of logical sense to most people and I think that's the you know the big red flag but
00:34:50
I also can't get past the idea that within within a couple hours you're going to be getting the statements from
00:34:57
the boyfriend you're going to be getting the statements from the security guard and when those statements don't line up
00:35:05
why the my question if I'm law enforcement is why why don't they line up MH did he misspeak or did he lie and
00:35:13
if he lied what what is the reason for that and again then it's don't clean up the crime scene give me a few days and
00:35:23
that doesn't mean you have to go back multiple times to the crime scene it it could dis simply be let me collect all
00:35:30
the evidence let me review all the evidence and to and to see if there's any thing if there's any necessary
00:35:39
reason to go back into that apartment but here's the problem they didn't even do that correctly they didn't collect
00:35:47
her cell phone they didn't they didn't collect the computers and they should have done that immediately whether they
00:35:55
were leaning towards suicide or not they should again it's like a broken record investigate it as a homicide
00:36:03
until you figure out it's not a homicide and and most departments will behave that way most investigators are taught
00:36:11
to conduct their protocols and their investigation as such now I will say something in defense of the detectives
00:36:20
here we talked about this in our Pendleton quadruple homicide case one thing that we pointed out that the
00:36:28
detectives did great was a good call on their end was that when they arrived on the
00:36:35
scene at the this horrific scene four people dead in the same residence they recognized right away that every person
00:36:43
that lived in that dwelling is now deceased none of them can give me the detective permission to
00:36:51
take anything from the scene in fact I don't I I mean I can start looking around but
00:36:58
but if I want all of this to hold up in court what I need to do here is I need to get the proper channels and get a
00:37:05
search War so I can start looking through everything at the scene and pull things out of here Philadelphia PD did
00:37:12
do this in this situation they did the same thing they didn't pull out a bunch of items and I don't blame them for not
00:37:18
doing so I I and I know what you're saying here Captain I you're not saying that they never were going to collect
00:37:26
these items that's not the error they made you're you're not saying that they not
00:37:32
collecting them that night was was the error that they made because we know they wanted to collect these items and
00:37:39
they were going to do it properly and get the search warrant we know that because they did get a search warrant
00:37:44
and they executed that search warrant the following day the major screwup is when they allowed other people back into
00:37:52
that scene because those people removed things that were on their list of items that they wanted to collect and I
00:38:01
believe that these items were in the possession of schwarzman or and or Sam Goldberg for
00:38:11
approximately two days before they made their way to police as part of that search War one part where I really
00:38:19
struggle in this case too is the number of wounds because there's so much of me man that says there's no way I I think
00:38:28
that at some point 20 wounds is too many that she wouldn't have been able to do all of that that I do agree with the
00:38:36
thought that maybe at some point she would have get been incapacitated to the point where she couldn't continue to
00:38:42
harm herself I agree I feel so strongly about that but at the same time I can review a case that we that we know all
00:38:50
the facts of with an individual like Arty Lang from the Howard Stern Show he chugged a bottle of bleach and
00:39:00
stabbed himself in the stomach nine times and slit his wrist so he was able to do all that and thankfully his mother
00:39:10
finds him and he's rushed off to the hospital and they're able to save his life but I mean to me when I'm when I'm
00:39:18
really trying to analyze this and we're we're already behind the eightball here Captain because we're not doctors we're
00:39:24
not Pathologists we have to we have to rely on these experts and oh by the way we have different experts
00:39:32
telling us different findings in this one particular case I I tell everybody you know if you got a buddy that's
00:39:41
bitching and complaining like oh man I got $4,500 to get my truck fixed what's wrong with it this that and the other
00:39:47
thing did you get a second opinion no no no but they're bitching and complaining
00:39:52
about the $4,500 right like you friend don't know Vehicles why would you just believe
00:40:01
blindly believe this one person take it and get a second opinion before you shell out 4,500 bucks you might find the
00:40:09
next mechanic whether he's he or she's better or worse at their job than the previous one might come up with an
00:40:16
entirely different diagnosis that has a different price tag on it and that to me
00:40:22
seems like the situation that we have here in this case where it's get a second opinion and that one's different
00:40:30
it's a strange and unfortunate case because regardless there's no way to feel good about any type of winning in
00:40:39
this case if you're right that it's a suicide this poor family has suffered in disbelief for all these years and spent
00:40:49
a lot of their time and effort to to change the ruling if it was suicide poor young man
00:40:58
Sam Goldberg lost somebody very near and dear to him and this young lady was suffering so terribly that she did this
00:41:08
to herself even if you can prove that that doesn't feel good but if you can prove the
00:41:14
reverse I maybe it feels worse it's there's just like no winning in this case and and it's really I'm I'm happy
00:41:22
for the Goldbergs because they did finally get the outcome that they wanted the outcome that I think is correct and
00:41:31
that this case needs to be re-evaluated it needs to be reinvestigated I feel good problem
00:41:39
becomes time though yes and that's what I'm saying I'm worried that it took so long to get this one part of the
00:41:47
investigation changed do you have any confidence that it's that that they're going to be able
00:41:54
to see this thing through and F and if she if they do say it was absolutely a homicide that they'll end up with
00:42:00
charging somebody I just don't feel good about it in any way at all yeah the three questions that kept ringing in my
00:42:09
mind was one is it even possible to commit suicide in this manner to what actions of the boyfriend
00:42:20
were the most concerning and then three now what now with this reverse is there any chance of us getting
00:42:31
answers I hate when people say well the family deserves closure the answers might not lead towards
00:42:40
closure but will they even get answers and I just because of the time the passing of time I just think that's
00:42:50
going to be impossible and to make sure that we do a good job of cleaning our plates here today I know that they'll be
00:42:57
a person or two out there that will say you guys didn't even evaluate the 911 call look the 911 call sounds weird to
00:43:04
me does that mean anything no I I frankly I think that the majority of 911 calls they all seem for one another
00:43:12
reason for one reason or another sound weird to me the person making the call sounds weird to me at different
00:43:20
parts I do feel like he some of it is a put on I don't but again I don't know how I would react in in that situation
00:43:28
finding a person the way that he says that he found her and so I don't put a lot of effort into analyzing the 911
00:43:38
call but I'm glad that we played it at the top of our coverage of this case because it is it tells you right away
00:43:47
that the level of mystery that that is going to be seen throughout this case it really sets the stage for the
00:43:55
strangeness and uncertainty that that come with this case where I said that I feel not good earlier I will say that I
00:44:04
do feel good about this that I do think that everything is heading in the right direction the direction that it should
00:44:11
have been going in a long time ago as far as Samuel Goldberg goes one question that a lot of people have when they
00:44:20
review this case is well 14 years after her death 5 years of litigation to get this far in the case well where is Sam
00:44:29
Goldberg now and I can only tell you what the internet tells me but for my understanding Captain he is lives a
00:44:38
private life he has a wife he has a family he's works as a TV producer I think CNN said that he's
00:44:48
credited with some lesser known small films I've also seen people suggest that at some point he was a producer on some
00:44:57
Sports show but that's as much as we know about Sam Goldberg today and we've had much more eyes on the greenbergs
00:45:06
throughout this whole process as they've been openly fighting to get this changed
00:45:11
for their [Music] daughter very difficult case we want to hear from you head over to True Crim
00:45:29
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00:45:36
listeners for everyone that's been listening for the month of February you already are
00:45:43
aware that all of the beer fund donations for the month of February are going to go to keeping our girls safe
00:45:52
it's a wonderful organization that was created to honor Ohio murder victim Sierra jogen in 2016 Sierra went for a
00:46:02
bicycle ride in rural Northwest Ohio Sierra was kidnapped less than 500 feet from her home and it was later learned
00:46:11
that she had been murdered by a very dangerous man a man who was previously convicted of violent offenses he was a
00:46:18
violent offender that should never have been out on the streets James warley killed Sierra keeping our girls safe is
00:46:25
a Grassroots organ organization created in her memory and created to honor this young woman and more importantly created
00:46:35
to advocate for young ladies everywhere to educate young ladies everywhere Empower them and fight against violence
00:46:43
towards women everywhere this organization they offer free survival classes free self-defense classes
00:46:50
focused on women's safety they do a lot of these classes at high schools in the state of Ohio
00:46:57
so for the month of February True Crime garage has committed all beer fund donations to going to the keeping our
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girls safe nonprofit organization and as a thank you for your help in this effort we will choose three
00:47:11
beer fund contributors at random and mail them a keep our girls safe safety pack which includes a door alarm a
00:47:19
window alarm seat belt cutter window breaker for your car self-defense keychain a flashlight self-defense tip
00:47:27
card and we're going to include a sign copy of my book the deli murders as well for more information you can go to
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to the Beer fund for the month of February we thank you and thank you so much for listening until next week be
00:47:52
good be kind and don't litter [Music] [Applause] [Music]