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foreign [Music] [Music] garage wherever you are whatever you're doing thanks for listening I'm your host
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Nick and with me as always is a man who is very tightly holding on to some tasty
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little nuggets of alien technology here is the captain yeah if you squeeze me too hard I might fart it's good to be
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seen and good to see you thanks for listening thanks for telling a friend [Music]
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this week we are very excited to be featuring gray Monday 2021 this is a decadent that's right decadent Bourbon
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Barrel aged Imperial Stout with hazelnuts by the brewery garage grade four and a quarter bottle caps out of
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five ABV 19 so again drink this one at home in your garage we are drinking it in ours and here are some friends that
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came to party with us this week first up we have a cheers to Kim and Spencer Ohio
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and a big shout out to Glorious and Orlando Florida and here's the cheers to Roberta and beautiful Salt Lake City
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Utah a big wheel like your jib to Tristan and Del City Oklahoma and here's the cheers to Jennifer in Portland
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Oregon and last but certainly not least we have a cheers to Emily and Ottawa Canada everyone we just mentioned they
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went to our website and they contributed to this week's beer fund and for that we
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thank you yeah BW double r-u-n if you've been listening for years and you haven't
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donated what you're waiting for and if you need more TCG in your ear balls make sure you check out our other show called
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off the Record it is off the hizzy for shizzy and you can check out that link at truecrime
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garage.com and that is enough of the business all right everybody gather around grab a chair grab a beer let's
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talk some true crime [Music] [Music] over the years during these trailers we have provided
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differing definitions and opinions about sexual sadists or the great white sharks
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as Roy Hazelwood calls them in his books the evil that men do and dark dreams and on several occasions we presented
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case studies from John Douglas Ann and Alan Burgess and Robert ressler's crime classification manual
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today we present another case study from the manual case study number 134. sadistic murder as it pertains to this
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week's killer who is a real-life monster with a unique fetish a sexual sadist is someone who has
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established an enduring pattern of sexual arousal in response to sadistic imagery
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sexual gratification is obtained from torture involving excessive mental and physical means
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the offender derives the greatest satisfaction from the victim's response to torture
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sexually sadistic fantasies in which sexual acts are paired with domination degradation and violence are translated
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into criminal action that results in death sadistic murder victimology has some similarities to the victimology of
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organized sexual homicides the victims are chosen through systematic stalking and surveillance
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they are approached under the pretext such as the offenders requesting or offering assistance
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asking directions or impersonating a police officer a ruse may be employed such as posing as a talent scout looking
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for prospective models or actresses and promising them jobs there are often multiple crime scenes
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involved with this type of sexual homicide the place of the initial encounter the
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torture slash death scene and or the body disposal site the very nature of this crime
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sadism expressed through torture necessitates a secluded or solitary place for the prolonged period of time
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the offender spends with a victim this captivity may be from a few hours to As Long As several weeks
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the offender's residents may be used if it can provide the required seclusion the body is routinely concealed
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especially with the more organized offender it is possible that there are implications of Overkill and or deep
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personalization for pragmatic reasons often to obscure the victim's identity the offender May tamper with the crime
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scene by staging secondary criminal activity most often rape or robbery to Veil the
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primary motive of sadistic murder The Act of Killing is often eroticized death comes in a slow deliberate manner
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that is savored by the offender but because an unconscious or dead victim does not afford the offender the
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gratification he seeks great care is taken not to end the victim's life prematurely
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in several cases offenders not only took special measures to keep their victims conscious but actually revived near-dead
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victims in order to cause additional suffering one of the many search warrant suggestions for this case type of
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offender is to look for items dealing with the offenses these would be written records
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manuscripts Diaries threatening letters calendars sketches drawings audio tapes videotapes and photographs the Green
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River Killer Gary Ridgeway was highly focused on the necks of his many victims for the Malala Force killer Dayton Leroy
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Rogers his thing was the feat of his victims and in this week's case study the serial offender was fascinated by
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the breaking of Bones this is true crime garage and this is the case the Bone Breaker killer
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[Music] this week we go to Baraboo Wisconsin Baraboo is a city of about 12 000 people
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and is part of sock County Sauk County is located in an absolutely beautiful part of the state of Wisconsin which is
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not only a beautiful state but a proud beer drinking State as well by the way our story really starts off on the 4th
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of July one of my favorite days of the year this is Independence Day 1994. this is a Monday but it's a
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holiday so normally most people might sleep in on this day but 14 year old Christian
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Steiner started working at his first job just weeks ago Chris was working at the
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McDonald's a few miles from his family's home and on this holiday Monday Chris was
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scheduled to work at the McDonald's so his parents George and Kathy went to wake Chris up at 6 15 a.m that morning
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but Chris was not there he was nowhere to be found they look around the home he's not
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already up and starting his day he's nowhere to be found so George and Kathy called the police reporting that
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something strange was going on and they didn't know where their son was so this is what the police and Chris's
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parents George and Kathy were able to determine they found two doors unlocked these are
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two doors on the ground level of the home and next they found a window screen with
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a slit in it now on July 3rd it was a very comfortable night as far as temperature
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goes and the family left many of the windows open that night at the house the screen with the slit was for a
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window to Chris's older brother's room this bedroom was located on the ground level and the Slit was described as
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large enough that someone could climb through it now Chris's brother was not there that
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night in fact he was staying over at a friend's house so the police and the concerned parents
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had a couple of theories the theory they all liked the best was that Chris along with the help of a
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friend or some friends snuck out of the house and at some point he would probably be back soon or maybe he might
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even wait a while to come home knowing that he's going to be in trouble for sneaking out of the house yeah or he
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might just find his own way to get to work the other possibility that they thought is that maybe he ran away from
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home this would be a possibility of course we are talking about a 14 year old boy but his parents said look we
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don't have any problems with Chris we don't argue with him he doesn't argue with us everyone in the family gets
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along very well and they said although Chris did not get very good grades in school he had recently started this job
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and was really liking his job you know there are some kids that are able to shine in the classroom and then
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there are some that are just great little worker bees and shine more in a workplace type setting well right that
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was Chris's thing here's what they told the police because keep in mind when they went to bed
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the day before on July 3rd everything was fine the Steiners knew where all of their
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kids were so they told police all about what went down on July 3rd and they said that on July 3rd at about
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3 pm both parents picked up Chris from the McDonald's where Chris worked Chris helped his mom get ready for dinner then
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Chris played with his little brother for a while in the backyard George said that at 10 pm he went
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upstairs to check on Chris and found him asleep still in his clothes but asleep in his clothes on his bed so George says
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he shut the light off in Chris's room and that was the last time either parent saw Chris by the next morning at 6 15
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a.m he is gone I would be guessing here a couple things you're going to have some indicators to
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tell you that he probably did not go to work on his own one you don't have a note from him it was agreed upon when
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they went to sleep the night before that the parents would be driving him early in the morning and you're probably going
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to find his work uniform in the closet or still you know in his room somewhere so this is a really interesting case to
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look at as this is not the typical situation that we have encountered before here in the garage in most cases
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there is a major concern and panic normally we have terrified parents but in those cases we are talking about a
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parent waking up to a cut screen and a toddler missing from the home here it could just be what it seems that
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he snuck out in the middle of the night met up with some friends and they got into a little teenage boy mischief and
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he would be back and well unfortunately that does not end up being the case right but a couple other things too I
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mean he's 14 so it's possible is there some girl that he was talking to that they didn't know of that he wanted to
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meet up with or he has this new job he's working with people probably older than
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him did he meet up with one of them right and I think that word friends encompasses all of those possibilities
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because you're right Captain he is 14 he's at that age where you don't always tell Mom and Dad everything that you're
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doing when it's not on the up and up and there were some other indicators and I'm a little reluctant to throw these
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out there because I could only find one source that stated this that they had found some muddy shoe prints inside the
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home and my guess here and this is why I'm a little hesitant to go down this road but
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my guess here is that those muddy shoe prints would have indicated to the parents and to the police that somebody
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entered the home and then possibly left with Chris out one of the doors meaning I'm guessing
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because of this slit in the the window screen that possibly there was Footprints from that cut screen
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through the home because we have a statement later from George from from Chris's father that
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says you know I think that he someone may have come to the house and left with Chris one of his friends
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may have come to the house and left with Chris because he throws out there in that same in that same statement that it
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would have been somebody that knew the layout of our home so what I'm guessing if these Footprints exist
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um is that it showed not somebody walking around the house trying to look for something
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you know this is a fairly large home there's multiple people that are living and staying there
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that the footprints if they did exist were an indicator to Chris's parents and to police that whoever entered the home
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knew where they were going meaning one they went through Chris's brother's room because they may have known that the
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brother was gone for the night and it might be one of the only ground level bedrooms of the home
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and then made their way to Chris's room and then left through one of the doors on the ground level leaving it unlocked
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behind them well and again this is different than like a child abduction because the perpetrator could come in
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the house and carry the victim out this is a 14 year old young man basically so it's
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yeah I'm guessing he'd be pretty difficult to carry out on your own yeah and what I was pointing out earlier too
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Captain is that again this is a situation where I could tell from the the parents statements and from the
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police statements at the time well I should say the sheriff of the Sheriff's Department
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that get it right nobody was really panicked it just seemed like this was you know Boyhood childish uh Mischief
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going on and the initial belief was that at some point on this day on this Monday
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on this holiday Monday he'll come back home and oh he's going to be in trouble when he gets back here yeah now the
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Steiners say that they spent that first night waiting up until dawn sitting on their front porch expecting
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that at any point he would come home they said that they would stare down every car that pulled onto their street
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thinking okay here he is someone's dropping him off but as the sun came up Tuesday July 5th
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Chris never came home well yeah and again like you said before then at some point midday you're going
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kids not even in trouble anymore in my mind I just want him home yeah you know and
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now it's getting dark something's wrong that would be the moment once it started getting dark
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where I go something's wrong man my boys should be home by now unfortunately most
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parents out there have had a similar situation where they go from being angry or upset at their child yeah to feeling
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stressed and panicked and just worried out of their mind worried sick as my mom used to say and so this is that
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situation and most of the time for parents the situation ends up being it's it's no real big deal it was just a
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misunderstanding but here as you're pointing out captain now it's the next day and your son still has not come home
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and the Steiners went on to say that they spent the next few days passing out flyers looking for their son and George
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took to sleeping on the couch with the front door unlocked every night because he knew that Chris did not have his own
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set of keys to the house yeah so that at any time at any hour of the day if Chris
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returned he would be able to walk inside the home yeah it becomes a very kind of sad desperate scene that's right
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and Captain we do get some information that may give some more weight to The Runaway Theory and this is per the
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sheriff this is the sock County sheriff and he has a cool sounding old school country Sheriff name this is Sheriff
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Butch steinhurst he says there were two unconfirmed let's be very clear about that two unconfirmed let's underline
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that word unconfirmed reports where someone says they saw Chris Steiner near the Quick Trip convenience store this
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would be on July 4th so the first day that he was missing and then there's another unconfirmed report of a sighting
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of Chris at the local Kmart this is the next day on July 5th well again he's working with individuals that are
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probably a little bit older than him some of them probably live on their own so it starts making you wonder did he go
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look I'm not that great at school but I like this job maybe I've worked maybe I got a couple paychecks and I got a
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little bit of money now hey I'm gonna go move in with Steve that runs the friar what do you think law enforcement would
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be in contact with obviously that McDonald's and any employee that works there well and we're talking about a
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town of twelve thousand people right so it should be fairly easy to ask the appropriate people and talk to anybody
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that would have known Chris and question where he may have been and usually when
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those situations are going on you do have people that know where the child is know where the teenager is but I'm
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saying when you have a couple people going hey I think I saw him then you start going well is he staying
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with somebody and they're not coming forward right and that's where you go okay maybe the sheriff's department had
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it right in the beginning and this is a runaway situation foreign [Music] all right we're back from the beer break
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and cheers mates to everybody in the back cheers to the crispiest of the kernelist
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of the colonelist cheers to you Captain so if I'm the sheriff right I'm all I'm Mr
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Butch right I'm looking at this first my first guess she snuck out with your friends
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to drink some beer smoke some pot right or maybe prank some houses that's what I'm thinking initially
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meet up with girls meet up with a girl go hang out with some older dudes that you've met at work yeah it's any number
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of things yeah you're right and maybe the older guys are gonna they're they're going through a hazing process who knows
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when that doesn't come through I I start going okay he's a runaway now we have these two possible sightings
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but they're not confirmed so I'm not leaning on that theory but that that's probably where I'm leaning
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towards but as more time goes by and then with these Footprints too so you go everybody's home
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they have a younger child younger child's still there the 14 year old is the one that goes missing and
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then you have this the other Sun just happens to not be there that night you have this rip in the screen
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as the sheriff I'm starting to wonder did something happen and did the parents like set up this
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scene you see what I'm saying and so I wonder if that's something they looked into
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as this kid's missing from what I could find here Captain Sheriff Butch steinhurst and his uh
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the people working under his command and his rules seem to be fairly thorough and
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so I'm sure that's probably something they looked at but here and as is the case in most situations I'm guessing
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there's probably some details uh about that night that we are not privy to right so um because there
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never seems to be that voice or that concern ever presented in any portion of the early stages of
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that case well we're not also privy to their actions their demeanor their tone and voice and which they're
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presenting any of this information to the sheriff that's correct and well basically what's going to
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happen here is that it's going to be hell week for the Steiners they last see Chris Sunday July 3rd at
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10 pm and then they go through hell all week long and on the next Sunday July 10th
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detectives showed up once again to the Steiner home knocked on the door and well they didn't necessarily have the
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worst news for the Steiners but it certainly was not good news detectives wanted to know if they could get Chris's
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dental records because a body had been found in the Wisconsin River in or near depending on
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the source the Pine Island Wildlife Refuge the Steiners provided the dental records for the detectives and the
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Steiners were no dummies they knew that if Sauk County detectives were at their door that these detectives
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would not have been on their doorstep if they did not think that the body was that of their son the next day the
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Steiners were notified that the body found in the Wisconsin River was their 14 year old son so now they knew that
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they had lost Chris forever so the body is recovered from the river but in the neighboring County so now you have
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counties you have two counties sock and Columbia investigating plus you have the Columbia
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County coroner and the Wisconsin State Pathologists all working the case according to the County coroner this is
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Keith Epps because of course he was asked to speculate when the body when it was recovered he was asked to
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speculate about the body and what they could infer from what they were seeing at the scene
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and Epson the sheriff both described the body as bloated and Epps adding that his guess would be
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that the body was in the river for at least three days because he says it usually takes about three days for
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the body to surface the local news media questioned this I'm guessing because either they received
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some bad information on this case or possibly due to a local rumor but they pose the question of well we
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heard or we were told that law enforcement believes that Chris was in the water for just two days and both the
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sheriff in the coroner were very very clear saying we don't know how long he was in the water but it was longer than
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two days again the coroner's saying it usually takes about three days to surface and the sheriff adding
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they usually don't get that bad in two days that's his vague description of the remains
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and from everything they were saying Captain it sounds like they couldn't really prove it
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but they were working on the idea based on evidence and what their experience is
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telling them that Chris probably died closer to the time when he went missing and likely ended up in the water closer
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to the night when he went missing yeah so remember it was just a few hours over a week
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that he was gone so law enforcement putting the time of death much closer to that Sunday morning
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when Chris's parents noticed that he was not home the cause of death was ruled to
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be drowning but the manner of death was left as undetermined the sheriff said that they were actively looking for the
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entry point into the river this might help to better determine the manner of death do we have puncture
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wounds they're not very descriptive about what they're going to release to the public right at this time and maybe
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they're holding that back because they know that some that's something that a suspect would now or the killer would
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know well I think you're going to get a better idea of what their suspicions were
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uh when I give you this information the sheriff said that he was hopeful that they would be able to locate a party
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spot with obvious signs and evidence of a recent teenager party along the water after days of trying
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we were told no such party spot was located it sounds like the sheriff's department
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was now fully on board with the idea that Chris's parents had in the beginning right from Jump Street that
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Chris was not only you know not only did he leave their home in the middle of the night
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probably with somebody else he wasn't alone then but he probably wasn't alone whenever he
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went into the Waters of the Wisconsin now George and Kathy Steiner were left with only photographs and memories of
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their son Chris they remember him as a happy loud and boisterous boy who was a delight to be
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around remembering that Chris did exactly what the dentist told him for a full seven years so that he could get
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out of those braces on schedule he had a new job that he liked and was already calculating the extra money he
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could make working on Sundays and holidays he loved fishing the outdoors and playing baseball George and Kathy
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set up a reward fund this is very interesting here Captain because what we are faced with again is
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even though you have the ruling of drowning as the cause of death you don't have the manner of death was it an
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accident did somebody put him in the water did you know any number of things could
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have happened here and again you're not saying that there's a toxicology report so we don't know if he went out with
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somebody's drinking and got drunk and end up drowning in this in this body of water yes you hear exactly right and one
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thing they did State early on is that they were going to run toxicology but it would be several weeks before they would
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get the results for that we have to keep in mind this is 1994. so Chris's parents George and
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Kathy they set up this reward fund offering a cash reward to anyone who came forward with information that would
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provide answers to Chris's mysterious death because that's what you have here you have a mysterious death
00:29:34
a suspicious death right and one thing that I noticed kind of reading between the lines here it seems like the
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sheriff's department kind of felt that way that we have a quote-unquote suspicious death even though they never
00:29:47
said those words well like I said at this point even if the parents are being cooperative the way you find him you
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start going well they're also the last people that saw him so that they become Under the Umbrella
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of Suspicion right and that's exactly it it's he didn't get to the river on his own yeah
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uh well and technically what his dad's saying is like yeah I roughly saw him a rough
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ly saw him stop me if I'm wrong roughly around the 10 p.m area and then he was supposed to wake him up in the six
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o'clock period and he wasn't there so that's a large gap that's you have about eight hours yeah that's a large gap of
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and so it's like well where are you guys's whereabouts and then that makes it more difficult
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too because one it's his parents so you don't want to you know piss them off by asking too many questions because you
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see they're grieving do they know more that they're just not telling you well and I think this will show there's kind
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of a united front here with the sheriff's department and that was my nickname in college the Steiners because
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remember the signers set up this reward fund offering a cash reward to anyone who would have information that could
00:31:05
provide answers about Chris's death a phone number was listed in multiple newspapers so that people could call
00:31:13
should they have any information now George Chris's father told the Wisconsin State Journal what hurts so much is that
00:31:22
you know that other kids were out there with him something happened out there something terrible happened out there
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but what we can't understand is how someone could have left him there without calling and Sheriff Butch
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steinhurst said that no charges of withholding information or underage drinking would be brought against anyone
00:31:44
who provides information regarding Chris's death yeah that's a smart move because
00:31:51
they should do that more often because I think there's a lot of times where there's
00:31:56
accidental deaths that that people go to the extreme to cover up well there was a
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newspaper article that I think sums up what their concerns were regarding the mystery about Chris Steiner's death
00:32:10
the article is titled clue saw and death of Youth and it goes on to say exactly how a Baraboo youth succumbed to the
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dark and murky Waters of the Wisconsin River May remain a mystery unless authorities are aided by Witnesses
00:32:27
and that's kind of how they left it captain and how it would remain for quite some time
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this brings us to Sunday July 30th 1995 in our timeline this is almost exactly one year really just a couple weeks over
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the one year mark in fact when Chris Steiner went missing and then later was found dead in the
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river and now we're going to introduce another family this is the Phillips family here
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captain at 4am Donald Phillips woke up and noticed something strange his son and daughter fell asleep on couches in
00:33:04
the living room the night before now at 4 AM his daughter is still asleep on the
00:33:10
couch but his 13 year old son Thaddeus is nowhere to be found Donald checked the boy's room and again
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his son was not there and strangely the boy's shoes were right where he had left
00:33:24
them the night before so no boy but his shoes are right here and yet there was not any sign of any type of struggle
00:33:34
inside of this home and there was no note or anything left behind from his son so Donald and his wife called it into
00:33:43
police telling police what they knew about the night before and finding their daughter still asleep but not Thad and
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adding that that had never taken off before and both were certain that if the boy had left on his own that he would
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have left some kind of note for his parents to find what is odd here as well Captain is the
00:34:06
Phillips Family Thad his parents and sister were new to this specific area they moved into this neighborhood just
00:34:14
about two weeks before they lived about 11 miles away a 17-minute drive from their previous
00:34:21
residence so they checked anywhere they could think of that Thad may have taken off to
00:34:27
this would be places like the fairgrounds in the community pool but no Thad and the people they talked
00:34:34
to and the people that they asked had not seen the boy either and offered no information as to where they might find
00:34:41
their son so either the boy took off under the cloak of Darkness or someone had stolen
00:34:48
the boy in the night but like he said there are also nudes the area so you do have that sometimes you hear about
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people uh when they move into a new area it's not going well for the kids so the
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kid decides to try to take back off to where they came from yeah truly a difficult situation here because he's at
00:35:06
an age where it would be difficult for him to cover any great kind of distance on his own
00:35:14
um you know he doesn't have a vehicle and it would be obvious if his bike were missing and I think again the alarming
00:35:20
situation here Captain is we say either he took off under the cloak of Darkness or someone came into the home and stole
00:35:29
the boy in the night but again 13 year old that's it's hard to carry a 13 year old but when you see the boy's shoes
00:35:38
where they were the night before when he had fallen asleep on the couch I think as a parent for me that would be
00:35:46
my major concern I'm going wait my son's not here yet his shoes are right here did he
00:35:53
I get it if he snuck out of the house but I think he's probably putting his shoes on before he goes out
00:36:00
that's telling me something else has happened in this situation yeah yeah I I agree that's definitely a sign
00:36:08
that if you're going to run away you're not going to do it Barefoot exactly that
00:36:15
would be my thought here and what you're pointing out Captain is a very common thing people move away kid gets weird
00:36:21
about the move maybe doesn't know anybody in the neighborhood it makes an impulsive decision to take off but those
00:36:28
shoes being there would scare me quite a bit this is going to lead us to Sunday July
00:36:33
31st 1995 just before 8 PM this is when a 9-1-1 call came in on the line was a boy who said he was
00:36:44
taken from his home in the middle of the night and was being tortured and held captive
00:36:51
the boy said he did not know his attacker or the location where he was being held
00:36:57
the call was traced and once the location of the call was determined police and Emergency Services were on
00:37:05
the scene less than 30 minutes from the start of the 9-1-1 call when they arrived on the scene they
00:37:13
found the caller a boy in bad shape the call came from 13 year old Thaddeus Phillips the boy who vanished less than
00:37:23
48 hours earlier he told them that an older boy had kidnapped him and held him there
00:37:30
they rushed that off to the local hospital and they went looking for the perpetrator police were looking for
00:37:38
17-year-old Joseph Clark who was said to be according to the police call Joe was driving an old painted over
00:37:47
vehicle and maybe in the company of a quote big girl or woman the location where Thad was being held
00:37:56
was less than half a mile from his home police didn't have much luck searching for the 17 year old suspect Joseph Clark
00:38:06
so they set up a Stakeout so to speak leaving officers and unmarked cars watching the house and waiting for Joe
00:38:16
to return and he did just before midnight and when he returned to the home he was placed in
00:38:22
cuffs and arrested well wouldn't that cause 9-1-1 and when he states that it was an older boy that kidnapped him I
00:38:29
mean this is a very abnormal situation I would think if I was a police officer yeah I'm thinking a teenager is going to
00:38:38
come around the corner but I wouldn't have been surprised if it was a 25 year old man or a 30 year old man that told
00:38:45
this you know teenager hey uh yeah I'm I'm just a couple years older than you are it's just such a abnormal strange
00:38:55
situation to have basically a kid abduct a kid yeah and I don't know it's unclear
00:39:02
how much Thad knew about his abductor we know that he spent um about approximately 43 hours
00:39:09
being held captive by this older boy yeah but again he doesn't know Joe Clark even though they're both technically
00:39:18
children he doesn't know anybody in that area he does know some of the people in
00:39:24
in the area I mean he he lived about 10 11 miles from this location but you're right it this most of the people here
00:39:32
are going to be completely new to him and his family yeah it's a new town he's only been there for a little bit it's
00:39:38
very strange he would know a few year older Joe Clark yeah and he doesn't and in fact that is why he's not able to
00:39:47
tell 9-1-1 where he's being held he doesn't have anything to offer up as to hey here's a clue as to where I'm
00:39:57
located so you can come and rescue me they have to trace the call and keep him on the line so our victim
00:40:04
here Captain Thad Phillips 13 year old Thad Phillips as we said was sent immediately to the
00:40:12
hospital this is because again when he's found at this location he's in very bad
00:40:18
shape it's obvious right from when they see him he needs to go immediately to the hospital this is where he's going to
00:40:26
have to undergo several surgeries to try to repair his legs in fact in the first
00:40:32
two surgeries they put pins in one leg and a rod in the other the injuries were listed a couple of
00:40:40
different ways depending on which source you have but what seems to be the general consensus is that thad's legs
00:40:48
were broken four times both ankles were broke one of his knees and a femur bone all broken
00:40:56
that's crazy and let's not forget the femur this is your thigh bone which is the longest and strongest bone in the
00:41:04
human body Thad not only told police about what happened to him but he told his father
00:41:10
Don at the hospital as far as what was being released to the public early on well they were mostly small details
00:41:18
coming from thad's father Dawn as he answered reporters questions while pretty much living at the hospital for
00:41:26
days while doctors and nurses worked to repair his boy Don told reporters that neither he nor
00:41:33
Thad knew the boy Joe Clark who abducted thaad prior to this incident so there you go that rules out any type of
00:41:41
personal motive Don said thad's captor brutalized and tortured the boy in the form of beatings that involved Joe
00:41:50
choking punching Thad as well as twisting The Boy's ankles and legs and jumping up and down on thad's legs
00:41:58
according to Don Joe told thaad that he had kidnapped the boy because he liked busting people's bones and that he had
00:42:07
done this type of thing before to other victims Don said that the girl or the woman companion of Joe's according to
00:42:15
Thad never saw the boy and that she was not in any way a part of the kidnapping or the torture that followed she's never
00:42:25
saw the boy she you'd think that she at least heard the boy these are thad's words that he saw the
00:42:33
girl but she never saw him and look my belief is that he probably saw her through a window and saw her
00:42:43
outside again according to Thad and to Dawn the girl had nothing to do with the abduction or any of the torture that
00:42:51
followed well on a quick Google search I I put in how many pounds of pressure to
00:42:56
break your ankle one of the suggestions is there's a link to the best ways to break
00:43:04
your own leg it says a rough estimate it would take about 218 pounds of pressure to produce a
00:43:12
tibial fracture and a healthy adult using a hammer so I'm guessing less for a teenager you could decrease the force
00:43:22
requirement by choosing a tool with less surface area such as a hatchet then again you'd be increasing the risk of
00:43:31
sauce soft tissue damage and significant blood loss so here we have the abduction and
00:43:39
torture of a 13 year old Thad Phillips and now we have 17 year old Joseph Clark who lives just half a mile away in
00:43:50
custody and we have the parents of Chris Steiner who are sitting there wondering
00:43:56
look our boy disappeared vanished in the middle of the night from our home much like that of this young Thad Phillips
00:44:03
kid and we are still here over a year later wondering how our son died foreign [Music]
00:44:21
so much more to get to while you're waiting go to truecramgarage.com and sign up on our mailing list what do you
00:44:28
get hey you get promo codes to the store Page and what you don't have to do nothing we just sign up for the email
00:44:37
list and we shoot you a promo code every few weeks and uh you just save a little
00:44:42
cheddar so join us back here for episode number two and until then be good be kind and don't
00:44:50
litter [Music] [Applause] foreign