00:00:00
the groundbreaking a e series 60 days in returns with a new season seven new undercover volunteers are ready to go
00:00:07
inside of one of the most dangerous jails and live among the inmates in the hopes of bringing reform there's only
00:00:13
one problem in this place there's nowhere to hide making the experiment more intense and dangerous than ever who
00:00:19
will fold under pressure and who will stay undercover long enough to make it to the end find out in a new season of
00:00:25
60 days in new episodes Thursday at 9 8 central on a e this one goes out to all you craft real
00:00:32
male lovers to the sniffers making excuses to run to the kitchen to open a jar and take a big woof and to the
00:00:39
dippers slathering their sandwiches and velvety smooth mayo and then dipping them in even more Mayo you just can't
00:00:46
get enough can you and I haven't forgotten the fry painters some say fruit some say chips but you all use
00:00:52
that french fry golden goodness to deliver craft real mail straight to your mouth let your Mayo free flag fly
00:01:13
thank you [Music] [Music] thank you [Music] welcome to True Crime garage wherever
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you are whatever you are doing thanks for listening I'm your host Nick and with me as always is a man that would
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like to remind you that organized crime is harder than it looks here is the captain yeah I'm stripping these cards
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like Tim Riggins it's good to be seen and good to see you thanks for listening thanks for telling a friend
00:02:03
[Music] we are loving our selection for today's show today in the garage we are drinking
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Clockwork by our good friends over at brewdog Clockwork is a tangerine infused IPA brewed right here in Ohio this is an
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old-time favorite that is back for a limited time so don't delay because you will want to stock up now this is a
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fierce Tangerine IPA that is hoppy and features honey Aromas garage grade four and three-quarter bottle caps out of
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five and let's give some praise and thanks to our friends for helping us fill up our fridge for this week first
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up a big shout out to Sam and Freddy listening in beautiful Denver and last but certainly not least we have a double
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fisted cheers that goes out to Minnie and Michelle from Morgantown West Virginia everyone we just mentioned
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Captain they went to our website truecrime garage.com and clicked on the Pint glass helped us out and for that we
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thank you yeah BW you in beer run if you need more True Crime garage for your ear
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balls we have bonus content through the Apple podcast app all you have to do is subscribe it's
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5.95 per month and it really goes a long way to supporting the garage flying garage ship and Colonel that's enough of
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the business all right everybody gather around grab a chair grab a beer let's talk some true crime
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[Music] thank you [Music] this week's episode takes us to Germany as we examine one of Europe's most
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mysterious cases [Music] a young nursing student froka leaves left a pub after watching a FIFA World
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Cup game with friends and goes missing what makes this case so mysterious is the fact that she was heard from but was
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never seen again for a week there was communication on more than one occasion she called or
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text her roommate in fact there was at least one communique nearly every day for a week
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some more terrifying than others all of this culminating into one very loud and scary end
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to the phone calls that her family prayed for each day [Music] and then there was silence
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and then death froca lieb's body was eventually found in a remote area called the death grounds
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and some of the communications the young woman didn't seem like herself was it really her
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[Music] and regardless why did the communication stop was this when she was killed
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and just exactly who placed her body on the death grounds this is true crime garage
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and this is the case of froaka leaps [Music] [Music] froka leaves was born February 21st
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1985. she grew up in Lebec a small town of just about 26 000 people in Northern Germany she attended primary school and
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high school where she studied education froka's nature was that of a helper so whenever possible she was the type of
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person that she was always helping others helping other people even those she didn't know
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after school she did a one-year internship at an institution for the disabled after this she decided to move
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to a larger City and study nursing so she would have a wider range of job opportunities so she moved to a city
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called paderborn or peterborn I've heard it pronounced both ways this Captain is
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a city that is located about an hour and 10 to an hour and 15 minutes away from her hometown so it's not like she's
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moving clear across the country she's moving to a somewhat nearby City froka made the move in October of 2005
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and at that time she was 21 years old she was leaving behind her family of four her mother father sister and
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brother all who would play key roles in our True Crime Story later of course when they are trying to locate their
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loved one and it's not like she was moving to an unknown City to herself or that she had no connections there she
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was going to be moving in with a a lifelong friend not moving there completely on her own as you said
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Captain she's already established a place to live in this she would be sharing an apartment and paid
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her born with Christos coriolis so Christos went to school with froka back in their Hometown and they had been in a
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relationship back when they were both teenagers they broke up after four years together but remained really good tight
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friends froka dated someone else after Chris but that had run its course as well and when she moved to peterborn she
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was unattached so she and Chris shared an apartment at bortoner Strauss 56. that's the address each of them with
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their own bedrooms but they would do a lot of things together here Captain they would grocery shop together socialize
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somewhat together and cooked and hung out together sometimes but each was busy with his or her own life their own
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schedule their own friends and their studies right Chris had a girl friend that he was seeing at the time and froka
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had a Social Circle of her own froka had only been in peterborn for about nine months when our true crime
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tale picks up during that time she was studying nursing at St Vincent's Hospital
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froka was very outgoing and a confident young woman she was liked by everyone because of her
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giving nature her friendliness and her acceptance of all types of people she made some really good friends
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through her nursing program and enjoyed going to pubs and clubs she was a people
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person who loved being around others yeah only in the city for nine months but developed some relationships close
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relationships because one she treated everybody like they were a friend but it's a lot easier to move to a city
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if you have won a job you're going to meet friends at that through that job and especially
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when you're going to school with like-minded individuals you're gonna create a lot of relationships in a small
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amount of time one thing that I think is key here that we should discuss and this
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is something that we know about froka this according to all they say that she was not the type to go
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home with someone that she did not know it's well reported that she was intimate
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only with men if she was in a relationship with them a long-term relationship with them when we get to
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the details of The Disappearance it will be clear why we went out of our way to mention that here now something that
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could have direct ties to her disappearance she had a constant online presence under her moniker sweet Quarry
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in fact she met a lot of her friends that way on various sites on the internet froka's mom said her daughter
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always had her phone in her hand and that texting was her number one hobby later the lead investigator on her case
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his name Rolf Osterman would say she chatted with God and the World online and his team has always suspected
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that her killer may have come across her there yep we said killer that's because
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unfortunately froka was killed at the young age of just 21 years old but first weird stuff almost hard to believe stuff
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happened in this case let's go through the events leading up to her disappearance
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this puts us at Tuesday June 20th 2006 and we have Ingrid who is froka's mom she came to town to take froka to dinner
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Chris the roommate joined them and the three went to a cafe froka's schoolmate and friend her name
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is Isabella text her at some point saying that her and some friends had a sweet spot at a local pub and the
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football games were on that year Germany was hosting the World Cup and Germans like most people in the
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smart countries love to go to pubs drink beer and watch football no matter the definition applied to the name of the
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sport Germany had won its match earlier that day they defeated Ecuador three to nil
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but the Sweden England match was scheduled for that night so after Ingrid left Chris dropped froka
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off at the pub where Isabella and the other friends were this is The Old Triangle Irish pub in libori gallery
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neighborhood of peterborg Chris then went home now Chris for whatever reason did not have his apartment key on him so
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he took froka's key after dropping her off the arrangements were set he told froka he would wait up for her and let
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her in since the external door to the building would be locked now this something
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this is something captain that might seem odd to people here in the states that he drove to the cafe with the bomb
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had dinner drops her off and then needs to take her key to the apartment because
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here in the states we typically put our house in Apartment keys on our key ring with our keys to our cars or our
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vehicles there they walk a lot of places and more often than not we'll walk so it wouldn't
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be terribly uncommon to keep your keys separate he left his key at the apartment needed to take hers
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and said he would wait up for her when she returned later that night and probably because Germany was hosting the
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World Cup that more Germans were just more excited about any matchup and this Pub was packed and it was pretty Rowdy
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for this event and Germany was one of the favorites that year they were one of the better
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teams that year so there were high expectations for the Germany team the crowd at the pub like the captain said
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they're having a good time it's a loud crowd they're engaged in the game froka's having fun with her friends
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but she's also madly texting some guy named Niels and remember we have everybody telling us especially her
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mother Ingrid said texting was her number one hobby right so she's at the party but busy on the phone we all know
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that person this would have drove me nuts I would have said get off your phone be
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present in the moment I I hate it when you're trying to visit with somebody and there's texting away it's it's a sign of
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I don't want to be there I don't want to be hanging out with you well in her defense we'll say you know it's Sweden
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versus England maybe her head's not in the game she's there being social but the person that she's texting is this
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guy named Niels and this is somebody that was recently introduced to her so maybe she had an interest in pursuing
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meals and this was somebody that in fact her friend Isabella who we already mentioned introduced the two of them
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just a few weeks earlier so it's not somebody that she just met online she has met this person in person through a
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friend through a good friend and it sounds like Isabella knew this kneels for quite some time before
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making the introduction between the two and according to Isabella she thought that Niels and
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froka hit it off real well and stating that their relationship was just as friends at this point in our timeline
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now Niels was actually working a late shift that night so he couldn't be there in person
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froka was trying to get him to come to the pub after his shift but he had plans to go out with a friend to shoot some
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pool after this texting what we have here Captain she's on the phone so much I don't know how much battery life she
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showed up to the pub with but all this activity on her phone during the soccer match
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kills her phone's battery so her friend Isabella gives her her phone battery so she can continue to
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text the two shared the same common model of Nokia phone remember nokias were pretty
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popular in the early 2000s froka continued texting Niels after getting the new battery and even other
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people now one thing we got to be clear here is we know that her and Niels were texting back and forth that night
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law enforcement has said that froco was texting others we have never received information as to who those
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others were right um we don't know if it was a whole bunch of other people one other person all we
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are told is that it was Neil's and others during that game the game wraps up around 11 p.m and I
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question this time a little bit uh but not not big time I bet you it's a little after 11 p.m and we'll get into that
00:17:10
very quickly so froka after the game she's going to want to get home and she even indicated to her friends
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that she wanted to get home fairly quickly because she did not want Chris to have to wait up for her until the wee
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hours right because he's got to wait up and let her in so she leaves after telling her friends
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that she's going home on foot by herself that night and as we know unfortunately
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she never made it home well it's something that we need to probably explain a little bit because
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bar culture in America is a lot different than Pub culture over in Europe and I can't speak highly
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of uh or I can't speak that intelligently on the pub culture in Germany as it's probably different than
00:18:05
England but in England a lot of pubs close at 11 PM 12 p.m they don't stay open until the wee hours of the morning
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so this is not froka's final communication with a friend or a family member as we
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talked about in today's trailer so at 12 49 a.m on June 21st she sent a text to her roommate Chris
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the text says I will be home later the game was fun not against England smiley face emoji
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ilyvm see you later so this text according to Chris makes total sense because he says that
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previously the two discussed that they were hoping that Germany would not have to play England
00:19:00
in the first round right as it got later and later and froka not arriving home to the
00:19:10
apartment he tried to stay up he he wanted to stay up and let his roommate in eventually he has to go to
00:19:18
bed but before so he tries to call her on her phone and gets no answer So eventually he decides to go to sleep
00:19:26
with his bedroom door open hoping that if she does arrive later than planned that he would hear the doorbell wake up
00:19:33
and he could let her in and I don't think we have details of this call because right when
00:19:40
I hear that oh well the roommate trying to call her did it go right to voicemail
00:19:47
I'm guessing that it didn't just for the fact that it's never mentioned it just he place a call she didn't answer
00:19:57
correct and what we do have here this is one thing that's tricky about this case
00:20:03
is that the information regarding the text and the calls a lot of that's coming from the persons
00:20:12
that either receive the call or the text or attempted to place a call right rather than law enforcement so what we
00:20:21
have here you're exactly right Captain he may have tried more than once to call her but according to what Chris has told
00:20:27
everyone he tried to call her we don't know how many times and his simple statement is that he got no answer So
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eventually he decides to go to bed hoping she would ring the door he would let her in that never happens
00:20:41
the next morning Chris's phone rang and he's hoping it's his roommate but it's not it's Isabella her friend looking for
00:20:50
froka right this because froka did not show up for class that morning at 8am so Chris is going to investigate he
00:20:59
finds froka's bad made and her room looked to be untouched and he didn't hear her come in that night knowing that
00:21:06
she would be locked out he quickly figures out she never came home and he says this is incredibly well out of
00:21:14
character for his roommate so this puts Chris into like instant panic mode he starts calling around he calls
00:21:23
froka's family remember he he had a relationship with her she's his roommate he went to dinner with her and her
00:21:31
mother the night before he knows her family well so he calls Ingrid froka's mother and
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says look your daughter didn't come home last night I'm worried her friend Isabella
00:21:44
who I dropped her off with last night calls says that froka didn't show up for school this morning
00:21:50
exactly and Mom's now worried too because they both agree this is not normal for my daughter this is not
00:21:59
normal for my roommate and this is why the question of when she left the pub becomes very important because
00:22:07
if she would have left right after 11 it doesn't take her that long to get back to her apartment
00:22:16
so you get this text almost you know closer to 1am saying I'm going to be home soon
00:22:23
so then you go well if she left about 11 you got a two hour gap there in time exactly and here's the thing too
00:22:32
what we have here is we have Mom and roommate springing into action immediately we
00:22:38
like to see this in these cases and we even have the two of them calling around this is you know they're calling
00:22:45
even hospitals to see if maybe she was involved in some kind of accident or or whatever
00:22:51
mom decides hey I'm gonna call the local police force and report my daughter missing and
00:23:00
she doesn't get the best information that she wants right first they're saying you know you you need to call the
00:23:06
area where she's missing from and number two she's not been missing for very long
00:23:10
she's an adult she has the right to stay out all night and not come home to her apartment she doesn't even live with you
00:23:16
guys and so Ingrid decides to take it up a notch crank it up to 11. she called a friend a
00:23:24
personal friend on a local police force who then called an acquaintance on the peterborn police
00:23:33
so now we have Peter Bourne who they're going to kind of work it a little bit kind of work it on the DL but
00:23:41
all everything that they did that day checking any accidents reports and so on it turns up nothing
00:23:51
so again we have family and friends who are ready to spring into action they actually start putting up Flyers
00:24:00
later that very day uh and these are just Flyers saying you know asking for information you know call us if you if
00:24:08
you've seen her or if you know where she could be but Captain I think you're honing in on
00:24:15
something and and I like the cut of your jib there boy uh let's examine what we can about froka's walk home
00:24:23
that night the all triangle was located in the inner city part of peterbor whereas her
00:24:31
apartment was south of that so just about 1.5 kilometers so less than a mile away right
00:24:39
there were essentially two routes that she could have taken on foot I guess three if you were going to count
00:24:46
like one side road which would lead to one of the main roads that she would have taken
00:24:51
but two primary routes and a possible third but so the first would be via laboriburg cutting over to
00:25:00
woodiken Strauss so this is about 1.3 kilometers it's estimated to be approximately a 16
00:25:08
minute walking time the second was exclusively via that very hard word to say Road woodiken Strauss
00:25:17
also 1.3 kilometers again about 16 minutes just to be clear we don't need people sending us emails or comments on
00:25:27
mispronunciations of any of these locations we're doing the best we can and being as respectful as we can as we
00:25:37
are just two dumb idiots in the garage well I don't know that we're dumb idiots but we are two garage guys that
00:25:44
certainly yes we are flunked out of German in high school I did not actually flunk out I did take a one semester
00:25:52
I did not take any semesters the third route Captain was via wood fried Strauss this was the longest of the three
00:26:02
potential routes that she could have taken this is 1.6 kilometers with an estimated walking time of 20 minutes so
00:26:09
exactly what the captain pointed out just a few seconds ago right that this would have been a relatively quick walk
00:26:18
we have an estimated walking time of 16 to 20 minutes so let's highlight a couple of items here
00:26:25
before we move on the approximate time of froka leaving the pub according to our notes is
00:26:34
sometime after 11 pm that text to Chris her roommate comes through at 12 49 am remember we just mapped out 16 to 20
00:26:44
minutes walking time for froka there's a big gap there between that text that comes in
00:26:53
and the time that she left the pub even even if let's say at the far stretch of it right friends saying that
00:27:02
she left sometime after 11. nobody says she left at midnight or after midnight I
00:27:09
would believe that that would indicate that this is closer to 11 p.m 11 10 11 15 pm
00:27:15
not closer to midnight but let's say by some crazy chance that leaving after 11 P.M to them ended up
00:27:26
meaning 11 59 pm it's still would would not take her you know it still would not take her 50
00:27:36
minutes to walk from that Pub to her apartment it would take 16 to 20 minutes well no and again I want to take like
00:27:43
you said it wouldn't take 50 minutes for her to walk back home but also if you got back home in 50 minutes you won't be
00:27:51
texting at your doorstep hey I'm going to be home soon correct so we have a few options here of what could have gone
00:27:59
down one maybe the eyewitnesses were just completely wrong and it was past midnight
00:28:07
closer to one that seems unlikely to me or was there a pub on this route that maybe she could
00:28:14
have stopped at maybe she had some friends at maybe she knew some of the workers there
00:28:19
but we have no evidence that that happened well we do have evidence of is all night
00:28:25
she's trying to get a gentleman to come out and see her he already has plans so it makes me wonder did she decide I'm
00:28:34
going to go meet up with him for just a little bit and then I'll head home so what we have here Captain is on the
00:28:42
short side of it we are missing about 30 minutes of time and to the great extent of it it would
00:28:49
be one hour and 45 minutes that is missing from our timeline here that are unaccounted
00:28:57
for for our victim so much more to dive into with this case and so much more communication through the phone and
00:29:05
let's get back into this after this quick beer break [Music] foreign s want to give their children extra
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ixl.com garage today the groundbreaking AME series 60 days in returns with a new season seven new
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undercover volunteers are ready to go inside of one of the most dangerous jails and live among the inmates in the
00:30:55
hopes of bringing reform there's only one problem in this place there's nowhere to hide making the experiment
00:31:00
more intense and dangerous than ever who will fold under pressure and who will stay undercover long enough to make it
00:31:06
to the end find out in a new season of 60 days in new episodes Thursday at 9 8 central on a e
00:31:14
this one goes out to all you craft real male lovers to the sniffers making excuses to run to the kitchen to open a
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jar and take a big wolf and to the dippers slathering their sandwiches and velvety smooth mayo and then dipping
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them in even more Mayo you just can't get enough can you and I haven't forgotten the fry painters some say
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minimum per order additional terms apply [Music] all right we are back cheers mates and
00:32:26
cheers to you Colonel cheers Captain cheers to the people in the sides in the back
00:32:32
now what has to be said about this case is that the police were slow to take the
00:32:40
case on part of that is precisely because of the factors that make this case so intriguing we have
00:32:47
communications from the victim who at the time is just simply missing and may not be a victim at all as far as law
00:32:56
enforcement is concerned or there's no evidence to suggest that she's a victim of any type
00:33:01
of Foul Play so we have these communications that for the most part do not seem to indicate
00:33:07
Foul Play but those who know froka say differently the family and Chris her roommate told
00:33:15
the police that froco was reaching out in apparent distress now not from this first communication but we're going to
00:33:22
see additional ones that we are going to get into real quick but because the police were not involved
00:33:28
in the investigation the calls unfortunately were not recorded and thus had to be reconstructed from memory
00:33:38
we need to point out here captain that different Publications in Germany have different wording
00:33:43
but we are going to do the very best to give you the gist of what was said well right and again we know with eyewitness
00:33:51
reports there's going to be some level of error and that happens also when your ear witness right there again they're
00:33:59
giving these statements off of memory because there is no recording the text different situation that's easy to to
00:34:08
research and and figure out the wording so froka is gone for months before her body is found
00:34:16
but for about the first week that she is gone there are these what could be deemed as somewhat normal
00:34:23
somewhat abnormal and somewhat cryptic Communications via calls and text from froka before the silence
00:34:34
most of the communications were with her friend and roommate Chris so let's go through this communication timeline here
00:34:42
June 20th sometime after 11 pm she leaves the pub June 21st 12 49 a.m there's a text sent
00:34:53
this is the one that we've already discussed saying I will be home later the game was
00:34:59
fun then Captain we have nothing until roughly 45 and a half hours later so a lot of time goes by this is when we
00:35:10
got family and friends putting up posters they're looking for her they're calling people trying to locate froka
00:35:17
they get nothing but what they do get is 45 and a half hours after that text that
00:35:23
came to Chris there's a phone call this is on June 22nd Chris was at his father's house when his phone rang at 10
00:35:34
25 pm it was froka she says hello Christos I wanted to say that I am fine and that
00:35:44
I'll be home soon tell Mom and Dad and the others she hung up immediately Chris did not have an opportunity to ask
00:35:54
froka any questions about where she was or what she was up to or why she's been gone for so long
00:36:01
Chris who arguably knew froka better than anyone else at the time was alarmed by this brief call and he
00:36:11
went on to tell the media and law enforcement that for one part of it he he said that froka didn't sound like
00:36:19
herself she was speaking in a very monotone voice her voice was very flat he said that she was usually very
00:36:28
animated and she called him Christos which he says rarely happened that froco would usually call him Chris
00:36:40
and only used Christos when she was angry at him yeah it makes me wonder if this was a
00:36:49
recorded message I think that's a good point I I think what we may have here Captain is the chance that this could be
00:36:56
either like you said a recorded message or if she's being watched and maybe a script was laid out for her right
00:37:07
and any variation of this script that I've I I'm telling you that you can you can say
00:37:14
we're going to have a big problem and we can't it's difficult for us to sit here
00:37:18
in the garage and have any clue what the repercussions of that may be so yeah and and a couple things here if
00:37:28
if you're Christos is your one you're going okay weird interaction or lack of interaction on the phone
00:37:36
but you know people go missing maybe she went to a friend's house you know maybe there was an accident
00:37:44
maybe something happened I'll get the answers later tonight when I get home but but you definitely think that there
00:37:52
would be some red flags popping up in his mind oh yeah big time red flags and so he is immediately alarmed by this
00:38:00
call I it's weird right because there's got to be some relief balanced by that of alarm
00:38:08
there's relief because she finally called she's been missing now for like we said almost 48 hours almost two days
00:38:16
but alarm because she doesn't sound like herself and she's to me when I review that call it doesn't make any sense to
00:38:23
me and I and we can get into to the wording of everything but the actions that happen immediately is Chris calling
00:38:33
froka's family and he's like look I just received this call immediately they're telling him look we
00:38:40
understand why she would call you first and not us right because you're the roommate uh we are harder to get a hold
00:38:50
of than Christos is and she was last in communication with you she likely would be the first one to see
00:38:57
you would she return and on top of that they live in another city yeah he's local exactly so he he tries
00:39:07
to relay best he can what the wording of the call was and why he was alarmed by the call and they agreed that they too
00:39:16
were concerned about the call so now the family froka's family and Chris they all gathered together at the
00:39:27
apartment at froka's apartment to wait for her after all she said she'd be home soon
00:39:34
and unfortunately again she never arrives of course they're trying to call her cell right but those calls were not
00:39:43
answered and there's I don't think there's a lot of details on on when they started trying to call
00:39:49
her because look if I talked to someone and I thought the interaction was strange or
00:39:54
there wasn't interaction on the phone I might try to text that individual or call them right back but there's no
00:40:00
indication that that happened there's also no indication that that did not happen right so what I think here is
00:40:06
likely that I mean that we we are told that there are several calls placed to her cell by multiple people after that
00:40:13
phone call look if you talk to a friend on the phone and they they they call and give
00:40:21
you two they've been missing for two days and give you two sentences and then hang up and don't even say goodbye
00:40:26
I think I'm calling back right away right so let's review this real quick hello Christos I wanted to say I am fine
00:40:35
and that I'll be home soon tell Mom and Dad and the others hang up yeah here's my thing about the the Christos right
00:40:42
she doesn't call him that but if okay let's just say she's she's at this point we we believe that she was
00:40:51
kidnapped right correct I do yeah so the kidnapper is saying who are we going to
00:40:58
call we gotta call somebody oh we can call my friend Christos and that's probably what she would tell a stranger
00:41:07
his name right should use his full name she's not going to tell a stranger you know well his name is Christos but I
00:41:14
actually call him Chris and Nick or it could be by Design on her part to say yeah we're going to call Christos I'm
00:41:23
going to use the term Christos because it's gonna spark a red flag in his brain of why is she calling me by my full name
00:41:30
I think you're see that's where I think you're exactly right Captain because we know she's a smart young woman you know
00:41:38
she's educated uh she's hard working we know that she's personable she's outgoing
00:41:45
so she's probably a fairly good communicator what I'm getting at here is that those two sentences make no sense I
00:41:53
get what Chris is saying she called me Christos that's weird but one thing here that
00:42:01
is a possibility is is he saved is his is his contact information saved in her phone under Christos and not Chris right
00:42:09
and if this message that she's giving is scripted by someone else as you pointed out they would not know
00:42:19
that she calls him Chris they would only know that when her phone rang 40 you know hours ago when she was late getting
00:42:28
home never came home and he starts calling her phone it kept coming up Christos kept coming
00:42:33
up Christos if you are trying to hide something or if you are trying to scrub the trail and do that by
00:42:44
communicating the person you're going to reach out to is the person that was calling repeatedly
00:42:49
the night that you abducted this young woman yeah and the person that they last had text communication with I'll be home
00:42:57
shortly here's the other thing too the last sentence tell Mom and Dad and the others
00:43:04
I'll be home soon tell Mom and Dad and the others if I'm talking to my friend uh-huh I'm
00:43:11
saying tell my mom and dad and the others if I'm talking to my brother or sister I
00:43:19
would say tell Mom and Dad and the others right because we share the mother and the father
00:43:26
to me it almost looks like a couple things not just that the the person that that scripted this
00:43:37
did not know to call him Chris but also may have made an assumption that they were that was her brother right
00:43:45
so there's a bunch of things here and and when we cross-reference this communication that yes this is a phone
00:43:52
call and the prior communication 45 and a half hours earlier was a text but in that text Captain that to me seems like
00:44:01
that's her right there's the inside joke or the inside mention uh reference to hey
00:44:08
something we talked about earlier England winning we did or England tying I believe they ended up tying that game
00:44:14
right but uh enjoyed the game all of that seems like like very personable stuff some of it even personable between her
00:44:25
and Christos where this almost seems very disconnected from froka's life and Christos their relationship like the
00:44:34
person that put these words together does not fully understand the meaning of their relationship
00:44:41
yeah but riddle me this Batman if you're the kidnapper why let her have any communication at all that's a good
00:44:49
question because that's a psychosis that I cannot sit here and claim to have an understanding of because if you're
00:44:57
trying to buy some time right you make the call earlier in the day and you go okay well I'm going to be home
00:45:05
shortly I'll be home this evening so now you got this time period where people are going to be waiting oh she made
00:45:11
communication she's going to be home the early evening comes we can't find her we'll wait a little bit longer okay now
00:45:18
we start trying to contact her phone but it's so late that it's like well I'm gonna be home shortly it's now a very
00:45:27
small window that if she doesn't return home you're questioning this call anyways but
00:45:33
but I don't see what the purpose for the kidnapper would be rather than some like
00:45:38
that's why when we came back from the break I pointed out the communications because what we do know happened in this
00:45:46
case the police were slow to get involved because of these communications right so if that was the purpose of the
00:45:55
abductor allowing this to happen job well done it [ __ ] worked it worked and then now let's go back to
00:46:04
the to the sick end of end of it the psychosis end of it Larry Jean Bell who we talked at serial
00:46:10
killer that we talked about talked to John Douglas about he abducted two different girls and uh
00:46:18
for his own pleasure allowed them to communicate with their family members in fact he communicated with their family
00:46:26
members in conversation so it could either be to throw the cops off so they don't get involved like we
00:46:33
know happened here or it could just be some kind of sick fetish some kind of sadistic torture
00:46:42
that this person chose to roll out on this victim yeah it's a it's a mind it's a mind F situation
00:46:52
yeah and I also think maybe you have this person you kidnapped them they're now a prisoner
00:46:59
and you're trying to show them some good faith I keep telling you if you just do
00:47:04
what I ask you to you live right so in good faith you did what I asked you to do I'm going
00:47:14
to let you call home right you have a hostage situation what happens we need you to you got you got 20 people held
00:47:21
hostage we need you to send out one oh you you want us to send in food and uh you know this or that on your
00:47:29
list of Demands well we need something in trade we need you to send out uh two hostages and we'll give you this and I
00:47:36
think we talked about this a little bit in the Oakland County child killer case remember in that case one thing that
00:47:44
people were fascinated by is that all of the victims when they were recovered it
00:47:49
was reported that they were clean even though they had been missing for days and days and days that they were clean
00:47:54
and appeared to be well fed I've always believed in that case and we know that there's a huge sexual element
00:48:01
to that case I've always believed that whatever was being done to those victims part of it may have been in trade
00:48:11
saying okay yeah I look I don't want to have to fight you or force you to do this
00:48:17
but I will if I have to but if you if you make it easy on me well you'll get pizza for dinner you'll get to take a
00:48:26
shower uh you'll get clean clothes yeah you'll be able to make contact with the loved
00:48:32
one in this situation like you said it may be that they have promised look I I know
00:48:40
that you don't want to be here I know that I'm holding you against your will I know that I'm doing things to you that
00:48:45
you do not like that are horrible but if you don't make this any more difficult than it has to be I will let you live
00:48:53
and proof of that is oh here's here's the little you know just like you give a dog a treat here's the
00:49:01
little treat the little reward quick phone call to your roommate or quick phone call to person who was
00:49:08
calling you two days ago this is proof of of of my word of my handshake that yes I will let you go if
00:49:15
you don't make this any more difficult than it has to be well it could be also all three happening at the same
00:49:22
time yep you know I'm gonna make this deal with you but I kind of get off on the idea of you making contact anyways
00:49:31
but I'm going to control that situation too and by controlling that situation and having you do what I say there's a
00:49:38
type of gratification or there's some type of enjoyment that I get out of controlling
00:49:43
that situation and also maybe this puts the the police off for a little bit okay
00:49:49
great that gives me some more time because the more especially with a kidnap victim
00:49:58
you're going to keep that victim in your possession as long as you feel that you're safe and that nobody's on to you
00:50:07
you don't have to get to the end of do I release her or do do I kill her and have
00:50:13
to dispose of her you don't have to get to that crossroads until you feel essential a sense of urgency or a sense
00:50:23
of books uh or or the fear of being caught grows even more if that makes any sense so one of the in
00:50:34
this is very this is hardly ever reported on but one of the items we we've talked on this show about
00:50:44
extensively about when John Douglas and Robert Ressler would go travel around the country and interview these
00:50:52
different serial offenders serial killers who have been apprehended some of them
00:50:58
in you know locked up for years and they would interview them for hours and one thing that they learned from a
00:51:07
lot of The Killers the serial killers were things that the serial killer was trying to improve on with each victim
00:51:16
what he was learning from the first victim the mistakes he made and ways that he could make the experience better
00:51:23
for him with victim number two and make it less likely for him to get caught with victim number two or anything that
00:51:32
anything he thought was too risky with victim one of course they're trying to learn that
00:51:37
but one thing that is very scary that some of the serial killers this would be the sadist
00:51:46
that said this to wrestler and Douglas one thing they were trying to learn or one thing they were surprised of
00:51:54
with victim number one is it they thought they died too quickly or died too easily
00:52:01
some of the things they wanted to do to the victim they weren't able to do to them because they died
00:52:08
in the course of the torture and they were trying to learn how they could torture the victim longer before
00:52:18
they died and so that's one thing that we could be seeing here as well because what we do know about this case is that
00:52:29
she unfortunately whatever was going on whatever was happening she unfortunately
00:52:34
wasn't alive there's no disputing that for about a week after she disappeared now Roth Osterman who we've already
00:52:43
talked about the he would be the lead investigator on this case he would later say that this is when the the family
00:52:53
became aware that she was being held hostage that's when they first firmly believed that you
00:53:00
know what this is confirmation of her being held hostage she calls with a two sentence call and hangs up and the the
00:53:07
call doesn't make sense and and she's not responding to our calls right well done
00:53:14
again it's like the two lines I'm not that worried about it's the fact that there's it's not a communication
00:53:24
it's not there's no interaction right that's so bizarre I mean can you imagine you this person
00:53:30
has been missing for a couple days you've been worried sick now they're talking to you and and you say something
00:53:38
and they just hang up the phone that's I mean that that'd be very difficult the TV stations started showing froka's
00:53:51
photo at this time and the police they spoke with everyone that they could think of
00:54:00
this would be Focus friends co-workers and schoolmates to see if she could possibly have left town with any of them
00:54:08
they spoke with everyone that was at the pub that night they they did their best to
00:54:14
track all of them down and talk to them they go out and they speak with Niels the the newish friend that she had
00:54:22
and he says that he has no idea where froka could be on Friday June 23rd at 11 04 p.m Chris
00:54:32
receives a text from froka's phone this text says I'm coming back home today I'm in paderborn
00:54:41
or peterborn Chris got no response when he texted her back he again tells froka's family that he
00:54:49
received a text saying that she's coming home froka's brother Frank hearing that her
00:54:56
phone was back on he tries calling her and she picked up well let's see here here's
00:55:05
what I wondered too is so she again makes a short call statement I I'm I'm in paderborn I'm coming home
00:55:16
almost implying that she was somewhere else I was in another city now I'm here coming home
00:55:23
and I'm guessing that there was extensive amounts of calls back to her phone to the point where somebody said I
00:55:31
gotta let her answer yeah this is her brother Frank and here's how he remembers the call Frank
00:55:40
says that he said froka where are you what are you doing when are you coming home froco responds I'm coming home
00:55:45
today not too late I'm in paderborn or paterborn don't ask I will be coming home Franklin says where are you froka
00:55:55
says I can't say and then she hangs up the phone and he he would say her brother would
00:56:03
say that she sounded normal alert but cryptic almost like she's yeah somebody's watching her yeah
00:56:13
and so now we have the family who they wait in her apartment all night long again nothing
00:56:27
again I think some of this stuff comes down to maybe the kidnapper thought he was going
00:56:33
to let her go but he again wasn't that that crossroads yet and you once you get to that crossroads then you
00:56:42
have to he has to then fully decide he has to fully commit if I let her go what are the chances that this comes
00:56:50
back to me and the police are still not heavily involved in this case but what we have at this time is
00:56:59
remember we have her picture that's being broadcast on news stations and we have the police who are issuing a
00:57:10
statement asking froka to please contact her family the next call was to the roommate again to Chris this
00:57:22
takes place on June 24th at 2 22 p.m so this is two days after her first call to Chris
00:57:34
this is two days after and one day after the communication via text to Chris and
00:57:40
the uh phone call from her brother so note this is the only communication in the series that takes place during
00:57:50
daytime hours all the other calls and texts so far have been late at night and this call is again to the roommate
00:57:59
and it's focusing I'm not coming back so late I come home tonight Chris says are you hurt froka says no
00:58:10
I'm in peterborn I'm in peterborn I'm in peterborn and then hangs up the phone and of course anybody's going to think
00:58:19
that this is weird why would anybody mention the city Peter born three times in a row but of course Chris in Focus
00:58:27
family they're saying that they believe that this was some type of message that she's trying
00:58:33
to to deliver some type of message to them Chris did um sorry Chris did describe froka's voice as
00:58:50
sounding blurry is the word that he used and by this I'm wondering if he means that she was slurring her words or
00:59:00
sounded sleepy something of that nature right or or is he talking about the connection
00:59:09
again the big misstep here is that police are not involved they're not involved it seems like because of these
00:59:16
communications which is ridiculous and so nobody's recording these calls to me these communications that are strange
00:59:25
is an indication that we should be involved if this girl goes missing a couple days
00:59:31
later they're getting these weird Communications with the family at this point it's it's even more hands
00:59:42
on deck because look people call all the time hey uh a family member of ours didn't show up
00:59:49
to school today it's very unlike them please go okay well we'll take a note of this but hey
00:59:55
if you make contact with her or she shows up please let us know and a high percentage of missing person
01:00:03
cases That's How It Ends a couple hours later they find the person open and shut case
01:00:11
but what doesn't happen that often is these weird cryptic Communications so if the family then calls and says hey
01:00:21
you know remember when we told you our our loved one didn't show up for school well a couple days later we get this
01:00:28
weird call from her and we've had weird Communications with her if I'm law enforcement to me I'm going
01:00:35
ding ding ding ding ding this person is now endangered they're in a dangerous situation
01:00:44
all hands on deck because we still at this point we know that she's alive we have the possibility
01:00:53
if we find her we could save her and it's almost like in this case law enforcement did the opposite
01:01:00
foreign [Music] thank everybody for joining us here in the garage and sharing these cases on
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social media and telling your friends about the garage podcast until tomorrow be good be kind and don't litter
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[Music] thank you [Music] the groundbreaking a e series 60 days in returns with a new season seven new
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