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subject to credit approval C store or ashley.com for [Music] [Applause] details [Music]
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[Applause] welcome to True Crime garage wherever you are whatever you are doing thanks
00:01:49
for listening I'm your host Nick and with me as always is the Zach Morris of True Crime he is the captain thank you
00:01:56
thank you thank you it's good to be seen and it's good to see you if I'm Zach Morris that makes you AC Slater of
00:02:03
course or something like that Lisa [Music] Turtle tonight we are drinking dark force by elevator Brewing Company garage
00:02:15
grade four out of five bottle caps dark force is well balanced it's a fantastic beer lightly hopped with a beautiful
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copper color dark force was brought to us by these Beautiful Minds chilling in the garage first up we have from sunny
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beautiful Parts Unknown Margaret thank you Margaret # truec and Chill from Jersey United Kingdom we have Mitchell
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like your jib and a big thank you to bront in Australia bront says please look into the Daniel morab case from
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Melbourne Australia Che is mate that is Che is mate that is a dude's name bront that's a that's a man that's a man's
00:02:54
name bront he's probably a cowboy call me Captain bront from now on like your big shout out to Lindsay from Carmel
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Indiana we also have laquelle from Bronx New York let's take it to the big Buckeye state oh iio we have Laura from
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Cincinnati Laura says you should look into the bricka murders that's on our list Laura so go bear cats and a big
00:03:17
happy birthday to my buddy on Snapchat Harry GM all right it's a real name it's a real birthday too it's my real name
00:03:26
bro and last but not least we have Jacqueline and C bus Ohio Jacqueline loved the our Halloween show episode 59
00:03:34
the one where we reviewed our favorite true crime documentaries yeah we probably should do a redo sometime yeah
00:03:40
cuz I've watched like 10 documentaries since that episode it's a big thing on Netflix now yeah so thank you for
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everybody for pitching in for this week if you want to buy us around for next week's show go to True Crim garage.com
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True Crime garage everybody gather around grab a chair grab a beer let's talk some true
00:04:09
[Music] crime this is true crime garage and this is the case of Alisa [Music] lamb
00:04:35
[Music] look at this this is newly released video showing a missing Canadian tourist
00:04:44
a young woman she seems to be acting in a bizarre way pushing several buttons on
00:04:48
the elevator is all going down in a hotel in downtown LA her name is Alisa lamb she's 21 years old she disappeared
00:04:56
2 weeks ago NBC 4's Gordon toasu live downtown right now with some new details in this case
00:05:04
Gordon well Colleen we spoke a short time ago with the detective from the lapd's elite Robbery Homicide division
00:05:10
he wants everyone to see this surveillance video shot here at the Cecil Hotel it shows Alisa lamp getting
00:05:16
into one of the hotel's elevators believed to be the last images of her before she
00:05:22
disappeared the video captured Alisa Lamb on the morning of February 1st 8:30 a.m. the day she was supposed to check
00:05:29
out of the Cecil Hotel the day before January 31st was the last time her family in Canada had heard from her this
00:05:36
is again totally out of character for her not to be in daily contact with her family but then the video takes a
00:05:42
strange turn she punches all of the buttons on the control panel then Waits she steps in and out several times she
00:05:50
even appears to be gesturing in the hallway although it's not clear if someone is there or not do you believe
00:05:55
she's interacting with another person I don't know I don't know know at this point whether she she is or not I think
00:06:01
it's fair to say that that her behavior appears to be a little bit abnormal but could the behavior have something to do
00:06:07
with her disappearance it's now been 2 weeks since anyone has seen or heard from Alisa lamb was known to suffer from
00:06:13
mild depression and was traveling alone on a trip from her native Canada lapd's Elite Robbery Homicide section is on the
00:06:20
case placing fires throughout this newly gentrified downtown LA neighborhood hoping the video will shed some light it
00:06:27
is the last images that we have of her know her presence in the hotel 2 and 1/2 minutes into the video lamb steps out of
00:06:34
the elevator one last time 30 seconds later the door closes that she's never seen
00:06:46
[Music] again January 28th 2013 21-year-old Alisa lamb checks into the Cecil Hotel
00:07:06
downtown Los Angeles California she is traveling by herself she is from British Columbia Canada she had been in contact
00:07:15
with her family daily during her West Coast tour and on January 31st the communication stopped the following day
00:07:23
Alisa lamb was due to check out of the Cecil Hotel she does not and she's not heard from again she is
00:07:33
last seen on the hotel surveillance footage behaving strangely in the elevator the footage is timestamped 8:31
00:07:41
a.m. February 1st by now Captain it's been over 4 years since the very strange death of Alisa at the Cecil Hotel mhm
00:07:50
yesterday we viewed the video footage and I'm sure by now most the world has seen the video yesterday we gave our
00:07:56
thoughts as we watched it here in the garage if you haven't haven't seen that footage it's up on our website now at
00:08:02
true Crim garage.com and we got a lot to get to today but I really wanted to start off by going through something
00:08:09
very interesting we wanted to get to an expert's opinion on this video footage so this is Dr Jack Brown he's an expert
00:08:18
on body language this is from his website body language success and emotional intelligence he has studied
00:08:27
Alisa's movements in and around the elev and he's going to clue Us in on what he
00:08:32
believes she is feeling and what she is doing at the time and this is such a difficult case because there's so much
00:08:39
folklore kind of surrounding this and so uh today let's just try to focus on on the evidence that we know and we'll
00:08:46
start off with this expert opinion with Dr Jack Brown so at the start of the video when Alisa initially enters the
00:08:53
elevator he states that she is not in fear in his opinion her wide arm swing and her relaxed and fluid walk indicate
00:09:02
she is relaxed and thus not feeling urgency after pushing multiple buttons which she performs in two sessions Alisa
00:09:10
lamb moves to the back left corner of the elevator he States her arms at her sides and her feet positions are neutral
00:09:19
relaxed and does not indicate fear shortly therea she looks quickly out of the elevator she then retreats to the
00:09:28
left wall of the elevator and then moves to the left front corner her hands adopt
00:09:33
the Fig Leaf configuration and her feet are close together this is consistent with anxiety or lower confidence beta
00:09:44
emotional tone this body language does not by itself indicate fear can you explain fig Leaf configuration yes I
00:09:53
wasn't sure what he meant by that either so I had to dive into his website a bit
00:09:56
but what that basically means is that you're standing up upright with your hands in front of your body fingers
00:10:02
interlocked or at least hands hands together at your waist uh this is a common stance or display of body
00:10:11
language you would see this typically like somebody standing at a funeral or religious service maybe a wedding uh it
00:10:19
would be best described as relaxed but attentive while I'm picking up what he's putting down so far next we see Miss
00:10:26
lamb jump out of the elevator uh this is the quick two-step maneuver and he says
00:10:32
this has a playful quality to it okay so now we're at the point where she is still out of the elevator for a second
00:10:39
or two and then miss Lamb's feet splay wide while her hands are still in a fig Leaf nonverbal or close to it stance
00:10:49
this wide stance signifies greater confidence and is not consistent with fear thus these two non-verbal signs
00:10:57
simultaneously convey a level of emotional dissonance yeah in this Next Movement Jack Brown claims that this is
00:11:04
the most important movement of the whole series yeah she's still out of the elevator and he says for about 16
00:11:12
seconds miss Lamb displays an elbows out later laterally sorry with armpit exposed and behind the head hair which
00:11:20
is a preining display this was at least for some time performed bilaterally the movement as she reaches up to begin this
00:11:31
extended PR was fluid slow and deliberate which is very important he says this display cluster context is a
00:11:41
strong and highly reliable indicator of sexual interest the person of her interest is either present outside of
00:11:48
the elevator or she is actively thinking about this person wow that's pretty that's pretty interesting now we can see
00:11:57
both hands and arms retract in from her extended preing sexual display as miss Lamb turns to go back into the elevator
00:12:05
mhm miss Lamb steadies herself as she walks back into the elevator this coupled with her slow walk suggests
00:12:12
either light headed symptoms vertigo or a relative emotional extreme this elbow forward bilateral
00:12:20
hair adjustment behind the ears is a nonverbal sign of Miss lamb dialing up her Alpha this map map stand for
00:12:30
manipulator adapter or pacifier indicates that she is trying to be more assertive or courageous M this is in
00:12:39
distinction to the sexual display previously noted her elbows are not pointed out laterally but held closer to
00:12:47
her body although the resolution of the video is low we can see that miss Lamb is smiling although it may not be a true
00:12:56
sincere smile it is at least at least a fair social smile yeah I I don't know if
00:13:02
I agree with that I didn't see a smile even if it was a small social smile yeah I I agree with you I don't recall seeing
00:13:09
a smile either um at this point her right- hand gestures in an illustrator with a fingertip only touching her right
00:13:16
chest this hand illustrator suggests a lower sincerity and or higher level of anxiety in this moment a series of
00:13:26
Fairly dramatic non-verbal illustrators and Maps takes place later in this video
00:13:32
this may be part of the body language of the conversation taking place with someone who is out of our view or it may
00:13:39
be a sort of rehearsal for an anticipated upcoming conversation or interaction right or as many have
00:13:47
speculated is possibly due to narcotics Although our view and resolution is limited this does not have the
00:13:54
non-verbal signature of fear yeah and and again that's something I think it's so quick to say narcotics when she does
00:14:01
have a history of mental illness and I think it's kind of uh not the most intelligent thing to say oh well
00:14:08
possibly narcotics when it's like she's possibly having a mental breakdown and she Poss possibly is manic and those
00:14:16
would have similar symptoms so I think you know going to narcotics is kind of kind of silly you you could almost
00:14:23
include the the manic thing along with the narcotic statement there well one I think what he's saying as a doctor he's
00:14:30
saying well as some speculated mhm well you're a doctor do a little research on the fact that she's bipolar and I just
00:14:38
think it's kind of insensitive I'm saying yeah I see what you're saying I think he his he's drawing these
00:14:43
conclusions in observations just strictly off of what he's seeing on the video well no because he just said as
00:14:52
some people speculated narcotics mhm this movement almost looks as if she's playing a game of charades then we see
00:15:00
Miss Lamb's right foot goes up on her toes she does this several times this body language pattern indicates a
00:15:07
significant level of excitement and optimism it is also common with joy at the very end of the video Alisa's elbow
00:15:16
briefly elevates up and out laterally again in a shorter repeat of the sexual interest preing nonverbal as previously
00:15:25
discussed Dr Jack Brown's conclusion is as follow follows Elisa lamb is playing a game of hide and seek or something
00:15:32
similar in this video and although at times she displays some anxiety there is no indication of fear there is
00:15:40
definitely an element of play present here it is of course also possible that narcotics are influencing her behavior
00:15:49
of particular importance is she is putting herself on sexual display while what is seen here may have no connection
00:15:57
with her demise if the events in this video occurred just before her disappearance it is it strongly suggests
00:16:05
that the person to whom she is attracted may have knowledge of contributed to or
00:16:10
be responsible for her death okay a couple things in there a couple things that uh Dr Jack Brown is talking about
00:16:18
that I find very interesting uh first he's hinting to the the idea that you know she's trying to be sexual towards
00:16:26
somebody or possibly just thinking about somebody sexual uh if we go with this theory if we buy what he's saying then
00:16:35
it's probably more likely that there was somebody there with her yeah he's he's basically saying there's a there's a
00:16:41
5050 shot that that this person would either be there's always a 50/50 shot sometimes sometimes it's more lower than
00:16:48
that but what he's saying is that that she's either interacting with somebody that she is sexually attracted to or she
00:16:57
is thinking about about that person which really doesn't get us anywhere right and like we said I mean the
00:17:04
there'd be a lot of uh questions answered if we had footage of the lobby mhm yeah if we had more security footage
00:17:12
if we had footage of the hallway we'd be in good shape a lot a lot of the listeners were kind of speculating that
00:17:18
look if there if there was somebody that she was talking to that chances are it would be somebody that would know where
00:17:25
the cameras are or who would know that the C which cameras weren't working implying
00:17:31
that it was a hotel guest or not not a hotel hotel employee right and so the couple possibilities here is you
00:17:41
know she didn't go to LA with a boyfriend so it would either be somebody that she met at the hotel or met in LA
00:17:49
or somebody that worked at the hotel uh you know as their moving rooms did she strike up a conversation and then strike
00:17:56
up a relationship with somebody that worked at the the hotel that's a possibility the other thing that you
00:18:01
kind of read about is that she had this blog and that she actually met somebody through the blog and so when she went to
00:18:10
her little West Coast tour MH she wasn't going to go to La but she actually went
00:18:14
to LA to meet somebody that she met through her blog but from everything that that we've seen uh prior to her
00:18:22
leaving for this trip and it appears that she was intending to hit three or four different cities in California
00:18:28
there was one city that was of question but it was not Los Angeles that seems to
00:18:33
me to to be like a predetermined destination uh maybe even a big part of the trip because we know she's been here
00:18:40
by at this point for several days right which which I get and I I don't you don't have to buy that the LA was a
00:18:48
second thought to believe that she was meeting somebody from the internet basically right but her having been
00:18:55
there for a few days does lead to the question did did she meet somebody did she buddy up with somebody that worked
00:19:01
at the hotel I mean there was certainly enough time for something like that to transpire mhm so in regards to Jack
00:19:08
Brown Dr Jack Brown's assessment I do I found it very interesting I there were some things in there that he pointed
00:19:14
towards that I wouldn't have known or picked up on um the interesting part of course being that if if this video was
00:19:22
happening right before she disappeared then his thoughts would be maybe somebody that she knew of had something
00:19:29
to do with that the the thing is though I don't see I I I just don't see her interacting with anybody it doesn't
00:19:37
really appear to me at any point I just don't get that vibe that that she's that
00:19:42
she's communicating with somebody in the hallway that we cannot see I I just don't get it how about you I don't I
00:19:47
don't see it yeah I mean I think initially it doesn't look like she's with anybody she doesn't turn around to
00:19:53
like check to see if somebody's going to enter the the elevator with her mhm um there's so much you know probably about
00:20:01
a minute and a half of motions and movements where she's clearly by herself right and then there's some weird stuff
00:20:09
when she steps out of the elevator is she talking to somebody out there possibly is she talking to herself out
00:20:15
there possibly right you know I don't think that my my gut feeling is that she is not with somebody and I'm with you on
00:20:23
that and I'll tell you why this is my thought on it is that yes her her movements outside of the elevator are
00:20:29
strange and it she does appear to be kind of talking with her hands at points but the problem is her movements inside
00:20:37
of the elevator when she's not talking to anybody are just as strange so that's why I don't really put a whole lot of
00:20:43
weight into what she's doing outside of the elevator I kind of chalk it up to the same thing the other thing that Jack
00:20:48
Brown talks about a little bit is that he thinks that she's playing some kind of game like hide and seek yeah and we
00:20:54
kind of talked about that like maybe playing a game of tag but you're using the elevator
00:20:59
uh a big rumor or a big I guess folklore of this case or with Alisa's case is the
00:21:06
elevator game which yeah or ritual I think it's been refer like elevator ritual game or something I will not be
00:21:14
acting this out on YouTube for anybody because I don't want to end up in a in another dimension I have things to do
00:21:20
this weekend in basketball basically this is like Creepy Pasta type stuff yeah uh it started on a Korean website
00:21:28
right you get it onto an elevator there's a sequence that you push you go to different floors and uh and but
00:21:37
there's a sequence to it right and it's not just you push all the buttons and then you go up every floor you there's a
00:21:44
sequence and every as you're moving through the different floors then eventually a lady gets on with you and
00:21:50
then you're going to go to the fifth floor and that's going to take you to a different dimension now once you go into
00:21:56
that different dimension it's just you well you have to start the game off a ritual off by yourself that's part of
00:22:03
the whole creepy part and then yeah this woman that you could bump into along the
00:22:07
way if you follow the sequence right she's not supposed to be human so you don't talk to her because she could
00:22:13
really mess up your trip you end up at the final floor now you're by yourself and apparently you're in that different
00:22:20
dimension or different world right so now you're in this hotel by yourself and if you don't do the proper steps to
00:22:28
basically fall asleep and then wake up back into this world mhm uh bad things could happen so a lot of people think oh
00:22:38
well this is what happens and it's only because we have surveillance footage of her doing some strange stuff on the
00:22:44
elevator here's the problem with all that she gets in the elevator and at some point pushes everything she at no
00:22:51
point does she push like any odd sequence that I that I'm aware of well in in and the thing is you said
00:22:58
something about falling asleep and waking back up I I think there's you know many different versions of this
00:23:04
possible ritual um as there is with any of these type of you know stand in the bathroom Close turn off all the lights
00:23:11
and stay in the mirror and yeah say Bloody Mary and different things blah blah blah can happen if you do it this
00:23:17
way or that way uh the the way I heard it was that you have to once you're in this different dimension you have to try
00:23:22
to make your way back to the same elevator and follow a different sequence to end up back into this World okay okay
00:23:29
so um but you're right she doesn't go anywhere in the elevator she goes into the elevator pushes all these buttons
00:23:36
does not end up going anywhere and even even if one thinks that you know uh if I
00:23:41
push okay I need to go to let's say I need to go to 24 6 and 8 mhm so I'll just get in the elevator and push 2 4 6
00:23:47
and 8 well the elevator is going to take you to those in that order it's not going to go if you need to go 26 48 it's
00:23:54
not going to take you in the order that you press them it's going to take you in
00:23:58
the order as it's most convenient it's like a bus stop that's the same way that the elevator works right well I think
00:24:03
your analogy is kind of weird cuz you you went up and the elevator would take you 2 4 6 and then eight but if it jumps
00:24:11
around like you have to go to the third floor and then you got to go back down to the second floor you got to hit three
00:24:16
right up to three and then hit two so you can come back down so that's I think the point you're trying to make but if
00:24:24
this was what she was trying to play this is like you know a very failed attempt and this
00:24:31
and this is like when your buddy in fifth grade says you know hey it's bloody mary time and so you you both
00:24:38
sneak out so you can you got to go to the bathroom you got to turn off the lights and to say Bloody
00:24:45
Mary this is as if she never even turned off the lights so if she was trying to play some you know elevator ritual game
00:24:53
she she messed it up right from the beginning she wasn't even riding on the elevator so I I think that's again just
00:24:59
some of this folklore which you know does make the story more interesting but I I don't think there's any weight to it
00:25:06
well let's go to February 19th of 2013 so at approximately 8:30 a.m. this is after several complaints about water
00:25:16
pressure the water pressure was very low a lot of people weren't able to get you
00:25:20
know proper pressure in their showers and there was also complaints about the tap water as well now mind you some of
00:25:26
these complaints were coming in before the morning of February 19th but anyway it's around 8:30 or so that morning that
00:25:35
the hotel is going to go and investigate and try to troubleshoot the water problem later that morning a hotel
00:25:42
worker he's a maintenance man he discovers the body of Alisa lamb and quickly calls the fire department
00:25:51
they're called in around 10:00 a.m. that morning now I'm going to describe the scene
00:25:58
and the state of the body when found okay and soon after that we will be get we'll get into the autopsy a bit so as
00:26:05
the captain often suggests and as I often fail to do there's that warning that uh I'm supposed to throw out there
00:26:12
if you got your morning coffee with donuts and if you don't like donuts well then you're a psychopath uh but put down
00:26:19
your coffee put down your donuts and go ahead we're ready for you all right okay
00:26:25
so I'll try to go through this as quickly but succinctly as possible um so the hotel has 600 rooms right it has 14
00:26:33
floors it's listed as 15 stories high this basically due to the large Lobby or ground level on top of the building
00:26:41
located near the center of the rooftop there are four large water supply tanks that are intended to supply water feed
00:26:49
water to the building you know things including showers drinking water basically all of the water supply so
00:26:57
these are are pretty large tanks mhm each of the tanks at the Cecil hotel are 1,000
00:27:06
gallon water tanks they are all grouped together on a platform which is about 3 to 3 and 1/2t off of the rooftop each
00:27:13
tank is 8 foot tall which is pretty tall that's well that's top that's to the top
00:27:19
of the cylinder at the top of each there is a domed lid or a top with a hatch to
00:27:26
access each tank the tanks are 4T wide the hatch on top of each tank is a square and it's 16 in wide 16 in squared
00:27:36
all right so let me uh pull out this tape measure you have a you just keep that right next to the computer well is
00:27:46
it is a garage oh yeah so 16 by 16 it's about the size of a trash cam lid like a
00:27:52
fairly large boxed trash Canam lid yeah and I probably could fit through that yeah there's been a lot of speculation
00:27:59
of who or how someone could fit through there that's 16 by 16 you and I are both
00:28:05
considerably bigger than Alisa lamb yeah I would just if anybody thinks that that's impossible I would just recommend
00:28:13
to pull out a tape measure or look at a trash can and just ask yourself could you fit through that and I'm a pretty
00:28:21
Burly guy and I think I could fit through that pretty easily now the maintenance man using a l lad now this
00:28:28
ladder is not a fix to the tanks um none of the tanks have their own ladder this
00:28:33
is just your pretty standard household ladder uh leaning up against the tank he he's going to well probably propped up
00:28:40
against the tank would be a better description the maintenance man found Alisa Lamb's body in the
00:28:46
northeasternmost tank floating face up at the time of the discovery the tank was estim estimated to be about half to
00:28:55
3/4 full author ities worked for about 6 hours to remove the body from the tank yeah and which a lot of the speculation
00:29:04
here is that if it took them 6 hours to remove the body that you know it would take her 6 hours to get in not true
00:29:12
right because the body is going to swell and I know that's gross yeah and it also
00:29:17
involves how they remove the body so during this time there are several agencies involved we had the LAPD of
00:29:23
course we had the Los Angeles Fire Department the Los Angeles coroner's office as well as an urban search and
00:29:30
rescue team now the urban search and rescue team was brought in for their expertise because they have you know we
00:29:37
have a body that's probably a Mess by now and we have to remove it from this large water tank that is hard to access
00:29:45
right so the urban search and rescue team helped and assisted the fire department to devise and execute a plan
00:29:53
that would remove the body and preserve the remains and evidence at the same time a couple of things regarding the
00:30:00
building before we get to the coronor's findings well well let's get right to that right after this quick beer
00:30:07
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Cellular when Freedom calls we're here to answer call us at 1888 [Music] freedom all right cheers mates I want to
00:32:29
go through a couple things regarding the building before we get to the corers findings the Cecil hotel's rooftop is
00:32:37
secured meaning the doors that lead to the rooftop are equipped with a lock and alarm the Cecil's standard operating
00:32:45
practice is that these doors are to be locked at all times now that does not mean that they are actually locked at
00:32:53
all times but they are supposed to be the hotel rooftop is accessible by using the fire escape I've looked at several
00:33:01
photos of the rooftop some taking taken on the day her body was found in those pictures there are clearly at least two
00:33:10
fire escape ladders leading to the rooftop right I'm guessing by the layout of the building that at minimum there
00:33:18
are three or more of those ladders with the emphasis on or more the placement and number of ladders is key when you
00:33:27
need to create a good flow for these for escape procedures right so basically what you're saying is that there she
00:33:35
would have access to these there's probably more of these often times Architects will use basic symmetry for
00:33:42
ladder and door placement uh this will allow for maximum occupancy to successfully evacuate the building um
00:33:49
it's a simple way to maintain a good flow of persons fleeing from the building and to avoid bottlenecking uh
00:33:55
so I say the number of ladders is more likely more because that many of that many rooms they got 600 rooms three
00:34:03
ladders is not a lot it's more likely more yeah yeah it's more likely higher okay thank you yeah so so anyways the
00:34:10
point is that there's a bunch of ladders and should have access to it correct now
00:34:15
let's talk about those hatches on the Dome tops of each water tank the 16x 16 in hatches because these things have
00:34:23
been argued debated and often misreported the hatches were not locked I know many people have tried to say
00:34:31
that they were locked but I can tell you 100% they were not locked and why is that because they did not have locks on
00:34:38
them so following the death of their daughter Alisa's parents sued the Cecil hotel in a press Rel release pertaining
00:34:48
to that lawsuit it is announced that since the death of Alisa lamb the hotel has increased safety precautions by
00:34:56
adding BLS to all four of the water tank hatches again with this case there's so
00:35:01
much speculation there's so much folklore a lot of people that covered this case early after the initial events
00:35:08
like a year after the events you know this was not common known knowledge right so a lot of stuff that you start
00:35:15
looking up if it was three or four years ago they're they're going to say well maybe the hatches were locked or maybe
00:35:22
they weren't but we know because of this lawsuit that there was no lock on there
00:35:27
so all she would have to do is have access to the rooftop which she did and Through the Fire escapes and she would
00:35:35
have to have access to a ladder which was probably up there because of Maintenance right and then she would
00:35:41
have to be able to fit through a 16in x 16in hole Yeah and well let's touch on that ladder real quick and and well
00:35:48
let's talk touch on this little flap there's a little flap so when people talk about you know would she have the
00:35:54
ability to push up this tank so she could jump in she doesn't have to push up lift up the hatch that's on top of
00:36:04
the tank the hatch is not heavy no and it's actually you know I've heard people speculate that it could weigh 30 or 40
00:36:12
pounds um this thing's 16 by 16 and and fairly old and it's actually listed in the autopsy report that the hatches
00:36:21
would easily open right but let me give you this little analogy if you take a tire like tire flip crossfitters will
00:36:28
flip tires you you might have a 450 lb tire and you might be able to flip that can you deadlift 450 lbs probably not
00:36:38
but because of the axis you're able to flip the tire so to open up a 30 to 40 lb hatch it's not thir you're not just
00:36:48
taking 30 or 40 lbs and lifting it off the ground you're just flipping it over right so it' be a lot less weight and
00:36:56
could could she fit through the hatch definitely absolutely on to the coroner's findings very early in the
00:37:02
external examination it is quickly noted that wrist scars are absent um this of course being a very obvious sign that
00:37:11
one has attempted suicide at some point before they had died Alisa had none of these scarring this pointing to the fact
00:37:19
that she had never attempted that form of suicide before and also backing up what the family had reported to
00:37:26
authorities so I you know I imagine this is recorded very early in the external external examination because the police
00:37:34
had seen they had communication with the family early on in her disappearance right the police are informed of the
00:37:41
following that Alisa was taking four prescription medications for depression and bipolar disorder and as far as the
00:37:48
family knew Alisa had no suicidal thoughts or known attempts yeah and I'm just going to bring up her blog cuz her
00:37:56
blog gets brought up a lot and I'm not super familiar with Tumblr but I actually went to her blog and took a
00:38:02
look around uh she posts a lot of you know kind of maybe maybe sad quotes but a lot of the stuff that she's posting I
00:38:11
wouldn't consider sad or depressed uh and some of the the funniest stuff that she posts uh and I'm kind of late to the
00:38:19
game is uh parks and wreck and she has a lot of these little uh scenes from Parks
00:38:24
and wreck that she posts um which kind of you know it was definitely sad you know anytime we're diving into this case
00:38:30
you start seeing similarities between you and somebody in the case uh and you know to know that I mean there's a lot
00:38:38
of posts about a lot of different things um some people also said that there was
00:38:44
posts about her talking about trying to get off her medication I I looked around
00:38:48
I could not find those if I would be interested to look at those posts I couldn't find those it was mostly what I
00:38:55
found was pictures and quotes and um a lot of pretty you know kind of artistic things right but as far as like you know
00:39:02
going which a lot of the artistics stuff I connected with but then those Parks and Rec stuff it it made the case even
00:39:09
sadder just because you know you have this connection with this person that oh this person liked some of the stuff that
00:39:15
I did and she was struggling with some of the the issues that I've dealt with uh so you get that connection based but
00:39:22
I I don't you know so when they said there's no suicide attempts that they know of that they know of yeah and that
00:39:29
doesn't mean that it couldn't have been a suicide attempt right you can't watch somebody 247 right um now the autop the
00:39:38
autopsy lists Alisa as weighing 121 PBS and she is 5' 6 in tall now I I simply mentioned that just so everyone can do a
00:39:47
mental comparison taking into account her size in regards to the size of those tanks and the hatches right during the
00:39:54
autopsy fingernail hair and sexual assault evidence kits were collected MH here is a summary of the coroner's
00:40:03
findings Alisa lamb died as a result of drowning they saw no sign of trauma toxicology studies did not show drug or
00:40:12
alcohol intoxication checking for her prescribed meds in her system it basically states
00:40:20
that toxicology studies were performed to check for these but the quantitation in the blood was not performed due to to
00:40:29
a limit limited sample right so very little blood left in the body well and the one of the problems with this whole
00:40:38
examination is going to be that she was submersed in water for weeks correct the
00:40:43
police investigation showed no signs of Foul Play no one could find evidence to support intent to harm oneself manner of
00:40:52
death is considered an accident all right so they consider this accidental drowning yeah some some here's some more
00:40:59
descriptive things here the body was in a state of moderate decomposition with Greening that was found this is typical
00:41:08
of seeing what we would see having a body that would sit in water for this length of time okay there is marbling on
00:41:15
parts of the legs the head is bloated with bulging eyes parts of the skin you really should have gave like another
00:41:24
warning to to this is like a long coffee break for people yeah I know you but I'm
00:41:29
just saying you should have you know that's a lot to take in parts of the skin exhibit pulling and they there was
00:41:35
marked wrinkling of the Palms fingers soles and feet and Toes there have been many reports that portions of the body
00:41:44
displayed de gloving this is simply a false rumor uh and probably to add more Gore to the mystery but it didn't happen
00:41:53
right and the coordinator also found that the hyoid bone and the L necks were both intact yes this pointing towards
00:42:01
that she wasn't strangled before being thrown into the tank it always baffles me cuz people that have this you know
00:42:08
you you'll hear somebody talking about this case and they'll start saying well it was impossible that she would have
00:42:14
been able to get up there it was 8 ft in the air and then this giant lid that you
00:42:20
have to lift was so heavy it would be impossible and those same people then also try to
00:42:26
make you believe that she was murdered right so it's impossible for this little lady to get up there and get into these
00:42:34
tanks but it's more likely that a guy would be able to kill her and carry her up there and then push her
00:42:44
in that that always baffled me why people's head go that way here's what I can say and we'll we'll go through this
00:42:51
a little bit later but I can honestly say I I could have gotten to that tank if I wanted to if for some reason I
00:42:57
wanted to get in that tank I could do it it would prove it well but what I can tell you is if I wanted to carry a
00:43:06
person up there and not even a person of her size if you took a person half her size right would be very difficult for
00:43:14
me to do mhm yeah but I mean also you probably should also do some more push-ups hey I do cardio hit the gym
00:43:22
twice a week uh in the stomach they found scant red fluid um now portions of tablets or capsules could not be
00:43:31
discerned in the stomach meaning basically they didn't find they're looking for evidence of the medication
00:43:38
that she was taking at the time they did not find that in the stomach right now the body when it was found it was not
00:43:45
clothed uh that seems to be of no mystery to people who have really looked into this case but another item of big
00:43:51
importance in my opinion is Alisa's clothing so this is another topic that has been debated and disagreed on they
00:43:59
did find her clothes they they found them absolutely 100% where did they find these clothes at though they found them
00:44:06
in the tank with her so these are the exact same clothes that she was last seen wearing in the elevator footage the
00:44:14
clothes were found in the tank with her as as well as her sandals were in there as well right but they didn't find the
00:44:19
clothes on her body correct the body was nuded the clothing was in the tank with
00:44:25
her which to me I mean just initially hearing that I go towards Foul Play yeah I mean I can see that because if you're
00:44:34
going to jump in a tank for whatever reason why would you go in with your clothes um I mean I could see jumping
00:44:43
into the tank with your clothes on but why would you take them off and then also bring them with you well here's my
00:44:50
opinion and this is going to be pretty dark so I apologize in advance another warning if put down your damn donut
00:44:57
regardless of how we'll get into how we think she got into the tank but regardless of how she got into the tank
00:45:03
my guess is that she was probably clothed when she went into the tank my thought is because of the height and the
00:45:11
distance between her height and the the top of this tank if the tank was more full then
00:45:17
unfortunately if she was awake and alive when she was thrown in there she was probably in that tank for a decent
00:45:24
amount of time before she EXP fired right and what you would have to do is tread water and work your way up to the
00:45:31
top where you could breathe air right therefore soing wet clothes are going to weigh her down as she gets tired inside
00:45:39
the tank so you would you would want to shed those clothes to try to maintain your endurance mhm that that that makes
00:45:48
a lot of sense so inside and this is a little bit of a mystery here to me but the other items that they found in the
00:45:55
tank were her watch and a hotel key card it's listed that these items were found
00:46:02
amongst her clothing so I'm guessing maybe these items were in the pockets of the clothing but I can't absolutely say
00:46:09
for certain right but if you wash your clothes you know then normally in the washer when you're taking the clothes
00:46:15
from the washer to the dryer you'll find you know a lighter or your your your wallet if you left it in your pants
00:46:21
pocket now in the end the clothing was kept by the Corner's office the watch and the key card were given to the Los
00:46:28
Angeles police department and they were given to them the night that she was brought in the night that she was found
00:46:34
probably so they could go back there and do some type of investigation um the clothing contained
00:46:40
a sand likee particulate okay okay and now this is where a lot of people point out that this is evidence that she might
00:46:48
have been kept elsewhere before she was placed in the tank that this is debris that got on her somehow and then she was
00:46:56
placed in the tank I'm going to offer my opinion here and I'm going to back it up
00:47:00
a little bit what I think that those items are they're basically described as whitish little Flex of probably like
00:47:06
mineral or or metal um okay so I think that those those that debris or the sand-like particulates
00:47:16
came from within the tank that they they collected on the clothing while the clothing was in the tank and I here's my
00:47:23
kind of evidence of that well I mean it's logical yes there's some logic there yes and these are very old tanks
00:47:29
and one thing that anybody could do at their house these tanks basically operate the same way as we have these
00:47:35
little water tanks in our homes as well they're called toilets um basically the back of your toilet operates the same
00:47:43
way it brings in fresh water it stores it for a period of time then it supplies it to something else right anybody if
00:47:49
you take the lid off the back of your toilet and you you stick your hand down in there and you move your hand you well
00:47:56
but you will see things that don't appear to be inside there but you will see them all of a sudden float in there
00:48:02
these are just things that over time erode or or create these little flexs or debris in that inside that water tank
00:48:10
right I just I just had this funny image of you playing around in your toilet yes
00:48:15
I did that for hours last night to back up that back my little Theory and I've and we put it on
00:48:20
YouTube no no um so that is the Coroner's findings all of this pointing toward a an accidental death they don't
00:48:30
believe that she tried to kill herself they also don't find any evidence of Foul Play or anybody else being involved
00:48:37
in this accident right and it seems like all the evidence points to their findings that this was an accidental
00:48:45
drowning yeah and this was not some kind of suicide or anything like that and they say accidental uh accidental death
00:48:53
with mental illness correct you know which makes some sense cuz there's some history there uh but you were talking
00:49:00
earlier and I think I cut you off about the ladder yeah so so you know looking at the body as far as evidence It All
00:49:06
Points towards that accidental death but then people would argue well how did she
00:49:10
get in the tank it because this is 8T tall yeah you know we've look it's definitive in my mind that if I can fit
00:49:19
through 16 in x 16 in cuz I measured it out with my T tape measure then the problem becomes how does this you know
00:49:29
small individual get 8 ft up in the air to get to the latch mhm well I pointed out her height as well as her weight to
00:49:39
show and anybody that's seen pictures of her she she's a thin slender person she
00:49:44
appears to be in good physical health um and I I don't think she would have that
00:49:50
heart of a time because the argument is well we've seen pictures of the fire firemen standing around on the rooftop
00:49:56
and those tanks look gigantic compared to them right well we need to keep in mind that keep keep in mind the layout
00:50:03
of that rooftop so basically these are yes they're 8ft tall tanks which doesn't seem gigantic however they are on a
00:50:10
platform which is about 3 and 1/2 ft above the top of the rooftop right so you're looking at 11 ft and then on top
00:50:17
of that that platform they're also standing on blocks which are probably a foot tall okay so 12T we're now at 12T
00:50:25
pry tall that's pretty tall that's pretty tough you're going to need a ladder the issue here though is that
00:50:30
platform that's 3 and 1/2 ft well there's stairs that go up to that platform so now you've you've already
00:50:36
conquered that 3 and 1/2 ft right so now you're just dealing with about 9t or so
00:50:41
well we talked about there being well you could have stopped me from adding the first time we talked about the the
00:50:47
ladder situation now if you look at pictures from the day that she was found the ladder that is used by the fire
00:50:54
department mhm is not it does not appear to be a fire department issued ladder this is this ladder looks very old it
00:51:02
almost looks like a wood ladder I would argue that the fire department is not using a wood ladder especially the Los
00:51:09
Angeles Fire Department and this makes some sense because you know and you'd probably know this better than I would
00:51:15
you know with your background in Security Administration maintenance workers if they have to access something often then
00:51:25
they will leave a ladder up there you're exactly right that's exactly what you would do in any of these building
00:51:30
situations because a ladder can be cumbersome to try to move up and down through an elevator or bring up some
00:51:35
stairs right and you know so you have you have ladders that you actually Place throughout the building so you're not
00:51:41
going 10 stories to hunt a ladder you're just going a story or two because you know you have one every so often right
00:51:48
and any maintenance that you'd be doing on the rooftop you'd probably just leave
00:51:51
a ladder on the rooftop now on that rooftop as well remember we talked about that platform that these tanks are
00:51:57
sitting on well underneath that platform it's open so you could store a ladder right underneath that platform and keep
00:52:05
it there and it not be exposed to the elements right and then the big question here is people would say well if she
00:52:11
used a ladder then they would have noticed the ladder well here's the issue is a maintenance worker could have
00:52:19
noticed the ladder mhm and just moved it like why is this out of place and thought that another worker left it
00:52:25
there right I'm going what I'm going to do is put this ladder away because it's out of place and it's not supposed to be
00:52:32
here and weeks went by and probably it you know I C I couldn't tell you what I ate last week okay you know what I mean
00:52:40
so it's like if I did I move a ladder last week I don't know right the other thing though too is if the maintenance
00:52:46
staff Works anything like the the security staff at this hotel there's a good chance that that ladder just sat
00:52:53
there that that a maintenance person put it up there and never removed it and it
00:52:57
was there she found it already in place right and then the other problem becomes
00:53:01
you have a lawsuit against you mhm so then how quick is somebody going to come out and say no I actually found a ladder
00:53:09
against the the tank one day and I moved it yeah you know that because because the latches weren't locked because there
00:53:16
was access to the roof mhm because there was access to a ladder we can assume then it makes them more liable yeah well
00:53:25
and I'll tell you what let's take the ladder out of the situation let's say the ladder is not up there for Alisa to
00:53:31
find there's still another way she could get into those tanks there is a structure on that rooftop that is right
00:53:37
next to the water tanks okay now inside this little structure I'm going to call it a little building um inside that
00:53:45
that's a typical structure you would see on high-rise buildings inside that you're going to have workings there are
00:53:50
actually workings that go from those water tanks into that building that's how close they are right now you're also
00:53:56
going to have things like P and part of the working system of the elevators in there as well so on this little
00:54:03
structure it's actually the rooftop of that is higher than the water tanks okay and there is a ladder that is always
00:54:11
there it's a metal ladder that is connected connected to that structure so at any point someone could climb up
00:54:18
there and actually the water tank that she was found in the hatch the way that the hatch is positioned mhm it's the
00:54:25
closest hatch to the top of that rooftop so meaning she could have climbed up there to a ladder that's always there
00:54:32
and she could have jumped down onto the water tank rather than climbing up to the top of the water tank which is which
00:54:37
has way more logic to it yes you know what I mean it's like you know it would be about a three and 1 half maybe 4ot
00:54:45
drop so we know that she has access to the rooftop right then she's up there she's exploring around whether or not
00:54:52
there's a ladder up there doesn't matter at this because if she attached ladder she
00:54:58
climbs that goes looking around for whatever reason opens up one these hatches MH and maybe Falls in MH or
00:55:06
maybe goes in there for some purpose there's also a chance that a maintenance man left that hatch completely open as
00:55:12
well and that she by looking down upon it in whatever state she was in sees this opening and thinks it's something
00:55:20
that it actually is not right and decides to enter it yeah yeah totally totally possible there I think and now
00:55:27
to play Devil's Advocate yes now somebody but if it's foul play you have access to the rooftop
00:55:35
and now you have to carry the you still have to carry this individual that's 120
00:55:40
lbs you know like a fireman's carry up a ladder and then walk her over um both are likely both are possible it's just
00:55:51
more likely that you know an individual you know any almost any capable individual could climb a ladder
00:56:00
and walk over you know to these these towers yeah but the signs of trauma on her body there are none right and all
00:56:09
the the ladder the structure the water tank all that stuff would create obstacles for this person so if she's
00:56:16
alive and does not want to go where this person's directing her or forcing her to
00:56:21
go there would be a bunch of signs of trauma on her body along the way so what I'm getting at here Captain is that the
00:56:29
only way that she went into that tank without her deciding to go in herself if somebody placed her in there alive that
00:56:37
means that somehow they coaxed her willingly to join them on top of this water tank without you know what I mean
00:56:45
and then to force her into that 16x16 hatch right that too would create trauma you would see you would see gashes or
00:56:52
bangs on the on the arms and probably the legs as well yeah so I mean are we ready for final thoughts yeah I think I
00:57:01
think that we are you know ladies first Lisa Turtle goes first Lisa Turtle goes first so so in my in my opinion um
00:57:13
unfortunately I think that we have a girl we have a woman excuse me that uh that was a very brave person I think she
00:57:21
was dealing with a lot of dark issues and that the the disorder the there were things
00:57:27
out of her control and I say brave because I think she had a lot of bad days captain and I think for someone to
00:57:34
say you know what I'm going to I'm going to be outgoing anyway I'm going to go out into society and try to do my thing
00:57:40
I'm going to go on this trip because I want to I'm not going to let this thing drag me down right I'm going to live my
00:57:46
life no matter what and I so I I think we have a very brave person that unfortunately went to La La Land uh and
00:57:54
I mean Los Angeles and she she finds herself in a in a traumatic episode of this disorder and
00:58:02
she a manic State a manic State and she doesn't really fully know what's going on and she ends up in the tank on her
00:58:11
own I don't think this was a suicide I don't think that there was Foul Play involved I think it was exactly the way
00:58:17
the investigators got it I think it's an accidental death brought on somehow by this disorder right and and those
00:58:24
findings then it it you know becomes a it's a mystery it's a mysterious death but it's technically not true
00:58:31
crime well technically not technically not but any any agency uh that I know of when there's an accidental death it's
00:58:41
actually investigated as a homicide until they can prove otherwise right and you think in this case that they proved
00:58:47
otherwise I think they did yeah exactly all right so uh Zack mois time uh timeout remember when he used to do this
00:58:54
I'm out I'm waiting for you to pull out the giant cell phone it's it's in my back pocket is that a giant cell phone
00:59:01
are you just happy to see me um I think it's the same thing uh we had a listener
00:59:08
the other day and I'm so glad that somebody is was through Instagram if you're not following us on Instagram um
00:59:14
we try to be pretty active and uh I posted something that the show was up Courtney I believe her name was Courtney
00:59:22
I don't know what her handle is maybe that's respectful to toss out her handle but anyway she said uh check out one of
00:59:29
my favorite podcasts one of the shows that got me into podcast uh This American Life they had an episode called
00:59:36
my damn mind yeah which was a rerun from about a year ago but it was it was their
00:59:42
newest episode and what it was was two stories I only listen to the first one but it was of this guy this individual
00:59:50
that was dealing with bipolar okay and uh he was having a manic episode and he he ends up getting shot by the
00:59:57
police and but what he does is he actually remembers the the episode so when he comes to and after they figure
01:00:05
out what's going on um he kind of walks you through this manic episode and in his mind he was like going to he had to
01:00:15
be like a double or like an impersonator for President Obama and he was on this Mission and he ended up like jumping
01:00:24
three stories off of his apartment wow uh and and they proven that he he did this
01:00:31
because all his doors were locked and it would have been impossible so he did this and then he also wrecked his car
01:00:38
and then he so he did all these crazy things because he thought he was on a mission right right and he even like I
01:00:45
think attacked a police officer anyways it's a fascinating fascinating episode and if you're having a hard time you
01:00:54
know getting your head around the fact that somebody could be in this altered state and possibly cause thems to die go
01:01:02
go listen to this episode it's very interesting like I said it's This American Life the episode is my damn
01:01:08
mind um it's it was very fascinating very eye openening and my brain was kind of going to this conclusion anyways like
01:01:16
I think they did their due diligence I think there's a lot of folklore with this and a lot of speculation with this
01:01:22
case and I think the video is super creepy and I think at the end of the day it's super creepy because this is the
01:01:29
last known footage of this beautiful girl's life and it doesn't make any sense right and it's a tragedy that's
01:01:37
what it is very much and the thing is is like I said yesterday this is very important it's very important that we
01:01:44
start talking about this it's very important that we talk about mental health it's very important to be open
01:01:50
and honest I mean to a certain degree you don't have to give out every detail um but by other people knowing what
01:01:59
you're going through and what you're on they can help you yeah you know and there's and everybody has these rough
01:02:05
days and and everybody whether you have a mental illness or not you have these rough days just like we said yesterday
01:02:12
and but it's important to be more open and honest so tragedies like this do not happen and somebody that I feel has a
01:02:19
lot you know that had a lot to offer and look I mean social media is you know all
01:02:25
kind of [ __ ] anyways but I I love people that use social media in positive ways post positive things or use it as
01:02:34
an outlet to you know get rid of some of their bad feelings or negative feelings
01:02:39
and like I said I mean and it might sound super lame to some people but you know it's like I love Seinfeld you love
01:02:47
Seinfeld love it and we connect and we talk a lot about the Seinfeld references we love uh Larry David right uh and
01:02:57
parks and wreck is something I just got into and I'm just finishing the final you know season now welcome to the party
01:03:05
welcome to the party way late um and you see posts like that and you just can identify with this individual and she
01:03:13
was just so young and just starting and who knows what she would have done you know and and that's and at the end of
01:03:21
the day it's very tragic and I think um if we could start wrapping our head around some of these mental health
01:03:28
issues we can start helping each other live Fuller happier lives MH you're absolutely right unfortunately I really
01:03:36
think that this whole tragedy would not have happened had she been traveling with somebody else now I want to be
01:03:42
clear here I'm not faulting her that's not her fault she was just doing a vacation like anybody would want to I
01:03:49
don't fault her parents or family for this either she's a grown woman and this is a woman that was trying to be brave
01:03:55
and trying to be outgoing and do her thing uh where where I do find a little fault and I'm not going to say I don't
01:04:02
wouldn't say legally uh would be with the hotel um and more more so with the employees of this hotel and I think it's
01:04:11
a moral thing that they that they've screwed up here uh I find fault with them because they they clearly these
01:04:17
employees clearly have no problem working at a place that does not really care about security we see this terrible
01:04:25
security system I imagine that there's very little checks that are going on at that time and also the maintenance staff
01:04:32
as well I think that there were things there and I only say this as somebody that's worked in these downtown
01:04:38
buildings for so long is that you I believe you have it's not just a place to show up and collect a paycheck and
01:04:44
they don't pay these people great amounts of money but it's not just a place to show up and collect your check
01:04:50
well I mean let me just you have you I think you have a moral obligation that that accident like this should not
01:04:55
happen I I do believe she placed herself there but I think that there could have
01:04:59
been standard operating procedures that should have been uh should have been executed so that this type of accident
01:05:07
would not have happened because if if we're right the way that this went down a child could have done the same thing
01:05:15
right you know and a child wouldn't have known any better yeah and I and I think
01:05:20
to go on your rant it's but it's about Pride right you know uh people wear these goofy Red Hats and
01:05:26
I and I'm going to get all political here uh because I this is not a political show and never will be a
01:05:32
political show period um but these people wear these funny little hats that say make America great again everybody
01:05:38
can start doing this by one Champion uh awarenesses that need to be Champion like mental health also whatever your
01:05:47
job is I don't care if you work at Starbucks if you're if you work at McDonald's whether you're a podcaster
01:05:52
whatever it is you do mhm take pride and ownership in your work because that's a
01:05:57
reflection of you and this girl should not have you know they did they know that she had this uh these struggles
01:06:06
that she was dealing with no but she had access to the rooftop then she has had easy access to get on top of these water
01:06:13
towers then she had easy access to get inside the water towers and those are all these steps that could have been
01:06:19
prevented if people took pride in their work and took pride in themselves and I'm sure that there are some individuals
01:06:25
at the hotel seaold that did right and and that's the problem when there's 600 rooms you can't you know you and then
01:06:32
even managers you can't you can't hold yourself completely responsible for every little thing but um you know just
01:06:40
you know want you want to make the world a lot better of a place start taking I was going to go into a Michael Jackson
01:06:45
song right there Tak a look at yourself and make no but you're saying you can start this by by starting in your own
01:06:52
backyard on your own Street at your workplace and if everybody does this then we're we're golden baby yeah golden
01:07:00
hey and and you heard at first from Lisa Turtle no but our hearts and our thoughts and prayers go out to her
01:07:08
family they've they've gone through something very tough we wish this would have never happened uh should never have
01:07:13
happened um but It ultimately it's just a tragic accident at the end of the day yeah so uh rest in peace Alisa lamb and
01:07:22
uh I I will probably go back to her blog um today and and take a gander again but
01:07:28
uh we got a recommended reading for the week we do and because uh this story has
01:07:33
ties to the hotel Cecil it only seemed fitting to do so this is a true crime classic The Night Stalker by Philip
01:07:40
Carlo uh decades after Richard Ramirez killed people 13 people and paralyzed Los Angeles R's name is still synonymous
01:07:49
with fear torture and sadistic murder Philip Carlos classic true crime book The nightstalker is based on years of
01:07:56
research and many interviews with the killer himself this all revealing that the nightstalker and his crimes are even
01:08:03
more horrifying than anyone could have imagined so pick up the nightstalker by going to our website true Crim
01:08:09
garage.com we have our recommended page there check everything out that's on there and we have our Amazon Banner you
01:08:14
can pick this up through Amazon yeah and if you haven't been to the website lately uh I just updated it it's
01:08:20
revamped it's revamped it looks a little more modern it looks great website kind
01:08:24
of looked a little uh early 9s band website but now it's a little more modern and you can get anything through
01:08:32
the Amazon Banner like if you can hear that that's my tape measure and uh I got that through Amazon.com and they give us
01:08:40
a little Kickback at no cost to you yeah and for everybody that's been uh checking out my music at Captain fat
01:08:47
hands.com I appreciate it much love to you much love to everybody that's uh sharing on social media the the show and
01:08:54
telling friends and look I I got a message the other day where this guy said I feel a little silly sending you a
01:09:02
message right saying uh your show help me helps me get through my work day that's why we're doing it right that's
01:09:08
why we're doing it that's that's we use podcast to get through our day and now we're just giving some love back to you
01:09:13
and you guys been giving us love so we're now giving you more love this is a Love Fest it is and I'm sitting here
01:09:20
with Captain fat hands himself the hands are getting fatter they're growing they're growing in front of me uh yeah
01:09:26
well my my point was that I just want to say thank you to everybody that's sharing and telling people about the
01:09:32
show and thank you to Nick for all his hard work uh and putting you know helping me put out two shows a week for
01:09:38
the last you know since January I think well thank you Captain all right we will
01:09:42
see everybody back here in the garage next week until then be good be kind and don't
01:09:52
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