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so [Music] [Applause] [Music] welcome to true crime garage wherever you are whatever you're doing thanks for
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listening i'm your host nick and with me as always is a man that ponders the mysteries of the universe asking himself
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are we human or are we dancer ladies and gentlemen here is the captain yeah dancing my way into your hearts it's
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good to be seen and good to see you thanks for listening thanks for telling a friend
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[Music] today we are sipping on this fine lager from unplugged brewing company muni lot
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lager it's a smooth clean and delicious lager with some malt and a little caramel abv five percent garage grade
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four out of five bottle caps and you know who else is smooth and clean well our garage friend's right here first up
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a nice southern cheers to melody in pensacola florida and a big we like your jib to casey and sunnyville texas here's
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a double cheers to rudy and adrian and beautiful rancho cordova california and a big shout out to lindsay in seattle
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washington next up here's a cheers to kelly in mechanicsville virginia and let's give a cheers to kelsey in keller
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texas and last but certainly not least captain we have cheyenne and jacob in wichita kansas big ups and big thank you
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to everyone who contributed to this week's beer fund tall cans in the air yeah bw double are you in beer run and
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be patient folks because the beer fun we're behind light years behind but announcement for everybody in parts
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unknown make sure you get your halloween posters they are on sale now and a limited number of those are available so
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that's enough of the business all right everybody gather round grab a chair grab a beer let's talk some true
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crime [Music] i got you [Music] at the time of kathy namas murder october of 2002 local authorities and
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officials were already aware of the embezzlement scandal going down at the fire department
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one of the fire department's employees as of that same month had already been charged in the embezzlement scandal this
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was matthew becker who was the former fire department executive board treasurer he was fired from the fire department
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after he admitted to police in an august 2002 interview that he had embezzled at
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least three thousand five hundred dollars from the fire department's account the criminal complaint stated becker
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stated that he did this because he needed the money and felt that the town of elcho owed him the
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money because of the [ __ ] he put up with becker faced charges of felony theft misconduct in public office and
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possession of drug paraphernalia eventually he pled no contest to felony misconduct in public office and was
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sentenced to four months in jail the wausau herald reported on october 17th quote rumors have spread throughout this
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small town that the problems at the fire department and namuth's death i wish they would put namus murder may
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have been connected in some way but police say they have so far found no link sheriff dave stagger admitted that
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anything was possible and said that investigators were weighing the embezzlement lead equally
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with other unrelated leads but others downplayed the likelihood dismissing any connection
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as local gossip el cho town chairman richard elsin said to the newspaper quote my answer to
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that is that's extremely unlikely why would somebody get killed over a lousy few
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thousand dollars my personal feeling has been all along that she was just in the wrong place at
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the wrong time a random act of violence in no way connected to the political situation in el cho
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everything about this whole thing is strange none of it makes any sense which is even more unsettling to the locals we
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are like any other small town things like this don't happen end quote yeah but why
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would anybody risk their job for a measly few thousand dollars i mean people have been killed for less now
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david namath kathy's husband was charged in the embezzlement case and later david
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was fired for this situation just three months after kathy's murder ultimately david was facing seven criminal charges
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some of them felonies basically david was illicitly paying himself out of the fire department's account
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writing himself checks during the time period of 1999 to 2001 and then he lied about it to the
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embezzlement investigator david pled no contest to theft disorderly conduct and obstruction in
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may of 2004 so david was on the take stealing money from the fire department fund over
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at least a three-year time period now it's not clear how much he took but the complaint states that in 2000 and 2001
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he paid himself amounts in excess of that authorized by law in other words he paid himself more than his salary
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allowed when the whole thing came out in late 2002 early 2003 he was fired as fire
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chief as well as criminally prosecuted despite david being charged it does not seem that investigators were able to
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connect the embezzlement and kathy's murder they reached out to the fbi for assistance in the case and took
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suggestions on how to proceed with the investigation but nothing was resolved and authorities
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were frustrated that they couldn't figure out or solve this murder but there was something else here captain in
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this case now we have lieutenant baker who told the wausau herald one very important
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thing katherine namath was a subject of the investigation as well but lieutenant baker declined to
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speculate on whether she too would have been charged and he pointed out that while the embezzlement's
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connection to kathy's murder has always been rumored no connection had ever been identified
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publicly according to the herald okay so kathy our murder victim not just her husband david was being investigated as
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possibly involved in the embezzlement scandal as well which is more than fair because as we're
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going to see as i'm about to tell you here she was in fact involved that's right she alongside of her husband was
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taking money from the el cho fire department we foied the complaint against david namath
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and as we just laid it out for you it alleges that he overpaid himself for three years and then lied about it liar
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liar fireman's pants on fire who else received excessive funds from the fire department that's right it
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was kathy namath as well so kathy and david co-signed a check written on the el cho fired apartments account on
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november 15th of 1999 in the amount of 1 500 payable to kathy namath but that's not all the complaint alleges that in
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2000 and in 2001 david not only overpaid himself from the fund but he was overpaying his wife as well i guess
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there's a chance that maybe she was unaware of any of this but to me it doesn't seem very likely it
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seems much more likely that she was simply involved in this whole situation he could have started doing this and
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maybe she's in charge of the family's checkbook or maybe she went into the bank account was like we have a little
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bit more money than we should or wow david made a little bit more money than he normally does
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and started questioning him and then he goes well yeah i'm taking a little bit on the side but hey i'll give you some
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as well yeah i'm not going to speculate on how she became involved or or what went down and
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look it wasn't just the two of them it's it's clear that there were several people that were not only aware of what
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was going on but were involved and in on the take as well well at least they're equipped to put out their pants on fire
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so kathy herself was being investigated in connection with the embezzlement scandal
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and literally two days before she was supposed to talk to police she gets murdered i'm not a
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big conspiracy theorist but you just play one on tv i don't usually like conspiracies in
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these types of situations because most of the time the the simplest explanation is usually correct
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but this is just too big of a coincidence to to dance around it right it's too big of
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a coincidence to not take a look at it and throw it under the microscope and say okay are these things
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related and then one thing that's very difficult to believe is that kathy just happened to be killed less than 48 hours
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before the meeting where she was supposed to go and tell police what was going on
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when she was being investigated captain she told police look i i will cooperate and i will tell
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you everything that i know right now that could have just been saving face or that could have just been making herself
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look good in the course of that investigation we don't know because she never got the chance to speak with them
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to tell them whatever she was intending to tell them she was killed instead well
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they haven't been transparent and her involvement like you said and then embezzlement we don't know because she
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was not charged so there is a possibility your husband is the chief if he says hey come into my office i i
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have this check and i need you to sign it what's it for and he gives her some hook
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line and sinker and she buys it and then he cashes the check she might not have been
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like you said we don't know what her level of involvement was or how much she knew and maybe she had a bunch of
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questions herself and once she's now going to trial or going to this meeting to say hey this is what i know and this
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is what i've seen going on this could be the nail in her husband's coffin and other people's coffin and there would be
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reason for somebody to not want her to talk and again when people say well it's just
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a few thousand dollars no you you possibly could go to prison and on top of that you're losing your
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job which is your livelihood right and the thing that i think that is difficult here though when we when we analyze the
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murder or how ever this went down whoever's responsible or why it happened to begin with
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you you weigh that against the other things that are going on right especially when you have this
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embezzlement thing that's so close to the murder investigation but it's one of those things that i kind of lean a
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little bit more toward what the local chairman was saying as well that it's not a ton of money it's just a
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couple of thousand dollars she seems to have been involved herself the charges themselves don't carry with
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them lengthy prison sentences we're talking about months in jail and fines that would be
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paid of course any of these things are uncomfortable and things that nobody wants and consequences that probably
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nobody wants to face but it seems awfully risky to me to jump from what would be felony charges that are
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ultimately reduced to misdemeanor charges and misdemeanor type consequences to something as
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premeditated murder and so i i tend to share some of the same feelings that the the chairman was stating there now
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that doesn't mean that they're not connected in some form or fashion they absolutely could be
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there's also some rumor that possibly drug money may have been involved now this could be
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this could push this to a heightened level here so this might get a little complicated here so i am going to ask
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that you bear with me there is a fine we will there is a local drug dealer in the
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langled county named daniel j zahn all right in march of 1999 the county authorities received an
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anonymous tip that a large drug transaction was about to go down at the kempster inn tavern
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police staked out the area and pulled over a drunk driver her name was denise enterson
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who proved to have marijuana on her person she had gotten it she said from a david
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zaun whom she met earlier at that kempster inn tavern according to denise zhan told her that
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he had at least a pound of marijuana in his possession and he had been dealing in the area for over a year she had seen
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large amounts of pot at his house and purchased from him in the past this was enough for the county deputies
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to get a search warrant for zahn's house where they found a bunch of pot they arrested zahn now zan would not give up
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his sources meaning the persons who sold him the bulk amounts of marijuana that he turned around and then sold to
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private individuals in smaller transactions he pled guilty to possession with intent to distribute
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before too long it became apparent who zan's sources were zan had been getting his supply from two
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milwaukee-based dealers these are partners named donald kostelski and brian schnarsky
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he admitted this in a court well in this area captain there's going to be a lot of skis
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he admitted this in a court proceeding on july 31st 2003. kastelsky and schnarsky operated out of
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milwaukee but also had a local apartment that was the hub of their langled county
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distribution network police put together a case against pastelski for being the supplier for the 1999 deal
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that had resulted in zahn's arrest in march of 2005 a criminal complaint was filed against kastelsky
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charging him with possession with intent to deliver eventually he pled out to recklessly endangering public safety in
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january of 2008. all he got for this was two years probation okay so what would this have to do with kathy namath and
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her murder as said it's a little complicated but kaskelsky would end up facing more charges and
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they were related to kathy's case so let's back up and explain a little bit to try to get
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to the bottom of whether kathy's case and the embezzlement case were related investigators held a series of closed
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secret hearings we've discussed this in some other cases that we've covered it's
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a pretty rare thing here but it does go down and these are called john doe hearings
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the wsaw news 7 says that these hearings quote they're typically used when an investigation is being thwarted or
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impeded and can be used to force witnesses to testify in a secret hearing it helps us get testimony or information
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from people who may not be willing to come forward closed door hearings on kathy's homicide
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case were held by the district attorney starting on january 24 2008 but the purpose
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scope and outcome of these hearings has never been made public there was clearly
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some connection being explored between kathy's case and the drug dealing going on in the area the fbi and the wisconsin
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department of justice and division of criminal investigation were all cited in these matters so some bigger agencies
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being involved and somewhat loosely tied to kathy namas case we were able to find
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out about these closed-door hearings only by foia request and this was based off of criminal
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perjury charges that stemmed from one of the drug dealers donald kostelski lying under oath
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at these hearings drug dealer and a liar imagine that wow i only trust a truthful
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honest drug deal i only get my drugs from honest drug dealers and with the with the current state of marijuana and
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pot and all that it it almost like these things seem a little silly to go back and kind
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of circle around them like vultures but but it's important to this case so kastelski the dishonest drug dealer
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was called to testify as an unwilling witness and he is fresh off of his 2008 conviction that reckless endangerment
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conviction that we spoke of and he lied his ass off on the stand we don't have transcripts as they are
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all under seal and we certainly don't know most of what was testified to but we do know that on the stand
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kostelski was asked about whether he had ever hunted in langley county okay so the department
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of natural resources records showed that he had yeah you can't handle the truth they also wanted to know if he owned a
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gun and whether he had ever sold drugs to dan zhan and on the stand kostelski was
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asked if he had ever sold drugs to matthew becker remember that name he was the guy that was already being charged
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in the embezzlement scandal at the same time that kathy namath was murdered yes kitsuki so matthew becker
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was the first employee of the el cho fire department to be charged in the embezzlement scandal in 2002. he was a
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co-worker of cathy and david nemes kastelski denied selling drugs to becker but authorities had plenty of witnesses
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including becker's wife who said that this in fact did happen so becker was getting his drugs from the
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same person daniel zahn was getting his supply from donald kastelski why were this prolific
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local drug dealer was donald kastelski and his partner brian schnarsky called to testify at hearings trying to get to
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the bottom of kathy namas murder well we know that kathy was on the verge of talking to investigators about the
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whole embezzlement ring and matthew becker her co-worker was involved in that along with her and was
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also connected to the drug dealers but there's more kastelski and schnarsky were also connected to david namath her
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husband this is from the same news outlet that we've cited all day and all day yesterday and their
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report says deputy john shunk says investigators have looked at the case every which way possible they even took
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advantage of a court proceeding known as john doe hearings during the secret of proceedings
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prosecutors found that two men who they asked to testify and who knew david namath were not being truthful
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investigators believe they know more than they are letting on kathy may have known these people obviously we can't
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completely confirm that schunk said the pair were buddies of matthew beckers and police say had knowledge of the
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elcho area having spent time there hunting police say they have a theory as to why kathy was murdered but without
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enough evidence to charge anyone with her murder they won't say what their theory is yeah that's pretty good that
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news release to me captain is incredibly interesting because what were they saying before all of these court
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proceedings was that we're not sure who murdered her or why yeah but then after these court proceedings and after they
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become aware of these two drug dealers that were known to hunt in this area and then later lied about any knowledge
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of the area being in the area hunting in the area owning guns got them guns son now police are saying we have a theory
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but without any evidence without enough evidence to charge someone we're not comfortable with presenting what our
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theory is as to why and how kathy namath was murdered [Music] [Music] i got you [Music]
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cheers to you wisconsin cheers to everybody in the back in the front and everybody around the campfire
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cheers so this newer information tells us that authorities seem to believe that there was in fact some connection
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between david cathy matthew becker and the drug dealers these guys the drug dealers had guns and
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frequented the area and are in fact sketchy criminals but we have no idea what if anything was
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uncovered because the information has never been made public we don't know the relationship between these men and david
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and we don't know whether they knew kathy or she knew them well it seems to me like this and by embezzlement was a
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little more in-depth than just oh i took some money here and there slap on the wrist there there could have
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been more involved there's been whole police departments that are stealing drugs stealing evidence when
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they arrest somebody if there's money on that person they just take the money because and then use that money to have
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drug houses so where it seems like it's just a simple oh i'm overpaying myself here and there it could be way more
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complex than that possibly but what i see when i look at this thing is a situation where
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it very likely could simply be that david and kathy were embezzling money so the tie between the the two
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drug dealers and becker is this middle man zahn who is a much lower level drug dealer
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so you have this situation where multiple people are embezzling money and are aware of
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what everybody's doing but you may have some people in that circle i believe it was a total of five
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people that they were investigating for the embezzlement kathy included but you may have two of
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them david and kathy who were just simply paying themselves a little extra taking
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a little off the top where this becker character may have been involved in some other
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situations outside of that his tie to the nameths is that he's involved in this embezzlement scandal as
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well right now what we do know is that kastelsky and schnarsky were both prosecuted for perjury after
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those john doe hearings they both lied on the stand and the d.a knew that they were lying and ended up proving it well
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starsky is a known liar so kastelski was prosecuted for perjury a felony and convicted in september
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of 2010 after agreeing to a plea agreement for two years probation pursuant to the plea agreement per
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wsaw news a judge ordered him to tell the truth to investigators or risk going to prison
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there was a new sheriff that took over in that county and this is sheriff greening who says that he doesn't know
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exactly how costelski may have been involved in kathy namus murder but he does think that he has information so
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the new sheriff not necessarily saying that this kostelski character right committed the murder
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but the sheriff is on record as stating he's pretty confident that kastelsky knows something has some kind of
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information that the sheriff's department does not have now your buddy captain brian schnarsky
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was prosecuted as well and you were right he he is a liar and the court of law says so right he
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was found guilty of perjury after a jury trial and as a condition of his probation was required to give a dna
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sample again this all ties back to the kathy namath murder right now i couldn't find
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this is what i wanted to figure out was kastelsky the other liar pants on fire was he was
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a part of his conditions of the pro plea agreement to give a dna sample as well i'm guessing so i would think so
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and that makes sense in this case because what we learn in kathy namas murder investigation
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relatively quickly after this or about the same time is that they do confirm we suspected it at the beginning of the
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investigation but it was later confirmed that in fact they did have suspect dna in her murder this comes from a february
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2007 news report that stated that wisconsin state crime lab was able to isolate a male dna
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profile from evidence found at the kathy namath murder scene now whether this was
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dna on the knife remember they recovered the knife uh the knife handle yeah or this or on
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her person because she put up a fight that's right or blood you know maybe they found some blood that they could
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confirm was not kathy's at the scene as you said put up a fight maybe there's maybe perhaps dna under her fingernails
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well in this case if i'm law enforcement right i'm looking at this case i go look
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how many people are going to know where her parents cabin is located right that's that's the first
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now we have people saying look nobody knew she was going to go out there that night
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and then we have this embezzlement thing that's connected with her husband look if this guy's willing to
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steal a little bit of money from his work and because he thinks he heart he earned it or
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whatever reason if he's willing to steal and lie maybe he's willing to cheat on his wife
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who knows but if i'm law enforcement and i'm coming into this case i have all those questions right away
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okay now we have a victim that struggled with her attacker with her murderer and
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we have physical evidence first person i'm testing is her husband and what we have here
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captain is the new sheriff bill greening told the media in late february of 2007
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that the sheriff's department had already conducted 12 samples or i'm sorry had already collected 12 samples
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from quote persons of interest for comparison to the suspect dna sample that they had now by march of 2008
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so about one year later they go on record the sheriff's department goes on records saying that
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24 persons had been compared to the suspect sample with no luck so we've we've tested 24
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people collected their dna and tested it against what we have the suspect dna and
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we've not been able to make a match yet now the sheriff did say that that 24 the 24 samples that they had
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included some persons of interest but did also include some emergency personnel who were responding to the
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scene right you got to do your due diligence and make sure you clear them so that you're actually
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testing and comparing for suspect dna that makes sense and as you said captain look we have david namath and i don't
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have every bit of information on where he was what he was up to but it seems to me
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he must have an iron-clad alibi because we know that kathy radioed about a scruffy looking man who she didn't
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know who it was and then later david is responding to the scene with their son they must know where he was and feel
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confident about where he was prior to him arriving at the murder scene yeah but just to do your due
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diligence i think he would test him as well because he's there before emergency workers are there
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so if you're going to test them why not test him as well correct i'm not suggesting you don't i'm i'm just saying
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that they i think we could com presume that yes they have that they have tested i agree i agree then let's
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circle back to the drug dealers because this is going to kind of come full circle well we wish
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that it would go full circle maybe we would have some answers but in 2008 there was a tip
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in february of 2008 dan zahn the drug dealer from the 1999 deal contacted the sheriff's office with a
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tip dan zahn told officials that he had information about the kathy namath murder and who was involved
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so they set up a meeting to talk in person on february 22nd unfortunately zan died before this
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meeting according to all the reports that we could find zan passed away from quote unquote natural causes at the age
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of 42 on february 20th perhaps he was ill someone posted on a message board that
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he had cancer and might have wanted to clear his conscience before passing but then pass
00:32:03
before he could do so the timing is really interesting to me i mean you think he could have wrote it down or
00:32:11
something well not only that like why not meet with him as soon as possible right
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i mean right i'm not i don't want to question anybody or what they were doing and maybe they didn't take him serious
00:32:23
who knows maybe he didn't have good information we don't know because he was unable to deliver the information but
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it's just weird to me that that these things seem to be that something like this happened and
00:32:36
this thing whatever information he was going to give to them could have broke this
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case wide open now the sheriff's office did do their due diligence by going out and getting a search warrant
00:32:49
and seizing his computer his camera and other items from his home the day after he died
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if they found anything on of interest it's not been released to the public so just to sum that up dan
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zhan the drug dealer connected to the other drug dealers connected to the namus through an unknown relationship
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but through this becker guy that they worked with basically through the embezzlement he
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said he had information about cathy's death but doc but died before he could relay it
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so anyone's guess is a good guess as to what information he was going to give to
00:33:31
authorities but doesn't this kind of prove it in your mind that her death is connected
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to this embezzlement i feel like i i don't know that the embezzlement is the catalyst for her murder
00:33:44
i think it's probably just one more thing that's involved in in something else that we may not be entirely aware of
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that somebody in this circle is involved in now not to throw a big fat wrench into the whole thing
00:34:02
but i found this to be an interesting angle here captain we'll try to throw a medium-sized wrench
00:34:10
someone posted on a wisconsin website and this is this is uh what they posted it says
00:34:17
kathy namath's murder investigation wasn't conducted properly and is being revisited the hardest part of the
00:34:24
investigation includes tracking down the people who were partying up at one of the cabins on loon lake that weekend
00:34:33
they were never questioned to begin with so tracking down who they were has been incredibly difficult
00:34:41
so this makes it sound like one of the cabins up at loon lake that weekend if this anonymous tipster
00:34:48
or poster is correct and being truthful and has good information that there was some kind of party going
00:34:55
on at one of those cabins and this person seems to have reason to believe that these people were not investigated not
00:35:05
questioned right away after the murder and so now that the case is being revisited remember we do have a new
00:35:12
sheriff in town that tracking down anybody that could have been there that night or in that
00:35:18
general area is incredibly difficult because this is years after the fact and not to go like
00:35:24
too far off base but this kind of reminds me of something maybe like bundy would do and the sense of like oh
00:35:34
if i'm going to go up and hang out with my buddies and we're going to party here
00:35:38
i'm now around this small lake that has all these other occupants i mean it's pretty far-fetched
00:35:45
i'm just saying that's basically what it seems like this internet poster is or this internet sleuther is
00:35:55
um presenting is that somebody at the party is responsible for her murder yes somebody at one of these parties or and
00:36:04
then you gotta wonder like okay if you can tie these drug dealers to that area which it sounds like the prosecutor did
00:36:11
that's how they got the perjury convictions is it crazy to think that they weren't
00:36:16
there for a multitude of reasons right that they're there because of kathy or they're there because of this
00:36:23
party and and didn't really know kathy at all i mean it gets it's a very confusing murky situation
00:36:31
and it's it's a situation where they've not released a lot of information so it makes it very difficult to
00:36:37
to really kind of grab a hold of a theory and run with it like i think there's a lot of good theories out there
00:36:45
the husband could have been involved you always got to consider that and then you
00:36:48
you put the icing on the cake with the husband that he's involved in illegal activity anyway with the embezzlement
00:36:55
scandal but then again i keep going back to it's not a ton of money kathy's involved
00:37:01
another guy the investigation was already like very active so much so that another dude
00:37:07
was already charged right so it almost seems to me like if you were looking to cover up the embezzlement thing to begin
00:37:13
with or to silence kathy namath that you would have done it well before this day
00:37:20
that it seems a little late in that ball game to be taking her out to shut her up well
00:37:26
what's interesting in this case to me is that they tested all these individuals for
00:37:31
the dna and and i think it's very responsible to go hey we're going to test the emergency responders so we know
00:37:38
that okay we know whose dna is on her so i think law enforcement has to be sitting pretty and going hey we have dna
00:37:46
that we believe is 100 the killer of missed amith so if they have that why not start testing
00:37:55
that dna and put it through the systems and and maybe you find you know a relative of somebody well
00:38:01
that wouldn't be putting it through the system but i hear you yeah the i would guess that by this point they've already
00:38:07
put it through codis and that would be the system so that would be connecting it to any known
00:38:12
offender dna that you already have on file so put it through that system which we don't
00:38:18
have any statement you're right captain we don't have any statement that says in
00:38:21
fact that they did that i'm guessing that they would have once they've already started testing emt workers and
00:38:27
people that responded to the scene and then persons of interest but you're right this
00:38:33
if you do think that she was targeted i keep circling back to the idea that there wouldn't have been a ton of people
00:38:39
that would have known that she would have been there at that time on that day so your suspect list cannot be that
00:38:46
long if you're really locked in on that theory and now you have at least 24 people that
00:38:53
you've cleared as far as not being a match to the dna well but if i'm law enforcement
00:39:00
this this case is frustrating because there's not a ton of information i mean you know maybe there's way more behind
00:39:07
closed doors that we don't know about this has gone on for so long and it's pretty popular case at least in
00:39:15
that area known around loon lake test the dna well and we are sitting here recording this episode in the garage
00:39:27
exactly 19 years to the day that she was murdered so 19 years have gone by and i don't know that we're any closer
00:39:36
to this than we were at the initial stages of the investigation the thing that i think
00:39:42
is a real big kick in the in the pants here is that this dan zhan passed away right
00:39:48
and apparently he had some kind of information that he felt was necessary to pass along to police
00:39:55
literally literally 19 years ann perkins the thing with this case captain was i was excited to look into
00:40:05
this one because i was suspicious of the husband because i was aware of the embezzlement scandal
00:40:12
on the surface i was aware that he was involved right and then quickly learning that she was involved as well
00:40:19
made that angle of it not so of such great importance to me i really thought that what we would be able to
00:40:26
see here is take a look at him and his son responding to the scene what her words were on that radio
00:40:33
transmission and basing that off of look if you're responding to the scene and you
00:40:40
you killed her or you had someone kill her it's not ideal that she's still alive
00:40:47
once first responders are showing up and may be able to give up the goose right and so i wanted to be able to look at
00:40:53
that situation in that portion of this case and be able to roll him in or out but it looks like
00:41:01
even with the information that we've talked about for the past hour or so i'm nowhere closer to knowing whether he
00:41:09
was involved or not like you said back in the last episode i think his alibi is probably pretty solid
00:41:17
and then also by him taking his son to me that leans more towards innocent because
00:41:24
you have the possibility if you were involved somehow or she recognized the person and that
00:41:32
person was connected back to him that she if she was still alive she would be she would have the capability of giving
00:41:41
that information to her son and it's really unclear about the information that she was able to
00:41:48
tell her husband or not tell her husband you know what i mean we have to sit here
00:41:52
and go well where the authorities just kind of taking his word for it that he arrives on the scene and she says yeah i
00:41:58
don't know who the guy was i didn't you know i didn't recognize him i don't know who my attacker was
00:42:04
or did she say hey i recognize who the person was and her husband knows that he's connected
00:42:11
loosely to this embezzlement that and that ties him together with this person and so he doesn't say anything to
00:42:19
protect himself the other thing too is we have the statement of police saying that it appears to them that
00:42:25
or they have evidence it's not that it appears to us we have evidence that she was running from her attacker
00:42:32
and it put up a big fight and tried to get away from him doing everything she could you know it sounds
00:42:39
to me like things were disturbed in the area that would give them evidence that she was fleeing
00:42:45
this guy and i know that when you look at footprints and compare footprints you can tell when somebody's running rather
00:42:52
than walking and the other thing you would have is you would have his footprints running after her
00:43:00
to kind of confirm that what we don't have is we have very bad reporting on and this is no one's fault
00:43:08
because it's not the police's job to distribute this information to everyone but
00:43:13
we don't have great reporting about the crime scene itself right that's the reporter's fault we're told
00:43:19
yeah but they what information are they going to get if the police won't tell them anything
00:43:24
what what we have here is we have the statement of well we don't think she made it into the cabin we don't think
00:43:29
that the cabin was burglarized we think that she fled the attacker that there was some kind of chase involved but
00:43:37
we have really no information when it comes down to the crime scene itself that's what i really wanted to get my
00:43:42
hands on in this situation i wanted to know about her vehicle when she sees this weird dude we know that there was
00:43:50
something off-putting about him or his actions or his look or whatever that was alarming enough to her that she
00:43:56
felt the need to radio out to everyone but why not jump in your vehicle and flee
00:44:02
the scene why not try to barricade yourself inside the cabin or hide behind the chainsaw
00:44:08
why did those things not happen maybe she attempted to do one or both of those in the course of being attacked
00:44:14
it's again we just don't have enough information about the murder scene to really come to any type of strong
00:44:23
conclusions in this case it's it's really a sad case and i what i'm hoping is that
00:44:31
the sheriff the current sheriff is correct and right the dna will solve this case
00:44:36
and thank god that they do seem to have suspect dna in this case because it might be the only thing that they do
00:44:42
have you know i'm hoping that this case does not go cold there's not been a ton of movement on it
00:44:48
in the recent years and regardless of the embezzlement or whatever look none of us are perfect angels
00:44:55
but whatever happened to kathy was horrible and despicable and whether it was random or targeted
00:45:02
it's very sad there likely is a very bad man on the loose that's capable of stabbing someone to death
00:45:13
[Music] want to thank you guys so much for joining us here in the garage and joining us every week make sure you
00:45:33
subscribe to the podcast and make sure you check out our website true crime garage for everything true crime
00:45:41
colonel do we have any recommended reading how about a little recommended listening captain look we were off a
00:45:47
couple of weeks ago and i got several emails from some of our beautiful weekly listeners that said hey
00:45:53
where's this week's episode true crime garage is my favorite podcast and i don't have anything to listen to and my
00:45:59
reply was the same each time sent them the following questions are you subscribed to our other show the show
00:46:05
that is sweeping the nation off the record next week we are releasing off the record episode number 140 140 episodes
00:46:15
so not only do you get a new off the record episode every other week but you'll also have a back catalog of well
00:46:22
over 100 episodes to listen to make sure you check out off the record you can find that
00:46:28
by going to truecrimegarage.com click on the off the record link and start listening today thanks to everyone
00:46:36
for joining us this week here in the garage cheers to you captain cheers to all the wonderful listeners out there
00:46:41
make sure you join us back here next week for a new case until then be good be kind and don't listen
00:46:56
[Applause] [Music] you