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foreign [Music] [Applause] [Music] thank you welcome to True Crime garage wherever
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you are whatever you are doing thanks for listening I'm your host Nick and with me as always the Brazilian
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bombshell he is the captain I'm neither Brazilian or a bombshell I do not know who writes these things well it's good
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and then the other guy and thanks for telling a friend [Music] tonight we are drinking circuit Bohemian
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Evansville Indiana [Music] garage great three and a half bottle caps out of five circuit Bohemian
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what does that mean I think she means you're funny you're like a funny guy I I've never caught a comedian nasty hey
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30th on June 5th all right cheers mates and uh like your jib next up in Parts Unknown oh we got more we got more man
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outs every show next up from Parts Unknown wait we have an announcement from the town crier the flag football
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around gross all right that's enough of the business for everything true crime garage go to True Crime garage.com all
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right gather around grab a chair grab a beer and let's talk some true crime this is true crime garage
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[Music] and this is the case of the Delphi murders [Music] foreign [Music] ly 24 hours of course since they were
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reported missing 13 year olds Liberty German Abigail Williams last seen around one o'clock Monday afternoon near the
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Monon high bridge that abandoned rail Bridge just outside of Delphi and the News 18's Brad oppenheim joins us now
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live from Carroll County where that surge continues at this hour Brad Jeff like you said Liberty German and
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Abigail Williams were last seen yesterday afternoon when they were dropped off near that bridge now they
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had made arrangements to be picked up by family members later that afternoon but
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they never showed up now a staging area has been set up at the Delphi fire department and since I've been here I've
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seen hundreds of people come in and out of this staging area we are told that volunteers will be sent out in groups
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where they will comb the area in efforts to find these two girls I was able to actually catch up with
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Abigail Williams mother Anna Williams and she says she is Amazed by the outpouring of support from the community
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I also spoke with the Carroll County Sheriff toe blessingby and he says they are working with officials on getting an
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Amber Alert issued just in the last couple hours I have been at the staging area I've seen and spoke from volunteers
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that don't even live in Carroll County including one man from West Lafayette who came over and joined the search he
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said he has a teenage daughter himself and wanted to do what he could to make sure those girls make it home safe
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safe [Music] well as you heard in the trailer there we have two missing girls and this is a
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very popular case right now it's it's on the news maybe you've seen the Billboards but in Delphi Indiana there's
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been a homicide there's been two homicides of teenage girls and they went missing on Monday February
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13th later that week the bodies are found its rule to homicide and they're looking for the guy or killers that
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committed these crimes now the thing here is this is actually very different from what we would normally cover and I
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know it doesn't sound so different right away but when I say February 13th I mean
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February 13 2017 usually we don't cover cases this recent this is a very not just ongoing investigation like we see
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in a lot of the cold cases that we've covered but this is an investigation that is is very hot right now it's it's
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heated up there's a massive Nationwide search for a suspect and there's a couple things that become pretty
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difficult for us to produce the show about this case one law enforcement's keeping a lot of things close to their
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vest um that way when they do have a suspect that they can charge they'll be more
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likely that they can actually get a convey addiction so I think that's smart on law enforcement but it's hard to
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produce a show right um talking about this case the other thing is their so there's not a lot of evidence out there
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there's a bunch of weird speculation um and there is nobody arrested yet correct and this was a case that we were
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getting requests from all over the country to cover this thing late February and this is relatively close to
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us uh probably the biggest case in Midwest right now yeah and we kept talking about covering it because this
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is something we're incredibly passionate about as the captain said we're close to
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where this took place this is an ongoing investigation that we've been keeping up
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with in the news and trying to keep track of ourselves the problem was we weren't really equipped to cover it in
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late February there wasn't a whole lot of information out there now we sit here in in May and maybe there's not that
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much more information that's been released since then but we we feel an obligation to cover it at this time
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they're they're hunting this guy I believe they can find him and we'd like to do our part yeah and our part is just
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to you know shed some light on this case put it in the put it on the desk of some
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armchair detectives talk about the timeline talk about some theories maybe some suspects maybe somebody out there
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could add some value to the case well let's start off with the timeline regarding The Disappearance and
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investigation regarding the murders of young Liberty and Abigail to provide you with a little bit of background so this
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all starts on Monday of February 13th this is the Carroll County Schools they only have a half day of school scheduled
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for this day so only classes for the first half of the day because the rest of the day they've scheduled some
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teacher conferences and staff meetings at 1 pm a family member drops off the girls at a trail near the monin bridge
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now this is an abandoned railroad bridge over Deer Creek around 5 30 p.m the girls fail to show up at a predetermined
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location to be picked up by a family member the family looks for the girl searching the immediate area when they
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turn up nothing the girls are then reported missing so almost immediately these two young girls are reported
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missing that night a large search effort involving volunteers and multiple law enforcement agencies well that's
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underway they scoured the area in an attempt to find Liberty in Abigail the search is then called off due to
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Darkness and that's not none of this is too weird at first right I mean we've all been dropped off by a you know a
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parent maybe you and your friend are going to go to the mall maybe you're going to see a movie your parents are
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going to drop you off and we're going to meet meet up at this time now before the
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age of cell phones you know that would be way different because you couldn't text if there was a
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um you know a [ __ ] in the snafu yeah so this is pretty simple though but we have
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a gap of roughly four and a half hours yeah the girls were going to go out and enjoy the weather that day was
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unseasonably warm form for February in Indiana and they were going to go out hiking for a while they're supposed to
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be picked up at 5 30 p.m they're nowhere to be found so around midnight that night the Carroll County Sheriff this is
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Tobe Lazenby he says uh that they are going to call off the search you know it's getting very dark out at that time
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they they had no reason to expect or suspect Foul Play or believe that the girls were in any immediate danger now
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their biggest concern at this point would be exposure to the elements because it is a February night and even
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though the day was quite warm it's going to get quite cold that night and the girls were hiking just outside the town
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of Delphi which has a very small population of three thousand smaller community and even though that the
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search was called off around midnight now some Searchers lingered and it's believed that they were still searching
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the area until about 2 30 that morning now Tuesday February 14th early Tuesday morning the search resume resumes with
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with teams of volunteers they have police officers the effort also includes canine units and dive teams around noon
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Searchers find two bodies this is about a half mile to three quarters of a mile away from the bridge that they were they
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were walking on that they were dropped off nearby right so let's just keep this clear they're dropped off on Monday at
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roughly about 1 pm to go hiking people search Monday night they can't find anybody they don't find the girls they
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come back Tuesday and roughly in the afternoon they find the bodies of the two girls yeah it's right around noon on
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that Tuesday now at 2 p.m this is a news conference takes place this is all the authorities involved you have the
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Carroll County Sheriff you have the city of Delphi police chief and an Indiana State Police official they announced the
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discovery of the bodies but they give no indication of their identities they say
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for the first time that Foul Play is suspected in connection with the case when pushed by media as to why Foul Play
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is expected a public relations officer simply says they suspect Foul Play because the way the bodies were found
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meaning just immediate obvious signs of of Foul Play to those people that found the bodies right and they're not
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releasing if there was any trauma what kind of wounds there were right there were if there were any wounds if
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there was any sign of strangulation or anything they're not releasing any of that there's no specifics now I believe
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it was firefighters that may have found the bodies and even though the sheriff and the state police do not immediately
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identify the found bodies I believe when the firefighters radioed this in they said we found the missing girls and it's
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not good at 4 pm on Tuesday Delphi Community schools superintendent Gregory briles
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releases a statement saying that the bodies found in the afternoon are those of the two missing Delphi Community
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Middle School students and despite no confirmation from police he's stating that it's the two girls we were looking
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for briles says that a grief counselor will be made available to students and staff and he later says that school
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security will be stepped up and all of the after-school activities at Delphi Community Middle will be canceled for
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the remainder of the week and a local Methodist Church is going to hold a candlelight visual again at this point
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law enforcement is not making the statements or the claims that these are the missing girls correct because on
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Wednesday February 15th at 8 A.M the autopsies are conducted in Terre Haute regarding the bodies discovered during
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Tuesday's search now their local law enforcement and authorities are going to hold a meeting after afterwards this is
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around 10 a.m on Wednesday Sergeant Riley with the Indiana State Police provides a brief update on the
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investigation he says that the autopsies are complete but he declines to confirm
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the identities or discuss a suspect or person of interest in the case he says police have received hundreds of tips
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from the community and he advises parents to keep a close eye on their children and monitor their whereabouts
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at 3 pm on that same day Indiana State Police and the Carroll County Sheriff's Department hold a news conference
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confirming that the bodies found on Tuesday are those of Liberty and Abigail they say the case is being investigated
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as a double homicide they say they don't believe that there is any immediate danger to the community that same night
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is 7 PM Indiana State Police release a photo of a man reportedly walking on the trail around the same time of the girl's
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disappearance now they never say that this man is a suspect they they supplied a photo of the man and they say we would
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like to talk to this guy we believe we have identified everyone that was walking in the area of the time when the
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girls went missing but this guy was there around that time we have not identified him we would like to speak
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with him we would like to find out if he has saw anything or maybe he might know
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something police say they want to talk to this individual but again not calling him assessment how did they get the
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picture we'll get into that on Thursday February 16th at 6 PM the police set up a tip line for anyone with information
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regarding the case and they can call 844-459-5786 that tip line is still working today they say that they've had
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upwards of 250 tips so far at this point in the investigation at 7 45 PM the Indiana State Police serve a search
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warrant in connection with the case at a home in Delphi but no arrests are made well this is not the only search that's
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going to take place no there's there's several search warrants that will be issued and executed because they're
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looking for people in the area right and we have one individual where his property the the bodies are found on his
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property they will conduct the search of his property as well as his home it was
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also misreported in the media that they had received multiple search warrants for this guy's property when in fact it
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was other nearby properties that they were searching as well that people because this is a rural area the media
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thought that this was still a continuation of his property which which it was not now there were several search
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warrants conducted as we said um and all of these none no arrests are made at the time there's one in
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particular that was that we'll get to he's not arrested regarding crimes involving the murders or The
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Disappearance of these girls but police keep reminding everyone that they should
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not be creating rumors or just because somebody is questioned or someone in their property has searched that that
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does not mean that they are a suspect in the double homicide that there's they still have to conduct a certain level of
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police activity and Sheriff activity of other things that were going on before these crimes took place well this is a
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lot harder to do in such a small community yeah everybody's eyes are watching you now on Saturday February
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18th there is a public visitation for the girls this is held at the Delphi High School now on Sunday we're going to
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see a little bit of Shifting Gears here in the investigation on Sunday February 19th the Indiana State Police say that
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the man photographed walking along the trail around the times of the girl's disappearance is a suspect in their
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deaths they again though they do not know the identity of this man so what I'm going to do is I'm going to post
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this picture on our Instagram now if you're sitting there thinking hey I don't have Instagram it's okay go to our
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website at truecrimegarage.com and you'll actually see a a page that has just the photos from our Instagram on it
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and you can click on there to see the photograph of the man on the bridge on Monday February 20th police say they are
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conducting a Statewide Manhunt for the man seen in the photo and tell everyone to continue providing information via
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the hotline set up for tips in this case the Carroll County prosecutor he cautions Delphi residents not to harass
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bother or accuse anyone especially those who live at a home that was the subject
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of a search warrant that was served the previous week now on Tuesday February 21st an official says that the teen's
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death could lead to security changes along the monin High Bridge Trail now this is they're going to possibly talk
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about installing security cameras and things like that this is an area that while it was frequented by hikers it's
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also frequented by teenagers that are just kind of hanging out and you know doing what teenagers do now on Wednesday
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what's that um you'd have to ask the teenagers one you're saying something that's pretty
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telling as you were saying that but hey we might be we might have to beef up Security on this this bridge and this
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these hiking paths right and we got to do so by adding a camera again so how the hell did they get a
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picture of this guy well that that's perfect because that leads us to what took place on Wednesday on February 22nd
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the investigators hold a news conference to update the status of the investigation police revealed that
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Liberty Germans she recorded video and audio of the suspect that they are seeking on her cell phone the Indiana
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State Police releases an audio recording of a man's voice saying down the hill do
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you have a copy of that that we could hear yeah yeah all right so obviously that's not the
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best quality and it's just a loop of a man saying down the hill down the hill and that's what the law enforcement is
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providing to the public correct now we should assume that that's not the only audio clip that they have that is just
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the clip that they decided to Loop and give to the public yeah they're they're stating that that Liberty or Libby uh
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had video and audio on her phone and the thing here is like like the captain said
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we don't know how much video was recorded we don't know how much audio was recorded did she simply hit the
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record button on on her video or what pictures were taken either exactly but at the same time they announced that the
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audio is is from the prime suspect in the Delphi double murder case and authorities announced that a forty one
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thousand dollar reward for information leading to a to an arrest in the girls murders that that reward has started off
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pretty small and it's it's growing at this point it's at 41 000 back in February 22nd well let's talk a little
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bit about the elephant in the room okay so did they find so I'm I'm assuming that
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law enforcement found Libby's phone and that's how they'd have this information and then you'd think well if somebody
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attacked these girls if this you know if it was murder then this you know guy must have been you know pretty dumb to
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leave the cell phone well they're with them there have been a lot of questions about Liberty's phone you know first off
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how much audio and video was recorded I have heard there is as little as six minutes I have also heard that there may
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be as little as six minutes six minutes is a long time it's quite a bit of time but I've also heard that there may be
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more than 40 minutes recorded yeah that's that's a ridiculous amount of time so there are reports saying that
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that six minutes of audio tape contains the horrifying record of the homicide itself uh so if this were true the
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attack would have happened very quickly but we do know that there was some video
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recorded right before the abduction we're assuming this this is where they got the the picture of the man walking
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on the bridge we also know that there was some recording of of audio uh that may have you know when he's saying down
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the hill what kind of instruction is that he's he's directing these girls somewhere is it to a vehicle is it to a
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different location um but I'm guessing that that if I had to get you know we don't know
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how long her phone would have recorded before it before it died you know but I'm guessing that that we're thinking
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there is more audio and more video than just six minutes in my opinion but the other rumor is the question about the
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phone is you know where where is this phone because at 5 30 pm and for several hours Liberty's phone was pinging all
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over town the the phone was not in her possession during this time is what would make you think because where she
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disappeared is near where she's found well you but also it's such a rural area that you'd you'd I would just assume
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that you know if you're in this you know you're hiking that maybe you'd you'd be
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kind of pinging from all different locations and how um how much validity should I put on that
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how much weight should I put on that and well and the thing here too the fascinating question about the phone is
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whether or not it was recovered you know there's there's a theory that Liberty's
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phone was not recovered and all of the audio and video was taken from the from the iCloud that from right so so
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basically what happened was like if you record a voice memo on your phone and you have your Cloud set up that it
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instantly goes to your Cloud as well right so what they're saying is you know and this is very important I think for
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people to kind of wrap their head around this is something you shouldn't spend a
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bunch of time on was the phone left or was it you know or what did did the did the killer take the phone it doesn't
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matter we have the information at least from the cloud right right well let's go
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do you mind if I go through some options here because of you know what if if it was not if it was not recovered
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um you know then the theory would be there's only a few theories you could come up with right that Liberty got rid
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of her phone at some point maybe she threw it in the woods um you know she could have thrown it in
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the woods to to avoid it being found by their abductor um maybe somebody would find it later
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um again her phone is pinging all over town for several hours during the search now I've been told that this would be
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possible if the phone were in the woods or near the woods where the girls were abducted that the phone pings
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um look it's not something thing that I'm going to pretend that I fully understand so I'm just going to have to
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believe the person that told me that if the phone were in the woods or near the woods it very likely could have pinged
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all over town this would make sense if the phone was in the woods but it appears now uh possibly
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you know who knows where this thing was the other idea is that the killer found Liberty's cell phone so the killer
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either disposed of the phone you know threw it in the garbage or through the phone in the river or destroyed it by
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Smashing it to bits and that's why it's never been found I think if the phone was not recovered
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the killer probably did something with it I think throwing it in the river might make the most sense right um
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because he's hoping like I said destroy whatever's on that phone right because the thought process here
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for this individual and I would just assume this and individuals in their mid-30s to 50 right I'm just going to
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put that age range out there and I would just assume that they thought well if let's say they saw Liberty used her
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phone and maybe said oh well she pushed recorded this guy might not understand how the phone actually works but thinks
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well if I just throw it in the river it destroyed and they'll never have that evidence right well aha we have this
00:27:12
thing called the cloud and this is where technology you got to applaud technology at this point right
00:27:18
yeah yeah because you can have your phone set up in a manner that it will immediately send information to the
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cloud well and the reason why I was saying applaud technology is these might be the clues or the evidence that you
00:27:31
have to present in in a trial to lock this person up for the rest of their life now on Thursday February 23rd the
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state police they say that they've received 3 900 tips in the case with 1 900 of them coming in after the release
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of the audio recording and then there's another donation this is from U.S representative Todd rokita he donates
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his office donates nine thousand so now the reward amount is now fifty thousand dollars yeah but the Indianapolis Colts
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they they donated some money as well right yes yeah the the reward in this case will grow exponentially over the
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next couple of weeks on this same day on February 23rd the Indiana State Police announced that the FBI has taken over
00:28:20
the tip hotline well let's get right back to this case after this quick beer break
00:28:27
[Music] [Music] all right we're back cheers mates cheers so we're talking about The Disappearance
00:28:46
in the murder of two young girls we have Liberty who is 14 years old and we have
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Abigail who is 13 years old and you might often hear both of them refer to as Libby and Abby these are best friends
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they're dropped off near the monin High Park bridge and they disappear they find
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the bodies just the day later and announce the day after that it is in fact the bodies of the two young girls
00:29:12
now where we're at on the timeline here this brings us up to Tuesday February 28th
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by this time police have received close to 10 000 tips the reward money is now a
00:29:25
hundred thousand dollars but police are also saying despite rumors that they have not made any arrest in connection
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with the deaths of Liberty and Abigail police asked the public not to jump to conclusions or to spread rumors on
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social media because there was a lot of questions involving their deaths there's
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like the captain had said earlier not a lot of information that's being released
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as far as the investigation and details of such but we do have some evidence that's coming out we're having this
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information that's collected from Liberty's phone correct and what we have so far is we have a picture that we can
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assume is maybe taken from a video or or a Snapchat we're not really for sure and we have an audio clip a very
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small one saying down the hill looped and again we can assume that there's more audio information on our phone
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again now with the phone we don't know if the phone was recovered or if this information was recovered from the cloud
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now on Wednesday March 1st this is when the Indianapolis Colts they donated ninety seven thousand dollars to bring
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the reward money to two hundred thousand dollars that same day the grandparents of Abby Williams they leave a an
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emotional note at the police headquarters that it expresses their gratitude for those involved in the
00:30:50
investigation and those investigating the case the we we don't need to go through all
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of the donations um because for the next few days we'll we'll continue to see local companies
00:31:01
donating money but one thing that was interesting was we also had a donation from the Lowe's company that's the the
00:31:07
Home Improvement do-it-yourself store they donated 1 000 orange light bulbs to the residents of Delphi and they did a
00:31:17
campaign called light up Delphi you know everybody would install these orange light bulbs on their front porch lamps
00:31:23
to you know as a tribute to Abby and Liberty and I saw pictures of of that light up Delphi and it was a pretty cool
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memorial that the whole city was able to take part in all right so where are we at on this timeline on March 9th Mike
00:31:38
Patty he's the grandfather of Liberty um he will speak to the media for the first time since the deaths of Libby and
00:31:45
Abby he thanks the community for outpouring of support and says that he believes tips will help solve this case
00:31:53
well we have this individual like we said the picture and there's an interview that I heard by a local man
00:31:59
and the sheriff and both of them in the interview which I thought was interesting and I think is kind of
00:32:05
telling of where the sheriff might you know or where the law enforcement actually might believe they're at in
00:32:12
this scenario they have this individual and like I said we have a very small town roughly about 3 000 people
00:32:18
and two individuals that are on the phone that one was a local man interviewing the sheriff and both of
00:32:24
them stated this guy didn't recognize him and so when you release this photo the guy that
00:32:30
was interviewing the sheriff was like look I was hopeful that you're going to release this photo and would be able to
00:32:35
identify this guy it's a small town but neither this man nor the sheriff were able to identify this individual and
00:32:43
like we talked about before there's tons of um well maybe we didn't talk about this
00:32:48
before but there was tons of billboards across the country I think in 43 States it was yeah it was it may have been all
00:32:57
of the major 48 states but it was something yeah 43 46 some odd states that they put these Billboards up there
00:33:04
was actually one a few miles from my home there's a major road there and they had one and it has a picture of both of
00:33:11
the victims as well as the the pixelated picture the grainy picture that we see of the suspect along with the phone
00:33:18
number in the email that you can submit these anonymous tips to which makes you wonder if law enforcement believes that
00:33:25
this individual is traveling like maybe a truck driver or something of that nature yeah maybe he wasn't
00:33:33
local maybe he was somebody that fled the area after the the case went underway all right so let's just dive
00:33:40
into this photo real quick and again I'm going to post this on uh our Instagram which will also be visible on the
00:33:47
website if you don't have Instagram so maybe you can take a look at this individual and maybe pick up some things
00:33:52
that others aren't so discussing the suspect the guy in the photo right um an expert on CNN said that they
00:34:01
suspect that this person is about five foot ten 180 pounds with a bit of a middle-aged man's stomach punch
00:34:10
law enforcement their latest estimate is that the man is 40 to 50 years old now I've seen the photos in my opinion I I
00:34:21
think that seems a little young to me I I look at this picture now and and mind you yes this is a grainy photo or
00:34:28
pixelated might be the better word to use here but I see you know I don't think they're far off I see more like 45
00:34:35
to 55 years old I definitely see the punch you know the the bit of the beer belly there well he's also bundled up
00:34:43
with a coat and a jacket yeah yeah he he appears to be wearing layers of clothing
00:34:50
um and this could be this could be a manner of disguising himself but another reason is this might have left few areas
00:34:59
of his body exposed uh and this would be where the girls could fight back you know they could leave scratch marks on
00:35:07
him when they fight back and maybe his intention was to cover up as much of himself as he could right but but
00:35:14
regardless remember we said it was unseasonably worn that day he is definitely overdressed for that day
00:35:21
there he has a hat on of some nature I don't know if it's uh it looks kind of like a ball cap but it could be the
00:35:29
toboggan uh also he has his hands in his pockets and uh it's a blue jacket with blue jeans now and so there's a and it
00:35:40
looks like he's wearing a hoodie under the jacket so definitely a little over uh Dressed well and you bring up a good
00:35:47
point there because early in this investigation amongst the public there was quite the debate over whether the
00:35:55
guy was wearing a hat or not or maybe if he just had a hoodie pulled up uh covering his hair the thing here is they
00:36:02
actually released two pictures um and in one picture to me it looks like I'm seeing hair you know like
00:36:10
almost like there's a part in the hair and this would be what is that brown to to maybe dark brown hair yeah or maybe
00:36:19
has some uh salt and pepper the other the other thought was that if he was wearing a hat uh which this might go
00:36:28
along with the theory that he was trying to disguise himself or cover up of as much of himself as he could
00:36:35
that it could be a camouflage hunting cap with padded ear muffs you know the kind that kind of drops down over your
00:36:43
ears on both sides and that making it hard to tell from the distance that this picture is taken now one thing I've
00:36:50
noticed it looks to me like some have suggested maybe he's wearing a scarf around his neck
00:36:59
the way that that thing catches the the light the thing that's hanging from his his neck in the inseen in both pictures
00:37:07
it almost looks like it could be the corner of like some goggles you know like the like goggles that aren't on his
00:37:14
head but they're kind of hanging from his neck yeah I see that possum possibly yeah one
00:37:21
thing I want to point out here too as we're describing this picture is there's a man by the name of Robert Lindsay he's
00:37:28
a uh a writer and blogger he spent a lot of time covering this case in a lot of my research came from some articles that
00:37:35
he has written uh but law enforcement states that the guy could be wearing a fanny pack
00:37:44
um now Robert Lindsay will point out that what law enforcement is referring to as a fanny pack is actually called a
00:37:52
deer kit this is something that would contain like knives scissors you know different things for cutting up a deer
00:38:00
after you kill it so Robert Lindsay is going off of the theory that the guy is possibly a hunter yeah well when you see
00:38:10
again his hands are in his pockets and there's something on his right by his right hand side where it's either you
00:38:17
know a t-shirt or something that's coming out from underneath his jacket or again like you said it's some kind of
00:38:24
pack fanny pack or uh some kind of hunting pack and and and not the close-up picture but the picture that's
00:38:33
a little bit further away it definitely looks more like some kind of fanny pack yeah and like Robert says it almost
00:38:41
looks too flat to be a traditional type fanny pack to me again we're looking at a picture that's taken from quite some
00:38:48
ways away but it does look flat if it is in fact a deer kit I would think that Robert
00:38:55
Lindsay might be right regarding that the guy could be a hunter because I don't think that that's something that
00:39:01
would be common knowledge to everybody that that such a kit even exists right and we were talking earlier and I was
00:39:08
saying that necessarily just because there's a picture of this individual doesn't mean that this individual was or
00:39:15
a possible suspect now where I'm going to come back on that on is that you know this this picture is
00:39:22
coming we can assume from Libby's phone so therefore they have to know more about this footage than we do yeah uh
00:39:32
and I then my argument too is like isn't there wouldn't there be a better picture
00:39:36
of this individual yeah now now he's on a bridge right so the other thing that we kind of need to bring up is uh
00:39:45
Snapchat right so we all see teenagers always on their phone taking pictures of all these things
00:39:53
at some point from Libby's Snapchat she takes a picture from the bridge and she takes a now I'm assuming that she's
00:40:02
taking a picture of Abby of Abby and Abby's walking it's a very interesting picture and I
00:40:08
think you need to take a look for yourself this picture would have been released on her Snapchat account I
00:40:15
believe at 207 p.m um they were dropped off at one this thing came out about 207 p.m so the
00:40:22
thought is you know for at least the first hour or so of their hiking trip everything was going according to plan
00:40:30
everything was you know it was a normal day out hiking right and like we said there's roughly about four to four and a
00:40:36
half hour window so now now that we know that this is you know released about an
00:40:43
hour into the hike now our Windows a little bit smaller if you look at this picture that she
00:40:49
took on Snapchat now it's very grainy but there's uh on the bridge there's these little platforms on the side it
00:40:55
seems like she's standing on one of the platforms and the background this is something
00:41:01
that people have talked about in the background there's something on the other side of the tracks there's
00:41:06
like a shadow or a dark figure dark spot on the picture well I and I see that I'm going to try to make
00:41:14
mine uh the picture bigger because I want to I wanted to present something to you yeah I I can see the
00:41:24
one that you're talking about um here and there's a few some people have made an argument and I
00:41:32
think maybe a decent argument that there might be a hidden object so to speak in
00:41:37
this picture yeah so here's what's weird is when you start researching this case a lot of
00:41:43
people say well there's this individual that's there I don't see that I see these like two
00:41:50
almost like sticks or whatever and if you really zoom in I know this I'm gonna have to edit this yeah but basically
00:41:57
what people are saying is that is that a man that is hiding watching Abby right but not on the bridge not the on the end
00:42:05
of the bridge or you were saying even possibly in the woods to the right yeah there's speculation about both so the
00:42:12
dark spot you were talking about would would put would position this person if they're in fact there right but behind
00:42:18
these little two dark spots what I see is two headlights and a white vehicle that's what I see you know now is there
00:42:27
a dark spot 100 uh there's 100 a dark spot is it a person watching her on the bridge I can't
00:42:36
come to that conclusion it looks to me at that portion of the picture this would be if you're looking at the
00:42:41
picture of Abby at home this would be right at the start of the bridge or maybe even just before you get to the
00:42:48
bridge on the left side of the picture you can see what appears to be two dark spots now the captain's saying he sees a
00:42:55
possible vehicle behind the dark spots well yeah but there's two dark spots so I'm not I don't want to go too far down
00:43:01
this rabbit hole but two individuals standing in front of a white vehicle that is certainly a possibility but that
00:43:10
that portion of the picture itself to me looks like an area that might create a lot of Shadows we can see from Libby
00:43:19
walking that uh I'm sorry Abby walking there that we can see her Shadow to the left of her she's facing us her Shadows
00:43:28
to the left of her so if if there were trees or some kind of obstruction back there just before the bridge they might
00:43:36
be casting a shadow that that we're seeing creating that dark spot leading to the bridge
00:43:42
the other portion that was talked about was to the right of this now this would not be the entrance to the bridge this
00:43:49
would be in the woods to the right of the entrance of the bridge there's a dark spot that appears near a tree or
00:43:57
either behind a tree I can definitely see the dark spot other people have pointed out that that could be a man in
00:44:03
dark clothing standing there um I I don't see a man at all um I it could just be I'd like to see a
00:44:11
photo uh that's taken at the same time of day on another day you know what I mean with
00:44:17
similar conditions to see if there's the same kind of shadow effects are the same
00:44:21
or even dark spots presented yeah and again just you know take a look at it I mean maybe you can add something to the
00:44:28
conversation I want to stay on the photo of Abby here for a minute from the from
00:44:32
the Instagram uh or Snapchat and I hate this is Libby's Snapchat yeah and I hate
00:44:37
to get all you know where's Waldo on you but it's very interesting because there
00:44:42
could be a clue that's hiding in this picture here um and and another thing that people have discussed and this is
00:44:50
not the vehicle that the captain was referring to but is there a car in this photo or some type of vehicle that is in
00:44:57
this photo now if you're looking at the picture of Abby on the bridge okay and I
00:45:02
want to be clear because you there's many different versions of this same picture some of them are cropped but if
00:45:08
you look at one that shows her feet she's wearing some kind of tennis shoes if you can see her her feet then you
00:45:13
might be able to see what what I'm going to point out here that in the lower left
00:45:19
corner of the photo of Abby on the bridge this would be below the bridge itself is there a vehicle there now no one no
00:45:29
one knows for sure if that's a car or not in the photo many people say that they cannot even make out a vehicle in
00:45:35
that photo I can see a vehicle in this photo but what I can't tell you is is this some kind of Illusion is this the
00:45:46
trees and such is it the background just showing some kind of pattern that resembles a vehicle or is there actually
00:45:53
a vehicle there now I've been told that there is a road there that this is this road would be a very little used road
00:46:02
and then almost no one has you know no one even really knows about this road they've not heard about the road it's
00:46:10
quite hard to find it's hard to get to like our podcast it appears to have been a road that was used by workers to
00:46:19
maintain the bridge at some point but the new rumor going around says that law enforcement believes that the Killer's
00:46:26
vehicle was parked at a Trailhead on the South Side so is it is it a vehicle is it the suspect's vehicle we can't say
00:46:36
for certain that it is a vehicle I personally I think I see a vehicle there right I I actually think law enforcement
00:46:43
is talking about the vehicle that I think I see we'll actually talk about it because there was a vehicle that kind of
00:46:49
matches that description that was impounded recently I will get to that later the other interesting thing about
00:46:55
this is as like I said the technology we have no way of knowing which per uh which picture was taken first so you
00:47:04
know are we getting this Snapchat picture was that taken before uh or after the picture of the suspect
00:47:11
I don't think that's common knowledge I have to ask you a question because there's you you had stated you think
00:47:18
that law enforcement might be talking about the vehicle you think you see right and I I want to kind of back up
00:47:24
that a little bit you might be on to something here because if in fact law enforcement believes that the Killer's
00:47:31
vehicle was parked at the trailhead on the South Side that's where the picture would be pointing or the camera would be
00:47:37
pointing would be the South Side Right possibly the only the only problem with that is I've heard that people have said
00:47:44
that it appears that she's walking northward on the bridge she's walking towards the north if she were in fact
00:47:51
walking towards the north then the shadow of her is in the wrong place does that make any sense it should be on the
00:47:58
opposite side of her if she's in fact walking northward however people that are familiar with that bridge they think
00:48:04
that the portion of the bridge behind her is the south side yeah but I think also
00:48:11
depending on what cameras she's using the camera would be flipping well and that's why I wanted to ask you this
00:48:18
question because you you know you have a better knowledge of cameras than I do you have a better knowledge of Snapchat
00:48:24
than I do I've I've heard I've heard it suggested from both viewpoints that that
00:48:31
a camera could reverse it or SnapChat might reverse the image yeah I'm I'm not a hundred percent let's
00:48:41
I don't I don't know I just I just know that if you take a picture that's normally a coming
00:48:48
you know uh the way Snapchat does it you can flip it okay so she could have flipped it yeah so but
00:48:58
but no what I'm saying is that if you just open it up and take a picture I don't think it flips it let's see I'm
00:49:06
gonna take a picture of you and I hope it doesn't flip it Okay so so it's possible that she's walking
00:49:15
Southward if we if we are to believe the Shadow or if what anybody says out there
00:49:20
regarding Snapchat or possible the camera phone that that the image is flipped then she is in fact walking
00:49:28
northward and we would be seeing the south end of the bridge yeah I'm going to believe whoever you know is more
00:49:35
familiar with that area well that's an interesting podcast you know talk about a bunch of visuals yeah we got all
00:49:42
visual there but I I would I would beg to argue can you see it in your mind's eye I would beg to argue that by this
00:49:48
point um with our our listeners that they've probably seen the pictures of the man
00:49:54
they've seen the pictures of uh of her on the bridge on most people listen on their phone so they can kind of just
00:50:00
listen to the podcast why they Google image this stuff on Monday March 13th remember the trail safety task force
00:50:08
this was the one that was set up to beef up Security in the area the they meet to
00:50:14
discuss security gaps along delphi's trail system and they start making recommendations for potential changes
00:50:21
now on that Friday the 17th the Indiana State Police the FBI and Carroll County sheriff's deputies they serve a search
00:50:31
warrant at the home and property of Ron Logan who owns the property where the bodies of Abby and Libby were found
00:50:40
in February now Logan is taken into custody earlier that week before they serve the search warrant but he's taken
00:50:49
into custody on unrelated charges so that's the UI charge yeah so let's discuss this a little bit he was on
00:50:56
probation for DUI uh and I don't know if he's had several of them or what his history is with this but we know he's on
00:51:03
probation for DUI what takes place is they are aware that he's broken the the rules of his
00:51:11
probation he is not to be drinking and he's not to be driving well he when asked where he is that day
00:51:20
he's he starts telling them that he was out buying tropical fish um and that he had to drive somewhere x
00:51:27
amount of miles away he spent a good deal of time there and returned home with these tropical fish well that puts
00:51:32
him in in one problem because he is not supposed to be driving right so he drove
00:51:39
him some self somewhere and furthermore I think they have evidence that he was actually at a bar drinking for a portion
00:51:48
of that day as well so he's now not only has he violated his probation Logan was
00:51:54
getting his Day drink home yeah Not only was he violating the probation by driving by drinking by probably drinking
00:52:01
and driving but it also looks like he's not been very forthcoming with law enforcement about his whereabouts or
00:52:09
what his activities were that day well he might be so drunk he can't remember well you know in in his defense now now
00:52:16
now he looks hang on here Captain I'm just I'm laughing because it's the guy that drinks a lot coming to
00:52:26
the defense of a guy that drinks a lot well the in his defense um he might not be sorry he might not be
00:52:33
fully cooperating with police because he's terrified of getting busted on breaking his probation charge whoa right
00:52:40
then and two and then uh look let's let's be honest if if you had property more than let's say a couple acres or or
00:52:48
whatever property you have if if individuals are found and they were murdered they were murdered and they
00:52:54
were found on your property you wouldn't you feel protective yourself like you know
00:53:01
why wouldn't you believe that you're a possible suspect from the word go yeah and and even when he wasn't forthcoming
00:53:09
with police um we have seen him been been somewhat forthcoming with media you know he gave
00:53:14
several interviews there's there's interviews of him walking the media people around on his property yeah if
00:53:21
you if you just uh to a YouTube search for you know uh Delphi murders a lot of the reports they'll have different
00:53:28
individuals that live in the area and you'll see this individual over and over yeah and we should be clear about his
00:53:34
property right you know it's not like us it's not like my neighborhood where all
00:53:39
the homes are on a plot of land that's about 5 000 square feet now he's got a big sprawling property it's not like
00:53:47
they found them right in his backyard right beside his house and where these nature trails are and where these people
00:53:55
go hiking it's it's not always clear it wouldn't be clear to you and I hiking through there where the hiking trails
00:54:01
and in Ron Logan's property begins Friday March 24th the authorities announced that the investigation into
00:54:11
the teen's death will begin to look a little different in the coming weeks as they begin the normalization process in
00:54:19
this investigation I think that's kind of them stating to us to not expect to see additional photos or video or maybe
00:54:29
even audio coming out within the next few weeks that they're gonna it's gonna be more of your traditional
00:54:35
investigation at this point Thursday April 27th the victim's families announced plans to rebuild a
00:54:43
sports complex with several softball fields in honor of the girls and this fundraising event will be held on July
00:54:50
15th now regarding the investigation you can see there's there's very little information that has come out which is
00:55:00
which in a way is shocking because you see rarely are you ever presented with a photo of what they are telling you is
00:55:09
the prime suspect in a double homicide yeah but again depending on what news source you get that from some say this
00:55:17
is the prime suspect some people just say we believe this individual was on the trail roughly around the same time
00:55:22
as them my issue with it is you got to know where that they gotta let you know where that photo
00:55:32
is coming from right because is that because to this day I still I'm not 100 sure that it's coming from her phone
00:55:39
well it might not it might not but but we if we go off of the announcements and the press conferences that they have
00:55:47
made the statements that they have made now mind you they've been cryptic along the way but according to those
00:55:54
statements they eventually say you know this guy goes from somebody they want to
00:55:59
talk to to now he's the suspect this guy that we have the picture of he's the suspect and and furthermore they believe
00:56:07
that the audio they provided of us of going you know down the hill down the hill that audio individual is of that
00:56:14
suspect as well and that's why I think that makes me wonder if it's there's a video at some point yeah because then
00:56:21
you can because then in a court of law you can show a video and say see this is these are words are coming from this
00:56:28
individual's mouth yeah and and furthermore I think what that points out is that there is additional audio and
00:56:35
video and there's something on that audio and video that's making law enforcement make the connection between
00:56:41
this guy just being a picture of some guy and him actually being the guy that most likely committed the crime now
00:56:51
um you know again it's curious to wonder how much of of what they have is actual
00:56:57
video and how much of it is just audio and with so much you know little information that's coming out like we
00:57:05
said this is a hard one to discuss and there is a bunch of rumors and speculation and that's what we're gonna
00:57:10
have to get into in the next episode yeah and I think that that's the big problem that the public is having with
00:57:16
the investigation right now not so much the way that law enforcement is conducting the investigation but because
00:57:21
they saw a picture because they heard audio and they have no other answers for other things that it's leading to those
00:57:28
rumors into speculations and of course questions you know people want to know what's going on I do want to remind
00:57:34
everybody out there that the Sheriff's Office the uh Indiana State Police they have they continually remind us
00:57:44
um that they they are worried that because there's so much talk and there's so much going on in the public eye
00:57:51
there's so much speculation that that we might believe us being the public we might believe that they're very close to
00:57:57
solving this case they could be they could be but they continually remind us to not believe that we cannot think that
00:58:05
they're close to solving the case they still need more tips to come in they don't believe that that one tip that
00:58:11
they're waiting on has reached them yet and if the public believes that they've solved it or that their seconds from
00:58:17
solving it maybe they never get that tip so this is a very active hot fire investigation going on right now if
00:58:25
anybody has tips if anybody has any information at all even even if you think it's a new detail please contact
00:58:33
them and that phone number that we said earlier is still good that phone number is
00:58:40
844-459-5786 those calls are being manned by the FBI you can also send email to Abby and Libby tip at caco
00:58:50
shrf.com again that's Abby and Libby tip at c-a-c-o-s-h-r-f.com we'll put both that
00:58:59
number and email in the show notes in case anybody needs that information so tomorrow what we're going to get into is
00:59:06
some of the speculation some of the theories some of our thoughts we actually reached out to uh some web
00:59:13
sleuthers and kind of got there got the web sleuth Community involved and kind of dive into some of those theories as
00:59:21
well and we'll get to that on tomorrow's show and please take a second to go look
00:59:25
at those photos to see maybe you can bring something to the conversation again Abby and Libby were only 13 and 14
00:59:35
years old and you possibly can help in this case please take a minute to do so now thanks for joining us in the garage
00:59:42
we'll see you tomorrow and until then be good be kind and don't litter thank you
01:00:00
[Applause] [Music]