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>> [music] [music] [music] >> Welcome to True Crime Garage. Wherever you are, whatever you're doing, thanks
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And [music] Colonel, that's enough of the business. >> All right, everybody gather around, grab
00:03:37
a chair, grab a beer. Let's talk some true crime. >> [music] >> We left off on the timeline here midday
00:03:56
Tuesday, February 17th. Remember, sadly, Ashley Flynn was found dead having been
00:04:03
murdered, shot in her home in the early morning hours just the day before, one day prior. And that was Monday, February
00:04:12
16th. At noon on Tuesday, February 17th, the Tipp City Police Chief Greg Adkins issued the third, what would be the
00:04:22
third press release in this investigation. In it, he announced the addition of BCI,
00:04:30
the Ohio Bureau of Criminal Investigation, the FBI, Miami County Sheriff's Office, and Miami
00:04:37
County Prosecutor's Office would be assisting, were currently assisting as of that announcement, the Tipp City
00:04:45
Police Department in that ongoing investigation. A little bit later that day, the chief did give a brief
00:04:53
interview with the Dayton Daily News regarding the investigation. This brings us, Captain, to Wednesday, February
00:05:00
18th, 10:30 a.m. The Tipp City Police remained at the Flynn house around the clock. Investigators were seen going in
00:05:10
and out of that side door that was referenced in the 911 call and also referenced in the police report, the
00:05:17
side door to the garage on the north side of the house, as well as going in and out of the front door, of course. At
00:05:24
one point, investigators brought out an interior door and placed it in the back of a pickup truck parked on the driveway
00:05:32
and inside the yellow police tape. Presumably, this door was removed and taken in for and to be analyzed or
00:05:40
tested for whatever reason in this investigation. I said in part one that I wanted to circle back to the gun. And
00:05:48
one part of this is is the gun missing? Do they have the gun? And we're we're talking about we could be talking about
00:05:55
one gun, we could be talking about two guns, right? One the murder weapon, two the gun that Caleb said was often
00:06:01
usually stored in the console of his 2024 Ford pickup truck which was found parked inside
00:06:09
the home's garage. Right. >> Um there's been no mention of if Caleb's gun has been recovered. There's been no
00:06:16
mention if the murder weapon has been recovered. There's also been no mention if they are one in the same, which is
00:06:24
what everybody's got to be thinking about. One thing that I found incredibly intriguing and it also might point to
00:06:31
the idea that they have not recovered the gun here, Captain, is at some point, you know, talking about investigators at
00:06:38
the scene using every resource they can to hopefully collect evidence and sort out exactly what happened, get to the
00:06:46
truth of what happened in the early morning hours of Monday, February 16th, that they were seen lifting the shed
00:06:54
that's located in the backyard of this property. And it's obviously one's mind would go to
00:07:04
are they lifting the shed thinking that maybe the gun could potentially have been thrown under there, kicked under
00:07:11
there somehow, and just making sure that it is not? Or did they recover any kind
00:07:17
of evidence when they did lift this shed? >> Yeah, and because this case is so early
00:07:22
on, the cops are obviously going to keep a lot of information close to the the vest because at some point you have
00:07:32
to go from husband calls about somebody breaking in their house and killing his wife to we don't think anybody broke in
00:07:42
and we're now looking into the into the husband. And so I don't know if that's information that they feel like they got
00:07:49
or didn't get from the 911 call. Again, they have extensive cuz they're talking to him at the scene
00:07:57
and then like you said, they brought him in for questioning and at what point do
00:08:02
they go, this is just not adding up. But just because something's not adding up doesn't mean you're going to have enough
00:08:08
evidence to arrest >> him. Well, and this wouldn't be a 100% sign, sealed, delivered
00:08:17
confirmation that he is the killer, but I would be curious if they tested the husband for GSR on his hands,
00:08:28
fingers, forearms. If there would be any type of gunpowder residue, gunshot residue.
00:08:35
>> Well, that makes a lot of sense, too, because well, we believe that the murder weapon
00:08:41
is a handgun, right? But we have a distance. You were saying in episode one, this is not a situation where the killer
00:08:51
goes up on the side of the bed and points the gun directly to the victim's head.
00:08:58
>> If she were sleeping at the time that she was shot and if she's lying in a typical position, then there would be
00:09:06
some distance between the end of that barrel and the victim. Right, and why would you do that?
00:09:13
So you don't get blood on you. But also, and again, I'm just this is just my thoughts out loud if I'm the
00:09:20
investigator. Well, if the killer is the husband, then even if he got anything on him, he
00:09:29
could take a shower. But I think some of these ballistic tests, you know, >> [clears throat]
00:09:35
>> we've we've seen cases where people have showered afterwards and they still find
00:09:41
some kind of evidence on him. So, I wonder if they were able to during the questioning, are they able to, like you
00:09:48
said, run some test? I mean, if you can say his gun's missing and we can positively tell you that he fired a gun
00:09:57
that day and he didn't tell you any time within the questioning about going to a
00:10:02
fire firing range. And even if he did so, well, guess what? There's going to be receipts.
00:10:10
So, unless there's some receipts of him doing that, then that evidence would be pretty damning against Caleb. Yeah,
00:10:16
curious to see what kind of gun GSR evidence they may have. Also, some blood evidence that they may or may not have.
00:10:24
And again, this is just typical stuff that the local media's picking up on of watching the detectives, watching the
00:10:33
crime scene analyst, and people processing that crime scene and what they are removing from the crime scene
00:10:39
and what they tend to be spending a good amount of time on while they're there. On Wednesday, February 18th, just
00:10:49
before noon, this is the community pulling together and showing a display of affection and
00:10:56
sadness for the family and for Ashley Flynn in in particular. There was a colorful display of red and white
00:11:04
ribbons that were placed along Main Street and Tipp City's historic downtown district honoring Ashley Flynn.
00:11:13
Residents that knew her called Flynn an excellent teacher and a sweet woman. Others said that they were concerned
00:11:19
about the shooting, but confident in the police investigation. We did have early
00:11:25
on the police chief stating that they believed that they had reason to believe that this was a targeted attack.
00:11:33
Um we And and I always look at that with a bit of a side eye because it may I feel like that
00:11:42
statement is used a lot. I'm I'm not saying that's the situation here that it's overly used, but often times you
00:11:49
will see that sometimes it's even a rush to use that statement to to imply that there is no threat to other folks in the
00:11:57
community that this was a targeted attack. But until we have reason to call that into question, we should take that
00:12:04
at face value. Late that evening, late that night actually on Wednesday, February 18th, Chief Greg Atkins issued
00:12:13
a press release to dispel rumors circulating that a suspect is in custody or was in custody at that time. Right.
00:12:22
>> Um the rumors locally were that that somebody had confessed. And so he said very bluntly, "The release and spread of
00:12:33
unverified information is not only untrue, but also deeply detrimental to the Flynn family and unfair to those
00:12:42
involved in the investigation." Yeah, but we've seen a lot of crimes happen in small towns and people
00:12:49
confess to the crimes. It makes zero sense to me. It's always made zero sense to me.
00:12:55
But we see that in several cases. So it's not unreasonable that somebody came forward even if they're not responsible.
00:13:03
But like I was saying in part one, it seems like his family and friends and I and I again, this is because it's
00:13:12
so early, you don't know exactly what Ashley's friends and families were were saying, but they share a church
00:13:20
community. So it's just so many of these people going and I think people even noticed in like
00:13:26
some of the GoFundMe post or some of the other comments on like news clips where like it seemed like people
00:13:34
from Tipp City were like this had to be a break-in, possibly a targeted attack, but who
00:13:42
would want Ashley dead? And then people that were not from the Tipp community going, "Hey, wake up.
00:13:49
It's normally the husband." And I think one of the interesting things about Ashley and this this is not something I
00:13:57
think about in all these cases, and I wish I could remember I was watching um a news report about this and they had a
00:14:04
detective. I wish I could remember his name, but the detective was saying, "What's fascinating about this case is
00:14:11
one, the community, like you were saying, very low action as far as violent crimes, two per year.
00:14:21
And because of the lifestyle that she lived, she was a very low-risk lifestyle. So,
00:14:29
that would make investigators look inward to the family more than than maybe some other individual. And
00:14:37
obviously, she was murdered within inside her house. Yeah, you know, I love to recite statistics, specifically crime
00:14:47
statistics, and I get aggravated when they're used simply to sway one argument one way or the other. To sway
00:14:58
an argument one way or the other. Because I've seen many times where I think it's irresponsible the way that
00:15:04
crime statistics are reported. I I was very vocal about that with the recent Netflix JonBenét Ramsey documentary
00:15:14
where the police kept going on and on and on about how well the statistics would tell you that if a child dies in
00:15:22
the home, then the parents are responsible, that a family member is responsible. That's what the statistics
00:15:27
will tell you. But then they went out of their way to tell us over and over and over again that a kidnapping for ransom
00:15:34
attempt is we've never had it in the history of our city. So, it seemed counterintuitive to
00:15:41
cite both of those statistics. They essentially, in my brain, cross each other out. They cancel each other out.
00:15:48
And then same with the Nancy Guthrie story that unfortunately continues to be ongoing because they've not located this
00:15:55
poor woman or figured out who's responsible. You have investigators who are saying, "Well, it we don't believe
00:16:03
there's no reason to believe that it's a random kidnapping, that the person just
00:16:08
happened to take her because reviewing the local crime statistics say that nighttime burglaries in this area
00:16:17
almost never happen." Oh, okay, that's great. But also, guess what almost never happens? A high-profile case where a
00:16:24
person is abducted and ransom is requested. I mean, the most cities never experience that. And
00:16:32
our country at a whole at a at large rarely experiences that. So, it's it's completely bizarre to me to
00:16:42
to cite these to sway an argument one way or the other or try to bring people into your line of thinking as to what
00:16:51
theory it is that you are working, what angle it is you are working. When I hear
00:16:56
investigators say things like that, that tells me that they have a theory, they have an angle that they're working.
00:17:02
You've gone about it wrong, my friend. Let the evidence tell you what direction to go. Yeah, and I think it'd be very
00:17:09
difficult, like you said, little to no violent crimes in this community. But that doesn't mean that this department
00:17:17
isn't capable. But also they called in the big guns, right? They have the FBI involved pretty
00:17:23
quickly. Yeah, that that's again I'm this will be the last time I compare this to
00:17:31
the Nancy Guthrie case, but Hey, it's your show, man. You do what you want. Well, that's what I want. This
00:17:38
this will be the last time that I compare the two. [laughter] Uh thanks for bringing me down that road,
00:17:42
but the the thing here is when you look at these two investigations, try to line
00:17:48
them up side by side, what you're seeing is one handled very properly in my humble garage opinion and another one
00:17:56
just a complete butt fumble. Where here in Tipp City, God bless this police department, these
00:18:03
detectives, and specifically this police chief because what did he do right away?
00:18:08
What what did I say it was? The third time he addressed the media, he said we brought in
00:18:13
BCI. We brought in the FBI. We brought in the sheriff's department. We we share, you know, like those lines of
00:18:19
jurisdiction between the sheriff's department in the county and the city can be blurry, can be gray at times. And
00:18:26
we brought in the sheriff's department. We brought in the prosecuting office. We
00:18:30
brought in everybody we could. And so bringing in everybody you could, bringing in people with better resources
00:18:36
you you than you have is the absolute smartest thing to do. The sheriff's department
00:18:42
out in um Pima County did not do that. In fact, they they wanted to build a fence around their little county and
00:18:48
say, "No, we got this." I hate I hate >> News break, no, you don't. Um the >> Yeah. The other thing too is
00:18:56
in comparison, Pima County Sheriff look, he may be a great guy. Maybe he knows a
00:19:01
lot more. He I hope he knows a lot more about the case than I do and that he's holding stuff back, but for what my eyes
00:19:08
and ear balls tell me, he's not. He's talking. He's going out of his way to talk, and he's saying all the wrong
00:19:13
things. Where here we have a police chief who is saying very little, but the little that he is saying is the right
00:19:22
things. Again, garage opinion here. On at noon on Thursday, the 19th, February 19th, the Christian Life Center
00:19:32
announced a celebration of life for Ashley Flynn that would be held at 4:00 p.m. on Sunday, February 22nd at the
00:19:39
church. But then you have this breaking news here, 5:07 p.m. that same day, that same
00:19:47
date of Thursday, February 19th, Caleb Flynn is booked into the Miami County Jail on
00:19:54
preliminary charges of murder, felonious assault, and tampering with evidence. Shortly after this, we get the police
00:20:04
chief issued what would be the fifth and final press release. He did announce Caleb Flynn was arrested
00:20:12
on charges of murder, felonious assault, and tampering with evidence. And I believe it was at this same press
00:20:19
release, short and sweet, the way they should be, but I believe that it was at this time
00:20:26
that he said that any communications from law enforcement about this case going forward or any
00:20:33
press releases, any questions that the media may have would need to be going through the prosecutor's office.
00:20:42
Yeah, which I think is a smart move, and I think it was probably pretty devastating to this community and and
00:20:49
very small community, and you can say what you will about American Idol, but I played with like a guy that was on
00:20:59
American Idol. Lionel Richie. I wish. I would love to play in Lionel Richie's band. Forget about playing with
00:21:08
Lionel in Lionel Richie's band. Lionel Richie's band. Hey, Lionel. Yes. Let's bend an elbow
00:21:15
and tip a bunch of these back. That when you said you were dancing on the ceiling, I want to know what that feels
00:21:20
like, my friend. Take me there. Yeah, what drug do I have to take >> [laughter] >> Um
00:21:27
Oh, side note, uh cuz we have that Brian Shafer event coming up in Columbus, I mentioned that
00:21:33
we'd be giving out free hugs and free drugs, and I've been put on a Facebook restriction because of that comment.
00:21:41
Speaking of drugs that would make you dance on the ceiling. They were Halls cough drops that we intended to give
00:21:47
out, but apparently Facebook is against that. But I played with an artist that was on American Idol,
00:21:53
and it was a fascinating experience because one, I I just don't watch the show that often.
00:22:00
So, I had a friend of mine that called me and said, "Hey, there's this guy, his name's Murphy. He was on American Idol.
00:22:07
Uh I got some gigs and and would you want to be the music director to get this up and running?"
00:22:13
My mother just happened to be there when I took the call, so I asked her, "Hey, do you know this Murphy
00:22:20
guy from American Idol?" She's like, "Yeah, he was a big deal on that episode." So, sometimes there's big
00:22:26
deals of these contestants that don't win the show, but some of these guys that that
00:22:32
don't even get that far in the show end up having careers or making a living through music
00:22:39
with the help that they got by getting the exposure. So, I'm certain if he's a pastor, even if that's
00:22:46
just a part-time pastor at the church and part of the music group, that he is known by many,
00:22:54
and so I'm sure it was a very big shock to that community. Again, I don't think that the law enforcement took that
00:23:02
lightly. And so again, what evidence do they have? Do they have blood evidence? Do they they have ballistic evidence?
00:23:09
Do they have neighborhood footage that shows nobody going in and out of that neighborhood?
00:23:15
And that that doesn't mean there couldn't be somebody breaking in cuz you could park miles away and then decide to
00:23:22
walk through the fields or something. That's one of the things I'd be looking into. But they might have Caleb on
00:23:28
footage doing stuff in or around that house before that 911 call was made. And then also, if you
00:23:36
have this busted door, again, you might not find DNA evidence, you might not finger find fingerprints.
00:23:43
The assailant could be wearing gloves. But I think they had to have something big
00:23:51
enough because you have the community supportive of this individual. But what I'd really love to know is what
00:23:59
were the rumors? What were the dark rumors happening? [music] Cuz when there's a swell of support,
00:24:06
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>> All right, we are back. Cheers, mates. Talk hands in the air. Cheers to you, Colonel. Cheers to you, Captain. You're
00:31:02
going down a road that I like because I think that there could be a lot of avenues coming off of this road. Again,
00:31:12
it's it's now a collection more of what we don't know because I think the police department's done
00:31:19
their job of not letting us know too much. And so [clears throat] here, you know, with a statement in the 911 call
00:31:28
of her face is ghost white, again, we don't know what was said in his interview regarding
00:31:37
what the family members, he himself, and and the victim were doing that Sunday night, that Sunday evening, that Sunday
00:31:45
afternoon. Are they able to place the time time of death to be much earlier than the 911 call? That would be highly
00:31:54
highly suspicious. Right. So there's really a lot here. There's a lot beneath the surface that uh we will be learning.
00:32:03
I don't know how soon we will be learning that because we already mentioned that he was arrested and
00:32:09
charged, he being Caleb Flynn, the the husband and father of the two children and husband of the victim. Remember that
00:32:19
fifth and final press release by the police chief stating that he was arrested not only on charges of murder,
00:32:27
but also tampering with evidence. So he's essentially charged with shooting and killing his wife and staging the
00:32:33
crime scene to potentially mislead investigators. That's what they're charging him with. That's doesn't mean
00:32:39
that that's what he's guilty of. That's what the crime scene is telling the police. That's what hopefully there's
00:32:46
evidence to go along with that that is telling the police and that's what they based this arrest on. Caleb Flynn, 39
00:32:53
years old, he pled not guilty. This just on Friday the 19th, I'm sorry, Friday the 20th to charges of murder, assault,
00:33:00
and tampering with evidence. And in that, can we talk about the trains? He says, "I just want to take care of my
00:33:07
daughters. I'm not a risk." This is what he told Judge Samuel Huffman in a video
00:33:13
of his arraignment from jail. And then the judge set the bond at $2 million. Yeah, but if you haven't watched this,
00:33:22
I believe I put a clip on our social media, on Instagram or Facebook. I don't know if he can't understand him cuz some
00:33:29
of this stuff they're talking through like intercoms. So, it might be hard to understand, but
00:33:34
I I don't know if this guy is working with a a full box of crayons cuz he didn't seem
00:33:41
to understand what was happening. And then, I'm sorry, but I just think there's some It's It's
00:33:49
either acting to me or it's him feeling sorry for himself. But I don't think he fully understood
00:33:56
the question of of what he was being asked. And And then so then he goes, "Well, I'm just worried about taking
00:34:04
care of my kids and what's going to happen with my kids." It was so frustrating cuz it's like, do you think
00:34:09
they're just going to let you walk out? I mean, yes, this guy seems to be a a pillar of his community and he has no
00:34:17
criminal charges against him, but they must have enough on you that they feel confident in arresting you. I would also
00:34:26
wonder when they took him down to the station for questioning, and I I know if that Do you know if that happened at the
00:34:32
station or did they do the questioning in the house? Well, they I mean they interviewed him and walked through the
00:34:37
home with him at per the police report. But but at some point uh several hours after the call came in
00:34:46
they stated that he that he was asked if he would be willing to go to the police
00:34:50
department to be interviewed and he he consented to do that. So And do Do we know if he took a lie detector test? No,
00:34:58
we don't. It's I I'd love to know if he That could be that could be part of it, but
00:35:05
again, I I don't think I wouldn't guess that it is. Right. The thing here though, I mean he's he's simply saying
00:35:12
that he wants to take care of his kids and and I think he's using that as an attempt to to push back on the judge's
00:35:20
concerns that this guy's a flight risk. And well, how can I take care of my kids
00:35:24
if I if I take off and flee the area. You know, that's his kind of push back on well, I just
00:35:32
I'm I'm not a flight risk. I'm I just want to take care of my kids. >> Well, and if I was the judge, I'd also
00:35:37
be worried about suicide. Because if this guy's involved if this guy killed his wife
00:35:47
and was trying to stage it in a way that she was targeted or somebody broke into
00:35:53
their house what is he what is the motivation for this crime? And one of the rumors
00:36:01
that have come out there's two rumors that I've heard. One rumor is that he was having an affair
00:36:09
with another lady at the church. So his wife did some work at the church. But this other lady was involved and and the
00:36:18
the church aspect because I don't know I don't have a I'm involved in churches to
00:36:25
the point where I show up and play bass at a church function, but I don't know the inner workings. So,
00:36:31
when you say this lady [snorts] works at the church, like I know one of the choir members
00:36:38
cleans the church once a month as like a a way to volunteer at the church, but I
00:36:45
don't think she's on payroll. So, how is this other lady that he possibly was having an affair with? How is she
00:36:52
involved? They know her name. Her name has been out there. I'm not going to say her name
00:36:57
because I think it's just an allegation right now. I don't even know if there's any
00:37:02
proof. And the other rumor I heard was that there was no communication at least between Caleb and this other
00:37:12
female about Well, one, there just wasn't much communication beforehand through his cell phone, but again, you
00:37:21
don't know if they're if they're are having an affair, they they might not be communicating through text messages.
00:37:27
They might be communicating through a social media app or maybe through email. But so that could be a possible motive.
00:37:35
I mean, a lot of people have said online this has a weird feeling of Chris Watts.
00:37:43
Obviously different because Chris Watts' wife was pregnant at the time and he killed his children as well.
00:37:53
And so that it's a little different, but it has those feelings. >> The judge set the bond at $2 million and
00:38:02
his attorney and this might go a little bit out of order here at this point in our timeline, but
00:38:10
his attorney, Caleb Flynn's attorney, this man's name is Patrick Mulligan, said in a statement, "He and his client
00:38:19
were disappointed." I'll I'll read you a verbatim here. Quote, "Disappointed and
00:38:23
concerned about the short timeline and seeming rush to judgment in this case." End quote. The murder takes place on
00:38:32
Monday morning. Police arrested Flynn on Thursday. And then here another quote from the
00:38:38
attorney, "When the government runs out of leads or can't develop leads and looks at a surviving spouse in cases
00:38:45
such as these, the chance of a wrongful conviction increases." The Tipp City police chief, Greg Atkins,
00:38:53
defended the department's investigation saying in an email release that same day that they had not moved
00:39:03
fast. That the investigation that the detectives did not move fast. Well, again, this is weird because in some
00:39:11
investigations you don't get the evidence quickly. We don't know what they knew within 24 hours.
00:39:20
By the time you question him, you could go, "Well, statements from the 911 call to the statements he made to the police
00:39:26
are inaccurate. His gun is missing. What [clears throat] surveillance footage did we find? The autopsy, which
00:39:35
would have probably been done within what, 48 hours, is going to roughly give us the time of death and that might not
00:39:42
coincide with what the statements he's making. And then again, it's a small town. So, if there's
00:39:49
dirt to be found, they'll find it quickly. So, I I like those statements that he's
00:39:56
making. Hey, we didn't rush to judgment here. And >> [clears throat] >> and hopefully, if you get the big boys
00:40:02
involved with the sheriff and the FBI, that they come in and they let the evidence determine
00:40:10
that what they thought the outcome was and not the outcome determines what evidence we need to
00:40:16
collect. It was also stated at the arraignment that if he does post bond, he will be on house arrest with an
00:40:26
electronic home monitoring device and that he would have no they would have no interaction at all even one two degrees
00:40:34
of separation with the children, which is this makes all the sense in the world. It if he's innocent, this is a
00:40:40
very unfortunate for this man, but it makes all the sense in the world because those two children, elementary school
00:40:48
daughters, are very likely your only witnesses in this this case. Now, what they heard or didn't hear, we don't
00:40:55
know. What they saw, what they didn't see, we don't know. But again, what we do know is at the time of the 911 call,
00:41:01
per our suspect, the person charged, he stated that the children were in the home and we know per the police report
00:41:09
that they were removed from the home after the police were on the scene. So, you have four people in this house
00:41:15
before the 911 call, presumably during the time that the shots were fired, and you have one of them that's dead, one of
00:41:22
them that's arrested, and the two of them uh who are left to be potential witnesses
00:41:28
if and when this thing does go to trial. >> Yeah, and I don't know if law enforcement did this, but what I'd do is
00:41:35
I would want a toxicology report on the children. Right? Were were they did they get any sleep aid? Yeah, well,
00:41:45
and we're going to get into some thoughts on how if if he is responsible then how much of this was planned versus
00:41:55
spontaneous. On Friday, February 20th, the Christian Life Center announced that the
00:42:02
celebration of life for Ashley Flynn that was to be on Sunday afternoon was canceled at the family's request.
00:42:10
Instead, the funeral service would be private and by invitation only. The the family of Ashley Flynn
00:42:17
released a statement saying, "Our hearts are shattered. Ashley brought endless light to our world, and we are trying to
00:42:24
navigate this immense loss. Our family believes this arrest was made carefully and not without serious consideration."
00:42:34
After speaking with both local police and federal authorities, we trust the proper steps were taken and the process
00:42:43
is being handled appropriately. We kindly ask for privacy as we work through this complex situation. We are
00:42:51
clinging to our faith just as Ashley did each and every day. Do you think that there's
00:42:58
a possibility that law enforcement gave them some more breadcrumbs? I would think that they probably did without
00:43:07
being specific. Right. >> And that there would be ways to handle that without being specific. I also
00:43:14
would be shocked if the children, whether they know something of if they knowingly know that they know
00:43:21
something of importance, sorry, that's a jumbled-up sentence there, but it made sense as as I was saying it.
00:43:27
>> No, but what I mean is they they could have very important information to the
00:43:31
investigation that they don't understand is important. And it's because of something that was gleaned from the
00:43:40
children, one or both, that have helped to clear things up for law enforcement. And keep in mind, they've been in the
00:43:49
custody and care of family members. That information may have been passed along to those family members during that time
00:43:55
of custody and care as well. That's a great point. An original Originally, a preliminary hearing was scheduled for
00:44:03
Caleb Flynn in Miami County Municipal Court for 1:00 p.m. Thursday, February 26th. The hearing was to determine
00:44:12
whether there is enough evidence or probable cause for the case to proceed to a trial. If so, it would be forwarded
00:44:20
to a county grand jury for review. This preliminary hearing was rescheduled for 1:00 p.m. Thursday,
00:44:29
March 26th. And part of that is we do know that Caleb Flynn has waived his right to a
00:44:35
speedy trial. So, what exactly led to Caleb's arrest and then being charged with the murder
00:44:42
of his wife? We can only come to our own conclusions because we've not been told.
00:44:49
And as far as I know, we went through a police report, but I have not seen any arrest affidavit publicly released to
00:44:58
the public, which would contain specific information as to why they chose to arrest him. Because look, they could
00:45:06
have held him for a period of time, but they would have been required to let him
00:45:10
go at some point. They At some point you have to either charge or release. And we
00:45:15
do know that they charged. So, some things to consider is obviously his presence in the home. One thing that a
00:45:21
lot of people are calling into question, I think they should, it's the initial location of the children.
00:45:27
And you're going to base this off of their statements. You're going to base this off of the things he was saying on
00:45:32
the 911 call. What he told the investigators as they were walking through the home together and then later
00:45:38
what he said in his interview at the police station. I'm guessing that some of the specifics there changed at some
00:45:47
point. That That he may have gotten frazzled and was unable to keep his story straight if he is in fact guilty.
00:45:55
But I think they had to take into account, like you said, if we we can hold him for time period,
00:46:04
but he if he's not being charged with anything, then he has the right to be around his
00:46:09
children, and could that possibly bring another tragedy to this whole thing? Yeah, and you don't want to
00:46:17
charge him on some flimflam charges. You want you don't want it to be flimsy. So,
00:46:22
it it doesn't matter if you want to keep him from the children or not. The way that I see everything being conducted,
00:46:27
it seems very thorough and on the up and up. And we talk about this so many times
00:46:32
in the garage where a detective, their job, whether they recognize it or not, is to assure that their findings are
00:46:40
upheld in court with a conviction, not just an arrest. And the the other part of our system, too, is that it is the
00:46:48
judge's job to ensure that whatever the verdict is is later upheld, right? That it's not a mistrial, that it's not um
00:47:00
something goes wrong during the course of the trial. And so, you're not going to push the envelope, and nor should
00:47:07
you, if he waves his right to a speedy trial, you don't want to just grab him by the ear and go, "Well, tough [ __ ]
00:47:13
mister. We're going in for the arraignment today, uh preliminary hearing today." You you you don't want
00:47:18
to do that. I mean, >> Right. you because then it will be he was treated unfairly. You as the judge, you
00:47:26
want to make sure that he that the the defendant is of sound mind, that they understand the charges, that
00:47:32
they understand their plea, and that they have effective counsel, and that they have a fair trial. And so, this is
00:47:39
all just this is all just part of that. Now, part of what could have led to his arrest, too, is how much evidence were
00:47:47
they seeing that is telling them that, "Hey, this scene looks staged." And not just looks staged, but we can prove that
00:47:54
it was in fact staged. And some folks can say, "Look, this was a a quick arrest." But I mean, if if the killer
00:48:03
and the victim are all in the same home at the same time, your crime scene you have one crime scene and it's not that
00:48:11
big. Um it's not that it's a it's a single-family home on a single-family lot. I mean, there there's it
00:48:18
it's not a huge crime scene. It it It wouldn't take um you know, and they were there for 3 days
00:48:24
that we know of. Yeah, that's the thing is we can say it seems fast, but you got
00:48:30
one crime scene and you're collecting a lot of evidence really quickly, but not because you don't have to look you don't
00:48:37
have to go look for the evidence, right? You're you're not looking for the victim. We
00:48:42
have the victim. You're not looking you're not having to investigate a dump site. We have the victim in her bed.
00:48:49
And so, like you said, there could just be a ton of stuff piling up here. I'll never understand why if if the
00:48:57
motivation is to get rid of her so he can start a new life, I just don't want I don't understand why
00:49:06
you wouldn't just divorce the person. But I think sometimes these individuals build up such a
00:49:13
false outer shell of who they [clears throat] are. Oh, he's this part-time pastor and he's uh this he
00:49:21
praise and worship leader and he's the pillar [clears throat] of the community. And I think sometimes that weighs on
00:49:28
those individuals and it just can't be as simple as And then also the relationship you have
00:49:36
with, you know, your spouse. I mean, obviously that's his spouse at the time, but her family and other people in the
00:49:43
community. But it's crazy to me that these people instead of just going, "Hey, you know
00:49:48
what? I I'll get a divorce. I won't see my kids all the time, but I think they're afraid of losing that
00:49:56
facade of I'm a shining [clears throat] light in this community. And I think that's part of the
00:50:05
motivation to kill an individual as opposed to just divorce the individual. If I'm making
00:50:12
any sense at all. >> that you don't understand that because if you did, I wouldn't be sitting in the
00:50:16
garage with you here today. I mean, there's it's psycho for they call it psycho for a reason. And if he is in
00:50:23
fact guilty of shooting and killing his wife, look, and then then as far as whatever with society or communities go,
00:50:31
glass houses people. Keep in mind glass houses and I cannot stand the holier-than-thou persons out there. If
00:50:38
if she's not the right wife for him, we're human beings. If she's a terrible mother, we're human beings. We're if
00:50:44
he's [clears throat] not good at being a husband, we're human beings. An error only
00:50:48
becomes a mistake once we refuse to correct it. And as far as we're told, we only live once. So, it you know, I don't
00:50:56
want to go too far down that road. I want to go through some of the specifics of this case before we go down a road
00:51:01
that I think that the listeners will be very happy that that we do go down here.
00:51:06
What evidence led investigators to believe Caleb Flynn staged the crime scene? And as as we know, investigators
00:51:12
reported several pieces of physical evidence and inconsistencies that led them to believe Caleb Flynn
00:51:18
staged the crime scene to look like a home invasion as he said on the 911 call. Of course, we have the obstruction
00:51:26
of the alleged entry point. Flynn claimed that the the side door to the garage was left open by an intruder.
00:51:33
However, police find a large refrigerator positioned in front of that door which would have made it extremely
00:51:39
difficult for an intruder to push it open from the outside. The handgun's location,
00:51:46
his handgun specifically, police observed that the center console of Flynn's 2024 Ford truck in the garage
00:51:54
was open. This mass matched the exact location where Flynn reportedly told police he kept his handgun. Again, a lot
00:52:03
of people pointing out to pointing out the inconsistent 911 statements during that lengthy 911 call where some folks
00:52:10
are saying that he would state something then later, quote, corrected himself. A
00:52:15
lot of that, I think, pertains to where the kids are, what the kids were doing during that call. I didn't hear to me, I
00:52:22
while I see this being reported a lot and talked about a lot, I that didn't jump off the page or or kick me in the
00:52:28
ear balls when I heard it. I trust the community and the people looking at this. If they think it's suspicious,
00:52:34
it's well it's worth looking at. The physical evidence in the bedroom. Two gun shell casings were found on the
00:52:40
floor near the foot of the bed where Ashley Flynn was shot. And then this tidbit here, Captain, suspicious social
00:52:47
media activity. Neighbors and friends found it unsettling that Ashley's Facebook profile picture was changed
00:52:54
from a photo of her and her daughters to one of her and Caleb just two nights before she was killed. A change
00:53:03
described as uncharacteristic for her. So, let's go down this road. Yeah. I I want to do a little crime
00:53:12
study, specific crime study, a little crime scene analysis investigating and classifying this violent crime. So,
00:53:19
let's look at a study on domestic homicide. If in fact that is what this is, we know
00:53:26
based on the charges that the Tipp City police and the prosecutor there believes
00:53:31
that is what happened. So, we have domestic homicide. Let's take a look at key types, indicators, and investigative
00:53:39
considerations. Domestic domestic homicide involves one household or family member killing
00:53:45
another including common law partners. The crime classification manual from 1995 from the FBI outlines two subtypes
00:53:55
of this crime. One, spontaneous domestic homicide. This is unplanned, triggered by recent or cumulative
00:54:04
stress. No intentional staging occurs typically in this type of crime. Body movement or positioning may happen for
00:54:13
the offender's benefit but not to mislead law enforcement. And then the other subtype here captain would be
00:54:20
staged domestic homicide. So the difference being the big differences being planned, often designed to appear
00:54:28
accidental. This would be suicidal, natural causes, or linked to a secondary crime or crimes such as robbery or rape.
00:54:40
These staged domestic homicide crime scenes are more organized. Weapons, fingerprints, and evidence are commonly
00:54:48
removed from the crime scene. The body is usually not concealed and may be found in the home or elsewhere.
00:54:56
Media-driven occult/satanic staging may appear in these crimes but we got to keep in mind
00:55:04
part of that statement in the classification manual I believe comes from the time period.
00:55:11
This was published in 1995. So occult and satanic staging that that would make sense with a lot of the different crimes
00:55:19
and things that were going on or speculated about in the media at the time period.
00:55:24
We also saw that shortly after the Manson family murders too where folks would annihilate their family or kill a
00:55:32
spouse and then try to make it appear that a crazy batch of hit hippies broke in and painted the walls with blood.
00:55:39
Obviously, victimology would be familial in both of these types. Investigative indicators for spontaneous cases. Crime
00:55:48
likely occurs in the victim's residence, check. In some cases, there may be documented
00:55:53
history of domestic violence or conflict. We don't We don't know anything about that. The So, domestic
00:55:58
violence, that's obvious, but conflict could be things like financial conflict, employment, alcohol or drug use. Yeah,
00:56:05
and we don't have or at least I haven't seen any local rumors that they had marital problems.
00:56:13
Everybody said they seemed to be the the perfect couple. And so, yes, there are these rumors or
00:56:21
rumblings about a possible affair with somebody at the church. But, I think that's just coming from a
00:56:27
very small group, so again, we have We'd have to see proof of that first. So, there's no knowledge or
00:56:35
at least nothing coming out that Ashley knew of a fair that Caleb was having. And that's
00:56:42
a natural leap for the community or members of the community to make when one spouse is charged with the homicide
00:56:50
of another spouse. It's just regardless of man kills woman, woman kills man, that's husband kills wife, wife kills
00:56:56
husband, that's something that's going to be thought of and looked at as well. In the spontaneous type,
00:57:06
the offender may delay reporting to change clothes or craft an alibi, and a third party often discovers the victim's
00:57:16
body. The offender may show personalized aggression and a marked attitude change
00:57:21
after the trigger. Now, investigative indicators for staged cases. So, keep in mind, some of these
00:57:29
are going to blend together. Just by the nature of the victimology, the nature of the offender, they often
00:57:36
live together, nature of the offense, the crime scene, some of this is going to blend together. But, here the subtle
00:57:42
differences and then apply them to what little we know about this case. So, this is indicators for staged cases.
00:57:52
Controlled, organized crime scene, removal of evidence, potential accident, suicide, overdose.
00:58:02
So, to stage it, you're going to want to make it look like something else took place to mislead investigators. You're
00:58:11
You can't hide the fact that the person is dead. You're just trying to set it up to make
00:58:15
it look like they died by some other manner than you killing them. So, potential You're going to set it up to
00:58:21
make it look like a potential accident, potential suicide, potential overdose. Warning insulin can often be a great way
00:58:28
to confuse medical examiners as it will mask uh what took place and and may mimic natural causes.
00:58:37
But, here we have something different. Some of the staging can be to include, and often time does, make it look like
00:58:46
somebody else did the crime. That there was another crime in progress when it took place. Again, we already
00:58:53
mentioned robbery and rape. In a staged domestic rape/murder, victims are rarely
00:58:59
left fully nude. Typically, they're partially clothed. If the supposed primary threat, often
00:59:06
the male household member, has no or minor injuries, here we have no injuries while others are killed in the
00:59:14
home, staging should be suspected. This is the FBI saying this. They're not saying that it it that it is
00:59:22
the situation, that it is the result of a staged domestic homicide. They're saying if you go into a scene, any
00:59:29
scene, and the primary threat has no or minor injuries, and others are killed, staging should be
00:59:39
suspected. Pre-offense behavior may improve conspicuously. Okay? Friends/family may report the victim voiced fear or
00:59:51
foreboding. Okay? And here we don't seem to have that. And that goes along with we don't seem to have a history of
00:59:58
domestic violence in this relationship. Medical and psychiatric history of the victim is relevant, especially if
01:00:05
suicide or natural causes are claimed. Search warrant suggestions. That's interesting because it made me think of
01:00:12
the Ellen Greenberg case, where what what the FBI is stating here is just because you have some kind of
01:00:20
psychiatric history, that doesn't mean particularly that the dead person was suicidal.
01:00:29
It could also mean that they're having psychiatric problems, or they have a psychiatric history, because they're
01:00:34
experiencing something from someone else. That maybe they are in fear because of
01:00:40
their spouse, or they're being bullied by their spouse. Right. There's some kind of mental abuse.
01:00:47
So, search warrant suggestions, I think maybe the one thing that could have been
01:00:52
done a little if I could tweak one thing of what I've seen about this investigation and the way that it was
01:00:58
handled, is we've talked about this in some other cases. I think it was the Aaron Spencer case in particular. Might
01:01:06
have been the Spencer Teppe, Monica Teppe murders case as well, where we saw that police
01:01:12
and detectives could go into a crime scene, but as soon as they recognized that we're talking about a murder
01:01:18
situation, they they waited to go in with the fine-tooth comb until they had that search warrant obtained
01:01:26
from a judge. So, search warrant suggestions for this type of investigation, if you're looking at
01:01:31
spontaneous domestic homicide, it says obtain financial and medical records to assess stressors and corroborate
01:01:39
spontaneity. If you think that somebody would freak out and murder their spouse,
01:01:43
you might be able to find some type of paper trail in it and medical records or financial records. Staged, seek evidence
01:01:51
of motive and planning including telephone and personal records, travel logs, motel bookings, and gasoline
01:01:58
receipts. One thing that they said about stage two, that the FBI said, and this circles back to something that we
01:02:07
touched on just very, very briefly. They say that you if most of the time when it's a staged homicide, there's a
01:02:16
good amount of planning that's going to go into that. And one could be planning this for days, weeks, months in advance.
01:02:23
[snorts] One thing they point to is a change in the level of affection and appreciation
01:02:31
that a spouse shows for the later-to-be-dead victim. Is there an uptick? Like, oh, he was
01:02:37
holding her hand all the time. He was putting his arm around her all the time. This we just noticed this two days,
01:02:43
three days before. He never sort of behaved that way in the room with her before. He was going out of his way to
01:02:49
say that he loved her buying her gifts and putting on that facade oh, I'm the perfect husband, we have the
01:02:56
perfect marriage. And that is interesting to me that they note that in the crime classification manual
01:03:06
because we have neighbors and friends that say they found it a little strange that
01:03:11
Ashley's Facebook profile picture was changed from a photo of her and her daughters to one of her and Caleb just
01:03:18
two nights before she was killed. Yeah, I think it's important to jump on these cases
01:03:25
and [clears throat] look into these cases as they're unfolding. And [clears throat]
01:03:31
and it's kind of what we all do, right? You go, "Hey, did you hear about that crime that happened in Indiana? Did you
01:03:37
hear about that crime that happened in California?" Sometimes we get bombarded, especially when it's in our neck of the
01:03:44
woods. Hey, And so, but there is a frustration because we've covered so many cases that
01:03:50
we do know that there's there's going to be evidence and information and [clears throat] answers.
01:03:58
Maybe not all the answers, but more answers as this case develops. But it's a it's a fascinating case.
01:04:07
And I'm like you, I'm fascinated with the investigation. So, I'm very curious what they found and what evidence they
01:04:14
have. Yeah, some so well, we should know that within about a month or at least part of that because it it will be in
01:04:21
reports. So, we'll keep following this one and a lot of the updates, as you guys know, become off-the-record
01:04:29
episodes. As much as I'm interested in the investigation, it's it's the why in some of these cases. Like, this just
01:04:37
doesn't make a lot of sense. If he was responsible for this, this seems like there was better ways out of whatever
01:04:45
situation he thought he was [music] in. >> [music] >> Want to thank everybody for joining us
01:05:02
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