00:00:00
Adobe Acrobat, [music] your team's home base, collaborate within a shared PDF space. You've got
00:00:05
your docs, your plans, your specs, and then invite the crew to build what's next. [music]
00:00:09
>> of the teamwork. They think that this design But when somebody wonders, [singing]
00:00:17
>> [music] >> AI helps you finish the rest. Bolts are tight, now your plan's refined. Run a
00:00:22
smoother business [music] when you're all aligned. Do that with Acrobat. Learn more at
00:00:28
adobe.com/dothatwithacrobat. Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile. I don't know if you knew this, but anyone
00:00:33
can get the same premium wireless for $15 a month plan that I've been enjoying. [music] It's not just for
00:00:39
celebrities. So, do like I did and have one of your assistant's assistants switch you to Mint Mobile today. I'm
00:00:45
told it's super easy to do at mintmobile.com/switch. [music] Upfront payment of $45 for 3-month plan,
00:00:51
equivalent to $15 per month required. Intro rate first 3 months only, then full price plan options available. Taxes
00:00:57
and fees extra. See full terms at mintmobile.com. >> [music] [music] [music] [music]
00:01:52
[music] [music] [music] [music] [music] >> This is our missing paper boy series.
00:02:29
Chapter three. The boy scout killer. A knot tied tight with practiced hand in a quiet corner of the land.
00:02:40
A leader's badge upon his chest hiding monsters at unrest. He taught the arrow of light and truth
00:02:49
and smiled upon the face of youth. By day he served country and town while planning how to break them down.
00:02:58
With cold patience, he would watch and wait. Then with his knife he sealed their fate.
00:03:05
A mask of normalcy he tried to hide with nothing but darkness left inside. The biter, the cutter
00:03:14
taking breath. His life a shadow play with death until the day the killing stopped.
00:03:22
The mask of virtue finally dropped. The scout leader, young and small was the killer in the dark behind the
00:03:31
wall. This is True Crime Garage. >> [music] [music] [music] [music] [music] >> Returning to Omaha with one case still
00:04:12
open the murder of Danny Joe Eberle was still unsolved. Now, as we talked about last
00:04:19
week, several seasoned FBI agents were already assisting the Sarpy County Sheriff's Office full-time
00:04:28
working the Danny Joe Eberle case. Then, on December 2nd, 1983, the phone calls began.
00:04:37
And a second family's world started to collapse. This was a cold but sunny Nebraska morning that started off with a
00:04:44
walk to school. On this day, 12-year-old Christopher Walden a sixth grader, woke up and did what
00:04:52
kids do. He pushed for a little more freedom. An opportunity to show that he was maturing.
00:04:59
Christopher, or Chris to everyone who loved him, usually went to school with his mother, Sue. But on this morning, he
00:05:07
talked her into letting him walk alone. It was a small victory. Sue and her husband, Steve Walden, a
00:05:15
lieutenant colonel stationed at Offutt Air Force Base located adjacent to Bellevue
00:05:22
in Sarpy County they were protective of their boy. Protective to the point of vigilance. Chris was their only child
00:05:31
and they doted on him. In fact, they rarely let him out of their sight. So, when Sue agreed to let him walk the
00:05:39
roughly 1-mile distance to Pawnee Elementary School it probably felt to Chris like the world had opened up a little.
00:05:49
To Sue, it likely felt like a cautious step toward independence for her son. And she would be watching closely from
00:05:59
the window. In fact, she watched him head out into the crisp morning air, but by the end of the day that 1-mile walk
00:06:06
would become the center of a frantic search for the little boy. As the afternoon wore on Sue waited for
00:06:14
Chris to come home. Around 4:00 p.m., she started noticing something that didn't fit.
00:06:21
Other children, Chris's classmates in fact walked past the house. She wondered where her boy was. In fact,
00:06:30
she goes outside and she approaches the school children and ask one of them, "Have you seen Chris?" And then ask
00:06:38
another, "Have you seen Chris?" And everyone she talked to, all the kids she talked to, said they hadn't seen him at
00:06:43
all. In fact, what's even more scary here they hadn't even seen the boy at school that day. So, Sue called the
00:06:51
school and a secretary confirmed what no parent is prepared to hear. Chris was listed as
00:06:59
absent on that day. The boy who was late to make it home from school now becomes
00:07:05
the boy who never made it to school. Confusion quickly turned into panic. Sue contacted Steve at work.
00:07:15
Together they made the decision no parent wants to make, but every parent must make quickly. They called the Sarpy
00:07:21
County Sheriff's Office and reported their son missing. The community was already on edge because Danny Joe
00:07:28
Eberle's murder was still unsolved. That context mattered. It sharpened everyone's instincts and
00:07:35
collapsed the time between missing and mobilized. We are going to see a much different
00:07:44
effort made in this case than what we had seen in the Johnny Gosch case. And of course, that's going to be for
00:07:53
good reason. Here in Omaha, they already had a kid that was missing. He was missing for a few days and then
00:08:01
he was found murdered. And that boy's killer has yet to be located, yet to be identified, and now we have another kid
00:08:09
same age missing from an area very close to where the other boy, the previous boy, Danny
00:08:16
Joe Eberle went missing before he was found murdered near the river. Well, and this
00:08:22
is 1983. This is a time period where you go to work after dinner things start shutting down
00:08:32
in the family. Mhm. Who are these victims? They're kids. The first one, in the Danny case,
00:08:39
you go, maybe it's just a one-off. But now with Christopher, the the threat level goes to midnight, right?
00:08:46
>> Yeah, the Sheriff's Office alerted their law enforcement partners. This of course
00:08:50
including the FBI. Now, remember we already have agents working the Eberle homicide case. They're going to quickly
00:08:58
pivot and now also get focused in on the Christopher Walden disappearance. The entire Omaha FBI office was called into
00:09:10
action to work alongside other agencies. Right. >> All with the same urgent hope, find
00:09:16
Chris alive and bring him home. From retired FBI agent Harry Trimbach's book this is titled My Life as an FBI special
00:09:26
agent from his dark places series. This is book two, Murders, Motors, The Mob, and
00:09:34
The Money. He says, "How we work a missing child case it's working three paths all at once."
00:09:43
Now, keep in mind, we've reviewed unfortunately a lot of missing child cases here. Right.
00:09:48
>> And they've all been investigated to slightly different degrees and strategies. But what he's
00:09:57
saying in his book is that when given the opportunity and the right amount of resources and people
00:10:05
power, then this is the way that you should work a missing child case. He says it's
00:10:11
working three pathways all at once. He says, "In any child disappearance, law enforcement can't afford tunnel
00:10:19
vision. From the first moments, investigators have to move in three directions all at the same time."
00:10:28
So, three points of focus that could tear you in three different directions. Be prepared to act on all of this. He
00:10:35
says, "One is the inner circle. Identify and scrutinize those closest to the child,
00:10:42
who had access, who last saw the child, who might know what really happened." Two,
00:10:50
work the runaway scenario. Determine whether the child left voluntarily due to trouble at home, at school, or in
00:10:57
other relationships. Three, work the abduction angle. So, abduction by a neighbor or stranger,
00:11:06
consider the possibility that the child was taken, most commonly for sexual reasons, and
00:11:12
more rarely for ransom. At the start, he says, "These possibilities are treated as equal concerns. That means
00:11:19
overwhelming resources must hit the scene immediately because speed is everything." And we all know the brutal
00:11:26
statistics that have been bandied about on this show over the years. The first 3
00:11:31
hours of a child abduction investigation are critical. When a child is abducted by somebody outside the circle of family
00:11:39
and friends, the child is killed within the first 3 hours in 75% of such cases. Well, I think these are difficult, too,
00:11:48
for law enforcement cuz you need to work these cases as separate. You don't have to
00:11:55
if you solve one, that doesn't necessarily mean you're going to solve the other, but there's so so many
00:11:59
similarities. I mean, they're This is these events are happening 3 months apart. Mhm.
00:12:07
It's same hour of the day, and similar victims. Young boys, I mean, they're what?
00:12:16
A year apart. Danny's 13, Chris is 12. So, I think there would be especially in law enforcement, to go,
00:12:26
"Do we work these separate? Do we work these collectively?" Well, and one advantage you're going to, and I hate to
00:12:32
use that term here in such a case that's shocking and heartbreaking all at the same time.
00:12:39
But, one advantage that you might have is, as we said, there were seasoned FBI agents that were working the Danny Joe
00:12:47
Eberle case. You've already pointed out how similar they are. And we'll we'll get into the nature of each in
00:12:53
comparison of the two. But, the one advantage you have is if they are connected, you have already worked
00:13:01
portions of the Eberle case that might speed your investigation in similar directions or different based
00:13:11
off of what you learned or mistakes that you know you made during the course of that investigation. The other thing,
00:13:18
too, is when you bring in an agent, so you're bringing in a bunch of agents from the Omaha office here.
00:13:26
And as said, what Agent Trimbath says in his book is that everybody was brought in to search for the boy
00:13:35
because the biggest fear immediately was, "Oh my god, we're going to end up with the If we don't find this kid,
00:13:41
we're going to end up with the same result in the last case." And in the last case, it's not it Of course, it's
00:13:46
the murdered kid, but it's beyond that. It's a We have a murdered child, and we don't know who
00:13:52
the offender is. Keep in mind, Ressler did say with with his Mindhunter, Robert Ressler said when he reviewed the Eberle
00:14:01
case, he really thought that the killer would strike again. And you have to be wondering,
00:14:08
everybody's It's not lost on anybody brought into this case or anybody already working the Eberle case, this is
00:14:14
probably connected. And my god, Robert Ressler might be right. Agent Trimbath worked the Christopher
00:14:21
Walden case, but he he wasn't working on the Danny Joe Eberle case. We mentioned Peter Klismet from the FBI
00:14:30
who was working it as well as Robert Ressler. Harry Trimbath is brought in for a different purpose on this case,
00:14:37
but what's interesting is you have this this convergence that all of these almost better known FBI agents who had
00:14:46
all ended up working on the same case or same series of of cases right here in Omaha, Nebraska.
00:14:55
Now, Agent Trimbath working, you know, now involved with the Christopher Walden case, he's called in immediately.
00:15:02
He's working with that statistic, with that number. Those statistics sitting in the back of
00:15:09
his mind. And he said it was like a weight that you couldn't put down even while you're forcing yourself to operate
00:15:16
with discipline and hope. Hope that you're going to find this boy, Christopher Walden, alive and well and
00:15:23
bring him home. All right. Let's go back to that three-pronged investigation. He says, "The hardest questions first.
00:15:32
We have to interview the parents." In this case, it's Sue and Steve. And he says, "The first prong is ugly, but
00:15:38
necessary. Sometimes parents or caregivers kill their own children and report them missing to conceal
00:15:45
involvement." Right. >> Because of that reality, Sue and Steve were interviewed immediately
00:15:52
and separately. It was almost an an unbearable thing to have to ask parents who are terrified and grieving and still
00:16:01
hoping. He said Sue and Steve understood the logic, and they cooperated fully and
00:16:07
immediately. Investigators walked away with no doubt that Sue and Steve were not suspects.
00:16:13
They were exactly what they appeared to be, Captain. Two parents living a nightmare. And with this crime happening
00:16:19
within 3 months of Danny's case, law enforcement has to wonder, is there possibly a situation
00:16:27
that a parent or a loved one or somebody close to inner circle wants Christopher Walden gone,
00:16:36
and basically uses Danny's case as a blueprint to get rid of him, to make it look like it could be connected to that
00:16:43
case, if that makes any sense. Took advantage of the Nebraska nightmare. Right. So, second prong, did Chris run
00:16:51
away? Well, this fell apart pretty quickly as well. Interviews with Sue and Steve, relatives, neighbors,
00:16:58
friends, and Chris's teachers all painted a consistent picture of the youngster. Chris was happy, he was loved
00:17:07
and well cared for, he had friends, his school experience was very positive. So, that left the third prong rising to
00:17:16
the surface as the most likely, that Chris had been abducted on his way to school,
00:17:21
with immediate action being canvassing the neighborhood, obviously, and preparing for a ransom,
00:17:27
if that were to be the case. So, law enforcement pulled in every available resource
00:17:34
for an immediate neighborhood canvas, door-to-door, going along the path that Chris most likely took
00:17:42
on that December morning on his way to school. At the same time, FBI Agent Trimbath was
00:17:48
asked to respond directly to the Walden family residence and set up for the possibility,
00:17:56
you know, however rare, that Chris had been taken for the purpose of ransom. An FBI electronics
00:18:02
technician set up a tape recorder to capture incoming calls in case a ransom demand came in. Right. The telephone
00:18:10
company was alerted so that any call to the residence could be captured and the number identified.
00:18:18
So, the assignment is clear. It's simple, and it's clear. If a call comes in, activate the recorder.
00:18:25
Sue or Steve Walden, the parents, would answer the phone at all times, one of them, and keep the
00:18:33
caller talking while also writing down anything important. If the call turned out to be unrelated,
00:18:40
right? If it were just a family member or a neighbor, somebody calling offering support, then Sue or Steve would signal
00:18:49
the officer, the agent, and the recorder would be shut off. If a ransom call came in,
00:18:56
the agent was to notify the assistant special agent in charge immediately so the FBI could respond accordingly, quick
00:19:04
and accordingly. A lot of effort went into trying to locate Christopher Paul Walden,
00:19:12
the son of an officer at Offutt Air Force Base. We do have a witness, a potential witness. Can't I get a witness
00:19:19
here, Captain? A woman came forward after seeing the media coverage on television. So, she says that on the
00:19:28
morning that Chris disappeared, December 2nd, 1983, she had been driving through the area
00:19:35
where he would have walked to school. And she says that she noticed a young man approach a young boy. She says she
00:19:43
didn't know who the young man was, but the young boy matched Chris's description. So, this is
00:19:49
a person that doesn't know Christopher Walden, but based off of what she's seeing on the news, she's saying,
00:19:55
"I think I saw that kid talking to somebody." Her description of this is that the two spoke briefly, then the
00:20:02
young man, the older of the two, put his arm around the younger boy, and they both walked together toward a
00:20:10
tan sedan. So, toward a tan vehicle, car. >> Damn the tan sedan. >> Damn, we were on this.
00:20:17
At the time, of course, the witness said she didn't think anything of it. You know, it's just
00:20:22
normal everyday life. And from her perspective, though, this to me, I I want Give me Don't just tell me what you
00:20:30
saw. When When taking a witness report, always always always I don't know if this was asked of her or if she just
00:20:38
offered it up. Always ask them, "Well, what did you think in the moment?" You know, when you witnessed that, what did
00:20:45
you think you were witnessing? We don't know if it was an abduction. We don't even know if it was our missing boy.
00:20:51
But, if it is, I want to know what this woman thought she was seeing in the moment. So, she says from her
00:20:57
perspective, it just looked like an older brother helping a younger brother. Like older brother talking to younger
00:21:04
brother, puts his arm around him, and they walk away together, and she happens to see
00:21:09
this tan sedan. Now, again, the tan sedan is part of this description, but they were just simply walking toward it.
00:21:20
So, she doesn't know if they got into this vehicle or or not. But, thankfully, she saw a vehicle
00:21:27
with this uh There's a vehicle that is part of this description. Yeah, like we know law
00:21:32
enforcement, it's easier to find a car than it is to find a individual. But, at least we have two identifiers.
00:21:39
She kind of gets a a look at this individual with his arm around this boy, and then
00:21:46
she gets a look at his car. So, at least that's something. Yeah. And the thing here, too, is
00:21:53
obviously later, this is going to mean something to her. The you know, it's going to click into
00:21:59
place. And thankfully, it did and sends her in the direction of police to give this
00:22:05
information. So, the the sheriff wanted to and planned to hypnotize the witness in hopes of improving recall,
00:22:14
in hopes of getting more detail about the what she saw, the suspect, potential suspect, the potential suspect vehicle.
00:22:22
Right. Maybe saw a license plate. With the idea of maybe moving toward releasing a composite sketch of this
00:22:30
individual. So, the hit the witness was hypnotized. Yeah. And a composite was produced from this.
00:22:39
The description she provided was I mean, some might describe this as specific, some might describe it as
00:22:46
vague. I think it's somewhere in between. Have you ever been hypnotized? Uh once or twice once or twice, but I don't
00:22:55
know if it took. Yeah, the only time I was hyp- hypnotized, I turned into a half Freddy Mercury and half chicken.
00:23:03
So, I don't think I was good with law enforcement here. Yeah, truth be told, it was 20 years
00:23:08
ago, and I never woke up. Yeah, still hypnotized. Yeah, the the the description here, Captain, is white
00:23:15
male, 18 to 25 years old, approximately 5 ft 8 in tall, around 160 lb, dark hair, brown
00:23:24
eyes, wearing a dark toboggan hat. Yeah, but this this type uh predator scares me
00:23:32
in the sense of we have two victims roughly the same age. I mean, there's similar looks to
00:23:39
these victims as well. But, is this the victim type, or is it "Hey, I'm fine with any victim under the
00:23:49
age of 15." So, it's putting more of society at risk. But, also, let's say your victim type was a 6-year-old. Well,
00:23:59
they're they're not going to be able to fight back as much. The There's There's not I I hate to say it this way,
00:24:06
but it's not as much of a risk. And But, in these cases, you got a 12-year-old and 13-year-old boy. You don't think
00:24:15
they're going to put up a fight? Rules of the game or the strategy has to be completely different.
00:24:22
>> There are a lot of people that will argue me to death, and who knows? They might be right. We're still trying to
00:24:28
figure this out. But, I believe in what my studies, reading, following these cases
00:24:35
have told me over the years or taught me is that with serial offenders, when you
00:24:42
know, we talk about so many serial killers that are prowling, that are looking for adult female victims. Right.
00:24:51
>> And I always state in those cases, it appears to me more so with those types of
00:24:58
serial killers, that their ideal victim or their type, if you will, comes down to three different abilities.
00:25:08
One, desirability. Right. Two, availability, and three, vulnerability. With child predators, I firmly believe
00:25:19
that they have much more of a type as a as as it would be more commonly discussed,
00:25:26
right? When people talk about Ted Bundy, they go, "Well, all of his victims were
00:25:30
college-age uh girls with brown hair." Well, that's ac- actually not true. A lot of them
00:25:36
were, but that's that he didn't stick to that Right. template, if you will. Where I think
00:25:45
that I've reviewed enough cases with child predators, they they are much closer to having
00:25:51
an actual type. Now, the sheriff and the assistant special agent in charge at the
00:25:59
FBI brought the composite to the So, a a composite was conducted. They bring it to the Walden residence so
00:26:08
that the parents, Sue and Steve, could take a look at it and see if it resembled anyone familiar to them.
00:26:15
Because it's not uncommon for someone who knew who would know a victim to abduct them. Right.
00:26:21
And Steve, who had remained relatively composed through all of this in the beginning, studied the drawing and said
00:26:27
it didn't remind him of anyone. Sue, the mother, trembled as she looked at the composite, knowing that that face
00:26:36
in the sketch might belong to the person who took her son. But, she also said [snorts] it didn't
00:26:44
look like >> [music] >> anyone she knew. >> [music] [music] [music] [music] [music]
00:27:28
[music] >> Learn more at adobe.com/dot with acrobat. With Plan B emergency contraception,
00:27:37
we're in control of our future. It's backup birth control you take after unprotected sex that helps prevent
00:27:42
pregnancy before it starts. It works by temporarily delaying ovulation, and it won't impact your future fertility. Plan
00:27:48
B is available in all 50 US states at all major retailers near you with no ID, prescription, or age requirement needed.
00:27:56
Together, we got this. Follow Plan B on Insta at Plan B One-Step to learn more. Use as directed. Ryan Reynolds here from
00:28:03
Mint Mobile with a message for everyone paying big wireless way too much. [music]
00:28:07
Please, for the love of everything good in this world, stop. With Mint, you can get premium wireless for just $15 a
00:28:13
month. Of course, if you enjoy overpaying, no judgments, but that's weird. Okay, one judgment.
00:28:20
Anyway, give it a try at mintmobile.com/switch. Upfront payment of $45 for 3-month plan
00:28:26
equivalent to $15 per month required. Intro rate for 3 months only, then full price plan options available. Taxes and
00:28:30
fees extra. See full terms at mintmobile.com. >> [music] [music] [music] [music]
00:28:58
>> All right, we are back. Thanks for joining us here in the garage. Tall cans in the air. Cheers to the
00:29:03
people in the back. Power to the people. Cheers to you, Captain. Power to the people.
00:29:10
But, this these cases are different. It's it's very haunting. You hear about people
00:29:18
uh especially college-aged victims or young adults going to bars late at night, meeting a strange individual,
00:29:28
maybe going to a party where they don't know a lot of individuals, or heading off somewhere.
00:29:34
But, it's it's dark. It's the night. Mhm. There's predators at night that I think there's a
00:29:41
something built into our systems that go, "Hey, be careful. It's nighttime." These
00:29:48
crimes are not taking place at night. And like I said in a previous episode, is this individual starting
00:29:59
their hunt, if you will, in the early mornings just like, you know, a hunters get up early and go out hunting in the
00:30:08
in the morning? Or is it a continuation? Is it is is it something that they are starting
00:30:16
in the dark, but just capturing their prey, if you will, in the morning because of the opportunity? Yeah, it's
00:30:25
different difficult to say. >> But you know what I'm saying? Like most of the time it's like
00:30:29
these crimes happen, especially when there's multiple crimes in a in one location, the Phantom Killer case,
00:30:37
right? We we see these cases where law enforcement or the or the community sets these curfews. Hey, don't go out at
00:30:46
night. Be careful. And and yes, there's probably a threat level during the day, but it's like, okay, it's getting dark,
00:30:54
everybody getting your houses. This is different. This is the threat level is right when you wake
00:31:00
up. The threat level is on your way to school. The I I think that's terrifying. Oh, absolutely. And with the Gosh case
00:31:09
and with the Eberly case, they they were paper boys. So you do have the cover of
00:31:13
darkness, but but it's in the morning hours. Yeah. >> It's in the the early morning. Here, we
00:31:18
have a kid who vanishes in in daylight. And the only good part about that is that it might have
00:31:26
produced, if this witness actually saw the abduction or the start of the abduction, then it did produce a a
00:31:34
witness with a description. And law enforcement tells the Waldens that they intend to release the composite sketch
00:31:42
to the media hoping it will generate additional tips. The witness had also provided a partial license plate number.
00:31:50
>> Ooh. >> But but the sheriff explained that they were hesitant to release the partial plate
00:31:57
because more than a thousand vehicles in the state of Nebraska contained some variation of those letters and or
00:32:06
numbers. Yeah, but I can't imagine all thousand of them were colored tan. So publicizing it would likely generate too
00:32:16
many false leads. So Right. You say that, but if they're only getting two letters and a number or three numbers no
00:32:23
letters, I don't know exactly what she gave to them. Well, and they might not want to release
00:32:30
that they believe that the vehicle is the color of tan, right? >> Well, and a lot of times you you would
00:32:37
release something a little more vague because you don't want people to rationalize away a potential good tip.
00:32:45
So you don't you wouldn't say a tan sedan, you would say a light colored vehicle.
00:32:51
And so again, though, this is their statements that this we we So here's what they do.
00:32:59
They worry that publicizing it would generate too many false leads. They are working against the clock here. But
00:33:05
they're going to work that angle in house. So those partial digits then went to the state DMV. A computer
00:33:14
search produced nearly a thousand possible matching cars statewide. So in house they were working that with here's
00:33:21
the information we think we have with the plate, cross reference it with vehicles that match the vague
00:33:26
description, what what's our total that we come up with? It's nearly a thousand possible matching cars statewide. Now,
00:33:34
if you narrow that down to Sarpy County, which you don't know, we don't know if the plate was Sarpy County or not,
00:33:40
Right. but that that will reduce that number probably somewhat greatly. I don't know how
00:33:47
greatly. I don't have those numbers in front of me, but it's going to be a grind. It's going to be a slog. Police
00:33:53
were prepared for the grinding work of checking each one of those vehicles that were on that list.
00:34:01
>> And I think you point out something great here. You do have a ticking time bomb
00:34:07
because you don't have this victim. You you don't know what has happened to this victim,
00:34:13
but I think you actually have two ticking time bombs. You have first, we got to try to find Christopher.
00:34:20
Yeah. But if we don't find Christopher or if we find him, but he's not alive, we have another ticking time bomb
00:34:28
because if these cases are connected, we only had a three-month gap. And is that gap going to get shorter?
00:34:36
Is it going to be we find Chris and then two weeks later another kid gets abducted? You know, as I said, it's
00:34:43
going to be a slog getting through that list, but if but well before those leads
00:34:48
could all be chased down, and this puts us at the marker of just three days after the boy went missing, Right.
00:34:57
two bird hunters found Christopher's body in a heavily wooded area. This is about I've have a few different
00:35:06
descriptions here. Some say 4 miles, some say 5 miles. So let's go with about 4 to 5 miles away from where he had been
00:35:13
abducted. The two hunters had been out hunting and discovered him lying in the woods. Chris had suffered multiple stab
00:35:21
wounds. Now, it's a bit of luck here for the investigation and really for the community. The hunters had been
00:35:29
fortunate to find Chris when they did because snow had began coming down heavily that day. So one The way that
00:35:39
this worked out was one hunter shot a pheasant. And they walked to where the bird fell.
00:35:47
And the pheasant actually landed at Chris's feet. Jesus. >> Chris's body was almost completely
00:35:53
covered by snow, but the hunters could make out the shape. And when they got closer, they said that
00:36:00
they recognized him from the photographs that had been circulating in the media.
00:36:05
So they backed away and they called the sheriff's office. Now, Chris's body was found
00:36:10
approximately 3 miles from where the offender, if it if it were the same person, Right. had disposed of Danny Joe
00:36:19
Eberly. >> Yeah, so we have similar age, same like I said, the three-month window,
00:36:26
same time of day, very similar looks. Same build. Same Yeah, same build and then found in
00:36:33
similar location and it's not unreasonable to go, well, he didn't want to he didn't want to dispose
00:36:40
of the body in the exact same location, but I'd say 3 miles in a wooded area is pretty much the same location. And I
00:36:49
want to be clear when I'm talking about luck here because I often point out that
00:36:53
the victims never get lucky. And of course, in this case, it's the same thing. Christopher was killed. Danny Joe
00:36:59
Eberly was killed. It's usually the killer that gets lucky. What I mean here, it's a narrow stroke of luck
00:37:06
inside of the horror that's going on. Yeah. >> Because Christopher was found just as
00:37:11
heavy snowfall began. So even just a few more hours, one more day could have completely buried the scene and delaying
00:37:20
discovery until spring. We know a lot of victims are found in the spring time. And by then,
00:37:27
if it is the same killer, this killer might have struck multiple times. Christopher's case also clarified
00:37:33
something every investigator learns the hard way. The abduction site is often not the
00:37:38
murder site. The murder site is often not where the body is found. The place where the body is discovered becomes the
00:37:44
crime scene because it yields the most evidence. But the mechanics of the abduction and the killing can remain
00:37:52
hidden to investigators. We'll circle back into that thought here in just a second here, Captain. Let's
00:37:58
get into some of the more finer points, some of the details that are not so nice to discuss.
00:38:06
The injuries were extensive. We have numerous stab wounds over Chris's chest and shoulders, and his
00:38:12
neck had been cut ear to ear. The conclusion was grim, but clear. Chris had died violently and appeared it
00:38:21
had happened quickly. Christopher was wearing only his undershorts. He was the same height and almost the
00:38:29
same age as the first victim, Danny, but he was about 15 lb lighter. For the investigators who saw what had
00:38:38
been done, the conclusion came quickly. This was the same killer. Remember, both of them found just
00:38:46
wearing their undershorts. So let's let's take a look at these two murders. In Danny's case,
00:38:53
we have FBI Peter Klismet and Robert Ressler. They're they're going to be called back in
00:38:58
to work on Christopher Walden's case. Now, Peter Klismet, because he's more local, was there before Ressler. Ressler
00:39:05
does not arrive until after Christopher Walden's body is found. >> But Ressler told us, if we if we don't
00:39:13
catch this guy, he will offend again. >> Yes. Now, in the first case, in Danny's
00:39:18
case, both Agent Klismet and Ressler believed that Danny had been killed elsewhere and then
00:39:26
dumped near the river. In Christopher Walden's case, the evidence suggested the opposite. The dump site was also the
00:39:33
murder site. So his clothes were found piled neatly near his body. And in fact, footprints, nearly by snow showed two
00:39:44
sets of feet walking into the area where the boy's body was found, but only one set walking
00:39:52
out. So, that detail mattered. It suggests one offender. It suggests a relatively slight offender, too, and
00:40:01
we'll circle back to that. I guess we don't need to. The The idea here is that and Ressler believed this,
00:40:08
that your offender's probably on the smaller side because he chose to walk the victim to the murder site
00:40:18
rather than carry the body deep into the woods. Right. >> So, he forced the boy to walk out there
00:40:24
under threat. And Robert Ressler said that this revealed a coward at the core, choosing small victims unlikely to fight
00:40:33
back, easy to intimidate. He also says that at the same time, the killer had improved.
00:40:42
He was learning from his first murder. He was adjusting. The first murder had involved tape and
00:40:49
rope. Remember, they found those at the body discovery scene. Right. These are tools that would have gave the killer
00:40:57
confidence and control over the victim. But after the first case, those items became liabilities. Why?
00:41:04
They were recovered at the first scene. So, if rope and tape were being analyzed, if fibers could be traced, if
00:41:11
brands could be identified, then repeating those materials risked connecting him to the first killing. So,
00:41:18
perhaps he grew smarter. He evolved thinking, "I won't use these items again, or at the very least, if I do use
00:41:26
them, I won't leave them there for the police to find." He's also likely learning he could control a child victim
00:41:33
without binding him. He could do it with authority, with fear, pressure, and threats. Right.
00:41:41
And depending on your weapon, I mean, obviously, we have some evidence that there's a knife involved, but a knife
00:41:49
could be the murder weapon, but not the threat. So, uh or the weapon used to control. So, you could use a gun to
00:41:58
control the victim, but a knife in the attack. But I also think it's teaching this killer that I don't have to have
00:42:06
this crazy ruse to get the the the uh victim into the car. I just got to get in proximity where
00:42:16
this can the the weapon used to control, I just have to get in the proximity, so
00:42:22
then I can show them the weapon that I'm going to use them to control, if that makes any sense. And Christopher's
00:42:28
murder revealed another detail here that was different. He took this boy further into the woods, much
00:42:36
more further into the woods. So, he's managing risk. And he also avoided They didn't find the
00:42:45
clothing in the first one. So, at some point, you run you run the risk of getting caught with
00:42:50
the clothing. So, this is evidence, right? You get caught with evidence in your possession or in your vehicle.
00:42:56
Right. And so, he kept the victim clothed longer, moved into isolation, then forced the victim to undress only
00:43:04
once the killer, the offender felt safe. He And he wanted to better conceal the second body, maybe in hopes that it
00:43:13
would delay the recovery, or potentially not at all be found. Right. So, another victim,
00:43:22
another murder meant Robert Ressler updating the offend the offender profile, or at least adding more context
00:43:29
to his original profile. Ressler commented later on the repeated stripping of the victim, right? In both
00:43:37
cases, they're found in their undershorts. So, this is now confirmed in the second
00:43:42
murder. He said that this action looked more decisively sexual, tied to humiliation and fantasy, even without
00:43:52
conventional sexual assault. The lack of penetration in both cases hardened another conclusion that the
00:44:00
killer was likely profoundly dysfunctional sexually, driven by ritualized fantasy more than
00:44:07
adult intimacy. He says, "In everyday life, I believe this offender would have difficulty associating with peers. If he
00:44:14
dated, it would be performative or dysfunctional, and likely with significantly younger girls, partners
00:44:22
that he could dominate." The physical medical examination, the injuries were stab wounds and deep lacerations
00:44:30
concentrated on the chest and neck. There was a star-shaped cutting. So, they find a pattern, a pattern cut
00:44:39
on the second victim. But what's intriguing to the investigators is rather than this being
00:44:46
something that they thought was signature for the killer, it actually they thought was to conceal something
00:44:55
else that had occurred. So, they say that this star-shaped cutting took place over what appeared to be a
00:45:02
bite mark. There were two locations on the second victim where they believe that skin was removed to
00:45:12
cover up what was the offender biting the victim. Ressler is thinking that this killer is not
00:45:19
that experienced, but obviously is learning, and then there's no bite marks in the first case,
00:45:27
but the second case, there's bite marks, or or some reason that skin is removed.
00:45:32
So, maybe that's a escalation of the fantasy of the this whole crime. Well, and if they're correct and the cases are
00:45:41
correct, which that's what they're saying right away when when discovering the body, they
00:45:45
>> If they're connected, yeah. Yeah, they they were convinced the FBI was convinced it's connected. And now you're
00:45:51
kind of learning something about your offender. If in fact he did bite the first victim as well, he may have
00:45:57
covered that up in some form or fashion as well, right? Correct. So, the the bite marks would be something
00:46:06
that he wasn't able that he that he had to do, right? It's part of his fantasy, it's part of Right.
00:46:12
>> of why he does what he does. It a signature, almost, if you will. I mean, that's one of the craziest things is
00:46:18
when you learn this idea that they're reenacting the fantasy over and over. They might be
00:46:25
changing some of the the methods because there is a criminal mind aspect of it, right? So, the the major thing is I have
00:46:34
a fantasy I want to live out that fantasy. But in order to do so, and and in order to continue that fantasy, or
00:46:41
escalate the fan fantasy, or to perfect the fantasy, like that that's fascinating to me that they're they're
00:46:49
they're basically trying to put themselves in the situation and control the situation, so the fantasy becomes
00:46:54
more defined in the moment Yeah. to to match whatever sick perversion is in their head.
00:47:03
Well, and I I always say it's it's like a drug. It's like chasing the dragon, and that dragon is
00:47:11
a violent sexual fantasy. A fantasy that's all wrapped up in sex and violence and strange, sick, deviant
00:47:20
behavior all into one. But the offender, when they are thinking or living out that fantasy alone prior
00:47:31
to any murders or abductions, it's they are the writer, the director, and the actor in the movie
00:47:40
in their head. There's other There's the role of the victim, or other victims that are being played
00:47:47
out in that person's fantasy, in that evil person's fantasy. But But the cast members haven't been filled yet. These
00:47:55
victims are the cast members. This is He's written this fantasy, he's directed it, and he's acted in it many times.
00:48:02
Now, we have a situation where there's somebody casted to play the role of the victim. Right.
00:48:08
>> And but But what's interesting to me here as well, what we're seeing is while
00:48:14
there's all that fantasy involved, and he can't control himself to the point where he would bite the person, because
00:48:19
you would think he would want to, knowing that he chooses to cover it up later, knowing that that Oh, this might
00:48:24
get me caught. But it also this victim and the scene tells us the body tells us, just like in the first case, that
00:48:34
this person isn't completely insane. It's not a frenzied killer. He's not just killing, doing whatever he wants to
00:48:40
do, and just leaving the body. He's making attempts to get away with it, to not be detected, to not be identified,
00:48:49
and he's increased his level of concealment and covering it up with the second murder. Yeah. And he's reduced
00:48:57
his risk with the second with actions that he took with this second abduction and
00:49:03
murder. And Ressler said the progression between the murders also looked like escalation. The first killing read like
00:49:10
an experiment, testing whether he could do it or not. The second showed fascination,
00:49:16
repetition, and increased postmortem cutting. And Ressler became convinced of several details. One, there were no
00:49:24
accomplices. This was one offender acting alone. Well, the the evidence doesn't definitively prove
00:49:34
that because there could be another actor as far as abducting. But I think the footprints is evidence
00:49:43
that there is at least in the Walden case. We know where the crime scene is. It's the It's where the body's found. So
00:49:51
if we only have a singular footprint leaving or a singular footprint alongside the
00:49:59
victim's footprints then there's only one killer. The other portion of this too that he
00:50:08
became convinced of was geography tightened the net. We talked about the proximity of the close proximity with
00:50:15
everything involved here between the two cases. He's now of the belief the offender knew the area too well to be
00:50:23
transient. Remember he went with his first profile he left the door open on the possibility that it could be a
00:50:30
transient offender. And now he he had already kind of circled and hovered around this with the first profile but
00:50:38
now he was really leaning on this extremely heavily saying that he believed the offender was from
00:50:45
Bellevue or the airbase off it. And he he he pointed the detectives once again in the direction of the airbase.
00:50:57
And then he even goes further with this saying that he made a sharper occupational prediction for the
00:51:04
offender. He said you're looking for a low-ranking airman. E4 class or lower that would be working
00:51:12
in light maintenance or administration perhaps a mechanic someone who would blend in move around without drawing
00:51:19
attention and understand the rhythms of the area. Back to the bite marks again this
00:51:25
Let's let's use his words cuz I used a lot of my own before and he says that You can use whoever's words you want to
00:51:32
use. Certain Certain wound patterns also suggested something else concealment of bite marks
00:51:39
a person trying to hide bite marks likely new bite patterns could identify an offender. That wasn't universally
00:51:46
public knowledge at the time but it was discussed in detective and police magazines. Ressler wrote that the
00:51:53
offender likely read such publications. And we see this in most serial offenders, right?
00:52:01
There's a criminal mind. There's a criminal interest there. And the ogre Rex Heuermann you know he pled
00:52:12
guilty, right? Uh but you know they're now talking about some kind of mind hunter
00:52:20
type investigation with him or like a psychiatric investigation I guess you will the same
00:52:28
that Edmund Kemper Edmund Kemper did with FBI agents and and other serial killers
00:52:34
have done. So it's it's I would almost assume that that's more commonplace in serial offenders
00:52:42
to have an interest in the true crime genre. Absolutely. Absolutely. Uh especially the ones that aren't
00:52:52
heavily involved with with being intoxicated whether it be alcohol or drugs or both. Right. With
00:52:59
the ease that this perpetrator was able to commit the abductions the FBI also believed that the offender had likely
00:53:09
had involvement with boys in a social acceptable setting. Boys of this specific age so they
00:53:17
pointed to things like Boy Scouts coaching youth programs something that gave him proximity to
00:53:24
uh these age of boys. Now the big concern here was of course now we have two unsolved murders. Now we
00:53:35
have another victim but also the calendar. Look at the calendar look at what's ahead. School holidays were
00:53:42
coming and they knew that this killer if it was one in the same this killer would
00:53:48
strike again and it would be soon and it would be sooner it'll be quicker than the last time.
00:53:55
And with children outside of school his opportunities would multiply. So there was an all-out media blitz newspapers TV
00:54:03
radio and it was repetitive over and over again. They hit the people hard with information. Children should play in
00:54:10
groups parents should watch for suspicious cars write down license plates and call a
00:54:16
heavily advertised task force number. So they gave out the task force number. The other thing that we've seen
00:54:22
in these types of investigations too where they start to become very public and want the public to know that they
00:54:29
are there and there is a strong law enforcement presence Right. >> you will see often times that the a
00:54:35
person in charge or like I like to call the the champion right? The the Who are we going to champion in law enforcement
00:54:42
to become the enemy of the offender. The enemy of You have the face of evil. I talk about this
00:54:51
in the Delphi book. You have the face of evil but you need the face of law enforcement of the person who's going to
00:54:57
apprehend whose unit and team is going to find this guy. >> Yeah you need the Batman to the Joker.
00:55:03
Exactly. Need Batman to the Joker. So you're constantly putting pressure on your offender by announcing how big
00:55:12
and what is the number of the law enforcement presence in the area. They established something here called a code
00:55:19
17. So if another abduction was reported Sarpy County could this is something they practiced. Sarpy County could seal
00:55:28
off the entire county roadways within 11 minutes. Wow. So the goal stop the abductor before they could
00:55:38
leave or before they could become isolated with the victim trap the offender. The media
00:55:45
campaign was tremendous and the public responded. There were there were no immediate abduction
00:55:52
attempts after they were really digging in on the Walden case and still working the Eberle
00:56:01
case. Well this is another part of the ticking time bomb, right? So you have a in the first case we have multiple
00:56:08
scenes. We have the abduct the abduction site. We have the kill site then we have the disposal site. So we
00:56:14
have three. But then the second case we have abduction site and then the the disposing of the body site is the
00:56:23
same as the kill site. Meaning when that when this predator gets their victim there there's no stopping at
00:56:33
Starbucks to get a coffee. They're going straight to the disposal {slash} kill site.
00:56:38
>> Yes that appears to be the case. Um it it gets a little difficult because in none of the information that I could
00:56:47
find were they did they sound convinced of the the time of death. It was you know I've reviewed a lot of
00:56:55
information on both of these cases and some were leaning towards shortly after the abduction others were leaning
00:57:01
towards closer to the time that the body was discovered and we know that both cases oddly enough there was roughly a
00:57:07
three-day window. Okay so that's fascinating. So what you're saying is that well in the second case it could be
00:57:14
well I'm going to take you to this other location that's not going to be where I
00:57:18
kill you but I am going to hold you for a time period and maybe that's part of the fantasy. Absolutely.
00:57:27
So on January 11th 1985 the case shifted dramatically. On this day there was an incident that led
00:57:35
to a major break in the case. This is January 11th 1985 at a church daycare center early that morning a preschool
00:57:44
teacher arrived for work at a Methodist United Methodist Church in Bellevue. She
00:57:49
parked her car stepped out of the vehicle and began walking toward the preschool entrance located in the
00:57:56
church's basement. She says that she noticed a young man sitting in a white vehicle
00:58:03
near the church. For a brief moment their eyes met but nothing was said. She continued on pushing forward.
00:58:10
The man startled her. He was a He was slight in stature and matched the partial description of the offender
00:58:20
of the abductor in the Walden case that had been broadcasted throughout the media. The teacher began
00:58:27
writing something down and the young man saw her do this. So he gets out of the car. He walked to
00:58:33
the daycare door then he pushed his way inside telling her that he needs to use the telephone.
00:58:40
She refused and the refusal didn't seem to slow him down. It seemed to provoke him. He pulled a knife and threatened to
00:58:47
kill her and he demanded the slip of paper the one that she was writing something down on. Now she
00:58:54
was writing down his license plate number. Yeah smart move. In a split-second decision powered by fear
00:59:01
and instinct the teacher resisted. She shoved him away and ran hard toward the pastor's residence
00:59:08
located very nearby. She reached the residence pounded on the door. When someone answered she yelled
00:59:14
to them to call the police. The man fled back to his vehicle and drove off. Bellevue police arrived within minutes
00:59:21
but the white vehicle and the young man were already gone. But now there was something
00:59:26
investigators had needed for months a license plate number and one that wasn't based off of memory or hypnosis
00:59:35
or trying to piece together some letters and numbers. Police run the plate. The result immediately raised the
00:59:42
stakes. Running the plate led investigators quickly to the registered owner, but this at first glance kind of
00:59:50
fell flat. The registered owner was a nearby Chevrolet dealership. So, this vehicle wasn't privately owned.
00:59:58
It was actually a loaner. So, it was checked out to an airman stationed at Offutt Air Force Base while
01:00:06
his car was being repaired. >> Yeah, and that detail immediately mattered. >> Well, all right. So, there you go,
01:00:15
Captain. The airman's personal vehicle was sitting inside the dealership garage.
01:00:22
And it fit what witnesses had been describing. It was a tan Chevy Nova. Closely matching descriptions witnesses
01:00:31
had provided in connection with the slayings of Danny Joe Eberle and Christopher Walden. And the Nova had
01:00:39
reportedly remained untouched because the dealership was so busy with cars to fix that [snorts] the mechanics
01:00:47
simply hadn't got to it yet. So, they go over and as they're approaching it, they
01:00:52
immediately notice that the Nova, the license plate shared the same couple of digits that the hypnotized
01:01:00
witness had recalled. Yeah. And when the officers look inside the vehicle, they saw rope and a knife. The plate for this
01:01:08
vehicle, Captain, came back to a one John J. Jupert. Again, an Offutt Air Force man stationed at Offutt Air Force
01:01:19
Base. Jupert had the loaner because his car had broken down due to engine trouble.
01:01:25
And I for my understanding, it had been towed. So, now this dude, we're going to look at this guy, but we
01:01:31
have one benefit when we go to look at him, right? It It appears he was a involved in some kind of attempted
01:01:38
assault on this woman at the church. So, we we're not just going there with, "Hey, a plate number and your vehicle
01:01:46
was seen." We're we're going there with somebody telling us, "You You assaulted somebody." We We already have pending
01:01:52
charges on you. So, when they get to Offutt at the air base, they encounter John Jupert. He's in his
01:02:00
quarters. He's sitting on his bunk. He's initially arrested for the attempted robbery and assault involving the
01:02:07
preschool teacher, but it didn't take long for the focus to broaden given the ongoing panic, the
01:02:13
previous murders, and the increasingly urgent need to stop whoever was responsible for this Nebraska nightmare.
01:02:20
They began questioning him and told him, "Look, man, you are a suspect in these two child abductions and homicides."
01:02:29
And they're telling him, "Your vehicle's matching a description that we were looking for. Your plate's
01:02:35
matching a description that we were looking for. Your appearance is matching a description we were looking for. And
01:02:40
oh, by the way, we found rope and knife." Not to mention that we also have footprints that probably match as well.
01:02:47
But it is it is quite disturbing how much or how much this individual doesn't look much older than the victims. Well,
01:02:57
and the thing here, too, is Yes, and I'm I mean, he looks like a child to me. Like if somebody said to
01:03:04
me, "Look at Jupert's arrest photo, how would you describe this individual?" I'd be like, "I don't know. Maybe 15, 16
01:03:14
years old?" Yeah, I was going to say 16. And and also like and that's just off this picture, but he's only 5'6". If I
01:03:23
saw him out at a grocery store or the local vinyl shop cuz I'm picking up some Elvis Presley or Notorious B.I.G.,
01:03:33
I'm going, "Well, this guy might be 15, 16 years old." Which would only be a couple years older than the victim.
01:03:39
>> See, that's what That's We'll peel open the curtain here a little bit and let you peek behind the scenes, but
01:03:46
truth be told, we 99% of the time we don't compare notes here in the garage. But I But our observations often
01:03:54
overlap. And here's the exact same thing. I look at this this booking photo and I go, "My
01:04:00
god, that guy's 16 years old. He's He's but a kid himself." Now, the rope is what they wanted to talk to him about.
01:04:08
Initially, he tells them that, "Look, that that rope is not rare. It's not unique."
01:04:15
Um later, they determine that it was in fact unique. And it's going to be the rope that's going to put the killer at a
01:04:21
disadvantage when he tries to deny having any involvement. He eventually breaks down and tells them that he he
01:04:29
was the killer, that he did abduct both of them. And they learn a lot about John
01:04:35
Jupert very quickly. He had joined the Air Force a little more than a year before
01:04:43
the murder and abduction of Danny Joe Eberle. He received training in Mississippi and Texas before being
01:04:53
stationed at Offutt Air Force Base. He was stationed there um about 2 months or so prior to Eberle's
01:05:01
murder. And at the time, he was also serving as an assistant scoutmaster or denmaster
01:05:08
for a Boy Scout troop in Bellevue. So, Ressler was right with his thought that you would find the guy at
01:05:18
the Air Force Base. He was also right that he would have some kind of regular interaction with
01:05:26
boys similar in age to the two victims. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. My My concern about that item in the profile
01:05:35
was when they were talking about, "Oh, maybe it's somebody from this Air Force Base."
01:05:40
But like you said, it's you're bringing individuals in and out. They're being transferred. So,
01:05:48
I I mean, to me, I think that's a little crazy that somebody's able to get transferred and within
01:05:54
weeks of being transferred, they're already involved in in an organization that would put them around their victim
01:06:01
type. Yeah, so I had just read a from my notes that a stationed at the Offutt Air Force Base
01:06:08
about 2 months prior to the Eberle murder. I I actually think he might have been there quite a bit before because
01:06:15
remember, Ressler encouraged them to look for individuals that had been stationed
01:06:22
there within 6 months prior to the Eberle murder. I I think it was prior to 6 months. I'm This might just be bad
01:06:29
note-taking on my behalf. >> Well, get your [ __ ] together. >> Well, no, I'm just being transparent that I
01:06:35
don't know if he was I know [snorts] he was in the Air Force. Signed up for the Air Force 1 year prior
01:06:42
to the murder. Right. I don't know how soon he got to Offutt because there is some thought that often times these guys
01:06:50
will have triggers. There's thought that his trigger here was he had developed a
01:06:55
closeness, a relationship with his roommate at the barracks there. And that these two roommate mates, two airmen,
01:07:04
were being picked on by the other airmen. And that the the one, his friend, the his one and only friend at
01:07:11
the Air Force Base, decided to move to another room or or relocate. >> Mhm. And they think that maybe the
01:07:20
stress of that could have pushed this guy who was Look, he was already on the edge if he hadn't already gone over. But
01:07:28
if he was on the edge, that may have been the thing that the tipping point here. And Some people are not good with
01:07:34
having being alone with their thoughts. Because then that fantasy becomes more enticing. Where if you had a roommate,
01:07:45
you wouldn't be left alone with your thoughts. So, maybe the escalation in your mind of these fantasies doesn't
01:07:52
escalate. But a lot of these killers, we we see that they spend so much time alone. But I think that's because
01:08:00
they're losing control of of this fantasy that most of them they have to know that it's not natural because
01:08:08
they're not having conversations with a lot of people about these unnatural thoughts. But like I said, when you're
01:08:14
alone with these unnatural thoughts, they they manifest. Absolutely. And the thing, too, in regard to the rope, they
01:08:23
also found the rope in his in his quarters at the air base. So, it wasn't just in his car. They find this rope.
01:08:31
This rope was unique enough. Apparently, he got it from uh somebody he worked with in the Boy Scouts there in
01:08:38
Bellevue. Pretty much when they had him dead to rights, he asked if he could speak with the troop leader that he
01:08:46
worked with. And he also wanted to to speak with one of the boys, a specific boy that was a member of the
01:08:54
scout troop. And what did he want to tell this boy? Well, they they granted him both wishes, but told him it was
01:09:03
going to be strictly supervised, especially with the child there. I mean, the child The boy was the same age as as
01:09:10
the victims. I guess he had befriended the boy, and the boy had befriended him, and he he simply told the boy, "Look, I
01:09:16
did this, but I never would have have hurt you. I just want you to know I didn't do this because of you. I didn't
01:09:22
do it in spite of you. And I never would have hurt you." I don't know why that was important to him, but cool because
01:09:28
and good by them to allow this to happen in the way that it did because I can't say that he wouldn't have
01:09:34
confessed, but he absolutely did confess to both murders after talking to these individuals
01:09:41
uh when they were supervised. And then he gave details of both that were significant enough
01:09:48
that they knew that only the killer would know these details. And according to Juper, again, they always lie about
01:09:56
portions of this. Of course they do. But according to Juper, he said he approached both boys, displayed a knife,
01:10:02
threatened to kill them if they didn't come with him. He denied that the abductions and murders were sexually
01:10:07
motivated, but he did say he enjoyed the power and control over the victims. Now,
01:10:14
I'm glad that you pointed out how young he appeared because when I was first looking into this case and without
01:10:22
having the details of his confession, my suspicion was that he looked young enough that even had even with there
01:10:30
being a a boy who had previously been abducted and murdered, that a 13-year-old boy
01:10:37
>> Right, might let his guard down because who are you scared of? You're scared of
01:10:41
the the the scary old white dude, right? You're scary scared of the the creepy looking guy in the van. You're not
01:10:48
scared of the 16-year-old that pulls up in a car that looks like a car that a 16-year-old would drive. Of course, he
01:10:55
he wasn't 16 years old, he just he just looked he just looked that because of his his slight stature. And that's the
01:11:03
other part of this, too. His victims were very small. I think that his when we we were talking about type earlier, I
01:11:10
think his type was of this age, but I think that there was some strategy involved in seeking out smaller victims
01:11:19
because he was himself slight. He was 21 years old at the time, baby-faced, which
01:11:24
that's an understatement. He looked like he was 15 or 16. Was he 12 years old at
01:11:29
the time of the murders, but 21 when he was arrested? Correct. Yep. Um well, and
01:11:34
we have a couple of we have a span of of many months that go by here. But he's only 5'6",
01:11:42
160 lb. He's a small little piece of [ __ ] Yeah, and he and even smaller than that, um
01:11:50
I you know, I forgive me because this the some of these measurements might be uh from later, from his time in prison.
01:11:58
So, to put it short though, he confessed, but catching Juper didn't end the story. Of course, it's going to move
01:12:06
into the courts, and then they're going to dig into his past, but John Juper, his case proceeded through the legal
01:12:13
system. He did confess, but despite confessing, he initially played not guilty to the charges, and then later
01:12:21
changed that plea to guilty. The boy scout that ended up having the conversation,
01:12:27
you're approached by law enforcement, hey, it's going to be supervised, but you still have to talk to this individual.
01:12:34
And so that that kid should be a that kid should be awarded because that would that takes some uh
01:12:41
big brass balls, my friend, to sit in a room or across the table from somebody that you know
01:12:49
murdered two individuals that probably look like you and then probably by all accounts the same description as
01:12:58
you. And as I said, he later changed his plea to guilty and was sentenced to die
01:13:03
in the electric chair after a three-judge panel concluded that John Juper understood right and wrong at the
01:13:11
time of the murders. Appeals followed, but John J. Juper remained on death row. >> [music]
01:13:28
[music] >> Want to thank everybody for joining us here in the garage. Thanks for telling
01:13:37
your mother. Thanks for telling your brother. For everything True Crime Show, go to
01:13:40
truecrimegarage.com. There's so much more in this series, so much more for us to
01:13:46
tickle your ear balls. Until the next episode. Be good, be kind, and don't litter.
01:13:53
>> [music] [music] [music] [music]