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[Music] Welcome to True Crime Garage. Wherever you are, whatever you are doing, thanks
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page. And Colonel, that's enough of the BS. All right, everybody. Gather around,
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grab a chair, grab a beer. Let's talk some true crime. [Music] We left things off at the interrogation
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in Altuna. Bill Tench has some questions for one of our murder suspects. Holden Ford is recording this questioning.
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Tench is getting verbally aggressive with Benjamin or Benji. He is or claims to be Beverly Jean's boyfriend. Tench
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wants to know why would you do that to Beverly Gene? A fractured jaw, two black eyes, 14 stab wounds, and as we said,
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the list goes on. Then they interview Benji's brother-in-law, Frank. He's the one with the police record. Benji breaks
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and starts to confess. Frank doesn't confess. In the car, Tench and Ford are discussing the case. Tench says, "I hate
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Frank, the brother-in-law, but it's always the boyfriend, and when you're lost, you play the percentages." Tench
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passes on a dinner invitation from his wife Nancy to invite Ford to dinner at the Tench house. and Holden Ford's going
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to accept the offer and bring his girlfriend with him to this dinner. Now, at the dinner, we learn that the tenious
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son, Brian, who is adopted, is going to be a mysterious and complicated character. Nancy says that they are not
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allowed to know where he was or who the parents were when they adopted him and stating that they have no idea what the
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child experienced. Back in Altuna, Dr. Wendy Carr with Holden Ford and tow describes to the district attorney what
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exactly happened in the Beverly Jean case. The DA ultimately goes easy on Frank, who agrees to testify against
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Benji. Benji likely getting the death penalty, according to the DA, while Frank, the far more violent offender,
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gets just 5 years in prison. >> Yeah. and they're very upset with his outcome. But I think what they realized
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is they can do all the research and all the studying they want and they can help
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law enforcement as much as they can, but at the end of the day, they're not completely in charge of the results.
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>> That's exactly right. Now, in real life, Dr. Anne Burgess is absolutely fantastic
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at analyzing and understanding postoffense behavior. For those that read her book, A Killer by Design, you
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already know that she is equally as brilliant at predicting postoffense behavior, which is extremely critical to
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any investigation. When predicted correctly, this will always lead to both detection and apprehension of the person
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or persons responsible. Back at the office, Dr. Carr says we need to focus on methodology and explains the way that
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each killer kills is unique. She recommends that the boys go to Oregon to talk with convicted serial killer Jerry
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Brudos, the trophy keeper. and she educates the boys about Jerry's history and his crime. So, not just a serial
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killer, but Jerry Brudos is also a necroile. In fact, far more serial killers are necroiles than the general
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public is even aware of. Brutos is known as the lust killer and the shoe fetish slayer who committed the kidnap, rape,
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and murder of four young women between 1968 and 1969 in Salem, Oregon. All of Brudo's murders were committed inside
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either his car or the basement or garage workshop of the two homes in which he resided in during the period that he
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committed these murders. and each victim was killed by strangulation. Several victims were photographed before and or
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after death and three of his victims underwent post-mortem dismemberment. Everything that the character Wendy Carr
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says about Jerry Brudos, we know to be true in real life, including that all of his murders took place after he was
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married and had two kids. So, something that can be applied to the hunt for the BTK killer as well. Not all of these
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evil bastards are loners. Some of them are in fact family men. >> But also, he is an ogre just like our
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buddy Edmund Kemper. >> You know, if this were to play out over five seasons of 8 to 10 episodes each,
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what I what I can kind of see here, while these are all actually people that that were interviewed by Douglas and
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wrestler at one time, I should say and or wrestler at one time. You're seeing traits that share traits of Dennis Rider
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along the way. They're not all of the traits, but some of them. And like here we see with Brudos, all of his murders
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took place after he was married and had two kids. Uh Bill Tench only smokes two cigarettes during this episode. And it
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closes out with the song I don't like Mondays, a song by Irish newwave band, The Boom Town Rats. If you want to be
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fully entertained for 3 minutes and 40 seconds, pull up the music video on YouTube. It's It's an interesting one.
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The song was a number one single in the UK singles charts for four weeks during the summer of 1979. Longtime listeners
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of our show, Off the Record, know that this song is about the Cleveland Elementary School shooting that took
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place on January 29th, 1979 at Grover Cleveland Elementary School in San Diego. The principal of that school and
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a custodian were killed. Eight children and a police officer were injured. The shooter was a 16-year-old girl, Brenda
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Spencer, who lived in a house across the street from the school. She was charged
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as an adult. She plead guilty to two counts of murder and assault with a deadly weapon and was sentenced to life
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in prison with a chance of parole after 25 years. And as of this taping, she is still in prison. And that's a whole lot
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of Mondays sitting in prison there, honey. Check out friend of the show in Lee Hunt's book about that true crime
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story titled, of course, I don't like Mondays. Well, not only is he a great writer, but he is also one funny dude.
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>> Yeah. Yes, he is. Um, he we we recently traded uh photos via text. Um, I sent
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him one of me >> flipping him the bird, to which he replied, giving me the finger right
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back. So, that's where our friendship stands at this moment. >> Hey, better the bird than a [ __ ]
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Meanwhile, yeah, if we were in the same room and there were there were beers available, we would be uh arm in-armm
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talking through through the afternoon and evening. Episode seven of Mine Hunter opens with
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once again our ADT serviceman in the scene. He's laying out his clothes and a what appears to be a kill kit on a bed.
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And I say clothes, but you can see prominently on the bed is a coat, a large winter coat, which we will later
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see him wearing that coat and have some items from that kill kit in his possession. Next, we go to Salem, Oregon
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to visit the lust killer, Jerry Brudos. Brutus claims that his confessions to those four murders were all coerced and
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that he is innocent. And just as Dr. Wendy Carr says in the show, he denies even when confronted with evidence.
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>> Even though he's a ogre like Edmund Keer, Edmund wants to be a part of the group. He admires
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law enforcement. >> Yes. >> But not the case here. >> No. No. Keer wants to be chummy with the
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with police and detectives and almost seems flattered that the FBI would want to visit him and talk with him where
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Jerry Brudos is like, >> "Cool, but what are you guys going to do for me?" Like, "This better be
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entertaining or worth my time or you guys can go fly a kite." >> Tench >> does not find the visit to be useful at
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all because again, he's not he is not admitting to the murder. So, what details are you going to glean from the
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conversation when he won't even admit that he did it, which is the exact opposite of Keer, who not only admits
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what he's done, he can articulate in great detail the what and why and how of his crimes. The flip of this though,
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Captain, is that Dr. Carr does find the visit to be useful. Now, we we should cover Brutus at some time. He shares a
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lot of similarities to Keer and Keer's crimes, and some of his other crimes are very weird. The way that he chose to
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carry them out and cover them up. The next time we see the Road Feds go back to Salem to visit Brut again, they will
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be better prepared. In fact, they bring a pack of cigarettes, which he requested
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in the first visit. And to his surprise and enjoyment, they bring him a pair of women's shoes as well,
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>> which he jerks off to. >> Right in front of the Yes. Right in front of the federal agents and the
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guard. >> Yeah. I mean, some people could say he's the honey badger. >> He don't give a [ __ ]
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>> Well, Wendy Carr does not like these tactics, even though they even though they got him to open up a
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little bit. Uh, so you know, and that's Holden Ford's whole angle with a lot of this stuff. Like, I'll do whatever it
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takes to get these evil guys to talk because he believes in the long run that good will prevail and the more that they
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know, the better equipped they will be to take these guys down, apprehend them, and save lives. So, the three, Dr. car
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and the two agents. Ultimately, they just end up disagreeing on how to learn from Brutus. Now, we go
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back to the tench house once again. This is when the babysitter quits after she tells Nancy and Bill that she found a
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Polaroid photo of a tortured murder victim under little Brian's bed. This is something that the the child he snuck
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into Bill Tench's office, home office there, and Tench has been working around the clock. He's bringing cases home with
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him, bringing case files home with him. And this is something that Brian took from one of those case files. But this
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also shows, I think, the behind the scenes of a law enforcement. He Bill has to deal with the sickest individuals on
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earth. And even though he apologizes for bringing this home, I think there's a part of him that's glad that his wife
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saw this and saw these things and and when they're in argument, he's throwing the pictures at her cuz I think he's
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trying to show her, do you see the sickness and the evil that I'm dealing with and you expect me to be this normal
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person all the time? Well, and he's fed up that she keeps pointing out to him that you never talk to me about your
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work. You never tell me what you're doing. You never tell me about the cases that you're working. And that's where
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he's like, "Oh, you you really want to see what I'm what I have to work on, what I'm forced to work on." And that's
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also a pretty aggressive way of expl of of proving to her that hey maybe lay off
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the uh I never talk about work. This see these are many many reasons why I don't
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want to talk about work. >> Well th this is the same thing I do to my cat. When my cat won't stop asking me
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about the podcast. I start throwing pictures in my cat's face. There there are some detectives, I've heard more
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than one detective say this or write about this where they say, you know, when I come home from work and maybe
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some FBI agents as well, when I come home from work, I take my shoes off and I leave them on the steps to the garage
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or to the on the steps to the back door or on the porch that I don't want to walk in my my detective shoes while I'm
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at home. I don't, you know, when when it's time to go to work, I put those shoes on and I turn it on. And when it's
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time to come home and be with my family, I take those shoes off and I shut it off. I like that they show this part,
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and we'll see this with Holden Ford a little bit, too, when him and the girlfriend start getting into
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problems with their relationship. that a lot of the problems that they're having,
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Bill Tench at his home with his wife and holding forward with his girlfriend most
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of the time at her uh apartment or or rented house that a lot of these problems, the issues in the relationship
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stem from their jobs, the stressfulness of their jobs, and also the stress of knowing when I'm trying to track down a
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serial killer, the longer it takes me or any mistake I make >> just means more people end up dead. So
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there's there's always a ticking clock. There's always a clock and that clock when it hits that hour,
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it ends with another innocent victim. And what we also learned from Edund Keer though is there's a bunch of them out
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there. So there's a ticking clock, but there's a ticking clock on every killer that they haven't caught yet. And I also
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wonder because most if not all of these killers or are sexually motivated if this would affect affect their uh sex
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life with their partners. As far as the stresses of the job and the in how it can affect the home life, it this is
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discussed in Douglas's books uh obsession and also in his book Journey into Darkness, but I think it's better
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explained and explored in Robert Wrestller's book, Whoever Fights Monsters. >> We should do a deep dive on that book.
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Back at the office, Bill Tinch calls Detective McGraw. This is about the Ada Jeffre case. We talked about this Ada
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Jeffre case more in our episodes one and two of of this series that we're currently doing. This is the unsolved
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case of the the mother and son that were killed. And I think that they're they're
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attempting to or at least planting the seed that this might be a reference to BTK's first killing, which we know at
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least the one he confessed to the OTO murders was much different than the Ada Jeff case is depicted in Mind Hunter.
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But this is Bill calling Detective McGraw to say that, you know, he had been looking at those photos, the crime
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scene photos that he had been taking home. And he noticed that the knots on the liatures binding Ada Jeff are
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nautical. And he points out the obvious to the detective that Fairfield, Iowa, where
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these murders took place, is landlocked, thus shrinking your suspect pool. >> Right. probably quite greatly. I would
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guess most of most of episode 8 is about the nickel for a tickle school principal.
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>> Yeah. >> A principal who is tickling the students feet >> probably also smelling them.
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>> That's unsettling. Holden is Holden is worried about escalation. So, what we've seen so far is the team
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has learned that there is a natural progression and escalation to deviant behavior. After studying Jerry Brudos's
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crimes in history, they understand that he first started off stealing women's undergarments and then that escalated to
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the extremes of abduction, rape, and murder and other extreme depraved and deviant behavior with multiple victims.
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The tickle principal, Roger Wade, as named on the show, is real and is discussed in one of Douglas's books,
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although I cannot confirm that that is his real name. This is when things take a bit of a turn because we get Holden,
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who stumbles onto a very interesting technique. He goes back to interview Brudos and Tench is not going to go
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along with this. He he doesn't want to. He's having his problems at home. He's not traveling all the way back out to
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Oregon to interview a guy that he thinks is not adding to any of their studies. That they're not learning anything from
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Jerry Brudos. While Brudos is not willing to admit to the killings, the interviews with Brudos are not working.
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While Dr. Wendy Carr finds them fascinating from an academic standpoint. Holton and Bill would like to use the
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interviews of these serial killers to better learn how to identify and apprehend these types of killers. Brudos
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on the one-on-one with Holden Ford tells him he has a lot of ideas about the murders and about the killer who
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actually committed the murders. This goes down this road that is completely fascinating to me. This is a technique
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that has proved to be very valuable. Most notably, this technique was used on Ted Bundy to learn his methods and find
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more victims. Read Ted Bundy Conversations with a Killer, the Death Row Interviews, or watch it. The audio
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tapes were made into a four-part series on Netflix with the title Conversations with a Killer, the Ted Bundy Tapes. Also
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read one of my absolute favorite true crime books, The Riverman. Ted Bundy and I hunt for the Green River Killer by the
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late and great Robert Keell. At the same time here, Captain, they are interviewing, they being the FBI team,
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are interviewing and hoping to hire a fourth member of the team. I found it intriguing that one of the
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gentlemen that they interview is Bill, a detective from Atlanta, who obviously we're going to meet Bill again. While he
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doesn't get the job, we meet Bill again in season 2. >> And he essentially works with the FBI in
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season two. >> The character name that gets the job is Greg Smith. His character is fun. He's a
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very religious man. Um, and takes a backseat often at times to Bill Tench and Holden Ford.
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>> Well, isn't doesn't it come out that he has some family connections and that's
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maybe why he was hired? >> Yes. So, their their superior is agent Shepard. And Shephard says that Greg
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Smith's he he knows Greg Smith's father that they went to Dartmouth together. And so he says it in a way of like
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suggesting like this is my this is my suggestion of who you should hire and you know how it goes when you have a
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boss. Usually that that doesn't mean you have an option. That means you go with the boss's pick there. And I had a I
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would like to hear from if if the listeners know and can sell it to me. I would like to know who they think Greg
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Smith is. I I looked and looked at several different FBI agents that of note and I couldn't I couldn't sort out
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if if he's supposed to be representing one of those those real life agents >> or maybe he's amalgamation of multiple
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agents. Episode 9 begins with the ADT man dressed in the coat that he had laid out with a stocking over his head.
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Presumably, he is in the home of a soontobe victim. [Music] [Music] All right, we are back. Cheers, mates.
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cans in the air. >> Cheers to you ladies and germs. ADT man in the home and he's not there to work
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on the security system. He's there and as said dressed to kill. He is waiting and waiting and waiting, but the victim
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does not return home and he gets very frustrated and he leaves. Now, this is absolutely real. We know that Dennis
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Rder intended to kill Anna Williams, aged 63, in 1979. She escaped death by returning home much, much later than he
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had expected. Raider explains during his confession that he became obsessed with
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Williams and was absolutely livid. Those were his words, quote, "Absolutely livid
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when she evaded him." He recalled spending hours waiting at Williams' home, but becoming impatient and leaving
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when she did not return from visiting with friends. Williams ultimately got lucky there. There in the scene, he is
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drinking from a glass, right? A a glass that belongs to the victim. It's was in the
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home when he got there. I like how they're sneaking these things in because this is another one of Dennis Rder's
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dumb things that he would do at every crime scene and then later blame the cops for not finding it. He's like, I
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drink I would drink he would drink from a glass, >> right? >> Leave his fingerprints on it and but but
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he would put the glass back in the cupboard. Then later, of course, years later, blame the the cops that, "Oh, I I
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gave you this clue and you you never found it." Next in the FBI car, we see Holden in Tench. They're discussing
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Richard Speck and the Holden Ford character compares mass murderer Richard Spec to a famous movie star and he's
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showing Bill Tench articles about the killer that he had clipped over the years. In fact, he he had had them prior
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to his job working for the BSU. Well, this guy is pure evil. After this scene, they're off to interview Spec. Richard
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Spec killed eight student nurses in their Chicago residence via stabbing, strangling, slashing their throats, or a
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combination of all three. This on the night of July 13th, early morning hours of July 14th, 1966.
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A ninth potential victim survived by hiding underneath a bed. Richard Spec was sentenced to death. However, his
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sentence was reduced to 400 to 1,200 years imprisonment and this was changed in 1972.
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This was later reduced again to 100 to 300 years in prison. Richard Spec died of a heart attack while incarcerated at
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Stateville Correctional Center on the eve of his 50th birthday. probably a side effect of all of the booze,
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cocaine, and steroids that he somehow got a hold of and consumed while in prison.
00:27:13
>> Well, one of the things I think are interesting is all these serial killers are different, and we see them in
00:27:21
different locations, different prisons, and the viewer wouldn't know what that prison was like or not. like is it a
00:27:30
accurate representation of that prison or is the director of Minehunter having these prisons to reflect more
00:27:42
about the killer? Does that make any sense? >> It makes absolute sense and I I think
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that it might be a fairly accurate depiction of some of the prisons. Some of them are are very similar during the
00:27:56
show. You know, I would I would think I kind of think of the Monty Rissell prison and the Jerry Brutus prison seem
00:28:04
very similar, but the flip of that is the prison where you have Richard Spec seems very chaotic,
00:28:11
>> right? >> And then where we see Ed Keer throughout the series is very buttoned up that that
00:28:18
facility. And I think part of that has to do with the facility themselves. And I would think that it's a somewhat
00:28:25
accurate depiction with those two because one of their locations, but also keep in mind Keer's in Vakavville. It's
00:28:32
essentially a a state facility hospital, corrections hospital, >> right, >> where Speck is in this this very chaotic
00:28:43
Stateville Correctional Center, and he's he's in there with a lot of really bad people. While incarcerated at the
00:28:49
Stateville Correctional Center, Richard Spec was given the nickname Birdman. This was after the film Birdman of
00:28:56
Alcatraz. This because he kept the pair of sparrows that flew into his cell. We,
00:29:02
as we pointed out in our previous episodes, Richard Spec was not a model prisoner by any means. He was often
00:29:10
caught with drugs or distilled moonshine. Punishment for such infractions never stopped him because
00:29:18
>> he would laugh at them. He'd get in trouble for something. He's like, "What are you going to do to me? I'm in here
00:29:22
for 1,200 years." Real piece of [ __ ] >> They discuss with Spec how he had told
00:29:31
the victims that he only wanted to rob them but ended up killing them. Now, this too goes back to insights into BTK.
00:29:41
As we know, BTK would often use this lie to calm his victims to gain control of them and tie them up. During the
00:29:50
interview on the show, Richard Spec throws his pet sparrow into a fan, killing it in front of the agents. So,
00:29:58
this is somewhat true. Okay, this is somewhat true. It's not true that he threw the sparrow into the fan in front
00:30:08
of John Douglas or Robert Wrestler. In Douglas's book, Mine Hunter, he talks about this incident and he says
00:30:17
that Spec revealed to him, Douglas, in an interview that he had found an injured sparrow that had flown in
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through one of the broken windows and nursed it back to health. So, that part is true. And when the bird was healthy
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enough to stand, he tied a string around its leg and had it perched up on his shoulder. But he had Speck had a
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disagreement with a guard, not with Douglas. And when this guard told Speck that you
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can't have pets, you're not allowed to have pets. This is when Richard Spec walked over to a spinning fan and threw
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the small bird in and of course horrified the guard and the guard says something like, "I thought you liked
00:31:00
that bird. You know, you took care of it." Spec says, "I did, but if I can't have it, no one can." Now, into insights
00:31:07
into Speck give the team the idea to further explore, organize, and disorganize killers, as Richard Speck is
00:31:14
very much a disorganized killer. And then they dive into the differences of spree killers, which is Richard Spec
00:31:22
versus serial killers, which is Monty Rissell, Jerry Brudos, Ed Keer. During this conversation on the show, they're
00:31:31
kind of loosely coining the terms along the way of spree killer and serial killer. The agents are then called out
00:31:40
to Adairville, Georgia to investigate the rape and murder of 12-year-old Lisa Don Porter. In the episode, they are
00:31:47
notified by the FBI Atlanta field office. There actually was a a case that's that this mirrors and they used
00:31:58
the killer's real name, but they they did not use the victim's name here. So, this is a real life case.
00:32:05
>> I do believe they changed some of the details of of the crime as well. >> Yeah. So, there was Daryl Jean Dver. I
00:32:13
would say Deor, but I think Holden Ford says Dver on the show. That's the killer's real name. He murdered a girl
00:32:19
named Mary Francis Stoner on November 30th, 1979 in Adarville, Georgia. He was convicted of her murder in November of
00:32:29
1983. This is after several mistrials. So, it kind of drugg on through the court
00:32:35
system, but he was eventually convicted of that. and he was executed by electric
00:32:41
chair in May of 1995. Now, Douglas, John Douglas devotes an entire chapter to this case in his book.
00:32:51
The chapter is titled Everyone Has a Rock. But I think this case is also interesting because as we see serial
00:32:59
killers seem to escalate, we're seeing an escalation and their knowledge of these crimes and these criminals. So it
00:33:08
seems like they're getting better as they go along. >> Well, and this is at least as depicted
00:33:15
on the show, this is all sort of tactics and strategies that they learned from talking to serial killers, right?
00:33:24
because they talk to Keer, he's an open book. They talk to Brutus, he he doesn't
00:33:28
want to tell them anything. But they learn ways to get Brutus to talk. It just like with the the very simple part
00:33:36
of bringing Monty Rristle the Big Red soda that he requested and now he's willing to talk. And so we see this kind
00:33:46
of play out here. I was going to read some excerpts from that from that chapter in Douglas's book, but I I don't
00:33:54
know if I do it any justice. I really think that people got to read that from start to finish there.
00:34:00
>> Right. >> Cigarettes smoked by Bill Tench in episodes 7, 8, and N. We get five total.
00:34:05
So, he's cutting back. He's cutting back. >> Very disappointing. With this number
00:34:09
getting smaller and smaller, I started I realized too late in the game, I should
00:34:14
should be counting the whisies that he's drinking because it feels like as the shows go on, he's smoking less
00:34:20
cigarettes but drinking more whisies. >> Uh, two whisies for every cigarette. >> Episode 10 opens with the delivery of
00:34:28
one of BTK's letters to the newspaper. And as we've already said and as we know, BTK communicated with anyone who
00:34:37
was willing to help him make a name for himself. Holden and Tench go to Atlanta and this is where you see them play out
00:34:47
and plan a strategy to get Dver to talk. He's not admitted to anything. The most
00:34:54
he says is that he saw the girl at one point. And Tench and the local police come up with a really good lead on this.
00:35:02
This is oldfashioned detective work when Tench's character notices that the trees
00:35:08
near the what is believed to be the abduction site were recently trimmed. And so he thought, let's start looking
00:35:15
or at least talk to the persons that trimmed those trees because a a company was hired to come in and clear the trees
00:35:23
from the power lines, >> right? >> They're going to go to Atlanta to try to get this guy to confess cuz they're
00:35:30
pretty convinced that Dver did it. Dver passed a polygraph examination on the show. I couldn't sort out if that was
00:35:38
true, but I did find without being able to have the time to read them, some of the court transcripts are available
00:35:46
online for his trial or one of his trials. There were several mistrials, >> right?
00:35:52
>> Anyway, he does pass the polygram examination on the show. And we know and have said this for years here that true
00:35:59
psychopaths can and often do pass the polygraph examination. This seems to be their
00:36:09
suspicions here, right? Oh, he passed it. We still want to go talk to him. We don't think that you asked the right
00:36:14
questions. We don't think you asked them in the right way to get this guy to talk. They often can pass these
00:36:22
polygraph examinations simply due to their complete lack of remorse and other factors. That's not going to get past
00:36:29
our fictional agents here. They strategically place personal items from the victim around the interview room.
00:36:36
They scheduled the interview for nighttime. And it was the rock, just like his chapter, everyone has a rock. It was the
00:36:45
rock that was placed in the room that got Dver to break down. So Douglas gets the killer using practices and
00:36:54
techniques learned from studying and interviewing killers. Well, it's fascinating, too, because we we know and
00:37:02
the killer knows that rock is an instrument in the murder. So by placing it in the room, you're almost implying
00:37:10
to the killer that we know more than you think we know. >> Yeah. And that's the reaction they have
00:37:15
on the show is they tell they kind of just place the rock there and then Holden reveals it during the interview
00:37:25
but in a very nonchalant way. He doesn't he doesn't talk about the rock. He doesn't gesture towards it or anything.
00:37:32
And what we see the D character do on the show is he starts staring at that rock and he gets he's visibly nervous
00:37:40
immediately. and they let that linger for a while before pointing out that only the killer would know the
00:37:46
importance of that insignificance of that rock and you're having a reaction to it.
00:37:51
>> This is actually the same tactic and was used in a very famous movie, A Few Good
00:37:58
Men where they bring in the air traffic controllers. Now, they're not going to testify to anything, but Colonel Jessup
00:38:06
does not know that, so he has to give him the truth. As said on the show, this breaks down the character and leads to
00:38:14
the arrest. And after making the arrest, the officers, the lo local officers and
00:38:19
the agents, they go and celebrate at a cop bar. We see Bill Tench there. He burns a dog, has a couple of whisies.
00:38:28
Then later, we will see Bill Tench smoking his final cigarette of season 1. And then they slowly fade in the music
00:38:37
here. And I really love the way that they did this. We hear we then hear In the Light by Led Zeppelin from the 1975
00:38:47
Physical Graffiti album. >> They play that for a while. They they break to another scene. This is near the
00:38:55
end of season 1 where we have Holton Ford returning to Vakavville to see big Ed Keer. It's confusing because it Well,
00:39:05
maybe we should leave this part out. Maybe we don't need to talk in detail about this scene because it's a pretty
00:39:10
powerful scene here. But then they they go right back into the in the light by Led Zeppelin and we see the the Ford
00:39:17
character collapse in the hospital hallway. The final scene of series 1 is Dennis Raider BTK tossing pages and
00:39:30
pages depicting torture into a burn bin. [Music] Mine Hunter season 1. So much good music. One thing that you
00:39:47
know, I'll say I'm just a little disappointed in you that you didn't go through the cars.
00:39:54
If you are a car guy or a car girl, this series has some classics in there. I did
00:40:01
mention the car that they drive, which is the 1971 Plymouth Satellite. >> Yes. Awesome car, but also awesome
00:40:10
acting. So, if you would have to break down who your top three characters so far,
00:40:18
>> well, for me it would be the three main characters, Holden Ford, Bill Tench, and
00:40:23
Wendy Carr. Or or at least I'm calling them the main characters. Again, just like I said earlier, the way that they
00:40:31
work together in those scenes I thought was just look, one person can be brilliant on their own, but to get
00:40:38
something orchestrated like that together, >> that's true brilliance. That's that's
00:40:44
much more difficult to do than just one person being great at their craft. Who are the three for you? I I guess the Ed
00:40:50
Keer character is is played very well by by that actor as well. But uh for for me, I really like
00:40:58
seeing the three working together as a team. I think Ed is probably like the most quotable because he has a certain
00:41:05
draw to his voice and because he comes off so endearing and and also like his his voice is almost like round like his
00:41:16
voice is almost like a bubble but what he is saying is so sick and so sadistic you're it's almost masked by this unique
00:41:25
draw. >> Yes. And we do know that in real life, John Douglas almost died and he he he
00:41:32
landed in the hospital for a very long period of time, but it was not as depicted on the show where he has that
00:41:40
interaction with Ed Keer at the end in the the medical portion of the the state facility. But yes, the the Ed Kemper
00:41:51
character is is fantastic. And you're exactly right. The most quotable by far. And I would say second on the quote
00:42:00
scale would probably be Bill Tench for the times that Holden Ford is annoying him or or he does something that Tench
00:42:10
doesn't approve of. Well, Cameron Britain is uh Edmund Kemper. Fantastic job. But I think what surprised me is
00:42:20
you you learn about actors and Jonathan Gra, I think I'm pronouncing that correct. He's Holden Ford. And so I know
00:42:31
nothing about this guy. You're introduced to him within minutes. He's he's basically the main guy, him and
00:42:40
Bill Tench. But Jonathan is such a brilliant Broadway actor >> and and he's a singer and dancer and
00:42:50
that's really his wheelhouse. If you get a chance to see him on Broadway, make sure you do so. But it's also kind of
00:42:59
hard to watch him cuz the whole time all you can think about is that he's a detective. He works for the FBI. Why is
00:43:07
he singing and dancing? It makes no sense. And then anything that uh Hol Macallony,
00:43:14
he is absolutely brilliant in Shotller. He's a prisoner in Shotller, but the whole time you're like, why is he in
00:43:24
prison? He's a FBI agent. >> Oh, he must be undercover. Uh, so yeah, I just think the acting is brilliant.
00:43:34
The cinematography is brilliant. And one of the things, I think this is true, don't quote me on this, but when they
00:43:41
said, "Well, it's not coming back for season 3, four or five," you go, "Well, why not?" Well, it costs a lot to make.
00:43:50
>> And when we're talking with John Douglas, he talked about how how David Fincher would shoot scenes multiple
00:43:57
times. So, you go, "Okay, well, that that would cost some money." But what I heard also is a lot of the buildings and
00:44:05
the background to make it uh the time period correct and to make the visual aspect of the background correct. A lot
00:44:14
of that stuff is CGI and so obviously that would have cost a lot of money >> which and which should get easier as
00:44:24
they progress, right? with the season 2 is going to be less in the past, more recent,
00:44:33
>> right? >> And that you could get to the point I mean BTK wasn't apprehended till what
00:44:39
did I say earlier? 2005. Well, my argument though, um, somebody I told, "Hey, the background is CGI." And they
00:44:46
go, "No way. It looks too good." I go, "Yeah, but it's easier to do a still image CGI than it is to do a dinosaur."
00:44:59
So, yeah, cuz I'm not I'm not a huge fan of CGI. But if that's how they altered all
00:45:06
the backgrounds in Mine Hunter, then I guess maybe I need to re-evaluate my opinion.
00:45:11
>> Yeah, if that's how it was done, it was done to perfection. many books that we
00:45:15
reference here in this series. I would recommend Mineh Hunter by John Douglas and also The Cases That Haunt Us. I I
00:45:25
really enjoyed that book from John Douglas. >> Yeah, there's a I mean it's four true
00:45:31
crime garage episodes of talking about things to go watch, listen to, read, and all of them that were referenced here.
00:45:41
Very good stuff. If you'd like to support the garage, go to trueimegage.com, pick something up in the merch store,
00:45:48
and we'll be forever grateful to you. Thanks for listening to the Mine Hunter series, and until next week, be good, be
00:45:56
kind, and don't litter. [Music] [Applause] [Music]