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[Music] [Applause] % [Music] [Applause] welcome to True Crime garage wherever you are whatever you are doing thanks
00:01:45
for listening I'm your host Nick and with me as always is a guy that went asked how do you pay for all these
00:01:50
parking tickets he said Straight Cash homie he is of course the captain cuz Homie don't play that it's good to be
00:01:58
seen and it's good to see you thanks for listening thanks for telling a [Music] friends today we are drinking Diamond
00:02:09
Bear Brewing company's pale ale out of Little Rock Arkansas garage grade three and A2 bottle caps out of five you know
00:02:16
I've never been to Little Rock right but I was reading this Travel magazine recently saying Little Rock is a very
00:02:21
very cool City to travel to and if I were there Captain I would be drinking some Diamond bear pale ale because this
00:02:28
is earthy maltz versus Bright Beautiful hops that is highly drinkable they worked on perfecting this recipe for 2
00:02:35
years and Diamond bear was brought to us by these lovely garage guys and girls first up we have D and Jen who says we
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love you guys this is from out in the cornfields of Iowa and a big shout out to Shannon in El Paso Texas next we have
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Justine in upway Victoria Australia and all the way from Sweden we have anakah and we also have Marissa from San
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Fernando California and last but not least a big we like your jib to Marina over in England so thanks to everyone
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who helped to fill up the fridge for this week's show if you'd like to help us with our next Beer Run go to True
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Crim garage.com and click on the Donate button and for all old episodes or bonus
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episodes check out the website store at true Crim garage.com or in the iTunes Store all right Captain that's enough of
00:03:21
the business everybody gather around grab a chair grab a beer let's talk some true
00:03:28
crime [Music] 19-year-old Melissa wit disappeared from the Bowling World parking lot on
00:04:00
December 1st 1994 now her body was found about 6 weeks later on yesterday's show we were
00:04:09
able to go through some of the early leads in the investigation what they were tracking down and then the finding
00:04:16
of her body today we want to get into some of the suspects Ladonna had said that there were a lot of the level three
00:04:24
sex offenders in the area well there were also some very dangerous people that were probably in that area in
00:04:30
December of 1994 and we'll get into that today so let's dive into the two major suspects let's start with Travis Crouch
00:04:39
um absolutely now there there are quite a few suspects um some of them and I can't talk about but some of the most
00:04:44
promising suspects are what I'd like to touch on and there there's two of those and and the first is Travis Dale Crouch
00:04:52
and Travis is um an Arkansas native um he is currently in prison in Colorado we can touch touch on why but he um he's
00:05:02
from the Ozark area in fact he lived and worked at a church camp when he was a child um that was about a mile from
00:05:11
where Melissa wit's body was found and then later at the time of her disappearance and death even though he
00:05:19
might try to argue this point we've been able to prove that he was a carpenter at that same church camp
00:05:27
again that was about a mile from where her body was found in 1994 so what is Travis in prison for and how can we
00:05:35
connect him to Melissa wit's murder well Travis is current currently in prison in
00:05:40
Colorado for the rape of a young woman he met her at a mall he um talked with her in the parking lot
00:05:50
was able to I guess trick her um coer her to um give him a ride somewhere so they got in
00:05:59
the car together he then forced her to a remote Mountaintop out in the middle of
00:06:05
nowhere where he made her take off all of her clothes he um raped her and he then um
00:06:16
passed out due to a to an overdose of drugs at the time just a drug induced type situation and she knew based on you
00:06:26
know testimony that she gave to the court that's how I know this she knew was going to kill her so she fled from
00:06:32
the car completely Ned and ran for her life and she was able to escape so he's currently in prison um in Colorado for
00:06:41
that crime and he did not become um of any interest in the Melissa wit case until several years after um her body
00:06:53
was found some people came forward I can't give a lot of details about who they were for their own protection but
00:06:59
they came forward to law enforcement and said that they had suspected Travis and
00:07:05
um law enforcement tracked Travis down we do know that he was in the area although he claims that um you know he
00:07:12
had left you know the Ozark area well before you know Melissa was kidnapped and murdered but that was not the case
00:07:19
we have other witnesses to date that have given statements that he was indeed in town you know Travis was um heavily
00:07:27
into drugs and alcohol he had a history of violence against women a long history of violence against women
00:07:36
I've done a lot of investigative work into Travis's life talking to a lot of people that he knew and that he was
00:07:43
involved with and he was Notorious for raping women at gunpoint knife Point um he got a lot he got away with a lot of
00:07:52
different crimes but just you know overall violence but you know what's interesting about him him is that he
00:07:59
committed a fairly similar crime you know the girl was taken to a remote location where she was you know raped
00:08:06
and she escaped and she was totally nude and you know I shared with you earlier you know some of my theory about what
00:08:12
could have happened with Melissa and that kind of lines up um you know he knew the area very well he lived and
00:08:19
worked a mile away from her body was you know where her body was found and then you know we were later able to uncover
00:08:27
from you know different witnesses that came forward that he actually participated in some illegal activities
00:08:33
in that very area where Melissa's body was found now you said that he's committed some illegal activity in that
00:08:39
area where her body was found but I'm guessing with his well-known drug use that we're talking about dealing drugs
00:08:47
and purchasing drugs in that area you're correct um not only were there drug dealings but he actually grew marijuana
00:08:55
plants near that very rock where Melissa's body was found so you know that area meant something to
00:09:02
him and he had a violent history a violent history against women he lied originally about his whereabouts um when
00:09:09
Melissa went missing and um was murdered so yeah it he's he's definitely a suspect that you know law enforcement
00:09:19
cannot rule him out he does not cooperate he hasn't cooperated with our team you know we've reached out to
00:09:25
family and friends of his and so we've done a lot of work in looking at Travis Crouch and he he he will remain a number
00:09:34
one suspect until he either you know decides to cooperate or we can find the evidence to prove that he did indeed
00:09:42
kill Melissa wet so if Travis did this this would be a stranger on Stranger type crime you know quite possibly I
00:09:51
mean he was from that area um he was living in that area it's possible that you know he he had ran into her at the
00:09:58
mall you know just to put it in even more context when he um you know met the girl
00:10:06
that he raped on that remote Mountaintop in Colorado he met her at a mall and the
00:10:11
day Melissa went went missing she had lunch at the local mall with her friend we know that that malls were one of
00:10:18
Travis's favorite spots I think it's feasible to think that maybe he ran across Melissa that day maybe they had a
00:10:25
conversation maybe he followed her that's that's completely plausible thing that could have happened okay time out
00:10:33
here Captain because Ladonna presents a an interesting observation here that potentially Travis could have been
00:10:42
watching at the mall yeah and spotted Melissa there I mean what better place if if you have if you're a predator and
00:10:50
you have a type that you're you're hunting yeah um what better place to go to if you're looking for someone you
00:10:56
know 18 19y old 20-year-old attractive young woman you go to the you go to the mall and maybe not so much even just a
00:11:05
type but this is this is your Mo you know we've seen this multiple times in in serial killers or serial rapists
00:11:13
where they kind of come up with a plan uh their job then becomes to execute that plan over and over and to get
00:11:21
better at it and we already know that he likes to uh pick up his prey from the mall and it's pretty simple too because
00:11:28
if you if you go to the mall mhm you find somebody that you like you follow them if they end up in a situation where
00:11:36
they could be easily compromised right you abduct them and you've a achieved your mission if not if that situation
00:11:45
never arises you just go back to the mall the next week and repeat and this is something that if this was Travis and
00:11:53
if this is hiso you know this wasn't the first day that he went to the mall and this happened this is something he
00:11:59
probably did time and time again until he found a person that that he thought he could easily overcome well and think
00:12:08
about how many times we see it with with other Killers again where it's you're developing so you know somebody like um
00:12:17
uh Ted bunny will be a peeping Tom first you know and so they're developing so he
00:12:22
could have just been going to the mall for a while you know just as a let's say as a kid and and he just likeed going
00:12:29
there and following a girl around and that became okay now I want to follow her outside of the mall now you know
00:12:36
what I mean uh and it seems like he also needed to be on drugs during this time so um you kind of see that too with
00:12:44
somebody like dmer for example yeah um needed to be or wanted to be um I guess there could be a debate there the
00:12:53
situation though for me would be if this was Travis and if where he first encountered was in fact the mall we have
00:13:01
to keep in mind that that he would have been not easily detected because we don't see any scenario where Melissa
00:13:10
appears to be on guard for the rest of the day she was not at the mall alone you know and we we've interviewed that
00:13:16
person investigators have interviewed that person later they don't give any clues any leads as to that aspect um so
00:13:23
this person would have been where Travis seems to have been very out of control in his attack in Colorado and you're
00:13:32
you're right that's because of the drug use MH um whoever If This Were was hiso and he was at the mall that day he was
00:13:39
in control at that time um he he would not have stood out for any reason he necessarily didn't actually have to meet
00:13:46
her you know it could have just been he she caught his eye and he just kind of followed her at a distance okay Lonna
00:13:55
that's the thing that you have to ask yourself is this just pure coincidence that this guy that has picked up
00:14:01
followed a girl from a mall before and our victim here Melissa happened to be at the mall earlier that day right he
00:14:08
also has ties to the location where her body is eventually found the big question I have is you
00:14:16
know we know he's capable of rape because that's what he's been convicted of in Colorado what I need to be convinced of
00:14:23
is how are why are we so convinced he's capable of murder because it's alleged that he's committed multiple rapes at
00:14:32
gunpoint before what made that attack in Colorado different from the previous attacks yeah and how do we know that he
00:14:39
was going to kill his victim in Colorado well I mean that's based on her testimony so the only reason she got
00:14:47
away from him is because he was also drinking and doing drugs while he held her in this car I mean he was raping her
00:14:53
repeatedly it was a violent attack but he passed out and she was so certain that he was going to kill her when he
00:15:01
woke up that instead of trying to put her clothes on or even take them with her she took off completely nuded she
00:15:08
knew she couldn't waste any time to get away from him that's her testimony she escaped with her life she
00:15:16
was certain he was going to kill her and the attack was just so brutal and violent and as far as the other rapes
00:15:24
now those are things that he was never charged for now these are these are rapes that occurred um to women who
00:15:34
did not come forward to law enforcement for a variety of reasons perhaps um you know some examples and I I'm I'm talking
00:15:43
in a little bit vager terms because some of these women that I've been in touch with I need to protect them because he
00:15:50
will be paroled at some point and I want to be certain that if Travis Crouch hears this that he he is able to go
00:15:59
after the particular people that I have spoken to but you know these were women that were involved in some things that
00:16:04
were um less than desirable doesn't mean that they deserve what happened to them
00:16:09
and that's not what I'm implying but those were their words that's what they told me and that's why they didn't go to
00:16:14
law enforcement and you know he um Travis you know he being Travis was involved in
00:16:21
a biker gang and some other activities that were just very violent I mean he tried to kill a man in one state serve
00:16:28
some time there you know he he's been arrested pretty much in every state that he's ever been in South Carolina
00:16:35
Louisiana um Colorado Arkansas for you know anything from theft to trying to burn things down to you know stabbing
00:16:43
people but he you know Travis has been described as someone that has no care at all for life it it doesn't
00:16:52
matter to him I mean he's literally walked up to people and just and stabbed them in a bar he he he just he doesn't
00:16:59
care um you know he wasn't a half badl looking guy all those years ago I mean I've seen some photos of him so it's
00:17:06
easy for me to believe that a young girl might talk to him at first and be flattered and not realize you know what
00:17:13
they were dealing with but he's he's a dangerous predator and I hope that he did not get paroled but it's looking
00:17:19
like um parole is quite possible for him in about eight years do we have any eyewitnesses that would put Travis in
00:17:26
the area back in December of 1994 um we do we have people that that continue to say that he was in the area
00:17:34
we can't place where he was for sure um we know that he was arrested in in New Orleans on New Year's Eve or day I'm not
00:17:43
really sure how that worked out if it happened at midnight or 12:01 am you know where that but but that's the next
00:17:50
arrest that he had but you know we we have pretty reliable sources that have come forward all these years later that
00:17:58
say oh no you know Travis was here and they believed that um they that he took off to
00:18:05
Louisiana shortly after um the body was found because he was Afra afraid he was going to be blamed is is what some of
00:18:13
these sources have told us but as far as you know being able to definitely prove
00:18:18
that you know beyond A Reasonable Doubt no we can't but you know enough people have come forward to kind of um paint a
00:18:26
picture for us that we're very confident that Travis was here we're very confident that he has people that were
00:18:32
close to him you know relatives that have um not told the truth because they want to protect
00:18:39
Travis and you know there's only one reason why he would lie and say no I I was I'd already taken off to Louisiana
00:18:49
but he was really here because he was possibly involved in this crime he has something to hide for sure but he he has
00:18:56
not responded to any of my requests for interview and he has not responded to any of my letters in prison I have
00:19:02
corresponded with um his mother and a sister of his but you know we've not had any real cooperation so you say that you
00:19:11
know that Travis was arrested in Louisiana on either New Year's Eve or New Year's day but she wasn't found
00:19:18
until the 13th fill me in here are we saying that that after he was arrested that he was
00:19:24
released and potentially came back to Arkansas he was released after that arrest and he started traveling We
00:19:32
Believe back through this area as he made his way to to meet with some friends to possibly go on to his next
00:19:39
adventure and I'm not sure if he went to South Carolina first or he went straight
00:19:44
to Colorado it's really difficult to track his movements because you have to remember it's two decades later and
00:19:50
you're dealing with people that don't really want to cooperate so um he wasn't held very long in Louisiana maybe a day
00:19:58
for that arrest from what I recall so you know it doesn't mean that he came back and he was the one that moved the
00:20:05
body it's possible well let's think about this that someone that was close to him knew that he had killed Melissa
00:20:12
wit and perhaps they were overcome with guilt and they moved the body I mean any
00:20:17
anything like that is possible you know I I can't say for sure I can't say for sure that Travis crops KT Mor a WT but
00:20:24
he's an awfully good suspect that has lied repeatedly has violent history and refuses to cooperate so I mean it seems
00:20:32
to me that he would want to help rule himself out but he has no desire to do that well with this drug use too I mean
00:20:39
you you have to wonder if he even knows that he did the crime possible possible my guess would be if he spotted her at
00:20:47
the mall he has some good recollection of what took place leading up to getting her in his vehicle meaning he was
00:20:55
probably sober at some point yeah and he would recognize her face on the the news
00:21:01
right but I guess the thought here is that maybe what's more likely is that because of his intense drug use day
00:21:09
after day and alcohol use and a combination of both that he probably got so intoxicated or high one day that he
00:21:17
told somebody either where Melissa was where her body was or what he had done yes that's my thought cuz he was he was
00:21:25
heavily into drugs heavily into drugs the only thing that kept him from from remaining that kind of a drug addict is
00:21:33
this the stin that he's doing in prison for the rape of that girl in Colorado I mean Travis Travis was just walking
00:21:46
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00:23:39
before we get back to Ladonna with her second suspect in the Melissa wit murder case the first suspect Travis Crouch it
00:23:46
seems to me that the story the theory would be this that he would have gone to the mall looking for a potential victim
00:23:53
that day came across Melissa followed her for a portion of that day until he saw his opportunity with her getting out
00:24:01
of her vehicle in the in the parking lot at the bowling alley that's a pretty big
00:24:06
time Gap too approaches her as the Ladon said that this Travis may be an attractive young man that she may not
00:24:14
have run off screaming from immediately right he attacks her forces her into his
00:24:19
vehicle dumps her in a location takes her to a location that he knows well murders her there leaves the body there
00:24:27
and then at some point in some kind of uh stuper some some intoxicated stuper he tells somebody that he knows someone
00:24:36
close to him either where she's located or what he has done yeah so either he moves the body or somebody that he told
00:24:44
possibly moves the body yeah um potentially he could have moved the body because he told somebody where it was
00:24:51
but you would think that if if the whole point was concealing the body you would
00:24:54
move it to a location that would conceal it further rather than putting it in a place where
00:25:00
it would be found right but I think the theory on this is that uh well in his drunken stuper or drug State maybe he
00:25:11
did this and didn't mean to didn't mean to bring her out into the open or again if he told somebody that their guilt got
00:25:20
to him and figured hey if I move the body somebody will find it but I'm with Lonna I think there's no coincidence
00:25:26
that there happens to be this pH call where somebody seems to be describing Melissa wit and then the next day the
00:25:33
body's found I don't think that's any coincidence at all well let's get into the second suspect well you know Larry
00:25:41
singen um was arrested in 1999 um for the murder of Melissa trod Melissa trod was a
00:25:52
19-year-old Community College Student in Montgomery County Texas she met met Larry Swearingen by chance in
00:26:01
a you know it's like a convenience store SL pizza parlor type parking area where
00:26:07
their conversation um was videotaped by a security camera they talked for two hours on December 6 in this parking lot
00:26:15
just in this little area on the outskirts of Lake Conroe in Texas okay so we know that he came across her we
00:26:22
know he was very intrigued by Melissa Trotter and according to testimony in in the Melissa TR murder trial he
00:26:31
went back to work the next day and told some of his fellow electricians that he had met this really cute girl and that
00:26:37
she was going to meet him for lunch that day well Melissa Trotter stood him up didn't show up for lunch and these same
00:26:45
Witnesses told the court in the murder trial that um when she stood him up that he became very angry eerily angry so
00:26:55
that was the seventh we know that Witness says saw Larry Swearingen on the campus of the community college in
00:27:02
mcgomery County Texas on December 8th that he sat and talked with Melissa and that they left together they got in his
00:27:09
vehicle Melissa troter was never seen again never seen again she was found roughly you know 30 40 days later in the
00:27:20
Sam Houston National Forest and she had been strangled she had been um sexually assaulted and
00:27:26
strangled how long until they make an arrest on Larry swaringen you know he he was arrested fairly quickly you know
00:27:34
they were able to determine really quickly that he knew Melissa trer they were able to pull that um security
00:27:41
camera footage they were able to get you know some information about the things that he was saying about Melissa troter
00:27:49
and they were really able to tie the pieces together pretty quickly his wife at the time would later testify that
00:27:55
when she came home to their trailer that evening that the trailer was in a disarray you know he had brought Melissa
00:28:01
Trotter back to the trailer that's where it's believed that she most likely spurned his sexual advances and he then
00:28:08
raped her and strangled her with a section of his wife's panty hose and then loaded her up and dumped her body
00:28:13
in the Sam Houston National Forest of course he denies it what evidence do we have against Larry swaringen in this
00:28:21
case and we know that he has disputed that he was at work at the time that Melissa trod disappeared well um there's
00:28:28
a lot of evidence there's a it's what's described as a mountain of evidence against Larry swearington and I would
00:28:33
agree with that as I have the court transcripts the testimony against Larry Swearingen in the Melissa troter trial
00:28:40
so I've taken about a year and a half to do a case study on Larry Swearingen he killed Melissa trer there's no doubt but
00:28:47
as far as evidence there was hair and fiber evidence found in his truck that belonged to Melissa trod There Was You
00:28:55
Know fiber evidence fiber evidence on her body that belonged to Larry Swearingen um you know he had a cell
00:29:03
phone at the time and it pinged right around the area where um he would had to had to have driven through
00:29:10
to dump her body in the Sam Houston National Forest you know her pack of cigarettes were left behind in the
00:29:17
trailer that um lived where Larry Swearingen lived later they were able to find the other section of panty hose
00:29:25
that was used you know he tore it AP to strangle Melissa in a trash can at Larry sington house paperwork that
00:29:32
belonged to Melissa Trotter um was found all in this area near where Larry swearington family lived it was all
00:29:41
found strung strung out across the street so it's almost like it had been blown out of a trash can or some kind of
00:29:47
some kind of area where um Larry had hidden it so that's just a little bit of the evidence
00:29:54
that is against Larry Swearingen um of course he and his defense team try to paint a picture that he had been at work
00:30:00
that he had picked his grandmother up that you know he and Melissa troter were just great friends but you have to keep
00:30:06
in mind he had only met Melissa troter two days prior there wasn't a great friendship with Melissa Trotter you know
00:30:15
there are a lot of of interviews with Larry Swearingen out there um in different
00:30:22
forms of media about this case and if you put them all together he never tells the same story um about Melissa troter
00:30:29
it always changes you know one one story is that they had a consensual sexual relationship for weeks well that's not
00:30:36
possible he only knew her for two days you know that they were great friends and they spent a lot of time together
00:30:42
well that's not true he only knew her for two days and she stood them up the next day after they met I mean it's it's
00:30:48
a lot of um you know smoking mirrors with Larry sing and and his defense team to try to create doubt in the minds of
00:30:58
the general public that he did not kill Melissa trod but the the fact is is he did Kill Melissa trod there's just no
00:31:05
two ways about it were you able to speak with his ex-wife he has many Ex-Wives and I have spoken to two of them they um
00:31:14
have been very very Cooperative with me these two particularly and I I'd prefer not to use their names but they these
00:31:23
two wives have have shared with me how Larry tried to strangle both of them in Anger that he was violent he was
00:31:31
volatile and they firmly believe that he killed not only Melissa Trotter but that
00:31:37
he also killed Melissa wit and they believe that he has killed other women and I I'm in agreement I believe that
00:31:43
Larry Swearingen is a serial killer before we get into that let's get into Larry's background it sounds to me like
00:31:51
he had traveled around a lot he was some kind of contractor or an electrician is
00:31:56
that Cor correct you're correct he um traveled as a journeyman electrician he most often traveled with his stepfather
00:32:04
Joe Martinez and um they traveled all across the Eastern United States all kinds of
00:32:10
areas you know he's being looked at by law enforcement in many different locations where there were young women
00:32:16
found strangled he's a prime suspect in more than just these two cases but what about his background he had been in a
00:32:23
lot of trouble in school he had broken into um you know his own high school and stolen some things he he was in trouble
00:32:32
quite a bit for selling cars you know breaking entering into buildings you know fighting just a variety of things I
00:32:39
mean just a career criminal is how I would describe Larry Swearingen the funny thing here Captain when we spoke
00:32:46
with Ladonna and we got into all this conversation about Larry Swearingen being a a key individual to look at as a
00:32:54
suspect in the Melissa wit murder in Abduction the funny thing was we were speaking with her on the date that Larry
00:33:02
swaringen was supposed to have been executed we always have little weird serendipitous things happen like that
00:33:09
yeah he was supposed to have been executed on November 16th and we actually it was actually
00:33:16
push pushed back before we had the conversation with her um however it was just kind of ironic that we were
00:33:22
speaking with her about him on the very day that he was supposed to have been executed so let's listen in as we get
00:33:28
some better information on to why are they pushing back his execution they continueed to do that in the beginning
00:33:35
they were pushing it back maybe a year and then they shortened it to the point where they're pushing it back just a
00:33:41
couple of months if we continue what they've been doing he was supposed to be executed in September of this year then
00:33:48
later in November so I'm guessing maybe they'll finally kill this guy in January
00:33:53
or February of next year but let's listen into why the hold up is it because he's being looked at as a
00:34:00
suspect in other cases other murder cases or is it just simply the appeals process it so the hold up in his
00:34:09
execution has nothing to do with the other cases so I will say this is that um Larry Swearingen was able to look
00:34:16
into a phenomenal defense team I mean he has the Innocence Project backing him now in my opinion and it's my opinion
00:34:27
only the Innocence Project took him on because they wanted to see some of the laws change in Texas and that did happen
00:34:35
because they took on his case right you know some the way they handle DNA in cases so that was a win for
00:34:41
them but they've worked very hard to um create this doubt that Larry Swearingen is guilty and it's a frustrating point
00:34:53
for me personally because you know as I mentioned there is a mountain of evidence that he killed Melissa troter
00:34:59
and it's almost offensive to me that anyone would go to these links to defend this man there the Crux of their
00:35:05
argument is this they wanted additional DNA testing and that was part of the law
00:35:09
change that they had made it just didn't apply to Larry swearington case but they wanted additional DNA
00:35:16
testing um on some things that were found on U Melissa Trotter's body uh evidence under her fingernails and I
00:35:25
think evidence on the panty hose and some things like that but let me explain to you why that is absolutely afonine
00:35:32
you know the jury was presented with this information the jury knew going in to this case that there was a full DNA
00:35:40
profile of an of a a know unknown male found under Melissa Trotter's fingernails so they knew that the the
00:35:49
jury saw that they also knew that there was a full DNA profile found on some other evidence and you know and there as
00:35:58
there would be the panty hose that he used to strangle Melissa troter belonged to his wife okay so there was an
00:36:04
explanation for these things so the jury knew all this and they convicted him anyway because of all of the other
00:36:13
evidence but you know of course Melissa Trotter had another DNA profile under her fingernails she had been at school
00:36:21
that day she had done all kinds of things the day before I mean didn't meet up with Larry until noon that day it's
00:36:31
absolutely feasible that there would be another DNA profile I would be surprised
00:36:36
if there wouldn't be but you know that has just been the Crux of their argument and they just Hammer that hammer at home
00:36:43
in the media if i s like I'm frustrated about it I am because a 19-year-old girl
00:36:48
was killed and they're dismissing the mountain of evidence because they want to make an argument on something that
00:36:54
the jury already looked at and said okay I understand that it's been explained we still believe that he
00:37:01
killed Melissa Trotter based on all these other things but you know so Larry has built a career on death row of being
00:37:09
able to weasel out of these executions because they keep filing motions that keep getting struck down by the higher
00:37:17
courts but this latest situation with the the delay of his execution had had to do with two
00:37:25
different things one being that um unfortunately the paperwork was filed incorrectly in Texas
00:37:33
with the wrong office and that's just an unfortunate event that happened so that
00:37:39
delayed his execution and then you've got a couple that with this this greatest and latest Scandal of
00:37:48
Larry saring Jen where he has been working with another death row inmate for who knows how long and had talked
00:37:56
this death rower into admitting at the midnight hour before his own execution that he was the
00:38:04
one that had killed Melissa trod fortunately this guy and his name is Anthony Shore had some conscience
00:38:13
before it all went down and he admitted to officials what was happening and so that delayed Anthony Shore's execution
00:38:21
but it's also then created this huge media circus around Larry swearing J I mean it's just one more way for Larry to
00:38:30
delay his execution and in his mind to try to create some kind of doubt where there is no doubt he killed Melissa
00:38:38
Trotter so basically Larry got this other gigantic pile of dog dookie to confess to the murder of Melissa Trotter
00:38:49
and that actually postpone both of their executions mhm I mean you know the the justice system should
00:38:59
go hey we see what's going on here right MH they it should be pretty simple well
00:39:04
I mean you know Anthony Shore was known as Houston tourniquet killer so he killed U many girls in the same style
00:39:13
and fashion as of Melissa trod or Melissa wit you know they they were strangled but so he he's also believed
00:39:24
to have um maybe some sort of um head trauma I I don't know a lot about Anthony Shore but I do know this I do
00:39:32
know that Larry has been working that angle for many many years because he's got some people that have been blogging
00:39:38
for years about um how there's no way possible that it was Larry swearington that killed Melissa Trotter and you know
00:39:47
they put out the theory that it was Anthony Shore so this has been something that he's planning for a very long time
00:39:52
but Anthony um you know has admitted to the things that he has done and I think that he just he just got suckered by
00:40:04
another death row inmate I think that's what happened I think that you know maybe there was a part of him that
00:40:10
believed you know Larry that he didn't kill Melissa troter so he was willing to take that rrap for him I I don't know
00:40:16
what kind of deal that they cut I really don't but you know Larry singen is very
00:40:22
manipulative he's described as someone who's very Charming and he's a liar and I think that Anthony fell for
00:40:31
that you know I don't know Anthony Shore personally but I would I would think that
00:40:36
maybe maybe he just he had a bat of conscience right before and couldn't follow through with it maybe something
00:40:43
told him that that was wrong that if he went through with this they would be letting a killer out on the streets
00:40:49
because if they did Larry will just kill again there's no doubt in my mind about
00:40:55
that it's hard to understand or to know what kind of relationship those two men have I mean they're both on death row
00:41:02
because they killed young girls so you know the caliber of these people that we're talking about is not the greatest
00:41:09
so let's get into the connection between Larry SAR Engen and our victim Melissa wit I believe the way that the story
00:41:16
goes is that he was ultimately connected to this case this cold case because of a
00:41:21
piece of paper or some type of note that was found in his jail cell you're correct what happened is that
00:41:28
authorities in Texas contacted the detective at the time which is detective Rider in Fort Smith and said I don't
00:41:35
know if you're aware of who Larry Swearingen is but we found a notebook in a Cell turnover and it had your
00:41:43
name um detective JC Ryder and it had Melissa wit's name and it had December 1st 1994 written down and that's really
00:41:51
how Larry swearington came to the Forefront of the minds of of Fort Smith police and that's when they started
00:41:58
looking into Larry swearington and that's when it really started becoming apparent that it's quite possible that
00:42:05
he killed Melissa wit that he could be involved and that he had to be looked at closer all right so with the Melissa wit
00:42:11
case Larry would have had have been working in the area or had family in this area well he does have family in
00:42:18
Arkansas um they live in Clinton Arkansas which is you know roughly a couple hours away from Fort Smith um we
00:42:25
do know that he was there in Clinton Arkansas just days before Melissa wit was killed because law enforcement was
00:42:33
able to track down a receipt where he bought a car part in Clinton Arkansas so we know it was in the area I know I
00:42:39
can't put him back in Texas until mid December late December so he had plenty of time to kill Melissa witch I believe
00:42:50
it's quite possible that he was working in the area and law enforcement did look
00:42:55
at that that angle however at the time and there was so little to go on they didn't know that he was just a
00:43:02
journeyman electrician they didn't realize that he would be working under the license of Joe Martinez so when they
00:43:08
did their search on anybody that had filled out a license or was working in you know the greater Fort Smith area
00:43:16
they looked under the name Larry swearington and so we're trying to recreate that search now two decades
00:43:22
later it's really difficult if the records even exist but we know he was here we've got an an
00:43:28
ex-wife that can place him here U and she's pretty confident that he killed Melissa wet but I we have to have more
00:43:35
than that before he could even be charged and that's something that we're looking at we've been in touch with a
00:43:40
retired detective um one of the original detectives in the troter case who tells
00:43:45
us that they did find a receipt on swearing Jen that that that was in the from the Fort Smith area in
00:43:55
December of 94 that first week of December of 94 and they assure me they believe that he killed Melissa wit so
00:44:04
I'm trying desperately to find that receipt are you able to say what one of the Ex-Wives said to you regarding why
00:44:13
she firmly believes that Larry killed Melissa wit um she has the suspicion for a couple of different reasons and and
00:44:21
one is that he um was very abusive to her and he had actually violently raped her choked her until she
00:44:29
blacked out and dumped her in the woods he thought she was dead and so you know in her mind this is something he's very
00:44:35
capable of doing but also she at the time that they were together she found quite a few women's IDs on him and he
00:44:45
couldn't explain it he took him away from her and he dumped him in the woods now does she remember if one of those
00:44:51
belonged to Melissa Wht no but that that really set off my radar have you been able to talk with Larry I have
00:45:00
corresponded with Larry swearington several times um he's not a fan of Lonna Humphrey and I'm not a fan of Larry and
00:45:08
he has actually had his legal team serve me with I think I'm at my fourth season
00:45:13
assist refuses to cooperate you know will not talk about Melissa wit at all not at all denies that he killed Melissa
00:45:22
Trotter and in my last correspondence with him you know I just pointed out hey you have family in Arkansas when they
00:45:28
were interviewed they said that you used to camp and and hike in that very area where Melissa's body was found is that
00:45:36
true you know he doesn't respond you know I remind him both girls were named Melissa they were the same age same kind
00:45:43
of physical appearance you know both of their bodies were dumped in the National
00:45:47
Forest 50 miles from the side of the abduction both girls were abducted in the same week exactly four years apart
00:45:55
if that doesn't you know ring a bell of a serial killer I don't know what does but what you know both girls were
00:46:02
strangled and then and and this is the the Clincher for me Melissa wit had a watch stolen from her her
00:46:10
murderer stole it it was a Mickey Mouse watch Melissa Trotter's watch was stolen
00:46:16
from her it was a Mickey Mouse watch her killer stole it that was my favorite part of the entire interview uh right
00:46:22
there and I'll tell you why because you have a Mickey watch if uh if anybody followed my good
00:46:31
instruction many many months ago and picked up one of our recommended reading books this was the uh called a good
00:46:38
marriage by Stephen King it's not a true story it's a fictional story nobody listens to you if anybody picked that up
00:46:44
they know why that I found that part so interesting when when she says and this is all hearsay by the way we have to
00:46:52
throw that in there because it's it's a telling from one person to another then to us we don't know if this is in fact
00:46:57
true here stay smear stay the portion where she said that the wife one of his Ex-Wives of Larry found several driver's
00:47:06
license in their home from young women and when confronted about it he has no answer he confiscates them and
00:47:15
then he supposedly dumps them or or discards of them in the woods somewhere right that's exactly what happened in a
00:47:24
good marriage the husband is away on work she's looking the wife is looking for something in the garage and she
00:47:32
comes across a little hidey-hole and inside there's several driver's license of girls that had gone missing in the
00:47:40
surrounding states and it's exactly like a case that we covered which one it happened in an
00:47:47
addict not the garage and a dark past mhm yeah that's right and the addict they Felix Veil case the yeah and the I
00:47:56
think the people that were running off of him I believe found the box yeah they found some some old items of one of his
00:48:04
very likely victims the thing that we should we should you know I want to mention this because we are talking
00:48:10
about Stephen King we're talking about storytellers you know the the Mickey Mouse watch the two victims that happen
00:48:17
to be named Melissa they're the same age they're abducted in the same week four years apart yeah of that seems a little
00:48:26
Storyteller is you know it seems a little icing on the cake I don't know that that a killer that's that's
00:48:34
attacking two women that he would have you know there's a very likely situation that if Larry did Kill both of these
00:48:42
melissas that he likely would not have known that's not why he killed them it's not like he's driving around looking for
00:48:50
the next Melissa I agree with you but we do have um we do have evidence that he met the first Melissa if he met Melissa
00:48:59
with the second Melissa it's a tricky story because he was convicted of of Melissa Trotter's case but that was
00:49:05
actually after uh Melissa witz right so we have evidence that he met Melissa trout beforehand so I'm guessing that if
00:49:14
if this is a victim you know his emo would kind of suggest that he would have met Melissa with prior to the the attack
00:49:23
possibly could have had some kind of inter action with her in advance but I think the thing that we're kind of
00:49:28
losing track of here in this story is what really is tying Larry swear engine to this case keep in mind her name is
00:49:38
found written Melissa wit's name is found written in a notebook of his as well as you and I were talking about
00:49:44
this as well as the detective yeah slow down a little bit so he's he's in a different state he's in another state
00:49:51
this is like a decade later death row yeah and and they find I mean they find her name and not just her name but the
00:50:00
detective's name I mean I just keep going back to the fact that there's no reason for him to
00:50:06
have her name written on any of his property at all yeah it's pretty um that's pretty mindblowing so fill us in
00:50:14
on the current state of Melissa wit's case you know the case is more active now than it has been in years and um you
00:50:24
know we work daily with law enforcement and you know I just talked to the you know the detective this morning and you
00:50:32
know they allow us our team to run a tip line and that tip Line's pretty active and then we share that information on
00:50:40
immediately with law enforcement and you know they're they're following up on tips all the time and I do believe it's
00:50:47
just a matter of time right now my focus is excuse me you know solely on trying to get Larry Swearingen ruled in or
00:50:55
rolled out before he's executed once he's executed we may never know all right and so that documentary
00:51:10
uh might come out this spring but they're still negotiating that so once we know something we'll let you know
00:51:17
well and if you want to find out the release date they will be making updates regarding that on the website which is
00:51:25
who killed Missy wit.com or their Facebook page who killed Missy wit the thing that I'm interested in seeing here
00:51:32
Captain is what more information can we find out in the documentary because I think that even even though as
00:51:39
forthcoming as Lonna was and I so appreciate her time with us and her keeping her efforts and all of her
00:51:48
energy working on this cold case because I don't know if there's that everybody picked up on this but during the course
00:51:56
of that interview one thing that we learned is that unfortunately both Melissa wit's parents have passed away
00:52:02
since she was killed so they didn't get to see Justice for their daughter and sometimes you wonder you know we cover a
00:52:09
lot of these old cold cases sometimes you wonder that when the relatives of these people start to pass away and once
00:52:18
they start to fade into memory does the case itself fall Fade Into memory as well is there anybody out there working
00:52:25
the case does anybody still care and it's great to see somebody like Ladonna focusing her efforts on this old Cold
00:52:34
Case working on a documentary we've seen movement on cases because of documentaries and because of podcast so
00:52:42
it's very interesting to see what's there I think I was trying to read between the lines there I think there's
00:52:47
some more information that that will be released when that documentary comes out
00:52:52
and I also want to include if anybody wants to has heard this case and has some information that they can offer you
00:52:59
can submit tips at the who killed Missy wit.com website there's instructions there on how to do so or there's a phone
00:53:06
number that you can call to submit a tip and that's 479221 9393 all right do we have any
00:53:14
recommended reading for the week we do this week we're recommending convenient suspect and the strange thing here
00:53:20
little coincidence tie into what we covered this week and last week it just so happened we had two cases back to
00:53:26
back we didn't plan this that happened to take place in December of 1994 we wanted to cover those well we did with
00:53:33
dwan Sims last week and the Melissa wit this week well that inspired me to come up with this recommended reading it's
00:53:40
from a cold case from December back in 1994 that took place in Pennsylvania and I shouldn't say a cold
00:53:47
case because this one has been technically solved as far as the books are concerned but you can tell by the
00:53:54
title convenience sus suspect there's a lot of people out there that wonder if they have the right suspect so if you're
00:53:59
interested in this pick up convenient suspect a double murder a flawed investigation in the railroading of an
00:54:06
innocent woman and this is by Tammy Maul and you can find all of our recommended
00:54:10
reading on our website true Crim garage.com and just click on the recommended page yeah and also at true
00:54:16
Crim garage.com we have our blog there as well as our store page so check all of that good stuff out all right
00:54:23
everybody thank you for listening thank you for telling a friend yeah thanks for
00:54:27
sharing on social media be good be kind and don't [Music] [Applause] litter [Music]
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