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[Music] 13-year-old Abby Williams and 14-year-old Libby German disappeared in 2017 near their hometown of Deli Indiana
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their bodies were found the following day near a hiking trail the accused killer Richard Allen has pleaded not
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guilty Ian Lee has the story for a fourth day in Indiana jury will work to decide the fate of Richard Allen the
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52-year-old is accused of murdering 13-year-old Abby Williams and 14-year-old Libby German during an
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afternoon hike in February of 2017 a solid suspect eluded authorities for years despite multiple sketches and this
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grainy video recorded on one of the girls phones John topkins is an Indianapolis defense lawyer who has
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followed the case since the beginning it's a huge task for this jury in deliberations because there are for
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instance over 300 State exhibits among those exhibits confessions that the prosecution says Allen repeatedly made
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their main message was that Mr Allen confessed and included facts that would only have been known to someone at the
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scene in some of those confessions the defense challenged that argument by claiming the prison psychologist who
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Allan confessed to was a true crime fan herself she was talking to Mr Allen about things that she heard on podcasts
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and also Mr Allen was provided copies of the discovery which had some of those facts as well lawyers for Allen pointed
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out that no fingerprints DNA or forensic evidence links Allen to the murder scene
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and that for more than 5 years after the teens were killed he continued working at a nearby pharmacy during closing
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arguments last Thursday attorney Bradley Rosie told the jury he had every chance
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to run but did not because he didn't do it the Highlight from the prosecution's argument I think was trying to tie in
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the video and the identity of Mr Allen and convince the jurors that the person that they see as the bridge guy is
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actually Mr Allen and they did that through similar clothing um and other things if found guilty Allan faces 130
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years in prison for CBS mornings Ian Lee Deli [Music] Indiana the best that they can do in
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this case is to shrink it down to one person and that one person they're saying is Richard Allen the prosecution
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saying he is Bridge guy and Bridge guy killed the girls which going back to the what I was saying about the uh we've had
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all this time to look at this case and then we've had all this lead up and build up to the trial and now we've had
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several weeks of trial and I know and I understand that murder is not supposed to make sense to us regular people and I
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also understand that people do things that they didn't plan to do but the murders themselves here in this
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situation even after learning more still make absolute zero sense to me I the The
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Narrative is that he went to the trail system we we regularly refer to this as a park because it's it's very similar to
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a park like setting so forgive us we know it's not an actual Park but so he goes to this area to this park with the
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intention of sexually assaulting somebody do I have that correct I I'm not sure I I think that's has been said
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I believe yeah I think what it is clear again I can't confirm that he went to the park with that intention but he but
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I do know that he said when he saw the girls that he was like well they're between the ages of 11 and 18 and I'm
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going to rape them it fell into some range age range that was sufficient to him and very strange and very sick yes
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especially when we're talking about a guy that's a father probably I don't know man it's a sick thought well yeah
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yes but I think even more so but anyway let's trying to move past that but then the Nar as the narrative continues it's
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that during the commission and operation of that he's interrupted or startled by a white van and then and
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then decides to murder the girls and then goes back to his car drives home and and was just going to live out his
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normal life after that yeah I I don't understand why if it is Richard Allen if it's somebody else whatever I don't
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understand how that how that has to become murder wouldn't you couldn't you just wouldn't you couldn't you just flee
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like I don't I don't understand like again I think the one of the problems is he has mental issues and again I I don't
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know if he if he was on medication or not but I know that some of the medications that people are on
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some of the medications they advise you not to drink on because you can go into um states of psychos or psychosis and
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and and to be clear here neither the captain and I are doctors nor have we ever been confused for one but from from
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well I have but just because I played on I was I was in the original cast of ER for a while but um well but and just to
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be clear too it you probably shouldn't drink on any medication at all um you know not just just certain medications
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but but I mean whoever did this took took a box cutter or a sharp instrument and and slice their throats yeah well I
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mean that's pretty that's pretty that's pretty brutal that's pretty brutal to just be like well I was startled in the
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commission of this other crime and then I I did this as a result well I think the and I I think this is what it's
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going to come down to we know the who Richard Allen we know the where we know the
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when we know the how but some of the how we don't know so his confessions fill in
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those gaps and they do so in a manner that makes sense and then he then he's the one that tells us the why and
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because when you have a victim that doesn't is naked one victim is found naked and the other victim is is clothed
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and that doesn't make much sense until he explains to you the motive and then when you go well how does it go from a
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sexual assault or rape to murder and then you go well he was interrupted by somebody that was a neighbor of this
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area of this location coming home with their service vehicle and then we can back that up by knowing that that
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neighbor came back to his house roughly around that time again the defense is going to argue these minute details
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details of minute by minute what we said multiple times in cases is when you're looking at a timeline you know factor in
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that there's going to be some mistakes whether that's a little 10 minutes earlier or 10 minutes later some people
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would say well that's a big deal cuz but you don't have to prove the timeline within seconds of the murders and so I
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know that this this bomb dropping of information that they think is bomb like a bomb going off in the courtroom of
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this Headphone set that was the the data of the cell phone shows that at some point the the the headphones were um in
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um at some point the headphones were import well that that's going to be the claim but really I think the science and
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the tech of it is that the the headphone jack where the where the headphones would be plugged into on the phone was
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manipulated that like for my understanding that's all they can say with 100% certainty not that actual
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headphones were put in or taken out but the the the Jack itself registered some type of action which impli which means
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that they were manipulated which could imply that yes headphones were either put in or taken out at that time however
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there is testimony that says well if the phone were to be encountered debris or get wet then then it could have the same
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reaction and think about where the phone they're outside in the in the woods and
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they probably were forced across the creek or they're you know they're found lying down in the in the the woods so it
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seems very reasonable that the the headphone jack registered some type of manipulation it's it's very reasonable
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to believe that the phone got wet condensation or dirt or B on it at some point and I can't speak to other cell
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phones but I've had Apple cell phones for years and where you plug in the headphones and where you plug in the
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charger is the same location on some of the phones some of them have been different but I've had multiple
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situations where I had to get a new phone because that input jack is faulty and so if I put my phone on the charger
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at night maybe it would charge for 30 minutes and then sto charging and then later on that night it started charging
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again that's not evidence of a person messing with the Jack that's not evidence of a spiritual entity or
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demonic entity in my room doing this that could just be evidence of a faulty Jack and like you said the Jack could be
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faulty because uh it got debris or water in it so and then then this idea and people I'm just going to disag agree
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with people I think the evidence on the phone the video evidence the audio evidence all the evidence shows us this
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was committed by one person they would have to have some kind of weapon to control these two individuals we have
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evidence that there was a at least um at least two weapons a gun because we have
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a bullet that bullet come from somewhere and then we have OB sharp instrument yeah and uh and then he tells
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US during the confession that it was a box cutter and that he disposed that behind the CVS a box cutter that he was
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part of his work uniform basically that they that they open up so many packages and such that it is regular for a person
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in his position and a person who works at that CVS to keep a pocketed box cutter throughout the course of a work
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day so much it's used so much so that I I believe that it's it's that it's a part of their uniform oh yeah when I
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worked in a warehouse I probably had two to three box cutters on me every day and
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so I think the evidence points to that this is done by one person so this idea that there's two people and then that
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they tried to present this idea that that maybe the girls were taken away and and came back but the cell phone data of
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their phones kind of disproves that theory uh so to me well and I'm glad you I'm glad you're I'm glad you're hitting
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on this here Captain because I think that too many people have tried to focus in on this point and and then make it so
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that it means that Richard Allen is innocent because the defense has certainly tried when they've had law
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enforcement on the stand and say well isn't it true that at one point in your investigation you were investigating the
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potential of multiple perpetrators that that it was carried out by two people is
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that true and then the off says yes well duh it's true because the the investigation last 5 and a half years if
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at some point in that 5 and a half years the investigators didn't consider that it was more than one person I would say
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we have the wrong investigators on the case and what what law enforcement is pointing out is the same thing that the
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captain is saying here just because we explored that possibility doesn't mean that it was two people what they're
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saying is we have to follow the evidence this the evidence that the scene did not
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rule out the potential of two people but it it didn't it also didn't present itself that it had to be two people or
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more that's the problem with this defense right like and and I shouldn't say the problem I I overall and we can
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get into this here in a little bit I think they've done a fairly good job they've not put on a good defense to the
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point where I think that we're going to get an AC quiddle or even a hung jury I I think where their shortcomings are is
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that they bring up these possibilities and they explore things like well maybe it wasn't his car or maybe Richard Allen
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was the guy seen on the bridge but Bridge guy didn't kill the girls they they go down these weird which I think
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the video evidence and the audio evidence proves that whoever they were filming on the bridge that guy is the
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one that confronted them again like we said and the down the hill is the seal seals the deal it's it's the perpetrator
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moving them to where they're eventually found yeah and we also have to realize that there was evidence that the crime
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scene that one of the victims you know without a Shad of a doubt was killed there and yes her body was moved a
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little bit but the blood evidence would show that she was killed and and died at
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that scene so that again other evidence that they weren't taken away and and that's something they've said from the
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beginning they weren't they they didn't say that outwardly the first week or month or so but eventually once that
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came out early in the investigation they stuck to that they being law enforcement
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so where we we talk about the crime scene and possibility of more than one perpetrator or what have you they've
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never said at any point that we have anything at the crime scene physic physical evidence telling us that the
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victims were moved and and yes I know the captain just said one victim was moved but we're talking about feet moved
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just a very short space Not Taken elsewhere not not any of these Fantastical thoughts and speculation
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that have certainly been plentiful um leading up to the arrest and even after yeah I mean this is very
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difficult and I understand the concern of the public to go did we get the right guy let's just talk about the
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confessions for a little bit their defense is basically well he was tortured and I have a I have a problem
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with that statement because I I think I was telling you uh what a week or so ago I was watching this thing
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where these uh pedophiles were put in prison and some of them didn't make it to trial because they were murdered the
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first night that they were in prison so when you have victims that are just kids
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you go well they tortured him by putting him in solitary confinement well did they torture him or did they protect him
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and that also could be both at the same time as far as that could be a sense of torture for somebody that has mental in
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instabilities an expert for the defense says that any form of solitary confinement on a long enough timeline is
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a form of torture however that they're not he's not saying specifically to Richard Allen situation he's saying for
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anyone anywhere but then the problem becomes something you and I spoke about and both agree upon is the the job of
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that Corrections Facility is to make sure that this individual is alive and well and can stand has his right and
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gets his day in court and and like you're like you're saying if if you throw him in with with with uh with
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individuals that want to get after this guy Richard Allen may not have his day in court and then the other thing you
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got to say is well regardless of what this may have done to him deteriorating him Mally and emotionally or whatever
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like uh Mr Mr Allen would you like to be in with the rest of these guys or or would you like to be kept by yourself I
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would think that if he's in his right state of mind he's going to say at Le maybe not 10 for 10 but nine out of 10
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Put Me by myself please right yeah and and so we get this conundrum where we go well he confessed to the crime and he
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confessed to it multiple times and one of the things I keep seeing online that I think is a little silly is this idea
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that well Richard Allen would have got Discovery Well I believe some of the confessions were before the time frame
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that prosecution had to give up all the evidence over to the defense team so you
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can make an argument that some of these details he would not have known of but the interruption of the neighbor that
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was not in any evidence and and do people really think that he's sitting in his cell in his solitary
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confinement cell and going over Case Files the defense team is privy to that information and we don't know exactly
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what they told their client and when they told their client that and I think that is going to be the Crux of this
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whole case we have confessions multiple confessions and I think it's important that the prose ution said well he told
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the he told the prison guard this and he told the his psychiatrist in prison this
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I think that's and to be fair not all the confessions exactly line up with each other right and and that I also
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think that's a misnomer that this idea that the killer knows every detail and can uh paint the the exact picture to
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tell us everything that happened but and his I think the most important confessions are going to be the ones to
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wife and to his mother and and I what I've said to many people when they say are you fall on this case
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did they get the right guy I have to say that I don't know because I'm not I'm not in that room but I guarantee you I
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could have a way better grasp of this if I got to hear his demeanor and hear what
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he told his wife and his mother I think those are the most important y confessions and I think okay so what do
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we what do we know we know that the jury heard those and so I think if they come
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back and they convict him it's going to be as simple as they heard those convictions and they believed him they
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they believe his confessions they believe that he was the man seen in the video on the bridge and then the bullet
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evidence as well and and um the the thing here is with these confessions I really think of this
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defense as a bit of a wet fart okay and and and hear me out here's why right like unfortunately you know
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maybe we'll get a some kind of uh Tums or a modium some kind of sponsor out of this but I I can I think that any person
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of a certain age can say that they've experienced a wet fart at some point in their lifetime yeah now unfortunately
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nobody wants to have a fart situation but it does happen and now sometimes when that happens what what happens
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immed well two things happen immediately you have juicy you you get you get a bit
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of relief if you're having some stomach pain but then you have a whole another problem on your hands right so the
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reason why I think this defense is a bit of a wet fart is that when they when they are are questioning the things that
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make Richard Allen guilty their client guilty when they call that into question and they bring Tes from other
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individuals that that might cast some doubt on it they're taking the jury down a road they never really fully get there
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but they also don't go out of their way to explain why and I think that's that's
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where they've messed up like with this whole car business of having a couple people on the stand that say the car
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that I saw doesn't match a Ford Focus Richard Allen's car or any Ford Focus for that matter but they don't yes
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they're casting doubt that's obviously clear but but what they're not telling the jury is they need to take it a step
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further and go look we're not trying to say that our client wasn't at the trails
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we're trying to say that he wasn't there long enough yeah to carry this out and that's where I think that they're kind
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of dropping the ball they do that with with with with some of the um you know he's he's terrified of conflict
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therefore he's not capable of creating his own Conflict by assaulting or raping or killing some people people but they
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they don't go and take that extra step to explain that very well to the jury now here's where I do think that they've
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done their job the defense in my opinion at the end of the day they number one guilty
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innocent or otherwise their number one job is to have their client's best interest at all
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times to be working in the best interest of their client at all times right where
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I do think that they may have and this would be some very behind the scen stuff here and there'll never be any way of
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proving it maybe if one of them writes a book that will will know if this is true
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or not maybe I'm completely wrong I'm regularly wrong people regularly wrong that book but where I think because I've
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had so many people go Nick he told 40 50 60 different people that he did this why
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doesn't he just plead guilty and spare everybody the heartache and and my my initial reaction was well he doesn't
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want to embarrass his family he doesn't want to admit it to his family no the captain's already pointed out some of
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these confessions are to two of the people he arguably loves the most his wife and his mother and so if he's
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already confessed to them he has nobody left to save face with but then I say like Eddie Murphy in uh what was it
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in Coming to America aha aha I say the aha moment is the person that he's probably been been instructed
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to save face with is his defense team I hope well I shouldn't say that I hope because I don't really care but I
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believe that they told Richard Allen stop confessing one it's bad for your trial and two don't plead guilty because
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guess what if you do end up being in prison for this for the rest of your days now everybody in that building who
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may want to harm you they know for sure that you did it at least leave some doubt on the table so maybe somebody
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doesn't stick a shiv in you at any point [Music] [Music] me I don't know it's just it's it's very
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it's this whole case is difficult and it's sad and you you would hope that there's more evidence you'd hope that
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there was DNA evidence You' hope that there's fingerprints and I think the problem with the True Crime Community
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now is we need to have not just one Smoking Gun we need two or three of them because the pendulum always shifts oh
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Richard Allen was arrested and everybody's like this guy's you know a bag of salty dicks and and now they're
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going well you know he was tortured in prison no he wasn't tortured he was protected from indivual put aside for
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safekeeping and like I was telling you I watch that special on what happens to pedophiles in prison and there's this
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one pedophile that they've decided not to kill the whole prison decided we're not going to kill the guy but they have
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stabbed him in the eyes with pencils and they've and and the amount of times that
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he's had to go back to trial for like appeals or or for whatever reason he's going into prison where he has scars on
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his neck and his head and and they just decided we're not going to kill the guy we're going to just keep torturing him
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and that's what Richard Allen is probably afraid of if he committed these crimes now here's the tough thing and
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look I if I'm stating this wrong wrong based off the video I saw then I apologize but like I said it's going on
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your permanent record yeah I'm keeping track of these things well I've been wrong more than you have so carry on
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this uh Pat Brown this FBI profiler I think she has some interesting points but I think she believes that the
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prosecution didn't prove their point enough again she's not in that courtroom so I don't think she would be
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surprised if he is acquitted well and and I respect Pat Brown's opinion and I'm thankful that you're presenting it here
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but what what I was saying earlier is is is there presentation lacking yes is does it leave something to be desired
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yes it does however I think that they are going and presenting this the best that they can based on off of the
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physical evidence that they have yeah that that's just That's my kind of rebuttal to uh Miss Brown's opinion yeah
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and I think the thing again is it's going to come down to those confessions that they heard not the hearsay
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confessions right because you got to take all those with a pinch of salt but I but I do believe that you know if if
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these confessions just the the happen just the confessions happening I do believe is true I don't I don't know
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were these people able to get to a notepad and write down every detail and then the sign confession that looks like
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a kindergarten artwork mess but we have tape confessions to his wife multiple tape confessions to his wife and his
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mother I think it's going to come down to that do they believe what he's saying on those and if they do they're going to
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convict him and if they don't um then then he's going to walk and then that opens up a whole other can of worms and
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it opens up a lot of wounds and throws alcohol in all those wounds one thing too we down the
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hill that's a lot of people when they went to this trial the ones that were able to get in they were seeing Richard
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Allen in person for the very first time right what everybody really wanted was that oh you get that tingle in your
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earballs you want to hear his voice you want to hear his voice does it match does it sound like bridg gu's voice in
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that in that now Infamous audio and the general takeaway that I've heard time and time again is they played
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two sessions of videotaped uh questioning of Richard Allen by law enforcement by detectives and the most
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people thought that there was a a considerable difference in audio quality between the two but the one that seemed
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to be of the highest and best audio quality he sounds like Bridge guy on that version on that tape of the
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questions especially when be when he becomes angry and confrontational with with the detective asking the questions
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yeah I also think the thing that is going to be interesting is and this is just my opinion so take
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that for what it is but one of my issues with my mental health was the doctors whether they were too quick to
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prescribe something I remember going and getting prescribed anti psychotics now think about that I'm I go to my doctors
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I tell them I'm not doing so well I just B basically I'm telling them what I think I have now I'm not a doctor
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and the doctor says here take these drugs anti- psychotics and then I go to a therapist for the first time and the
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therapist says are you on any medication and I said well they just prescribed me
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X Y and Z and the therapist said to me oh I don't know if you should be on those but uh but you know It's Tricky
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getting on and off medication so I you know these doctors say Richard Allen is clearly not faking
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it and he clearly had a mental break well faking a mental break and having a mental break can look very similar MH
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and then there's also if you killed two children and didn't have a mental break then you're a whole different kind of
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monster yeah and and again are you faking a mental break or you are you leaning into it and again I don't know
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what his alcohol consumption was so I don't know what physical withdrawals he was having from that and and again I
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don't understand what medication he was on or wasn't on but I think that's another decision that the jury's going
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to have to make is is he going crazy because he did commit these crimes is he playing into
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this and those that's evidence that we're we're just he we're everything we're hearing is hearsay so you know
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when people have asked my opinion I keep going back to if I was in the room I'd have a better answer for
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you yeah but we're not in the room and but what's sad to me is to think that there's people out there saying well he
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might not be acquitted and you know obviously if he's innocent you don't want you don't want him to be found
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guilty again it's hard for us to make that that call because we're not privy to all the information but if I'm on the
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jury I'm going okay well he was there he it's reasonable that he matches the height and the weight he's on the bridge
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out of all the people that were in that location there was only a handful of them on the bridge he the video quality
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is not great but he looks like the video quality uh we have eyewitnesses we have
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the sketch he looks like the sketch he has a gun that matches and we're not talking about a super common gun and
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then we're also talking about the ammo not super common ammo either not not super rare though either right right
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right but but it's it's reasonable it's reasonable to believe that that that was
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his gun that's re and then we have this expert saying no because of these markings it it definitely is gun and
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then we have all these people backing up that she's a credible witness um well let's let's go down that
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route because of the the junk science statement by many people out there and and and and to be to be clear it those
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people seem to be in the minority but so junk science but before the arrest of Richard Allen it was two it was two
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experts that work at the labs at ballistics experts at the ISP lab in Indiana that independently of one
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another came to the same conclusion that the bullet found at the crime scene came
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from Richard Allen sigu two people independently of one another okay came to that conclusion so
00:33:46
now let's go to the trial well if it is in fact such junk science well one why are we using it have we why have we been
00:33:54
using it for decades but then two the the defense is going to put on their own ballistics expert to
00:34:05
combat right what the the prosecution is saying that the bullet came from and so
00:34:10
their expert had a big old file had a whole bunch of photographs and reviewed all the photographs and reviewed all the
00:34:17
information that was provided to him by the lab and he gets on the standing he says well it's my air quote expert
00:34:24
opinion that this this cartridge did not come from Richard Allen's 6h hour but when in
00:34:35
cross-examination the prosecution then ask well did you conduct your own evaluation meaning did you actually get
00:34:43
his gun and rack a few cartridges and bullets through it and conduct your own experiment conduct your own evaluation
00:34:52
of potential evidence to include or exclude this indiv ual he says no I did not he simply looked at the photographs
00:35:04
and came to a conclusion and in fact he slipped up while he was on the stand and
00:35:09
he said had I conducted my own evaluation I may have arrived at the same conclusion as the prosecutions
00:35:16
experts right which basically says I agree with her so good luck good luck so so again so then you go if you're the
00:35:27
jury okay so it's it's reasonable that this is ammo from his gun so and then he tells you what the
00:35:38
motive is and that makes sense with what we see at the crime scene so that makes
00:35:44
sense in the time period in which he was there and then again he's but he's also
00:35:50
telling us the why because they were between this age and this age oh I was going to assault them yeah and then I
00:35:59
didn't because this individual came home and then they go did that individual come home at that time yes he did now
00:36:07
the people that go well he was privy to Discovery that was not in Discovery that
00:36:12
was nobody could have known that but the person that was there unless Richard Allen had a relationship with this
00:36:21
person and knew their work schedule or was stalking this individual he would have no way of knowing what this
00:36:29
person's typical work schedule was or that the fact that he had a service van because that I believe that part of his
00:36:36
his job uh so we we put him at the crime location but we can also put him at the
00:36:44
crime scene because the crime scene starts at the top of the bridge so there's all these scenes and then you
00:36:49
have to go is it reasonable to believe that he's telling us the the truth during some of the confessions sure is
00:36:57
it reason able to believe that he's lying in some of the confessions is it reasonable to believe that he doesn't
00:37:04
know some of the information and that's why it's wrong and some of these there's and this
00:37:12
happens in all these cases but and I understand why the prosecution did it but some of these you know quote
00:37:19
unquote confessions where he they're searching his house and he says it there's no point because this is all
00:37:24
over oh look if he was innocent he could think that his life was over because he's being accused of a double homicide
00:37:31
of children so I I don't put a lot of weight into those because I don't believe those are confessions and like
00:37:40
we were talking about before you know we don't we don't know all the details we don't have a a line by line description
00:37:50
of the confessions when he said stuff like well I K I killed my whole family well maybe just dead to that his
00:37:59
family's dead to him because he committed these crimes or because he's going to be locked up in prison if he
00:38:04
committed these crimes and and I sound like a broken record but I think it's just going to keep it's going to come
00:38:11
back to they heard the words from the man and I I hate when people go well these conditions can make somebody think
00:38:21
that they did it and that's why he keeps on saying well I think I did but it's like again and and and then what's going
00:38:28
to happen is if he is convicted I think what will happen is those those tapes I mean all this information will
00:38:34
eventually get out eventually and there'll be somebody like the murder sheet podcast that goes through and uh
00:38:41
does it what they did with like the West Memphis 3 case files and then put them all up online uh we'll be too busy
00:38:48
covering other cases to do that but I think people will then hear those confessions to his wife and to his his
00:38:56
mother and and they'll they'll be able to make a determination then you know whether they think those are believable
00:39:04
or not um but it's sad because we've been covering this case for so long and to know some of the
00:39:14
family members and just I I think these um I think these the defense team is I think they're douches because first
00:39:24
of all they went down this path of Odin ISM which okay you can go down that path
00:39:32
cuz maybe there was some evidence of law enforcement going down that path but some of the individuals that they put
00:39:40
out on record as thinking that they were involved some of those individuals were
00:39:44
at work on surveillance cameras for the whole time period of the murders of the girls and the fact that they never got
00:39:54
off that I mean they still were trying to bring that into some kind of argument into to this trial even though they were
00:40:01
denied it before and then they were after it was already determined that they could not present that at trial and
00:40:07
then you have some people the the Richard Allen truthers or whatever they want to call themselves that are saying
00:40:12
well it's not quite fair that they're not able to present the odinism [ __ ] this was this was conducted over a three
00:40:20
or four day hearing that took place in the summer this was something that they that they went to court and had court
00:40:26
proceedings for and had an opportunity to present their case and guess what it didn't hold any water that ship sunk
00:40:33
right away and fortunately and I'm very happy about this look this our system is not perfect
00:40:40
I'm not nobody here is arguing that but it's I believe and I'm just one person and and as I've pointed out twice
00:40:48
already in this episode I've been I've been wrong before but I believe that the system is quite good and it is aimed at
00:40:56
finding the true guilty person and thankfully you cannot just walk into a courtroom and present a third party
00:41:04
defense where you just go oh you know what Nick Edwards we think he what about him he could have done it oh the captain
00:41:11
what about him he he could have done it what about um what about their friends from generation why they could have done
00:41:19
it you can't just legally walk in there and just start throwing names around the
00:41:23
room you have to have some evidence just like they did when they had evidence that led to the arrest and the eventual
00:41:31
charges against Richard Allen they you didn't have wouldn't we all be throwing Tomatoes if if Indiana state police came
00:41:40
out before an arrest was made and got and held a pressor that says well what about this guy what about that guy what
00:41:45
about this guy what about that guy what about this guy you can't you can't do that yeah and you especially can't do it
00:41:51
in in a courtroom and that like the Captain's pointing out and he did it much more eloquently than I am
00:41:57
there was nothing there was nothing against these people and and look I do not fault the defense for trying that's
00:42:04
certainly their job but it didn't it didn't work and so nobody can say and be right that they never had an opportunity
00:42:12
to present this third party defense or the odinism idea because they did they absolutely did in a court of law yeah
00:42:20
and I think again it goes back to what I was saying before we got a when where who how and what why and so when you go
00:42:28
well we think you got the who wrong okay well the people that we think did it we
00:42:34
you got to put them at that location and once you can't put them at that location
00:42:40
you have to move on from that idea if they're not at the location they can't commit the murders and I've looked up
00:42:47
some of these individuals that they had in their court filings and and they're some
00:42:53
weirdos you know no doubt about it um they're they're into some I'm sure they think that two guys that do a true
00:43:02
crime podcast out of their garage are fairly weird as well what what is The Morbid girls call their listeners
00:43:09
weirdos that's why it's so easy for us to identify weirdos we we know what to look for you got to like those morbid
00:43:17
ladies I like the fact that they call everybody weirdos cuz hey we're all a little weird for for maybe and some of
00:43:25
us in a good way yeah I might be weird in a in a bad way but so that's what it all comes down to and it and it sucks
00:43:34
because like I said we we've gotten to know the families and we gotten to know a lot of uh people that that's great
00:43:42
English right gotten gotten to know um that's my Ohio in I'm I'm Ohio boy coming out but it's sad that I can't
00:43:52
that we're not going into closing arguments where I feel like they definitively prove their point and that
00:43:59
we're going to walk away with a conviction um I feel saddened by that but like I said back to the defense team
00:44:05
being [ __ ] when they go well we got these hair hairs that were in one of the victim's hands and and they almost imply
00:44:14
that it's like this like pile of hair like it's so much hair that that that the victim had to riping out of the
00:44:21
Killer's head and that's just not true and it's also like what I said it's like the dashboard confession song if you've
00:44:30
lived with any woman ever their hair is everywhere and so it's reasonable to go well she was dropped off at the park by
00:44:43
her sister and there it's very possible that that hair is of her sisters the one
00:44:49
victim was wearing the sister's sweatshirt right which would also probably have hair on it it's uh
00:44:58
and and I think those kind of moves are douchy and it and I think these guys are
00:45:05
I don't think they were prepared well and I think that's why their defense they had plenty of time they had more
00:45:11
than ample time to to be prepared which is surprising as well and in the defense
00:45:18
of the defense when your client is confessing to the crime over and over that's that's a difficult thing um MH
00:45:28
and and I know that people point to other cases where somebody confessed multiple times and and and so they go
00:45:38
and and that's what we kind of do on this show and other podcasts and YouTube channels is we're comparing this case
00:45:46
just like we said earlier there's several cases where the killer presents themselves to law enforcement whether to
00:45:54
get information or try to stay uh ahead of the investigation so that's not unreasonable but I think um but I think
00:46:06
it's going to like I said broken record here uh chalk this up to my file of uh podcast number five million Captain
00:46:17
becomes a broken record when we hear those tapes and I think one day we'll hear those
00:46:25
tapes I think we're all going to have a better idea of if we believe that he committed these crimes or not once again
00:46:32
I know everyone's eagerly anticipating the outcome of this trial with so many eyes and so many hearts watching and
00:46:41
observing this case from both near and afar we are recording this today before the closing
00:46:50
arguments we are recording this uh just after the defense rest and we like the rest of you are eagerly awaiting the
00:47:00
verdict in this [Music] [Music] trial I want to thank everybody for joining us here in the garage thanks for
00:47:22
telling your mother thanks for telling your brother and if you need more True Crime garage for your earballs and you
00:47:28
know you do you can sign up for our bonus content on patreon or apple podcast subscription Colonel do we have
00:47:37
any recommended reading for the beautiful listeners we do absolutely here Captain but just to expand on
00:47:43
something the captain was talking about off the Record has been Gang Busters lately it always is but it's it's been
00:47:49
Gang Busters lately we've featured some really great guests and some really interesting stories and true crime
00:47:55
stories recently so make sure you check that out again it's Apple subscription and patreon is where you can find our
00:48:03
other show off the record this week's recommended reading this will be the last and final batch of autographed
00:48:12
books uh the deli murders the quest to find the man on the bridge by Yours Truly that's available on our store Page
00:48:19
at truecrime garage.com I know we talked a lot about the trial today and what the
00:48:24
verdict may be but this will take you through everything that you need to know leading up to the trial and shortly
00:48:32
after the arrest of Richard Allen and and and really the investigation and looking for bridge guy and who who the
00:48:40
suspect truly was also you'll learn a little bit about the captain and and myself in the book in True Crime garage
00:48:47
as well so go to our store page that's available along with wonderful shirts and and other swag from your garage
00:48:54
friends here and it's also listed on our recommended page with many other wonderful recommendations and until next
00:49:02
week be good be kind and don't litter [Music]