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GameChanger [Music] [Applause] [Music] welcome to True Crime garage wherever you are whatever you are doing thanks
00:01:43
for listening I'm your host Nick and with me as always behind the glass tap dancing on a landmine he is the captain
00:01:50
pay no attention to the man behind the curtain I am your captain it's good to be seen and it's good to see you thanks
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out of five are almost perfect garage friends first up a raise of the glass to Kim in Irwin Pennsylvania and a big
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cheers mates to Shawn and Dublin Ireland next we have Marita just outside of Normal
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everybody gather around grab a chair grab a beer let's talk some true [Music] crime
00:03:59
[Music] Indiana May 7th 1993 a woman notifies the Hamilton County Sheriff's Department that her
00:04:24
husband is missing the normal conversation and questions follow first law enforcement reminds her that
00:04:34
an adult may not necessarily be missing in the sense that they are allowed to be
00:04:40
unaccounted for and just because he is not where he said he would be he may in fact be where he wants to
00:04:48
be typically in this situation the person requesting to file the missing person's report will be asked to wait 48
00:04:58
or even 7 72 hours from the time the adult was last seen or heard from before filing the
00:05:07
report then the woman said she has not seen her husband in quite some time when was the last time you saw your
00:05:16
husband she is asked in her reply Thanksgiving 1992 almost 6 months ago on May 7th 1993
00:05:30
Paul Raymond Herod was reported missing to the Hamilton County Sheriff's department and he has not been seen
00:05:37
since now and for good reason many are calling Paul The Invisible [Music] Man on this very day 26 years ago a man
00:06:01
was reported missing that man is Paul Raymond Herod now we know very little about Paul but we do know he is reported
00:06:10
missing by his wife according to Paul's wife Mara the two met while working together at an assisted living facility
00:06:18
for children they met in 1990 they knew each other only for a short period of time before they started
00:06:25
dating and eventually Mara decided to move in with Paul we unfortunately do not have an exact
00:06:32
date for when they moved in together but going off of Mara's statements this would have been in either 1990 or
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1991 on June 6th 1992 Paul and Mara got married at a very very small ceremony at Mara's
00:06:49
grandmother's house the details about Paul's life are very difficult to present for one thing Paul didn't have
00:06:57
any close friends or really any friends at all present at Paul and Mara's small wedding were only Marlo's immediate
00:07:05
family none of Paul's family if in fact he had any were in attendance Paul's best man was a man
00:07:13
that Paul worked with a man that was asked by the pastor presiding over the ceremony to attend and stand in as
00:07:20
Paul's best man we should point out that Mara had a young son who lived with Mara and Paul
00:07:28
at a rental house and we should also point out that Paul purchased a 1992 white geom
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Metro his personality well he's described as a man that's very difficult to get along with I know the type but a
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very hardworking man in fact he held three jobs during the time that Marlo and Paul were together one at St
00:07:49
Vincent's Hospital as a janitor and at an assisted living facility and delivering the newspapers for the
00:07:56
Indianapolis Star it's my impression captain that Paul often worked multiple jobs all at one time yeah or he wanted
00:08:04
you to think that he was working other jobs and was very busy all the time now this all seems pretty normal but here is
00:08:12
where things get weird so Thanksgiving 1992 the same year that they got married Paul and Mara attend a Thanksgiving Day
00:08:20
get together at one of Mara's family members homes later that night Paul drove home by himself Mara has stated
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that that night Paul left their home and went to the nearest pay phone and we don't know if he placed a call or if he
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was receiving a call but Mara says she has no idea who Paul was talking to the other details of that night are sketchy
00:08:44
but Marla says the next day in her mailbox she found a $100 bill with a note the note was from Paul we don't
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know exactly what the note said but according to Mara in the note Paul simply stated that he quote needed to
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get away for a while on Friday November 27th 1992 Paul Rayman Herod left his home near Sheridan Indiana in his 1992
00:09:12
white geom Metro two-door hatchback leaving no indication of where he was going or when he might return and he has
00:09:19
not been seen or heard from since yeah what's that called a Dear John note right the tricky thing here with this
00:09:27
story though Captain is we we only have Mara's words to go on we don't have anybody else to corroborate this
00:09:35
information right because Mara does not bother to report Paul missing until May 7th 1993 so let's see how well I
00:09:43
remember math that's like that's 161 Days Later MH that's a long time to wait to report somebody missing well that
00:09:52
$100 must have held her over for a long time well she says simply that she didn't report him missing for so long
00:09:59
long because At first she thought he would return right so she finally reports him missing this is because of
00:10:05
the white 1992 geom Metro hatchback yeah this vehicle plays a big role in this whole story because what happens is Paul
00:10:13
took out a loan for that car well after he disappears no one is making the payments on that loan so the loan
00:10:22
officer starts calling their house because they want to collect on the payments right Mara is telling them it's
00:10:30
Paul's car it's Paul's loan and he took off and he took the car with him so she doesn't want to pay for this car the
00:10:37
bank says we don't care where Paul is or where the car is we want our money and you're his wife so if we can't get it
00:10:46
from him we're going to get it from you yeah so that prompts her to file the missing person's report reporting Paul
00:10:54
and the vehicle as missing a little suspicious right to take so long right and now she's off the hook for the loan
00:11:01
or the loan payments I actually believe that it was at the um suggestion of the loan officer who was calling to collect
00:11:10
right that said look you need to make this official or we don't believe you we're going to keep trying to get these
00:11:15
payments well it's one thing for a person to go missing but a car do did they find the car they did but it's
00:11:23
going to take some time so as soon as she files this report we have the Hamilton County Sheriff's Department
00:11:29
they pick up this case yeah so this case it's it's looked at but it goes cold and
00:11:35
fast the difficult thing about this case for investigators immediately is with Paul having no family that anyone knows
00:11:43
of and no friends and his wife is out to lunch to put it politely the sheriff's department really are the only ones
00:11:51
looking for him so they simply have no leads or nobody to gather information from but they also consider that they
00:11:58
are they were probably looking at two very simple scenarios right so one either Paul took off on his own and he
00:12:06
is long gone this is if you believe Mara's statements right or two Mara knows more than she has reported and may
00:12:14
even be responsible for Paul's disappearance there is very little if any movement on this case for quite a
00:12:23
while until one day the case File is handed to detective Greg lockart Greg takes a look at this case the first
00:12:30
thing he realizes this is only one of two outstanding missing persons cases in his
00:12:38
County so we have Paul Raymond Herod missing and the other case they have never found the person but they have
00:12:46
someone in custody who has confessed to the murder of that person and even attempted to lead authorities to the
00:12:53
body but the body has never been located so technically this is the only outstanding missing person case in
00:12:59
Hamilton County but this may be one of the most complicated missing person's cases because what the Hamilton County
00:13:08
Sheriff's Department unravels is their missing man is not who he says he is the missing man is not Paul Raymond Herod
00:13:18
see in this investigation the police really all what they had was a little bit of information to work from okay so
00:13:26
they had this man's parents' names and date of birth this is really all they have to work with this is
00:13:32
information that the Paul Raymond Herod left on paperwork while he was you know known to be in existence let's say right
00:13:41
okay so they discover that in fact a Paul rayon Herod with the same parents' names and date of birth was killed by a
00:13:50
car in 1947 when he was 5 years old and the death occurred in Ohio not Indiana right so then they learned herod's
00:14:00
social security number was not issued until 1987 and this was the social that our
00:14:07
missing man was using okay just so this doesn't get confusing the real Paul Herod died as a
00:14:16
result of a car accident at the young age of five this boy's nickname was Skippy so we will call him Skippy not to
00:14:24
confuse things so Skippy dies and then many years later someone gains access to Skippy's personal information and gets
00:14:32
issued a social security number now detective lockart is very determined to solve this thing he recognized that this
00:14:41
is a very unique case and decided to apply outside of the box investigative techniques yeah to maybe finally get
00:14:48
some answers detective lockart took to webo providing information and requesting information he actually
00:14:57
actively answers questions and looks for leads from the public using things like
00:15:02
web to further help crowdsource this investigation he reached out to us at True Crime garage immediately I was
00:15:10
fascinated by this case for one who really was this guy before he stole the identity of Skippy the real Paul Herod
00:15:19
right and then where did he go after he disappeared what was he running from to change his identity and what caused him
00:15:27
to continue to run after he got married to Marlo all right so we have this missing man we're going to call Paul
00:15:34
right he marries this lady that he works with he works supposedly three jobs well
00:15:40
we we do know that he did work those three jobs there there's paperwork um that exists to this day M to to suggest
00:15:50
that he did in fact was employed and worked all these jobs at the same time this is how the sheriff's department
00:15:57
came across his the you know supposed Paul herod's parents' names and date of birth that
00:16:05
was really all they had to work with when they started their missing person's investigation knowing the missing
00:16:11
person's uh parents' names and date of birth this leads them to discover that the identity was stolen the real Paul
00:16:20
Herod nicknamed Skippy was killed in an accident in 1947 and then somebody this Invisible
00:16:27
Man mhm uses it gets the social security number issued to him in 1987 using Skippy's personal information right and
00:16:39
he has little to no friends which would make sense because he's working all the time but he's also a grumpy s so right
00:16:50
but it's still so fishy that the last time you saw him also was a major holiday being Thanksgiving and you
00:16:57
haven't seen him in a 160 some days and now you're calling because well you have to pay for this
00:17:04
car mhm I mean that is very fishy to me so let's go through this thing real quick before we get into some some
00:17:11
information that was uncovered by detective lockart so the general scenario is this
00:17:19
this man whoever he is walks into town one day using the identity of a dead boy okay Paul Raymond Harris
00:17:29
he falls in love with this woman this woman Marlo was actually married at the time when the two met and she leaves her
00:17:36
husband to go start a relationship with him with the grumpy guy yeah they get married could you imagine what her
00:17:44
husband was like well and then once he disappears here here's the tricky thing in this whole whole story MH what is
00:17:54
this guy running from to the point that he steals an identity starts a whole new
00:17:59
life under this identity and then if we are to believe Mara's words one day he gets a phone call or makes a phone call
00:18:07
and leaves he just up and leaves town so you have to wonder is this guy running for his life or is he running from the
00:18:14
law or is he running from both well ites and he gets tipped off some information
00:18:20
and he decides he's got to run again well seems like all these jobs he has these three jobs are kind of entrylevel
00:18:26
jobs anyways but then it makes you wonder was he possibly a felon that couldn't get certain jobs that's why he
00:18:34
steals the identity so there he therefore he can get jobs but then what's this call or we have a motive for
00:18:45
the ex-husband going hey he stole my wife I'm going to steal your life right right and that was the suspicion of the
00:18:53
sheriff's department right away they're like okay Marlo does not report him missing for 161 days mhm so either she
00:19:01
knows more or could be involved maybe her ex-husband killed Paul because at some point Mara and her ex-husband they
00:19:10
rekindle their relationship that's fishy it's a it's a very strange situation but we do have
00:19:18
some information that detective lockart uncovers so lockart found that someone using Paul herod's name opened up a bank
00:19:26
account in the very small town of Hoven South Dakota this so this account was opened after Paul went missing from
00:19:35
Sheridan Indiana in late 1992 mhm so at the end of 1992 there was approximately $52 in this account lockart found a
00:19:46
year-end statement this is the kind of breadcrumb trail that he is determined to find so the good detective told us
00:19:53
the name of the bank but I can't find it in my notes but this may be the only only Bank in hovind South Dakota at the
00:20:00
time because this is an extremely small town MH in 2010 the census says less than 500 people lived there in 2010
00:20:13
right there is evidence to suggest that there was no activity regarding this bank account the following year in
00:20:19
1993 so either that man who was going by the name of Paul did in fact set up that
00:20:26
account or somebody set it up right to make it look like Paul was still around then detective lockart uncovered more he
00:20:34
found some small trace of the GE Metro so he found that it was sold in Denver Colorado in
00:20:41
1994 today the dealership has no record of where the car came from but they told
00:20:46
lockart this this car would not have been imported from any other state meaning it was either sold or abandoned
00:20:55
or seized somehow inside the state of Colorado and this dealership obtained this vehicle but it definitely came from
00:21:03
Colorado and they say likely Denver the same city as the dealership but Colorado
00:21:09
is pretty good distance from Indiana right so if you're following the paper trail here we have Paul Herod who leaves
00:21:18
Sheridan Indiana and then it's about a 14-hour drive to that Hoven South Dakota where the bank account is opened up
00:21:28
remember he left the day after Thanksgiving and we believe that there's no activity on that bank account in
00:21:37
1993 so very likely this Paul Herod sets up this bank account at the end of '92 using it maybe only for that the month
00:21:46
of December or for a few days or weeks or whatever it's a little curious why somebody would even bother to open up
00:21:53
the account and use it for such a short period of time mhm well I'm guessing that
00:21:58
he has a check from a job that he hasn't cashed yet you can make a 14-hour trip in one day so you drive there you set up
00:22:07
the account you stay a night or two cuz they tell you hey you got to deposit these checks and then they're going to
00:22:14
be made available in a couple days mhm so then once they're made available then you take that money and you leave yeah
00:22:22
so this is 14 hours away to that hovind South Dakota that's interesting that you
00:22:26
say that Captain because that points out points towards evidence of another thing
00:22:32
that phone call right so if Marla statements about this phone call are true that either he made a phone call or
00:22:39
received one that he was not intending to hear whatever he was told during the course of that phone call that maybe he
00:22:49
was he his intentions were not to leave that night mhm and something he learned something during the course of that
00:22:56
phone call that prompts him to leave and then as you said since nobody's looking
00:23:01
for him because Marlo the only person that knows that he's missing says that oh I thought he would come back because
00:23:07
that's what his note said he he then returns to collect on money that he needs to keep moving that's interesting
00:23:15
well but also he doesn't drain the account so it's almost like wherever he was heading he thought well I'm going to
00:23:21
come back this way and maybe drain the account so it's almost evidence that well it's only
00:23:26
$52 yeah but I mean I I don't know what activity was done on the account so I don't know how much he you know like I
00:23:35
said he could have two or three checks that he deposited and he waited for took the money but why not take all the money
00:23:42
mhm well that's the interesting thing too is there do we have another scenario that happens in Hoven South Dakota where
00:23:49
he decides he has to run again you know get some more information and has to up and leave again leaving
00:23:56
the $52 in the account I also think you have this scenario where he gets a phone
00:24:03
call and there's something from his past that he has to take care of but that maybe he always planned on returning
00:24:13
here's some money I'm going to come back goes wherever does these Bank transactions
00:24:20
but he's still heading towards somewhere we obviously don't know where he's heading to and something happens maybe
00:24:27
he had to take care of something bad and that didn't work out and he and he died
00:24:33
somewhere or somebody killed him and cuz you know it's the way the car dealership
00:24:39
says is they didn't pay for the vehicle it wasn't a trade in or it seems like well no what they say is they don't know
00:24:47
how they acquired that's what I'm saying but they give some suggestions of it might have been abandoned it could have
00:24:54
been repoed or whatever right mhm difficult situation there right so the only information we have from the
00:25:02
dealership is what their opinions are their opinions are we've lost the records of how we obtain this car we
00:25:10
know we have it we had the vehicle at one time because we sold it in 1994 so following the paper trail he
00:25:17
leaves in '92 in Indiana then about 14-hour Drive later there's a bank account we again we should be clear we
00:25:24
don't know what the activity is on that bank account the only paper trail that they're able to find is a yearend
00:25:30
statement the end of the year statement for 1992 that says there's an account with the name Paul Raymond Herod and
00:25:38
there's $52 left in the account now 1993 comes and goes and there's no endof year statement from that bank regarding
00:25:46
that account so we don't know exactly what happened there but the car is sold this is a 9-hour drive from hovind South
00:25:54
Dakota all the way to Denver Colorado and what they they simply say here is look we we sold the vehicle in
00:26:02
1994 so we must have acquired it shortly before that it's believed that they acquired it at an auction mhm and they
00:26:09
sold it and in fact everybody that's owned the vehicle since then has spoke to detective lockart but the thing is
00:26:17
what what they told the detective is look this was not a highly desired car it wasn't a a very valuable car speak
00:26:24
for yourself they say priceless nobody would pay to import this vehicle from another state it would it would just cut
00:26:32
into your any chance you have of making any profit off of selling the vehicle so
00:26:37
if we are to believe that is in fact Paul Raymond Herod our missing guy who is transporting this vehicle out to
00:26:46
Colorado then we have to assume that after he left on Thanksgiving at some point he makes his way to South Dakota
00:26:53
and then decides he's got to leave again and now he heads to Colorado the problem
00:26:58
is we don't know where he could have gone after that well and we don't understand what the phone call was about
00:27:05
so the possibilities of the Invisible Man are [Music] endless this show is sponsored by better
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Angie [Music] that all right we're back cheers mates cheers so here's a big problem with this
00:29:12
case and with this investigation you know we've covered plenty of missing persons cases but so much time is spent
00:29:21
looking at who the person was that went missing in their life and things going on in their life yeah the problem here
00:29:28
is we don't know who this guy really is we don't know who this person using Paul
00:29:34
Raymond herod's identity truly is the other thing is we don't know where he came from we don't know why he just pops
00:29:41
up on the radar and steal steals this identity to begin with so that end is something it's a weird investigation
00:29:50
because you're almost torn in two directions one where could he have gone two who was he before yeah who the heck
00:29:58
is this grumpy so right and why was he running we were asked to cover this case so that we could get as many ears on it
00:30:05
as possible which would turn into eyes viewing pictures of this Paul Raymond Herod we need information where could he
00:30:13
have been and where did he go and who was he yeah he could have had a lot of family members that could see this and
00:30:19
and give us answers and detective lockart we were able to sit down with him and he was going to fill us in on
00:30:25
some of the possibilities of who who Paul Raymond Herod actually was before he stole this identity so detective
00:30:32
lockart you found paperwork that Paul Raymond Herod used to get jobs and on one of these pieces
00:30:41
of paper he says that he attended Roosevelt High School in Yonkers New York is that correct that's correct that
00:30:49
being said that was Rosevelt Roosevelt High School in Yonkers New York recently I have learned that there are
00:30:58
at least five different Roosevelt high schools in that immediate vicinity the important thing here Captain is that we
00:31:06
know that during the time that this person using the name Paul Raymond Herod that he was known to let's say exist he
00:31:13
had to fill out paperwork for different things you know whether it be getting a job getting a marriage license the car
00:31:22
loan what the detective is looking for is information on that remain you know any of that paperwork that remains
00:31:30
available to this date right that could lead him to who this guy actually was when he was filling out paperwork did he
00:31:37
slip up and actually put some truthful information about himself right or is it all [ __ ] is it all [ __ ] the
00:31:46
problem here though is it's difficult to find these things so once you do find them oh here's a lead he may have
00:31:54
attended Roosevelt High School in Yonkers New York that seems like a great lead crap there's five schools there
00:32:01
that are called Roosevelt School in the Yonkers area one and then two we have no
00:32:08
idea what year this guy would have attended and what name he was using at the time right so a big problem here too
00:32:18
that we have to keep in mind is we don't know this individual's real age at the time that Paul Raymond Herod disappeared
00:32:26
he was of the age of 51 had Paul you know had Skippy really lived that long of a life right so
00:32:34
here's my thought Captain I my first suspicion regarding this is however this guy got Skippy's information I think if
00:32:44
he was looking to steal someone's identity and start up a new life one thing you might want to try to do is
00:32:50
find somebody that's roughly your same age you know maybe within four or five years younger or four or five 5 years
00:32:57
older than you so you look the part yeah right guessing people would go younger right but it's one thing to put a little
00:33:05
[ __ ] on a job application but you're married to somebody he had to sit there and have conversations with Mara you'd
00:33:13
think at some point he would use actual truth because that would be easier to remember right I and I agree with that
00:33:20
and Marlo was able to tell me a few things about him uh and her her sister Kim was able to tell me one thing that
00:33:28
was interesting um so you're you're asking Mara to draw on memories from you know 26 years ago at
00:33:38
this point and some of them are are more clear than others um but a few the things that she W she was able to tell
00:33:45
me were that Paul spoke one time about working at herod's casino in Vegas didn't did not give me a time
00:33:56
frame did not know that time frame safe to say it's before 1991 Paul had also mentioned that he was
00:34:06
either in the Air Force or associated with the Air Force and that he was either stationed or flew over an Air
00:34:14
Force Base in Greenland which there is only one of she also told me that that he has a
00:34:21
large scar on the crown of his head that goes toward the back straight over the top top of his head and toward the back
00:34:28
of his head and he would never give her a reason or an explanation for why that scar is there he would always change the
00:34:36
subject and of interesting note you mentioned Pillow Talk Marlo says one night they were laying in
00:34:44
bed and they were having a conversation about nothing in particular and Paul stopped and looked at her and said you
00:34:52
know I can disappear at any time I know how to do it and I believe that statement from Marlo because when she
00:34:59
told me this she became infuriated she teared up and she became mad so it was a re very real reaction for her it was
00:35:09
almost like she relived it because that's what happened well Paul's better at pellow talk than I am I mean the last
00:35:15
thing I brought up was did you know that Bundy would make his girlfriend play dead during
00:35:22
sex these are my great ideas of Pillow Talk well this sound sounds like a threat like something's going on in this
00:35:29
conversation where he wants to kind of threaten her that's what I believe of saying to the person that you're
00:35:36
supposed to be in love with the person they may be even be married at this point and he says you know I can
00:35:42
disappear whenever I feel like it because I know how to or possibly a power move in the relationship you know
00:35:49
like well hey you know if just to let you know I could disappear at any time so you better treat me right or or
00:35:56
something like that why does Mara take so long to report Paul missing I describe Mara as Mara is a good person
00:36:06
let me start by saying that Mara tends to in my opinion bury her head in the sand and wish things go
00:36:14
away I don't I personally do not feel that she has ever dealt with him leaving her I think it is still a very open
00:36:23
wound on her body she she is a victim of him emotionally but she's had other issues
00:36:32
in her past as well that this was just another compounding issue um but no she's never dealt with Paul leaving and
00:36:40
so in that way she's still truly a victim I think that she still I would argue to say that if Paul came back
00:36:46
around that she'd probably take him back yeah and that's not healthy I mean going
00:36:50
back to an ex is like taking a shower and putting on your old dirty underwear just doesn't make sense was there
00:36:57
anything else that you found out through some paperwork that Paul filled out that
00:37:01
might lead us to figure out who in fact he was before so there's there's only one thing that I have
00:37:10
found that I like to describe as either a A breadcrumb or a major mistake on Paul's part on June 5th
00:37:21
1992 he and Marlo went to do their paperwork to get married so a marriage applic
00:37:27
a and on his side of that paperwork he gives his mother's name as Margaret colleti c o l t
00:37:38
TI and he gives his father's name as Paul L Herod Skippy's real mother's name was Mary
00:37:48
Condon Herod and his father's name was Paul Monroe Herod now the reason I think it's either
00:37:57
a A breadcrumb or B A major mistake is Paul had been Paul Raymond Herod four or five years at that point and he had he
00:38:08
had completed many of forms and completed them correctly with the correct parents'
00:38:15
names that's why I believe it's one of those two things with the mother's name in
00:38:21
particular the only other thing that we have found was that his car appears in Englewood
00:38:30
Colorado at an auto auction in January I believe January 24th or 27th of 1994 now it's at an auction
00:38:40
being sold I do not know how it got to the auction I don't know where the vehicle was recovered from but I have
00:38:48
spoken to several of those Auto Auction dealers but of course 26 years later we do not have records he goes missing
00:38:57
around Thanksgiving 1992 is there anything that could have happened that day or in that moment that spooked him
00:39:04
that caused him to leave that Mara remembers any kind of interaction with her family or anything somebody may have
00:39:11
witnessed that so that's kind of where some different theories come into play one of my theories is that the person we
00:39:20
love to call Paul was running from the police or better yet for his life whatever his problem was he wasn't going
00:39:29
to the police so we can only assume that he has troubles with the law but he's also seems to be moving enough that his
00:39:40
life is a as is at stake for something uh we don't know whether the scar comes into play with that on his head there's
00:39:48
so much that we just don't know about Paul or or who he was before I would like to think that if he did in fact on
00:39:57
Thanksgiving Day go and use the phone he probably received some information to push him to go I
00:40:05
obviously don't know that but that's that's one of my thought processes on this one it's so
00:40:12
frustrating just take Mara for example 161 days to report your husband missing that's it's frustrating well I also
00:40:21
think that the most frustrating portion of this case in the story and the investigation
00:40:27
is Mara herself because she seems to put very little to no effort at all to one try to figure out who this guy actually
00:40:36
was where he went or provide law enforcement with any information to help them in their
00:40:44
search and I get the personality that you've described but it just seems a little like convenient on her end that
00:40:52
she's not offering up anything oh I'm right there with you and I've been ask that by many of people you know why
00:40:58
didn't she report it for five or six months you have to you have to meet her to understand that uh going into this case
00:41:08
my initial assumption was one of two things she or someone close to her like her ex-husband had murdered Paul or B he
00:41:17
had actually run away after initially speaking to her you would expect to see something in her body language
00:41:25
especially the way that we approached her about it while she was at work and just out of the blue 20 years later
00:41:32
asking her questions and she speaks to me now the way that she did then there is no difference she has she has the I
00:41:39
don't care attitude of he left me so I think part of the bigger problem with Mara is that she left her husband for
00:41:48
Paul for what she perceived to be a better life and five or six months later he leaves her so you know again
00:41:58
initially I I had looked at that U and I'm not saying it's not possible she would have to probably be a pretty damn
00:42:05
good liar um in a little bit of a sociopath in order to to not show any emotion even 20 years later so I I've
00:42:14
kind of put that thought process out of the equation for it um especially once I
00:42:20
learned that Paul had stolen Skippy's identification uh or ID and than the car is found in Colorado I'm
00:42:30
not saying it's not possible that the car couldn't get out there somehow but uh seems like a little bit more of a
00:42:38
stretch for me at this point to think that Marlo was uh culpable in anything that for Paul's disappearance yeah I
00:42:48
would agree with that there's there's one thing that we didn't discuss earlier and that was when I brought up the name
00:42:53
on the uh marriage application of Margaret colleti um on that same application Paul
00:43:01
did put that he was married in divorc that he was at least divorced in 1985 oh wow so the thing
00:43:09
with that is that Mara said she identified the ex-wife as being Diane or Diana Ray Rae and she remembered the
00:43:20
middle name because of the spelling Mara believed that they were married in either witch Kansas or at least live
00:43:30
together in witch Kansas or Kansas City Missouri trying to find any type of those records for me not living in the
00:43:37
states a little challenging um so that's another lead that I'm trying to actively
00:43:42
pursue well to me that sounds like the biggest breadcrumb right M like he again if you're telling people's stories it's
00:43:49
hard to remember lie after lie and if he's talking about his ex a lot or or maybe he's not but if he brought her up
00:43:58
more than a couple times at some point you have to give her a name and so is that information complete horeshit or is
00:44:07
he actually telling the truth and if he is then we at least have a name and we have a location that we could start
00:44:14
tracking back to and that's the thing that I think is so interesting and that's why I also think it's so
00:44:19
frustrating that Mara doesn't seem to be super involved in this investigation nor
00:44:24
care to be well yeah but a part of you has to go this [ __ ] left her here's 100 bucks and
00:44:32
I'm leaving no answer I mean this is like now people you go on a couple dates and they just never return your text or
00:44:39
never return your call it's called ghosting this guy was the ultimate ghaster but I believe that when you're
00:44:46
with somebody or that you you're in communication with somebody for this length of time between him and his wife
00:44:53
that there's going to have to be some truth that is in that information in those conversations along the way I
00:45:00
agree they all can't be lies and that's where I get frustrated where we're not be we're not able to get enough
00:45:06
information from Mara and now we have a situation where it's 26 years later and she very likely can't remember any of
00:45:13
that stuff but the key thing here that's very interesting is she remembers the spelling of the middle name of who she
00:45:22
was told is his ex-wife Ry r a e and so that I think is one of those little tidbits that you're like this could be
00:45:32
some truth there could be some truth to this one statement here yeah it's very detailed it's very detailed that she
00:45:39
even remembers the spelling but also why pick Skippy right again I think that goes back to you have to find somebody
00:45:47
that's roughly your same age or an age that you look like so that you look the part the thing that jumps off the page
00:45:55
here two is that we have two jobs we're talking about a man that when you are able to trace his work history as Paul
00:46:04
Raymond Herod they're able to trace like six or seven jobs that this guy had but
00:46:09
at the time that Mara knew him he had three jobs and two of them are at at assisted living facilities now we do
00:46:17
know that at some point Skippy when his father becomes elderly later in life he is living at an assist living facility
00:46:26
which would roll into my other theory that that I believe that there's a possibility that Paul actually had met
00:46:34
Skippy's dad at an old folks home or a retirement home near the Cleveland area uh Skippy's dad died east of Cleveland
00:46:45
in a retirement home in 1988 so if if Paul had met Skippy's dad that's how he could have obtained
00:46:54
Skippy's information to use it in 1987 prior to Skippy's father dying which is a little bit of a leap because we don't
00:47:02
have any evidence of Paul being in Ohio yes it is a leap it's it's it's difficult though because if he were at
00:47:12
some point in Ohio it's very likely he was not using any of Paul's information at that time that's just a theory of
00:47:20
mine at this point I woke up several weeks ago out of a dead sleep and said oh my goodness
00:47:26
this is this is my connection uh it was just my whether it's a you know divine intervention or
00:47:33
whatever I don't know what it is it was just a thought that woke me from my sleep because of the information that I
00:47:39
knew Paul worked at a retirement home in Indianapolis and what a perfect way to get information to create a new name
00:47:50
what else can you tell us about items that you have found in the course of your your investigation what
00:47:57
was this man up to during the time that we know that the Invisible Man was Paul Raymond Herod right the only thing we
00:48:04
know uh is that he lived at a trailer court for a little bit in Westfield Indiana which is just south of Sheridan
00:48:14
he worked at a I believe it was called chesty potato chips where he was a potato chip delivery guy for like uh you
00:48:22
know snack machines that company went defunct years ago we know that he uh worked at a liquor store in Westfield
00:48:30
Indiana which is long ago you know went defunct and the owner's dead but this would have been under Paul
00:48:38
Raymond Herod right so nothing there's nothing before you know 1987 paperwork wise that we can find the
00:48:48
other issue is that this is 26 years later and even when I started this case in you know six years ago this is uh
00:48:59
almost every business after 10 years gets rid of their records so the records that I have found I've been extremely
00:49:06
lucky to find but there's probably still more stuff out there uh it's just a matter of getting citizens involved
00:49:16
which you know there are people looking into it uh on on the citizen side and time and
00:49:24
ability a lot to unpack here on this episode of The Invisible Man so I want to point out here a couple things
00:49:39
captain that I think are extremely important one if if we are to believe that this individual that the Invisible
00:49:47
Man was roughly the age of Paul Raymond Herod of what he would have been mhm so he would have been 51 at the the time
00:49:55
that he went missing we're talking this case 26 years after this guy goes missing mhm so he would be in his 70s or
00:50:05
roughly there thereof right in his 70s law enforcement have no indication nothing that would indicate to believe
00:50:13
that this individual is in fact dead at this time so the troubling thing here is
00:50:20
who is this guy what the hell was he running from we could be talking about an extremely an extremely dangerous
00:50:27
individual we've had instances throughout the course of history where we have people that come forward and and
00:50:35
point law enforcement to an individual MH and it's somebody that murdered their entire family right somebody that has
00:50:43
killed several people and they're located 10 15 20 years after the fact because of things like crowdsourcing
00:50:52
that they get people involved they get the public involved they put the pictures out there and they say do you
00:50:57
know anything about this man you know just watching that Bundy movie on Netflix this weekend makes you think he
00:51:05
escaped twice and and what if he was able to get uh false identity and live for years as somebody else mhm what kind
00:51:15
of damage Bundy could have done and this could be somebody that you you may have
00:51:20
lived in the same neighborhood with at one point you could have worked we do know that this individual seem to work a
00:51:26
lot you could have worked with him at some point he could be living down the street from you today even though we
00:51:34
believe that he would be in his 70s we could still be talking about a very dangerous individual what we do know
00:51:40
about this individual the very simple things and facts that we can gain from all of this
00:51:47
information is that he was running from something that he could not get law enforcement involved in mhm he couldn't
00:51:54
go to law enforcement say hey I'm running because of this so that makes me wonder is he in fact dangerous on the
00:52:01
flip side of that if there is some connection to a guy that lives in Youngstown if there's any weird
00:52:07
connection to like the mob it would make sense that you go somewhere lay low and
00:52:13
work a ton of jobs to save up money to pay somebody back mhm so there there's just so many possibilities with this
00:52:21
case right right so what we're asking everybody to do is this is a little recommended
00:52:28
viewing if you will right so everybody please go to True Crim garage.com and look at the pictures of the Invisible
00:52:35
Man because maybe you know something if you can see them and if you have any information you can submit that
00:52:42
information to detective lockart at 31777 9887 or through the Hamilton County public safety
00:52:53
Communications at 317 7731 1282 also don't forget to submit your theories and questions to our blog at
00:53:03
true Crim garage.com well it's interesting to see a detective like Greg be so active on a case that people
00:53:10
haven't been active on and also look for alternative sources to create leads MH so it was an honor to talk to him that's
00:53:19
right thank you to detective lockart thank you to everybody out there listening thank you to you captain
00:53:25
everybody we will be back here tomorrow until then be good be kind and don't [Music]
00:53:45
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