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on episode 2 of off the Record we're going to continue our conversation about the Amy mihalovic case we covered the
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Amy mahalovic case in episode number 22 so if you haven't heard that you might want to listen to that before you check
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out this episode an FBI agent is going to come into town to help out with the case he's going to do a suspect profile
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and let's just pick it up there thanks for joining us cheers mates [Applause] [Music]
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[Applause] [Music] [Applause] so when after the profile is made and I don't believe that this profile was ever
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released to the public if it was I couldn't find it anywhere right I believe that this was just something
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that that wrestler did with the local FBI agents to come up with something to direct it a little bit and you got to
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keep in mind too this is just wrestler going I'm only here for a day or two what help can I do while I'm here so
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similar to the Mind Hunter though yeah and so he has very little knowledge of the case other than what they can tell
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him at the time and so they go okay well this guy matches your profile and and wrestler
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says all right well I'm here let's go talk to this guy so they show up unannounced to his apartment and they
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talk to him now keep in mind at this time Amy's body has not been found yet and wrestler firmly believed that
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that whoever took Amy would probably have some kind of trophy or maybe even the body they've not
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discovered the body yet so while they're there he invites them in and the FBI agents talk to him okay
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so quick side note so have you ever lived in efficiency no neither have I I've thought about it a couple times I
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just I don't think I have the mental character to be okay with that I don't think anybody should ever live in
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efficiency really some of them are horrible some of them aren't that bad yeah you
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have two rooms you have the crapper and you have the everything else room yeah but it would be different I mean but you
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sometimes you see these downtown condos that that are large you know and essentially that's efficiency
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kitchen and your everything is in one room but some of these efficiencies I've been in I've been like Cracker Jack
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boxes so they go inside this Cracker Jack box well and they talk to him and he answers their questions
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he does excuse himself at one point to go to the restroom and to beat off I doubt I doubt it with with three FBI
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agents it is efficiency that he goes to the restroom to jack off while these guys are here you never know man anyway
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while he's in the restroom they Snoop around his apartment to look for anything they can find that might show
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signs of Amy having been in that apartment they don't find anything right and they were they were ready to if they
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would have found any hint at all they were ready to come storming in there with everybody and tear the place apart
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were they outside or was that just on call uh no there was they had no backup with
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them at the time right right so it would it would have been hey we need to go get
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a search warrant and then bring all these people in he doesn't give them anything
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incriminating he doesn't say anything incriminating um I believe one of the agents thought
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that maybe he seemed to be a little nervous I don't know that means anything the guy's an introvert and a loner you
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said that's who you were looking for anyway but there's three guys there's three law
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enforcement there was at least two FBI agents if not three of them that went into this and that would be in this
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demands oh yeah you know yeah well and like I told um I told James this I said I said
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this guy strewnack going to the restroom when the officers are there it's a sign of one of two things in my
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mind the problem is the two things that it's a potential sign of are complete opposites they're
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180 from each other it's it's either a these guys made him so nervous that he had to just get out of the room for any
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length of time at all or B the guy just had to go to the restroom and he has nothing to hide so he didn't mind
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leaving the room and letting these guys be unattended in his apartment right and but it could be somewhat of a
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mixture because one they show up unannounced so it wasn't like they're like hey we're
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coming over because if look if somebody came over or called me and said hey I'm coming over gonna hang out in the garage
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for an you know an hour at one o'clock probably try to use the restroom before they showed up
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you know that's just me yeah but but but this guy's what I'm saying is they show up unannounced so we
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we have no we have no idea I mean for all we know he peed right before they got there maybe he had to pee maybe he
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didn't but I also don't I don't think you can rule out that that means he has nothing to hide because he just has
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nothing to hide in this environment no that's exactly what I mean in this exact environment he has nothing to hide right
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okay I think that look we're talking about child murder here I think that that the individual would
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be nervous enough that if if if they had anything to hide I don't think they're leaving the room
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if if he volunteered at the center to keep an ear to the ground to have an idea of what's going on in the
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investigation he's not letting seasoned FBI agents hang out unattended in his apartment
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right I just don't agree I don't think that's happening so I I don't know that going if if something happened there if
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something happened with Amy in his apartment I don't know man because I this is not I think personally I think
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that with with some of these guys with most of these guys there's a lot of times you hear them say as soon as I
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committed the murder I fully expected the FBI and the police to show up at my door 10 minutes after I
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killed the person that's just where their mind goes to yeah they feel like hey this is so
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obvious that it was me that did this there's no way that they're not showing up immediately to to slap cuffs on me
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right um anyway this doesn't lead to them arresting him what it leads to is that
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they eventually find Amy's body and that would be in February of 1990. so what happens with Billy strunek is
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he commits suicide he he is he ingests some stuff called dried gas and apparently I think he the way that
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the story works is that he mixed it with like a soda or something dried gas never
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heard of it it's called called dried gas I think it's some kind of additive that you add
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to your gasoline or to your vehicle mm-hmm anyway it's a horrible way to to die uh he ingests this I believe he mixed it
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with something to so he could choke it down but he did this on February 19 1990. so
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shortly after her body is found this puts him into a coma you know this he's poisoned himself and now he's in a coma
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and he ends up dying on the 21st of 1990. so just a couple days later okay so the body was found
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February what early February I don't have early February and then then late February I believe he was dead 13
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days after her body was found okay that's I mean that it's suspicious but but on one hand I mean just to play
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Devil's Advocate on one hand you have this individual probably a lonely individual
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he um he had some skin disorder too and I don't I don't don't ask me to name it I don't know what it was but I recall
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that maybe that led to him being a loner or being uncomfortable around people right but at some point
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you know because I listen to a lot of these self-help type you know or better yourself type podcast or or books and
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all that stuff and one of the things they suggest and I'm sure this was suggested back in the 80s
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too was you know to build a life around you or also people that you know I started listening a lot of this stuff
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because I was living in a city in a different state no friends or family so you just kind of go back to your place
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every every day and it just you get to the point where if you don't start doing something you know that this
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is just going to keep getting worse you know the depression or whatever it's happening
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and and so just plain devil that Advocate This Guy's in those late 20s he has okay job at best he lives in an
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efficiency we both said that's probably not the best place you'd want to live because when you go home you don't even
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have like a different room well I I you know I know I'm not trying to put anybody down that's just my opinion I
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don't care for efficiency some people have no choice I mean if they're cheaper than other apartments for a reason you
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know you have less room you have less space you have less amenities um well I had a I had a good producer
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friend that lived in one for a while but it's like living in a hotel room to me yeah well his whole thing was he
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um probably less than a year because I remember this pretty clearly because he he couldn't take it anymore I was like
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Oh I thought you liked your apartment he's like I like the complex I like what I'm paying but it got to the point
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because he he told me when he moved into the efficiency like all I need is my bed
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my TV like and a little kitchenette that's all I use within a year he's breaking his lease
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for paying more so he can go into at least a one bedroom right because he needed the separation so you have this
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guy living in this situation and he put some time and effort into Amy so just playing Devil's Advocate it could it's
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very possible if this guy is on the edge thinking the world is bad place thinking
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that there's not a lot of Hope for him or possibly the world and then this girl that you've been
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searching for trying to help find that you put a lot of time and effort into and probably have some personal
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stake now personal stake that you made up in your own head she's now found dead and
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you know he did give her mother a pennant saying this is one's for you and one for Amy when she comes home and this
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guy might have just been a nice guy that was a little socially awkward and they find her body and he kills
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himself because he just can't take it anymore because the world sucks just just playing that Devil's Advocate oh I'm not
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saying that he killed himself because the body was found I'm not saying that at all I think I
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what I'm just bringing up a portion of the story that we've never talked about and one that I find to be very
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interesting that you have this guy that is deemed by local law enforcement to be
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one of their top suspects now match that with he fits the profile of a well-known FBI profiler
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that's from out of town that comes in and offers up a profile right and then you have a situation where he commits
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suicide just days you know more a little over a week after the body is found the
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the thing here is uh where you have you have a couple of things just like the going to the bathroom incident where
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where I said that could point to him being either completely innocent or he's so
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damn nervous because he's guilty of something he's got to get out of the room same with volunteering volunteering does
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not mean you're guilty guess what I firmly believe and here's an interesting thing the quick side note but one thing
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that uh has been kind of the chatter amongst a few people in in the Amy case right now is what if more than one
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person was involved now but but hear me out I should I shouldn't went off on that side note
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hear me out if okay what I mean by that volunteering at the Amy Center doesn't mean that you're guilty of anything
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because there was probably 50 or 100 volunteers and guess what all of them probably more yeah right all
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of them maybe maybe only one was guilty of killing her if anybody you know I I there's a good chance that whoever did
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this didn't volunteer and didn't want to be anywhere near that that Amy Center so
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it's your expert opinion that not all 100 volunteers killed her at the same time that's your ex what are
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you drinking beer right I don't know what it is I just grabbed something out of the fridge
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it's purple um is it a white wheat Okay so okay so I thought I thought we're I thought you're going to tell me about
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Renner and eating lunch with them well yeah this is uh I went up there and this was one of the things that occurred
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no because I spent a few days looking at the Amy case and this was one thing that
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I thought uh when we covered it was a part a portion of the story that I wanted to tell
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about Amy but we never we never got to it it didn't fit um that episode all right so what does
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this have to do with uh you were hanging out with Renner well okay so there's more there's a
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little more to this story here Captain so because I do want to hear about you and the documentary part too
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yeah I'm not certain how much I can talk about that legally right now okay um because I did sign papers that um
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are you allowed to talk about signing the paper I don't know what kind of pin did you use so I but anyway okay so what
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does this have to do with Renner well you know I kind of pride myself on this is one thing that that we have to do on
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the show from time to time you know when we look into people's investigations we keep in mind that they're not always
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telling us everything as they're giving us bits of information right so so oftentimes you and I have to kind of
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read between the lines or peace stories together from multiple sources right so what happened was this was
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half of the story I told you yeah is in Robert ressler's book about suspect bill right about Billy
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streuneck about writing the profile this and that Billy streuneck is mentioned in James
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renner's book Amy as well however he doesn't mention that they did the profile he doesn't mention in detail how
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the FBI went and spoke with this man he just says that local and law enforcement
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spoke to the guy he was considered a suspect he killed himself so now so I kind of pieced two and two
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together because wrestler's book does not name this guy by his real name he just says there was a suspect in in
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this area that that we liked now so I I put two and two together that that I I figured out his name from renner's book
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to to figure out exactly who Robert wrestler was talking about but why do you think they didn't put his name in
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the other book because he's never been convicted of of so they can just leave the name out and
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and that's kind of something that you do sometimes when we're discussing cases too sometimes there's a suspect that we
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know the name of and you'll leave the name out so it's kind of a author's I guess right or author's style well and
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oh okay and so you it's weird because then some people would say well why did Brenner put the name in his book but but
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wrestler didn't is Renner being more but Renner being rude or or you know breaking any rules here's the other
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thing wrestler was writing his book from memory from from a life that he lived there's a chance that when he was
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telling that portion of his life that that it was only a day or two of his life right he may not have recalled the
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suspect's name it may not have been a courtesy it may not have been a courtesy to Bill Billy streuneck it may have just
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been we had a suspect you know I don't know his name but we're not going to say that in my book
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but what this has to do with Renner is this was um so let me go through this story a little
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bit more before I get to Renner in wrestler's book I found this and I'm a huge Robert
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wrestler fan so I don't you know don't don't miscon misconstrued that at all I I anything that Robert Robert wrestler
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puts out I'm going to read damn people keep knocking on stop knocking on the garage door but the
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portion I didn't care for in wrestler's book was this it you know and I'm so passionate about this Amy case is that
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he States look this guy I think was our guy and while I cannot say 100 that he was
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the guy that killed Amy mihalovic because he was not convicted in the court of law right however after this
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guy killed himself it's now been two years and there's never been another similar crime in that area
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I I find that a little disconcerting that he said it that way it almost implies like nobody else needs to look
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into this case it's it's kind of solved in in the the K the killer killed himself
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[Music] but okay tell me if I'm wrong but the way it also makes it sound like on some level he's saying that
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this was not the only crime not only do I think this guy was our guy because once he died there was no
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similar cases it almost sounds like there possibly was other cases that they no no no no no no
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what he what I think he means is that whoever would have done this crime would have reoffended right would not have
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stopped and Amy's case is very unique when you talk about child abduction for one simple fact that her killer
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called her at home and she didn't know who he was that's that's a very strange thing for an abductor to do that's not
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something that happens very often and I think what he is saying and when he says
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this is that this person would have offended again and since his ruse worked the first time
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he probably would have went back to that same method and tried it again and it might it might have had to have been in
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a different area right but he's saying that he believes they would have saw a similar Mo elsewhere and because that
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didn't happen and because the guy that he feels did it killed himself then the secrets are taken to the Grave you know
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that this case will never know the truth about what really happened to Amy because the guy that did it's dead Okay
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question about the case after she went missing before the body was found because there was a gap in time do we
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have any record or any knowledge of anybody else being called because I know that in this case so Amy
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was called to meet at a strip mall and and that's where she met this guy and there was some possible eyewitnesses
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that saw a girl and a guy at the strip mall and and there was some eyewitnesses that
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once the body was found there was people that came forward or maybe before the body was found came forward and said I
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received calls like this other girls came forward so we have calls beforehand then we have
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her going missing do we have any calls after she goes missing no one reported being called after she went missing okay
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so but this FBI profiler is saying well this FBI agent is saying that whoever committed this crime
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probably would have tried to use the same methods again he doesn't outwardly say
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that but I believe that's what he means by stating the guy that I the guy that we think did
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it killed himself and since that time since I the time of me writing this book and after that dude killed himself
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there's been no similar crimes to report right so but he probably would have tried this
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again so this could be something that and I I don't have any I know where I'm trying to say but I can't find the
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stupid words um but this is something that could have probably maybe even took the individual
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maybe a year or a couple years to even try again possibly right right and that's why I think that it was
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I I hate I hate to say this because I have so much respect for Robert wrestler but I I think it was in I think it was
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poor judgment that he used to include that portion in his book I think he could have told that story without
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saying he makes it sound like it's a solved case that's not solved that gives a false sense to the public
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if anything I want people to read that portion of his book and be inspired to look into the Amy case rather than if I
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didn't know the case I would just go well that's one that they've already pretty much solved there's no point in
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looking into that one but so here's the thing well it's kind of like with West Memphis
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Three it's like you know the West Memphis Three get out and it's kind of almost like it's a
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closed case and it's just infuriating because if you're sitting there going wait a second
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if if we're letting them out because we don't think they did it that means somebody else did
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drives me freaking nuts I think it would have been a better statement to say we may never know who did this rather
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than say we may never know who did this because this guy killed himself and he took his
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secrets to the Grave trivia DNA evidence on her I'm going to use renner's exact words
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because we were talking this was one thing that we spoke about um at moose knuckle
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um now this one's something we spoke about in Bay Village actually and he's his exact words were
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they've always been they being law enforcement they've always been real cagey on the idea if they have DNA or not of
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the suspect hmm and he's he's true he's he's true in that statement right I found newspaper
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articles where you have one officer saying we have DNA a DNA profile of this guy
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there's other articles where they'll say we don't and then there's other articles
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where you'll have a different law enforcement officer that will say um I can't answer that question
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you know so they've they've kind of been all over the map they've been very unclear about whether and fact that they
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have DNA now the reason why I bring this story up is not only did I want to include this when we covered it but
00:25:05
furthermore his death was ruled as suicide now in renner's book in the short version that
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he gives of it he states that a suicide note was found crumbled up in the waste paper basket
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please tell me you know what it said according to renner's book the FBI confiscated that that note and according
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to his book it made no reference to Amy or to the case at all it doesn't mean anything though
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no it doesn't no it doesn't clear him or anything like that right right no but but what I what I uh the reason why I
00:25:44
bring this up is because I asked render I said well how can you say I kind of put him on the spot I said if
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if the FBI confiscated that note and they they took it how can you say that it didn't say anything about Amy
00:26:06
and well good right but you see what I'm saying he's he's kind of giving his account of
00:26:13
what was in that suicide note without having seen it right but that's something Renner kind of does I mean
00:26:19
he's a he's a great storyteller I think that's an unfair statement that makes it sound like in a true crime
00:26:28
that he's just going to make up things rather than research though no I don't mean it in that scenario I mean I think
00:26:38
well when you when you say when I when I ask him how could you know that and you
00:26:43
you followed up with well he's a Storyteller it sounds like you're like okay well I'll research everything and
00:26:49
if there's any gaps I'll just fill them in with with well I'm not saying he's doing it consciously
00:26:56
I just think sometimes he is um I think sometimes and this is probably coming from like some of the mara Mari
00:27:05
case but I think sometimes there's gaps and evidence and he speculates a lot um to fill in those gaps but I think in
00:27:18
his mind since he's reviewed it so much that you know well I have a and b I just don't
00:27:25
have what's in between and he fills in the Gap and then to him I don't think he's
00:27:31
I don't think there's any malice behind it I just think that's just kind of the way his brain operates
00:27:40
is that he's telling us this is speculation or that's a great question Here's my thought on it right right he's
00:27:47
not to to say that someone's a Storyteller makes it sound like they're just gonna write whatever they want and
00:27:53
try to pass it off as the truth yeah I didn't mean in that context so the way that this story goes
00:28:01
is as soon they don't find out that this dude killed himself until a couple days
00:28:07
later this is law enforcement they don't find that find out that he killed himself until a couple days after his
00:28:14
death so the FBI and the police they go to his apartment and they're going to ransack the place
00:28:21
they're going to look for anything to connect them to Amy's case right or any other case the problem is the family's
00:28:28
already cleaned out his apartment by the time that they get there great so where
00:28:33
this statement comes from of the suicide note the quote-unquote suicide note makes no mention of
00:28:43
of Amy or the case is that is a statement when when he asked law enforcement about the suicide note can I
00:28:51
see the suicide note he was told by them no you can't see it but it makes no reference to Amy or to Amy's case so
00:29:00
that was that was a statement that was given to him by somebody else and he believed it was given to him by a person
00:29:06
who had read or seen the note now there are some family members of Billy streuneck that believe that he
00:29:18
committed this crime really but they don't they don't give any reasons why do they give you which member like mother
00:29:25
father I think it might be a cousin I think there's a cousin on record saying I think the cousin says something kind of
00:29:34
nonchalantly like yeah everyone in the family thinks he did it or something like that right right now here's the
00:29:41
thing so it could be a situation where the family actually thinks he did it but they're not going to come out and say it
00:29:47
protecting them in death if that makes sense well I don't know I mean you have one family member saying yeah we all
00:29:53
think he did it right but I'm on the record everybody else oh yeah yeah everybody else so so you had one person
00:30:00
that broke protocol and said hey hey just to let you know we all think he did it we're just not talking about that
00:30:07
public but again cleaning out the apartment can go either way it's just a family either a it's just a family doing
00:30:14
its family duties right or B they believe they need to hide something I I don't think it points to anything in
00:30:23
particular I just found it odd and I wanted to I wanted to ask him how can you say that it the note didn't have
00:30:30
anything to do with Amy right but saying the FBI confiscated the note in in I've
00:30:35
never seen it so he was able to clear that up real real good I thought and the the funny thing here is
00:30:45
you have local law enforcement that actually don't believe that Billy streuneck killed Amy mihalovic so you
00:30:52
have an FBI agent that pops into town for two days and in his according to the four or five
00:30:58
pages he wrote about it in his book he makes it sound like it's it's open and shut case open and shut case and then
00:31:04
you have local law enforcement that would later tell people investigating look Billy strunek had a lot of reasons
00:31:11
to kill himself even if you don't have Amy in the equation well right and that's what I was kind of
00:31:18
saying it's like we don't know what his mental health was but we do know that and and I'm serious
00:31:27
about this because I've been there and and not so much on a depression thing but on a loneliness thing and okay
00:31:39
that might sound silly like well you're lonely so therefore you're depressed but
00:31:43
it was almost like a different animal trying to deal with just being lonely and and like just couldn't get out of that
00:31:53
state because because I was not I wasn't around anybody there was no quick fix there was no just call your
00:32:00
father and go visit your father go visit your mom go call your brothers you know
00:32:04
I mean call your sister you know I mean there's none of that so it's just like and and maybe this guy was a little
00:32:12
socially awkward and therefore he's doesn't have a great relationship with his family he's going back to his
00:32:17
efficiency every night and that could I mean they're they're all there needs to be is
00:32:23
a couple reasons so when they say there's more than enough reasons it's like again and like I said
00:32:32
if if on some level I don't want to feel bad for this guy but it's like on some level it's like if
00:32:40
the guy could have been in his efficiency I'm just I'm just speaking hypotheticals here but he could have
00:32:46
been in his efficiency watching the TV saw that this girl went missing he felt really bad about it he tried to get
00:32:52
involved he tried to be nice to their family he's so socially awkward that then the FBI shows up at his house
00:33:01
that could have bothered him and then the girl is found and that could have been that's it and
00:33:10
so it could have been it could be directly related to her death without him being guilty without him
00:33:18
being guilty is what I'm saying because you know it's um I mean look I I I I don't want to go off
00:33:27
on too much of a tangent I want to stay on your story but it's like yeah I remember listening to this podcast one
00:33:32
time and it said go join groups you know and and by joining activities that that would be a good way to make
00:33:42
friends you know especially in a town where you don't know anybody well man like the first like three or
00:33:47
four times you go to like an event like I went to spin class or CrossFit class or or just any exercise class because I
00:33:54
was that really the only thing to do in that town or like you'd go to like the coffee shop
00:34:00
and you would end up talking to the uh the Barista guy and he's like hey by the way I played piano and you're like [ __ ]
00:34:06
I mean music I'm a musician and then you're sitting there you feel like such a dork because you're
00:34:12
just like what are you going to do ask the guy for his number so you can hang out
00:34:17
you know what I mean and and so I just know so all I'm saying is it's very likely that if he thought of this
00:34:27
organization as a way to um and and I was in a very lonely state if I would have went uh to a spin class and
00:34:38
walked in and heard people calling me a weirdo like oh man he I that would have crushed me you know well he he was
00:34:46
ultimately asked to um I don't know if he was asked or told that he couldn't volunteer there anymore
00:34:53
right and that would be enough and I'm telling you because I was in that state and if I would have walked in to a spin
00:34:59
class and heard some of the people that I tried to make small conversation with just just to say I mean I didn't even
00:35:06
just say hi I mean first couple times have gone it's like you just wouldn't put your head down and do the class you
00:35:13
know but to like then you know like after Clash or like walking down you'd be like that's that was really tough
00:35:19
class today because you don't know to say you know I mean and so if this guy was in that state that I know I was in
00:35:26
and they would if they would have came to me and said you can't come to spin class anymore because you're looking at
00:35:32
the girls butts a little too long or whatever I that would have crushed me well this
00:35:37
one I don't know if it would have thrown me over the edge but I was pretty close
00:35:40
this was a place that was asking for volunteers that's I mean probably why he just went out there and showed up and
00:35:46
volunteered his time [Music] [Applause]