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foreign [Music] [Applause] [Music] welcome to True Crime garage wherever you are whatever you are doing thanks
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for listening I'm your host Nick and with me as always is a man that knows that there's a bunch of savages in this
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town here is the captain a bunch of True Crime Savages it's good to be seen and it's good to see you thanks for
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listening thanks for telling the friends [Music] this week we are drinking Zombie Dust by
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one of the best in the business Three Floyds Brewing Company this intensely hopped and gushing Undead pale ale will
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be one's only respite after the zombie apocalypse this pale ale is hoppy clean and smooth garage grade four and a
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quarter bottle caps out of five and let's give some cheers to our friends who helped us out with this week's beer
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run a big cheers to these Savages right here first up cheers to Jessica and reads Spring Missouri and a big we like
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your jib to Christy in Oregon City Oregon how about a little please and thank you to our friend Amy down in
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Bulldog country Mississippi and a big shout out to Crystal in Cookeville Tennessee all right Captain here we go
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we have a big cheers to Laura B in Newark Delaware and last but certainly not least we have our friend Kelly in
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Rancho Cordova California thank you to everyone that helped us out with this week's beer fun yeah say it with me b-we
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double r u n beer run for all of our old episodes check us out everywhere and if you need more True Crime Garage
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in your ear balls check out our bonus show on Stitcher premium it's called off the Record and that is enough of the
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business all right everybody gather round grab a chair grab a beer let's talk some true crime
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[Music] thank you foreign [Music] [Music] I was working a giant schnauzer by the
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name of ammo and uh he was at cross-trained to be a cadaver dog I was contacted by the
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Hammond Police Department and they took me to a house and they said that they uh
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I had a suspect and they had several missing children in the area messing boys in the area and they wanted to know
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if my dog could go into the basement of this house and conduct a search for him so I put the dog into the basement and
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gave him this command to search and he went to a corner of the house in the back corner of the basement and
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he was trained to do what's called an aggressive response which is to scratch yeah you know like he's digging yeah and
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he didn't he didn't do that he went to the far corner of the house and just stood there and barked so I pulled him
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back out and I redirected him again to do a search and he went back to that corner and did nothing but bark
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[Music] he's not trained trying to give an aggressive response however Prudence would dictate we better
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bust up some concrete here and take a look because there's a reason why the dog won't leave this spot
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well I cleared the area and about a week later I was contacted by the Hamlin police to come back again
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went back to the exact same residence and what they had done is they had taken a drill and started tried to drill
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through the concrete and they discovered that they went down about 10 inches and there was absolutely
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they was still solid concrete so uh they went back to the other side of the basement and did the same thing
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started a bore hole there went down about six eight inches and gave up so they asked me to send the dog again
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so I did and this time the dog went to the hole in the it would have been the southwest corner and he started
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scratching very aggressively so I pulled him off and the detective told me he said man I didn't get that on videotape
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can you do it again I said sure So I got the dog back he got the videotape up I sent the dog and the dog instead of
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going back to that hole went to the other hole which would have been about halfway along the west wall and
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started scratching there so they got that on videotape so after that I told them that uh they
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should break up they have to break up the concrete now you know that we've got an aggressive response so I cleared and
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uh I don't know about three days later four days later they contacted me again and sent me back to the same house
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this time when I got there they had a concrete expert who had determined that this guy had whoever the guy was who put
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this concrete in the basement had used bags and this was David most and he had used he had to use like some
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phenomenal amount like 80 bags of concrete or some phenomenal amount they also brought in a forensic
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entomologist who found evidence of coffin flies in the spider webs in the basement
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coffin flies or species of fly that's indicative of Rotting Flesh but it doesn't have to be humid it could be
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chickens pigs beef anything like that but they did divide they did find evidence of coughs and flies in the
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spider webs in the basement okay the uh they also brought in a pathologist out of Indianapolis
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and what they had done is they determined it all across the back of the basement the concrete was 16 to 18
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inches thick so they moved out to where they could uh get a little bit the concrete was thinner where the older
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concrete was which is only several inches and they broke a hole probably about the a circle about as big as a
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garbage can and uh they had me send the dog well as soon as I sent the dog the dog dove into
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the hole and started throwing dirt like crazy digging very aggressively sweet pulled him out of the hole
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and once I got him out then the pathologist knelt down and started feeling underneath into the dirt and he
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felt he said what feels like a human leg joint knee joint encased in a plastic bag
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so they broke up the concrete on the Southwest end and they discovered two bodies there that were wrapped in
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plastic and buried under 16 to 18 inches of concrete they then went to the west end where the
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North End of the West wall where the dog had made the second alert on the different hole and they broke that one
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up and they just third body the third body was uh this guy had apparently had to fill a bathtub full of
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a blue lead-based paint and he had just had to continually dunk this body in this blue lead-based paint because the
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body was in completely encased in paint about a half inch thick and then it was wrapped in plastic also
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I don't know maybe that was something to try to keep this the smell down I have no idea what the what the paint was for
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and and I do remember that they found uh when they did x-rays they found things inserted in the bodies through the
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rectum like bottles or coat hangers or something I don't recall exactly what end up in the room they did discover a
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map with uh x's on it where he had we don't know but assumed that he had gone to
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various places across the country on his way up from Texas and these exes we don't know what they meant
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[Music] foreign the voice you just heard there in today's trailer is that of canine
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detective Dale Bach as you heard he was brought in to help a local law enforcement agency in Hammond Indiana to
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have his canine search a home more specifically the basement of an apartment in this particular situation
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the canine is acting in a cadaver search role brought in because the search for some missing teens led a Hammond Police
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Department detective to that apartment so how exactly did we end up here in the basement of an apartment in Northwest
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Indiana well the investigation started on September 10 2003 when the phone rang at the police department in Hammond
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Indiana a woman named Lynn Smith reported her 16 year old son James ragani was missing
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and I apologize if I did not pronounce that correctly it's regaini or ragani I believe oddly enough another mother
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Holly gilkinson had also called and reported that her son too was missing her son is 13 year
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old Michael Dennis he had not come home the night before okay we have two missing teens here Captain a guy James
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16 another guy Michael he's 13. most of the time what this is going to say to Small Town Police is well we have a
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situation where a teenage boy got fed up at home or maybe he's super rebellious and decided to run off for a little bit
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yeah or he stayed over at a friend's house and forgot to tell his parents the problem with this situation is we have
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runaway notes that were left for the family to find the other problem that we have for law enforcement is look there
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are no dummies they're going wait a second two kids run away on the same day these two kids were friends and from
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what I could find there was no mention of oh I'm running away with James or I'm running away with Michael right but
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there's a possibility that law enforcement has to look at of course they're going to look at that situation
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and they're also going to wonder if in fact these two were runaways as said the boy's parents produced runaway notes
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from their sons which said that they had run off but these notes were very vague
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about where they were going there were a few different places listed in these short notes some people say runaway
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letters I've reviewed some of these these are very short notes the ragani parents also received a voicemail from a
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phone number that was later traced back to a rest area off of I-65 near Roselawn
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I do not have any details about what that voicemail was or who they believe the the voice was I I have
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to believe captain that they the voicemail came from their son or else it would have been highly suspicious from
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the get right now these notes we said they were vague well they were so the notes were simple they
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were as such I'm tired with the way things are at home I'm leaving I'm heading to Chicago
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um one note said I'm moving out to either California or maybe Washington State haven't decided yet I'll come back
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when I turn 18. hmm so when you get your freedom you're going to come back well if you are to
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believe that these kids ran away they're they're leaving the notes to make sure Mom and Dad don't think that they're
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dead and murdered right uh that they're showing enough care for their parents to
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let them know hey I took off here's the reasons why and here's some places that I might go one of the notes said that
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they were going to Texas the weird thing here Captain is I do not know how many notes were in the possession of the
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parents when they made the calls that their sons were missing to begin with but what I do know happened was there
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were multiple notes left by both boys short little notes that they seem to like kind of hide around their homes
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like an Easter egg hunt that you know Mom would find one and then maybe a couple days later find another one
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that's that's very strange very strange and then second of all like let's to forsake a confusion do you know if these
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were like actual like full Pages or again these were very short notes maybe a maybe a paragraph a couple sentences
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at best but what I found incredibly strange and I'm sure this weirded out the parents big time
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is let's say that James left three different notes for his parents to find or that Michael left three different
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notes for his parents to fight so to save everyone the confusion we'll just say runaway notes a b and c right in each
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situation well when Mom would find runaway note a it would say hey I've been fed up I
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can't take it at home I don't like school maybe I'm going to Chicago I'll call you in a couple months
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well then a few days later she finds runaway note B it kind of contradicts everything that
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was said in runaway no a where it's you know the the next note may say hey I've got a job out on the
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west coast all lined up I'm running away out there and I'll reach out to you when
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I turn 18 or I'll come back when I turn 18. so this is going to be weird one for
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the parents they got to be highly alarmed and two for law enforcement because if you are going to try to
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figure out where these boys went especially a situation with the 13 year old Michael Dennis well law enforcement
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knows that these guys know each other so I think once you find multiple notes at
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one location and then you find multiple notes at the other location then you go hey these are connected somehow right
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and so then you now have to determine one did either of these boys go where they said they were going which there
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was communication sent from the Hammond PD out to these other jurisdictions but again it's very vague you can't just
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it's not easy to reach out to every jurisdiction in California or Washington State and say hey do you got anybody
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that matches this description running around there right but we also don't know if the locations match up with each
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other what will be easier for the Hammond Police Department to determine is are these boys still in the area for any
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reason at all when kids are not getting along with parents they say that they're
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running away the first people you want to talk to in your investigation are these kids friends because kids tell
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their friends more than they tell Mom and Dad so police start asking around trying to determine whether these two
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boys were in fact runaways or if something maybe happened to them or if they were still in the area they came
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across some kids who were buddies with the two missing boys they told them that Michael and James spent some time
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hanging around with an older guy in the neighborhood that summer this was a guy known as Crazy Dave
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locally in the neighborhood he's known as Crazy Dave so not someone you want to hear your kids are hanging out with if
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your parents of Dennis or Michael yeah and is he like really crazy and spells it with a K what they are able to
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determine is these kids are hanging out with this dude named Crazy Dave of course detectives want to figure out who
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the hell is Crazy Dave they start asking around and they learn that crazy Dave's
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real name was David Edward moust Michael Dennis had met Mouse at a community pool that summer oh my God no
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kid should ever meet a doll had a pool well yes weird weird weird weird but the other thing that we need to teach our
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kids even and remind our teenagers is there's no reason for adults and children to be friends
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there's no reason for adults and children to for adults to give gifts to Children there's no reason for adults to
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ask help from a child there's no reason for adults to ask a child to keep a secret these are all huge red flags now
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if we're talking about somebody that's friends with Mom and Dad you know there are some some ways to get around that
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but in this specific situation around that it makes seem like the person's trying to do something bad now there's
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plenty of people that are become mentors to you know younger but that's all stuff
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that you should share with Mom and Dad right this isn't things that you should keep from your parents if if an adult is
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is a friend with a child or asking a child for help asking a child to keep a secret or
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giving them gifts that needs to be shared with Mom and Dad because that's not something that should happen it's
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not something that's normal right so what we have here is now detectives are going to return to the families of these
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missing boys and say hey look this is what we've come up with so far some of the other kids have said that they may
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have been hanging out with this older guy that we know is Crazy Dave and we've now figured out his real name is David
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Edward Mouse and he spells crazy with a K and Dennis's mom Michael Dennis's mom Holly confirmed
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that her son did spend a lot of time with mouse she was aware of this saying that her son spent time with him and on
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one occasion he came home with a pair of new shoes that he said Dave gave to him
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and another time he came home with some stereo equipment maybe she was hopeful that it was like a Daniel's son Mr
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Miyagi type relationship like they're just sitting around learning karate so these detectives
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learned that the boys like to hang out at Mouse apartment this was on the second floor of a house located at
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4933 Ash Street in Hammond Indiana the people they spoke to said that they had been there six or seven times that
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the boys had been there about six or seven times these other teenagers are telling police that Mouse would give
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them beer cigarettes and money you know other teenagers had gone to this guy's apartment Detectives
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ran David moust name through the system and discovered that he had a record surprise surprise so
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they decided to pay a little visit to Mr Crazy Dave moust and stopped by his apartment
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so detective Ron Johnson of the Hammond PD visited this David Mouse at his place
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on September 18th he found Mr moust in the backyard smoking a cigarette and enjoying a beer
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Mouse did not seem nervous at all at the appearance or the arrival of the officer
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well to be fair he was buzzed and he didn't feel nervous at all answering any questions in fact detective Ron Johnson
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said the mouse was extremely friendly and very courteous to the detective so much so that he permitted the
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detective to look through his apartment you know a guy shows up with no warrant he says sure I got nothing to hide I can
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answer all your questions go ahead and look through my apartment so the detective is in there he's asking Mouse
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questions opening closets and checking under beds and such but there was no sign of either of the missing boys at
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the apartment well if you take a look at David he looks like if you take Nick Nolte Nick Nolte and the Ultimate
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Warrior had a baby that came out a little disheveled maybe drinks too much smokes too much how could that baby not
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come out disheveled right that's that's what he looks like though so nevertheless flat neck he has a big fat
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neck too police remain suspicious of David Mouse who had just finished parole for a previous crime and detective
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Johnson says he was even though this guy was nice answered all of his questions and such he said I was suspicious of him
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right away and this is a judge a book by its cover situation because the detective says
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straight out mouse was quote different and that ball is different when asked later well what do you mean by different
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he says if you would have seen him you would have said he's different he almost looks like he's stuck in the
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80s well police staked out his place hoping to see some sign of these missing boys right that maybe they're coming
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back and returning to his apartment maybe they're just running around having a good time and this is somebody that
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they could either crash with on occasion or go back to his apartment to party yeah that makes sense they contacted the
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other jurisdictions that had been mentioned in the runaway notes we already discussed the complications with
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that asking if anybody had seen these missing boys now you have a situation where you probably are believing that
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the two boys left together so that helps you a little bit when you reach out you're not just looking for one teenage
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boy you're looking for two teenage boys at this point which may be a little easier meanwhile local prosecutors
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that I love when people do good work I love when people say you know what we're going to do our jobs we have a a service
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a community to take care of and to protect this guy even if he doesn't know anything about these runaway boys
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he's a problem so the prosecutor local prosecutors filed a misdemeanor charge of contributing to the delinquency of a
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minor against David moust this was on October 2nd this was because of what the other kids told the police about the
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underage beer drinking pot smoking and things that were going on at Mouse place you know he's providing underage kids
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with beer and marijuana and they're hanging out at his place so Mouse posted the 300 Bond and he was released
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he continued to talk casually with the detectives about the missing boys but not really admitting anything at the
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time the police contacted the landlord and the owner of the house where mouse was a tenant right they found out from
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this owner his name was Bill Hinton that mouse was employed he was an employee at
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a trophy shop that the homeowner owned as well he also told them because David looks exactly like a guy
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that works at a trophy shop like what's his job he works at a trophy shop he also told them that Mouse had
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done some work in the basement of the home that he had repaired some seepage on the floor
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so detective Johnson went back to the home to inspect this work that maust had done on the basement floor
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when he went to the basement he discovered a new concrete pad in the southwestern corner of the basement this
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is interesting and I know a lot of people are probably saying well why wouldn't the detective have searched the
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basement to begin with I think the situation here is the way that it was explained to me is that there were
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multiple tenants living in this house in these different apartments that were broken up through this house when the
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detective was first questioned Mouse in it in the backyard of this property and Mal said yeah sure go ahead look through
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my apartment I'll be happy to take you inside and show you everything come on in it's a nice place he's simply showing
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him his apartment there are spaces throughout this home that are common spaces that are shared amongst the
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tenants yeah shared by the other pedos and so the detective probably didn't check the basement because either a he
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wasn't suspicious of the basement because it was a common place or B he didn't feel that he had permission to
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do so because there were multiple tenants and maust was not the owner of the home itself it's not like when the
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police officer comes up and starts talking to David and and they go hey do you mind if we search her apartment and
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he goes come on in it's a nice place it's not like you can just spend days in there
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well not only that I was having this discussion with somebody a week or so ago and had to point out that a really
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good detective in a really good officer especially if they're in a situation where they're suspicious of the
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individual that they're talking with or suspicious of a crime scene or potential
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crime scene right a good detective and a good police officer is always working with the knowledge of knowing that the
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most important thing here is that I secure a conviction that whatever my actions are will later hold up in a
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court of law and so if I step over the line at any point and this guy is my guy like I
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believe him to be well I might run the risk of losing that conviction in the court of law so what
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good have I done none with the permission from the homeowner now detective Johnson is in the basement and
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he he's checking out this new concrete pad that was poured in the southwestern corner of the basement I found a source
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that said that the the pad was determined to be approximately eight foot by five foot and 12 inches thick or
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12 inches deep and the homeowner did consent to not just a quick look-see at the basement but he also consented to a
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detailed search of the basement as well and this comes about because detective Johnson says look I was down there in
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this area it would be very common in this area of the state of India it would be very common for people to repair
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their basements in this way to pour additional concrete and that is so that you have of if you have a washer and
00:28:34
dryer in the basement that you are placing it on an elevated platform on a platform so that if you
00:28:41
were to have your basement floods then these items are not getting wet because they're elevated yeah that makes
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sense so at first he says he wasn't suspicious of the concrete pad but then knowing what he knows from living in the
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area he applied that to oh wait a second the water hookup is way over here so if that was the purpose of this
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concrete pad it made no sense at all because you would want to create that platform as close as you could to the
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water hookup he's super suspicious of this so the police decide that on November 20th this is detective Johnson
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and Commander Dale Bach of the Lake County Sheriff's Department again he's the one that you heard in today's
00:29:28
trailer they come back on the 20th of November to search the basement again at 4933 Ash Street more like Ash Street
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this is with the trained cadaver dog now the dog showed considerable interest in
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the one end of the basement and this is the corner with the concrete pad the dog
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is telling you you've trained me to find cadavers yeah I'm telling you I believe
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that there's a dead body underneath this concrete in this corner of this basement
00:30:02
well like you said with this K-9 unit like he's trained to be diver dog but he's also trained to search for people's
00:30:09
scents so it I wonder if they thought maybe he was confused well every canine unit is different it all goes to
00:30:17
training some have the ability to be trained in different areas some don't I I don't know the specifics of this
00:30:23
particular dog but in this situation we do know he's being used to find a cadaver he's not he's not being brought
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in there to find a missing person [Music] foreign [Music] we're back cheers everybody cheers to
00:31:10
you Colonel he's back I'm back everybody's back everyone's in the face all right uh the
00:31:18
dog again the canine Officer showing considerable amounts of signs that hey he's detecting something underneath the
00:31:26
concrete in the corner of this basement yeah but he's not acting as normal right right he's supposed to
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he's trained to give a very aggressive response to when he finds when he's hitting on something and that's not the
00:31:42
response he's giving here you have to wonder if in fact if the K-9 unit if the officer is correct
00:31:51
and people are getting confused because some people are like you know I'm referring to the dog as the officer
00:31:56
because he is an officer so we'll pay him his respects um if he is one we want to be respectful
00:32:03
and just in case he's listening that's right um just in case he's listening um but if in fact the the canine Officer
00:32:12
is correct that he that there is something underneath that concrete I don't again I don't know this
00:32:19
particular dog I do not know the training is he giving a different response because it's a faint right you
00:32:27
know is is the detection faint I I think we we can just move past that because whatever the dog was doing to indicate
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that there was something there and that they should do further searching of this area it was enough for
00:32:42
them to bring in technicians and they're going to drill some sample holes in the
00:32:48
pad you don't want to go in there and Jackhammer the whole thing up if you don't have to you can just drill some
00:32:54
holes and see if there's anything down there this portion of the search was conducted on December 5th
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when they drilled holes into this concrete pad Captain coffin flies flew out of these holes
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coffin flies coffin flies are indicative of there being a decaying body now it doesn't have to be human it
00:33:18
can be animal or or something else but they would not be there if there was nothing for them to
00:33:25
be this is pretty gross living off of so on December 9th after one second let me finish my lunch now the police have
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probable cause to to tear up the place right so on December 9th just four days later police brought in equipment to
00:33:45
take up the concrete pad or concrete slab very quickly into this search they found
00:33:54
two bodies which is two more bodies than are supposed to be there they were able
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to determine almost immediately that the the bodies were that of teenagers or young men right these two bodies that
00:34:10
were found were wrapped in plastic and tied with cord and tape oh one second I mean we have to applaud the officer both
00:34:18
officers I guess the dog is officer but you have to applaud where your dog is trained to make a certain reaction he
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doesn't react like he's supposed to gives you an odd reading but you go hey better safe than sorry right might as
00:34:37
well dig this up and and yes yeah nobody wants to find anything but at the end of
00:34:43
the day when you have these missing kids you're trying to find answers so right away you're looking for two missing
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teens and you find the bodies of what you can determine to be either teenage boys or young men
00:34:59
right so when you think about it Captain these other teens the the ones that told
00:35:04
police and Detectives that these kids were hanging out with some guy named Crazy Dave these other
00:35:12
kids were in fact quite lucky that they did not end up killed yeah you know these were teens that hung out with this
00:35:19
crazy Dave as well or at least one had been to his apartment these kids knew about Crazy Dave knew about the
00:35:26
activities going on at Dave's apartment with him providing alcohol and such to the teens
00:35:32
one of the teens in particular says that he was with James and Michael on what is believed to be the last night
00:35:42
that the two were alive he told the detective that he went with James and Michael to Dave Mouse apartment
00:35:49
and he left at some point in the night and he he said that when he left James and Michael stayed there and they were
00:35:58
alive of course when he left the apartment so immediately we have Dave moust who we
00:36:05
we need to arrest this man so he was in fact arrested on that same day this is again December 9 2003. they pick him up
00:36:13
while he's riding his bicycle home from work but here's the troubling part I think finding the two bodies in the
00:36:20
basement is the troubling part but riding a bike to work is kind of Rich Man Poor Man rich man uses it for
00:36:26
exercise poor man uses it as a vehicle look nothing against this Hinton character but I can't imagine that the
00:36:33
job at the trophy shop pays very well and he's living in a rundown apartment this is not a guy that's riding a
00:36:40
bicycle for exercise yeah but you could always like use the line when women came
00:36:44
in like why do you work at the trophy store I'm looking for my trophy wife but here's the troubling thing captain
00:36:52
uh you mean the two dead teenage bodies buried in concrete is not troubling enough
00:36:59
it is not well the troubling part here is the two that were found in the basement were identified via dental
00:37:07
records one was the missing Michael Dennis that we were looking for you know as anyone would expect but the other was
00:37:14
identified as 19 year old Nick James well so not the other kid that they were looking for Nick had been missing since
00:37:22
May of 2003. this is December of 2003 when they find the bodies the more you study True Crime the more you just see
00:37:31
similarities and so many things uh look at the type of victim is teenage boys Gacy would put them in the crawl
00:37:41
space this guy seems to just be putting them into concrete Nick had been missing
00:37:46
since May of 2003 he in fact worked at the trophies R Us shop with David moust and Nick was reported missing by his
00:37:56
girlfriend but he said Nick was 19. correct because you'd think okay look law enforcement has two missing kids
00:38:04
that you'd think that they would go oh yeah there's also another missing kid from the trophy shop oh they hang out
00:38:11
with Crazy Dave where does Crazy Dave work the trophy shop you'd think they'd be putting this all
00:38:17
together but maybe what I'm saying is maybe they didn't put it together in that manner because he was 19. right
00:38:25
that that's where my head went immediately but the other thing too is maybe they did put it together it's just
00:38:31
now you're looking for a 19 year old as well I don't know that you're announcing
00:38:36
that to anyone uh when you're surveilling David moust so Paul Goddard was Nick James's best friend the 19 year old that
00:38:45
was found in the basement he said that the two of them spent a lot of time with David moust
00:38:52
and he said that David was generous giving them cash and beer and said quote he never asked for anything I just
00:38:59
thought that he being you know David was being a nice guy this is what Paul told
00:39:05
the Munster Indiana Times newspaper yeah he only asked for hand jobs so then police excavated a third body
00:39:15
it was proved to be James ragani the other missing teen now the cause of death for the three
00:39:22
victims this is per the the times again quote Lake County coroner David pasterick said
00:39:30
he had not ruled out Suffocation and strangulation as a cause of death for bagani and for Dennis the two that
00:39:39
police initially started off looking for right they said that Nick James died of
00:39:44
blunt force trauma to the skull David mouse was charged with three counts of murder they also charged him for having
00:39:52
a fat neck the Hammond neighborhood went into an uproar over this crazy Dave guy
00:40:01
right because David moust is living in their small town and unbeknownst to them he's he's living there
00:40:12
but the reason why they're in an uproar is it turned out that David Mouse had a very serious criminal record
00:40:20
right in fact he was a twice convicted murderer living in their neighborhood he's been convicted twice of murder
00:40:31
correct and he has he lives in an apartment with other people and has the Stellar job at the trophy shop yeah this
00:40:39
this highly desirable job I'm just saying that he's he's living better than some people living better than the
00:40:46
colonel I wonder if he gets unlimited trophies like unlimited free Trophies the idea that this dude was out free
00:40:54
living in this small town and hanging out with kids terrified the residents many of whom
00:41:02
said that they planned to move away from the area even though David moust was now
00:41:07
behind bars in all fairness eventually the state of Indiana would pass a law requiring that convicted murderers must
00:41:15
register with local officials when they moved to a new location so David mouse was not from this area well thank God
00:41:23
they corrected that if sexual offenders have to register on a sexual offender's website or whatever murderers should
00:41:30
have to do the same so Mouse now in handcuffs well he was in for a six-hour interview
00:41:38
session with detectives Mouse confessed to The Killing saying that others had helped him commit the murders even
00:41:46
naming his landlord is one of the accomplices again again I I the comparisons with
00:41:55
this individual and and Gacy are very similar I mean Daisy once he was arrested was saying
00:42:03
hey it wasn't just me there's multiple people involved moust also implicated his old cellmate from time served in the
00:42:12
state of Illinois and he implicated another neighborhood teen saying he helped as well
00:42:20
I don't think that he's sitting there saying the four of us killed these three guys
00:42:26
I think what he's saying is is a situation where he's telling a story and it's changing as we go along here yeah
00:42:34
I'll give him a trophy for being a douche but in the end Captain he admitted to all three of the murders and
00:42:40
he said that he did all three of them on his own now for some reason we have a written
00:42:47
statement pertaining to James ragani's murder but not the other two so the details are a little tricky on
00:42:56
some of these murders here yeah David Mouse signed a confession stating that on September 9th 2003 at his apartment
00:43:06
James ragani had been drinking beer and doing shots and got sick and at 11 45 PM David Mouse took a rope
00:43:16
and put it around James's neck and strangled him until he was dead he then wrapped his body in plastic and took it
00:43:24
to the basement and later put cement over his body but he was has said I mean he he's telling these
00:43:34
stories but it's very obvious to detectives that this dude's responsible for all three of the murders
00:43:41
a Lake County prosecutor Bernard Carter said quote basically he drugged them with alcohol and the date rape drug and
00:43:48
then strangled them the first one the first victim he means Nicholas James he hit in the head with a baseball bat and
00:43:55
then strangled him he said meaning David moust that the first one was too bloody of an attack so
00:44:04
he decided to strangle the others so he he's saying that he killed all three of them the same day
00:44:11
no okay so at different times Nicholas James was a separate situation altogether right that when he went
00:44:19
missing back in May that's when Nicholas James was killed right the other two boys were killed September 9th of that
00:44:27
same year but what mouse is explaining to detectives in his confession that look I I hit the one over the head with
00:44:36
a baseball bat and realize later that's not a good method of killing because now I got all this blood
00:44:44
everywhere that I have to deal with yeah everybody listened to that statement we
00:44:48
have a murderer telling you that if you hit somebody in the head when their heart is still beating there's blood
00:44:54
everywhere it's too bloody of a scene again can connect the dots in other cases like Sean Benet Ramsey if she was
00:45:04
hit on the head first there would have been blood everywhere David moust admitted to detectives that he would on
00:45:09
occasion visit the basement to continue to talk to his victims after they were buried in the floor
00:45:18
what you heard me right so he's drinking yeah I'm gonna go down to the basement and
00:45:25
I'm gonna go talk to the concrete because he's missing one of his buddies that he killed I'm
00:45:32
reading between the lines here Captain but what I think actually went down is I believe that they found all three
00:45:38
victims at the same time when they were digging up that slab because as said it's determined or reported that it was
00:45:45
eight foot by five foot by 12 inches deep that's not that big of a concrete slab and we have three victims in that
00:45:54
concrete slab where I think that we have the speed bump in the investigation is that two of the bodies were wrapped in
00:46:04
plastic that was tied with rope or some type of cord right the third body for reasons only David Mouse could
00:46:14
explain was completely dipped or you know I guess it wouldn't be dipped but uh covered in
00:46:23
lead-based paint Blue lead based paint and mouse said basically that he took the body
00:46:32
of this victim placed it in the bathtub covered it in this paint and we're talking about
00:46:39
an inch thick covering the body at all points he states that uh he did this so that it
00:46:47
would conceal the odor of the body that nobody would be able to smell or detect the dead body I guess uh
00:46:55
the smell of paint is better than dead body as for the runaway notes detectives believe that Mouse lured the
00:47:03
uh Lord the boys to his apartment of course with Promises of some kind of trip okay remember we talked about them
00:47:12
leaving notes for their parents this misdirecting the investigation or hoping that the parents don't go looking for
00:47:19
the kids they figured out that moust was the he spearheaded them leaving these notes for their parents
00:47:26
this was all his idea so to me this is looking more and more like a premeditated murder situation right what
00:47:35
he said to these these boys is that look I I have access to a lot of money I have access to a lot of drugs I need you
00:47:46
to run some errands for me and you can make a lot of money in the process and hold on a second if any any young
00:47:54
teenage boys listening and you hear this from somebody remind yourself that he he rides a bicycle to
00:48:02
work he works in a trophy shop and he lives in an apartment with multiple people and his only friends are the
00:48:09
friends that he's giving booze to and those individuals can't buy booze I wouldn't really believe that he has
00:48:15
connections to a bunch of money somewhere because if he did he probably would have called in those favors by now
00:48:21
well if you go off of what I said earlier you're already in the clear adults and children do not need to be
00:48:27
friends for any reason at all yeah my motto is no friends okay um so what they were able to determine
00:48:35
is that Mouse told them that hey I'm going to give you a vehicle and I've set up this vehicle so that we
00:48:45
can conceal drugs in this vehicle and then you're going to drive it out to the West Coast basically you're going to
00:48:52
make a delivery for me and the people there are going to pay for all these drugs that you deliver you're going to
00:48:58
bring the money back to me and then you're going to get a big Hefty cut of everything right and this is how he
00:49:05
enticed them and talk them into leaving these notes for their parents so this was all very much planned out on
00:49:15
his end and even planned out by the kids themselves because they go over there thinking all right well we're friends
00:49:22
with this guy we're going to go on this trip yeah it's kind of sophisticated for
00:49:28
such a disheveled individual the other interesting thing too is that he told investigators that he took the two boys
00:49:37
with him to breakfast at the Roseland I'm sorry Roselawn truck stop on September 9th classy and this was they
00:49:48
were talking more about the trip at this breakfast so you can piece this together this is
00:49:55
where that voicemail came from right this is the same location that they traced it back to so while they're there
00:50:01
he had him so convinced that he had one of the kids call home and leave a voicemail at that time so so we have
00:50:08
three bodies and we know that David was in prison before two other killings so we have a total of
00:50:18
five victims correct I still don't understand how he got out of prison well that's a great
00:50:24
segue because that's what I'm going getting to right here so the Indiana prosecutors knew that mouse was a
00:50:32
suspected serial killer right he's eligible for capital punishment so the prosecutor prosecutor Carter requested
00:50:40
that the death penalty be on the table for the three murders so on October 31st 2005 Mouse took a
00:50:52
plea deal and admitted guilt for all three murders So Crazy Dave mouse was sentenced in
00:50:58
December of 2005 to three consecutive life sentences without the possibility of parole and in his guilty plea Mouse
00:51:09
requested that he be held in isolation away from the general population of the prison now as the captain just mentioned
00:51:17
this monster had killed twice before so who was David moust and why was a twice convicted murderer out living in a nice
00:51:28
Community David moust was the second of four children born to Ava and George moust on April 5th 1954 in the state of
00:51:40
Pennsylvania PA in 1961 the family relocated to Chicago that next year Mouse father left the
00:51:49
family David was only eight years old at this time right there's a lot of uncertainty about Mouse early life and
00:51:57
exactly how screwed up it was so how screwed up he was right so he was eight when his father leaves but do we
00:52:05
have any indication that there was physical abuse or sexual abuse or or verbal abuse that we don't know of as
00:52:14
far as the ages from ages zero to eight but again it's very difficult in this situation to figure out how screwed up
00:52:22
his family life was or how screwed up he was and if who was responsible for that
00:52:29
his his parents were both I feel very fine and confident with saying that both of his parents were dysfunctional
00:52:38
according to the times George moust was orphaned at age 12 and spent the rest of
00:52:44
his life the rest of his juvenile years I should say in foster homes some that were described as sexually abusive Ava
00:52:52
moused his mother spent a month in a mental hospital in Pennsylvania this right after David Mouse birth
00:53:00
hospital records to describe her as quote psychotic her upbringing took place on a Georgia Farm
00:53:08
and has been reported as miserable and depraved according to her sons later defense team in court writings
00:53:18
his mother was beaten by a stepfather with boards and chains and treated as a slave by her mother that sounds
00:53:27
awful with his father gone and a mother that there's no more simple way to put it a mother that either did not want him
00:53:37
or could not handle him his mother David's mother requested that he be institutionalized at the age of
00:53:45
eight I'm sorry at the age of nine yeah so per the times quote Chicago State Hospital
00:53:52
records show that David Mouse earned year yearned for a relationship with his mother but she showed little interest in
00:54:00
him when the staff at the state hospital pressured her to take David Mouse swimming
00:54:06
with a sibling and a later stepfather she told the hospital I'm not taking him I wish he would drown
00:54:15
um so whether Ava loved David and did the best that she could for him or whether she was the reason that he
00:54:24
was screwed up depends on who you're talking to or where you're getting your information because Ava his mother gave
00:54:32
a lot of interviews over the the years and in some she says that David moust was a pretty good kid in that she loved
00:54:39
him she told the Chicago Tribune that she loved her kid and says that when David's father left the family
00:54:47
David started acting out things got bad pretty quickly his little brother Jeffrey recalls David Mouse beating a
00:54:56
squirrel to death with a bat in front of his younger siblings there's also a report that that David
00:55:03
Mouse is a little kid set his three-year-old brother's crib on fire and tried to drown him in the park maybe
00:55:10
when your kid does that you just lock him in the cage and forget about it it's a very difficult situation Captain
00:55:18
because as said was he the actual problem or was his childhood that was not carved out by him
00:55:27
the actual problem yeah it's the chicken of the egg because well but it goes back to who you
00:55:36
talk to and where you get your information from and even with Ava who gave multiple interviews over the years
00:55:43
she gives a different story in different interviews he was a good kid he was a normal kid and it wasn't until he was
00:55:50
nine that he started acting up and I had to get rid of him in other stories he was born bad and he
00:55:56
was trying to kill his little baby brother and and drown his baby brother from a very very early age
00:56:04
it's not both it's it's one or the other yeah I don't think she's gonna award anytime soon for mother of the year
00:56:12
it can't be both these are her words these are words she chose to to give to these people that he was fine he was
00:56:19
completely fine until his dad left then he went off the rails and I had to get rid of him in other interviews she says
00:56:25
that he was born bad that he was evil from day one and that he was trying to kill his little brother at a very early
00:56:35
age that's not the same story so when I say it can't be both we don't know the true story maybe maybe
00:56:43
it was both I'm saying these are her words she pick a story Lady it's one or the
00:56:50
other because they're two very different stories the other thing that you have to
00:56:53
keep in mind too is back then yeah if you just didn't want a child for any number of reasons
00:57:02
you could institutionalize him I'm glad that wasn't around this was I wouldn't say it was a common thing but it was not
00:57:10
it wasn't that unheard of yeah and the reason why I question some of this is that we have the look he's at
00:57:21
nine years old David Mouse is sent to the Cook County mental institution and he describes this location as he
00:57:31
called it the the snake pit and the situation was this that he's he's in this state institution or
00:57:43
the County mental institution there was another child that was there at the same time as David that would be
00:57:51
dropped off in the summer months and then picked up by Mom and Dad at the end of summer
00:57:57
yeah and what's believed is that they simply dropped him off said the kid's crazy and dangerous and we can't handle
00:58:04
him so that they could vacation or not have to deal with this kid when he's not in school people do this I know it's I
00:58:12
know it's sad but uh and it's something you know that nobody wants to talk about
00:58:16
but what kind of people do this pieces of [ __ ] but it's very possible that his mother was a piece of [ __ ] and
00:58:24
decided for whatever reason willy-nilly or or something very serious that she didn't want her her son if we have the I
00:58:33
look look you look we have the the statement from the hospital that when they were trying to encourage mom to
00:58:43
spend time with her son that was institutionalized on one occasion she's taking her current family
00:58:52
on a swimming trip and when asked by the hospital well why wouldn't you take check David out and
00:59:00
take him with you she says I don't want to be around him I wish he would drown that's not the response of a loving
00:59:10
caring parent the other thing that's weird and we do know that some of these types Captain
00:59:16
behave a different way in a very structured environment where there's set rules and and we can imagine that that's
00:59:24
probably what was going on when young David was institutionalized by his mother but we also have the his time
00:59:33
spent there is well documented so these reports say that David moust had no incidence of serious misbehavior during
00:59:42
his years at the hospital he has no documented incidents of lying stealing or out of control behavior all stuff
00:59:53
that that her his mother reported to the hospital as the basis for committing her son the hospital described David as
01:00:04
generally generally described David in their reports as an appealing sensitive and reliable child but he was deeply
01:00:11
disturbed by his parents rejection yeah you think and preoccupied with the threat of abandonment
01:00:17
his father left the family when he was just eight and then his mother [ __ ] drops him off and has him
01:00:25
institutionalized at the age of nine when his mother was asked to be specific about the trouble she claimed David
01:00:33
Mouse caused during his occasional home visits she became evasive and stated that quote she just doesn't want him at
01:00:42
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