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[Applause] [Music] [Applause] one day it started raining in Columbus and it's never going to stop never
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welcome to Portland yeah I'm building an arc um and collecting two of every animal so uh fear not my friends well
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I'm building a moat around the garage so we can have an Empire there was I'm going to call this
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an update Captain I don't know how much of an update it is we'll have to wait to
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see what happens hold our breath and see what happens here but the headline from
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The Oregonian says Frank Gable excited at the prospect of Freedom as state considers option in Michael Frankie case
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so most of you will remember we covered the Michael Frankie case last year in October uh October 9th and 10th of last
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year episodes 245 and 246 and that case is Michael Frankie he was the Oregon Corrections director he
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was murdered 30 years ago on January 17th 1989 in Salem and if you recall correctly he was leaving work that day
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from from what they have dubbed the Dome building and on the way to his vehicle there was some type of struggle that was
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obvious M and he was stabbed to death well Frank Gable is the man that was eventually arrested and tried and
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convicted in that case well the the headline that came out that was that I read was from April 19th of this year
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and the reason why I say that I don't know that that it's much of an update and we'll have to wait and see what
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happens is it sounds like certain people are trying to make some movement to write a
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wrong but you know how the court system works it's it's slow it's slow and then there are other people that are trying
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to to stop this completely so the idea is that we have a judge that came in and said look this guy Frank Gable uh the
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judge says you know I believe that he is innocent of this crime he's been in prison I think since
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1991 and he got life with no with with no possible parole was his conviction so this judge is saying look this guy is
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innocent and we should either do one of two things release him or retry him and I believe that in
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April they put like a 90day there was 90 days on this thing to to figure it out to come to some kind of
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conclusion well we have the mar the Maran County district attorney Paige Clark she has
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assigned two prosecutors to reexamine this case and now the case includes thousands of Records old tape cassettes
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of police interviews and transcripts from The 4-month Trial that took place in 1991 so they're going to review those
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things but I think really the the most fascinating thing to me about this whole situation is we have the victim's family
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we have his brothers Kevin and Patrick who they came forward in a long time ago uh I believe in the mid90s they came
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forward and they said hey this guy that's that's sitting in prison for the murder of our brother we believe him to
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be innocent and the way that this this kind of crumbled and and and fell apart very quickly was this man Frank Gable
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was basically convicted off of these eyewitness accounts and these aren't people that if I recall correctly these
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aren't people that said they saw him kill Michael Frankie right these are individuals that say that they knew that
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he killed him because of this this or this and those people lay came forward and said look I was coerced
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into giving that confession right and then there was one individual that said I I made up a story and told it to
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the police just because I didn't like Frank Gable he he had a beef with Frank Gable so he he made up some kind of
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story well so now we've learned all these years later that what convicted this guy and I believe you and I really
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questioned the conviction when we covered the case because all these people recanted their their story so
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that that's like that's like convicting somebody on DNA and then finding out later the DNA is wrong we were
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completely wrong and so the evidence if you want to call it that convicted this dude it does not exist anymore right and
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but it's also going that DNA evidence is wrong and by the way it's wrong because the the prosecutors and the
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detectives created that DNA mhm so that becomes an issue and it's always going to be an issue on the idea look I I
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wouldn't want to be in their shoes you have pressure to solve these cases you have pressure to charge somebody with
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this there's a man dead somebody needs to be held responsible but we got to get back to a time where it's more about the
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truth and not just well we convicted somebody right right and so the state has has come forward and said well you
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know we we wanted to appeal this decision of either retrying him or releasing him and I don't know the the
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details of this because I'm sure that they're not releasing everything that's happening in these discussions behind
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closed doors but my guess would be that they're probably more so appealing the thought of just releasing this guy MH
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cuz I think probably the the the most the best way to handle this would probably be to retry him maybe they can
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make a determination in advance if if he's allowed to be out on bail or something during you know leading up to
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that re retrial I would love to figure out with these old cassettes of the police
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interviews because a couple of these people that gave statements incriminating statements
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of Frank Gable they've said that look I didn't witness anything I didn't really know anything I just happened to know
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Frank Gable and I told them in advance I didn't know anything that I I don't have
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a story to tell you because I don't I don't know anything right and then later saying I made up a story or I you know
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they helped me fabricate a story and I gave that statement because I felt that I was being threatened by the police by
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the the interrogators and so I would love to see on here if they can figure out you know
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if we have these tape cassettes of the police interviews I would love to know if they
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can figure out hey are are these police officers that are doing and leading these interrogations are they are they
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stopping the tape MH you know and then then it starts up again later stopping the tape starts up again later i' i'
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like to see that should be pretty easy to determine that right away but it it's it's really fascinating to me because
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most of the time when you see something like this it's the victim's family that comes forward and they're like you can't
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let this guy out of prison you can't he doesn't deserve a retrial this guy's absolutely you know
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guilty of killing our loved one mm and this is the complete opposite of that we have not only do we have two brothers
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that have been very vocal about saying look not only do we believe Frank Gable to be innocent
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but we believe that we know who might hold the answers to this case because if Frank Gable is innocent
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then this is an unsolved crime so they have pushed forward and said very publicly that they believe a man named
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John Krauss to I don't think they necessarily think that John Krauss killed their
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brother I think what they're saying is John Krauss knows who did this or had or had some invol involvement with it so
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but again not only saying these things publicly but they've also been raising money and awareness to this case M
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because it probably would have just went away and Frank Gable would have been rotted away in a prison cell for the
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rest of his life no parole and it would have just been forgotten about so uh interesting what the the Frankie family
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is doing uh to to help this thing along so 90 days from April from the mid of April so we should have something May
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June July we should have something I would think by July a a determination of what to do in this case yeah but it's
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very very scary to think that you could be charged with something that you weren't involved in and then you just
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sit and wait for a very like you said Slow system to work itself out right and and that's when they award people a
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lot of money for sitting in prison but you know money doesn't give you time no you know and so it's very no but but
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what it could do is help provide him for a better defense if he is tried again um this is one of those weird cases
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because remember we had we we mentioned at least three other suspects that I can
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think of and the big thing that the judge is saying here is not only not only do we
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have these people who have recanted their statements MH maybe these people are just liars or whatever maybe maybe
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maybe they were telling the truth but he's saying on top of that we have we had other suspects that were not
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presented at trial you know so the the jury and the judges should have cons they would have taken that into
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consideration that there were other suspects one and two we have John Krauss who did confess to the murder of Michael
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Frankie at one point however in all fairness he gave multiple stories to the police
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and the problem with that is we have judges who have reviewed his statements and say look most of them don't line up
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with what we know occurred during this crime during this murder but there there is one of the
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stories that that lines up pretty good but it's difficult when you have a guy that that's given multiple stories call
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them confessions some of them including him as the murderer and other confessions that do not include him as
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the murderer of Michael Frankie yeah well well that's a good update and and hopefully some changes happen soon there
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I kind of want your opinion on this I was looking up this stuff on Scott Peterson not the not the Scott Peterson
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that we all know and love to hate yeah love to hate but I guess this one this guy's uh Boward County sheriff and he
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was assigned to um Douglas High School the Parkland shootings in Florida and he was arrested
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about a month ago and so the question then becomes is cowardice a a crime you know
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he is hired to protect the school he did not they have surveillance footage of him hiding for almost an
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hour um he never set foot in the school that he was sworn to protect and I believe he's uh charged with seven
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felony uh counts because he took cover outside instead of trying to stop the shooter
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he will be the first police officer charged in any school shooting event um and there's a lot of rage towards
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this individual I have not even seen anybody that came forward to say to to have his back on
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anything right and but I think it's very difficult to be the one or one to have his
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back it's not not so much a question of here we have a situation it's not a question of did he do it or did he not
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do it we we have we know he didn't yeah right right and I don't know this he's called the coward of Boward right right
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and I think this is a difficult one because I never like to so much have a have a hard and fast
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rule on on how someone should behave when they scared to death right okay and obviously he didn't do what we all would
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have expected him to do what he agreed to do when he took the oath to Serve and Protect he didn't do
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any of that um but we got to keep in mind he didn't do that because he was scared and Afraid for his own life his
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own safety yeah and that that I think that's the big question is did he you know
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look is there a crime here is there a crime here because what happened you know 11 minutes after after the shooting
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began and he was hiding police officers arrived there were 17 dead um there were
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17 injured and and Peterson kept hiding right he didn't you know once the other police officers were there it wasn't
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like Peterson sprung into action and said here we we go and and we don't know you know maybe Peterson has never been
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tested as far as the fight or flight mentality I've said this before I was doing bear crawls where you're really
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low to the ground and to the right of where we're doing bear crawls were box jumps and box
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jumps are notorious for if you miss you can get some nasty cuts on your shins well I saw some lady Shin get split from
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her ankle to her knee and it like opened up and it looked like you know whale blubber was spewing out and I instantly
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got up put my hands in the air and walked to the other side of the gym going oh my God and that was my
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first real uh moment of I mean I'm sure there was moments when I was a kid but the first
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one where I was like that that's fight or flight and I was not fighting I took off running um where a lot of people
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once she's like oh something is wrong there's a bunch of people that ran to her real quickly you know and so then it
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becomes to me it's like was Peterson even in control of himself you know fight or flight or
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fight or or or hide you just wonder if he was just just so in shock that he hid and
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just was frozen and should he be charged with these seven seven F felony accounts
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it it's weird to me we normally charge people for their actions not in action well I I will say outright that I
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that I'm a huge proponent of you know fire him take away his pension yeah because he I mean he's not a police
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officer let's let's let's face it he may have wore the uniform and carried a badge and gun for years but he's at the
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heart of it he's not what he signed up to do so he should not get any of the benefits of of being that so take away
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that I do think he does need to be charged with something because I don't mind setting
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the precedent to to individuals going forward that sign up for this let's face it this very dangerous job but I don't
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mind setting a precedent to to weed I think what it does is it weeds out these types from going into that occupation no
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I I understand what you're where you're coming from but I I don't know if he if he should get seven charges um I I don't
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think he should get any cuz one he he didn't do anything like you said if if you're and I don't want to speak speak
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out of turn but as far as like with uh you know the Marines or Army like if you do actions or you don't do actions if
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you're supposed to uh do something in a test environment and you're supposed to you know say you're playing capture of
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the flag and you decide that you're just going to hide the whole time and and not
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participate they'll get rid of you and he signed up for a job he he's not fit to do that job
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okay you're done you're not doing that job and whatever benefits that you're supposed to get for signing up to do
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that job you're not you don't get those you're not privileged to get those because you're not you did not do the
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job that's fine as far as criminal charges I have a issue with that because again what did he do that was criminal
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what is the charge coward he's a coward well look he's going to be branded that his whole life and and he deserves so so
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fine be that but the problem I have with setting example for this is you can go back to
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1999 and look at how they responded to Coline and it was not correct and that was the protocol and they have since
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change that protocol but it it was correct according to protocol it's not the best way to handle that situation we
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now know that right and then they changed the protocol M and that changed the way law enfor you know law
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enforcement studied that situation and said what can we do better they did not charge every officer that sat there for
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hours with their you know essentially doing the same thing but in that situation you can't because they're
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obeying orders so to speak because they're following at Coline they were following
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protocol right I understand that but what's this protocol never States once where his
00:20:03
protocol where he didn't follow protocol well from my understanding most jurisdictions if not all of them have
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adopted this new uh protocol to to you you go in and go after the shooter where at Coline the reason the
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why they handled it that way back then was they didn't they didn't understand the nature of that crime and of that
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attack so typically protocol would be that when you have an armed person or persons in a building or structure and
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essentially they they it's a hostage situation is the way they treated it and the protocol then was to you start
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communicating with the hostage taker and you're trying to talk them down and what they've really realized
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and learned and and we have as well that in these school shooting situations especially in the school shooting
00:21:06
situations it's it is not a hostage situation so therefore you have to handle it differently it's it's
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basically someone going in there with the they don't want to take any hostages they're attempting to shoot as many
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people as as as they desire and therefore you have to go become the aggressor and go after the
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shooter because they're not there to take hostages I get what you're saying he he's done nothing different than than
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how we used to handle this situation with the exception of when his brothers in blue his sisters and blue
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showed up to the scene he still remained in hiding um he he should have at the very
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least joined them um but I I don't know I right but again my issue is that we can't measure
00:22:09
this officer's fear we can't um measure what Terror was going through his brain what trauma happened to him as a
00:22:19
kid that there's so many things that could play into this where maybe if it was on a Tuesday and he had a little
00:22:28
more coffee it would be different or if he was in a different state of mind when
00:22:35
it happened it could be different it to me it seems like this individual was struck by fear and Terror
00:22:45
and that enabled him to do his job and yes that makes you unfit to continue to ever do that job but it's
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hard to measure that and it's hard to know like I said we don't know if if it happened on a different time or and it
00:23:04
would be different to me if he did oh other officers are here then he Springs into
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action he didn't he continued to hide and again to me it's like to me that's more signs that this overwhelming fear
00:23:20
took him over and made him enable to do almost anything so and I think it would be
00:23:29
different if he not only did he hide but once the other police officers got there
00:23:33
he that he took off that he ran away yeah I I think it really shows that he was enabled uh to do
00:23:41
anything and it's like look the guy's going to be called a coward rightfully so you know uh but I I really just don't
00:23:53
see it's inactive he's inactive so therefore he he's responsible and and the other
00:24:00
thing too is it's it's really has changed um kind of the narrative more people seem upset about this police
00:24:09
officer the good guy with a gun because we believe a good guy with a gun will stop a bad guy with a
00:24:16
gun but this officer did not go into a school and shoot anybody correct correct and and that's that's the real piece of
00:24:25
[ __ ] here well of course and and and so I I don't know it it I I see both sides I mean I could see but and I think
00:24:34
the difference too is when you go okay well he might be hit with seven felony accounts okay what does that mean time
00:24:42
served what does it mean what does he get for that what's the outcome of that and and when I'm looking through some of
00:24:50
these reports about it it's not really clear I haven't really been able to find where it says that he's facing up to
00:24:58
10 years in prison or I thought I saw 70 70 years um and that's and that's just ridiculous because because we don't know
00:25:09
you don't know how you would react you can sit there but we're paying him to react a certain way that's the
00:25:16
difference between between a civilian and an officer and no I understand that but the but where it
00:25:22
becomes where it becomes a little convoluted is what if that officer has a heart attack what if that officer has
00:25:29
anxiety attack what if that officer has some kind of whatever it is you know I I I don't know I don't know I because I
00:25:48
think I just think there that's a blurry line and and we don't know how you would
00:25:54
react we don't know how I'd react we don't know how any of these officers that have never been through that we do
00:26:01
not know how they would react we would like to think we would know and maybe this
00:26:08
guy maybe the coward of Boward thought he would react differently you know and I'd like to see
00:26:16
what his record was before you know I know for example at my high school we had a cop and the reason why he
00:26:26
became the cop at the high school was because he was continuously the last one to arrive at
00:26:35
any scene so but that is again that's before that's you know 96 97 98 this is before the national awareness of of
00:26:52
these what possibly horrible things can happen out of school I wonder today would they put that same officer at that
00:27:02
high school well that knowing that he had an inability he would be the closest to a scene and get there last you know
00:27:09
but I I think that too is part of part of the issue that needs to be examined yeah was this officer there as more of a
00:27:17
punishment rather than a a post right and but but but then does that become his problem or does that become the
00:27:25
higher Up's problem it should it it's both of their problems right but should they be charged with 70 years for
00:27:32
putting the wrong guy at the wrong position but here's here's where America you know a lot of people react to the
00:27:39
headlines and you got to read the story because being charged with seven felony counts and facing up to 70 years in
00:27:48
prison we need to know the details of those charges because most of the time we charge somebody with with several
00:27:56
counts of something that could if convicted on all of all seven accounts would would end up 70 years in prison
00:28:05
but the way that that's typically structured is that you can't be guilty of several of those other charges if
00:28:13
you're guilty of some of those charges yeah meaning that there's varying degrees of the same charge so in this
00:28:20
situation I think what what's very likely to happen would probably have a situation where he'll he'll get
00:28:28
convicted of one of these charges and that may only carry 3 to 5 years of of probation it may carry a a light um
00:28:40
prison sentence I again though I'm I'm for I'm for setting the precedent of of holding individuals accountable for what
00:28:50
they are paid to do what they how they are paid to react to a situation and Obey protocol now regarding what you
00:28:59
said about the the police department and and I actually I think you're probably right in this situation I bet you this
00:29:07
was was not considered by his his you know co-workers to be a great cop and he may have been posted there more as a
00:29:17
punishment rather than um anything else and and I I know of of like you said with our high school that it was kind of
00:29:25
give give the guy that really nobody nobody really trust him in the field to do the right thing or or to have their
00:29:33
back so a treny cop let's just put them at at the school I would like to see you
00:29:39
know and I know that some jurisdictions some police departments do that with the
00:29:43
bicycle cops as well I've I've heard from it's not a rule it's not on any books but if you talk to talk to some of
00:29:52
the guys they'll tell you yeah you you get bicycle Patrol in in this department you get b b bicycle Patrol as a as a
00:29:59
punishment so you know well yeah they could put me on a bike and I'd still be the first one there but the
00:30:06
um I I I'm am more of a fan I I am a fan of having some type of law enforcement or security at these schools I think it
00:30:16
only makes sense it makes so much sense that it's stupid not to do it I think a better a person better suited for this
00:30:24
situation may be exmilitary um because we're we're really talking about a situation well this is like a
00:30:34
oneman SWAT unit is basically what it is if you put one cop out of school and a shooting breaks out MH how many
00:30:47
shooters that's the that's the other thing is this is hindsight we know that there's one shooter well again at the
00:30:53
Coline they thought there was possibly five Shooters they don't go in they later find out that there's not five
00:30:59
shooters or or a group of Shooters there's a a big group of Shooters there's two right so then they go oh
00:31:06
well we made this mistake we go in Faster how does he know how many shooters there are right but and so then
00:31:12
you want a what if a police officer goes in and there is five Shooters no I I understand the situation
00:31:20
but that I'm not the one writing the protocol I'm just saying he didn't follow protocol and that's that is the
00:31:27
essentially the the problem and the issue here I'm not I don't even go as far to fault him for not going after the
00:31:35
shooter I fought I fult him for you know the job is protect and serve in this situation serving would be going after
00:31:43
the shooter protecting would have been to help evacuate people out of there or or to add some kind of assistance to get
00:31:52
people out of there faster away from the shooter if you're too chicken [ __ ] to go
00:31:55
after the shooter at least have the stones to to try to help some of these children get out of out of the building
00:32:04
and and he did nothing he he he crawled under a rock and and stayed there and which I understand but then again the
00:32:12
question to me then goes back to it did did he get struck with something that was out of his control right but that's
00:32:19
that's where the court system comes in he's he will have the opportunity to State his case and to defend
00:32:26
himself yeah and what they're saying is look I I have no I understand the idea that you make an
00:32:33
example out of somebody but I think this is very this is a lot more complex than
00:32:39
people think it's not just as oh it's incredibly comp complex I I don't and I and I think you
00:32:47
know we have to be careful um about this but there there has never been a police officer that has
00:32:56
been prosecuted for their actions involving an active shooter but Le but the legal experts say it's
00:33:03
unlikely um that he'll be convicted on most of the charges right right and I agree with that like I said I think
00:33:10
he'll end up getting convicted of one of these lesser charges with a with a slap
00:33:16
on the wrist so to speak but but it I mean it goes to me it's no different than than a pilot showing up to fly the
00:33:25
plane and he's intoxicated or hung over from the night before or you know th those that warrants charges in my mind
00:33:32
or or a doctor that you know commits malpractice people need to be right right but the but what they're saying
00:33:42
and I and I actually agree with them they're saying that just him being arrested shows that hey if you're an
00:33:50
officer right that you know and that's all I'm saying we can't give this guy 70 years to make him a example moving
00:33:59
forward the arrest starts with making him an example maybe there's probation loss of a job whatever but he is not the
00:34:09
scumbag that went in there and started shooting people he's the coward and again we don't know nobody can say for
00:34:18
certain I don't even think the coward of Boward could say for certain that if it
00:34:22
didn't happen two hours later or 2 hours before or a day later later you know what I mean but I don't even know what
00:34:31
that means because that's like saying it's like saying oh Nick you robbed a you know I robbed a bank because I was
00:34:37
broke but but if I wasn't broke or no no no what no that you're I think you're misunderstanding we don't know for sir
00:34:48
we don't know for certain if his inactiveness was was something that was voluntary
00:34:57
that he chose to do or he was in or was he enabled to do right and that's why you charge him and then he has the
00:35:05
chance to defend himself and state his case in court right I I get that but and and also I I want to be clear you know I
00:35:14
don't I don't like reacting to the headlines I don't think that there is a possibility that he could face 70 years
00:35:21
in prison that's that's just the headlines that's to get people in and get people
00:35:27
talking get people discussing the issue it's again it's very likely that it's structured so that it's
00:35:36
impossible to be convicted of all seven well right meaning if you're guilty of B
00:35:41
you cannot be guilty of A and C as well because it because it's set up that way right and this is why I think it's so
00:35:47
gray is if you're a pilot that got drunk the night before that was your action well his action's running and hiding it
00:35:56
it's right but it's not it's not like he no the reason why that's gray is I I question if that is a choice or his body
00:36:07
choosing that for him and that's where I think it's gray I think it's different when you decide to stay up at night
00:36:15
drinking or you just you go to the job with a drink I [Music] think that there's a big difference
00:36:23
between that and I I don't know if what he was doing was voluntary or involuntary
00:36:32
[Music] [Applause]